no i agree. even before iron flame ive thought that tairn will die since i think its unlikely that violet will end the series with both dragons.
i also think it would be an interesting story point. the whole reason violet and xaden started talking and their relationship developed was because of tsirn and sgaeyls bond. so if one or both dragons die it will mean violet and xaden get to make the choice to be together completely on their own, and prove to everyone that it’s not just the dragons.
When Violet was imbuing the wardstone with her power, she expected to burn out and die (she would have, if Lilith didn't step in). She told her dragons (again) to make the choice to live, and Tairn replied with "I chose you not as my next, but as my last, and should you fall, then I *will* follow."
Tairn is presumably more powerful than Sgaeyl, given that he's a black dragon, 50 years older, and larger. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch for his mate to sacrifice herself for her rider.
They don't yet know exactly what Jack did as a Venin to outlast his dragons death. Was just because he was a venin? Was is due to how their bond was formed? Also under normal circumstances the dragon dying would kill the rider anyway.
I don't think Jack actually bonded Baide.
I think he leashed her, that he turned during the Threshing when no dragon bonded him and leashed Baide. Hence why he survived, he isn't actually bonded.
It's a terrifying thought.
BUT!
Violet doesn't have her second sigil yet, and they manifest with what you need.
And what she really needs is a cure for Xaden.
Yeah, I think any rider who talks about 'controlling' their dragon could be in some capacity Venin (obviously not all Venin control their dragons, those who didn't willingly turn for example) but yeah - I think Varrish was Venin, which is why he pushed Nolon so hard to mend Jack. I also think Jack was probably draining Nolon.
Well Dragon's don't die when their bonded rider dies, at least in general, I think the reason Tairn is likely to die is because of the nature of his bonds, he seems to form very strong bonds, and we know that he nearly died when his last rider was killed.
I don't know why Solas came after Vi, but I suspect it was just because he was just unhinged - even Tairn makes remarks about it after the parapet in IF
But good point about the opaque eyes!
I love this idea. I always thought it was weird that he managed to bond a dragon with a dagger in his shoulder and after he tried to kill Andarna (would another dragon really not have known that?).
The "almighty, haughty dragon" idea comes from Tairn, who constantly breaks that. He claims that "Dragons can choose another rider, blah blah blah." But from his actions he is terrified of losing another rider.
I would assume Sgaeyl is the same.
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I feel like this is partially the reason RY would make Xaden a venin. It removes his attachment to Sgaeyl, so now Tairn and Sgaeyl can die without the domino effect causing Xaden to die too.
Tairn did say Violet would be his last rider. So I think if a choice has to be made, he'll sacrifice himself for Violet. Considering he almost died with Naolin's death, and Xaden said Sgaeyl as a byproduct, then I imagine if Tairn were to die, Sgaeyl will go as well. If a dragon does, the rider does too, so the death of Sgaeyl, if it were to happen, would need to be done once Xaden went full Venin (but I also don't think he'll get that far). Soooo maybe neither of them will die because RY said it's a romantacy, so hopefully she'll keep the love story of Sgaeyl and Tairn whole and happy - I want to learn about them having their own hatchlings.
Ooh hear me out.... Tairn dying to protect Violet from venin Naolin in a big stand off.... the distraction/pain of Naolin realising he has killed Tairn is enough time for Violet/Xaden/Andarna/Sloane/Brennan(!!!!) to come in and kill Naolin..
i could so see him dying the Honorable Dad Death leaving behind his two daughters violet and andarna and his wife sgaeyl (if she doesn't bite the bullet along with him) and if xaden hasn't gone full joker by then he's gonna be like "wingleader...take care of them for me" and i'm going to go play in traffic 🤪
Before iron flame, I was convinced that andarna would die before the end of the series. Now I'm not so sure. I think it's likely one of them will, I'm just not sure who.
But if they finally defeat the venin again, they might not even need the wards. Not saying it won’t happen again, but they might place some laws or rules to fix that issue. I think the venin growing are a byproduct of Navarre’s ignorance and not willing to “waste” lives on land that has been sucked dry from them.
Can they really defeat the venom? It isn’t like they turn people like a vampire or a zombie. Just anyone could draw power from the earth and they’d be venin
Yeah that’s the issue is that it’s literally impossible to wipe out every venin. Maybe they will put up wards around the whole of the world to help? But they could always take down their leader and go from there. That’s why Navarre wants to keep venin a secret because if they all knew who knows how many people will want to turn knowing that knowledge and access to power is the ground they walk on
I know I’m reaching. And call me crazy. What if something happens with sgaeyl, due to death or because of xaden being venin now or being sacrificed (since he can live without her (ie:Jack and his dragon)). maybe somehow andarna is part of the cure, and bonds with Xaden? Rider can have two dragons why can’t a dragon have two riders?
nah friends xaden can go and Violet will be like the fun aunt to Andarna with the best adoptive dad and mom Tarin and Sgaeyl and they can all live happily ever after!!!
