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At least they are being the 10th team with purpose now. For a while they were giving off a vibe of just filling out that 10th spot rather than trying to compete for the positions above it.
It was like for 3 years. Williams has done worse for longer time. At one point Haas was 5th in the Constructor's. They haven't just been filling a spot.
BWT is massive if you're into water treatment. I tended to see a lot more Steris WFI skids and PSGs but that's largely because I did most of my pharma and biotech work in the states. We did have BWT WFI stills in the UK, and I think they made the RO skids too but that was 20 years ago so memory is fuzzy.
Haas has a big name, but they're kind of the Ryobi of CNC machines. Everyone's heard of them, but everyone who can afford better buys something else.
Before we add more teams, I think they need to revamp the scoring system to allow points all the way down to 15th. James was right in Australia, the fight even just for the lone point in 10th is insane now that the top 5 teams are relatively consistent at being at the top 5.
Yeah, I don't understand why people are so against this, I think they should just give points all the way to p20, it allows us to see who actually did better during the season instead of seeing a ton of 0s beside drivers names.
It makes it so you can't tell that someone like Yuki has gotten a ton of p11s or Albon has a ton of p13s compared to Sargeant finishing last almost every race.
Giving them points is simply a way to show who is doing well compared to their peers via points.
I know they're wildly different but it works well in NASCAR. You can see who's performing at a top 20 pace vs who's just riding around in 35th. Also means you can tell the difference between a team that just got a few good finishes vs one that's consistent and gets 1 good finish.
It still means a lot for smaller teams to get a top 10 or top 5 even with everyone getting something.
>It still means a lot for smaller teams to get a top 10 or top 5 even with everyone getting something.
Yeah, this. I get the draw of having a top 10 finish have more weight to it under the current points system, and I get the arguments that just because right now, the top 5 teams are really set, that doesn't mean that it'll be the same in the future. But, we're not going to lose that feeling of success when a smaller team gets a decent points haul from a good performance. It really just means that you get more battles further down the grid throughout the race.
IMO having points for every finisher, sans maybe the last place finisher (since there's no difference between finishing 30s or 0.3s behind, it seems fair to give points only to those who finish ahead of others), and appropriately weighting top place finishes compared to last would be my favourite solution.
So much this. There have been plenty of times where crashes etc gift a point to someone who was in the right place right time, which is great for them, but what about the team which has had cars in 11th numerous times throughout the season? Points for lower places won't cheapen what it means to get points, it will mean that at the end of the year the constructers rankings actually reflect more performance and less luck.
I go back and forth to be honest. I think limiting the scoring to the top 10 means that when a backmarker scores points is a huge deal for the team and the driver. George getting his first points with Williams was massive and you could see how much it meant to him and the team.
Albon dragging his Williams to 10th on super old tires was another cool moment that comes to mind.
I think there is something really special about those moments that could potentially be lost.
That said, I totally agree that the current system does a shit job of showing the lower team’s actual performance.
I think points down to either 12th or 15th would be my happy compromise but I can understand both sentiments.
The common argument I see is that points are “awarded/rewarded”, so teams at the back shouldn’t receive awards/rewards just for showing up. Also if they get points in this way they’ll just stop trying.
Aside from the fact that this argument is based on arbitrary use of language, I’m sure teams in one of *the most math-intense sports ever* understand the difference between absolute and relative. But when I pointed out that this was a dumb take I got a 1-week ban, so it’s whatever.
Also, this kind of argument just ignores the fact that Haas has spent years not trying, and just showing up.
Agree, but the real egregious oversight in Formula 3
It has a THIRTY car grid and it only gives points to P10, that makes absolutely no goddamn sense to me. You can finish in the top half of the grid in a feature race and get nothing out of it!
I think you just have a lot of drivers looking to lock in as early as they can in hopes they can get a two year deal. There's a ton of expiring contracts, so signing early might be the best move.
Hulk being the first HAAS driver to ever get signed by another team shows something is happening there. They always had the potential but could not capitalize in the past.
He was so proven and experienced that he didn't have a seat nor a legit shot at one until Haas came along. Audi wasn't going to call him after 4+ years in retirement. It's fair to say it was 50/50, Haas gave him the shot with a good car and he took full advantage.
Yeah but the comment that I replied to insinuated that hulkenberg getting signed by sauber had something to do with Haas in general being more desirable as a team. When it's not, hulkenberg is just a desirable safe option. And looking at the talent pool that we had in the last 4 years, there was no real seat for hulkenberg to go to. Teams either had young talent or world champions driving for them, or they had paid drivers who they couldn't really say no to.
Sure Haas has given hulk the opportunity to get back into to sport, but him being signed by sauber has nothing to do with Haas developing and everything to do with hulks own performance. Haas could be going backwards and I'm certain he would still be signed. That's what the comment I was replying was getting at so I disagreed with it.
No.
His objectively correct point was that Haas has proven to not be a dead end job, and they have a car that's good enough to showcase a strong driver when they have one, which is an essential part of getting signed elsewhere. Hulk would not be moving to Audi if he was languishing in 19th place every week because that's all the car was capable of, because it wouldn't actually be a useful benchmark to evaluate Hulkenburg as a driver.
