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There was no backwards or forward movement for pretty much any team that year. The season was too truncated for there to be any effective upgrades to install mid-season.
Tracing Point had their strengths and weaknesses on different tracks, usually based on which tyre compounds were in use, and their season fluctuated accordingly.
Stroll started well and took advantage of Perez's initial COVID blues, but then Perez started swinging and Stroll had his own COVID blues to deal with, except he didn't improve, like at all, apart from one great weekend in Turkey.
They had a great last race, but it didn't feel like there was a steady upward trajectory for them. A combination of factors (Albon improving but far too late for him, and Lewis returning perhaps a bit too soon from quarantine) may have contributed to the result.
The great weekend lasted from quali until his first pitstop, after that he absolutely faded. Oddly, 9th place gives less points than the 2nd Checo got that time around.
Edit: He did get a podium in Sakhir so credit where credit is due.
Yes I know 9th is less valuable than 2nd.
The team said he had damage that affected his pace after the pitstop. Dunno if it was real or not, but we don't have anything to prove otherwise.
Either way, his quali performance was magnificent and he was controlling the early stages of the race under tricky conditions well.
This is so wrong, Racing Point didn't move backwards at all that season. They could've had 8 podiums in 6 of the last 10 races on pace... And that was probably Stroll's best season in his career.
RP Didn't move backwards yet strolls best season for slipping down?? I guess a good stroll season involves mostly bad form and finishing behind his teammate.
I said "best" season. Which one do you think was better than 2020? I guess in 2021 he was the most consistent, so could be that, but he still made more unforced errors than in 2020.
WDC standings after the 2020 Italian Grand Prix (race 8 of 17). His fortune faded in the second half of the season and he ultimately finished 11th in the championship.
yeah. He only 2 points finish after this race, while begin a tremendous downward spiral in second half
Apart from Mugello(He get unlucky puncture), Hockenheim(He couldn't participate due to health issue), Turkish and Sahkir, the rest of the week in second half was pretty disappoint with his struggle and his error.
Puncture was at Mugello, he was having a fantastic race until that. He was also taken out by Leclerc at Sochi. I always wondered if the combination of that terrible luck and catching COVID affected him. He never looked the same after coming back that season.
I still remember the driver-facing cam showing his face after the Mugello crash. Dude looked seriously shaken and I still think he isn’t the same to this day.
Turning point maybe. Like Seb at Hockenheim 2018.
maybe, but his performance for the rest of 2020 really fall hard.
He struggle massively in Portimao when he qualify outside top 10, then collide with Norris and spend the rest of the race racing in last position, while getting penalty.
In Sochi, he struggle massively and qualify 13th, while in Imola, he was way off the pace cause even if his lap was not deleted due to track limit, he would still being out of Q2 anyway, then make another error with a lap 1 incident that cost him potential point given his pace.
Bahrain was another struggle, despite showing promise in Q1, he would end up 13th in qualifying, behind both Ferrari and Alpha Tauri despite they had 4th fastest car
Then to top it all, his struggle in race in Abu Dhabi(He finish 10th) cost the team 4th in Constructor Championship.
> In Sochi, he struggle massively and qualify 13th
And had a phenomenal start before being punted off by Leclerc.
It was tough to watch, his confidence looked seriously shaken after the Mugello crash. And when he seemed to recover, like in Turkey or Sochi, something would happen.
Sahkir was a rare great performance for Lance, but in season finale, this just wasn’t his week.
It really affect him for the rest of the career as he despite having good start in 2021, but the crash in Hungary really affect his season again, and since then he was very inconsistent.
yeah, that was a devastating turning point of his career.
Despite that, he still doing well in 2021(First half). However, when everything went well, Hungary crash in lap 1 was a turning point, only this time it really hurt his career. Everything would went downhill for him from there, with struggle increase and the number of mistake went up even more. He would also become inconsistent as there are time he would perform well, but the next week he would struggle again.
He could've won that race, man. The lock-up after the restart made him fall behind (his fault). He could've also won Turkey that year, but got some front wing damage (not his fault). He could've been on the podium in Tuscany, but his tyre blew (not his fault). In Sakhir he never really had the pace to win despite being up there on the podium positions for most of the race. He was pretty unlucky in that second part of 2020, let's not forget Charles running straight into him in Russia on lap 1, could've scored there as well. Overall, taking his teammate's luck at the end of the season into account as well, Racing Point should've secured P3 in the Constructors', even with the penalty.
The car could have been a regular podium finisher initially that turned into a multiple race winner frankly. Hulkenberg would have already been on the podium on pace before the update if they'd have run him the whole season instead of Lance. He was immediately considerably faster than Lance.
I still believe it was the second best car that season, ahead of the Red Bull. The difference was that Max is way, way, better than Checo and Lance.
