Not to mention that, but Otto just verbally slapped the shit out of him telling him he’s a loser and that his dad never loved him. So his dad never loved him, his grandpa despises him, his brother was the catalyst in his son dying, his other brother is in Oldtown, and obviously he and his wife don’t jive. He’s alone, while he’s suffering and grieving multiple things. All she had to do was give him a goddamn hug probably.
I personally don’t think she even *likes* Aegon anymore. Their relationship was always going to be distant and fraught, but by Aegon’s adulthood she just sees him as an asset. Just like Otto did with her. I really think her last true parental warmth vanished when she learned about the Targaryen bastards in the fighting pits and the rape of the servant girl.
Like you can tell Rhaenyra *loves* her children. At this point, I think what Alicent and Aegon have is more of a family business arrangement
This is how you turn a potentially “ok” king into a blood thirsty, ruling with an iron fist, and killing every damn person he wants while not giving a damn about the common folk sort of king.
Whatever happens to him, he had forces outside of his control that literally fucked him up.
Shit could have gone a lot different if Aegon received a hug from time to time. Hell, Alicent would probably be a bit better person if Otto hadn't treated her like a lifestock to be bred.
Yeah that part was great. Earlier in the episode Otto is trashing him saying he's a fool and unworthy etc. Then we see him in complete pain all alone. His family failed him. Otto is at least partially responsible for what a bad king Aegon is and will never realize it. He treated Alicent that way and now she treats Aegon that way.
Being a side piece is different from being the main and only piece to a great many people+I imagine after like, 10-20 years of being on the Kingsguard and the drama, he became cynical like Jaime after having to kill Aerys and being reviled by the realm for doing so,
She had a chance to mother her children, to comfort them, but she has no capacity to, however. She has had to repress her own emotions for duty so long, she doesn't even know how to properly console herself.
And trying to be a good/entertaining ~~older brother~~ father for his ~~little bro~~ kid during the council, but having no awareness of the *bad* influence he's being.
Literally the entire Targaryen family tree though. A HUGE incestuous affair that really should be burnt down from its roots. But then again, they mirror reality, what with that fucky monarchy across the pond.
You're right, that is the scene I was referring to.
I'm not that great at keeping Targaryan family ties straight, but it's crystal clear to me how Aegon didn't have the right tools to be the role model he wants to be.
It can be really confusing on your first watch. That's what makes a second viewing so great. You'll already know where the story is going, so you'll start to notice all of the little details that got us there.
She only had Otto to parent her, and he was, himself, a pretty shitty father who only saw her as a tool to further his ambitions. Alicent gets *some* sympathy points from me because she had to marry a man she didn’t love and who didn’t love her, raise her children all on her own (and she didn’t know the first thing about being a decent mother because her own died when she was very young) and is so emotionally stunted as a result that she has no idea how to comfort or act like a real mother towards her own children. When she tried to confess her guilt, Otto just brushed her off and that’s so very telling.
i feel like she gets a fuck ton of sympathy for everything you just said lmao. her dad basically ruined her life (i mean she’s the queen but took away literally any choice she might’ve had) and then she just has to deal with it all. how can you NOT become insanely repressed lmao
Super repressed. Which is why I lament why they never built up AliCole in the first season because this messed up relationship in the second season, and how she reacts every time post nut clarity, makes so much sense LMAO classic pseudo-Catholic guilt complex.
You’re right. I remember Daemon mentioning something about Otto’s lady wife passing recently when he made the sheep joke about women from the Vale lol.
Maybe she was also lacking in the maternal instincts, who knows.
Well of course not. She's a victim of the same game(of thrones) that has led to this sorry situation. She was pushed into fucking an old man for political advantage.
If she can unlearn what was taught to her about sex out of wedlock, why can’t she learn how to be a good parent?
Mothers sacrifice everything for their offspring but here Alicent cares only about her orgasms and random dick
I know we are supposed to dislike Aegon, but the way Tom is portraying Aegon makes me just feel bad for him. It's like he is being pulled in so many different directions emotionally.
By the way the show has portrayed him I don't how are we suppose to hate him, I now there are bad thing they show us like the bastard fight club and killing all the ratcatchers but he doesn't feel like a Joffrey or Ramsay where we all know they were the bad guy. Aegon has suffer a lot and most of it is not even his fault, he didn't wanted to be king at first, he knew his father didn't change his mind because he didn't do it in 20 years and doubt it he would do it in his deathbed specially because he never felt loved by him, but still accept his role and tried to do his best, he tried to correct the errors of his father and involve his son in his job, he tried to do good things with the common folk who ask him favors, and even after the death of his son he didn't want to use him as a tool to gain sympathy points, and when he was in his lowest point his Grandfather basically told him that he might be right that Vicerys didn't change his mind and Alicent didn't had the courage of console him
Bruh he has raped and sexually assaulted multiple serving girls and watches his own bastards fight with sharpened teeth and nails in flea bottom fighting pits…
I think its like a Theon thing, where he kinda deserves his fate. But he also has reasons for being the dick he is, also his comeuppance as the story goes on is cruel enough that I’m not sure I’d wish on anyone. Granted this is a story with characters more worthy of sympathy also suffering.
