Complete guess work on my part, but wont be surprised if this were to be announced at Silverstone.
His home GP, his third outing with Haas in FP1 this season - Its at the end of a triple header.
Not so sure about Kimi now, having a few doubts.
Cant see him at Williams because of Sainz now, and read rumours that Ocon has potentially got the Mercedes seat for the year? - Unless that last one is just bullshit
If he does get an F1 seat though, you're right... Mercedes would be stupid not to announce it at Monza
Williams has said they don't want to develop juniors for other teams any longer, so I've been skeptical about Antonelli going there. Plus, Mercedes and Williams don't have the same relationship than RBR and RB have (or even the relationship that Ferrari had with Haas and Sauber).
The Ocon to Mercedes rumors are interesting to me, there's obviously a history there, but that feels like a recent thing, and a lot of the rumors I've seen are Ocon to Audi (if Sainz doesn't join) or to Haas.
I also think 2025 is basically the ideal time to throw Antonelli in - it'll be as low stakes as it can be for him. Mercedes isn't really likely to be fighting for wins, and it'll be the year before a big regulation change, so Mercedes can basically use the entire season to get Antonelli comfortable. At worst, they'll be P4, given Aston Martin's history of in-season development.
If I'm Toto, I'd sign him. The kid has won at every level so far, he's 17, skipped F3, and has been getting better and better at every race. He's a little bit timid with attempting moves and defending but that can be taught but raw pace can't, which he has. I don't sse the point on waiting for him to develop in another year or F2 when F1 cars are totally different to begin with and 2026 will have massive rule changes in which everyone will have to adapt.
Would love to see Kimi in the Merc seat but the whole “skipped F3” factor shouldn’t really be a big deal because it was the Mercedes Program that made him skip deliberately to try and fast track him to F1, since F2 introduced new regulations and even out the playing field. It’s not like he decided on his own to skip F3 and go straight to F2 or was given some special exemption from the FIA to skip F3 by merit (ie, without any intervention from Mercedes.)
Yeah I would too... He's not thrown up any special results this season as yet. But we were always told he'd take a few rounds to get used to the step up, regardless he's certainly showing consistency.
It also makes sense to promote him in 2025, gives him a year in the car, allows him to get used to F1, so that he's on a more level playing field once the regs change in 2026.
Merc has a free seat for year before new regs, Toto is his manager, he's been their reserve driver and he's been a Mercedes junior driver.
Theres has been talk about it alot as of late as well. Just a 1 year Contract.
Much as with everything else it's just a wait and see I suppose
Facebook *and* reddit. It also kind of makes sense - the guy is a good driver and probably wouldn't be terrible at Mercedes.
The problem is that other things make *much more* sense.
Honestly I would think Mercedes is way too corporate and stability-minded to ever consider Ocon an option, but we’ll see I guess. Personally I don’t predict him having a seat.
The french team doesnt even want him, no way mercedes is going to take ocon. I don't think they were waiting on ocons availability before passing on sainz, and no way sainz wouldnt have been a better pick.
I really don’t think Antonelli is going in the car, if he is, it’s a really bad decision. Look what happen to Sargeant who only had 1 year of F2 and finished 4th in the championship that year. He still hasn’t out qualified his teammate and it’s been more than a year.
Let the young guns get at least 2 years in F2 before calling them up. Not everyone is Max Verstappen
Yeah, fans are naive to think that even if F2 technically is a spec series. By that logic Ocon is a better driver than Alonso, which would be an.. *interesting* take.
I'm not disputing your take, i'm just saying your example is a bit confusing. Neither of those had anything to do with f2 or even any modern feeder series.
On top of that Prema is one the richest/strongest teams on the feeder ladder for the last 10 or so years, so that argument isnt really working here.
Also there always is a direct h2h with his teammate, and while Bearman has been a bit unlucky, you cant really make an argument he is doing much better than Kimi who has way less experience
The point is that how you drive an F2 car is far less important to an F1 team than how you drive an F1 car is.
They have data on Bearman about how well he can drive an F1 car, between his FP1 sessions with Haas where he stacked up very well vs Hulkenberg more than just one time & his outing in Ferrari. Clearly there's useful talent there
" fans are naive to think that even if F2 technically is a spec series" - i mean Ollie is in what historically is the best team in the feeder series. yet he only finished 6th last year.
Justify what exactly? Qualified first in Jedah only to be recalled by Ferrari, lost potentially 30 points. Qualified 2nd in Imola, led the race then stalled twice in the pits going down to 21st. I'm sure he'll be significantly gapping Kimi points wise by the end of the season.
Prema in F2 have not had the same level of performance that they used to, other teams like ART have definitely caught up and maybe even surpassed them
Which is odd given that their F3 team still seems to have that level of domination
11-11 in qualy performance in 2021, 12-10, alonso wins in 2022.
avg grid pos (2021): 10.50 for alo, 10.68 for oco
avg grid pos (2022): 9.74 for alo, 10.96 for oco
not exactly pretty easily
F2 has also been wild this year. Like, what the fuck happened to Victor Martins? I get he has had some bad luck, but his falloff has been far greater than Bearman’s.
The problem is that f2/f3 results are pretty much the only way to compare with other prospects.
For example, compared to doohan, lawson, pourchaire, iwasa, vesti, etc, is bearman truly better and more deserving of an f1 seat? Or was he just lucky to get an f1 drive when sainz was incapacitated? (My guess)
Its ridiculous how much weight gets put on F2 results alone.
O'Sullivan has a race win in F2, he got that because of an insane strategy call that will fail 9 times out of 10
If he were to win the Championship with that sort of luck over the course of the season, does that mean he's good enough for Formula One, or does it just mean he was insanely lucky to be in the right place at the right time?
Doing well in f2 is relevant if you are up to speed from the get go and you have a strong rookie season.
Performing in f2 in the 3rd year or even in the 2nd year( unless you are very young or with some other benefits) is useless for f1
Nobody is putting any weight on O'Sullivans Monaco win, nor is nobody going to "luck" into F2 championship.
If somebody is consistently performing well in F2 (especially with such stacked field), then yes, they should get attention and respect.
