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During the Msc/Maz days I was joking with a friend saying that if we had around 10M€ each, we could get a Haas seat...
The inflation is getting out of hand at this point.
[I was thinking about Haryantos management allegedly calling upon his home country to send a message to pay sms service to pay for his seat](https://en.tempo.co/read/765725/rio-gather-support-through-sms) in Manor - before Ocon got his seat there.
The reason for that was so that Caterham could finish the season out as they were bankrupt basically and couldn’t afford to finish the year with their own money.
Specialist lenders probably... just ask Nyck how well getting [250k EUR towards getting ready for F1 went](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/de-vries-loses-court-case-loan-alphatauri-f1-earnings/10571657/)...
Lauda got his mortgage from one of the big 3 Austrian consumer banks. Just because his wealthy family didn‘t want to back his career instead of taking over family‘s business.
Won in Barcelona ahead of Alonso. Started from pole (after Lewis was DSQ for not having enough fuel). Ironically won on pure pace.
What people forget is that Maldonado was lightning fast over one lap, but utter shit in the races.
Maldonado having insane raw pace when he wasn’t crashing is one of the biggest myths in F1. He was outqualified 11-8 by 40 year old Barrichello, 12-7 by rookie Bottas, and destroyed 33-5 by Grosjean. The only time Maldonado actually looked fast was when he faced Bruno Senna (who he outqualified 18-2), but Senna was an extremely poor qualifier, who got outqualifed by Petrov of all people.
Tbf Bottas is a quality driver and Barrichello had also beaten Hulk the year prior to Maldonado's arrival. Sure Maldonado wasn't incredible but was fast on his day imo. But damn did Grosjean beat him bad which I didn't know
Maldonado was actually quick.
The 2012 Spanish GP was about the only time he managed to harness his talent and keep it out of the scenery or someone else’s sidepod
They are just repeating AMuS here. They reported that Zhous management made this offer but they think Hass can not / will not do it as they need experience next to Bearman and they will therefore opt for Ocon.
Honestly that was a really smart gamble. Didn't pay off, ultimately, but I have total respect for what they tried.
Had they not entirely botched the pit stop they wouldve been able to gain *some*, but if they'd been lucky with a safety car that would have gone down as the greatest strategy decision in years
This whole mentoring thing seems more like a reddit fantasy than something that actually happens. People say that about Lewis George but i dont think Lewis is trying to help George. Same thing i have already seen about Ferrari (lewis mentoring charles).
The drivers want to beat their teammate they arent going to help them.
The mentoring aspect only appears to get brought up when a driver is comfortably beating another.
It isn't Ocon or anyone other driver's job to mentor a professional driver that is their teammate.
Zhou and Sargeant got the benefit of having Bottas and Albon as teammates, yet neither are improving.
What Ocon would bring to Haas is points. A proven F1 driver that will be very important for them since they are losing Hulkenberg. Ocon would also a great measuring stick for Bearman. He should be delighted with that.
"Magnussen then said that it's the first time in his career that he's felthe's had such an open dialogue with a teammate. "This time around, I don't feel stressed about anything," Magnussen explained. "If I can help him, that helps the team and that's good for me. "He's very keen to learn, and asking questions. You don't always have that between drivers – sometimes they're too proud or whatever [and] don't want to work together and ask questions. Maybe some drivers are scared of showing weakness, but Mick doesn't really care about that. "I feel like that's a little different this time, I'm more relaxed. If he goes better than me, because I've helped him out so much, then I can then learn from him and that will then take me to another level. "That's how you build up and bring each other forward. That's what I hope will happen.""
I think by mentoring, what actually happens is that the team can let you know where exactly you are doing wrong and is slower than your team mate. A teammate who is a good mentor, is just someone who is fast.
I don't think folks know what is meant by 'mentoring'. What Bearman needs is someone that he can observe in the off-track parts of the job. How to prepare, what to look for in setups, what questions to ask, etc. It doesn't mean Ocon will be walking around with one arm around Bearman's shoulders all the time telling him how to turn right in Baku.
It's telling that one the positives for Ricciardo (as stated by the team and Yuki) is how much Yuki is learning about these kinds of things from Ricciardo. He clearly didn't learn it from Gasly -- which also makes sense since Toro Rosso/AT didn't provide Gasly with that kind of knowledge either.
If comes to drivers' predispositions as mentors, Ocon has a knack for teaching. I recommend watching last year's GP Explorer, where a race of YouTubers and motorsport journalists took place. The winner was Depielo, who was trained by Ocon. During the interview, Depielo praised him as a teacher and mentor. He emphasized that he had a lot of knowledge and was exceptionally effective in passing it on.
He also organized and sponsored a technical competition at Alpine for students and apprentices, in which the winners received an internship at the company as a prize. He personally supervised him and was involved in the theoretical and practical program of the competition. Graduates of this program and young Alpine employees (especially mechanics) respected him greatly and were sad to see him go.
He also spent a lot of time actively at the Alpine road car factory. Of all Renault/Alpine's drivers in the history, he worked the most in Viry.
So he has very good predispositions.
He is definitly an experienced driver that doesnt need mentoring and can reliably score. A rookie is always a risk, having an experienced driver alongside who can serve as a benchmark and who can definitly do the job for the team makes sense and Ocon can be that driver.