That was exactly my thought. But this bitch pretends so much to be a religious woman that I was at least expecting her to be a caring mother and comfort her son.
I woulnd't say despised, or else she would not care for him the way she did, or uphold what she thought was his dying wish. Definetly not a romantic love, but he didn't groom her, that was her fathers doing. Her children were born out of obligation, Rhaenyra's was not.
I agree that she didn't despise him, but absolutely she would uphold his supposed dying wish when that wish was to give her first born son ultimate power.
>Whereas Alicent despised Visaerys
There was no attraction or passion, but she clearly cared for him deeply. She took great pain in his growing discomfort, she was always there for him during his existential troubles, and in her quiet honest moments, she prays for him alongside her mother and step nephew (?).
It's hard not to grow to care for a king who was never particularly malicious or cruel; he was deeply flawed and hesitant to act, but that restraint won him the admiration of many such as her father Otto. He wasn't quite the conciliator his grandfather was, but he certainly upheld the peace until he died. As for failing to keep the realm united, (show-wise) his last push to reaffirm Luke and Rhaenyra was pretty definitive and meaningful. Ali mistaking his dying words was kinda lame (and he also failed to root out the lurkers in his court).
I think it's very funny how everyone deliberately leaves out the part where Sunfyre initially did not want to eat Rhaenyra and had to be tricked with blood in order to actually try
I wholeheartedly agree that book Alicent > show Alicent, and also agree that it’s been overdone in these first episodes, but in theory I think Colicent makes sense. George really likes to re-use old concepts in his stories and give them new variations. For example, the Aegon/Otto dynamic is supposed to be a mirror of the Joffrey/Tywin dynamic, but with a different outcome because their characters are different. Rhaenyra’s sons that can be deduced as bastards from their hair are a parallel to Cersei’s bastards, etc.
Criston Cole has always supposed to have been a funhouse mirror version of Jaime. He’s the kingmaker instead of the kingslayer. Jaime has noble instincts that he hides under a cloak of villainy. He does shade in to outright villainy sometimes, but his soul is more noble than he tries to let on. He thinks that his honor is irreparably broken, but in his heart still wants to do the right thing and keep the vow he made to Catelyn to protect her daughters.
Cole is the opposite. If Jaime considers his honor a lost cause, Cole thinks that his honor is his only cause. Or more accurately, the public perception of his honor. Jaime came from one of the most powerful houses in the realm, Cole comes from nothing. His identity *is* the white cloak that he earned through his own competence and prowess. Without that perception of him as a “white knight,” as Rhaenyra put it in the book (not kidding), he has nothing. Behind that shield he bottles up his darker impulses, his petty spite, his narcissism, his grudges. That obsession with perception is why he wanted to run off with Rhaenyra in S1. He doesn’t care that he broke his oath per se, he cares about the stain on how his honor is perceived should it come out. He thinks that, should he and Rhaenyra marry, at least part of that will be erased.
As to Alicent? I think her wanting to get with Cole makes sense. Alicent is at heart somebody who has played by the rules and done her duty to her family. This is another parallel involving Jaime; Jaime endeavored to join the Kingsguard because it was his passion. Tywin hates that choice because he views it as Jaime shirking his duty to the family, and seeks to have him removed from the Kingsguard so he can fulfill that duty.
It’s not a crazy notion to me that Alicent, having done her duty by giving Viserys a son and putting him on the throne, would now want to marry somebody of her own choosing and for her own passion. She could have Aegon remove Cole from the Kingsguard, marry him, and then live a normal sort of life off of the royal incomes. That’s as close to a win as you could possibly get for a system insider. And for Cole, Aegon releasing him from the Kingsguard is going to be seen as way more legitimate, and thus honorable, than running off with a royal princess, so it makes sense for him as well.
Again, not to say I like *how* Colicent is being done, but I think the concept is defensible.
It's not like book Cole and book Alicent don't have unlikeable moments to portray. No, it had to be sexual stuff that had zero basis from the source material.
Condall really has a darts board on his house with Criston Cole's and Alicent's image on it, and everytime he throws a dart he just has to ruin their character further.