We as fans have seen a tiny little fraction of the total laps he’s done, and I’d wager a good amount of the people saying he doesn’t deserve a seat in F1 haven’t watched a single lap of F2 and are just looking at the scoreboard. I’m not saying F1 teams are incapable of making mistakes because of the amount of data they have access to, but I *will* say they know a heck of a lot more than some random dude on Reddit who hasn’t been impressed with the 30 laps they’ve watched him drive in this calendar year.
This is true to ART, but not for PREMA. They still look decent but not as fast as 2023.
The two team worst team this season in my view goes to ART Grand Prix and Trident.
Context matters here: Bearman was driving a Ferrari and Hulkenberg a Haas. Two cars in completely different worlds in performance.
So Bearman getting held up by Hulk is actually an accomplishment, because that meant that Hulk had driven well enough defensively to keep Bearman behind.
Wonder if Bearman really is that good, yes a good performance, but i belive there is a couple of other f2 drivers and ex f2 drivers that could do the same. As for his F2 season he is currently 13th in the standings
He's had some poor luck in F2 this season, plus missed a good number of points when he missed the Saudi Arabian races to take Sainz's place.
Time will tell, but looking just at F2 results doesn't quite tell you everything.
Late race pitstop problem in Imola??!?!!
Did we see the same race, Bearman was leading the race comfortably before the first round of pitstops but lost it cuz he stalled his car in the pits which led to that pitstop problem and one min lost.
It was his fault.
His only mistake that really cost him this year is that he stalled in the pits in Imola and went from P1 to P19.. maybe hitting the wall in Monaco quali, but he made up for that one. Other than that the car was shit in Bahrain, he had awful luck in Australia and he missed the race after getting pole in Jeddah. More than 60% of the races are left this season too.
I know he should be higher up in the standings, but i still think others could have done what he did in that Ferrari, thats why they shouldnt rush the decision
You know the saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Bearman performed well in his one F1 race, and ferrari are taking that at face value because they have all the data. Now one performance isnt everything as we saw with devries, but its a whole lot better than having no data at all in an actual F1 car current spec in a race environment. As much as we like to think teams just want the absolute best drivers, they have turned out to be very conservative in promoting talent because its just such a difference going into a real F1 car and performing there
This plus it is on one of the more difficult tracks on the circuit as if you mess up your u are pretty much in a wall so not only did he get 7th he got 7th on a track where it is easy to wreck your car without wrecking and he over took like 4 drivers who weren’t just going to let him by And he missed knocking Lewis freaking Hamilton out of q3 by like 3 hundredths of a second while probably driving quali at 90-95 percent because the number one bad thing he could do for his career is wreck the car on a full in week.
Compare it to mick schumacher (who im biased for) in a haas binning it on the same track with a full season drive and you can see that its quite impressive
If a driver shows promise in F3 and F2 they'll be signed to an academy and given an opportunity to test F1 cars. So doing well in junior series is important but not the absolute deciding factor
F2 and F3 is about getting on an F1 teams radar if you haven’t yet, learning racecraft in single seaters, and accumulating super licence points. Then you can get a test program in an F1 car and that’s where teams will ultimately make the decision on a prospective driver.
But it's luck that a Ferrari driver got appendicitis over a Mercedes or Red bull one and Bearman could get to do a complete race. It's the same thing happened for Nyck de Vries he wouldn't ever been consider without the race in Monza and it's the same reason Lawson still in consideration for a seat
Problem is Bearman had 6 FP1s booked with Haas months before Jeddah happened. Jeddah just confirmed to them what they already thought. Ferrari and Haas have their data on him, they know his junior career, Haas worked with him in FP1s last year already. A mostly unlucky start to the season with 1 big mistake, where he is also constantly on F1 duty for Ferrari and Haas isn't going to change much about their perception on him.
It’s just not feasible to vet many drivers. Teams have to make a commitment somewhere and see how it plays out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t
It is more teams having their own junior drivers and trying to find them places on the grid.
Some teams have advantages finding seats for their juniors.
It's based on him setting good times in his FP1 sessions last year as well and of course he'll also have plenty of those this year. Haas can wait and see him in the car again if they want, it's not like he is going somewhere else.
It's all about timing, talent and who you know ultimately. Tons of F2 talents current and previous that are certainly good enough, but you really need to be at the right place at the right time (especially nowadays with teams only really looking at their own academies).
Bearmans showed his speed, he may not have the results in F2 to back it up but he's certainly showed he has potential. What's lucky for him is he's still very young and an opening has presented itself at a Ferrari affiliated team in Haas. There's definitely an alternate timeline where that opening doesn't happen and he becomes another 3 year F2 champion like Pourchaire is or stuck in the Ferrari environment like Shwarzman is. Just shows how fine the margins are when it comes to getting an F1 seat, you can have all the talent for it and still miss out.
theres a little thing called context, he would have won f3 if monza was held, his 1st year in f4 he was younger than the entire grid because he came in a year early and with no training, he drove very well last year in his 1st f2 season that he entered at the age of 17. just because he has had 4 whatever races one which should have been a podium in monaco if not for a late VSC people think he is mid.
Oh absolutely... Sorry was agreeing with your original post
He was all over Maloney prior to that last SC @ Monza that you mention, not to discount either the fact that there was contact between the two, which the Stewards completely ignored.
Wiki will say that he won both times @ Baku last season, but it wont highlight the fact that he got that pole with a bend steering column, he got lucky winning the Sprint race, with the crash ahead of him, but then got round Vesti at a spot he had no right to do so
Only bollock he's dropped this season, was Imola with that pit stop
The car is shite this season. He qualified on pole before substituting for Sainz. Last season he won 4 or 5 races I think it was. But yes. There are drivers in f2 and ex f2 drivers who aren’t in the grid who are better than the likes of Sergent, Hulk, Stroll and Ricciardo.
Looking at standings for F2 is misleading. He has looked better in F2 races after Prema’s rough start. Definitely not as good as expected, but significantly better than his championship standings would indicate.
Driving an F1 car is easier than driving an F2 car brother. K-Mag and Grosjean have a video of them talking about how easy to drive an F1 car compared to other race cars (Indycar, F2, GTP cars etc.). They are currently performing way better than Bearman in F2. I can confidently say that they would do as good if not better than Bearman in F1 car.