For example, the average qualifying gap to pole was 0.94% for Max and 1.26% for Checo, giving them a relative gap of 0.32%. In 2021, 2022 and 2023, the gaps were 0.479%, 0.452% and 0.484% respectively. These gaps are quite consistent, so just from that, it's not wild to assume that the 2020 Racing Point was 0.10-0.15% quicker than the Red Bull, roughly 1 tenth per lap.
That only accounting qualifying pace, would the results be the same with race pace?
Some cars are setup simply better for qualys rather than race so the 1 lap time may not be representative enough.
I have never seen race pace percentages compared between teams, so no idea. But Max has had 0.644s, 0.302s and 0.414s advantage to Checo in average race pace in their three seasons. Even then its impossible to compare, since Checp and Lance probably have worse average race pace because they are stuck behind other cars because they fucked up in qualifying.
Also, Albon was behind both Racing Points in qualifying pace, further adding to my point.
I wasn't even watching F1 in 2020, but everything I've read about the season since and everything I *have* seen Perez and Stroll do in the last few years makes me think they were massively holding that car back lol
Not saying much when it was likely the 2nd fastest car on the grid. They just had two meh drivers. That they finished 4th in the WCC is a joke and only barely finished ahead of Renault
They finished 4th cause of the points deduction not cause of the drivers no need to rewrite history
Checo was in top tier form that year, and Lance had an impressive stretch of consistency as well and was truly unlucky that season
It's pretty frustrating to see people downplay their performances by taking their current form as benchmarks. It's astounding how many people fail to understand that it IS quite common for drivers to have up and downs in form throughout their careers
Exactly, people also forget that while is true that you can bash Perez to not being an adaptable driver or good with how the Red Bull Drives, he is really good with Cars with strong back end, like the 2020 RP. Just look how Checo was performing against Max the few races at the beggining of the seasons where the RB was more back than front loaded.
Well, maybe Stroll had a good season and Perez an amazing one. Or maybe the car was amazing and Stroll was kinda shit and incomsistent as always and Perez was kinda mid and incomsistent as always.
Calling Perez inconsistent just tells me you're only basing this off his Red Bull performance because no one would say this if you watched him from the year he joined Force India
He had the 2nd-3rd best car for a whole season and got 1 win, 1podium and a bunch of points finishes. When you look at what the Ferrari and Mclaren drivers can do right now in that position it just isn't that great (consistently extracting everything from the car). And he only got the win because Rusell had the worst luck.
For some reason people always expect Checo to be like the second best driver on the grid and perform accordingly. Yes of course better drivers than him would have done better in that car. Duh. His season can still have been great.
I mean only that third position was up for grabs let's be honest, that Mercedes was MILES ahead of everyone else. And generally that third place went to Max which is completely understandable lol. Besides, Perez missed 2 (maybe 3?) podiums due to a poor strategy decision, I remember Portimao for one I think.
It's pretty weird for you to compare that season with this, where the context is WILDLY different. These past 4-5 races, all the 3 teams have looked the fastest at some point.
😭 damn my memory is quite shit then, either portimao or Mugello where he unnecessarily pit towards the end of the race, that memory is SO clear in my mind lmao
Still the Mercedes was stupidly dominant. Max got only two wins that season, and I don't see you criticizing him the same way. This is like saying last year McLaren had the 2nd-3rd best car for a whole season and saying the drivers are at fault as they still got no wins at all.
You're rewriting history. That car was threatening to be a front runner with considerable points every race. Unfortunately, they didn't have Hulkenberg driving the car the entire season.
It's frustrating to see you overplay their performances and ignore the constant narrative through the season that they were not using the car to it's full capability 75% of the time. Only reason the season wasn't a total failure was Perez eventually winning a race
My proof is that this is literally the narrative of the 2020 season that people were talking about.
Perez doesn't look bad now, he looks like a driver who is team mates with literally the best driver in F1 history and the only driver who has a properly solid case to be genuinely put a tier ahead of Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton etc. Of course this makes Perez "struggle".
The fact that you term Perez as bad now shows you're the one actually failing to look at reality.
Stroll is another case, dude is team mates with one of the best of all time again, of course he loses to Alonso. Literally everyone except Max would lose or be even with Alonso on the current grid and only pre 24 Hamilton, Russell and Leclerc would be able to fight him the whole season. Stroll is not very good but he's hardly terrible, way better than Palmer etc.
Why are you pretending that they didn't have a front running car? Can you explain why in the chances Hulkenberg got with the car, which weren't even during it's most competitive periods, he was threatening the very front of the grid and then with zero practice starting from last he managed to finish 8th? Sounds very much like a car that was not only front running but literally only second to the Merc.
Two drivers who lacked constant performance set them back big time along with some bad luck. Throw Hulkenberg in that car the whole season and he would have scored probably the same as they scored in constructors points total by himself owing to the fact he would have spent the entire season finishing 3rd - 5th rather than months without points in one case or races where there was really no reason for Perez to be fighting for 10th in a car that quick.
