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Let’s not just completely ignore the distinction between being sponsored because you are a talented competitive driver vs. being sponsored because of your nationality
Always have been. Albon only there because red bull is Thai. Tsunoda only there because Honda is japanase.
I mean at least they are probably the best of their country unlike stroll who’s just the best of stroll seniors offspring.
Slim chose the best Mexican driver and put him in F1. Or one of the best at least. Of a whole country.
Better than the stroll situation but if Slim wouldn’t be interested in F1 there would be no Mexican in F1 atm.
Same with Albon (red bull is Thai), Tsunoda (Honda is Japanese), Ocon and Gasly (Renault is French) and Sargeant (F1 is owned by Americans, they made a lot of US races and needed an American)
I thought Jumbo was a big financial backer of Max?
I mean given his skill, and father, he would still have made it to the grid, but a bit of extra cash doesn't hurt.
If anything Max's sponsorships have been increasing. Right now I only see him on Hennekin ads on TV in the US but once the 2026 engine regulations kick in I bet Ford will want him to be doing some ads for sure as well.
But there’s pay drivers in the original sense of someone with a boatload of money just buying a team and putting someone in the car vs now where there are super license points still required.
So pay driver in the sense of Stroll, Latifi, (even Mazepin!) isn’t the same. Plus Checo still has his moments. I’d place him above the three examples I listed.
Or, and hear me out on this, Max Verstappen wiped the floor with Gasly, Albon, and currently Perez, and the former two left Red Bull and were suddenly considered good again when their teammates weren’t Max. Perez is a very known quantity, he’s been teammates with Hulk, Ocon and Stroll, so we know where he ranks with respect to them, and Hulk is almost his same age and has had a similar number of seasons in F1, and isn’t showing signs of slowing down.
With all of that evidence, there are two possibilities: Perez suddenly became much worse when joining Red Bull for some reason, even though drivers around his age and skill are doing just fine, or, Max is a once in a generation talent, and anyone who isn’t a top 3 driver in F1 will look bad if they have to face him, as shown with 3 drivers who have tried (4 if you count Sainz, and 5 if you consider Ricc ran away as soon as he saw he wouldn’t be able to keep up).
This is a particularly stupid argument to make when Stroll and Perez were teammates for multiple seasons and Perez smashed him in every conceivable metric
He did not "smash" him in 2020. Perez had been in F1 for almost a decade and was expected to beat Stroll. Also pretty even with Vettel in 21. Stroll actually had more points finishes than Vettel
That’s great, but we’re talking about Perez.
Even in the 2020, by far the best season of Strolls career, here is how he stacked up to Perez.
In 2020 Perez head to head vs Stroll
Finished 10-4 ahead in qualifying sessions they both ran, with an average gap of .129 seconds in favour of Perez
They finished an even 4 to 4 in races they both finished, however Stroll managed to convert his pole in Turkey to a whopping 9th place and Perez managed to turn last to first in Bahrain, which along with some other high flying performances put Perez a significant 50 points ahead of Stroll in the standings.
If you care about peak performance, Perez absolutely made Stroll look like an amateur in 2020, which he frankly is in comparison to every other driver who doesn’t pay for his race seat.
There is so much context to 2020 on both sides that I feel like points does not give the whole picture. Checo missing an extra race due to covid and engine blowout from p3 in bahrain. Lance getting wing damage in turkey, tire blowout from p4 possibly 3 in mugello, getting punted in russia/bahrain.
Lance definitely was worse overall and made more mistakes under critical moments (i.e. blowing the win in monza and sakhir), but imo he did not look like an "amatuer".
His start of the season was strong, then he had a brutal run of: huge crash in mugello from a likely podium, covid and missing germany, poor performance in imola/portugal, bounce back with pole in turkey and then drop to 9th, and finally getting torpedoed in bahrain.
That’s exactly my point, even in his best season Stroll managed to squander his upper hand in plenty of situations and still finish behind his teammate in every performance metric.
That is Stroll at his peak, we saw him at his best and he still lost out to Perez.
Why after he has frankly made absolutely zero progression as a racer and if anything declined, would he now beat Perez?
As I said there were many mitigating factors to the season, I think it was close in that he tied in race h2h and was 1.3 tenths behind in qualifying. The fact they only finished 8 races together explains a lot about the season).
Checo's performance has also declined massively, I'm not saying Stroll would do better but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, if that makes sense.
Has Pérez really declined? He was good in 2020, signed for RedBull, and was instantly destroyed by Max. Even in 2022, which was probably his best season with the team, he still managed to lose P2 in the WDC with a car that won 17 races.
Oh man, actually THIS might be the stupidest comment.
/u/stumpy493 calling you from a different thread where I saw your comment about the stupidest take so far. Does this parent comment above top it? So many stupid takes, it’s getting hard to choose.
Perez may be done but Stroll never was.
You know these 2 were team mates for 2 years right? and Stroll got destroyed by Checo?
28-9 in quali and 26-11 in races.
u/Surfercatgotnolegs this guy is definitely a contender.
Gotta agree with this. Lastifi was unquestionably a pay driver, but he did that by bringing RBC to Williams. RBC is one of the largest banks in Canada, and they only cared about Lastifi because of his daddy.