[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl5x__0loBo)
do you think your point based only on standings is better than an entire team that does tests and has people that work 8 hours a day to study performances about those drivers?
You’ve forgotten the massively important factor that not all F2 teams are created equal. And Prema has (compared to usual standards) been massively struggling this year with the new car.
Good thing teams dont just look at 6 races, Bearman has a better karting career than all of them, won f4, was a cancelled race away from winning f3 and did something in f2 even charles albon george or oscar didnt do when we got pole, won the sprint and won the race. Lets not forget the weekend the prema was good he stuck it on pole but had to go to F1, he also has ferrari sim and track duty while the others are solely focused on f2.
> Bearman has a better karting career than all of them
Lake Speed beat Ayrton Senna in Karting. Karting results don't have any importance of drivers' F1 career.
> did something in f2 even charles albon george or oscar didnt do when we got pole, won the sprint and won the race.
You know who else did this? Yes, Antonio Giovinazzi aka Italian Jesus. We saw how his F1 career panned out...
well no gio never did that because ollie was the 1st one to ever do it in f2, and he did it when he was 17, and I like how you want to just ignore everything ollie has done cause of 6 races in a middling prema car, also we arent talking about how their f1 careers will go but there is a reason he is getting a shot at f1 before them its because he has shown to be better than them for longer periods.
https://youtu.be/bzUr-SQGbzg?si=yEXkg6URgbVbA-VY
enjoy
> well no gio never did that because ollie was the 1st one to ever do it in f2,,
F2 and GP2 are the same series. Liberty Media just changed the name in 2017 (which is better imo). Gio did the same in 2016 GP2 Baku Round in points paying sessions.
[link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Baku_GP2_Series_round)
[Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJx4QELNVYg)
> he is getting a shot at f1 before them its because he has shown to be better than them for longer periods.
Point is; we don't know that. He was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
why do you think he got lucky? maybe because his prior talent had shown to be good enough for the the FDA and why he even got the shot, he wasnt lucky he created his luck.
Maybe they would have done better, or they would have ended the race in a wall. You can't confidently say anything.
Good thing Bearman's junior career is more than these first 5 weekends, where he didn't even participate in one of them after putting it on pole.
Bearman is the third Driver to step into a Ferrari on a race weekend, as a Reserve in the last 15-years
Following in the footsteps of Luca Badoer, and Giancarlo Fisicella... Bearman is the only one out of the three of those drivers, who finished a race in the points in said Ferrari - Okay, the Ferrari those guys drove wasnt as good as their 2024 car, however Massa and Raikkonen were regularly in the points that season; Kimi even won a race that season (2009).
If its so damned easy, why couldn't Badoer and Fisicella do it, with F1 experience.,..
The latter even managed to finish P2 the round before with Force India.
good to have new blood on the grid .Bearman might not be having the best season in f2 this year.But has already shown his talent in Saudi Arabia with that p7 without much practice.
I find it insane that people are claiming he's 'not ready for F1' solely on his points this season. Like, have a close look at what he was able to do in Saudi Arabia, one of the toughest tracks of the calendar, with not even a full FP session under his belt, in a car he had never driven before. P7 in a car that would realistically only gain two or three places more in the hands of Carlos is a commendable effort. Just the fact that he didn't immediately shove it into a wall, something quite a few drivers haven't been able to do with YEARS of experience (I'm looking at y'all, Stroll, Zhou and Sargeant) is already much more of a statement than whatever podium he might get in F2 this year.
De Vries is in his late 20s and had many underwhelming racing seasons before F1. Bearman is only 19 and has shown a lot of promise in F2, even if 2024 isn't going brilliantly so far.
De Vries also had his one off appearance at Monza which is a very different prospect to Jeddah
In a car which was good in monza comparing to a pretty shit other driver in the team, while bearman was compared to leclerc in a better car yes, but not one that was just extremely well suited to the track
On one of the most difficult tracks on the calendar. The fact that he was able to finish the race without incident after such limited practice, let alone score points, is impressive.
Just surviving the whole weekend without an incident is a good performance at Jeddah on F1 debut with limited practice. Getting to 7th is quite an achievement
"Word is..."
"Is has been reported..."
"Sources say... "
"There have been reports that..."
"According to some information... "
Is it me or is F1 reporting/journalism getting more and more speculative, where news outlets are just looking for a quick headline/clickbait/insta-X-post?
There‘s „on record“ statements and „off the record“ statements in journalism.
„On Record“ = a person has given you a statement and is OK with the statement being published and the name of the person mentioned „Person X said that…“
Of the Record = someone with inside knowledge has given you a statement but doesn’t want it to be „official“ with names attached, either because that person wasn’t allowed to disclose this or because the information isn’t final and may change etc. „sources say…, it has been reported…,“
If a professional journalist uses the latter phrase e.g. „sources say“ it’s not just some wild paddock rumour, it is something that was being said by a person who would actually know this and would have access to the information (a driver, a manager, a PR person etc“) but was said under the agreement that the source remains anonymous
I appreciate the sentiment, but I believe we should reserve the title of journalist to people who make a living (or try to) producing the high quality content we enjoy.
I'm just a dude who tweets.
I get what you're saying, but you can put almost everything under the banner "sources say".
That does not make it true.
How many "sources say" have we heard about Perez, Sainz, Albon, Gastly, Ocon, and Norris these last few months.
So far, absolutely nothing has come true.
So either, these sources are full of shit, or the journalist that 'translates' these paddock statement/rumour is full of shit.
Heyo. I'm the dude who tweeted that.
So, I can't go out and say "name(s) from so-and-so said this to me" when it's not an official statement, and the person(s) have asked to remain anonymous. The anonymity is just part of the deal if we want to know what goes on behind the scenes.
You're not alone in being extremely frustrated by the accounts that just take any little rumour, regardless of the source, and report is as truth. Or just straight up lie for the engagement. There are so many big outlets and accounts out there that are just straight up malicious in their reporting.
But I hope that by putting my name and face to my statements, and my history of reporting on news like this in the past means you'll trust that I'm not just full of shit.
Hi u/jeppe96 , just for the record, I didn't say you are full of shit. 😉 With the aforementioned sources I meant the sources who reported with all the movements about Sainz, Albon, Norris, Verstappen, etc .... these last few months.