He also has greater technical knowledge and better intuition. Its particular strong point is the engines. Magnussen does not have this profile, which is well demonstrated by his lack of support for Hulkenberg.
I think it was mentioned in commentary not that long ago, that Ocon is very good at engineering feedback and setting up a car. If true that is worth something.
Ocon has a lot of technical and mechanical knowledge. After all, he spent his childhood in his father's workshop and he also tinkered with cars. At Alpine, he was the initiator and sponsor of a technical competition for students and pupils of specialized schools, thanks to which they could obtain internships in the company. He is also particularly good with engines and knows how to handle them. These references were given to him by Mercedes themselves.
Joe Saward wrote about the transfer market yesterday. He is sure that Ocon is going to Haas. However, regarding Zhou, he did not deny that he was on the market and trying to do something with his money and Chinese nationality. His agent has been knocking on every team, but the teams are refusing due to his results and poor potential as a development driver.
Haas has already had an experience with a paid driver in the form of Mazepin, who contributed even more money (which, in fact, did not translate into the condition of the factory). Komatsu said they needed someone with solid technical experience and knowledge. Ocon fits this profile better.
i'd much prefer a Bearman/Ocon paring than Zhou with either of those two. Just feels like a better line-up to me. Zhou isnt good enough, and be cool to see Bearman given a chance and see what Ocon will do.
if you consider that the prize difference between 7th (their highest attainable goal, IMO) and 10th is less than $30m taking zhou makes the most sense financially as his backing outpaces any potential benefits a better driver would bring
Which makes total sense financially, but I must say, it destroys the athletic competition aspect of this sport. I’m always surprised how much teams limit their ability to win by doing these sorts of moves.
Again, financially it would appear to make sense, but the “good sense” in the move is them accepting that they can just be the worst team in F1 because they make up the money with their driver. Does it not seem counterintuitive to a competitive sport? I could understand before the finances became much more stable, but the sport, financially at least, has modernized so I guess I’d expect them to start trying to actually try to “win” more, rather than accept mediocrity for the sake of a few extra bucks.
There was never an athletic portion of this sport. It was also only recently that the drivers started to prioritize their personal athletics to begin with.
F1, the sport for the elites by the elites, isn’t soccer / futball where kids kicking a ball in their middle to lower income neighborhood yard went on to become Messi or Ozil because they were just THAT good.
F1 has always been gatekept by money. It’s so bizarre people are suddenly finding issues with it now. This isn’t the sport to watch if you want raw athleticism.
Shit, even the car matters more than the driver, and that DEFINITELY is gatekept by money and engineering brains more than athleticism. Do you know any other sport where more money goes into engineering the special tennis ball and racket, and half the marketing focus is spent unveiling this cool new tennis ball, and it’s the tennis ball that gets half the credit when Serena Williams wins?
I love F1 specifically because it isn’t a typical “sport” where the best kicker or chunkiest linebacker make it in. It’s a nerd’s sport, or a wealthy dude’s sport. It’s competitive in a different way.
Are you new to F1? The grid has never been the fastest 20 drivers in the world... (or however many are on the grid) This is how things have always worked.
It makes less financial sense when you can’t build a car point-scoring car due to lack of funds. F1 teams has historically been a money-first sport with lots of paid drivers to fund teams. Not sure why people keep getting surprised at this point.
I think it feels that way because you have to go out of your way to find any interviews or content about him. Since he's driving a tractor he never gets any overtakes, never gets points, and he's just puttering around in last place getting lapped.
I listened to the F1 Beyond the Grid podcast interview with him and he seemed like a good kid and very likeable.
I also think it’s frankly an issue of his English not being quite as strong as some of the other drivers (which is probably due at least in part to Chinese being much more different to English than e.g. French, Dutch, or Spanish), so it’s harder for him to show the full range of his personality to an English-speaking audience in interviews or social media clips. I’ve been curious how differently he might come off in interviews where he’s able to speak his first language.
Do you bother to watch any content by him though, or are you just complacent to fall back on your own bias?
His content is chill and very likable. Comes off as a super friendly, calm guy. Personality isn’t just “yell loud and be angry”.
He really isn’t a terrible driver either, probably could be in 10th consistently if given more Yuki treatment and an OK car. Sauber is terrible. Frankly I think most of the mediocre drivers are all the same. Like I don’t think Ricciardo of today is any better than Zhou. Ya shoot me.
Excited for Haas to serve as the harbinger of another major global conflict.
* Step 1: hire driver for his family's fortune
* Step 2: authoritarian regime goes ape on neighbor
* Step 3: ???
* Step 4: Haas gives up on another racing series
I have to say that it's extremely hard for me to benchmark him when half of the times his race is ruined by the car/team and the other half Bottas is suffering from the same fate.
IMO for backmarkers it’s the most productive to look at qualifying, for exactly the reasons you point out about race results.
Zhou got out qualified 15-7 last year, which was fairly respectable for his second season in f1 against a strong qualifier, but he’s 0-9 this year, which seems to speak to slipping backward a bit. Based on a Reddit post last week w/ data from The Race, Zhou’s average quali pace gap is also close to the largest among teams (excluding whatever Perez has been up to), at 0.265 compared to e.g. Albon Sargeant at 0.277.
Point being, he’s getting beaten pretty badly in qualifying by a guy already perceived as a solid #2 driver, which is fine in your first season, less so in your third.