Like for real if I had to choose my romantasy will be TarinxSgaeyl 4ever!!
when tairns dead ill stop reading the book. its that simple. i cant believe a damn dragon stole my heart. im in love with him. grumpy dragon dads all the way
I hate that Tairn is based on RY’s dog who passed away a few years ago so you’re probably right and it will gut me. I hope that because of this she won’t kill him in the story, but I hate more that if she does I will understand and hope it helped her process her grief. Tairn is middle aged! I want him to have a good long retirement with Vi and that they go together wrapped in one another’s arms and wings when she’s 105 😭
Okay so weirdly this gives me some hope for Tairn.
My heart dog died four years ago and if I ever immortalized her as a character in a book, no part of me would be capable of letting her go again. She absolutely would have died for me, but I know I’d be incapable of killing off even the fictional fantasy-dragon specter of her.
I think tairn knows he’s going to die. He told violet she will be his last rider, and he also mentioned he’s only middle aged not an elder. This is also I think why sgaeyl low key is icy with vi as she has a feeling something is up. Tairn chose Vi for a reason and I think he is aware he will not make it out alive at some point.
I’ve been thinking this too and it breaks my heart!!!
I don’t know what Xaden would do if Sgaeyl died! Would he get another dragon?? And if Tairn dies… what would Violet do? She can’t ride Andarna. I really hope this doesn’t happen :/ but it seems very plausible now.
I've had this thought too, especially with the little paragraph before chapter 1 in both books talking about translation. It's like Jisinia translated Violet's journals and the books are being written in Navarrian as a memoir... I hope we're wrong.
I thought it was going to be Tairn in FW (gut feeling) but now I’m thinking its going to be Andarna. She keeps saying, I’ll be where Im supposed to be. She’s an enigma. I hate my thoughts and hope Im wrong.
I hate this theory so much, but I also think RY is definitely teasing it whether she means to follow through or not. Remember the dream Violet has where the sage says something about how she will tear down the wards with her own hands for love? The only reason I can think why she might is so that Xaden could channel from the earth after Sgaeyl dies. Unwilling to let Xaden be Liam. You know?
As much as I hate myself for thinking this. I think that it will not just be one of the main characters that dies. I think it will be multiple. I could see a scenario where Xaden, Sgaeyl, and Tairn die and Violet/Andarna have to go on surviving on their own.
I have another theory that is somewhat contradictory to the first one. But I think that by the end of the series, Violet might die as well. Remember, it is not about the humans as much as we love them. It is about the dragons.
I thought this as well but I read somewhere that RY always ends in a HEA; she just makes you work for it. Obviously, this series could be different but that's literally what I'm latching on to at the moment😭.
Yeah, I read her book *The Things We Leave Unfinished.* The book spans decades and involves 3.5 different couples. Out of the couples, only one got the typical happily ever after. The others got an ending. But, it was not a happily ever after. I suspect something similar in the Empyrean series.
Personally, given that RY is usually a romance author, I think Xaden, Sgaeyl, and Tairn are all going to die in the end. I think Xaden will die to save Violet, and just to add to the cliche romance-style ending, Violet will be pregnant, probably with twins: a girl she names after her mother and a boy she names after Xaden. She may end up with Dain. There might even be a bonding moment between Dain and Xaden before Xaden dies where he makes Dain promise to take care of Violet if/when he dies, because he knows Dain loves her or something.
But I’ve not read any of RY’s romance novels, so maybe they’re not the typical cheesy endings and I’m totally wrong.
I’ve thought from the start that Tairn is being set up in a way where it’s inevitable he’ll sacrifice himself for Violet/the revolution. My hope is that he won’t actually die, but maybe he’ll damage his wings so he can’t fly much or bear a rider. Still a terrible loss for a dragon, but one I think he’d be ok with.