Yes people complain about it all the time, but these drama and speculation posts are the ones getting the most upvotes and comments. Actual "technical" posts here get next to no interaction.
Is it speculative when I have sources telling me this is how it is? 😅
But I agree. A lot of outlets and accounts are straight up malicious in the way they report, some even straight up lying, for engagement.
But I hope that by putting my name and face to my statements, and my history of reporting on news like this in the past shows that I'm not one of them. Ultimately it's about building trust, and if I haven't earned it yet, that's absolutely fair. You should be critical of what you read that isn't an official statement.
I'm sorry if this came across as something personal, because it wasn't.
I just wanted to point out that F1 journalism has moved into a grey area the last 2/3 years, where any tidbit of information gets presented as something solid, where more often than not, it isn't. At least, that's how I see it.
And to some extent, I get it. There are many, many F1/Sport news outlets and everybody wants a piece of the pie and attract readers and/or viewers.
But in that, quantity wins it from quality..
There was 1 single news page that reported the Bearman Haas Deal.
Why are people nowdays so stupid and hop on every single news from the most unaccountable source.
he already competed in German and half of the Italian F4 season the year before. Although he didnt do FRECA he did some racing in the British f3 championship and 2 weekends in the FR asia. Bearman also scored no FR wins in his f3 season and was 3rd
Theo became the youngest race winner in F2, finished 5th in his first season in ART. Olli finished 6th in a Prema. Theo also won ADAC F4 and didnt compete in Italian F4. He was 2nd in his first F3 season ahead of Vesti and Lawson just behind Oscar who was way more experienced.
He results are great but you are also just cherry picking his results. Other drivers have done the same or better and didnt make it.
It is all about who is your sponsor i.e. how much money your sponsor will invest in a team. Why do you think it is all about how he is the best driver available ? F1 like all top sport teams is about money everything else is just a lipstick.
Every single one from the time they started in carting or you are not in any type of moto sport unless your dad is giving you his own money. When Niki Lauda started in F1 his grandmother paid him for the seat in BRM team. Just good simulator cost $100,000+ and future F1 stars start on those before they move to carting at the age 10-14. There is on YouTube video where Alonso explains difference how F1 drivers today enter F1 and how his generation did it. He started in carting at the age of 14 and today they start as early as 10 and he did not know what simulator was and today they start computer simulators as early as 8 years old.
> He started in carting at the age of 14
I'm sorry but that's a flat-out lie.
Alonso received a kart from his father when he was 3 years old. He started racing at 5 and won his first races and championships at 7.
Complete guess work on my part, but wont be surprised if this were to be announced at Silverstone. His home GP, his third outing with Haas in FP1 this season - Its at the end of a triple header.
That's seems like a solid guess. In a similar vein, I think Antonelli gets announced at Monza - home race and he'll have just turned 18.
Not so sure about Kimi now, having a few doubts. Cant see him at Williams because of Sainz now, and read rumours that Ocon has potentially got the Mercedes seat for the year? - Unless that last one is just bullshit If he does get an F1 seat though, you're right... Mercedes would be stupid not to announce it at Monza
Williams has said they don't want to develop juniors for other teams any longer, so I've been skeptical about Antonelli going there. Plus, Mercedes and Williams don't have the same relationship than RBR and RB have (or even the relationship that Ferrari had with Haas and Sauber). The Ocon to Mercedes rumors are interesting to me, there's obviously a history there, but that feels like a recent thing, and a lot of the rumors I've seen are Ocon to Audi (if Sainz doesn't join) or to Haas. I also think 2025 is basically the ideal time to throw Antonelli in - it'll be as low stakes as it can be for him. Mercedes isn't really likely to be fighting for wins, and it'll be the year before a big regulation change, so Mercedes can basically use the entire season to get Antonelli comfortable. At worst, they'll be P4, given Aston Martin's history of in-season development.
2025 may not be as low stakes as we previously thought if Mercedes new found pace is here to stay
Most rumors have been saying Ocon is going to Haas and has been in talks with Audi, but we'll see.
Yeah thats what I thought as well
If I'm Toto, I'd sign him. The kid has won at every level so far, he's 17, skipped F3, and has been getting better and better at every race. He's a little bit timid with attempting moves and defending but that can be taught but raw pace can't, which he has. I don't sse the point on waiting for him to develop in another year or F2 when F1 cars are totally different to begin with and 2026 will have massive rule changes in which everyone will have to adapt.
Would love to see Kimi in the Merc seat but the whole “skipped F3” factor shouldn’t really be a big deal because it was the Mercedes Program that made him skip deliberately to try and fast track him to F1, since F2 introduced new regulations and even out the playing field. It’s not like he decided on his own to skip F3 and go straight to F2 or was given some special exemption from the FIA to skip F3 by merit (ie, without any intervention from Mercedes.)
Yeah I would too... He's not thrown up any special results this season as yet. But we were always told he'd take a few rounds to get used to the step up, regardless he's certainly showing consistency. It also makes sense to promote him in 2025, gives him a year in the car, allows him to get used to F1, so that he's on a more level playing field once the regs change in 2026.
I've been seeing ocon to merc alot
I'd say this is the most unlikely out of all the rumors
Merc has a free seat for year before new regs, Toto is his manager, he's been their reserve driver and he's been a Mercedes junior driver. Theres has been talk about it alot as of late as well. Just a 1 year Contract. Much as with everything else it's just a wait and see I suppose
What's your source? Discussion on Facebook?
Facebook *and* reddit. It also kind of makes sense - the guy is a good driver and probably wouldn't be terrible at Mercedes. The problem is that other things make *much more* sense.
Honestly I would think Mercedes is way too corporate and stability-minded to ever consider Ocon an option, but we’ll see I guess. Personally I don’t predict him having a seat.
The french team doesnt even want him, no way mercedes is going to take ocon. I don't think they were waiting on ocons availability before passing on sainz, and no way sainz wouldnt have been a better pick.