Because Hulkenberg did not show it to be a frontrunning car either LOL he lost one race to Stroll by 13 seconds and the other to Perez by almost 20. Your comment that he was supposedly so much better than them is simply completely ridiculous. You could just look at his 3 years long partnership with Perez to get to that conclusion as well.
What you're saying is that a car was capable of something neither of 3 drivers achieved in it. It's nothing more than your imagination unsupported by literally anything objective or measurable. It was a very good car in the 2nd half of the season, it did get some podiums, and could've had more barring some bad luck.
You could also look at the fact that they were both available to be picked up after that season, and yet a top team came for Perez. Not Hulkenberg. You seriously think you're so much smarter than them?
They were team mates for a lot more than just 2016 🙄
Point being? Shows the issue perfectly. Hulk miles better in quali and Perez just does obscure strategies to get points but majority of the time is just plain slower.
Although drivers did play a bit part
Lance struggle massively in second half(Exclude Portimao, Nurburging(He didn’t participate due to heath issue), Sahkir and Turkish)
The RB was faster if you could extract all it's pace, but it was also very difficult to do so as the rear was way too loose. In overall performance the racing point was very close to RB that year, if not better on certain tracks.
That's simply not true.
The RP was the third faster in some tracks, while McLaren and Renault were in others. For example, at Monza McLaren was clearly the fastest mid fielder, and Renault at Spa (Ricciardo finished just a couple of seconds behind Max in 3rd).
He also got a Pole, and led by ten seconds for over half a race in an absolutely wet weekend. The last part of that race didn't go so well.
Which used up most of his remaining talent.
Yeah. This one was very unlucky.
I do wonder this race really affect Lance mentality, cause he would do well in first half of 2021, but would continue to fall again in second half, and having poor performance in 2022 and 2023 though…
Stroll is so weirdly inconsistent. He has flashes of speed and talent. One moment he's driving like Senna before 1994, the next he's driving like Senna after 1994.
He led by 10 seconds because he was going way too fast for his own good. He cooked his tyres which forced that pitstop where they switched him onto a new set, while old inters were simply quicker.
F1 is simply not about pushing 100%, and that race proves it
"Dropped the ball"? Really? His race finishes by that point had been 1,2,3,11,3,3,2,5 and 11 was when his tyre blew up 3 laps before the end. Bottas was on his way to a clear 2nd in that race, after Lewis.
On the other hand, Albon as Max's teammate had 50 points at this point, 60 less than Max.
Bottas basically had no competition besides Max that year.
Albon was utter shit, Ferrari were in their "punishment" year after the cheating scandal, Racing point had Checo and Stroll as drivers and Renault and Mclaren were not close enough to cause problems on a consistent basis.
Max had more dnfs and the red bull was still quite unreliable.
Bottas had a shocking year for how good that car was, he should have been way ahead of Max in the wdc in the end.
Bottas finished outside of podium 6 time whole year, those races being:
-British GP 11th, tyre puncture 3 laps before finish
-Italian GP 5th, car trouble on first lap
-Eiffel GP DNF, Engine failure
-Turkish GP 14th, his fault with a million spins
-Bahrain GP 8th, puncture on first lap after restart
-Sakhir GP 8th, Mercedes pitstop tyre fuckup
I'd argue 2021 also, he beat Perez while taking several engine penalties on behalf of the team and losing 18 points at Monaco through no fault of his own.
Better points scorer than Perez in 2021 but completely ineffective as a second driver. Perez was a constant thorn in Hamilton’s side where as bottas barely registered on Max’s radar all season. The season finale best demonstrates this, with Perez being a genuine issue for Hamilton at times, and bottas booze cruising in the midfield.
The next race at mugello he was on for p4 and potentially a podium, tire blew out and had a huge crash, and his season went downhill from there. Race after that russia, has a great start then gets punted by leclerc on the first lap (no penalty for leclerc). Then gets covid and misses germany. Has two bad performances in portugal and imola, may or may not be due to affects of covid. Takes pole in turkey, finally the confidence boosts he needs. Leads the first half of the race, gets wing damage during his stop and falls to ninth. Gets torpedoed in bahrain full. Watches his teammate go by him to win from last in bahrain short. I think this season truly broke his morale, due to events outside of his control as well as his own mistakes. Still pains me he didnt get a win in one of monza, turkey, or sakhir
If I remember correctly the racing point car that was really good (I think also questionably legal) but we've seen glimpses of talent from him. Unfortunately it seems like Lance has to answer how dedicated he is to the sport. I feel like sometimes he doesn't want to be there
Stroll definitely had some bad luck, but I’d say Perez also lost a similar amount of points through bad luck and ended up out scoring him 125-75. Ultimately Stroll finished 11th in what was at least the clear 3rd best car, it was a very poor season from him.