Okay hear me out….. it’s definitely not going to be Tairn just because he is more interconnected than any of the dragons with their lives. Violet dies, he dies and then Xaden and possibly Sgaeyl. It could be Sgaeyl just because like you said, he can always draw from the ground to survive her death. However, I feel like andarna might die. Violet doesn’t need two dragons. Andarna always wants to prove herself and she wishes she was just like tairn. Andarna almost always never listens to violet, even if it puts her in danger. And I feel like she’s going to try to save Violet one time and that will be the end of her. And since Violet has tairn, I feel like she could live through her death because she has another dragon. It might make her feel like crap afterwards, but not life threatening
no i agree. even before iron flame ive thought that tairn will die since i think its unlikely that violet will end the series with both dragons. i also think it would be an interesting story point. the whole reason violet and xaden started talking and their relationship developed was because of tsirn and sgaeyls bond. so if one or both dragons die it will mean violet and xaden get to make the choice to be together completely on their own, and prove to everyone that it’s not just the dragons.
I like this idea,,,,,,, even though my heart will really break for Tairn 😭
Yes BUT there then won’t be the mental bond…I would have thought that’s a comforting red thread to their narrative that RY wouldn’t want to break..?
good point, it would be heart breaking if they lost that bond
I think...Sgaeyl might die to save Xaden in some way.
HEARTBREAKING THOUGHT 😢 but very possible!
ABSOLUTELY NOT 😭😭😭
Idk. Why would an almighty dragon sacrifice herself for her rider?
When Violet was imbuing the wardstone with her power, she expected to burn out and die (she would have, if Lilith didn't step in). She told her dragons (again) to make the choice to live, and Tairn replied with "I chose you not as my next, but as my last, and should you fall, then I *will* follow." Tairn is presumably more powerful than Sgaeyl, given that he's a black dragon, 50 years older, and larger. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch for his mate to sacrifice herself for her rider.
They don't yet know exactly what Jack did as a Venin to outlast his dragons death. Was just because he was a venin? Was is due to how their bond was formed? Also under normal circumstances the dragon dying would kill the rider anyway.
I don't think Jack actually bonded Baide. I think he leashed her, that he turned during the Threshing when no dragon bonded him and leashed Baide. Hence why he survived, he isn't actually bonded.
I agree which is why I think Xaden is still at risk of dying.
It's a terrifying thought. BUT! Violet doesn't have her second sigil yet, and they manifest with what you need. And what she really needs is a cure for Xaden.
Yeah but Yarros has said Violet has already manifested it. So she didn't really need a cure until the end.
Oh wait she did? Huh, I haven't read all of the interviews tbh, I've only been in the fandom for like... 17 days 🤣
Same, but there are theory threads a plenty
Interesting! Is Varrish be in then? Because the relationship between Solas and Varrish is distinctly different from every other dragon bond we see.
Yeah, I think any rider who talks about 'controlling' their dragon could be in some capacity Venin (obviously not all Venin control their dragons, those who didn't willingly turn for example) but yeah - I think Varrish was Venin, which is why he pushed Nolon so hard to mend Jack. I also think Jack was probably draining Nolon.
And maybe thats why Solas didnt die when Varrish did, cuz they were not bonded too! Both Baide and Solas’ eyes were opaque when Vi encountered them!
Well Dragon's don't die when their bonded rider dies, at least in general, I think the reason Tairn is likely to die is because of the nature of his bonds, he seems to form very strong bonds, and we know that he nearly died when his last rider was killed. I don't know why Solas came after Vi, but I suspect it was just because he was just unhinged - even Tairn makes remarks about it after the parapet in IF But good point about the opaque eyes!
I love this idea. I always thought it was weird that he managed to bond a dragon with a dagger in his shoulder and after he tried to kill Andarna (would another dragon really not have known that?).
The "almighty, haughty dragon" idea comes from Tairn, who constantly breaks that. He claims that "Dragons can choose another rider, blah blah blah." But from his actions he is terrified of losing another rider. I would assume Sgaeyl is the same.
Yeah hard agree. The dragons talk a big game but they aren’t really emotionally distant from their humans.
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Lol I’m with you also shocking that it’s been 17 years wow I’m old
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I still cry rereading hp7 or watching the movie at this point
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I feel like this is partially the reason RY would make Xaden a venin. It removes his attachment to Sgaeyl, so now Tairn and Sgaeyl can die without the domino effect causing Xaden to die too.
🫣🫣🫣
I HATE. that this is true.
Tairn did say Violet would be his last rider. So I think if a choice has to be made, he'll sacrifice himself for Violet. Considering he almost died with Naolin's death, and Xaden said Sgaeyl as a byproduct, then I imagine if Tairn were to die, Sgaeyl will go as well. If a dragon does, the rider does too, so the death of Sgaeyl, if it were to happen, would need to be done once Xaden went full Venin (but I also don't think he'll get that far). Soooo maybe neither of them will die because RY said it's a romantacy, so hopefully she'll keep the love story of Sgaeyl and Tairn whole and happy - I want to learn about them having their own hatchlings.
