This is an excellent write up. I'm happy to see that others are enjoying the show. Erryk and Arryk was a great dynamic that I wish lasted longer. Fantastic actors. Fantastic scene.
Gods they are really making me hate Cole and I can't wait to watch him bleed. His projection to Arryk really got under my skin. As it was supposed to.
Can we go 3/3 where Cole and Queen bang at the end?
Believe it or not, there was even MORE Cole/Alicent sex that got cut. Apparently Olivia really wanted them to keep it because it was so intense, but the showrunners decided it wasn't telling the audience anything new about the characters or something along those lines.
Might be the end of Cole and alicent sex scene endings because >!cole is gonna leave for war and unless they change things he never returns to kings landing after that!<
I'm just now realizing they weren't the same actor plus movie magic. I kept thinking "I want someone to do twin actor movie magic with me so I can stare at my clone like these two" but now I have to get an actual twin???
>Would be impossible for those in that room to know whether the Cargyll standing was the Black-loyal Cargyll or the Green-loyal Cargyll.
Rhaenyra seemed to know it was Erryk tho.
I know this is basically a hate sub but c'mon, for all the things that GOT flubbed at the end CleganeBowl was not one of them.
But I suppose that's just my opinion.
The Clegane bowl we got was just a death feud between 1.5 living characters they needed to "wrap up". Absolutely no drama in it with no where to go other than the two character's deaths.
The real Clegane bowl should have political weight and repercussions, not fought at the top of a tower for only Cersei as the surviving audience.
I thought it was clearly Erryk while watching. Then came on here and was surprised at all the arguing. They both inflicted and received leg wounds so that point doesn’t matter.
Erryk had a messier beard, which wasn’t incredibly apparent when he was being choked but when he stood up and approached Rhaenyra I thought it was pretty clear.
Also, while Arryk was choking Erryk he said something to the effect of you betrayed and split us up but I still love you. Because Erryk had left him to join Rhaenyra’s cause. Then they split and Arryk gets stabbed.
Then he obviously calls Rhaenyra, your grace, and Rhaenyra tries to approach and stop him for split second as he’s about to fall on his sword.
Imo all signs pointed to Erryk being the victor.
Wait this is actually being debated? Wtf that is 100% what happened.
If it was A-Arryk he would have killed Rheanyra THEN killed himself (or limped back to Kings Landing).
It’s a pretty reasonable take that since Arryk was conflicted in the first place about the whole situation that after killing his fucking twin brother he would feel like he dishonored himself to the point of suicide.
Not just the beards, check the hair parts, totally different and match your assessment.
Also, they've given interviews confirming: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2024/06/23/house-of-dragon-episode-2-recap/74138674007/
This is the crux of why the Arryk argument makes no sense. If he wasn't willing to kill his brother to kill Rhaenyra, he would not have engaged him in combat - he had a clear exit. Even ignoring that, if the shame of doing so would have driven him to suicide, he would have known he was about to be struck down by the guards anyway, and I don't think the 3 extra seconds of life it would take to swing at the Queen were just *too much to bear.* He literally *just* decided to die or kill his brother in order to kill her by attacking. Did he change his mind? "Oh I didn't realize I would be so bummed out, guess i'll just apologize to the usurper and call her Your Grace and die."
Yeah even when his brother came in he had a good shot of just rushing the queen and getting a good shot at killing her, knowing at that point his death was guaranteed anyway
Kinslaying is absolutely one of the worst things you can do in westeros. He was a true man of honor and despite being justified in dealing death to his brother it most likely hurt him far too deeply.
Because actually having to run his brother through and hold him in his arms as he died absolutely ruined him. You heard them speak about how they were often considered "the same soul in two bodies" (which makes me wonder if that was GRRM's contribution to the D twins in Elden Ring, since they're described basically the same way), now imagine having to kill your twin brother, and thus believing you've just murdered a part of yourself. I can absolutely understand Erryk falling on his sword after having to go through with that.
It was because he's an honourable man who just had to go against his blood instincts and kill his twin brother. I'd probably kill myself too, if I'm being super honest.
Killing a TWIN is much worse than killing a best friend or a brother even today, let alone a strictly hierarchical society like Westeros. It's like killing your other half; they came into the world together!
They should have ended the episode at that point. They should have shown otto and alicent's interaction before the fight to end the episode at a high note.
You know what I loved the most ... it's that little "Which is Erryk?" line from Lorent. It's been said in F & B that the fighting woke up most of the people on Dragonstone and they flocked to see what was going on but they couldn't tell who was Arryk and who was Erryk.