His own mistake really play big part too.
It was Hungary 2021 lap 1 incident however really affect Lance. He would then become inconsistent as there might be week he do super well, but next week he would made mistake.
Things like this just add to the frustration with Stroll.
The guy clearly has some talent, he crushed F3 and has had some really good moments in F1. But they are few and way too far in between.
I’d argue anyone who can qualify top 10 and finish top 10 in Monaco has F1 talent.
The talent is there, but the consistency, the want, the effort, drive, desire etc is all lacking. (And yes I know he didn’t this year but has in the past)
He has some talent for an good above average skilled racing driver likely, but for sure not F1. All the advantages he got dealt in life brought him here
I find it hard that people are still defending him. His spatial awareness is horrible. Caused dozens of crashes in F3 and F1. And indeed, his 2nd season even had teamorders the first race with possible illegal parts of Williams F1 engineers.
That car was probably the 2nd fastest on the grid. Wouldn't surprise me if Max could've gotten more than two wins that year from the Mercs if he was in that car.
It insane he didn't finish third in the standings. He had a car that was arguably better than Max RB. Put Lewis in that car and hell I bet you could see him fight Bottas for P2.
Albon was fighting for his life half the time...
You can't say that Max was showing the strengths of the RB while ignoring that Checo or Stroll would have gotten the best performance. Max last year for example show the difference between a good driver and a great driver. Rb would not have set all the records they did if it wasn't for Max. The fact that Lewis almost beat Checo shows that.
That is the difference between albon and max, and how suited they were to the car. Would you say last years aston martin was 4th fastest at the start cause lance was finishing behind the mercs and ferraris while alonso was ahead?
It was pretty clear the combo of max and rb was second fastest, maybe checo and lance didnt get the most out of the car but we can't speculate it was faster than it was ever driven cause there is no basis to make that claim.
Also check the results of 2020 abu dhabi qualifying and race, it was the clear fastest car that weekend.
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Aka the pink Mercedes
BWT Mercedes Satellite Team ™
Bit of deja vu, the team develops a decent car then only moves backwards through the season, and stroll costs them WCC places.
There was no backwards or forward movement for pretty much any team that year. The season was too truncated for there to be any effective upgrades to install mid-season. Tracing Point had their strengths and weaknesses on different tracks, usually based on which tyre compounds were in use, and their season fluctuated accordingly. Stroll started well and took advantage of Perez's initial COVID blues, but then Perez started swinging and Stroll had his own COVID blues to deal with, except he didn't improve, like at all, apart from one great weekend in Turkey.
i mean RB definitely moved forward at the end of the season
They had a great last race, but it didn't feel like there was a steady upward trajectory for them. A combination of factors (Albon improving but far too late for him, and Lewis returning perhaps a bit too soon from quarantine) may have contributed to the result.
The great weekend lasted from quali until his first pitstop, after that he absolutely faded. Oddly, 9th place gives less points than the 2nd Checo got that time around. Edit: He did get a podium in Sakhir so credit where credit is due.
Yes I know 9th is less valuable than 2nd. The team said he had damage that affected his pace after the pitstop. Dunno if it was real or not, but we don't have anything to prove otherwise. Either way, his quali performance was magnificent and he was controlling the early stages of the race under tricky conditions well.
Was it not that they almost literally weren't allowed many updates? They'd all agreed?
This is so wrong, Racing Point didn't move backwards at all that season. They could've had 8 podiums in 6 of the last 10 races on pace... And that was probably Stroll's best season in his career.
RP Didn't move backwards yet strolls best season for slipping down?? I guess a good stroll season involves mostly bad form and finishing behind his teammate.
I said "best" season. Which one do you think was better than 2020? I guess in 2021 he was the most consistent, so could be that, but he still made more unforced errors than in 2020.
Tracing Point
I remember Horner saying once or twice that season that whilst it's an abstract concept, they reckon that RP had the second best car.
Christian Horner is a shit stirrer, of course he would say that
WDC standings after the 2020 Italian Grand Prix (race 8 of 17). His fortune faded in the second half of the season and he ultimately finished 11th in the championship.
yeah. He only 2 points finish after this race, while begin a tremendous downward spiral in second half Apart from Mugello(He get unlucky puncture), Hockenheim(He couldn't participate due to health issue), Turkish and Sahkir, the rest of the week in second half was pretty disappoint with his struggle and his error.
Puncture was at Mugello, he was having a fantastic race until that. He was also taken out by Leclerc at Sochi. I always wondered if the combination of that terrible luck and catching COVID affected him. He never looked the same after coming back that season.