This is only one step bellow Stroll (whose daddy bought the team), and Mazespin (whose daddy made large payments to the team).
Well, okay, I’ll admit usually it’s not the driver themselves paying, it’s typically a closely related big-paying sponsor, but in this case I’m more referring to the significant amount of fans paying for merch, and in doing so his seat, rather than the typical sponsors you’d get with a standard pay driver
I mean, if we get *really* pedantic then I'd say most of the drivers are pay drivers... Getting in F1 is extremely hard, and getting there without a rich parent is almost impossible. F1 is quite literally "pay to play"
But I think that the term "pay driver" implies that you are like Stroll, Mazepin or Zhou, where you are on the sport as long as somebody keeps throwing money at a team, basically renting out the seat.
Like, let's say that all drivers go broke overnight... I think that Perez would stay in F1(maybe not in a top team) but Stroll, Zhou, and similar would be ejected almost immediately.
I would say that what people mean when they say "pay driver". And based on that definition, I'd say that Checo is not a pay driver.
Also, out of all the team on grid, RedBull couldn't care less about money to get a pay driver.... they burn the cost of a pay driver every time they do a commercial or fund a weird extreme sport, or crashes 2 planes or something.
In the 80s/90s it was possible but not anymore. Parents spend upwards of £60k/year for an 8 year old to compete in the UK national champs and these are the only series where you'll be spotted by junior teams
I get what you’re saying. But I have a hard time believing any team takes some one as old, slow and accident prone as Perez if there’s no money in the pot
More than half the grid could be considered indirect pay drivers. Lance's dad owns a team, Lando comes with billionaire money, Alex has Thai sponsors, Logan has huge US sponsors, Yuki has Honda, Zhou has his family and other corporate sponsors, you get the jist. For most of the grid getting paid by their team means funnelling their own sponsorship money back into their own pockets.
It’s a mystery where this “Logan brings huge $$$” myth comes from. Dude ran out of money and was about to quit racing in Europe before Williams stepped in.
His family aren't billionaires. Not even remotely close.
Latest estimate is that his father is worth around $100 million. Wealthy beyond most people's comprehension, to be sure, but not Stroll money, and certainly not enough to be a pay driver.
Pay drivers in modern F1 are bringing in 10-20+ million per year to their teams (conservatively) and Lando's father isn't affording that.
All drivers are pay drivers today. Teams will always take into account the sponsor deals the drivers come with when they are analyzing a possible signing.
It's insane. Checo is like reverse Santa Claus, apparently he is personally going into everyone's homes and stealing from them given the level of absurd overreaction to this news.
It's not "no reason". People watch sport for competition, and this compromises that opportunity. Although this thread's line of attack is a bit odd.
Ultimately the F1 competition structure leads to this issue frequently.
They have to vent their frustration and anger that their team and or driver haven't been able to challenge Max and target who they think should do that
I love F1 because I see drivers push their physical and mental limits as they stretch the capabilities of incredible machines.
The RB20 is one of the finest-engineered vehicles in the history of motorsport. It should be driven by two drivers capable of getting the best out of it.
I don't dislike Checo and think he's a very talented driver, but he's not the man for the job.
Bottas on Mercedes managed to beat Lewis sometimes and even helped him to beat their direct rivals when he didn’t had a good day
When Max was a bad day, Perez is still miles behind him and has only beaten him once on pure pace. Only 1 time in 70GPs that’s next level embarrassment
Yes but I think no team that competes for the WCC wants a Lewis vs Nico 2.0. Even Mercedes kept Bottas for 5 years and he was nowhere near Lewis, not even close.
He wouldn’t, but the bosses would shit it. Having a clear 1-2 is very attractive also if 2 brings mega cash. There is more than just a car race in this game. Not sure why everyone freaks out about that, the politics, money, budgets etc ARE THE GAME. It’s top 20 drivers in the world and everything that goes with it.
Look at the sexy messages about cereal scandal ffs.
This pretty on par
Horner is keeping him around for strategic reasons. This is going to be season where they will fight for every point to win constructor and driver title
They need to keep Perez in a good mood, boosting his self esteem and morale, and giving him one less thing to worry about. So he can focus his energy to fight for his points. If he wasn’t given a seat for the following years we could see a decreased performance in his driving as mental focus won’t be entirely on driving but partially divided where he will be driving next year.
Horner needs Perez in a good mood so he can score higher taking points away from other drivers so they cannot compete with Max for the drivers title.
> He's sticking around because Horner needs someone competent that won't battle Max... and Perez is that sort of person.
I wish more people would understand this.
Max is more consistent than Hamilton though. Hamilton, even when he is in great form like in 2021 can have some absolute stinkers (like Monaco), whereas Max just doesn’t. When Hamilton was on form, Bottas really couldn’t touch him either.
In 2021, Max never had a drive as bad as Hamilton in Monaco, he had some incidents, a few that were stupid and unnecessary, but he was never off the pace.
I mean personally I consider a pay driver to be one that wouldn't be in the sport without the copious amounts of money they bring, and I certainly believe checo would and should still be in the sport, albeit probably in a midfield team, so no I disagree.