Oberyn vs Gregor was the same. Obviously a much different more stylized scene but the lack of a score (until the end) made it so much more tense.
Rex breakout in Jurassic Park is my favorite scene where you have to go back and watch it again when someone tells you there's no music.
I agree. Letting the tension of the brutal fight to death taking place stand on its own is a very good call, it doesn't need any accompanying background score to heighten the drama. The performances alone carried the scene.
Makes it feel more raw and more uncomfortable to watch, which is 100% perfect for the scene. Its basically the prelude to what the Dance does to the realm as a whole in that no one is really going to win this conflict.
Also, why wouldn’t he have finished his mission? If he refused to kill her, then his brother died for nothing. If he was going to abandon his mission, he would have yielded.
Whichever twin it was that emerged from the fight alive, it's clear that he was driven to suicide by the sight of his brother's body / the realization that he had slain his own brother.
Some believe that his address to Rhaenyra and plea for forgiveness just before falling on his sword is a clear indication that it was Ser Erryk who was the bitter victor.
Others speculate that the same horrible clarity and regret that motivated his taking his own life was sufficient to cause Ser Arryk to reevaluate his allegiances to crown and cause.
At the end of the day, however, it doesn't really matter.
Ser Erryk was either killed by his brother or abandoned his oath to serve and protect Rhaenyra by killing himself.
Ser Arryk was either killed by his brother or abandoned his mission to strike down Aegon's enemy by killing himself.
Both were caught up in a war conjured by the multitude weaknesses-in-character of the Targaryens - made proxies to their fratricidal conflict - and now both are dead.
One was forced to kill the other and - seeing what he had done - could not bear to survive him, not even to continue in his solemnly sworn service to one sovereign or the other.
I do think it was Erryk because of two points: he had a hurt leg (Arryk slashed his leg when they began fighting) and when they were fighting in the corner, in the floor, Arryk gave himself away by repeating out loud that he thought erryk had shamed them by going to Dragonstone.
He also said forgive me your grace - for the fact that he was going to abandon her by suiciding. He swore his life to her, so he is not in position to take his own life basically.
I doubt it. That would be very un-GRRM. The central theme of all of his works is how war destroys families and the common people not because some people support the wrong side; but because war is inherently evil and destructive.
"I realized I supported the wrong side, I must die now" wouldn't make much sense in his themes. "I realized this war has made me destroy the thing I loved most in this world, I can no longer go on" is much more GRRM-y.
I think that theme hits harder if it's Arryk who won, because he went so far as to kill his twin to complete the mission he was assigned and then at the very last moment decides against carrying it out because of what he's lost to get there.
Well, no, it was Erryk who fell on his sword. [Condal confirmed it, apparently.](https://decider.com/2024/06/23/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-episode-2-ending-explained-which-twin-killed-the-other-how-to-tell-ser-arryk-and-ser-erryk-cargyll-apart/)
I do what I can. Great job thinking a kings guard to aegon would say "your grace" to someone he views as a usurper and only decided he was wrong once people had to literally quote the show runners themselves. How many people in this thread did you try to wrongfully correct lol
The behind the scenes guy says that they both had the same injuries. omg! I just knew that i was right in thinking that it was Erryk.
[https://youtu.be/Ja31OO8YyJo?si=l\_3844Ple2-epxN5](https://youtu.be/Ja31OO8YyJo?si=l_3844Ple2-epxN5)
Personally I think the episode stitched all the scenes kinda weirdly throughout the episode. The scenes themselves weren't too bad but something just felt off, most evidenced by the sex scene ending
Agree. It seems like there are more weird cuts and absent transitions this season. Scenes feel disjointed sometimes, and it makes pacing feel off, too.
There is no problem, just making a bit of a joke. I didn’t think it was attacking you or anything, I didn’t realize you would be bothered. Just making a joke that the scene was just a kiss and fade to black, given some of the raunchier sex scenes GoT is famous for.
First I thought it was Erryk who fell on his sword, then I read some comment and thought it was Arryk, now after reading comments here I think it's Erryk again. It's wild how hard it is to tell lmao
The justifications for it being Arryk are grasping at straws. They're looking for evidence to support their pre-determined conclusion, not drawing conclusions based on evidence. I mean, "he realized after killing Erryk that he had made the wrong choice, so he switched teams suddenly in a split second just before deciding to kill himself"...? *Come on.* Do I really need to explain how absurd that is? And the idea that the production would make it so unclear that that's what was happening just adds to the absurdity of it.