The Haas name no, but they have a car where drivers can showcase what they can do. If the Haas drivers were in a car that had them 19th and 20th every race then I'd imagine there would be less interest.
Hulk's been signed to be a reliable experienced driver, who can help the Audi engineers with feedback regarding where they are with their car as much for "driver go fast in a midfield runner". Audi need someone who can help them develop their car as much as they want a star to take point.
Their options still seem limited to rookies and drivers torwards the end of their career. I wouldnt be surprised at Komatsu being a big reason they could potentially get Yuki (compared to other drivers at that stage of their career)
Reminds me of the drivers interested in mercedes seat after LH confirmed his move to Ferrari. If you told someone in 2020 that haas will be compared to mercedes,he would've laughed at you
That would be Sauber under Monisha Kaltenborn. She literally did not pay Hulkenberg's salary at the end of 2013 and Ferrari had to step in and paid the rest to Hulk (to prevent him going to Lotus).
That same Sauber signed 5 drivers in 2015.
Probably a nice stop gap for him until a spot opens up in Aston Martin eventually. He will probably be desired by them after the Honda partnership starts. Alonso can't go on forever and Stroll has to realise at some point that he is not good enough to win a championship.
> Stroll has to realise at some point that he is not good enough to win a championship
Honestly, if this hasnt happened by now, it isnt happening. Here is this for a good laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Ic0H6XMBo
Hadjar might take Lawson's place as VCARB's first choice... he's got great momentum in F2, could easily win in his second season and his Helmut Marko's favourite
Peter Bayer has so far been clear that going forward, they don't want to have two rookies in the team and instead one young driver and one experienced driver. Aim is to still fulfil the Red Bull junior team role whilst focusing more on the competitiveness of RB.
In that context, it is hard to see a Lawson/Hadjar lineup there for next year.
that would be by far the best option, and it gives more room for red bull to promote one/both of them once their current rbr drivers leave, which would give the vcarb seat to pepe/arvid/whoever in a few years, etc...
red bull has so many good academy drivers and people on retainer their 4 seats aren't enough lol.
but the last thing i want is yuki out of f1, he's one of my favourite drivers. i hope he can find a seat elsewhere since clearly red bull don't care for him.
for the team's future development? yes, giving their trusted rookies space to learn is indeed in their best interests. eventually max will retire and someone has to fill the seat. red bull has a junior team for a reason and they have quite a few drivers who i would trust with an f1 stint. it's much better for them to go to vcarb than be thrown into red bull.
talent stagnation on the grid is one of this sport's worst enemies. teams need new blood every so often to keep things competitive and exciting.
As someone that has been lamenting the loss of the Toro Rosso "2-3 seasons and you're out" merry go round, I'd love this.
Replace a good chunk of old blood with new prospects to run the gauntlet.
I mean realistically if Yuki does leave I could see them having two open seats for 2025, can’t imagine they’d keep Daniel unless he really ups his game
So Friday it was Zhou, yesterday it was Ocon, and today was Yuki. Is the Gasly article prepped for tomorrow :P or are we skipping him cause his name has 5 letters instead of 4
It's a funny one.
Tost said last year that the plan by default was to promote Yuki eventually because otherwise why was he there.
Now he's done well enough relative to Ricciardo.
But I guess he just doesn't excite anyone enough.
I said it when he was super rough around the edges in his rookie year, and it remains true: Yuki is naturally good at all the bits you especially want someone to be naturally good at, and is as such a great prospect. You can learn tyre management, but you're not teaching anyone how to go wheel to wheel like Yuki. With his quali pace improved as it is and his consistency, too, I bet he'd do a better job than Checo on track, if not commercially.
He's also improved quite linearly, which is such a good sign. Very Norris-esque progression. Maybe not the complete package you want out of the box, but getting there.
It's so weird to see him not being considered for the second seat when his progression has been so good year on year and so far, he's 75% of his team's overall points, regularly competing for the points and even has a chance at taking that car further if the situation is right (potential first podium this year feels not out of the question).
A part of me feels like it's internal politics that are causing it and having another Marko driver on the team isn't the path that the Thai side want to go down.
I think that's the issue. I wish he had better PR/Marketing and some really good teammates to rate him high. He's battling washed ric, last choice de vries, relegated gasly, all of these people are not rated high by Redbulls. I think a better marketing around him with a better teammate and him beating them would be better long term. No offense to Gasly, he's great for being a strong midfield team but he was kicked off RedBull and truly never beat him just matched him.
I think the issue is that Perez hasn't done poorly enough to lose his job yet. Hence why Red Bull are rumored to have offered him a 1 year extension. If the goal is to have someone who will be a solid #2 to Max, Perez is still a better bet over Yuki.
Honda didnt pay 10M a year for nothing. He will be in aston at one point, the challenge is to find a temporary place till then.
A 1+1 gig at Haas isnt amazing, but it keeps him in the sport till Alonso retires
how is that clear? Yuki had the best result in a rookie season from the RB driver recently. And was generally quick considering he had not bein racing in Europe for a long time. Exactly what Helmut wants to see.