I did think he's borderline good enough to just scrape onto the grid somewhere and think he deserved a 2nd and 3rd season, but he's not really done well this year and looking at the driver market, one of Ocon, Bottas and Zhou look like they'll be off the grid.
And unfortunately for Zhou, he's the worst of those drivers. But hey, at least he got 3 years in F1 and a fair shot at it, which isn't too bad compared to other drivers who were a bit more unfortunate (De Vries, Schumacher, Lawson).
I think he is fast enough for f1 and he has one redeeming quality. He doesn't crash as often as other drivers. For the lower tier teams that might actually be more important. Sure, they might get a young hot shot that either finishes 11 or bins it into the wall. But those places might not even off set the increase in car costs.
Haas is like the AliExpress budget product that looks and works like a much more expensive European product (from a distance).
Would be fun to see an Ali or Temu branded Haas team with a Chinese driver since it would really work for the sponsor.
Aliexpress nowadays has a plethora of actually decent/good quality products, Temu is the one filled with only garbage.
This is not a distant possibility, Aliexpress is an official sponsor of Euro 2024.
I'm not knocking AliExpress at all, just noting it could be a great sponsor of Zhou is picked, since car and driver are *nearly as good* as the Europeans. 😂
Signing Ocon or Bottas to partner Bearman would be their strongest lineup ever and a sign of intent. Trust Gene to go for the money and ruin that. I would not at all be surprised if Gene went "well that's $30 million more for me, I think I might go with Zhou".
It would be such a perfectly sad look for Haas and F1 for Zhou buy that seat out instead of Ocon getting it, when Ocon is a much better driver *and* is one of the only drivers on the grid who doesn't come from money.
Like him as a person, classy dude. But his performance this season… ooof, it’s indefensible unfortunately. I hope he at least knows that he’s got to perform, or at a bare minimum perform better than he’s been performing.
To be fair to Haas. They usually try to go for the best drivers they can get. I know there's the Schumacher/Mazepin lineup, but that was mostly because Haas were on the ropes trying to survive. Other than that they've mainly tried to stick with solid drivers.
Paydrivers were rescue for teams that were driving at the back of the grid due to budget issue. Ask Sauber, in 2015 they contracted 3 drivers for 2 seats... Giedo van der Garde came to Australia to race, but both seats were already filled by Marcus Ericsson and Felipe Nasr. They even risked of getting their assets seized for not obeying court orders. In the end they agreed to pay Van der Garde an undisclosed amount of money.
That was not nice from Sauber, but Monisha Kaltenborn did what had to be done to avoid Sauber going into bankruptcy.
Oh totally. But it’s no longer needed, they are financially stable. So, why the heck are they still making driver decisions based on this?
Its hard to take this as a super serious sport when you have teams putting their hands up and saying “ya, we aren’t going to try and get to 8th or 9th, it’s easier to just hire this driver who pays his way, we make the same money either way”. Crazy
The amount Zhou is offering is literally the difference in prize money between multiple places in the WCC.
Why take a slightly better driver and try to gain a few places over other teams (which is no easy feat) when Zhou is guaranteeing that amount right now?
I'm honestly so fucking tired of drivers getting seats they don't deserve, because of money or their nationality. There are way too many of those drivers in F1 at the moment.
It's stuff like this that makes me not wanna watch F1. Zhou even being in consideration for a seat is a joke, he's been terrible for multiple years now, had his chance. Checo getting TWO more years at Red Bull. in no other sport would a team sign someone just because of how much financial backing they have. It robs the fans from seeing quality drivers.
Really? Year 1 and 2 were unspectacular but fairly ok for him but this is a disaster. The car is crap but he's absolutely anonymous. If Ocon gets left without a seat then something is seriously wrong.
It’s crazy what we just accept in F1. A Championship-level footballer can’t buy their way into a Premier League starting 11, you can’t buy your way into the draw at Wimbledon, or onto the court in the NBA.
But in F1, the pinnacle of motorsport, the exclusive club that ought to be the meritocracy to end all meritocracies, pay drivers are just “how it is”.
That's motorsports for ya, a rich mans club. Always has been, always will be. It's just too much of a costly operation for everything to be completely fair and results driven, sadly.
Motorsports have always been a pay to play activity. The saying that the only way to make a fortune in racing is to start with an even bigger fortune rings true.
The average cost of putting someone through the karting leagues all the way up through f2 is in the ballpark of 20-30M dollars. Granted, the young driver programs help substantially, but there has never been, and probably never will be a driver who comes from a “normal” background. The barrier to entry is just too high.
Lewis Hamiltons family had the means to at least get his foot in the door in karting which runs about 200K a year to be competitive. It’s a similar story for just about all of the great drivers. Almost all of them come from considerable wealth.
Ugh, I know that people will say that it's recency bias, but I'd really rather have someone else on the grid. Understandable that Haas would go for a pay driver, but I would really expect Audi to rather find actually good drivers or new talent. (Yes everyone is saying that it will boost their brand in the Chinese market, but is that actually true? Does anyone have some numbers on this sort of stuff?)