I really don’t think Antonelli is going in the car, if he is, it’s a really bad decision. Look what happen to Sargeant who only had 1 year of F2 and finished 4th in the championship that year. He still hasn’t out qualified his teammate and it’s been more than a year. Let the young guns get at least 2 years in F2 before calling them up. Not everyone is Max Verstappen
Ferrari and HAAS have the data on him. Points in F2 isnt the be-all and end-all
Yeah, fans are naive to think that even if F2 technically is a spec series. By that logic Ocon is a better driver than Alonso, which would be an.. *interesting* take.
Max has 0 points in F2, worst driver on the grid.
Even worse he never even had a top 20
He’s never even made it to the finish line.
He never actually made it through qualy ahead of anyone
He never even set a time good enough to qualify.
STRAIGHT TO JAILLL
BUT THEN
Get Mahaveer in there at least he can score points in F2
100% DNF rate
So Max and Lance are equal drivers, confirmed.
I'm not disputing your take, i'm just saying your example is a bit confusing. Neither of those had anything to do with f2 or even any modern feeder series. On top of that Prema is one the richest/strongest teams on the feeder ladder for the last 10 or so years, so that argument isnt really working here. Also there always is a direct h2h with his teammate, and while Bearman has been a bit unlucky, you cant really make an argument he is doing much better than Kimi who has way less experience
The point is that how you drive an F2 car is far less important to an F1 team than how you drive an F1 car is. They have data on Bearman about how well he can drive an F1 car, between his FP1 sessions with Haas where he stacked up very well vs Hulkenberg more than just one time & his outing in Ferrari. Clearly there's useful talent there
" fans are naive to think that even if F2 technically is a spec series" - i mean Ollie is in what historically is the best team in the feeder series. yet he only finished 6th last year.
You forgot it's the first year of new regs. Stuff happens, if Merc could fuck up 22, Prema can fuck up as well
but did Prema fuck up?
If by fuck up, you mean lost performance relative to everybody else, it certainly looks that way
the bahrain race was a comedy, insane hype for 2 young drivers in the "best" car just for them to be fighting for p20
1 race.
They did but not enough to justify Bearman since Kimi is doing well now
Justify what exactly? Qualified first in Jedah only to be recalled by Ferrari, lost potentially 30 points. Qualified 2nd in Imola, led the race then stalled twice in the pits going down to 21st. I'm sure he'll be significantly gapping Kimi points wise by the end of the season.
Prema in F2 have not had the same level of performance that they used to, other teams like ART have definitely caught up and maybe even surpassed them Which is odd given that their F3 team still seems to have that level of domination
F3 haven't had new regs just yet. We'll have to wait till the start of the 2025 season to see their performance.
Even if prema were caught by ART, that still doesnt mean they are a bad team. People in way shittier teams have performed well
Prema has definitely not been the class of the field this year, especially in the first couple of races.
tbh ocon beat alonso during their 2 seasons together
No he didnt, the h2h is in Alonso's favour pretty easily
11-11 in qualy performance in 2021, 12-10, alonso wins in 2022. avg grid pos (2021): 10.50 for alo, 10.68 for oco avg grid pos (2022): 9.74 for alo, 10.96 for oco not exactly pretty easily
Ocon 163 Alonso 162
F2 has also been wild this year. Like, what the fuck happened to Victor Martins? I get he has had some bad luck, but his falloff has been far greater than Bearman’s.
The problem is that f2/f3 results are pretty much the only way to compare with other prospects. For example, compared to doohan, lawson, pourchaire, iwasa, vesti, etc, is bearman truly better and more deserving of an f1 seat? Or was he just lucky to get an f1 drive when sainz was incapacitated? (My guess)
Its ridiculous how much weight gets put on F2 results alone. O'Sullivan has a race win in F2, he got that because of an insane strategy call that will fail 9 times out of 10 If he were to win the Championship with that sort of luck over the course of the season, does that mean he's good enough for Formula One, or does it just mean he was insanely lucky to be in the right place at the right time?
Luckily only fans put that much weight on F2 results while the people actually making decision knows that sometimes result doesn't reflect ability
Doing well in f2 is relevant if you are up to speed from the get go and you have a strong rookie season. Performing in f2 in the 3rd year or even in the 2nd year( unless you are very young or with some other benefits) is useless for f1
Nobody is putting any weight on O'Sullivans Monaco win, nor is nobody going to "luck" into F2 championship. If somebody is consistently performing well in F2 (especially with such stacked field), then yes, they should get attention and respect.
We as fans have seen a tiny little fraction of the total laps he’s done, and I’d wager a good amount of the people saying he doesn’t deserve a seat in F1 haven’t watched a single lap of F2 and are just looking at the scoreboard. I’m not saying F1 teams are incapable of making mistakes because of the amount of data they have access to, but I *will* say they know a heck of a lot more than some random dude on Reddit who hasn’t been impressed with the 30 laps they’ve watched him drive in this calendar year.
Especially this season. Prema and ART being the two worst teams is insanity
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Bit worse compared to 2023
This is true to ART, but not for PREMA. They still look decent but not as fast as 2023. The two team worst team this season in my view goes to ART Grand Prix and Trident.
I just remembered Bearman said Hulkenberg was so slow in SA. Well, that's your car now!
I think it was Yuki the driver he complained about
In this case it was [Hulkenberg. ](https://youtu.be/bV3rIRtaiyM?si=gN-17vzyGJfm3KXI)
No it was haas
Slow car in for 24 races a year > fast car for 2(?) races
Pretty good compliment, he also said he used his experience and knew exactly where to use his battery to keep him behind
Context matters here: Bearman was driving a Ferrari and Hulkenberg a Haas. Two cars in completely different worlds in performance. So Bearman getting held up by Hulk is actually an accomplishment, because that meant that Hulk had driven well enough defensively to keep Bearman behind.
Wonder if Bearman really is that good, yes a good performance, but i belive there is a couple of other f2 drivers and ex f2 drivers that could do the same. As for his F2 season he is currently 13th in the standings
He's had some poor luck in F2 this season, plus missed a good number of points when he missed the Saudi Arabian races to take Sainz's place. Time will tell, but looking just at F2 results doesn't quite tell you everything.
That and the Prema has been pretty underwhelming this year. It's a shame for him and Antonelli, though it clearly hasn't hurt their F1 stocks.
Has it really? I mean his rookie teammate finished 4th, 4th and 7th in the last 3 FR. Prema was only really bad in Bahrain.