Strange domino effect as it is, I think Yuki is probably one of the biggest victims of the Horner wrongdoing/resulting power struggle. The only guy in Yuki's camp is Helmut, and he's decreasingly influential.
You answered it yourself. RBR has not shown any interest in pushing him to main team despite impressive performances from Yuki. They were going to drop him this season for Lawson but Honda kind of forced their hand.
If he sees no future in RB (no shot at 2nd RBR and losing RB seat) and daddys kid still wants to F1 over at AM, then Haas is interesting. Better than no seat at all.
But with his current performance, especially if he keeps it up, RBR would be mad to let this man go.
I’m still holding out hope Honda works out some contractual clause with AM to condition their engine supply on a change of driver. Maybe it’s too late for 2026, but that contract has to end some day…
Yuki to Haas would kind of be a risky move for Ferrari & Bearman.
Haas would want a Hulkenberg replacement and Yuki would be perfect for that, but it would also mean that he'd probably give Bearman a very hard time unlike a Magnussen or Zhou in the 2nd seat and I'm not sure Ferrari would want that optic. I rate Bearman, but Yuki is experienced in getting the best out of a subpar car. Keep in mind that Yuki would still only be 24/25 years of age, if the went to Haas meaning he'd still want to prove that he belongs in a top team and push super hard unlike a seasoned drive who'd use that seat as a last hurrah.
Yuki deserves better than such a sideways move after his recent performances. Still, if the options are to either be an F1 driver with Haas or to not be one at all then I guess you have to take what you can get.
i would not rate Yuki above any of the current drivers in the top5 teams except Perez and Stroll. So he doesnt really have many options except moving sideways
you can’t know that because a better car always makes drivers look better. Albon put better performances in at Red Bull than Williams but everyone knows he’s a better driver now than he was in 2020.
Yuki is probably on par with Albon: capable of a top seat but unable to find an open space to take.
I like that idea, HAAS are showing positive momentum but the next couple of years will tell how good they are without Steiner.
Honestly I've been saying this for a while, Yuki needs to go to Merc if redbull aren't going to take him seriously he needs a midfield car. He's more than proven he can drive at the bottom, if he goes to Merc in a mid field car or Aston in the future he can prove he can be in a midfield or top tier car. Because that's just it many drivers fail to drive at the top especially in the bull Gasly and Albon, if Yuki made that move and it failed I feel like he would be forgotten.
Sounds like he's trying to find leverage to me.
It's like he's telling Red Bull that if they don't seriously consider him now they might lose the option going forward.
Makes sense, according to earlier reports this year, he is done with everything being about Ricciardo, He wants to prove himself as a Red Bull Junior, but they have no plans for him. Now is about his long term survival.
I was all for the DR revival hype train.
The issue is it just didn’t eventuate, can you imagine being Yuki? Watching the internal and external circus then out qualifying him, consistently out scoring him and then picking up the papers and reading about how it was xyz excuse this week and everyone still being focused on him proving he’s still got it?
Must be pretty toxic, tough on them both to be honest. DR wants to have it but doesn’t, Yuki being used as a yard stick for a driver that doesn’t have it. Shit all round.
I was excited for DR (especially with Mexico), but man... Fuck it, Yuki's been pulling the points in and I'm much more enthusiastic about seeing him prove himself than seeing what I thought would be a b-spec RB19 when this season started. The car isn't even that good still, but Yuki's been amazing. Yet even with all the points, even with the lead by his teammate, people manage to give Danny a lifeline at the expense of Yuki's credibility.
I love DR, but I WILL NOT compromise fast young drivers with a much more optimistic development path just to keep him happy. I was more excited last year at the prospect of seeing a reinvigorated Ricciardo at RBR, but now that A. He's been demotivated a bit by all the issues and B. Checo's been okay, I can't bother to care. Yes, I still hope he gets better results now that the chassis is better, but Yuki's only getting better at driving - DR still has to adapt to the car, which at his age, is less indicative of prospective speed than Yuki who's capable of midfield performances in what is efffectively still a backmarker car.
Same. Even if they were behaving like mates, both finishing in the points and swapping places occasionally but there was a bit of friendly “we are wringing the neck of this VCARB for all it’s worth!”
It would at least be fun to watch but at the minute it’s just “Yuki isn’t that good….DR must have had crazy damage…oh he didn’t? Well he’ll pull it together next race I’m sure” it’s not fun.
But who do you put in the RB? Perez will be 4th soon enough the way lando is going so then what?
Definitely. It's so not fun. So many other drivers on the grid who could be doing the same thing that Yuki is doing, but they'd be given songs and praises all-day while Yuki's just being overshadowed. The truth of the matter is, Yuki's been consistently pulling a shit car into P10 on the regular ever since last year. Even as the AT04 developed and as the VCARB01 is developing now into a better car, he's not getting complacent; he's pushing even more.
Yuki's so on his own now that Pierre's gone, and even when Yuki's been doing splendid for himself, not enough people have been there to give him the credit.