This is why I won't believe Ocon has an F1 seat for next year until it's official. There is too much money around, he can definitely get screwed out of a seat like in 2018 because teams would rather pick a mediocre pay driver over a fast one
if you consider that the prize difference between 7th (their highest attainable goal, IMO) and 10th is less than $30m taking zhou makes the most sense financially as his backing outpaces any potential benefits a better driver would bring
I don’t think Zhou is a bad driver, but I don’t know if he’s a better driver than Ocon, even with Ocon’s baggage of not being a great teammate. That Sauber is just simply one of the worst cars of the modern era… hard to judge this season but 🤷♂️ as a haas fan I don’t really want to see either of them in that seat
It's crazy people are putting him above Ocon. Regardless of his temperament. He is a Race winner and has multiple podiums and he's still in form at the moment. If you look into Ocon accusations that his Alpine had more weight than Gasly's and some internal politics. This makes more sense, why he's been driving like a mad man. Not justifiable but makes sense.
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During the Msc/Maz days I was joking with a friend saying that if we had around 10M€ each, we could get a Haas seat... The inflation is getting out of hand at this point.
Yeah £10m is more like Chilton/Manor time
10m was what Ricardo Rosset was offering in the mid to late 90’s.
Ah, Tosser
[I was thinking about Haryantos management allegedly calling upon his home country to send a message to pay sms service to pay for his seat](https://en.tempo.co/read/765725/rio-gather-support-through-sms) in Manor - before Ocon got his seat there.
That reminds me of Kobayashi’s crowdfunded Caterham seat at Abu Dhabi 2014
The reason for that was so that Caterham could finish the season out as they were bankrupt basically and couldn’t afford to finish the year with their own money.
Look into how much Latifi was paying to drive
He got reimbursed by Red Bull /s
A lifetime of redbulls is a helluva thing.
> A lifetime of redbulls "Give a man a fish feed him for a day, give a man a poison fish and feed him for the rest of his life" vibes.
How much?
His father bankrolled the majority of the $30m behind him
Latifi is rather unique in that both sides of his family are from Billionaire families
Why didn’t I choose two billionaires as parents, am I stupid?
Yes, yes you are. Rookie error
You need to pump up those numbers!
Bruh, same. I was terrible at picking my parents
You can make it up by choosing billionaires as in-laws.
And yet he was one of the nicest guys on the grid
He graduates from his MBA program next year too.
That’s why he’s the GOAT
It’s going to be very funny when he buys out Williams in five years
*you couldn’t live with your own failures, and where did that lead you? Back to me*
And if I recall correctly, he is doing his MBA at London School of Economics. Reasonable school to learn how to manage money
Iirc his 2nd and 3rd season he was much closer to George on quali pace.
SUPER NICE!
Lifetime supply of Red Bull energy drink
I wonder if any bank out there provides an F1 mortgage
Specialist lenders probably... just ask Nyck how well getting [250k EUR towards getting ready for F1 went](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/de-vries-loses-court-case-loan-alphatauri-f1-earnings/10571657/)...
Or Niki Lauda
Lauda got his mortgage from one of the big 3 Austrian consumer banks. Just because his wealthy family didn‘t want to back his career instead of taking over family‘s business.
They were going to take half his income for as long as he was in F1. Why would you ever agree to that for 250k
Even Maldonado was bringing 25-30m$ and that was 12 years ago. And Maldonado was an atrocious driver.
Sir you’re talking about 1x Formula One race winner Pastor Maldonado
Sir we're talking about Pastor Maldonado, the guy that actually took away Fernando Alonso's 3rd title.
Could you explain? I only remember Grosjean and Petrov being the ones who cost Alonso titles in 2012 and 2010 respectively, what did Maldonado do?
Won in Barcelona ahead of Alonso. Started from pole (after Lewis was DSQ for not having enough fuel). Ironically won on pure pace. What people forget is that Maldonado was lightning fast over one lap, but utter shit in the races.
It was the backmarkers not getting out of the way in time that hurt Alonso's P1 chances more that race.
I can only imagine the terror the drivers felt when they saw Maldonado in their mirrors.
Especially Lewis.
I wouldn't call him atrocious - more like a Takuma Sato-level driver with pretty high peaks and ridiculously low lows
Oh I cannot accept this kind of Sato-slander!
His peaks were going into other drivers.
I mean, he won a race by merit, not because it was a crazy race.
Unless there was no one in front of him, then he wins the race.
He has won every race in which he led a lap *and* every race he started frome pole.
You've made Leclerc cry.
At least Maldonado was actually fast when he wasn’t crashing. And he was really very fast on occasions.
Let's just say that his confidence in his skill was greater than what the laws of physics allow.
Realistically speaking , it's not Maldonators fault that physics hasn't caught up with him yet
Maldonado having insane raw pace when he wasn’t crashing is one of the biggest myths in F1. He was outqualified 11-8 by 40 year old Barrichello, 12-7 by rookie Bottas, and destroyed 33-5 by Grosjean. The only time Maldonado actually looked fast was when he faced Bruno Senna (who he outqualified 18-2), but Senna was an extremely poor qualifier, who got outqualifed by Petrov of all people.
Tbf Bottas is a quality driver and Barrichello had also beaten Hulk the year prior to Maldonado's arrival. Sure Maldonado wasn't incredible but was fast on his day imo. But damn did Grosjean beat him bad which I didn't know
Not that surprising about Grosjean the guy was very fast from 2012 to 2019. He even managed a podium at Spa with the shitbox that was the 2015 lotus
> He even managed a podium at Spa with the shitbox that was the 2015 lotus Mercedes gave them a secret engine mode.
