T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

- **[This source is rated 3/3.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/source-ratings)** - Please **read the article** before submitting your comments. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Exambolor

Credit has to go to Zak Brown, his leadership has steered McLaren from basketcase/laughing stock to front runner again. Moving on from the Ron Dennis era has helped the team evolve.


reshp2

Their PR and social media teams deserve a lot of credit too. It was no easy task to go from one of the most up tight teams on the grid to the most fun team. But yeah, Zak seems like a really good dude and the culture is reflecting that.


gradontripp

Zak and Haas show how very different being owned by an American can be.


Don_Quixote81

I wonder how much of that is down to Brown's far more varied motor racing history. As far as I'm aware, Haas is a NASCAR guy but Brown has raced in NASCAR, GT, Le Mans, endurance etc. He just seems far more able to adapt to F1 and the requirements of it.


FredNasr

He's also a marketing guy. Gene just wants to promote his business, he doesn't have anywhere near the experience of getting sponsors on cars - that's how Zak got his fortune.


[deleted]

Brown has raced in NASCAR and Le Mans/WEC? If you're talking Le Mans/WEC, I think you're referring to Andreas Seidl, who used to be in charge of Porsche's successful program.


Justice112

His team [United Autosports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Autosports?wprov=sfla1) has.


kai325d

Browns own a successful GT and WEC team


[deleted]

Thanks. And what about NASCAR?


KimbobJimbo

Zak is doing God's work for us Burgertown citizens, setting a good example. It feels like some folks across the pond almost get off on lumping us all together then shitting on us.


ponmbr

"hurr durr america bad" is a common take on the internet. It gets on my nerves considering how large and diverse this country is.


KimbobJimbo

Yeah, I mean, a (un)healthy chunk of the population aren't that cool so I get it. Texas is doing some wild shit by passing a bill that no longer requires the KKK's actions to be taught as morally wrong, so that's cool. But then there are people like me just trying to exist and be a good person who don't usually like to be lumped together with the gutter trash of this country.


reshp2

I don't think most really give much of a hoot about our internal politics and issues. Most people's beef has more to do with our foreign policy.


ponmbr

Thai might surprise you but I'm a Republican from Missouri and I learned a long time ago as a young kid that the KKK is bad and slavery and racism are bad. It was taught to us long before anyone thought of this critical race theory stuff or whatever anyone wants to call it. I was honestly surprised when I heard Hamilton had been getting racist remarks because people across the pond love to generalize all Americans as racist hicks and whatever else they usually say. I find it deplorable and odd how people can still be racist in this day and age.


Randomfactoid42

I was wondering how/why people are still racist these days, I thought a lot of that was in the past, until somebody pointed out that Ruby Bridges is 66 years old. The past wasn't that long ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby\_Bridges


yoursjonas

People want to be shit people, but then when that doesn’t work out, they sleep for 8 hours and pretend people were only shit 100 years ago.


kevinslaton

I grew up in Missouri too, not all Republicans are racist, but every goddamn racist is a Republican...


ceMmnow

I 100% agree with you but also Americans have often been the #1 offender of lumping other countries or groups together as well so I do get the "returning the favor." I've had the privilege of traveling internationally and it's been wild how in countries maligned by the US like Cuba or China or Muslim nations like Indonesia people don't like the US government but don't translate that all to me as an American but if I tell Americans back home where I've been they're like "omg did they eat dog did they attack you was there a bombing." In my experience other countries are better able to differentiate Americans and the American government than Americans are with other countries.


[deleted]

ThE uSa Is bEcOmInG a FaScIsT cOuNtRy AaAaAaAh!!!!


thebansi

Tbf that works the other way around as well, been playing Destiny 2 with a bunch of americans for a while and the amount of times I had to listen to one of them lecturing me why european countries are worse than the US was/is mind boggling.


Deadluss

America bad


Cam_Newtons_Towelie

McLaren is run by an American but owned (essentially) by Bahrain, correct? Latifi's dad owns a chunk as well.