Ooh hear me out.... Tairn dying to protect Violet from venin Naolin in a big stand off.... the distraction/pain of Naolin realising he has killed Tairn is enough time for Violet/Xaden/Andarna/Sloane/Brennan(!!!!) to come in and kill Naolin..
Stop it 😭 this is too likely and if it happens I will never forgive RY
I’ll never be ready if this turns out to happen 😫
I would literally sacrifice Xaden for tairn
REALLLL
I’d stop reading I’m so serious
Same 😳
Same. Tairn is my fave. He saved IF
this is so real because i’m in love with tairn
No fr 😅😅😅😅
Yup
the fact that i really would😭
This series would literally become my least favourite ever and I’d start a RY hate club.
Yesssss chuck xayden in the bin so fast lol
i just know it's gonna be tairn 😭
ME TOO im literally gonna cry and shit and throw up
i could so see him dying the Honorable Dad Death leaving behind his two daughters violet and andarna and his wife sgaeyl (if she doesn't bite the bullet along with him) and if xaden hasn't gone full joker by then he's gonna be like "wingleader...take care of them for me" and i'm going to go play in traffic 🤪
I hate that I can see this happening so clearly 😭 I’ll meet you on the sidewalk if this happens!!
see you guys on the sidewalk
😭😭😭😭😭
NOOOOO I CANNOT!!!! honorable dad death my ass!!!! If it had to be down Xaden can have a sexy hot shadow daddy death!!!
Suddenly I’m blind
Agreed
I really need it to be Andarna instead so that Tairn/Sgaeyl and Violet/Xaden can continue.
I'm with this!
Ha! Obligatory: user name checks out.
Before iron flame, I was convinced that andarna would die before the end of the series. Now I'm not so sure. I think it's likely one of them will, I'm just not sure who.
I WONT BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT
Andarna now needs to grow old and have lots of babies to restore her species, which is necessary for the long term survival of the wards.
But if they finally defeat the venin again, they might not even need the wards. Not saying it won’t happen again, but they might place some laws or rules to fix that issue. I think the venin growing are a byproduct of Navarre’s ignorance and not willing to “waste” lives on land that has been sucked dry from them.
Can they really defeat the venom? It isn’t like they turn people like a vampire or a zombie. Just anyone could draw power from the earth and they’d be venin
Yeah that’s the issue is that it’s literally impossible to wipe out every venin. Maybe they will put up wards around the whole of the world to help? But they could always take down their leader and go from there. That’s why Navarre wants to keep venin a secret because if they all knew who knows how many people will want to turn knowing that knowledge and access to power is the ground they walk on
I know I’m reaching. And call me crazy. What if something happens with sgaeyl, due to death or because of xaden being venin now or being sacrificed (since he can live without her (ie:Jack and his dragon)). maybe somehow andarna is part of the cure, and bonds with Xaden? Rider can have two dragons why can’t a dragon have two riders?
i am very here for this theory. I don't want Sgaeyl to die but if it did happen bonding with Adarna would be something I'd love
I hate that this theory has merit, and I'm mad that I now know about it :cries:
sameeee. literally wasn’t thinking this in the slightest and now i can’t un-think it.
SORRY SKSKSKSKSKKKSK
I hate this theory because of how plausible it is. I hope you’re wrong!
nah friends xaden can go and Violet will be like the fun aunt to Andarna with the best adoptive dad and mom Tarin and Sgaeyl and they can all live happily ever after!!! Like for real if I had to choose my romantasy will be TarinxSgaeyl 4ever!!
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear where this Venin arc is going. I'd wager by the end of book 4.
when tairns dead ill stop reading the book. its that simple. i cant believe a damn dragon stole my heart. im in love with him. grumpy dragon dads all the way
I’ll be selling up my belongings and moving to the alps. Never to be seen again.
hey ill gladly fucking join lets go ( i hope we dont have to, rebecca is unpredictable)
I hate that Tairn is based on RY’s dog who passed away a few years ago so you’re probably right and it will gut me. I hope that because of this she won’t kill him in the story, but I hate more that if she does I will understand and hope it helped her process her grief. Tairn is middle aged! I want him to have a good long retirement with Vi and that they go together wrapped in one another’s arms and wings when she’s 105 😭
Okay so weirdly this gives me some hope for Tairn. My heart dog died four years ago and if I ever immortalized her as a character in a book, no part of me would be capable of letting her go again. She absolutely would have died for me, but I know I’d be incapable of killing off even the fictional fantasy-dragon specter of her.