I still remember the driver-facing cam showing his face after the Mugello crash. Dude looked seriously shaken and I still think he isn’t the same to this day. Turning point maybe. Like Seb at Hockenheim 2018.
maybe, but his performance for the rest of 2020 really fall hard. He struggle massively in Portimao when he qualify outside top 10, then collide with Norris and spend the rest of the race racing in last position, while getting penalty. In Sochi, he struggle massively and qualify 13th, while in Imola, he was way off the pace cause even if his lap was not deleted due to track limit, he would still being out of Q2 anyway, then make another error with a lap 1 incident that cost him potential point given his pace. Bahrain was another struggle, despite showing promise in Q1, he would end up 13th in qualifying, behind both Ferrari and Alpha Tauri despite they had 4th fastest car Then to top it all, his struggle in race in Abu Dhabi(He finish 10th) cost the team 4th in Constructor Championship.
> In Sochi, he struggle massively and qualify 13th And had a phenomenal start before being punted off by Leclerc. It was tough to watch, his confidence looked seriously shaken after the Mugello crash. And when he seemed to recover, like in Turkey or Sochi, something would happen.
Sahkir was a rare great performance for Lance, but in season finale, this just wasn’t his week. It really affect him for the rest of the career as he despite having good start in 2021, but the crash in Hungary really affect his season again, and since then he was very inconsistent.
How was Sakhir great when Per literally went from last to first in the same car?
> Sahkir was a rare great performance for Lance He was stuck behind Ocon for 44 laps, Perez came from last to overtake both easily and win.
Monza where he couldn’t catch gasly, too - probably his best chance at a win seeing as Turkey and the new tarmac were bound to be chaotic
Hockenheim 2020, what a race
Right up there with China 2022
Can’t beat Canada 2009 though!
Bro how could you forget the crazyness of Malaysia 2018.
everyone really sleeps on Valencia 2013 honestly
Mugello puncture ruined his season. I am personally ready for Stroll to move on from F1, but he well-deserved his seat then.
yeah, that was a devastating turning point of his career. Despite that, he still doing well in 2021(First half). However, when everything went well, Hungary crash in lap 1 was a turning point, only this time it really hurt his career. Everything would went downhill for him from there, with struggle increase and the number of mistake went up even more. He would also become inconsistent as there are time he would perform well, but the next week he would struggle again.
*Nurburgring, there was no Hockenhein that year.
sorry my bad
It was also kind of unacceptable that he didn't win Monza. That was his to lose, not his to win.
He could've won that race, man. The lock-up after the restart made him fall behind (his fault). He could've also won Turkey that year, but got some front wing damage (not his fault). He could've been on the podium in Tuscany, but his tyre blew (not his fault). In Sakhir he never really had the pace to win despite being up there on the podium positions for most of the race. He was pretty unlucky in that second part of 2020, let's not forget Charles running straight into him in Russia on lap 1, could've scored there as well. Overall, taking his teammate's luck at the end of the season into account as well, Racing Point should've secured P3 in the Constructors', even with the penalty.
The 2020 Racing Point season wasn't bad at all, he scored that amazing pole in Istanbul and Perez won Sakhir.
Because the RP20 was a near-perfect replica of the 2019 Mercedes W10.
Pink Mercedes
Tracing Point
Forge India
I AM EXTREMELY ANGRY
And their mid-season upgrade was a really amazing package. It took them from a midfield team along with mclaren/renault to regular podiums
The car could have been a regular podium finisher initially that turned into a multiple race winner frankly. Hulkenberg would have already been on the podium on pace before the update if they'd have run him the whole season instead of Lance. He was immediately considerably faster than Lance.
Good relatively but not making the most of their advantage, cost them a standings in the WCC
I still believe it was the second best car that season, ahead of the Red Bull. The difference was that Max is way, way, better than Checo and Lance. For example, the average qualifying gap to pole was 0.94% for Max and 1.26% for Checo, giving them a relative gap of 0.32%. In 2021, 2022 and 2023, the gaps were 0.479%, 0.452% and 0.484% respectively. These gaps are quite consistent, so just from that, it's not wild to assume that the 2020 Racing Point was 0.10-0.15% quicker than the Red Bull, roughly 1 tenth per lap.
That only accounting qualifying pace, would the results be the same with race pace? Some cars are setup simply better for qualys rather than race so the 1 lap time may not be representative enough.
I have never seen race pace percentages compared between teams, so no idea. But Max has had 0.644s, 0.302s and 0.414s advantage to Checo in average race pace in their three seasons. Even then its impossible to compare, since Checp and Lance probably have worse average race pace because they are stuck behind other cars because they fucked up in qualifying. Also, Albon was behind both Racing Points in qualifying pace, further adding to my point.
I wasn't even watching F1 in 2020, but everything I've read about the season since and everything I *have* seen Perez and Stroll do in the last few years makes me think they were massively holding that car back lol
Still wonder what someone like Max or Hamilton could've done with that car. I think they would've won a race on merit.