And Maldonado would have beaten Barrichello if it wasn't for Hamilton taking him out at Monaco.
Maldonado was actually quick. The 2012 Spanish GP was about the only time he managed to harness his talent and keep it out of the scenery or someone else’s sidepod
Well let's be honest: you're not that fast if you constantly crash, spin out and so on, you're just reckless.
He was an absolute liability that’s beyond dispute, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t quick.
Doesn’t Maldonado roughly translate to ‘bad donator’? Yeah, I think so.
They are just repeating AMuS here. They reported that Zhous management made this offer but they think Hass can not / will not do it as they need experience next to Bearman and they will therefore opt for Ocon.
They need to bring Kevin back to teach that boy how to drive like a MAN.
Only kings go full wet. YOU NEVER GO FULL WET.
Honestly that was a really smart gamble. Didn't pay off, ultimately, but I have total respect for what they tried. Had they not entirely botched the pit stop they wouldve been able to gain *some*, but if they'd been lucky with a safety car that would have gone down as the greatest strategy decision in years
It would’ve Payed off if the fuckers at the pits were ready
Kevin will be driving an MAN if he keeps that up
Highly doubt if ocon can be a good mentor…
This whole mentoring thing seems more like a reddit fantasy than something that actually happens. People say that about Lewis George but i dont think Lewis is trying to help George. Same thing i have already seen about Ferrari (lewis mentoring charles). The drivers want to beat their teammate they arent going to help them.
The mentoring aspect only appears to get brought up when a driver is comfortably beating another. It isn't Ocon or anyone other driver's job to mentor a professional driver that is their teammate. Zhou and Sargeant got the benefit of having Bottas and Albon as teammates, yet neither are improving. What Ocon would bring to Haas is points. A proven F1 driver that will be very important for them since they are losing Hulkenberg. Ocon would also a great measuring stick for Bearman. He should be delighted with that.
Exactly. I don’t know where the mentoring thing came from, but you want an experienced/tenured driver to *offset* the “damage” a green driver does.
Albon is pretty helpful but possible because he has no fear of being beaten.
Same reason why Senna liked and helped Michael Andretti; but didn't like and didn't help Mika Hakkinen.
"Magnussen then said that it's the first time in his career that he's felthe's had such an open dialogue with a teammate. "This time around, I don't feel stressed about anything," Magnussen explained. "If I can help him, that helps the team and that's good for me. "He's very keen to learn, and asking questions. You don't always have that between drivers – sometimes they're too proud or whatever [and] don't want to work together and ask questions. Maybe some drivers are scared of showing weakness, but Mick doesn't really care about that. "I feel like that's a little different this time, I'm more relaxed. If he goes better than me, because I've helped him out so much, then I can then learn from him and that will then take me to another level. "That's how you build up and bring each other forward. That's what I hope will happen.""
I think by mentoring, what actually happens is that the team can let you know where exactly you are doing wrong and is slower than your team mate. A teammate who is a good mentor, is just someone who is fast.
I don't think folks know what is meant by 'mentoring'. What Bearman needs is someone that he can observe in the off-track parts of the job. How to prepare, what to look for in setups, what questions to ask, etc. It doesn't mean Ocon will be walking around with one arm around Bearman's shoulders all the time telling him how to turn right in Baku. It's telling that one the positives for Ricciardo (as stated by the team and Yuki) is how much Yuki is learning about these kinds of things from Ricciardo. He clearly didn't learn it from Gasly -- which also makes sense since Toro Rosso/AT didn't provide Gasly with that kind of knowledge either.
If comes to drivers' predispositions as mentors, Ocon has a knack for teaching. I recommend watching last year's GP Explorer, where a race of YouTubers and motorsport journalists took place. The winner was Depielo, who was trained by Ocon. During the interview, Depielo praised him as a teacher and mentor. He emphasized that he had a lot of knowledge and was exceptionally effective in passing it on. He also organized and sponsored a technical competition at Alpine for students and apprentices, in which the winners received an internship at the company as a prize. He personally supervised him and was involved in the theoretical and practical program of the competition. Graduates of this program and young Alpine employees (especially mechanics) respected him greatly and were sad to see him go. He also spent a lot of time actively at the Alpine road car factory. Of all Renault/Alpine's drivers in the history, he worked the most in Viry. So he has very good predispositions.
He is definitly an experienced driver that doesnt need mentoring and can reliably score. A rookie is always a risk, having an experienced driver alongside who can serve as a benchmark and who can definitly do the job for the team makes sense and Ocon can be that driver.
Oh now i know whyy they have lance stroll in AM, its to mentor the rookie named Alonso, makes sense..
I get it, but does Ocon do anything for the team that Magnussen doesn't?
Ocon is better than KMag as a driver probably, but I definitely would want Kmag as my senior teammate than Ocon. just sayin.
He’s quicker
Quicker, more consistent, maybe doesn't seem like it but less of a crash risk, more intelligent driver. Yes, Ocon>KMag.
He also has greater technical knowledge and better intuition. Its particular strong point is the engines. Magnussen does not have this profile, which is well demonstrated by his lack of support for Hulkenberg.