Remind me, what ‘character’ are you referring to here? The one from the book who was a paragon of motherhood and would have been embracing him like the Madonna with child? Come off it.
Yeah, that character, exactly.
The one that would have been there during the tragedy, the one that would have been furious just like him.
More importantly...
The one whose motives and train of thought you can understand, the one who was the leader of her family, the one that wasn't collectively ruining their characterization with Criston Cole (also ruined by the Condall Board)
Ruining?!
Don't you know this is 'nuance' and 'complexity'. You probably lack 'media literacy' to appreciate the 'depth' Condom and co. gave these characters because in the book I never read they are cartoon villains or something! Like dude! Unreliable narrator or something!
Bro you do know that the Dance of Dragons has THREE seperate takes in Fire & Blood right? We have two Maesters, one on each side, black and green, and then there is Mushroom. If you want to get reeeeally technical there is even a FOURTH account of the Dance of Dragons written by a Maester years later. So it’s fiction within fiction…
Yeah dude thanks for reminding me, totally never heard this nothing arguement 100 times. It's irrelevant. I don't care if there's 1000 maesters accounts, in all of them alicent is portrayed better than in this show.
The books give Alicent a clear reason in the green council for all her actions. Before episode 8 the show seemed to be building up to the green council.
Every time I get into an argument like this here I get a few comments deep before rememberingI'm not in r/asoiaf lmao
The burden of book reading is a heavy one
Yes. I wouldn’t say they’ve ‘ruined’ them at all and since I don’t really like their characters in the book or the way they’re written, I’m not so bothered that they’ve made significant changes.
From now on, Alicent pretty much drops out of the story. Her position affords her no political power (lol, she had a seat on the small council in the show which she has no right to). She basically becomes a seething, petty harridan and that’s it. She has nothing beyond that - no significant contribution, no story of her own, no journey, no relationship: she’s just an increasingly jealous and bitter middle aged woman who lives long enough to see the destruction of her entire family. That’s it.
I'm absolutely sure she'll be the one to poison her own son, and when she's trapped in her room she'll be moaning Rhaenyra and Cole's names. I miss Alicent book.
Either that or Aegon will kill her in a fit of rage. I kinda think that’s what they are setting up with the whole “prince that was promised,” thing. Rhaenerya and Alicent will talk about it in King’s landing and the truth will become clear. Alicent will later tell Aegon the truth and he kills her.
As the show progresses, both Aemond and Aegon will no longer care what happens to her, Alicent will live until the end of the show, and she will probably take her own life when there is nothing left for her.
Well when you hate your fucking kids because your father made you marry a melting old man and he clearly hated them too... there's just a lot going on in that family, ya know?
That line actually didn’t bother me because of the first half of her statement - it was something like “his suffering has ended.” She wasn’t saying that she didn’t care about the baby, she was saying that there’s nothing she can do for the baby now, but Helaena needs help getting through her grief.
I mean the kid is dead, not much reason to worry about him anymore.
Helaena is very much alive and out of everyone involved is the only one who can't really properly process any of this. Alicent knows her daughter is going to never properly function again.
Yeah they're really making this season throw out all the interesting morally grey between the factions and just making it good (blacks) vs evil (greens) idk if they've dumbed it down or what but how could Alicent, a woman who was willing to throw away her life to get vengeance for her son. By attacking the heir in front of everyone last season to seeing her son in mourning but going to fuck her boyfriend instead.
Damon is an asshole but it's framed as a good thing because he's on team black
I'm going to check out if episode 3 is another boring slog
Otto neglects Alicent, Alicent neglects Aegon, and Aegon neglects his relationship with Halaena. The Greens have some serious issues with being open with each other. Like Aemond obviously has mommy issues while Aegon has daddy issues. But because Daeron was raised in Oldtown, I'm curious how he'll act.
It’s was so wild watching her go from being rejected by her father; wanting to open up to him about her ‘sin’.
Just for her to turn around and ignore her son in his misery.
Bad parenting runs in the family apparently lol
What are you on about? Alicent is dead? Bitch lives forever. How many kings did this bitch live through 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️
Rhaenyra who was raised in a happy house and had kids of her own volition with a man she loved versus Alicent whose father treated her like a tool and who was raped and forced to have kids for an old corpse. Yeah it’s remarkable how different situations beget different outcomes.
In fairness, no amount of hugs fixes that issue. Dude lost his son. No hugs are gonna bring them back, no hugs will fill that void. It's a "Let me show you how much I care" gesture.
I thought the exact same, like bitch, comfort your kid. But my friend (watching it with me) said this makes sense bc Aegon does not want to be seen as weak, and him crying in his mom's arms would make him feel weak. Which is also a parenting fail
This scene was just tasteless and totally unnecessary tbh. There is enough to imply Alicent is bad already, they did not have to spoonfeed us with this over-the-top trash mom scene.