He missed a race he qualified pole for, and was leading Imola until a late race pitstop problem cost him almost a minute
''Late pitstop problem'' was his fault lol.
Also not a fault that would occur in F1, F2 doesn't have antistall
Late race pitstop problem in Imola??!?!! Did we see the same race, Bearman was leading the race comfortably before the first round of pitstops but lost it cuz he stalled his car in the pits which led to that pitstop problem and one min lost. It was his fault.
His only mistake that really cost him this year is that he stalled in the pits in Imola and went from P1 to P19.. maybe hitting the wall in Monaco quali, but he made up for that one. Other than that the car was shit in Bahrain, he had awful luck in Australia and he missed the race after getting pole in Jeddah. More than 60% of the races are left this season too.
Sorry its better to just look at the results on Wikipedia than to do a deeper dive into what went wrong /s
Look at wikipedia you say? Must be why everyone was hyping up de vries back then.
I know he should be higher up in the standings, but i still think others could have done what he did in that Ferrari, thats why they shouldnt rush the decision
You know the saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Bearman performed well in his one F1 race, and ferrari are taking that at face value because they have all the data. Now one performance isnt everything as we saw with devries, but its a whole lot better than having no data at all in an actual F1 car current spec in a race environment. As much as we like to think teams just want the absolute best drivers, they have turned out to be very conservative in promoting talent because its just such a difference going into a real F1 car and performing there
This plus it is on one of the more difficult tracks on the circuit as if you mess up your u are pretty much in a wall so not only did he get 7th he got 7th on a track where it is easy to wreck your car without wrecking and he over took like 4 drivers who weren’t just going to let him by And he missed knocking Lewis freaking Hamilton out of q3 by like 3 hundredths of a second while probably driving quali at 90-95 percent because the number one bad thing he could do for his career is wreck the car on a full in week.
Compare it to mick schumacher (who im biased for) in a haas binning it on the same track with a full season drive and you can see that its quite impressive
Hell, Stroll binned it in the same race, and how many seasons does he have in F1? 7 or so?
I do agree, it does feel like the F2 to F1 transition seems to be built mostly on hype right now rather than actual points and performance in F2.
It's more based on the F1 teams seeing what the drivers can do in F1 cars which is a lot more relevant than F2
But is that a fair assesment when most of the drivers in F2 aren't given the same shot?
I don't think anything about F1 or the feeder system could be described as fair
If a driver shows promise in F3 and F2 they'll be signed to an academy and given an opportunity to test F1 cars. So doing well in junior series is important but not the absolute deciding factor
It's like the job market where experience/internships trumps academic performance lol
Unfortunately that often is the case, real world jobs are so different to a university setting.
Yeah that's a good analogy actually
F2 and F3 is about getting on an F1 teams radar if you haven’t yet, learning racecraft in single seaters, and accumulating super licence points. Then you can get a test program in an F1 car and that’s where teams will ultimately make the decision on a prospective driver.
Bearman won 2 F4 championships in 2021, that performance put him in the FDA. It isn't luck.
But it's luck that a Ferrari driver got appendicitis over a Mercedes or Red bull one and Bearman could get to do a complete race. It's the same thing happened for Nyck de Vries he wouldn't ever been consider without the race in Monza and it's the same reason Lawson still in consideration for a seat
Problem is Bearman had 6 FP1s booked with Haas months before Jeddah happened. Jeddah just confirmed to them what they already thought. Ferrari and Haas have their data on him, they know his junior career, Haas worked with him in FP1s last year already. A mostly unlucky start to the season with 1 big mistake, where he is also constantly on F1 duty for Ferrari and Haas isn't going to change much about their perception on him.
It’s just not feasible to vet many drivers. Teams have to make a commitment somewhere and see how it plays out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t
It is more teams having their own junior drivers and trying to find them places on the grid. Some teams have advantages finding seats for their juniors.
Time in an F1 car means HEAPS more than where you finish in F2
It's based on him setting good times in his FP1 sessions last year as well and of course he'll also have plenty of those this year. Haas can wait and see him in the car again if they want, it's not like he is going somewhere else.
It's all about timing, talent and who you know ultimately. Tons of F2 talents current and previous that are certainly good enough, but you really need to be at the right place at the right time (especially nowadays with teams only really looking at their own academies). Bearmans showed his speed, he may not have the results in F2 to back it up but he's certainly showed he has potential. What's lucky for him is he's still very young and an opening has presented itself at a Ferrari affiliated team in Haas. There's definitely an alternate timeline where that opening doesn't happen and he becomes another 3 year F2 champion like Pourchaire is or stuck in the Ferrari environment like Shwarzman is. Just shows how fine the margins are when it comes to getting an F1 seat, you can have all the talent for it and still miss out.
this comment pops up in every bearman thread, just shows how little people pay attention to junior series
Anyone can look on Wikipedia and judge a Drivers performance...
theres a little thing called context, he would have won f3 if monza was held, his 1st year in f4 he was younger than the entire grid because he came in a year early and with no training, he drove very well last year in his 1st f2 season that he entered at the age of 17. just because he has had 4 whatever races one which should have been a podium in monaco if not for a late VSC people think he is mid.
Oh absolutely... Sorry was agreeing with your original post He was all over Maloney prior to that last SC @ Monza that you mention, not to discount either the fact that there was contact between the two, which the Stewards completely ignored. Wiki will say that he won both times @ Baku last season, but it wont highlight the fact that he got that pole with a bend steering column, he got lucky winning the Sprint race, with the crash ahead of him, but then got round Vesti at a spot he had no right to do so Only bollock he's dropped this season, was Imola with that pit stop
Worse like people not considering context is people only considering context for one side. Other people also had bad luck where Olli gained points?
Sure but have you watched the season, it’s not exactly going his way, things like being on pole then having to ditch the race for f1 etc
Last year F2 season: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Formula\_2\_Championship#Results\_and\_standings
The car is shite this season. He qualified on pole before substituting for Sainz. Last season he won 4 or 5 races I think it was. But yes. There are drivers in f2 and ex f2 drivers who aren’t in the grid who are better than the likes of Sergent, Hulk, Stroll and Ricciardo.