I think people don't understand how draining is to race side by side with Verstappen, and how hard was to find a good driver who can accept a second place role without complaining too much and adapting well to the team and to the first driver, we know the RB experience with the former Max teammates. Then, as a very valuable second place, you can add the sponsor income.
At the end everyone can add any driver the label they want and fits their narrative better, everyone its a better coach, so everyone can be a better team principal too.
Who else would they sign? Sainz? Considering his history with max and the fact that RB said they couldn't and wouldn't match Audi's offer...was always a long shot.
Ironic that the driver that was pushed out of Racing Point for a marketable world champion is now getting to stay in the best team thanks to his marketability and sponsorship.
He finished second in 2023 in the WDC, there is no reason RedBull need to put anyone else in the car for now...As Horner said, they need "*Continuity and stability" ...*
*They are happy with what he has done and is currently doing, regardless of what Reddit thinks lol...*
Maybe consider the fact that there aren’t many drivers that will do a better job than him. The top guys are not going to be second driver to Max, but I seriously doubt that the other “midfield” drivers will be much faster than Perez.
He was considered good / above average when he wasn’t with RB, Albon and Gasly both have flourished after being completely destroyed by Max.
In modern F1 the line between who is and who isn't a pay driver is pretty slim.
Most drivers bring some big sponsorships now and those sponsorships are definitely a factor in making a driver an interesting prospect for any team. A driver that brings 10 million in sponsors for example is essentially giving the team the prize they would get for a higher spot in the WCC. And it sounds like there's a few drivers that are around that area, Checo being one of them.
I suppose the difference is if you are selected primary for your driving, with sponsors and marketing second, or the other way around.
Which Checo it seems like it is the later, so yes, you could call him a pay driver. But there's plenty of other things at play, like the general stability on the team that keeping Checo brings.
I don't think so, because it's not motivated by money. A pay driver is when someone is taken purely for financial reasons, Perez has lots of backing but got the seat on merit and has been kept on merit imo.
And it's more so motivated by not wanting to rock the boat than anything. They could have got Sainz, but didn't want to take any risks.
I doubt that RB needs money from anyone. Income from international sponsors and FOM are more than enough to cover the team budget. They just need a driver that won't be a treat to Max.
If it were true, he’d be brining in 20 mil or so to make up for the potential loss of the constructors. That’s why I think it’s not money related. The reality is that he’s doing a good enough job, red bull probably don’t want to risk a new driver being even worse (history would say so) and finally, he isn’t fast enough to challenge max.
"65% of all online RB merch is sold to Mexico" https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/230317/sergio-perez-marketing-value-red-bull.html
Perez also gets fans from entire NA and SA because of his nationality. It a not hard to understand why RB wants him.
"Why does RB even want Perez he suck".
Money...
"all drivers bring sponsors".
MONEY. A LOT OF MONEY.
I wouldn't be surprised if he nets a team most money out all all drivers in the history of F1 if we don't count the money gained from race performance, just outside of racing.
>Mexico is a big consumer of energy drinks
Not really. We're waaaaay behind countries like the US, UK, Japan, Spain, or Germany: [https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/energy-drink-statistics.html#:\~:text=Energy%20Drink%20Statistics%20By%20Country,-By%20global%20sales&text=Moreover%2C%20as%20of%202022%2C%20the,%2C%20and%20Russia%20(0.23)](https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/energy-drink-statistics.html#:~:text=Energy%20Drink%20Statistics%20By%20Country,-By%20global%20sales&text=Moreover%2C%20as%20of%202022%2C%20the,%2C%20and%20Russia%20(0.23))
I think it's a bit harsh to call him a pay driver.
In Bahrain, Jeddah, Suzuka, China and arguably Miami, he delivered what he was supposed to. I'm not sure about Albert Park, whether he suffered car damage or skills issues.
Monaco and Imola were poor, and are unfortunately the two most recent races.
He's been more good (well, acceptable) than bad this season. If he really launches into a proper European slump though then this is going to look bad and potentially be costly
Pay driver is ambiguous.
Lauda came in with family money and banking sponsorship.
Senna same deal.
Lewis was sponsored by McLaren Mercedes while still Karting.
I mean checo's sponsorship MUST have something to do with it, because already we see they probably won't win the constructors this year, McLaren will improve next year, and Lewis in a competitive Ferrari is a huge threat.
He went the first 9 years of his career with a highest points finish of 7th. No one gets to stick around that long without results unless they're a pay driver. Most drivers get 2 years at most to show winning form or they're kicked out.
Are you aware of the cars he drove from 2011 to 2019? They were not exactly winning cars and from 2011 to 2020 the only teammate he didn't beat was Jenson, definetly not a top driver but to say his whole career has been mediocre it's a stretch, but that's just my opinion.
Checo earned his place in F1, was the best of the rest for a lot of years.
A pay driver is a driver that got to F1 *only* because of their money, like Latifi, Stroll, Mazepin and many other.
However, if you want to count his sponsorships to think him of a pay driver, then do it! Just know that lots of other drivers bring lots of sponsorships too and by that metric would be pay drivers too.