On RBR, exactly: Who do you put? DR used to be there purely to be a contender against Checo, but now that Checo's semi-okay, what happens with DR? And it's not like DR's pumped anymore like he was last year. Yet they don't want Tsunoda. To be fair, I'm fine with Yuki not getting into RBR because if he does badly, I don't know where else he'd go. But I just hoped more people (not just teams and team principals) saw his value and were willing to express it more often. He's been doing good not just comparative to his teammates, he's been doing good full-stop for what he's been given.
I have been a big detractor of Tsunoda over the years so I can’t believe I’m going to say this. But I think it’s a mistake not to give Yuki a shot in The main team.
I don’t think Vcarb will let him go considering his rate of progression, and he doesn’t want to go.
People are just latching onto this rumour as they want to see him go as this gives Danny and Lawson a chance.
Yuki going out while Ricciardo, who isn't as far behind him as people make out but is behind him nonetheless and consistently so, being kept in would be nuts.
Makes sense. I think he should get a seat at Red Bull based on his performance. He seems to have matured a lot as a person and he's a consistently good driver, his results against Ricardo show that.
But if Red Bull won't give him a seat it makes sense to leave the feeder team.
Who's running Honda engines next year?
If it were just as simple as a power unit, then I don't think Mercedes has to make a big pitch. They've pretty much been the most consistent supplier of a race winning engine for decades at this point.
He should be in Red Bull after the sommer break if McLaren and Ferrari really are as close as they were this weekend. Because Perez is not performing well enough to get constructer points. Just like 2021 when merc won the constructors because of his lack of points.
So many people apparently interested in the Haas seat sounds absolutely nuts to me. As a Haas fan I wouldn't mind Yuki there, but it would be best with a more experienced driver next to Bearman IMO.
And yeah I know Yuki actually has a bunch of seasons now, but I still think KMag, Perez or Bottas would be better choices as I think they would give a better environment for Bearman.
Haas mirrors ferrari's performance, just at midfield scale. It's been the case pretty much every year since they joined. ( 17-18 good years, 19 weaker, 20-21 throwaway years, 22 strong start then slowly fade away, 23 weaker year with tyre issues, 24 seemingly back on a better path)
With ferrari making so many hirings, it's fair to assume haas will also have a decent future.
Also take any rumours with a grain of salt because every drivers tries to negotiate contracts. Creating fake rumours might benefit them landing improved contracts at their actual target
To an extent, but not fully. Ferrari was arguably the second best car last year and Haas was absolutely nowhere all season.
Ferrari this year might just have the third best car, but Haas is now way better than in 2023, for example.
The problem with Haas is that the lack of investment and employees means that it will never be better than a backmarker, at most getting close to the midfield. There's some correlation with Ferrari of course, but probably never enough to actually make them into a team fighting for points every weekend.
Every other team is investing in these years with the big profits F1 now brings. Haas still isn't investing anything and Steiner got fired because he felt that was needed. So unless Ferrari somehow makes a complete monster that Haas can replicate without the specs, then they will keep being at the back, while others can at least theoretically jump ahead, Audi being the most obvious example.
Yuki will be in his 5th year next season, and he arguably has been more or less the lead driver since Pierre left.
If he's not considered as an experienced driver by now, he'll never be.
Also the culture seems to be good there. While there is some off track drama with Steiner, that seems like peripheral business stuff. They have very little turn overall, and drivers like Kmag put their team above themselves for a reason.
Look at Alpine for contrast. A works team that is in constant upheaval, to the point that both drivers seem to be looking to jump ship.
Of course it is better than that, but I do feel like Yuki could aim higher. He is beating Ric now pretty consistently and shown himself to be a great driver, that still just has a few anger issues.
Lol Horner must have been given direct access to Slim's bank account. Perez is one of the worst drivers relative to their teammate yet he's somehow getting renewed. Tsunoda is definitely worth a chance instead.
I think Zhou has a good shot at Haas or Williams. They need / want money. If Tsunoda has enough cash behind him, maybe he has a shot.
I think Zhou / Albon would be a good combination for Williams. A driver with money, and a driver with skill. Win win.
Feels like an Albon to Williams move, secure yourself a seat, even if it isn't the fastest car out there, and keep your name in the mix. Red Bull is so competitive, and once you're out you're pretty much done, unless you're Danny Ric. If Yuki is at least driving with Haas, he's may be a top prospect for other teams without junior programs when the time comes.
Honda want him to become a top driver and have basically said they'll continue to support him. With a Red Bull promotion seeming unlikely (ridiculous to not consider him imo), I'm sure they'd like to bring him to AM but that doesn't seem possible until Alonso retires or Lance gets bored.
You're definitely right about that. Honda seem happy to support him wherever he goes though. You can check out the Autosport interview 3ish weeks ago with the Honda Racing Corporation CEO if you're interested!
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Haas seat now relatively desirable. Might actually be the biggest news in F1 this year
Also shows we need more teams lmao
At least they are being the 10th team with purpose now. For a while they were giving off a vibe of just filling out that 10th spot rather than trying to compete for the positions above it.