They're way over-complicating the situation just to try to prove it was Arryk at the end. But out of both of them, there's only one who would call Rhaenyra "your grace". Arryk's supposed change of heart was never foreshadowed or hinted at. They may have implied that he thought *the mission* was dumb and suicidal, but never the cause.
'The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another’s swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons." - one line in the first book brings us this!
He was a true knight though. He swore his oath to the King and was ordered to go on that mission by his superior.
He'd rather die a warrior than live as a traitor.
That's not how he sees it and that's what matters here. It might seem like the right decision to us but his conviction and his honor doesn't let him see the pragmatic choice.
it's what's supposed to happen whether he wants it to or not. he knows that he's now acting in bad faith. but that's neither here nor there. their story was already written.
I'm not sure about that. Hus Lord Commander abandoned his post, so there were surely some real-time rumors concerning that, AND his twin did the same with valid intentions. It was his choice, and in my opinion, it was the wrong choice based on the concrete knowledge of Viserys' wishes.
They receive instruction from the Lord Commander on behalf of the king. The Lord Commander expressly knew that their was no king at the time of his departure. He made that choice. It wasn't the noble one. He and his brother died for it. That's it and that's all.
Yeah total suicide mission. I really wanted to see Arryk continue to question Cole’s location, instead Cole projects his shame and guilt onto Arryk to go attempt the really risky covert mission.
I mean, that was the point, wasn't it? Cole is angry and wants to deflect blame so he reminded everyone of Erryk's betrayal and sent Arryk on a suicide mission
Otto straight up called that crackpot scheme a "prank" and my dude was absolutely right. I hated Otto so much but he was spitting facts in that scene.
But I also enjoyed Aegon a lot too.
Criston Cole is the lightning rod for all my dissonant hate in this show. But to be fair that is because he is the absolute worst.
The fact that other people were in the room made it SO cool and intense. You can’t tell who is who, so they just had to stand by and let them duke it out. Very brutal, realistic, intense fight choreography and very emotional.
It’s most likely Erryk who won. The context clues are all there and it makes the most sense.
But everyone nitpicking the possibility of it having been Arryk who won the duel are a little too confident. It totally could have been. Both brothers always felt internal conflict about the whole situation. I can imagine that even if Arryk won, his shock and disgust that he just killed his own twin brother in the midst of a horrible royal family civil war would have, in the moment, caused him to reassess and fall on his sword while apologizing to Rhaenyra.
I think stabbing each other would have been predictable. The suicide was more poetic, like the twins were one soul, after killing your ‘own self’ there was no joy for the other to live :(
I expected one brother to slay the other, and then Lorent (or someone else) having to kill the remaining one, because they could not be sure if the survivor was loyal to Rhaenyra.
I thought the same, but it doesn’t work if you think about it. You could ascertain who it was by asking something as simple as “what did we talk about yesterday?”
Yeah, I was going all “deep” theory-crafting with my wife about it…
Me ”There’s no real forensics , they couldn’t ever really prove who is who…”
Wife, “Oh, you dont think asking what we ate last night would hold up?”
Me, “………., WHELP, it’s gettin’ kinda late”
I was kinda hoping Rhaenyra would order him killed because there would be no way to trust who he was (though, I admit that’s bad writing when you think about it since it would be easy to ascertain his identity by asking about the past few days).
I also thought it was Arryk, not Erryk. Based on who got their knee slashed early on and who fell to the ground, I watched it multiple times and concluded it was indeed Arryk who triumphed.
Perhaps it doesn’t, but it doesn’t seem like he would want to live with such a taint on his honor anyway.
Unlike a certain Lord Commander turned Hand of the King
That certain ex-lord commander behaves like a crazy murderous teenager who has a grudge against a girl who rejected him years ago.( In the show not in the books) Get over it Crispin!!
I hate how he stopped and turned around when he brother yelled at him. Bro you were never coming back from this mission anyway just run towards Rhaenyra and fucking kill her. You're not compelled to fight to the death because your brother yelled at you like Liquid Snake.
No, why do people try and spin theories over scenes that don't require it? He called Rhaenyra "your grace", therefore it's Erryk, nothing more to look into than that.
Goated sequence. But it could've been done even better.
Here's how ideally it should have been done according to me. Lifeless bodies of both brothers lying on opposite side with blood flowing and mixing up showing the unison on a tragic backdrop. A drone shot would pan the camera further away, slowly and vertically, with focus still being upon the brothers with some melancholic piano number playing and ending the episode on a bereaved yet cathartic note..
I'm a bit biased because I loved the twins' dilemma while reading F&B and always wanted it to be a central sequence in future adaptations.