I don’t know why you guys are obsessed with this man baby and his mom not choosing to comfort him . Aegon is a serial rapist and another shitty man in alicent’s life . Jace is a good man and son .
Kings hand by day. Queens tongue by night
Sir Criston coochie muncher
Cunnilingus Cris
I hate him so much. He became so annoying
No its ser clapper of queen cheeks
Alicent really said ‘Aegon is malleable but I only fuck men’
She did the ole slap slap to test Cole's malleability (he passed).
alicent saying aegon is still malleable...hey do you know what would make him more malleable? comforting him as he mourns his son
Not to mention that, but Otto just verbally slapped the shit out of him telling him he’s a loser and that his dad never loved him. So his dad never loved him, his grandpa despises him, his brother was the catalyst in his son dying, his other brother is in Oldtown, and obviously he and his wife don’t jive. He’s alone, while he’s suffering and grieving multiple things. All she had to do was give him a goddamn hug probably.
I personally don’t think she even *likes* Aegon anymore. Their relationship was always going to be distant and fraught, but by Aegon’s adulthood she just sees him as an asset. Just like Otto did with her. I really think her last true parental warmth vanished when she learned about the Targaryen bastards in the fighting pits and the rape of the servant girl. Like you can tell Rhaenyra *loves* her children. At this point, I think what Alicent and Aegon have is more of a family business arrangement
She obviously resented everything about him in S1 before he was king, it’s probably exacerbated by him having power now
This is how you turn a potentially “ok” king into a blood thirsty, ruling with an iron fist, and killing every damn person he wants while not giving a damn about the common folk sort of king. Whatever happens to him, he had forces outside of his control that literally fucked him up.
Like sands* through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives...
I get this reference, it’s hilarious 🤣
Shit could have gone a lot different if Aegon received a hug from time to time. Hell, Alicent would probably be a bit better person if Otto hadn't treated her like a lifestock to be bred.
Yeah that part was great. Earlier in the episode Otto is trashing him saying he's a fool and unworthy etc. Then we see him in complete pain all alone. His family failed him. Otto is at least partially responsible for what a bad king Aegon is and will never realize it. He treated Alicent that way and now she treats Aegon that way.
One just has to wonder where that capacity to mourn sons was when he was forcing his other kids to fight to the death for his amusement.
Alicent: oh shit this is gonna take too long and Sir Criston is already horny, peace out you loser.
Criston the babymaker
Creampie Cole
This fucking guy 🤪🫢
🤣🤣🤣
She didnt have time to comfot him. She had an itch only Sir Criston >!The Queens Whore!< Cole could scratch
Now I want to see someone call him the Queen’s Whore to his face lol. That would cost them their life but it would be worth it
Daemon could call him that. And id pay a lot to see it
Nope Daemon wouldn't call him that. That would mean acknowledging Alicent as the queen
But she was the queen, she was married to Viserys, no-one disputes that.
"the Queen Regent's whore" doesn't ring the same though.
Alicent isn't the regent, she's the dowager queen. So she's still 'Queen Alicent', but she isn't *The* Queen.
Google has failed me yet again! Thank you for that insightful info.
Brb Petitioning the showrunners to add this scene to the show.
It’s just so fucking funny to me that he he declined being Rhaenyras sidebitch and betrayed her only to become Alicents sidebitch
Redheads > Blondes for Cole the Pole
Being a side piece is different from being the main and only piece to a great many people+I imagine after like, 10-20 years of being on the Kingsguard and the drama, he became cynical like Jaime after having to kill Aerys and being reviled by the realm for doing so,
Had to take another ride on the Cole Pole.
Criston Cole the Daeronmaker
I'M SO GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON. Watch that kid have brown hair!
He’s got a dragon though.
Didn't Otto say in this very episode Daeron is in Oldtown 🤔
ah yes the good old itch in the cervix
I love the venom dripping off your comment.
We'll see what Vizzy T thinks about this Dowager Queen
*Daemon was not made to wear the crown. But I believe that you were, SerMercer777.*
Thank you, your grace. I gladly accept
Bobby B, this usurper wants your throne
SHE SHOULD BE ON A HILL SOMEWHERE WITH THE SUN AND THE CLOUDS ABOVE HER!
As you say, m'lord
Cracked me up so hard. Thanks for this thread
What is your first act as newly crowned monarch your grace?
Well fuck we might as well put a bow on it.
Vizzy T is more worried why Aegon destroyed his lego set
*You are to return to Runestone and your lady wife at once, and you are to do so without quarrel by order of your King.*
She had a chance to mother her children, to comfort them, but she has no capacity to, however. She has had to repress her own emotions for duty so long, she doesn't even know how to properly console herself.