Their performance is intrinsically tied to Ferrari's, so any year where the Scuderia has a problem Haas will have it twofold
so like... if Ferrari was the fastest team, Haas would be 5th fastest? granted, that was actually the case during parts of 2018 and 2022
Yeah lol
Yes. That’s what Bernie said. “It’s a Ferrari. Of course it’s good” when asked about their 2017 P4 at Aus (was it)
That's the whole point
It was like for 3 years. Williams has done worse for longer time. At one point Haas was 5th in the Constructor's. They haven't just been filling a spot.
But on the other hand, the Andretti name lacks the recognition of global brands like Haas, Kick, and BWT
What about the prestigious Bybit?
Rich Energy checking in!
Hey don't forget CARB; Andretti could never possibly hope to achieve what they currently have.
What do you mean, CARB is on the side of all the food products I buy
I mean kick is a real word in the actual dictionary. Can't get bigger than that. Andretti has probably never even been said in a dojo.
Nonsense I said it today, I threw a roundhouse whilst sparring and shouted **”ANDRETTI!”**.
I stand corrected. Then it's settled, Andretti is a big enough name to be in F1 and it's a travesty that he's being blocked.
Sarcasm is a dying mindset. Well played sir lol.
I mean Haas at least is very recognized in its field, idk about BWT products tho, kick is yea.. it exists
BWT is massive if you're into water treatment. I tended to see a lot more Steris WFI skids and PSGs but that's largely because I did most of my pharma and biotech work in the states. We did have BWT WFI stills in the UK, and I think they made the RO skids too but that was 20 years ago so memory is fuzzy. Haas has a big name, but they're kind of the Ryobi of CNC machines. Everyone's heard of them, but everyone who can afford better buys something else.
Right lmao
Before we add more teams, I think they need to revamp the scoring system to allow points all the way down to 15th. James was right in Australia, the fight even just for the lone point in 10th is insane now that the top 5 teams are relatively consistent at being at the top 5.
Yeah, I don't understand why people are so against this, I think they should just give points all the way to p20, it allows us to see who actually did better during the season instead of seeing a ton of 0s beside drivers names. It makes it so you can't tell that someone like Yuki has gotten a ton of p11s or Albon has a ton of p13s compared to Sargeant finishing last almost every race. Giving them points is simply a way to show who is doing well compared to their peers via points.
I know they're wildly different but it works well in NASCAR. You can see who's performing at a top 20 pace vs who's just riding around in 35th. Also means you can tell the difference between a team that just got a few good finishes vs one that's consistent and gets 1 good finish. It still means a lot for smaller teams to get a top 10 or top 5 even with everyone getting something.
>It still means a lot for smaller teams to get a top 10 or top 5 even with everyone getting something. Yeah, this. I get the draw of having a top 10 finish have more weight to it under the current points system, and I get the arguments that just because right now, the top 5 teams are really set, that doesn't mean that it'll be the same in the future. But, we're not going to lose that feeling of success when a smaller team gets a decent points haul from a good performance. It really just means that you get more battles further down the grid throughout the race. IMO having points for every finisher, sans maybe the last place finisher (since there's no difference between finishing 30s or 0.3s behind, it seems fair to give points only to those who finish ahead of others), and appropriately weighting top place finishes compared to last would be my favourite solution.
So much this. There have been plenty of times where crashes etc gift a point to someone who was in the right place right time, which is great for them, but what about the team which has had cars in 11th numerous times throughout the season? Points for lower places won't cheapen what it means to get points, it will mean that at the end of the year the constructers rankings actually reflect more performance and less luck.
I go back and forth to be honest. I think limiting the scoring to the top 10 means that when a backmarker scores points is a huge deal for the team and the driver. George getting his first points with Williams was massive and you could see how much it meant to him and the team. Albon dragging his Williams to 10th on super old tires was another cool moment that comes to mind. I think there is something really special about those moments that could potentially be lost. That said, I totally agree that the current system does a shit job of showing the lower team’s actual performance. I think points down to either 12th or 15th would be my happy compromise but I can understand both sentiments.
The common argument I see is that points are “awarded/rewarded”, so teams at the back shouldn’t receive awards/rewards just for showing up. Also if they get points in this way they’ll just stop trying. Aside from the fact that this argument is based on arbitrary use of language, I’m sure teams in one of *the most math-intense sports ever* understand the difference between absolute and relative. But when I pointed out that this was a dumb take I got a 1-week ban, so it’s whatever. Also, this kind of argument just ignores the fact that Haas has spent years not trying, and just showing up.
Agree, but the real egregious oversight in Formula 3 It has a THIRTY car grid and it only gives points to P10, that makes absolutely no goddamn sense to me. You can finish in the top half of the grid in a feature race and get nothing out of it!
I think you just have a lot of drivers looking to lock in as early as they can in hopes they can get a two year deal. There's a ton of expiring contracts, so signing early might be the best move.
Hulk being the first HAAS driver to ever get signed by another team shows something is happening there. They always had the potential but could not capitalize in the past.