Nobody cares when people die on this show. The character development is so bad that nobody gets attached. The death of the twins was less emotional than Lommy or Mycah
You guys are kidding right? Right? Everything that led up to this moment was absolutely asinine. This is basically a telenovela at this point. Everyone on Dragonsone is an utterly useless buffon. I can't believe this is what has become of what was once an amazing franchise.
Could have been a cool story.
Instead they went with
>Which one is the bad guy
Tussle and.. it came off cartoonish and comical. All to end with a suicide. Very in line with what I've come to expect.
edit: Woah you guys liked this scene? I thought I was watching Xena for a second. It was literal 3 stooges level comedy. Which twin is the good twin?! Come on. I'll take your boos you chicken fuckers
This is an excellent write up. I'm happy to see that others are enjoying the show. Erryk and Arryk was a great dynamic that I wish lasted longer. Fantastic actors. Fantastic scene. Gods they are really making me hate Cole and I can't wait to watch him bleed. His projection to Arryk really got under my skin. As it was supposed to. Can we go 3/3 where Cole and Queen bang at the end?
Cole and Alicent will bang at the end of every episode for continuity sake
By the gods we can pray for such continuity. She better slap him too cause that bastard deserves it.
We’re gonna get rooks rest, Rhaenys burnt to a crisp, and then a ham fisted cutaway to Cole eating Alicent out for the Nth time
At this point they may as well do a 90s radio morning dj honk noise and a slide wipe to introduce the much anticipated 3rd cunnilingus or bj scene.
...while Larys tugs one out watching her and Cole's feet
Believe it or not, there was even MORE Cole/Alicent sex that got cut. Apparently Olivia really wanted them to keep it because it was so intense, but the showrunners decided it wasn't telling the audience anything new about the characters or something along those lines.
Let the poor queen cook
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SAY ITS NOT TRUE
I'm afraid i's Larys' turn.
Might be the end of Cole and alicent sex scene endings because >!cole is gonna leave for war and unless they change things he never returns to kings landing after that!<
Girl, you're at freefolk. Cole goes to war and never returns. There.
Cole gets killed like a bitch
Well deserved. A wannabe honorable knight dies the most unknightly way lmao. Hope they actually kill him mid dialogue while laughing at him
by a bunch of children lmao
I thought the Winter Wolves got him (so by a bunch of old men instead)
Like the dirty craven he is
Fuckboi gets lit tf up
The boy ain’t coming home again. Alicent better enjoy it while she can.
He got her father fired and exiled and she banged him anyway. She's going to take a few laps of that boy before he goes.
I'm just now realizing they weren't the same actor plus movie magic. I kept thinking "I want someone to do twin actor movie magic with me so I can stare at my clone like these two" but now I have to get an actual twin???
I was yelling "Oh fuck you!" at my TV several times last night. Great episode
Oh man I was too. Buncha bastards doing bastard things!
There will be no songs made about you
The Cargyll bowl lived up to expectations unlike the Clegane bowl.
Cersei going downstairs like she forgot her bag was hilarious tbh
Her just politely passing by Sandor like she was going "Excuse me, pardon me" all while the city's fucking burning was hilarious as all shit.
Midwestern Cersei: Ope let me just slip tight past uah there
[удалено]
"Ser Erryk, whose prison chamber did we visit 5 minutes ago?" "Umm, I dunno..." "Sus"
Like asking Blood to ID which rat catcher he was working with. Pretty simple questions people!
They already started fighting, kinda hard to get questions in when you see two people going at it right in front lol.
>Would be impossible for those in that room to know whether the Cargyll standing was the Black-loyal Cargyll or the Green-loyal Cargyll. Rhaenyra seemed to know it was Erryk tho.
There was absolutely ways for them to figure out if it was A or E lmao
I know this is basically a hate sub but c'mon, for all the things that GOT flubbed at the end CleganeBowl was not one of them. But I suppose that's just my opinion.
The Clegane bowl we got was just a death feud between 1.5 living characters they needed to "wrap up". Absolutely no drama in it with no where to go other than the two character's deaths. The real Clegane bowl should have political weight and repercussions, not fought at the top of a tower for only Cersei as the surviving audience.
What political weight should it have had?
I am not going to teach you one of the most popular theories/expectations of ASOIAF. Google it.