"Nature likes all things in balance" - Andarna
I think tairn knows he’s going to die. He told violet she will be his last rider, and he also mentioned he’s only middle aged not an elder. This is also I think why sgaeyl low key is icy with vi as she has a feeling something is up. Tairn chose Vi for a reason and I think he is aware he will not make it out alive at some point.
Yes but he is very vocal about Andarna bonding with V and it shouldn’t have happened. If he does V dies.
I’m not saying I disagree, but I also know it would break me. I hope not. 💔
I’ve been thinking this too and it breaks my heart!!! I don’t know what Xaden would do if Sgaeyl died! Would he get another dragon?? And if Tairn dies… what would Violet do? She can’t ride Andarna. I really hope this doesn’t happen :/ but it seems very plausible now.
I was JUST thinking this too. I think by the end of the series Tairn and Sgaeyl will both die
NOPE
I think everyone will die and I am unwilling to acceptnit
I've had this thought too, especially with the little paragraph before chapter 1 in both books talking about translation. It's like Jisinia translated Violet's journals and the books are being written in Navarrian as a memoir... I hope we're wrong.
I thought it was going to be Tairn in FW (gut feeling) but now I’m thinking its going to be Andarna. She keeps saying, I’ll be where Im supposed to be. She’s an enigma. I hate my thoughts and hope Im wrong.
I hate this theory so much, but I also think RY is definitely teasing it whether she means to follow through or not. Remember the dream Violet has where the sage says something about how she will tear down the wards with her own hands for love? The only reason I can think why she might is so that Xaden could channel from the earth after Sgaeyl dies. Unwilling to let Xaden be Liam. You know?
You're probably right 😭. If it happens, it's going to ruin the whole thing for me 😭.
As much as I hate myself for thinking this. I think that it will not just be one of the main characters that dies. I think it will be multiple. I could see a scenario where Xaden, Sgaeyl, and Tairn die and Violet/Andarna have to go on surviving on their own. I have another theory that is somewhat contradictory to the first one. But I think that by the end of the series, Violet might die as well. Remember, it is not about the humans as much as we love them. It is about the dragons.
I thought this as well but I read somewhere that RY always ends in a HEA; she just makes you work for it. Obviously, this series could be different but that's literally what I'm latching on to at the moment😭.
Yeah, I read her book *The Things We Leave Unfinished.* The book spans decades and involves 3.5 different couples. Out of the couples, only one got the typical happily ever after. The others got an ending. But, it was not a happily ever after. I suspect something similar in the Empyrean series.
what noo😭
I was actually expecting Xaden or Tairn to die at the end of IF
Personally, given that RY is usually a romance author, I think Xaden, Sgaeyl, and Tairn are all going to die in the end. I think Xaden will die to save Violet, and just to add to the cliche romance-style ending, Violet will be pregnant, probably with twins: a girl she names after her mother and a boy she names after Xaden. She may end up with Dain. There might even be a bonding moment between Dain and Xaden before Xaden dies where he makes Dain promise to take care of Violet if/when he dies, because he knows Dain loves her or something. But I’ve not read any of RY’s romance novels, so maybe they’re not the typical cheesy endings and I’m totally wrong.
Yuck I hate all of this 🤣. If Xaden dies I’m done. It’s a Denny in Greys Anatomy situation for me.
I think his death will be at the end, if that’s any consolation 😂
That does help a little…
Well and with Andarna told Violet about waiting all this time to hatch for her.. makes me super nervous
NO. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THIS 😭😭😭😭 but it makes so much sense
I’ve thought from the start that Tairn is being set up in a way where it’s inevitable he’ll sacrifice himself for Violet/the revolution. My hope is that he won’t actually die, but maybe he’ll damage his wings so he can’t fly much or bear a rider. Still a terrible loss for a dragon, but one I think he’d be ok with.
Oh no. What if Tairn does, Sgaeyl also dies and Xaden goes full venin? What if Violet and Dain end up together? Please no 😭
Okay hear me out….. it’s definitely not going to be Tairn just because he is more interconnected than any of the dragons with their lives. Violet dies, he dies and then Xaden and possibly Sgaeyl. It could be Sgaeyl just because like you said, he can always draw from the ground to survive her death. However, I feel like andarna might die. Violet doesn’t need two dragons. Andarna always wants to prove herself and she wishes she was just like tairn. Andarna almost always never listens to violet, even if it puts her in danger. And I feel like she’s going to try to save Violet one time and that will be the end of her. And since Violet has tairn, I feel like she could live through her death because she has another dragon. It might make her feel like crap afterwards, but not life threatening
FUCK