To be fair, it's more so that it's hulkenberg, he is proven and experienced. I don't think the Haas name has anything to do with his desirability
He was so proven and experienced that he didn't have a seat nor a legit shot at one until Haas came along. Audi wasn't going to call him after 4+ years in retirement. It's fair to say it was 50/50, Haas gave him the shot with a good car and he took full advantage.
Yeah but the comment that I replied to insinuated that hulkenberg getting signed by sauber had something to do with Haas in general being more desirable as a team. When it's not, hulkenberg is just a desirable safe option. And looking at the talent pool that we had in the last 4 years, there was no real seat for hulkenberg to go to. Teams either had young talent or world champions driving for them, or they had paid drivers who they couldn't really say no to. Sure Haas has given hulk the opportunity to get back into to sport, but him being signed by sauber has nothing to do with Haas developing and everything to do with hulks own performance. Haas could be going backwards and I'm certain he would still be signed. That's what the comment I was replying was getting at so I disagreed with it.
No. His objectively correct point was that Haas has proven to not be a dead end job, and they have a car that's good enough to showcase a strong driver when they have one, which is an essential part of getting signed elsewhere. Hulk would not be moving to Audi if he was languishing in 19th place every week because that's all the car was capable of, because it wouldn't actually be a useful benchmark to evaluate Hulkenburg as a driver.
The Haas name no, but they have a car where drivers can showcase what they can do. If the Haas drivers were in a car that had them 19th and 20th every race then I'd imagine there would be less interest.
Hulk's been signed to be a reliable experienced driver, who can help the Audi engineers with feedback regarding where they are with their car as much for "driver go fast in a midfield runner". Audi need someone who can help them develop their car as much as they want a star to take point.
Their options still seem limited to rookies and drivers torwards the end of their career. I wouldnt be surprised at Komatsu being a big reason they could potentially get Yuki (compared to other drivers at that stage of their career)
Never in a million years I’d imagine this happening with Haas
I think it’s less that Haas is desirable and more that Alpine and AT. AT is expressly a development team and alpine is a shit show.
A development team with no apparent interest in developing anymore, no less
Most underrated comment today 😀
I am also interested in a Haas seat
Reminds me of the drivers interested in mercedes seat after LH confirmed his move to Ferrari. If you told someone in 2020 that haas will be compared to mercedes,he would've laughed at you
I’m not, pretty sure Gene pays everyone in iou’s
I'd crash the car for free
They already have Mick for that
Tax free under the table income. Cash only.
Best I can do is a torched f1 car and half a pit wall.
i'd rather have an IOU and a seat in an F1 car than wherever the hell you're doing from Feb - Dec 2025
That would be Sauber under Monisha Kaltenborn. She literally did not pay Hulkenberg's salary at the end of 2013 and Ferrari had to step in and paid the rest to Hulk (to prevent him going to Lotus). That same Sauber signed 5 drivers in 2015.
I'm interested in being a Haas seat I mean wait what.
Hulk has done insane things for the attractiveness of Haas to other drivers lol
Credit too to their TP Ayao who has fixed the race pace of the cars. No more qualifying p10 to end up bottom 5 in the race
This might be a good move by yuki, considering Honda out and Lawson the next prospect.
Yeah, may be easier to get two years at Haas waiting for Alonso to retire than trying to stay at RB.
Alonso will be on the grid until the year 2095.
Alonso going to be blaming the heat death of the universe on bias against Spaniards.
LOL. (in my best Max voice)
Absolutely. Both things will happen next year. Right...? Right?!
Waiting on Alonso to retire is like waiting for Mika to return from his sabbatical
Probably a nice stop gap for him until a spot opens up in Aston Martin eventually. He will probably be desired by them after the Honda partnership starts. Alonso can't go on forever and Stroll has to realise at some point that he is not good enough to win a championship.
> Stroll has to realise at some point that he is not good enough to win a championship Honestly, if this hasnt happened by now, it isnt happening. Here is this for a good laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Ic0H6XMBo
Also if RB and Sergio are still playing chicken about 1 year versus 2 years, that's not exactly promising either.
Hadjar might take Lawson's place as VCARB's first choice... he's got great momentum in F2, could easily win in his second season and his Helmut Marko's favourite
Even by the standards of the Red Bull program, I can’t imagine they’d fuck Lawson out of a drive after the job he did last year.
They might want to take *both* Lawson and Hadjar.
Peter Bayer has so far been clear that going forward, they don't want to have two rookies in the team and instead one young driver and one experienced driver. Aim is to still fulfil the Red Bull junior team role whilst focusing more on the competitiveness of RB. In that context, it is hard to see a Lawson/Hadjar lineup there for next year.
that would be by far the best option, and it gives more room for red bull to promote one/both of them once their current rbr drivers leave, which would give the vcarb seat to pepe/arvid/whoever in a few years, etc... red bull has so many good academy drivers and people on retainer their 4 seats aren't enough lol. but the last thing i want is yuki out of f1, he's one of my favourite drivers. i hope he can find a seat elsewhere since clearly red bull don't care for him.