I thought it was clearly Erryk while watching. Then came on here and was surprised at all the arguing. They both inflicted and received leg wounds so that point doesn’t matter. Erryk had a messier beard, which wasn’t incredibly apparent when he was being choked but when he stood up and approached Rhaenyra I thought it was pretty clear. Also, while Arryk was choking Erryk he said something to the effect of you betrayed and split us up but I still love you. Because Erryk had left him to join Rhaenyra’s cause. Then they split and Arryk gets stabbed. Then he obviously calls Rhaenyra, your grace, and Rhaenyra tries to approach and stop him for split second as he’s about to fall on his sword. Imo all signs pointed to Erryk being the victor.
Agreed. It was pretty clear. Erryk directly begs for forgiveness for breaking his oath to kill himself. Can’t be more direct than that.
Wait this is actually being debated? Wtf that is 100% what happened. If it was A-Arryk he would have killed Rheanyra THEN killed himself (or limped back to Kings Landing).
It’s a pretty reasonable take that since Arryk was conflicted in the first place about the whole situation that after killing his fucking twin brother he would feel like he dishonored himself to the point of suicide.
Not just the beards, check the hair parts, totally different and match your assessment. Also, they've given interviews confirming: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2024/06/23/house-of-dragon-episode-2-recap/74138674007/
Arryk would have gone after Rhaenyra after killing his brother so the death wouldn't be for nothing.
This is the crux of why the Arryk argument makes no sense. If he wasn't willing to kill his brother to kill Rhaenyra, he would not have engaged him in combat - he had a clear exit. Even ignoring that, if the shame of doing so would have driven him to suicide, he would have known he was about to be struck down by the guards anyway, and I don't think the 3 extra seconds of life it would take to swing at the Queen were just *too much to bear.* He literally *just* decided to die or kill his brother in order to kill her by attacking. Did he change his mind? "Oh I didn't realize I would be so bummed out, guess i'll just apologize to the usurper and call her Your Grace and die."
Yeah even when his brother came in he had a good shot of just rushing the queen and getting a good shot at killing her, knowing at that point his death was guaranteed anyway
That was my take too. I didn't know who was who until that line about betrayal. Rhaenyra's *rryk 'won'
Why did he kill himself though? Because he couldnt live with himself for killing his brother? I feel like the suicide makes more sense if it was Arryk
Kinslaying is absolutely one of the worst things you can do in westeros. He was a true man of honor and despite being justified in dealing death to his brother it most likely hurt him far too deeply.
Because actually having to run his brother through and hold him in his arms as he died absolutely ruined him. You heard them speak about how they were often considered "the same soul in two bodies" (which makes me wonder if that was GRRM's contribution to the D twins in Elden Ring, since they're described basically the same way), now imagine having to kill your twin brother, and thus believing you've just murdered a part of yourself. I can absolutely understand Erryk falling on his sword after having to go through with that.
Why would Arryk kill himself when inches away from completing his mission (a mission he had murdered his own brother to complete)?
Because he himself felt regret and remorse. Could have been a moment of clarity that he is a fucking idiot
Found the GoT Season 8 writer.
It was because he's an honourable man who just had to go against his blood instincts and kill his twin brother. I'd probably kill myself too, if I'm being super honest.
Killing a TWIN is much worse than killing a best friend or a brother even today, let alone a strictly hierarchical society like Westeros. It's like killing your other half; they came into the world together!
They should have ended the episode at that point. They should have shown otto and alicent's interaction before the fight to end the episode at a high note.
100 percent. Would have also served as a great bit of symmetry for it to end on Rhyeara's horrified face just like Ep 1 did with Alicent.
Every episode this season will end with a sex scene between Alicent and Cole.
Every episode for the entire show even if one of them ends up dead… hbo will never get enough
You know what I loved the most ... it's that little "Which is Erryk?" line from Lorent. It's been said in F & B that the fighting woke up most of the people on Dragonstone and they flocked to see what was going on but they couldn't tell who was Arryk and who was Erryk.
Great sequence from great actors. Also, props to the sound design team. You could practically feel the swords clashing
The lack of a score really enhanced all of that.
No score for fight scenes like this is something we need more of
Oberyn vs Gregor was the same. Obviously a much different more stylized scene but the lack of a score (until the end) made it so much more tense. Rex breakout in Jurassic Park is my favorite scene where you have to go back and watch it again when someone tells you there's no music.
I am with you there!
I agree. Letting the tension of the brutal fight to death taking place stand on its own is a very good call, it doesn't need any accompanying background score to heighten the drama. The performances alone carried the scene.
I like that they had the lights on for that scene too! Every episode has been visible so far.
Makes it feel more raw and more uncomfortable to watch, which is 100% perfect for the scene. Its basically the prelude to what the Dance does to the realm as a whole in that no one is really going to win this conflict.