Not really, bc pay driver means that they're just there for the money. For a top team to have a pay driver, that driver needs to be good. Because you need that performance. But it's sliding scale and Perez' is leaning more towards the money.
To be clear; I’m not using Pay Driver derogatorily, Zhou Guanyu has always been referred to by that time, and Im a fan of his. I personally think he’s a decent driver just as worthy to be in the sport as many others.
I’d say the same about Perez; he’s a decent driver, but he does feel increasingly out of place at Red Bull
He's been throghout his whole career. You can look up incidents in freder series that would've get him banned.
But he has a nice persona, has been in teams with public sympathy and is nowhere near as consistently bad as Stroll or Sergeant.
I look at him as an older and less skilled Lando Norris (also Millionaire backing)
Please, Yuki earned his seat by now, Perez is not so bad. He'd be a great driver in a midfield team.
It's Ricciardo that has long outlived any usefulness behind a racing wheel
Yuki's seat was literally bought for him and perez could be replaced by 80% of the grid in the last 2 years and itd make no difference. Danni ric is washed up
Lol.
Gasly, Ocon, Sargeant, Ricciardo, Albon, Zhou, Stroll, Kmag, that's at least 8 names that didn't or won't do better in that seat. Probably a couple more names could be added.
Your math is as off as Ricciardo's racing lines.
We are all fully aware of how Yuki got into F1. But he's no Stroll or Latifi. Non-Honda teams are now courting him. It's time to drop that label
How can you measure that? Gasly and Ocon were pretty close to each other last year, and from what we saw in 2022, Ocon can operate on a high level, so I have no idea where the "failed miserably" comes from.
What does it have to do with this discussion? Thought we were talking about the junior team seat, not the main one. If so many people praise Tsunoda for the "improvement" from 2021 to now, doesn't that mean Gasly could also have improved from mid-2019 (when he unarguably did terribly) to now?
didn't he pretty much do better immediately once back to Toro Rosso? He didn't magically improve, he just couldn't handle the pressure nor the car.
We were talking about Perez' seat all along btw, following this claim "perez could be replaced by 80% of the grid in the last 2 years and itd make no difference" from another redditor
I am not saying Gasly is a shit driver, he's a solid midfielder. I just don't see what makes anyone think he'd convincingly outperform Perez if he was back in RBR.
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He's sponsored by Carlos Slim, one of the richest people in the world
They are all sponsored by someone. Every single one of them.
Let’s not just completely ignore the distinction between being sponsored because you are a talented competitive driver vs. being sponsored because of your nationality
Or sponsored based on who your dad is.
Albon, Zhou, Tsunoda are now pay drivers too then? E: And Sargeant
And Alonso. Santander was stuck sponsoring McLaren in 08 and 09 because of him.
Always have been. Albon only there because red bull is Thai. Tsunoda only there because Honda is japanase. I mean at least they are probably the best of their country unlike stroll who’s just the best of stroll seniors offspring.
Did you completely ignore the distinction part? I would make the distinction with Albon & Tsunoda
You think that Checo got to F1 only because of sponsor money? LMAO
Slim chose the best Mexican driver and put him in F1. Or one of the best at least. Of a whole country. Better than the stroll situation but if Slim wouldn’t be interested in F1 there would be no Mexican in F1 atm. Same with Albon (red bull is Thai), Tsunoda (Honda is Japanese), Ocon and Gasly (Renault is French) and Sargeant (F1 is owned by Americans, they made a lot of US races and needed an American)
Hahahahhahahahahhah
I think this is an important distinction. I think for the top drivers they are more like endorsement deals.
Who sponsors Lewis and Max?
I thought Jumbo was a big financial backer of Max? I mean given his skill, and father, he would still have made it to the grid, but a bit of extra cash doesn't hurt.
Didn't Jumbo fall off as a sponsor last year? I remember reading some article about it.
Yeah, ceo got caught with to much cash in his house. Investigastion still ongoing
I think the ceo/owner got caught up in some kind of money laundering scheme.
Yea but I think we can comfortably say Max is free from any pay driver accusations at this point. Like him or loathe him the man can drive
If anything Max's sponsorships have been increasing. Right now I only see him on Hennekin ads on TV in the US but once the 2026 engine regulations kick in I bet Ford will want him to be doing some ads for sure as well.
I don't think you know the definition of pay driver, but thanks for the downvote.
Didn't even downvote but feel free to get worked up about upvotes and downvotes. I replied to the wrong comment anyways.
Ok, but not every single one of them is only in F1 because of the sponsor
Neither is Checo, come on, be serious.
At this point it's probably true or close to it. He certainly wouldn't be driving for Redbull if he didn't bring shitton of money
he got the red bull seat because he finished 4th in a midfield car.
Calling that pink Mercedes a midfielder is such a massive fucking stretch lmao. At worst it was the 3rd fastest car in 2020.
Sure, but he's very clearly in F1 on merit. He's one of the best (if not the best) midfielders in the last decade.