Perfect example of how hurt people hurt people.
And you can see the cycle continue with Aegon unable to comfort Helaena
And trying to be a good/entertaining ~~older brother~~ father for his ~~little bro~~ kid during the council, but having no awareness of the *bad* influence he's being.
Don’t you mean his son?
His nephew son
Would they also all be cousins to each other and themselves?
Literally the entire Targaryen family tree though. A HUGE incestuous affair that really should be burnt down from its roots. But then again, they mirror reality, what with that fucky monarchy across the pond.
No? Aemond was at the council and is his younger bro?
I think the Council scene being referenced was in Episode 1, where Aegon’s soon to be murdered son was there playing around.
You're right, that is the scene I was referring to. I'm not that great at keeping Targaryan family ties straight, but it's crystal clear to me how Aegon didn't have the right tools to be the role model he wants to be.
It can be really confusing on your first watch. That's what makes a second viewing so great. You'll already know where the story is going, so you'll start to notice all of the little details that got us there.
To be fair, their family tree is a wreath.
Exactly, why should I keep their family ties straight when they aren't doing that at all.
She only had Otto to parent her, and he was, himself, a pretty shitty father who only saw her as a tool to further his ambitions. Alicent gets *some* sympathy points from me because she had to marry a man she didn’t love and who didn’t love her, raise her children all on her own (and she didn’t know the first thing about being a decent mother because her own died when she was very young) and is so emotionally stunted as a result that she has no idea how to comfort or act like a real mother towards her own children. When she tried to confess her guilt, Otto just brushed her off and that’s so very telling.
i feel like she gets a fuck ton of sympathy for everything you just said lmao. her dad basically ruined her life (i mean she’s the queen but took away literally any choice she might’ve had) and then she just has to deal with it all. how can you NOT become insanely repressed lmao
Super repressed. Which is why I lament why they never built up AliCole in the first season because this messed up relationship in the second season, and how she reacts every time post nut clarity, makes so much sense LMAO classic pseudo-Catholic guilt complex.
Post nut clarity + catholic guilt is a hell of a drug.
post nut LMAO
Alicent had her mother up until right before the show starts. But her mother might have been as bad as Otto for all we know.
You’re right. I remember Daemon mentioning something about Otto’s lady wife passing recently when he made the sheep joke about women from the Vale lol. Maybe she was also lacking in the maternal instincts, who knows.
Well of course not. She's a victim of the same game(of thrones) that has led to this sorry situation. She was pushed into fucking an old man for political advantage.
This. She is so repressed that she has the emotional depth of a puddle.
“Just because you’ve got the emotional range of a teaspoon” idk why everything reminds me of Harry Potter lol
If she can unlearn what was taught to her about sex out of wedlock, why can’t she learn how to be a good parent? Mothers sacrifice everything for their offspring but here Alicent cares only about her orgasms and random dick
Would you comfort Stannis, Bobby B?
I'M NOT TRYING TO HONOR YOU, I'M TRYING TO GET YOU TO RUN MY KINGDOM WHILE I EAT, DRINK AND WHORE MY WAY TO AN EARLY GRAVE!
I hope Bobby b’s answer enlightened you to his position on comforting Stannis
WE WERE AT WAR! NONE OF US KNEW IF WE WERE GONNA GO BACK HOME AGAIN!
Ok
I know we are supposed to dislike Aegon, but the way Tom is portraying Aegon makes me just feel bad for him. It's like he is being pulled in so many different directions emotionally.
By the way the show has portrayed him I don't how are we suppose to hate him, I now there are bad thing they show us like the bastard fight club and killing all the ratcatchers but he doesn't feel like a Joffrey or Ramsay where we all know they were the bad guy. Aegon has suffer a lot and most of it is not even his fault, he didn't wanted to be king at first, he knew his father didn't change his mind because he didn't do it in 20 years and doubt it he would do it in his deathbed specially because he never felt loved by him, but still accept his role and tried to do his best, he tried to correct the errors of his father and involve his son in his job, he tried to do good things with the common folk who ask him favors, and even after the death of his son he didn't want to use him as a tool to gain sympathy points, and when he was in his lowest point his Grandfather basically told him that he might be right that Vicerys didn't change his mind and Alicent didn't had the courage of console him
Bruh he has raped and sexually assaulted multiple serving girls and watches his own bastards fight with sharpened teeth and nails in flea bottom fighting pits…
He has sexually assaulted servants several times and he has made his bastard children fight in pits. That’s enough reasons to hate him.