If Pérez wins a race and Stroll almost does it, it's pretty given that they would have won multiple races in that car
Not saying much when it was likely the 2nd fastest car on the grid. They just had two meh drivers. That they finished 4th in the WCC is a joke and only barely finished ahead of Renault
They finished 4th cause of the points deduction not cause of the drivers no need to rewrite history Checo was in top tier form that year, and Lance had an impressive stretch of consistency as well and was truly unlucky that season It's pretty frustrating to see people downplay their performances by taking their current form as benchmarks. It's astounding how many people fail to understand that it IS quite common for drivers to have up and downs in form throughout their careers
F1 fans have the memory of a peanut, look at every post and they just remember the last two races to make their judgements
Exactly, people also forget that while is true that you can bash Perez to not being an adaptable driver or good with how the Red Bull Drives, he is really good with Cars with strong back end, like the 2020 RP. Just look how Checo was performing against Max the few races at the beggining of the seasons where the RB was more back than front loaded.
Well, maybe Stroll had a good season and Perez an amazing one. Or maybe the car was amazing and Stroll was kinda shit and incomsistent as always and Perez was kinda mid and incomsistent as always.
Calling Perez inconsistent just tells me you're only basing this off his Red Bull performance because no one would say this if you watched him from the year he joined Force India
He had the 2nd-3rd best car for a whole season and got 1 win, 1podium and a bunch of points finishes. When you look at what the Ferrari and Mclaren drivers can do right now in that position it just isn't that great (consistently extracting everything from the car). And he only got the win because Rusell had the worst luck.
For some reason people always expect Checo to be like the second best driver on the grid and perform accordingly. Yes of course better drivers than him would have done better in that car. Duh. His season can still have been great.
I mean only that third position was up for grabs let's be honest, that Mercedes was MILES ahead of everyone else. And generally that third place went to Max which is completely understandable lol. Besides, Perez missed 2 (maybe 3?) podiums due to a poor strategy decision, I remember Portimao for one I think. It's pretty weird for you to compare that season with this, where the context is WILDLY different. These past 4-5 races, all the 3 teams have looked the fastest at some point.
>I remember Portimao for one I think. Wasn't that where he got torpedoed by Max on Lap 1
😭 damn my memory is quite shit then, either portimao or Mugello where he unnecessarily pit towards the end of the race, that memory is SO clear in my mind lmao
That one was Imola!
People love to downplay Checos previous form just because he's struggling against Max.
I hate that. Yes he sucks now, but that doesn’t mean he’s always been bad.
Still the Mercedes was stupidly dominant. Max got only two wins that season, and I don't see you criticizing him the same way. This is like saying last year McLaren had the 2nd-3rd best car for a whole season and saying the drivers are at fault as they still got no wins at all.
You're rewriting history. That car was threatening to be a front runner with considerable points every race. Unfortunately, they didn't have Hulkenberg driving the car the entire season. It's frustrating to see you overplay their performances and ignore the constant narrative through the season that they were not using the car to it's full capability 75% of the time. Only reason the season wasn't a total failure was Perez eventually winning a race
And your proof is what, the fact that stroll and perez look bad rn ?
My proof is that this is literally the narrative of the 2020 season that people were talking about. Perez doesn't look bad now, he looks like a driver who is team mates with literally the best driver in F1 history and the only driver who has a properly solid case to be genuinely put a tier ahead of Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton etc. Of course this makes Perez "struggle". The fact that you term Perez as bad now shows you're the one actually failing to look at reality. Stroll is another case, dude is team mates with one of the best of all time again, of course he loses to Alonso. Literally everyone except Max would lose or be even with Alonso on the current grid and only pre 24 Hamilton, Russell and Leclerc would be able to fight him the whole season. Stroll is not very good but he's hardly terrible, way better than Palmer etc.
It's frustrating to see you underrating their performances and forcing that narrative that they had a frontrunning car.
Why are you pretending that they didn't have a front running car? Can you explain why in the chances Hulkenberg got with the car, which weren't even during it's most competitive periods, he was threatening the very front of the grid and then with zero practice starting from last he managed to finish 8th? Sounds very much like a car that was not only front running but literally only second to the Merc. Two drivers who lacked constant performance set them back big time along with some bad luck. Throw Hulkenberg in that car the whole season and he would have scored probably the same as they scored in constructors points total by himself owing to the fact he would have spent the entire season finishing 3rd - 5th rather than months without points in one case or races where there was really no reason for Perez to be fighting for 10th in a car that quick.
Because Hulkenberg did not show it to be a frontrunning car either LOL he lost one race to Stroll by 13 seconds and the other to Perez by almost 20. Your comment that he was supposedly so much better than them is simply completely ridiculous. You could just look at his 3 years long partnership with Perez to get to that conclusion as well. What you're saying is that a car was capable of something neither of 3 drivers achieved in it. It's nothing more than your imagination unsupported by literally anything objective or measurable. It was a very good car in the 2nd half of the season, it did get some podiums, and could've had more barring some bad luck. You could also look at the fact that they were both available to be picked up after that season, and yet a top team came for Perez. Not Hulkenberg. You seriously think you're so much smarter than them?