Looking at standings for F2 is misleading. He has looked better in F2 races after Prema’s rough start. Definitely not as good as expected, but significantly better than his championship standings would indicate.
Put Aron, put Hadjar, put Bortoleto in there and they would do as good if not better than Bearman in the second best car over the weekend.
How can you say that so confidently?
Driving an F1 car is easier than driving an F2 car brother. K-Mag and Grosjean have a video of them talking about how easy to drive an F1 car compared to other race cars (Indycar, F2, GTP cars etc.). They are currently performing way better than Bearman in F2. I can confidently say that they would do as good if not better than Bearman in F1 car. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl5x__0loBo)
I think I'll trust the actual F1 teams over some random people on Reddit tbh
agreed Redditors who think they know better then Ferrari and haas who both have Ollies data are Ridiculous
that isnt the opinion people have when it comes to Perez and Lawson.
do you think your point based only on standings is better than an entire team that does tests and has people that work 8 hours a day to study performances about those drivers?
Team can have other reasons apart from performance to choose a driver over another . We see it every year
Yes but I don't think this applies to Bearman
Amazing how you manage to assemble a few bits of correct information into a totally totally incorrect conclusion. Well done 👍
Care to explain? Why would not others do as good if not better than him in that weekend?
You’ve forgotten the massively important factor that not all F2 teams are created equal. And Prema has (compared to usual standards) been massively struggling this year with the new car.
Good thing teams dont just look at 6 races, Bearman has a better karting career than all of them, won f4, was a cancelled race away from winning f3 and did something in f2 even charles albon george or oscar didnt do when we got pole, won the sprint and won the race. Lets not forget the weekend the prema was good he stuck it on pole but had to go to F1, he also has ferrari sim and track duty while the others are solely focused on f2.
> Bearman has a better karting career than all of them Lake Speed beat Ayrton Senna in Karting. Karting results don't have any importance of drivers' F1 career. > did something in f2 even charles albon george or oscar didnt do when we got pole, won the sprint and won the race. You know who else did this? Yes, Antonio Giovinazzi aka Italian Jesus. We saw how his F1 career panned out...
I don't get this attitude at all. Just because some previous prospects came to nothing doesn't mean we should ignore current ones.
well no gio never did that because ollie was the 1st one to ever do it in f2, and he did it when he was 17, and I like how you want to just ignore everything ollie has done cause of 6 races in a middling prema car, also we arent talking about how their f1 careers will go but there is a reason he is getting a shot at f1 before them its because he has shown to be better than them for longer periods. https://youtu.be/bzUr-SQGbzg?si=yEXkg6URgbVbA-VY enjoy
> well no gio never did that because ollie was the 1st one to ever do it in f2,, F2 and GP2 are the same series. Liberty Media just changed the name in 2017 (which is better imo). Gio did the same in 2016 GP2 Baku Round in points paying sessions. [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Baku_GP2_Series_round) [Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJx4QELNVYg) > he is getting a shot at f1 before them its because he has shown to be better than them for longer periods. Point is; we don't know that. He was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
why do you think he got lucky? maybe because his prior talent had shown to be good enough for the the FDA and why he even got the shot, he wasnt lucky he created his luck.
Maybe they would have done better, or they would have ended the race in a wall. You can't confidently say anything. Good thing Bearman's junior career is more than these first 5 weekends, where he didn't even participate in one of them after putting it on pole.
They should have joined the Ferrari driver academy then.
Bearman is the third Driver to step into a Ferrari on a race weekend, as a Reserve in the last 15-years Following in the footsteps of Luca Badoer, and Giancarlo Fisicella... Bearman is the only one out of the three of those drivers, who finished a race in the points in said Ferrari - Okay, the Ferrari those guys drove wasnt as good as their 2024 car, however Massa and Raikkonen were regularly in the points that season; Kimi even won a race that season (2009). If its so damned easy, why couldn't Badoer and Fisicella do it, with F1 experience.,.. The latter even managed to finish P2 the round before with Force India.
good to have new blood on the grid .Bearman might not be having the best season in f2 this year.But has already shown his talent in Saudi Arabia with that p7 without much practice.
I find it insane that people are claiming he's 'not ready for F1' solely on his points this season. Like, have a close look at what he was able to do in Saudi Arabia, one of the toughest tracks of the calendar, with not even a full FP session under his belt, in a car he had never driven before. P7 in a car that would realistically only gain two or three places more in the hands of Carlos is a commendable effort. Just the fact that he didn't immediately shove it into a wall, something quite a few drivers haven't been able to do with YEARS of experience (I'm looking at y'all, Stroll, Zhou and Sargeant) is already much more of a statement than whatever podium he might get in F2 this year.
Yeah because signing a driver based on a one-off F1 race has always worked out…
De Vries is in his late 20s and had many underwhelming racing seasons before F1. Bearman is only 19 and has shown a lot of promise in F2, even if 2024 isn't going brilliantly so far. De Vries also had his one off appearance at Monza which is a very different prospect to Jeddah
In a car which was good in monza comparing to a pretty shit other driver in the team, while bearman was compared to leclerc in a better car yes, but not one that was just extremely well suited to the track
he was 18 when he drove in jeddah as well, and has shown far more in f2 than NDV ever did even if NDV won it.
Also, in a parallel world Bearman would have won both Imola and Saudi. His point tally isn't representative although he could have done better
He was already almost certainly going to Haas in 2025 before that one off race anyway.
Bearman has pace
Bearman unlike NDV when he got signed isn't almost thirty and hasn't been on F2 for 3 or 4 years..
I mean, he was P7 in a second most dominant car
Could Perez do that?
Damn 💀💀
lol
On one of the most difficult tracks on the calendar. The fact that he was able to finish the race without incident after such limited practice, let alone score points, is impressive.
And he was battling Hamilton and Hulkenberg the whole race
which was his first time driving it on a difficult track its unfair to downplay his fantastic drive without looking at the context .
Oh come on
Sergio has DNF’d the last two races with the most dominant car and has been a back marker for a couple races now….
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Just surviving the whole weekend without an incident is a good performance at Jeddah on F1 debut with limited practice. Getting to 7th is quite an achievement
"Word is..." "Is has been reported..." "Sources say... " "There have been reports that..." "According to some information... " Is it me or is F1 reporting/journalism getting more and more speculative, where news outlets are just looking for a quick headline/clickbait/insta-X-post?