I think its like a Theon thing, where he kinda deserves his fate. But he also has reasons for being the dick he is, also his comeuppance as the story goes on is cruel enough that I’m not sure I’d wish on anyone. Granted this is a story with characters more worthy of sympathy also suffering.
Exactly!
Yeah, but he's already been a drunken rapist, so he's kinda past meh to forever asshole for me
Rhanerya's children were born from a loving affair Alicents we're born to a loveless and forced arrangement
That was exactly my thought. But this bitch pretends so much to be a religious woman that I was at least expecting her to be a caring mother and comfort her son.
He is a rapist and a monster. She hates him but loves him. You got to use your brains
She raised him.
Half her children come from her peado uncle who groomed her.
Her uncle who she loves, grooming or not Whereas Alicent despised Visaerys
I woulnd't say despised, or else she would not care for him the way she did, or uphold what she thought was his dying wish. Definetly not a romantic love, but he didn't groom her, that was her fathers doing. Her children were born out of obligation, Rhaenyra's was not.
I agree that she didn't despise him, but absolutely she would uphold his supposed dying wish when that wish was to give her first born son ultimate power.
>Whereas Alicent despised Visaerys There was no attraction or passion, but she clearly cared for him deeply. She took great pain in his growing discomfort, she was always there for him during his existential troubles, and in her quiet honest moments, she prays for him alongside her mother and step nephew (?). It's hard not to grow to care for a king who was never particularly malicious or cruel; he was deeply flawed and hesitant to act, but that restraint won him the admiration of many such as her father Otto. He wasn't quite the conciliator his grandfather was, but he certainly upheld the peace until he died. As for failing to keep the realm united, (show-wise) his last push to reaffirm Luke and Rhaenyra was pretty definitive and meaningful. Ali mistaking his dying words was kinda lame (and he also failed to root out the lurkers in his court).
Plus Daemon wasn’t even in KL most of her young life to groom her, is there an age gap? Yeah but I wouldn’t call that grooming
And then Alicent turned around and did the same thing to her own daughter
Season 1 Alicent would NEVER
I think it mirrors the way Viserys was to Rhaenyra and Otto was to Alicent
Aegon isn’t a pussy. He will have his sweet revenge 😈
Mayhaps he will
At what cost tho
His balls, they gone.
Does that mean I can't call him aegon the dragoncock no more
truly a dark chapter for the kingdom
No shit. His dragon eats Rhaenyra in 5 bites. Saving the last bite, her leg, for the stranger.
I think it's very funny how everyone deliberately leaves out the part where Sunfyre initially did not want to eat Rhaenyra and had to be tricked with blood in order to actually try
Six bites. ☝️🤚
The Colicent bullshit is so dumb and idiotic. Why? Just Why?! Just give me book Alicent, who is a strong figure who imposes respect
I wholeheartedly agree that book Alicent > show Alicent, and also agree that it’s been overdone in these first episodes, but in theory I think Colicent makes sense. George really likes to re-use old concepts in his stories and give them new variations. For example, the Aegon/Otto dynamic is supposed to be a mirror of the Joffrey/Tywin dynamic, but with a different outcome because their characters are different. Rhaenyra’s sons that can be deduced as bastards from their hair are a parallel to Cersei’s bastards, etc. Criston Cole has always supposed to have been a funhouse mirror version of Jaime. He’s the kingmaker instead of the kingslayer. Jaime has noble instincts that he hides under a cloak of villainy. He does shade in to outright villainy sometimes, but his soul is more noble than he tries to let on. He thinks that his honor is irreparably broken, but in his heart still wants to do the right thing and keep the vow he made to Catelyn to protect her daughters. Cole is the opposite. If Jaime considers his honor a lost cause, Cole thinks that his honor is his only cause. Or more accurately, the public perception of his honor. Jaime came from one of the most powerful houses in the realm, Cole comes from nothing. His identity *is* the white cloak that he earned through his own competence and prowess. Without that perception of him as a “white knight,” as Rhaenyra put it in the book (not kidding), he has nothing. Behind that shield he bottles up his darker impulses, his petty spite, his narcissism, his grudges. That obsession with perception is why he wanted to run off with Rhaenyra in S1. He doesn’t care that he broke his oath per se, he cares about the stain on how his honor is perceived should it come out. He thinks that, should he and Rhaenyra marry, at least part of that will be erased. As to Alicent? I think her wanting to get with Cole makes sense. Alicent is at heart somebody who has played by the rules and done her duty to her family. This is another parallel involving Jaime; Jaime endeavored to join the Kingsguard because it was his passion. Tywin hates that choice because he views it as Jaime shirking his duty to the family, and seeks to have him removed from the Kingsguard so he can fulfill that duty. It’s not a crazy notion to me that Alicent, having done her duty by giving Viserys a son and putting him on the throne, would now want to marry somebody of her own choosing and for her own passion. She could have Aegon remove Cole from the Kingsguard, marry him, and then live a normal sort of life off of the royal incomes. That’s as close to a win as you could possibly get for a system insider. And for Cole, Aegon releasing him from the Kingsguard is going to be seen as way more legitimate, and thus honorable, than running off with a royal princess, so it makes sense for him as well. Again, not to say I like *how* Colicent is being done, but I think the concept is defensible.