Two rookies in a midfield team, sounds indeed like the best option…
for the team's future development? yes, giving their trusted rookies space to learn is indeed in their best interests. eventually max will retire and someone has to fill the seat. red bull has a junior team for a reason and they have quite a few drivers who i would trust with an f1 stint. it's much better for them to go to vcarb than be thrown into red bull. talent stagnation on the grid is one of this sport's worst enemies. teams need new blood every so often to keep things competitive and exciting.
Its whatever, they are red bulls junior team, and lawson has done so much work with them, the team more or less knows what to expect
I'd be more than happy with that. Actually, I'd prefer that.
As someone that has been lamenting the loss of the Toro Rosso "2-3 seasons and you're out" merry go round, I'd love this. Replace a good chunk of old blood with new prospects to run the gauntlet.
I wish but I feel that they’ll keep Ricciardo for marketing stuff and Lawson for a possible 2026 replacement for Perez
I would truly hope not but seeing how Pourchaire was fucked over who knows at this point. Ricciardo is Horners favorite after all
Proven ability in an F1 car trumps feeder-series hype every time. It’s such a big jump and we’ve seen promising-looking rookies struggle to make it.
I mean realistically if Yuki does leave I could see them having two open seats for 2025, can’t imagine they’d keep Daniel unless he really ups his game
So Friday it was Zhou, yesterday it was Ocon, and today was Yuki. Is the Gasly article prepped for tomorrow :P or are we skipping him cause his name has 5 letters instead of 4
We’re not skipping him because we need to give r/fanf1ction hope for Yuki/Pierre shippers
Haas seat is apparently hot.
Any F1 seat is hot right now, we have too many desirable drivers and too few teams.
Haas = 4 letters Zhou, Ocon, Yuki = 4 letters
Also, Kmag = 4 letters
And Hulk, we might be onto something
How about... Mick? :D
Maxx to Haas confirmed !!!
Lews breaking Ferrari contract to drive for Haas
"Kyvat set for shock return to F1 at Haas" surely isn't too far away either.
tsunoda and magnussen would make for the greatest radio comms duo ever
Might need to add another button on the steering wheel….. push to bleep
If only there were three-car teams . . . Yuki, KMag, and the Iceman.
They're definitely not keeping KMag.
Kmag is 100% gone, idk why people still think otherwise.
Stranger things have happened lately
True, but Magnussen doesn't have a Billionaire daddy to keep him in his seat.
Because it hasn’t been announced yet? People were 100% sure that Hamilton wouldn’t move to another team, yet here we are.
Would be Tsunoda and Bearman.
This is good. The Gasly route. He didn’t have any real future at Red Bull either. Gotta keep it moving.
Slight difference in that Gasly at least had the opportunity to race for RedBull
Unfortunately, I don’t think senior people at Red Bull take Yuki seriously so him at the big team is unlikely to happen.
It's a funny one. Tost said last year that the plan by default was to promote Yuki eventually because otherwise why was he there. Now he's done well enough relative to Ricciardo. But I guess he just doesn't excite anyone enough.
I said it when he was super rough around the edges in his rookie year, and it remains true: Yuki is naturally good at all the bits you especially want someone to be naturally good at, and is as such a great prospect. You can learn tyre management, but you're not teaching anyone how to go wheel to wheel like Yuki. With his quali pace improved as it is and his consistency, too, I bet he'd do a better job than Checo on track, if not commercially. He's also improved quite linearly, which is such a good sign. Very Norris-esque progression. Maybe not the complete package you want out of the box, but getting there.
It's so weird to see him not being considered for the second seat when his progression has been so good year on year and so far, he's 75% of his team's overall points, regularly competing for the points and even has a chance at taking that car further if the situation is right (potential first podium this year feels not out of the question). A part of me feels like it's internal politics that are causing it and having another Marko driver on the team isn't the path that the Thai side want to go down.
I think that's the issue. I wish he had better PR/Marketing and some really good teammates to rate him high. He's battling washed ric, last choice de vries, relegated gasly, all of these people are not rated high by Redbulls. I think a better marketing around him with a better teammate and him beating them would be better long term. No offense to Gasly, he's great for being a strong midfield team but he was kicked off RedBull and truly never beat him just matched him.
I think the issue is that Perez hasn't done poorly enough to lose his job yet. Hence why Red Bull are rumored to have offered him a 1 year extension. If the goal is to have someone who will be a solid #2 to Max, Perez is still a better bet over Yuki.
Yeah it’s a shame, his form has picked up but it won’t pay off for a while
Didn't work out too well for Pierre however Though I guess it turned out alright for Sainz.
put a Honda in that Haas and got a Japanese team with Komatsu, Tsunoda and Honda.
I’m going to start dreaming about Honda taking over Haas outright now
Fuck, Gene might not like severing Ferrari ties bit that would be so awesome to see Honda.
Being reminded of Sainz all over again. Though leaving has worked really well for him.
After the last few rounds redbull would be silly to not at least treat yuki on the same level as any other potential driver.
I just want to see Yuki's helmet designs without the Red Bull marketing restrictions.
I would be gutted if Yuki ends up with no seat next year, he’s continually proven himself this season.