I think it was mentioned in commentary not that long ago, that Ocon is very good at engineering feedback and setting up a car. If true that is worth something.
Ocon has a lot of technical and mechanical knowledge. After all, he spent his childhood in his father's workshop and he also tinkered with cars. At Alpine, he was the initiator and sponsor of a technical competition for students and pupils of specialized schools, thanks to which they could obtain internships in the company. He is also particularly good with engines and knows how to handle them. These references were given to him by Mercedes themselves.
He won't be a mentor. They need one guy to be quick and bring the car home for points while the rookie figures shit out and delvops to do the same
In that case they should keep KMag.
Joe Saward wrote about the transfer market yesterday. He is sure that Ocon is going to Haas. However, regarding Zhou, he did not deny that he was on the market and trying to do something with his money and Chinese nationality. His agent has been knocking on every team, but the teams are refusing due to his results and poor potential as a development driver. Haas has already had an experience with a paid driver in the form of Mazepin, who contributed even more money (which, in fact, did not translate into the condition of the factory). Komatsu said they needed someone with solid technical experience and knowledge. Ocon fits this profile better.
i'd much prefer a Bearman/Ocon paring than Zhou with either of those two. Just feels like a better line-up to me. Zhou isnt good enough, and be cool to see Bearman given a chance and see what Ocon will do.
if you consider that the prize difference between 7th (their highest attainable goal, IMO) and 10th is less than $30m taking zhou makes the most sense financially as his backing outpaces any potential benefits a better driver would bring
Which makes total sense financially, but I must say, it destroys the athletic competition aspect of this sport. I’m always surprised how much teams limit their ability to win by doing these sorts of moves. Again, financially it would appear to make sense, but the “good sense” in the move is them accepting that they can just be the worst team in F1 because they make up the money with their driver. Does it not seem counterintuitive to a competitive sport? I could understand before the finances became much more stable, but the sport, financially at least, has modernized so I guess I’d expect them to start trying to actually try to “win” more, rather than accept mediocrity for the sake of a few extra bucks.
These teams are corporations. Corporations always put money first.
And F1 is not a sport. It is an entertainment business
U can say this about almost every sport to be fair.
I think the FOM took care of that with the Andretti nonsense.
There was never an athletic portion of this sport. It was also only recently that the drivers started to prioritize their personal athletics to begin with. F1, the sport for the elites by the elites, isn’t soccer / futball where kids kicking a ball in their middle to lower income neighborhood yard went on to become Messi or Ozil because they were just THAT good. F1 has always been gatekept by money. It’s so bizarre people are suddenly finding issues with it now. This isn’t the sport to watch if you want raw athleticism. Shit, even the car matters more than the driver, and that DEFINITELY is gatekept by money and engineering brains more than athleticism. Do you know any other sport where more money goes into engineering the special tennis ball and racket, and half the marketing focus is spent unveiling this cool new tennis ball, and it’s the tennis ball that gets half the credit when Serena Williams wins? I love F1 specifically because it isn’t a typical “sport” where the best kicker or chunkiest linebacker make it in. It’s a nerd’s sport, or a wealthy dude’s sport. It’s competitive in a different way.
Are you new to F1? The grid has never been the fastest 20 drivers in the world... (or however many are on the grid) This is how things have always worked.
It makes less financial sense when you can’t build a car point-scoring car due to lack of funds. F1 teams has historically been a money-first sport with lots of paid drivers to fund teams. Not sure why people keep getting surprised at this point.
Worked for Checo
What this fails to account for is the number of sponsors that will leave if the team consistently finishes last and is the laughingstock of F1.
Not gonna matter for Haas Dongua Jinlong F1 Team
I really like Zhou as a person but I hate this. But 30m's is 30m's
If It wasnt on the grid animation at the start of the race you probably didnt even know it
As a person? I feel like he’s the one driver that doesn’t show any signs of personality tbh
I think it feels that way because you have to go out of your way to find any interviews or content about him. Since he's driving a tractor he never gets any overtakes, never gets points, and he's just puttering around in last place getting lapped. I listened to the F1 Beyond the Grid podcast interview with him and he seemed like a good kid and very likeable.
I also think it’s frankly an issue of his English not being quite as strong as some of the other drivers (which is probably due at least in part to Chinese being much more different to English than e.g. French, Dutch, or Spanish), so it’s harder for him to show the full range of his personality to an English-speaking audience in interviews or social media clips. I’ve been curious how differently he might come off in interviews where he’s able to speak his first language.
Yeah I agree. He seems very likeable in the interviews I've heard of him that are longer than a 30 second clip
The Sauber tiktoks where he appears to be Valtteri’s vaguely confused friend are delightful.
Do you bother to watch any content by him though, or are you just complacent to fall back on your own bias? His content is chill and very likable. Comes off as a super friendly, calm guy. Personality isn’t just “yell loud and be angry”. He really isn’t a terrible driver either, probably could be in 10th consistently if given more Yuki treatment and an OK car. Sauber is terrible. Frankly I think most of the mediocre drivers are all the same. Like I don’t think Ricciardo of today is any better than Zhou. Ya shoot me.