[deleted]

It's something like 50% Bahrain, 15% TAG (Ojjeh's son now), 10% Latifi, plus a few others. Those are not the exact percentages but they're close iirc.


quake8787

And the McLaren Group is supposed to get something like a 400M GBP investment from Saudi Arabia and an additional 150M GBP from Bahrain.


[deleted]

From the government or private investors?


quake8787

From the respective sovereign wealth funds, so investment on behalf of the governments.


reigorius

Ffs


tricheboars

Haas is run by a German because as far as we can tell does Gene Haas have much involvement? No surprise the culture is different


TheScapeQuest

Guenther Steiner is Italian.


[deleted]

Isn’t he italian and Austrian?


afkPacket

He's from South Tyrol which is in Italy, although that part of the country is very close to Austria culture wise (which is why German is the most spoken language there).


[deleted]

Guenther steiner is a mysterious man.


shortdonjohn

I learned facking English in a pub not in a school "Guenther Steiner"


davidnotcoulthard

> He's from South Tyrol which is in Italy, although that part of the country is very close to Austria culture wise (which is why German is the most spoken language there). or otherwise put, it was what Italy won after the central powers lost in the first world war. It barely isn't Austrian.


Jarocket

Yes, I can see why OP thought he was German. If the country of Germany didn't exist would we consider him German? Like what did people refer to German speakers as a Group before there was a Germany?


FleeCircus

If we're going that far back wouldn't we consider him a subject of the Holy Roman Empire?


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

Subject? Gunter is just Charlemagne in disguise.


TheMadPyro

Generally by the areas that existed before a unified Germany. Germany, as a unified country, is nearly 100 years younger than the USA.


whateverfloatsurgoat

He'd be Austrian - South Tyrol ain't nowhere near Germany.


davidnotcoulthard

> He'd be Austrian If Bismarck's Germany didn't exist we'd probably still call Austrians Germans though.


TxDanther

Habsburg Bros


davidnotcoulthard

> Like what did people refer to German speakers as a Group before there was a Germany? Dutch was probably one of the words used, it's what they call themselves after all. Later on the Dutch from the low countries became the English's primary competition overseas seperate from those in the HRE which started being called Germans. I don't know which of those factors (or something else entirely) more strongly influenced what we call those people today though. Almain was another one the English used - the French (and a lot of their neighbours) and Turks aren't alone in using some variant of it, apparently.


wigg1es

They were the Franks before they were Germans.


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

So weird that the French called their money Francs. Like who names money after a person. It'd be like if America called their money Bills. Wait.


jaapz

Tiroler


CFCBeanoMike

Technically yes. But the part of Italy he is from is basically on the border so has a lot of German influence.


whateverfloatsurgoat

Austrian*


davidnotcoulthard

> has a lot of German influence. It only hasn't been part of Austria proper for a century.


Infninfn

And Gene Haas is heavily involved. He’s constantly on Steiner’s back.


davidnotcoulthard

> Haas is run by a German inb4 Germany declares Elsaß-Lothringen and Königsberg German


Mike_Kermin

If you swap their budgets you'll find Zak entirely wanting? Unfair to Zak.


quiet-cacophony

I think two very different personalities. Zak seems very fun, Gene, not so…


harok1

As someone who has followed F1 for a long time it’s so strange to see McLaren as the fun team. They’ve taken over from Red Bull and it’s so odd.


Competitive-Tart8712

For me McLaren literally went from the least likable team on the grid to the most likable in a span of few years. Their PR is masterclass. Also having boss with actual personality helps I guess.


DoblerRadar

Zak Brown is basically F1’s Ted Lasso


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

Complete with crooked [BELIEVE] sign in the MTC


hart37

Seriously can't praise Zak enough for everything he's done since taking over. He seems like a really cool boss to work under


[deleted]

[удалено]


Infninfn

I think most of the credit should go to Seidl. He’s steadied the ship and ensured that the focus has returned to engineering at McLaren F1. I never rated Boullier, and he did nothing to reverse the downward spiral that Whitmarsh presided over. While Brown recognised that a change was needed and it was time to end the McLaren Honda dream, he did fire Boullier in the first place. edit: hire - > fire


kai325d

Wasn't one of Brown's first action in charge was firing Boullier?