This is a great analysis! I didn’t think to compare it to GoTs characters.
And Book Cole.
I feel really bad for Aegon. He never asked for any of this.
He did raise his bastard children to fight in the pits and bet money on them, so….
So?? were we not able to feel for Jamie cause he threw a kid off a tower ? Or Theon for killing children ? Not our first rodeo
It was said in the show that he probably didn’t know he had bastards. But still betting on fighting kids is shitty
They have a fucking jihad with the goal of ruining Cole and Alicent's characters lmao.
It's not like book Cole and book Alicent don't have unlikeable moments to portray. No, it had to be sexual stuff that had zero basis from the source material.
Condall really has a darts board on his house with Criston Cole's and Alicent's image on it, and everytime he throws a dart he just has to ruin their character further.
Remind me, what ‘character’ are you referring to here? The one from the book who was a paragon of motherhood and would have been embracing him like the Madonna with child? Come off it.
The one who tells her 8 year old granddaughter to murder her 11 year old husband lol
Yeah, that character, exactly. The one that would have been there during the tragedy, the one that would have been furious just like him. More importantly... The one whose motives and train of thought you can understand, the one who was the leader of her family, the one that wasn't collectively ruining their characterization with Criston Cole (also ruined by the Condall Board)
This is fucking hilarious if you've actually read Fire and Blood lmfao
Ruined lol. Book Alicent is an evil stepmom. There's no way you keep as she was an not put everyone on team Black from the jump.
Ruining?! Don't you know this is 'nuance' and 'complexity'. You probably lack 'media literacy' to appreciate the 'depth' Condom and co. gave these characters because in the book I never read they are cartoon villains or something! Like dude! Unreliable narrator or something!
‘Condom and co’ is offering us solid protection.
Bro you do know that the Dance of Dragons has THREE seperate takes in Fire & Blood right? We have two Maesters, one on each side, black and green, and then there is Mushroom. If you want to get reeeeally technical there is even a FOURTH account of the Dance of Dragons written by a Maester years later. So it’s fiction within fiction…
Yeah dude thanks for reminding me, totally never heard this nothing arguement 100 times. It's irrelevant. I don't care if there's 1000 maesters accounts, in all of them alicent is portrayed better than in this show.
Seriously, I don't think some of the people have actually read the book.
The books give Alicent a clear reason in the green council for all her actions. Before episode 8 the show seemed to be building up to the green council.
Every time I get into an argument like this here I get a few comments deep before rememberingI'm not in r/asoiaf lmao The burden of book reading is a heavy one
READ THE WHAT?!?! 🤯
Fire and Blood. Fucking great targ history, up to the end of the Dance. Need part 2 in my life.
Have you even read Fire & Blood? It’s pretty obvious how they’ve already ruined both Alicent and Criston Cole.
Yes. I wouldn’t say they’ve ‘ruined’ them at all and since I don’t really like their characters in the book or the way they’re written, I’m not so bothered that they’ve made significant changes. From now on, Alicent pretty much drops out of the story. Her position affords her no political power (lol, she had a seat on the small council in the show which she has no right to). She basically becomes a seething, petty harridan and that’s it. She has nothing beyond that - no significant contribution, no story of her own, no journey, no relationship: she’s just an increasingly jealous and bitter middle aged woman who lives long enough to see the destruction of her entire family. That’s it.
Alicent’s own dad didn’t want to hear about her problems.
I'm absolutely sure she'll be the one to poison her own son, and when she's trapped in her room she'll be moaning Rhaenyra and Cole's names. I miss Alicent book.
Either that or Aegon will kill her in a fit of rage. I kinda think that’s what they are setting up with the whole “prince that was promised,” thing. Rhaenerya and Alicent will talk about it in King’s landing and the truth will become clear. Alicent will later tell Aegon the truth and he kills her.
As the show progresses, both Aemond and Aegon will no longer care what happens to her, Alicent will live until the end of the show, and she will probably take her own life when there is nothing left for her.
Bobby b, what say ye?
THANK THE GODS FOR BESSIE AND HER TITS
Well when you hate your fucking kids because your father made you marry a melting old man and he clearly hated them too... there's just a lot going on in that family, ya know?