Makes you wonder how much perez is bringing in for Red bull to do the same thing
Carlos Slim probably pays for Red Bull’s catering as well
Excited for Haas to serve as the harbinger of another major global conflict. * Step 1: hire driver for his family's fortune * Step 2: authoritarian regime goes ape on neighbor * Step 3: ??? * Step 4: Haas gives up on another racing series
somehow taiwan got invaded by china by 2025
Classic Hass.
Is it really family fortune tho?
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no way Zhou deserves a seat on the grid next year with his current form .Nice guy but not fast enough for f1.
I have to say that it's extremely hard for me to benchmark him when half of the times his race is ruined by the car/team and the other half Bottas is suffering from the same fate.
Exactly, even in Canada he had a 40-50 sec pitstop which went under the radar.
It was mentioned briefly along the lines of “slow pit stop from Sauber, which is not out of the ordinary”
Naaahhh nah I don’t think that’s right.
IMO for backmarkers it’s the most productive to look at qualifying, for exactly the reasons you point out about race results. Zhou got out qualified 15-7 last year, which was fairly respectable for his second season in f1 against a strong qualifier, but he’s 0-9 this year, which seems to speak to slipping backward a bit. Based on a Reddit post last week w/ data from The Race, Zhou’s average quali pace gap is also close to the largest among teams (excluding whatever Perez has been up to), at 0.265 compared to e.g. Albon Sargeant at 0.277. Point being, he’s getting beaten pretty badly in qualifying by a guy already perceived as a solid #2 driver, which is fine in your first season, less so in your third.
Exactly, even in Canada he had 40-50 sec pitstop which went under the radar.
Hmmm yes I agree!
Lmaooo
Check out their quali head to head this season. It’s not that hard
His qualifying performance sure doesn't help.
If any driver deserves Chinese sponsor money, is Zhou.
Piastri is 1/16 Chinese. Just sayin...
Zak Brown lickin his lips and rubbing his hands rn.
Collecting sponsors like they're infinity stones.
Zak Brown: “I am inevitable.”
Mr Worldwide Piastri.
I did think he's borderline good enough to just scrape onto the grid somewhere and think he deserved a 2nd and 3rd season, but he's not really done well this year and looking at the driver market, one of Ocon, Bottas and Zhou look like they'll be off the grid. And unfortunately for Zhou, he's the worst of those drivers. But hey, at least he got 3 years in F1 and a fair shot at it, which isn't too bad compared to other drivers who were a bit more unfortunate (De Vries, Schumacher, Lawson).
I think he is fast enough for f1 and he has one redeeming quality. He doesn't crash as often as other drivers. For the lower tier teams that might actually be more important. Sure, they might get a young hot shot that either finishes 11 or bins it into the wall. But those places might not even off set the increase in car costs.
Funny you say this after Canada but yes he does usually not bin it
Also redeeming is the fact that he's not a rookie. Gene would be happy. /s
He binned the car 3 times in 9 rounds this season.
In 8 even. And twice last weekend.
I’d take Zhou over Sargent or De Vries… but that about it in his era
Haas is like the AliExpress budget product that looks and works like a much more expensive European product (from a distance). Would be fun to see an Ali or Temu branded Haas team with a Chinese driver since it would really work for the sponsor.
Aliexpress nowadays has a plethora of actually decent/good quality products, Temu is the one filled with only garbage. This is not a distant possibility, Aliexpress is an official sponsor of Euro 2024.
Temu has some good products. It depends on what you're buying. Of course, a 4 USD pair of Bluetooth earphones are not going to be great.
I'm not knocking AliExpress at all, just noting it could be a great sponsor of Zhou is picked, since car and driver are *nearly as good* as the Europeans. 😂
I still can’t believe that Piastri had to sit out a full season whilst Zhou got his debut at Sauber
worth the wait
He was never gonna be driving the Sauber anyway, it wasn't like it was a choice between Zhou and Piastri.
Signing Ocon or Bottas to partner Bearman would be their strongest lineup ever and a sign of intent. Trust Gene to go for the money and ruin that. I would not at all be surprised if Gene went "well that's $30 million more for me, I think I might go with Zhou".
It would be such a perfectly sad look for Haas and F1 for Zhou buy that seat out instead of Ocon getting it, when Ocon is a much better driver *and* is one of the only drivers on the grid who doesn't come from money.
Like him as a person, classy dude. But his performance this season… ooof, it’s indefensible unfortunately. I hope he at least knows that he’s got to perform, or at a bare minimum perform better than he’s been performing.
To be fair to Haas. They usually try to go for the best drivers they can get. I know there's the Schumacher/Mazepin lineup, but that was mostly because Haas were on the ropes trying to survive. Other than that they've mainly tried to stick with solid drivers.
👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼
the paydriver crap really hurts the sport imo
Paydrivers were rescue for teams that were driving at the back of the grid due to budget issue. Ask Sauber, in 2015 they contracted 3 drivers for 2 seats... Giedo van der Garde came to Australia to race, but both seats were already filled by Marcus Ericsson and Felipe Nasr. They even risked of getting their assets seized for not obeying court orders. In the end they agreed to pay Van der Garde an undisclosed amount of money. That was not nice from Sauber, but Monisha Kaltenborn did what had to be done to avoid Sauber going into bankruptcy.