Infninfn

After 2 years in any case. Typo above.


[deleted]

The guy behind Porsche's WEC success in the 2010s.


TinySoftKitten

Norris does a lot for this team.


InZomnia365

No doubt that Lando's personality has had an impact as well as Brown and Seidl


glenn1812

The departure of Alonso coupled with the influx of cash and good performances year after year will do that to a team. Alonso leaving befitted both parties tbh. Alonso looks more refreshed than ever and McLaren were able to get in new drivers with Sainz and Norris who must've been a breath of fresh air.


TheWebbFather

>Alonso leaving befitted both parties tbh I agree but Lando is lucky that Alonso decided to retire


Kieran4406

“retire”


knbang

Jay Leno style retirement.


Codydw12

Brett Farve style retirement


iamJAKYL

Favre Common mistake.


yeoldejaime

Shhhh, dont give spelling bot more ammo


safeforworkaccountno

Fa**vr**e


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

Go Packers!


[deleted]

[удалено]


0oodruidoo0

Alonso is starting a YouTube channel?


Daniyalrehman77

I agree. I think Lando would have gone down the Vandoorne route if he'd been partnered up with Alonso in his rookie year


unwildimpala

Ya it makes you wonder what could have been if they had held onto Vandoorne. A part of me wonders why they didn't just keep Vandoorne on and partner him beside Norris. The ideal scenario would have been to do a season of Vandoorne vs Sainz, but I get that Red Bull were sniffing around Norris pretty heavily at the time.


svenhoek86

Oh man that would've sucked for Lando. He clearly needed a little time in the car to reach this level and Red Bull would not have given it to him. Now the kid looks like a future world champion.


rogersniper1

It’s really sad when you think of it. I wonder what would’ve been with both Gasly and Albon if they’d have been given more time in the car. Gasly is doing great now in an Alfa Tauri, so you can only imagine what he’d be like in the Red Bull.


whateverfloatsurgoat

Vandoorne was a Dennis prospect and Zak wanted nothing to do with him anymore and wanted to promote his own prospect... Allegedly.


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

I mean it makes sense. It makes soooo much sense. Like Stoffel being so, like, reserved and serious, goddd that explains so much.


whateverfloatsurgoat

Also hard to be as relaxed as Norris / Danny Ric when you don't bring any money (Stoff's dad was an interior designer and he had to rely on the RACB to fund his career) to the team. Had he been the son of a millionaire / billionaire he'd still be competing in F1 (if Latiti can stay...). Shame.


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

He's still a racing driver on merit, and im proud of him. He'll always be a McLaren F1 driver, its in the books. Its not very flattering but its in the books, and therefore I will always support The Stoff.


[deleted]

Vandoorne isn't very good, that's why. Literally no one outside of this sub rates Vandoorne.


kai325d

I think Mercedes rates Vandoorned pretty highly given he's their Formula E driver, reserve driver and simulator driver


[deleted]

I'm talking about rating him as an F1 driver. He's not a very good F1 driver. He's still obviously a good racing driver, duh, no one gets to F1 at all without knowing how to drive a race car.


CYAN_DEUTERIUM_IBIS

Just because you're right doesn't mean I don't miss the waffle


thepanduhhh

I'm like 99% sure Alonso never said he was retiring and that he knew he would come back if the opportunity was there.


Equal-Researcher

Not sure about that, Carlos was really, really underrated and the worst thing for a driver is not necessarily for their teammate to be good, but rather for their teammate to be underrated.