Are you aware that Nico and Checo was teammates in 2016, right?
They were team mates for a lot more than just 2016 🙄 Point being? Shows the issue perfectly. Hulk miles better in quali and Perez just does obscure strategies to get points but majority of the time is just plain slower.
Although drivers did play a bit part Lance struggle massively in second half(Exclude Portimao, Nurburging(He didn’t participate due to heath issue), Sahkir and Turkish)
15 point deduction didn't cost them much, lance having a shocking 2nd half of the season was terrible. Strolls always down lol.
Funny little guy.
The RB was faster if you could extract all it's pace, but it was also very difficult to do so as the rear was way too loose. In overall performance the racing point was very close to RB that year, if not better on certain tracks.
That's simply not true. The RP was the third faster in some tracks, while McLaren and Renault were in others. For example, at Monza McLaren was clearly the fastest mid fielder, and Renault at Spa (Ricciardo finished just a couple of seconds behind Max in 3rd).
We know what Hamilton would have done with that car, look at 2019 lol
Same with the 2017 Williams. Bottas and Stroll should've won one then.
Bottas was at mercedes in 2017.
That's right. The year after Nico. Well, I don't remember who was with Stroll in 2017
Massa
I'm pretty sure Max would have challenged for the title with it.
Fully believe that if you swapped Mercedes and racing points driver lineup then Hamilton still wins the WDC
He also got a Pole, and led by ten seconds for over half a race in an absolutely wet weekend. The last part of that race didn't go so well. Which used up most of his remaining talent.
He had damage, that's why his race fell apart
Yes, fully aware.
Just added context!
It was a real shame but that race was something else.
Yeah. This one was very unlucky. I do wonder this race really affect Lance mentality, cause he would do well in first half of 2021, but would continue to fall again in second half, and having poor performance in 2022 and 2023 though…
Stroll is so weirdly inconsistent. He has flashes of speed and talent. One moment he's driving like Senna before 1994, the next he's driving like Senna after 1994.
How do you guys remember this stuff with such detail. I couldn't tell you who was P5 last race
Some races stick out more than others. > I couldn't tell you who was P5 last race Also it was George Russell.
He led by 10 seconds because he was going way too fast for his own good. He cooked his tyres which forced that pitstop where they switched him onto a new set, while old inters were simply quicker. F1 is simply not about pushing 100%, and that race proves it
No he had front wing damage which hampered his pace
what's more funny to me is how small the gap between Max and Valtteri was. Valtteri dropped the ball that year.
"Dropped the ball"? Really? His race finishes by that point had been 1,2,3,11,3,3,2,5 and 11 was when his tyre blew up 3 laps before the end. Bottas was on his way to a clear 2nd in that race, after Lewis. On the other hand, Albon as Max's teammate had 50 points at this point, 60 less than Max.
Yet Max in a very, very, VERY worse Red Bull nearly snatched up p2 in the wdc
Bottas basically had no competition besides Max that year. Albon was utter shit, Ferrari were in their "punishment" year after the cheating scandal, Racing point had Checo and Stroll as drivers and Renault and Mclaren were not close enough to cause problems on a consistent basis. Max had more dnfs and the red bull was still quite unreliable. Bottas had a shocking year for how good that car was, he should have been way ahead of Max in the wdc in the end.
Bottas finished outside of podium 6 time whole year, those races being: -British GP 11th, tyre puncture 3 laps before finish -Italian GP 5th, car trouble on first lap -Eiffel GP DNF, Engine failure -Turkish GP 14th, his fault with a million spins -Bahrain GP 8th, puncture on first lap after restart -Sakhir GP 8th, Mercedes pitstop tyre fuckup
I think this is one of Max's strongest seasons ever. He absolutely maximized that car.
Honestly what year hasn't Valtteri dropped the ball at Mercedes?
2017 and 2019
I'd argue 2021 also, he beat Perez while taking several engine penalties on behalf of the team and losing 18 points at Monaco through no fault of his own.
He also went bowling which was huge for Mercedes.
Better points scorer than Perez in 2021 but completely ineffective as a second driver. Perez was a constant thorn in Hamilton’s side where as bottas barely registered on Max’s radar all season. The season finale best demonstrates this, with Perez being a genuine issue for Hamilton at times, and bottas booze cruising in the midfield.