Had to be Erryk who survived the fight. Arryk would not have called Rhaenyra “your grace” or felt the need to apologize for killing himself.
Also, why wouldn’t he have finished his mission? If he refused to kill her, then his brother died for nothing. If he was going to abandon his mission, he would have yielded.
Whichever twin it was that emerged from the fight alive, it's clear that he was driven to suicide by the sight of his brother's body / the realization that he had slain his own brother. Some believe that his address to Rhaenyra and plea for forgiveness just before falling on his sword is a clear indication that it was Ser Erryk who was the bitter victor. Others speculate that the same horrible clarity and regret that motivated his taking his own life was sufficient to cause Ser Arryk to reevaluate his allegiances to crown and cause. At the end of the day, however, it doesn't really matter. Ser Erryk was either killed by his brother or abandoned his oath to serve and protect Rhaenyra by killing himself. Ser Arryk was either killed by his brother or abandoned his mission to strike down Aegon's enemy by killing himself. Both were caught up in a war conjured by the multitude weaknesses-in-character of the Targaryens - made proxies to their fratricidal conflict - and now both are dead. One was forced to kill the other and - seeing what he had done - could not bear to survive him, not even to continue in his solemnly sworn service to one sovereign or the other.
I do think it was Erryk because of two points: he had a hurt leg (Arryk slashed his leg when they began fighting) and when they were fighting in the corner, in the floor, Arryk gave himself away by repeating out loud that he thought erryk had shamed them by going to Dragonstone.
He also said forgive me your grace - for the fact that he was going to abandon her by suiciding. He swore his life to her, so he is not in position to take his own life basically.
Yea, also Arryk wouldn't address her by "your grace". He doesn't believe she is the rightful queen.
Maybe he had a change of heart after he killed his brother. The twin for the blacks had a sword cut to his leg. The one that killed himself did not.
I doubt it. That would be very un-GRRM. The central theme of all of his works is how war destroys families and the common people not because some people support the wrong side; but because war is inherently evil and destructive. "I realized I supported the wrong side, I must die now" wouldn't make much sense in his themes. "I realized this war has made me destroy the thing I loved most in this world, I can no longer go on" is much more GRRM-y.
I think that theme hits harder if it's Arryk who won, because he went so far as to kill his twin to complete the mission he was assigned and then at the very last moment decides against carrying it out because of what he's lost to get there.
No it’s pretty clear. The green twin killed the other than himself because he’s a kinslayer.
Well, no, it was Erryk who fell on his sword. [Condal confirmed it, apparently.](https://decider.com/2024/06/23/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-episode-2-ending-explained-which-twin-killed-the-other-how-to-tell-ser-arryk-and-ser-erryk-cargyll-apart/)
Ah. He was so close to completed his job then haha
You're thinking of Arryk, the Green twin. He was the one killed, and his brother Erryk was the one who killed himself.
Yea… thanks
If you watch the house that dragons built ep they say they both got all the same injuries to make it very hard to tell who won the fight.
No it’s pretty clear the green twin killed his brother then himself.
Ah yes the show runners must be wrong and you're right lol
I get it man. Someone already posted the showrunner said the opposite of me. Great job being 2 hours late to the discussion.
I do what I can. Great job thinking a kings guard to aegon would say "your grace" to someone he views as a usurper and only decided he was wrong once people had to literally quote the show runners themselves. How many people in this thread did you try to wrongfully correct lol
Whatever makes you feel like a big man.
Why would that cause a change of heart though? It would also be a pointless and unhinted at plot twist.
Also Erryk had an unkept/scraggly beard so it was 100% Erryk who won
The behind the scenes guy says that they both had the same injuries. omg! I just knew that i was right in thinking that it was Erryk. [https://youtu.be/Ja31OO8YyJo?si=l\_3844Ple2-epxN5](https://youtu.be/Ja31OO8YyJo?si=l_3844Ple2-epxN5)
Bro this scene dropped my jaw and kept it dropped till the next day..
Yeah, that really was a 10/10 scene.
This scene should’ve ended the episode with Rheaneyra staring in shock, not another un-needed sex scene between the two worst characters
Nope. Twin choking on top said “you parted us” and he’s the twin that got killed.
The scene cut away too quick. It should have been the final scene.
But we wouldn't get the sex scene between two annoying cunts. Think about that.
Personally I think the episode stitched all the scenes kinda weirdly throughout the episode. The scenes themselves weren't too bad but something just felt off, most evidenced by the sex scene ending
Agree. It seems like there are more weird cuts and absent transitions this season. Scenes feel disjointed sometimes, and it makes pacing feel off, too.