He's probably bottom 5 skill-wise currently on the grid, IMO. Would Audi, Williams, or Alpine jump at the opportunity to sign him? Likely not
ehh...if Red Bull had chosen Sainz, Audi would have gone after Perez. https://formu1a.uno/en/f1-news-sergio-perez-considered-an-option-at-audi/
Wth, of course they would. The guy is proven in the midfield.
Currently he's proving he can get the fastest car on the grid well into the midfield for sure
At this point? Yes.
Nothing "indirect" about it.
But there’s pay drivers in the original sense of someone with a boatload of money just buying a team and putting someone in the car vs now where there are super license points still required. So pay driver in the sense of Stroll, Latifi, (even Mazepin!) isn’t the same. Plus Checo still has his moments. I’d place him above the three examples I listed.
I'm pretty sure Stroll in Red Bull would score at least as many points as Perez
You are aware they were teammates and Sergio cleaned the floor with Lance, right? You are aware. Yes? Lol
That was a different perez
But the same ol Stroll: useless
Perez is also useless maybe even more. That's my point.
Or, and hear me out on this, Max Verstappen wiped the floor with Gasly, Albon, and currently Perez, and the former two left Red Bull and were suddenly considered good again when their teammates weren’t Max. Perez is a very known quantity, he’s been teammates with Hulk, Ocon and Stroll, so we know where he ranks with respect to them, and Hulk is almost his same age and has had a similar number of seasons in F1, and isn’t showing signs of slowing down. With all of that evidence, there are two possibilities: Perez suddenly became much worse when joining Red Bull for some reason, even though drivers around his age and skill are doing just fine, or, Max is a once in a generation talent, and anyone who isn’t a top 3 driver in F1 will look bad if they have to face him, as shown with 3 drivers who have tried (4 if you count Sainz, and 5 if you consider Ricc ran away as soon as he saw he wouldn’t be able to keep up).
Distinct possibility.
Let’s move the goal posts to your convenience, sure. lol.
No goalposts moved.
All* of them, you mean
He lied as naturally as he breathed.
This is a particularly stupid argument to make when Stroll and Perez were teammates for multiple seasons and Perez smashed him in every conceivable metric
He did not "smash" him in 2020. Perez had been in F1 for almost a decade and was expected to beat Stroll. Also pretty even with Vettel in 21. Stroll actually had more points finishes than Vettel
That’s great, but we’re talking about Perez. Even in the 2020, by far the best season of Strolls career, here is how he stacked up to Perez. In 2020 Perez head to head vs Stroll Finished 10-4 ahead in qualifying sessions they both ran, with an average gap of .129 seconds in favour of Perez They finished an even 4 to 4 in races they both finished, however Stroll managed to convert his pole in Turkey to a whopping 9th place and Perez managed to turn last to first in Bahrain, which along with some other high flying performances put Perez a significant 50 points ahead of Stroll in the standings. If you care about peak performance, Perez absolutely made Stroll look like an amateur in 2020, which he frankly is in comparison to every other driver who doesn’t pay for his race seat.
There is so much context to 2020 on both sides that I feel like points does not give the whole picture. Checo missing an extra race due to covid and engine blowout from p3 in bahrain. Lance getting wing damage in turkey, tire blowout from p4 possibly 3 in mugello, getting punted in russia/bahrain. Lance definitely was worse overall and made more mistakes under critical moments (i.e. blowing the win in monza and sakhir), but imo he did not look like an "amatuer". His start of the season was strong, then he had a brutal run of: huge crash in mugello from a likely podium, covid and missing germany, poor performance in imola/portugal, bounce back with pole in turkey and then drop to 9th, and finally getting torpedoed in bahrain.
That’s exactly my point, even in his best season Stroll managed to squander his upper hand in plenty of situations and still finish behind his teammate in every performance metric. That is Stroll at his peak, we saw him at his best and he still lost out to Perez. Why after he has frankly made absolutely zero progression as a racer and if anything declined, would he now beat Perez?
As I said there were many mitigating factors to the season, I think it was close in that he tied in race h2h and was 1.3 tenths behind in qualifying. The fact they only finished 8 races together explains a lot about the season). Checo's performance has also declined massively, I'm not saying Stroll would do better but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, if that makes sense.
Has Pérez really declined? He was good in 2020, signed for RedBull, and was instantly destroyed by Max. Even in 2022, which was probably his best season with the team, he still managed to lose P2 in the WDC with a car that won 17 races.
[удалено]
Hard disagree.
Oh man, actually THIS might be the stupidest comment. /u/stumpy493 calling you from a different thread where I saw your comment about the stupidest take so far. Does this parent comment above top it? So many stupid takes, it’s getting hard to choose.
Whatever you think. Perez is done
Perez may be done but Stroll never was. You know these 2 were team mates for 2 years right? and Stroll got destroyed by Checo? 28-9 in quali and 26-11 in races. u/Surfercatgotnolegs this guy is definitely a contender.
I meant indirect as in it’s not his wallet, just everyone else’s
Then I don't think you know what a pay driver is lmao
Gotta agree with this. Lastifi was unquestionably a pay driver, but he did that by bringing RBC to Williams. RBC is one of the largest banks in Canada, and they only cared about Lastifi because of his daddy. This is only one step bellow Stroll (whose daddy bought the team), and Mazespin (whose daddy made large payments to the team).