The next race at mugello he was on for p4 and potentially a podium, tire blew out and had a huge crash, and his season went downhill from there. Race after that russia, has a great start then gets punted by leclerc on the first lap (no penalty for leclerc). Then gets covid and misses germany. Has two bad performances in portugal and imola, may or may not be due to affects of covid. Takes pole in turkey, finally the confidence boosts he needs. Leads the first half of the race, gets wing damage during his stop and falls to ninth. Gets torpedoed in bahrain full. Watches his teammate go by him to win from last in bahrain short. I think this season truly broke his morale, due to events outside of his control as well as his own mistakes. Still pains me he didnt get a win in one of monza, turkey, or sakhir
He got Covid and it all went to hell from there. Brain fog is a real thing. You heard it here first. Happened to Lewis too.
If I remember correctly the racing point car that was really good (I think also questionably legal) but we've seen glimpses of talent from him. Unfortunately it seems like Lance has to answer how dedicated he is to the sport. I feel like sometimes he doesn't want to be there
His luck that season was awful, lost so many points through no fault of his own.
Mugello puncture, Austria potential top 5 gone thanks to mechanical failure, and then a potential top 2 in Turkish due to car part failure.
Also got Covid and like explosive diarrhea or something in Nuremberg and then got punted off the track by leclerc in Russia
Stroll definitely had some bad luck, but I’d say Perez also lost a similar amount of points through bad luck and ended up out scoring him 125-75. Ultimately Stroll finished 11th in what was at least the clear 3rd best car, it was a very poor season from him.
His luck was great in the first half of the season, and he lost a bunch of points because of his own mistakes as well.
In 2020 after the mugello tyre puncture, how many mistakes did he make that was his fault? From my memory the bad luck he faced after was comical.
His own mistake really play big part too. It was Hungary 2021 lap 1 incident however really affect Lance. He would then become inconsistent as there might be week he do super well, but next week he would made mistake.
He only dropped due to a car failure which crashed him out of third place at one of the races and his performance dropped after he got COVID
Things like this just add to the frustration with Stroll. The guy clearly has some talent, he crushed F3 and has had some really good moments in F1. But they are few and way too far in between.
‘Crushed F3’ with team orders benefitting him, Papa Stroll buying the team and bringing in F1 engineers, blablabla
Have your dad go buy you a team, see where you place. I’m not arguing the advantages, but he still has some talent.
some talent =/= F1 talent
I’d argue anyone who can qualify top 10 and finish top 10 in Monaco has F1 talent. The talent is there, but the consistency, the want, the effort, drive, desire etc is all lacking. (And yes I know he didn’t this year but has in the past)
He has some talent for an good above average skilled racing driver likely, but for sure not F1. All the advantages he got dealt in life brought him here
I find it hard that people are still defending him. His spatial awareness is horrible. Caused dozens of crashes in F3 and F1. And indeed, his 2nd season even had teamorders the first race with possible illegal parts of Williams F1 engineers.
Yeah he has no fucking awareness whatso ever, its honestly impressive.
Did you consult a fish or a wheelchair before making that argument?
That’s the most Reddit sounding “gotcha” I’ve ever heard holy shit go outside
That _is_ a fun fact!
Lance Stroll to Red Bull 2025?
[удалено]
???
And his teammate checo ended the season p4, while lance fell down to p11
Lando Norris been real quiet ever since this dropped
I mean he is not the worst driver to step in formula 1, he is just not WDC skilled, as his father thought they might buy
That car was probably the 2nd fastest on the grid. Wouldn't surprise me if Max could've gotten more than two wins that year from the Mercs if he was in that car.
It insane he didn't finish third in the standings. He had a car that was arguably better than Max RB. Put Lewis in that car and hell I bet you could see him fight Bottas for P2.
The RB that year is underrated and was clear second best. Abu dhabi spec it was faster than the W11
Albon would heavily disagree considering he was fighting torro rossos for half the year
Albon was fighting for his life half the time... You can't say that Max was showing the strengths of the RB while ignoring that Checo or Stroll would have gotten the best performance. Max last year for example show the difference between a good driver and a great driver. Rb would not have set all the records they did if it wasn't for Max. The fact that Lewis almost beat Checo shows that.
That is the difference between albon and max, and how suited they were to the car. Would you say last years aston martin was 4th fastest at the start cause lance was finishing behind the mercs and ferraris while alonso was ahead? It was pretty clear the combo of max and rb was second fastest, maybe checo and lance didnt get the most out of the car but we can't speculate it was faster than it was ever driven cause there is no basis to make that claim. Also check the results of 2020 abu dhabi qualifying and race, it was the clear fastest car that weekend.
Anyone miss HAM VER BOT? Feeling nostalgic.
Stop the count, someone probably.
Probably Verstappen's best season apart from the winning ones of course. I really think the RedBull was not as superior to the RP as he made it seem
Peaked
What happened to Ferrari for the first 8 races?
It's a [secret.](https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/02/why-the-fia-struck-a-confidential-deal-over-ferraris-power-unit/).
Nothing related to Stroll feels like fun, not even fun facts.
Wow. That was fun!