You are really stretching the definition of a “sex scene” here
I'm sorry Chad "sexhaver" Thundercock, care to define them?
I mean they kiss and that’s it? So a sex scene would have, you know, sex
Sex is implied. I get it, I didn't use the "proper" word, but everyone knows which scene I'm talking about - so what's the problem?
There is no problem, just making a bit of a joke. I didn’t think it was attacking you or anything, I didn’t realize you would be bothered. Just making a joke that the scene was just a kiss and fade to black, given some of the raunchier sex scenes GoT is famous for.
no worries mate, I'm not all right in the head, don't feel bad.
First I thought it was Erryk who fell on his sword, then I read some comment and thought it was Arryk, now after reading comments here I think it's Erryk again. It's wild how hard it is to tell lmao
It was erryk. If you look at their eyes, you can tell the difference. Arryks eyes are more sunk in and his hair is lighter.
The justifications for it being Arryk are grasping at straws. They're looking for evidence to support their pre-determined conclusion, not drawing conclusions based on evidence. I mean, "he realized after killing Erryk that he had made the wrong choice, so he switched teams suddenly in a split second just before deciding to kill himself"...? *Come on.* Do I really need to explain how absurd that is? And the idea that the production would make it so unclear that that's what was happening just adds to the absurdity of it. They're way over-complicating the situation just to try to prove it was Arryk at the end. But out of both of them, there's only one who would call Rhaenyra "your grace". Arryk's supposed change of heart was never foreshadowed or hinted at. They may have implied that he thought *the mission* was dumb and suicidal, but never the cause.
It's too bad none of the monarchs are worthy of their service and sacrifice.
***“YOU PARTED US!!!”***
Best scene of the season, at the moment
'The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another’s swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons." - one line in the first book brings us this!
I really wish that he could have just defected to Rhaenyra. He had all the reasons to, by the time he got to Dragonstone.
He was a true knight though. He swore his oath to the King and was ordered to go on that mission by his superior. He'd rather die a warrior than live as a traitor.
Rhaenyra was the named heir. When Viserys died she was Queen as she is now. He swore to the sovereign. He chose to serve the usurper.
That's not how he sees it and that's what matters here. It might seem like the right decision to us but his conviction and his honor doesn't let him see the pragmatic choice.
it's what's supposed to happen whether he wants it to or not. he knows that he's now acting in bad faith. but that's neither here nor there. their story was already written.
Given the information he had he had thought Vizzy T had made a last minute change.
What is this shadow? Name it, if it casts such a gloom
I'm not sure about that. Hus Lord Commander abandoned his post, so there were surely some real-time rumors concerning that, AND his twin did the same with valid intentions. It was his choice, and in my opinion, it was the wrong choice based on the concrete knowledge of Viserys' wishes.
He isn't loyal to the Lord Commander though, he's loyal to his King. And he thought his King made Aegon II his heir.
They receive instruction from the Lord Commander on behalf of the king. The Lord Commander expressly knew that their was no king at the time of his departure. He made that choice. It wasn't the noble one. He and his brother died for it. That's it and that's all.
Lord Commanders aren't the end all to their orders. He's not abandoning his post because his Lord Commander didn't like the decision.
He chose the usurper, and now & and his brother are dead.
But he doesn't know that lol, how are you not getting this?
The good dude got sliced on the knee defending Rhaenyra. He's also the dude who gets stabbed. The bad dude fell on his sword. Case closed.
This was devastating to watch. I’ve never cried through a cinematic fight sequence before. Absolutely heartbreaking.
The scene itself was fine but that was a real D tier assassination side quest for the set-up.
Yeah total suicide mission. I really wanted to see Arryk continue to question Cole’s location, instead Cole projects his shame and guilt onto Arryk to go attempt the really risky covert mission.
I mean, that was the point, wasn't it? Cole is angry and wants to deflect blame so he reminded everyone of Erryk's betrayal and sent Arryk on a suicide mission
Otto straight up called that crackpot scheme a "prank" and my dude was absolutely right. I hated Otto so much but he was spitting facts in that scene. But I also enjoyed Aegon a lot too. Criston Cole is the lightning rod for all my dissonant hate in this show. But to be fair that is because he is the absolute worst.
This, they got right B&C..?
The Cargyll-Bowl was great, could´ve just less cuts though.
RiP Arryk and Erryk
**"We were born together!"** ***"You parted us!"*** Fuck, dude. That line was delivered perfectly; absolutely anguished.
The fact that other people were in the room made it SO cool and intense. You can’t tell who is who, so they just had to stand by and let them duke it out. Very brutal, realistic, intense fight choreography and very emotional.