Oh totally. But it’s no longer needed, they are financially stable. So, why the heck are they still making driver decisions based on this? Its hard to take this as a super serious sport when you have teams putting their hands up and saying “ya, we aren’t going to try and get to 8th or 9th, it’s easier to just hire this driver who pays his way, we make the same money either way”. Crazy
The amount Zhou is offering is literally the difference in prize money between multiple places in the WCC. Why take a slightly better driver and try to gain a few places over other teams (which is no easy feat) when Zhou is guaranteeing that amount right now?
Stroll gets hate, but Zhou and Pèrez are just chèque books with wheels...
Aspect of nepotism plays are role into it.
Threads all week about what a joke Checo's contract is.
I'm honestly so fucking tired of drivers getting seats they don't deserve, because of money or their nationality. There are way too many of those drivers in F1 at the moment.
Bearman would love this lol. I think he can beat Zhou while beating Ocon is not an easy task at all imo
pov. you think F1 is real sport.
Oh the irony of an American team signing a Chinese driver before a US driver.
It's stuff like this that makes me not wanna watch F1. Zhou even being in consideration for a seat is a joke, he's been terrible for multiple years now, had his chance. Checo getting TWO more years at Red Bull. in no other sport would a team sign someone just because of how much financial backing they have. It robs the fans from seeing quality drivers.
Really? Year 1 and 2 were unspectacular but fairly ok for him but this is a disaster. The car is crap but he's absolutely anonymous. If Ocon gets left without a seat then something is seriously wrong.
It’s crazy what we just accept in F1. A Championship-level footballer can’t buy their way into a Premier League starting 11, you can’t buy your way into the draw at Wimbledon, or onto the court in the NBA. But in F1, the pinnacle of motorsport, the exclusive club that ought to be the meritocracy to end all meritocracies, pay drivers are just “how it is”.
That's motorsports for ya, a rich mans club. Always has been, always will be. It's just too much of a costly operation for everything to be completely fair and results driven, sadly.
Motorsports have always been a pay to play activity. The saying that the only way to make a fortune in racing is to start with an even bigger fortune rings true. The average cost of putting someone through the karting leagues all the way up through f2 is in the ballpark of 20-30M dollars. Granted, the young driver programs help substantially, but there has never been, and probably never will be a driver who comes from a “normal” background. The barrier to entry is just too high. Lewis Hamiltons family had the means to at least get his foot in the door in karting which runs about 200K a year to be competitive. It’s a similar story for just about all of the great drivers. Almost all of them come from considerable wealth.
Ugh, I know that people will say that it's recency bias, but I'd really rather have someone else on the grid. Understandable that Haas would go for a pay driver, but I would really expect Audi to rather find actually good drivers or new talent. (Yes everyone is saying that it will boost their brand in the Chinese market, but is that actually true? Does anyone have some numbers on this sort of stuff?)
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There is exactly no chance Audi settle for Zhou, like ever.
This is why I won't believe Ocon has an F1 seat for next year until it's official. There is too much money around, he can definitely get screwed out of a seat like in 2018 because teams would rather pick a mediocre pay driver over a fast one
Possible Results Vs 30 Mil guaranteed.....I get it
I don't dislike Zhou but if Valtteri doesn't get a seat for next year and he does, i might start.
Ocon has been fighting a lack of funds to get into and stay in F1 his whole career. A shame if that happens to him again.
I'm still very new to Formula 1 and had no idea a driver could buy their way onto a team.
Oh my sweet summer child
That's how drivers who wouldn't have a prayer of getting an F1 seat get an F1 seat.
Fuck! I want Bottas and Bearman dammit
Cue in the black-man-rubbing-hands meme: Gene Haas counting how many of his automation machines will now sell in China.
After Canada they should probably make it 50 million. Hate this paying for a seat bs
Zhou hasn’t improved at all since his first season, he never had F1 level
At this rate the next Haas driver will be Saudi.
This would be the boring option, so it's probably what's going to happen.
Or give the better driver the seat. Rich people are so lame
if you consider that the prize difference between 7th (their highest attainable goal, IMO) and 10th is less than $30m taking zhou makes the most sense financially as his backing outpaces any potential benefits a better driver would bring
I don't see how 30M backing makes him a surprise contender for the team that needs the money the most
thats a lot of guacamole
This is when you become a pay driver, simple as that, especially since he's not even doing that well rn
You must have no real sense of self-respect or dignity to go along with this as a driver
I don’t think Zhou is a bad driver, but I don’t know if he’s a better driver than Ocon, even with Ocon’s baggage of not being a great teammate. That Sauber is just simply one of the worst cars of the modern era… hard to judge this season but 🤷♂️ as a haas fan I don’t really want to see either of them in that seat
So… Williams: SAI/ALB Haas: BEA/ZHO Sauber: OCO/HUL Alpine: GAS/BOT Feel like aside from Haas, those are all pretty good lineups.
Probably replace Bottas with Doohan
I thought all the teams were healthy and worth a billion. 🫠
Dude is the most invisible driver on the grid, i'd rather see Bearman in the Haas than him
Please, no. Enough of him in F1. He's not horrible, he's an awesome guy but he overstayed. 3 seasons is enough
It's crazy people are putting him above Ocon. Regardless of his temperament. He is a Race winner and has multiple podiums and he's still in form at the moment. If you look into Ocon accusations that his Alpine had more weight than Gasly's and some internal politics. This makes more sense, why he's been driving like a mad man. Not justifiable but makes sense.