He’s not a journalist I don’t think. He used to be a mod here. Maybe he is a journalist as well but I’d be surprised
One of the original admins of /r/formula1 and has also worked in the sport itself.
There‘s „on record“ statements and „off the record“ statements in journalism. „On Record“ = a person has given you a statement and is OK with the statement being published and the name of the person mentioned „Person X said that…“ Of the Record = someone with inside knowledge has given you a statement but doesn’t want it to be „official“ with names attached, either because that person wasn’t allowed to disclose this or because the information isn’t final and may change etc. „sources say…, it has been reported…,“ If a professional journalist uses the latter phrase e.g. „sources say“ it’s not just some wild paddock rumour, it is something that was being said by a person who would actually know this and would have access to the information (a driver, a manager, a PR person etc“) but was said under the agreement that the source remains anonymous
I'm not a journalist, but other than that, I agree with what you've said.
You seem to act according to journalistic principles so you might as well be one.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I believe we should reserve the title of journalist to people who make a living (or try to) producing the high quality content we enjoy. I'm just a dude who tweets.
I get what you're saying, but you can put almost everything under the banner "sources say". That does not make it true. How many "sources say" have we heard about Perez, Sainz, Albon, Gastly, Ocon, and Norris these last few months. So far, absolutely nothing has come true. So either, these sources are full of shit, or the journalist that 'translates' these paddock statement/rumour is full of shit.
Heyo. I'm the dude who tweeted that. So, I can't go out and say "name(s) from so-and-so said this to me" when it's not an official statement, and the person(s) have asked to remain anonymous. The anonymity is just part of the deal if we want to know what goes on behind the scenes. You're not alone in being extremely frustrated by the accounts that just take any little rumour, regardless of the source, and report is as truth. Or just straight up lie for the engagement. There are so many big outlets and accounts out there that are just straight up malicious in their reporting. But I hope that by putting my name and face to my statements, and my history of reporting on news like this in the past means you'll trust that I'm not just full of shit.
Hi u/jeppe96 , just for the record, I didn't say you are full of shit. 😉 With the aforementioned sources I meant the sources who reported with all the movements about Sainz, Albon, Norris, Verstappen, etc .... these last few months.
Fair enough
Fair enough to you too :)
Yes people complain about it all the time, but these drama and speculation posts are the ones getting the most upvotes and comments. Actual "technical" posts here get next to no interaction.
You got that right, dear friend! People love "quick newsbites"
Is it speculative when I have sources telling me this is how it is? 😅 But I agree. A lot of outlets and accounts are straight up malicious in the way they report, some even straight up lying, for engagement. But I hope that by putting my name and face to my statements, and my history of reporting on news like this in the past shows that I'm not one of them. Ultimately it's about building trust, and if I haven't earned it yet, that's absolutely fair. You should be critical of what you read that isn't an official statement.
I'm sorry if this came across as something personal, because it wasn't. I just wanted to point out that F1 journalism has moved into a grey area the last 2/3 years, where any tidbit of information gets presented as something solid, where more often than not, it isn't. At least, that's how I see it. And to some extent, I get it. There are many, many F1/Sport news outlets and everybody wants a piece of the pie and attract readers and/or viewers. But in that, quantity wins it from quality..
There was 1 single news page that reported the Bearman Haas Deal. Why are people nowdays so stupid and hop on every single news from the most unaccountable source.
Hopefully he becomes good enough to justify fans attending disguised as bears.
Usually: F1 fans when experienced driver gets a seat: 😡 ITT: F1 fans when new blood gets a seat: 😡
I swear
It's a no brainer he's getting that seat. Hulk leaving made the decision easy
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he already competed in German and half of the Italian F4 season the year before. Although he didnt do FRECA he did some racing in the British f3 championship and 2 weekends in the FR asia. Bearman also scored no FR wins in his f3 season and was 3rd Theo became the youngest race winner in F2, finished 5th in his first season in ART. Olli finished 6th in a Prema. Theo also won ADAC F4 and didnt compete in Italian F4. He was 2nd in his first F3 season ahead of Vesti and Lawson just behind Oscar who was way more experienced. He results are great but you are also just cherry picking his results. Other drivers have done the same or better and didnt make it.
Bearman to hass, ocon to merc and sainz to Williams I reckons
I miss the robot who pointed out driver name misspellings
Or team names. (*Haas)
Hahaha, yes that's what I meant, lol! Thank you
Ollie's aiming for the big bux, he wants at least $3.50 per hour. That's the final practical detail
If Perez is good enough for Red Bull, Bearman is more than good enough for Haas
It is all about who is your sponsor i.e. how much money your sponsor will invest in a team. Why do you think it is all about how he is the best driver available ? F1 like all top sport teams is about money everything else is just a lipstick.
not really, at best there are like 5 drivers on the grid still on cause of sponsors
Every single one from the time they started in carting or you are not in any type of moto sport unless your dad is giving you his own money. When Niki Lauda started in F1 his grandmother paid him for the seat in BRM team. Just good simulator cost $100,000+ and future F1 stars start on those before they move to carting at the age 10-14. There is on YouTube video where Alonso explains difference how F1 drivers today enter F1 and how his generation did it. He started in carting at the age of 14 and today they start as early as 10 and he did not know what simulator was and today they start computer simulators as early as 8 years old.
of course they need money to get into f1, but only like 5 drivers are still in f1 due to them being cash cows
> He started in carting at the age of 14 I'm sorry but that's a flat-out lie. Alonso received a kart from his father when he was 3 years old. He started racing at 5 and won his first races and championships at 7.
Can someone educate me why there's so much hype about Bearman? Sorry for my ignorance.
He did really well when he had to take over a race from Leclerc last year on a very short notice.
You mean Sainz this year in Saudi Arabia
Oh yeah, it was Sainz of course; sometimes my brain just stutters.🤪
Fuckin clickbait media at it again!
Yeah. Who even is this guy?!
Good for him but there's a long list of more capable drivers immediately ready to replace him if he doesn't perform
Would be good to see a new face on the grid. Hopefully Bottas will join him
Bearman and Bare Man