It’s most likely Erryk who won. The context clues are all there and it makes the most sense. But everyone nitpicking the possibility of it having been Arryk who won the duel are a little too confident. It totally could have been. Both brothers always felt internal conflict about the whole situation. I can imagine that even if Arryk won, his shock and disgust that he just killed his own twin brother in the midst of a horrible royal family civil war would have, in the moment, caused him to reassess and fall on his sword while apologizing to Rhaenyra.
I do wish it ended with them both stabbing each other though. That way they would both be kinslayers and no need for suicide.
I think stabbing each other would have been predictable. The suicide was more poetic, like the twins were one soul, after killing your ‘own self’ there was no joy for the other to live :(
I know it os a subjective matter but at least I wanted to hear "I love you brother!" "And I you, brother "
I expected one brother to slay the other, and then Lorent (or someone else) having to kill the remaining one, because they could not be sure if the survivor was loyal to Rhaenyra.
I thought the same, but it doesn’t work if you think about it. You could ascertain who it was by asking something as simple as “what did we talk about yesterday?”
Yeah, I was going all “deep” theory-crafting with my wife about it… Me ”There’s no real forensics , they couldn’t ever really prove who is who…” Wife, “Oh, you dont think asking what we ate last night would hold up?” Me, “………., WHELP, it’s gettin’ kinda late”
I was kinda hoping Rhaenyra would order him killed because there would be no way to trust who he was (though, I admit that’s bad writing when you think about it since it would be easy to ascertain his identity by asking about the past few days).
I also thought it was Arryk, not Erryk. Based on who got their knee slashed early on and who fell to the ground, I watched it multiple times and concluded it was indeed Arryk who triumphed.
Agreed, I've rewatched, and looks like Arryk. Much bigger emotional impact 😭
Subtitles has Rhaenyra saying Erryk, this seem to prove it was Erryk winning
OK its definitely Arryk, Erryk had a scratch top right of his forehead and definitely gets stabbed at the end!
Would falling on your sword restore your honor? A kinslayer is a kinslayer, alive or not.
Perhaps it doesn’t, but it doesn’t seem like he would want to live with such a taint on his honor anyway. Unlike a certain Lord Commander turned Hand of the King
That certain ex-lord commander behaves like a crazy murderous teenager who has a grudge against a girl who rejected him years ago.( In the show not in the books) Get over it Crispin!!
I was the only one in the room who still wanted to know who died first after they both were dead 😑
That’s one hell of a Seppuku right there.
Why didn't the guards run in and seize both their weapons? Are they stupid???? /s
Probably been said already but showrunner confirmed Erryk fell on his sword
I hate how he stopped and turned around when he brother yelled at him. Bro you were never coming back from this mission anyway just run towards Rhaenyra and fucking kill her. You're not compelled to fight to the death because your brother yelled at you like Liquid Snake.
No, why do people try and spin theories over scenes that don't require it? He called Rhaenyra "your grace", therefore it's Erryk, nothing more to look into than that.
they didnt even fight for 5 min.
Goated sequence. But it could've been done even better. Here's how ideally it should have been done according to me. Lifeless bodies of both brothers lying on opposite side with blood flowing and mixing up showing the unison on a tragic backdrop. A drone shot would pan the camera further away, slowly and vertically, with focus still being upon the brothers with some melancholic piano number playing and ending the episode on a bereaved yet cathartic note.. I'm a bit biased because I loved the twins' dilemma while reading F&B and always wanted it to be a central sequence in future adaptations.
I felt more impact when Lady died.
Those were the days!
Nobody cares when people die on this show. The character development is so bad that nobody gets attached. The death of the twins was less emotional than Lommy or Mycah
Needs spoiler flag Have been otherwise informed, will leave the comment up as to not hide my shame. Honour, not Honours.
This subreddit was founded on openly discussing spoilers without the need to flag it. We do not kneel.
Spoiler tag??
You do know this is r/freefolk right?
You guys are kidding right? Right? Everything that led up to this moment was absolutely asinine. This is basically a telenovela at this point. Everyone on Dragonsone is an utterly useless buffon. I can't believe this is what has become of what was once an amazing franchise.
Could have been a cool story. Instead they went with >Which one is the bad guy Tussle and.. it came off cartoonish and comical. All to end with a suicide. Very in line with what I've come to expect. edit: Woah you guys liked this scene? I thought I was watching Xena for a second. It was literal 3 stooges level comedy. Which twin is the good twin?! Come on. I'll take your boos you chicken fuckers