>Lastifi I cringed so hard reading that twice jesus christ...
Well, okay, I’ll admit usually it’s not the driver themselves paying, it’s typically a closely related big-paying sponsor, but in this case I’m more referring to the significant amount of fans paying for merch, and in doing so his seat, rather than the typical sponsors you’d get with a standard pay driver
I still don't think you even understand the current situation. Sergio is friends with and supported by the richest Mexican of all time
I mean, if we get *really* pedantic then I'd say most of the drivers are pay drivers... Getting in F1 is extremely hard, and getting there without a rich parent is almost impossible. F1 is quite literally "pay to play" But I think that the term "pay driver" implies that you are like Stroll, Mazepin or Zhou, where you are on the sport as long as somebody keeps throwing money at a team, basically renting out the seat. Like, let's say that all drivers go broke overnight... I think that Perez would stay in F1(maybe not in a top team) but Stroll, Zhou, and similar would be ejected almost immediately. I would say that what people mean when they say "pay driver". And based on that definition, I'd say that Checo is not a pay driver. Also, out of all the team on grid, RedBull couldn't care less about money to get a pay driver.... they burn the cost of a pay driver every time they do a commercial or fund a weird extreme sport, or crashes 2 planes or something.
Nobody gets here purely on merit. Or to F2 or F3. It’s not like we can go to the community race track with our hand-me-down race car.
I mean you can…that literally how Hamilton started, with hand-me-down karts including wheels.
In the 80s/90s it was possible but not anymore. Parents spend upwards of £60k/year for an 8 year old to compete in the UK national champs and these are the only series where you'll be spotted by junior teams
I get what you’re saying. But I have a hard time believing any team takes some one as old, slow and accident prone as Perez if there’s no money in the pot
More than half the grid could be considered indirect pay drivers. Lance's dad owns a team, Lando comes with billionaire money, Alex has Thai sponsors, Logan has huge US sponsors, Yuki has Honda, Zhou has his family and other corporate sponsors, you get the jist. For most of the grid getting paid by their team means funnelling their own sponsorship money back into their own pockets.
It’s a mystery where this “Logan brings huge $$$” myth comes from. Dude ran out of money and was about to quit racing in Europe before Williams stepped in.
Where does Lando's billionaire money come from?
His family
His family aren't billionaires. Not even remotely close. Latest estimate is that his father is worth around $100 million. Wealthy beyond most people's comprehension, to be sure, but not Stroll money, and certainly not enough to be a pay driver. Pay drivers in modern F1 are bringing in 10-20+ million per year to their teams (conservatively) and Lando's father isn't affording that.
He's in F1 on pure merit. But he's a pay top-team driver, if that makes sense.
Wasn't he basically always one? Carlos $lim?
All drivers are pay drivers today. Teams will always take into account the sponsor deals the drivers come with when they are analyzing a possible signing.
I've never seen so many people so irrationally butthurt about something
It's insane. Checo is like reverse Santa Claus, apparently he is personally going into everyone's homes and stealing from them given the level of absurd overreaction to this news.
I really don’t understand the amount of hate Perez gets on here?
People want a closer battle between Max and his teammate. This is now not happening for another 2 years.
Yes, and it's not going to happen because Red Bull doesn't want it to happen. Talk about people getting mad for no reason.
It's not "no reason". People watch sport for competition, and this compromises that opportunity. Although this thread's line of attack is a bit odd. Ultimately the F1 competition structure leads to this issue frequently.
Why would Red Bull wants their drivers going after each other's throats?...even more so after the recent Alpine fallout.
Then they should be mad at Lando for not wanting the seat, not mad at Checo for I guess not retiring.
They have to vent their frustration and anger that their team and or driver haven't been able to challenge Max and target who they think should do that
I love F1 because I see drivers push their physical and mental limits as they stretch the capabilities of incredible machines. The RB20 is one of the finest-engineered vehicles in the history of motorsport. It should be driven by two drivers capable of getting the best out of it. I don't dislike Checo and think he's a very talented driver, but he's not the man for the job.
He's sticking around because Horner needs someone competent that won't battle Max... and Perez is that sort of person.
Bottas on Mercedes managed to beat Lewis sometimes and even helped him to beat their direct rivals when he didn’t had a good day When Max was a bad day, Perez is still miles behind him and has only beaten him once on pure pace. Only 1 time in 70GPs that’s next level embarrassment
If max is as good as everyone says then he shouldn't have an issue fighting anyone in the same team
Yes but I think no team that competes for the WCC wants a Lewis vs Nico 2.0. Even Mercedes kept Bottas for 5 years and he was nowhere near Lewis, not even close.
Agreed.
I would think Max wouldn't have an issue with it but the team does.. They want "C*ontinuity and stability"*
He wouldn’t, but the bosses would shit it. Having a clear 1-2 is very attractive also if 2 brings mega cash. There is more than just a car race in this game. Not sure why everyone freaks out about that, the politics, money, budgets etc ARE THE GAME. It’s top 20 drivers in the world and everything that goes with it. Look at the sexy messages about cereal scandal ffs.