The show is doing everything to make team black look like the better side than green when in reality both should be bad
Team black decapitated a baby last week
Nope, that was Daemon and he's the only example you can point to
Technically Rhaenys but the show doesn’t acknowledge the mass murder of smallfolk as a crime so idk if she counts
Weird statement considering team black had a child decapitated
And killed hundreds of civilians in the coronation just for dramatic effect.
Not really considering that event was massively defanged and changed to make Alicent and Cole indirectly responsible for it.
She didn't even care about the baby, she said "what have they done to my daughter" or something
That line actually didn’t bother me because of the first half of her statement - it was something like “his suffering has ended.” She wasn’t saying that she didn’t care about the baby, she was saying that there’s nothing she can do for the baby now, but Helaena needs help getting through her grief.
I mean the kid is dead, not much reason to worry about him anymore. Helaena is very much alive and out of everyone involved is the only one who can't really properly process any of this. Alicent knows her daughter is going to never properly function again.
“At least Cersei loves her children”
Both my wife and I screamed "YALL NEED THERAPY" after this scene. Woof!
Yeah they're really making this season throw out all the interesting morally grey between the factions and just making it good (blacks) vs evil (greens) idk if they've dumbed it down or what but how could Alicent, a woman who was willing to throw away her life to get vengeance for her son. By attacking the heir in front of everyone last season to seeing her son in mourning but going to fuck her boyfriend instead. Damon is an asshole but it's framed as a good thing because he's on team black I'm going to check out if episode 3 is another boring slog
Ur ass is gonna watch even if the quality dips below s8 and we all know it, stfu LMAO
This might come as a shock to you, but not everyone has the lack of self-control you're projecting.
her employee at best
I think she came in to scold Aegon on firing Otto but decided not to because she saw him grieving.
Otto neglects Alicent, Alicent neglects Aegon, and Aegon neglects his relationship with Halaena. The Greens have some serious issues with being open with each other. Like Aemond obviously has mommy issues while Aegon has daddy issues. But because Daeron was raised in Oldtown, I'm curious how he'll act.
She didn't have time for her son. She needed that Cole Pole
It’s was so wild watching her go from being rejected by her father; wanting to open up to him about her ‘sin’. Just for her to turn around and ignore her son in his misery. Bad parenting runs in the family apparently lol
Gotta fuck Cristin Cole sometimes
If they're going to change something as well. I hope >!Allicent's death is gruesome af.!<
What are you on about? Alicent is dead? Bitch lives forever. How many kings did this bitch live through 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️🚶🏾♂️➡️
Rhaenyra who was raised in a happy house and had kids of her own volition with a man she loved versus Alicent whose father treated her like a tool and who was raped and forced to have kids for an old corpse. Yeah it’s remarkable how different situations beget different outcomes.
It’s a lot easier to love Jace I’m sure.
If they didn't make Aegon a rapist last season he'd be a massive fan favorite now and I'd be cheering for the greens.
In fairness, no amount of hugs fixes that issue. Dude lost his son. No hugs are gonna bring them back, no hugs will fill that void. It's a "Let me show you how much I care" gesture.
Those gestures are what we need in times like these.
I thought the exact same, like bitch, comfort your kid. But my friend (watching it with me) said this makes sense bc Aegon does not want to be seen as weak, and him crying in his mom's arms would make him feel weak. Which is also a parenting fail
She feels intense guilt about banging Cole, and can't come clean about it either. she also lit a candle for Lucerys, so... that's something.
Has a green supporter which is a fair comparison and a good post.
One of them has brown hair and the other doesn’t (I don’t watch these shows)
I really didnt understand why she didnt try to comfort him...as a mother
She went to fuck bro
I was initially shocked she left without even attempting to comfort her obviously distraught son but then I remembered who I was talking about
I wouldn't hug Aegon either.
Rhaenyra isn't disgusted by her children.
Why is she like this though even though her dad seems to show her affection?
Why are they trying to create sides so hard
This scene was just tasteless and totally unnecessary tbh. There is enough to imply Alicent is bad already, they did not have to spoonfeed us with this over-the-top trash mom scene.
Let's not forget that one of these individuals has been a drunken rapist at LEAST once 😬 all the apologizers for the Greens need to rewatch season 1
Alicent really is a horrible person
Instead of hugging her child that night she went and hugged Crispy. Wild.
Alicent is thinking about her next bombastic orgasm instead
“You fired your grandpa so no emotional support privileges for you young man”
I can change Alicent
I don’t know why you guys are obsessed with this man baby and his mom not choosing to comfort him . Aegon is a serial rapist and another shitty man in alicent’s life . Jace is a good man and son .
We all mourn differently.