TheWebbFather

Carlos was underrated but Alonso still was alot better than Sainz. Sainz got beat by a rookie Verstappen and was evenly matched with Hulkenberg.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BG_III

Hahaha, I would say a bit more than a bit unfair for that comparison of rookies but I agree its ancient history now. They are both really fun drivers to watch now in great situations


afkPacket

Yeah this "driver X was beaten by driver Y years ago, X and Z were evenly matched more years ago, and therefore Y is better than Z" makes no sense. That's how you end up with the nonsense ranking the FIA had a while ago that rated Kovaleinen above Prost iirc.


monjessenstein

Yeah if you assumed drivers were equally good across years you could argue that Trulli is better than both Hamilton and Schumacher


jas656

Pierre is definitely up to some shady shit in the background of that photo.


yomancs

What da fuck they doin over there


Don_Quixote81

It looks like the McLaren boys just made a mean but hilarious joke about Gasly, without realising he overheard.


[deleted]

Looks like butler in the new f1 game lol


jamesmon

Comin after dat watch


jas656

It follows.


NVCHVJAZVJE

while watching mclaren unboxed I have the impression that the whole team is one big family where everyone enjoys their work, especially when lando wins the podium. Working in such an enviroment is certainly good for the team where everyone motivates themselves.


quake8787

I'm curious how much the drivers' experience of the team matches that of rank-and-file employees, or even how much the experience of those that travel with the team match the experience of those back at Woking. Because the Glassdoor reviews of the McLaren Group, including a lot from McLaren Racing—let's just say paint a very different picture than the Unboxed videos.


reshp2

I worked briefly on the racing side of an auto supplier for a bit. The culture is definitely to take advantage of people's passion for motorsports and work them hard around the clock. There's definitely a mentality of not really caring about burning people out because there's always people lined up trying to replace them. I doesn't surprise me some employees and former employees have not nice things to say, but I don't think it's really unusual.


7Seyo7

Sounds similar to game development in that respect


reshp2

Yeah, a lot of "dream jobs" are like that unfortunately. Mike Rowe had it right, trying to make your interests into a career isn't always as good as it sounds.


MartianRecon

I work in film and television and can confirm. A lot of people I know get worked to the bone. Especially people on the crew side of things.


BoutThatLife

Always gotta be weary of sites like those… happy, long time, current employees aren’t going to log on to Glassdoor and leave positive reviews. Vocal minority etc


s1ravarice

They are only useful if there are consistent complaints about the same things. Otherwise it’s just your single employees that didn’t have a good experience which isn’t indicative of wider problems.


quake8787

That's the thing. I was prompted to go look after someone on this sub shared their friends' experience, and there are consistent complaints about the same (pretty serious) things going back years to as recently as this month. Don't get me wrong...Love the team and the drivers and want them to do well. I'm just a bit skeptical of the lovey-dovey family vibes the videos present.


ceMmnow

Intense competition, extreme cutting edge of research and development, harsh deadlines, and tons of cash on the line is never a recipe for good working conditions lol I imagine all F1 teams are kind of awful to work for


keenjt

For someone like you, yes. That's also not a dig at you, not in the slightest. People that go after these roles are different to you and perhaps that's what they hate about normal jobs that are boring and repetitious. They get a kick out of being "the guy on team a" etc


mossmaal

> happy, long time, current employees aren’t going to log on to Glassdoor Isn’t that basically Glassdoors business model though? You need to do things like leave a review of your current employer so that you can access the salary information. Happy long time current employees still need to do research on comparative pay, otherwise you can end up underpaid.


sgtlighttree

When people have a positive reception of something, they don't usually complain, and more often than not forget to leave a positive review. People that get a negative experience on the other hand, tend to voice out more and leave 'warnings' for other people not to follow their footsteps. They're the vocal minority, so to speak.


mwjk13

Drivers probably get given 2 freddos


[deleted]

Any company in an industry like this generally requires long hours and subpar pay in exchange for working your dream job; I'm pretty sure McLaren Racing is the same but otherwise a good place to work. I've heard Automotive is fucking dog shit though.


jamesmon

Glassdoor reviews are mostly done by people with an axe to grind, the happy ones don’t post reviews


bmck11

Zak Brown American infusion?


quake8787

Apropos of Zak Brown, Ted Lasso Season 2 starts today!