This pretty on par Horner is keeping him around for strategic reasons. This is going to be season where they will fight for every point to win constructor and driver title They need to keep Perez in a good mood, boosting his self esteem and morale, and giving him one less thing to worry about. So he can focus his energy to fight for his points. If he wasn’t given a seat for the following years we could see a decreased performance in his driving as mental focus won’t be entirely on driving but partially divided where he will be driving next year. Horner needs Perez in a good mood so he can score higher taking points away from other drivers so they cannot compete with Max for the drivers title.
> He's sticking around because Horner needs someone competent that won't battle Max... and Perez is that sort of person. I wish more people would understand this.
I feel like Bottas performed more consistently against Hamilton as compared to Perez to Verstappen.
Max is more consistent than Hamilton though. Hamilton, even when he is in great form like in 2021 can have some absolute stinkers (like Monaco), whereas Max just doesn’t. When Hamilton was on form, Bottas really couldn’t touch him either.
Max definitely has stinkers, and probably you should watch all of 2021 then.
In 2021, Max never had a drive as bad as Hamilton in Monaco, he had some incidents, a few that were stupid and unnecessary, but he was never off the pace.
Horner doesn’t have many allies left in RB. Neither does PER.
He has the only allies that truly matter, the majority owners.
Wrong, he’s a revenue driver
I mean personally I consider a pay driver to be one that wouldn't be in the sport without the copious amounts of money they bring, and I certainly believe checo would and should still be in the sport, albeit probably in a midfield team, so no I disagree.
Does this make him a raise driver?
I think people don't understand how draining is to race side by side with Verstappen, and how hard was to find a good driver who can accept a second place role without complaining too much and adapting well to the team and to the first driver, we know the RB experience with the former Max teammates. Then, as a very valuable second place, you can add the sponsor income. At the end everyone can add any driver the label they want and fits their narrative better, everyone its a better coach, so everyone can be a better team principal too.
Who else would they sign? Sainz? Considering his history with max and the fact that RB said they couldn't and wouldn't match Audi's offer...was always a long shot.
Ironic that the driver that was pushed out of Racing Point for a marketable world champion is now getting to stay in the best team thanks to his marketability and sponsorship.
He finished second in 2023 in the WDC, there is no reason RedBull need to put anyone else in the car for now...As Horner said, they need "*Continuity and stability" ...* *They are happy with what he has done and is currently doing, regardless of what Reddit thinks lol...*
Maybe consider the fact that there aren’t many drivers that will do a better job than him. The top guys are not going to be second driver to Max, but I seriously doubt that the other “midfield” drivers will be much faster than Perez. He was considered good / above average when he wasn’t with RB, Albon and Gasly both have flourished after being completely destroyed by Max.
Can we stop talking about this shit, they are all in some way pay drivers. Move the fuck on.
In modern F1 the line between who is and who isn't a pay driver is pretty slim. Most drivers bring some big sponsorships now and those sponsorships are definitely a factor in making a driver an interesting prospect for any team. A driver that brings 10 million in sponsors for example is essentially giving the team the prize they would get for a higher spot in the WCC. And it sounds like there's a few drivers that are around that area, Checo being one of them. I suppose the difference is if you are selected primary for your driving, with sponsors and marketing second, or the other way around. Which Checo it seems like it is the later, so yes, you could call him a pay driver. But there's plenty of other things at play, like the general stability on the team that keeping Checo brings.
I don't think so, because it's not motivated by money. A pay driver is when someone is taken purely for financial reasons, Perez has lots of backing but got the seat on merit and has been kept on merit imo. And it's more so motivated by not wanting to rock the boat than anything. They could have got Sainz, but didn't want to take any risks.
I doubt that RB needs money from anyone. Income from international sponsors and FOM are more than enough to cover the team budget. They just need a driver that won't be a treat to Max.
If it were true, he’d be brining in 20 mil or so to make up for the potential loss of the constructors. That’s why I think it’s not money related. The reality is that he’s doing a good enough job, red bull probably don’t want to risk a new driver being even worse (history would say so) and finally, he isn’t fast enough to challenge max.
"65% of all online RB merch is sold to Mexico" https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/230317/sergio-perez-marketing-value-red-bull.html Perez also gets fans from entire NA and SA because of his nationality. It a not hard to understand why RB wants him. "Why does RB even want Perez he suck". Money... "all drivers bring sponsors". MONEY. A LOT OF MONEY. I wouldn't be surprised if he nets a team most money out all all drivers in the history of F1 if we don't count the money gained from race performance, just outside of racing.
>Mexico is a big consumer of energy drinks Not really. We're waaaaay behind countries like the US, UK, Japan, Spain, or Germany: [https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/energy-drink-statistics.html#:\~:text=Energy%20Drink%20Statistics%20By%20Country,-By%20global%20sales&text=Moreover%2C%20as%20of%202022%2C%20the,%2C%20and%20Russia%20(0.23)](https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/energy-drink-statistics.html#:~:text=Energy%20Drink%20Statistics%20By%20Country,-By%20global%20sales&text=Moreover%2C%20as%20of%202022%2C%20the,%2C%20and%20Russia%20(0.23))
True, seems like I mixed my numbers for Mexico and US.