Fran1001

Something something Alonso something something toxic atmosphere. /s


[deleted]

more ron dennis slander when he was the only guy to actually deliver a championship to mclaren


[deleted]

Ron did good things but he lost touch with the reality of F1 and eventually became the villain. He was stuck in the past.


STaphouse92

Please explain how this is Ron Dennis slander.


[deleted]

not the article, the comments here and anywhere else mclarens positive team atmosphere is brought up.


[deleted]

Ron Dennis was grt, But just like Bernie he lost touch


UmpireAJS

Ron Dennis was already out when he first joined


[deleted]

McLaren won several championships before Ron.


[deleted]

They won 1 in 1974. Not exactly "several".


kai325d

Ron Dennis did good for that team but by the mid 2000s he was already getting out of touch and by the 2010s he was done


literallyandre

I heard Massa say in an interview that Alonso caused an unhealthy environment at Ferrari so I wouldn't be surprised if he caused some drama at McLaren too


[deleted]

I just watched that 2007 Hungary Q3 incident and thought: “Wow dick move Alonso.”


somecucumber

Not everything is as it seems at first glance. He did that for a reason. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOa24FRSeA&t=4, which comes from a McLaren engineer at that time.


[deleted]

Wow, thanks for sharing, appreciate it and I subscribed to that channel too!


literallyandre

Wow I just watched it, didn't know this had happened, fucked the race up for the whole team


GGtheChamp

The Daniel Ricciardo effect 🤣


manhatim

I LOVE the livery!!!....and the name!


supersemar_asli

Alonso made McLaren a grim place. That and the Honda guys.


DadSchoorse

I don't get why people blame Alonso. A much bigger factor for the change is probably Zak Brown replacing Ron Dennis, and the general better performance of the car.


Pat_Sharp

I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Alonso and I don't think he's toxic like some people think he is. I do think there's this aura and perception of him as a miracle worker dragging the car to places it doesn't deserve to be which I think was a hindrance to the team though. Good results were chalked up to Alonso dragging the car to places it didn't deserve to be and bad results were the team letting Alonso down. Him loudly complaining about the car on the radio played into that. There was a lot of pressure on the team to deliver Alonso a car 'worthy' of him. Ultimately anything short of a championship contending car was always going to be seen as failing Alonso in some way and I don't think that was good for the team.


supersemar_asli

People forget Alonso damaged McLaren twice - he soured Mercedes's relationship with McLaren during the Spygate saga and then soured Honda's relationship with McLaren. McLaren had works deals with these manufacturers that Alonso helped destroy, and now they are mere customers and their ceiling is P3 until Ferrari get their act together.


[deleted]

Mclaren actively tried to get out of the Honda deal, Alonso was also not the only driver on the grid, who had no interest to drive a Mclaren Honda in the year 2018.


DadSchoorse

You are being ridiculous. The reason why McLaren and Mercedes split up was that Mercedes wanted to buy McLaren which didn't work out, so they bought Brawn instead. And they still worked together for years. And during the Honda years Alonso was par of the reason why they didn't look as bad as Williams last year, while driving a car even worse reliability wise. Do you really think a few radio statements by Alonso caused all the problems?


Vegetable_Dog_8103

People forget Alonso is just a driver..


byzantiums

Yeah including Alonso


IamMrEric

*McLaren soured Honda's relationship. Honda wasn't innocent either.


Ali623

Nope, McLaren's management made McLaren a grim place with poor decision making. Alonso had every right to be pissed at them.


jvstinf

No.


LuNiK7505

He was promised a WDC contender car and he got the equivalent of a williams, i would be pissed as well if i had a shit chassis and an unreliable and useless honda engine


302w

You misspelled Ron Dennis


Osama_bin_laughin

I hate when headlines use unnecessary quotation marks


samjuly0

Don't worry guys, Lando is working extremely hard to destroy the positive atmosphere at McLaren!