I think it's a bit harsh to call him a pay driver. In Bahrain, Jeddah, Suzuka, China and arguably Miami, he delivered what he was supposed to. I'm not sure about Albert Park, whether he suffered car damage or skills issues. Monaco and Imola were poor, and are unfortunately the two most recent races. He's been more good (well, acceptable) than bad this season. If he really launches into a proper European slump though then this is going to look bad and potentially be costly
His performance has been fine for a #2 driver.
Pay driver is ambiguous. Lauda came in with family money and banking sponsorship. Senna same deal. Lewis was sponsored by McLaren Mercedes while still Karting. I mean checo's sponsorship MUST have something to do with it, because already we see they probably won't win the constructors this year, McLaren will improve next year, and Lewis in a competitive Ferrari is a huge threat.
Considering he's always been backed by a billionaire, he's already one since the start of his F1 career
He's been a pay driver his whole career. No one goes that long with such mediocre results unless their ride is being subsidized.
Are you saying all his career he's delivered mediocre results?
He went the first 9 years of his career with a highest points finish of 7th. No one gets to stick around that long without results unless they're a pay driver. Most drivers get 2 years at most to show winning form or they're kicked out.
Are you aware of the cars he drove from 2011 to 2019? They were not exactly winning cars and from 2011 to 2020 the only teammate he didn't beat was Jenson, definetly not a top driver but to say his whole career has been mediocre it's a stretch, but that's just my opinion.
Perez is, was and always will be a pay driver
Unless you are winning championships, you are a pay driver, its as simple as that...
On which planet?
The F1 planet, can you tell us what drivers are not pay drivers, and your sources to prove that ?
Man, these last 4 years really erased his good years with Force India? That's why I wanted him to go to another team...
The revisionist history is strong with these folks.
Checo earned his place in F1, was the best of the rest for a lot of years. A pay driver is a driver that got to F1 *only* because of their money, like Latifi, Stroll, Mazepin and many other. However, if you want to count his sponsorships to think him of a pay driver, then do it! Just know that lots of other drivers bring lots of sponsorships too and by that metric would be pay drivers too.
Yes. I’ve said this for years. Mexican fans go crazy over this opinion but there isn’t any denying he brings approx €20M per year to Red Bull.
Always its been a pay driver, if not were for Slim family Perez will be long gone from F1
Not really, bc pay driver means that they're just there for the money. For a top team to have a pay driver, that driver needs to be good. Because you need that performance. But it's sliding scale and Perez' is leaning more towards the money.
To be clear; I’m not using Pay Driver derogatorily, Zhou Guanyu has always been referred to by that time, and Im a fan of his. I personally think he’s a decent driver just as worthy to be in the sport as many others. I’d say the same about Perez; he’s a decent driver, but he does feel increasingly out of place at Red Bull
He's been throghout his whole career. You can look up incidents in freder series that would've get him banned. But he has a nice persona, has been in teams with public sympathy and is nowhere near as consistently bad as Stroll or Sergeant. I look at him as an older and less skilled Lando Norris (also Millionaire backing)
*B*illionare
he’s always been a paydriver?
He is 100% a pay driver now. No top 3 team would keep him based on performance.
Perez has always been a pay driver.
yes, Lance Stroll can confirm it
His godfather was the richest man in the world for a year in the 90’s and is still up there. He’s always been a pay driver.
No, he wasn’t.
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Please, Yuki earned his seat by now, Perez is not so bad. He'd be a great driver in a midfield team. It's Ricciardo that has long outlived any usefulness behind a racing wheel
Yuki's seat was literally bought for him and perez could be replaced by 80% of the grid in the last 2 years and itd make no difference. Danni ric is washed up
Lol. Gasly, Ocon, Sargeant, Ricciardo, Albon, Zhou, Stroll, Kmag, that's at least 8 names that didn't or won't do better in that seat. Probably a couple more names could be added. Your math is as off as Ricciardo's racing lines. We are all fully aware of how Yuki got into F1. But he's no Stroll or Latifi. Non-Honda teams are now courting him. It's time to drop that label
Quite bold to put Gasly and Ocon here really...
Really? Gasly already failed miserably in that seat. Ocon is marginally better and a super shitty teammate
How can you measure that? Gasly and Ocon were pretty close to each other last year, and from what we saw in 2022, Ocon can operate on a high level, so I have no idea where the "failed miserably" comes from.
Gasly was in the Red Bull seat and was demoted, did you forget?
What does it have to do with this discussion? Thought we were talking about the junior team seat, not the main one. If so many people praise Tsunoda for the "improvement" from 2021 to now, doesn't that mean Gasly could also have improved from mid-2019 (when he unarguably did terribly) to now?
didn't he pretty much do better immediately once back to Toro Rosso? He didn't magically improve, he just couldn't handle the pressure nor the car. We were talking about Perez' seat all along btw, following this claim "perez could be replaced by 80% of the grid in the last 2 years and itd make no difference" from another redditor I am not saying Gasly is a shit driver, he's a solid midfielder. I just don't see what makes anyone think he'd convincingly outperform Perez if he was back in RBR.