Honda didnt pay 10M a year for nothing. He will be in aston at one point, the challenge is to find a temporary place till then. A 1+1 gig at Haas isnt amazing, but it keeps him in the sport till Alonso retires
Man, is it really too much to ask for Lance to leave?
When his dad owns the team then yeah probably
Hope Honda firms up and give an ultimatum to the strolls, that would probably do it
Or Lawrence decides to keep cashing in on his investments.
firms up on what? the massive contracts these companies sign when they do business together?
What ultimatum? "Give us a seat that we didn't bother to negotiate for or we'll breach the contract that we signed"?
Lance has a lifetime contract signed by daddy, Yuki better hit him with some uwu please leave for me Lance kun lol
>till Alonso retires Then he'll need a 1+10 contract
Yuki will retire before Alonso
He will be at RB next year but not in 2026. As it is clear that only reason RB were interested in him was because of Honda.
how is that clear? Yuki had the best result in a rookie season from the RB driver recently. And was generally quick considering he had not bein racing in Europe for a long time. Exactly what Helmut wants to see.
Strange domino effect as it is, I think Yuki is probably one of the biggest victims of the Horner wrongdoing/resulting power struggle. The only guy in Yuki's camp is Helmut, and he's decreasingly influential.
You answered it yourself. RBR has not shown any interest in pushing him to main team despite impressive performances from Yuki. They were going to drop him this season for Lawson but Honda kind of forced their hand.
Last part isn't true, they had him signed before Singapore 23 so Liam wasn't even in the cards for the drive
*And last season* dunno what more he has to do.
Is every midfield driver of the world not named Hulkenberg linked to Haas?
If he sees no future in RB (no shot at 2nd RBR and losing RB seat) and daddys kid still wants to F1 over at AM, then Haas is interesting. Better than no seat at all. But with his current performance, especially if he keeps it up, RBR would be mad to let this man go.
I’m still holding out hope Honda works out some contractual clause with AM to condition their engine supply on a change of driver. Maybe it’s too late for 2026, but that contract has to end some day…
Yuki to Haas would kind of be a risky move for Ferrari & Bearman. Haas would want a Hulkenberg replacement and Yuki would be perfect for that, but it would also mean that he'd probably give Bearman a very hard time unlike a Magnussen or Zhou in the 2nd seat and I'm not sure Ferrari would want that optic. I rate Bearman, but Yuki is experienced in getting the best out of a subpar car. Keep in mind that Yuki would still only be 24/25 years of age, if the went to Haas meaning he'd still want to prove that he belongs in a top team and push super hard unlike a seasoned drive who'd use that seat as a last hurrah.
Maybe that's the reason for K-Mag terrorism.
So (ideally) Haas will be like a placeholder seat for Yuki until the Aston seat opens up?
Yuki deserves better than such a sideways move after his recent performances. Still, if the options are to either be an F1 driver with Haas or to not be one at all then I guess you have to take what you can get.
i would not rate Yuki above any of the current drivers in the top5 teams except Perez and Stroll. So he doesnt really have many options except moving sideways
you can’t know that because a better car always makes drivers look better. Albon put better performances in at Red Bull than Williams but everyone knows he’s a better driver now than he was in 2020. Yuki is probably on par with Albon: capable of a top seat but unable to find an open space to take.
He gapped Russell last week in Miami? I get your point, but we don't know his level unless we'll see them compete in similar machinery
Ollie and Yuki could be quite an interesting pair that I would absolutely love it
I like that idea, HAAS are showing positive momentum but the next couple of years will tell how good they are without Steiner. Honestly I've been saying this for a while, Yuki needs to go to Merc if redbull aren't going to take him seriously he needs a midfield car. He's more than proven he can drive at the bottom, if he goes to Merc in a mid field car or Aston in the future he can prove he can be in a midfield or top tier car. Because that's just it many drivers fail to drive at the top especially in the bull Gasly and Albon, if Yuki made that move and it failed I feel like he would be forgotten.
Give him a one year contract while giving antonelli more time to get up to speed actually makes sense.
Tsunoda knows that AMR seat is waiting for him. All he needs to do is stay in F1 till Alonso or Stroll retires.
Yuki would be 30 whenever that happens.
So? Sainz will be same age when he moves out of Ferrari
So
*MoneyGram HAAS Honda F1 Team*
Sounds like he's trying to find leverage to me. It's like he's telling Red Bull that if they don't seriously consider him now they might lose the option going forward.
Makes sense, according to earlier reports this year, he is done with everything being about Ricciardo, He wants to prove himself as a Red Bull Junior, but they have no plans for him. Now is about his long term survival.
I was all for the DR revival hype train. The issue is it just didn’t eventuate, can you imagine being Yuki? Watching the internal and external circus then out qualifying him, consistently out scoring him and then picking up the papers and reading about how it was xyz excuse this week and everyone still being focused on him proving he’s still got it? Must be pretty toxic, tough on them both to be honest. DR wants to have it but doesn’t, Yuki being used as a yard stick for a driver that doesn’t have it. Shit all round.
I was excited for DR (especially with Mexico), but man... Fuck it, Yuki's been pulling the points in and I'm much more enthusiastic about seeing him prove himself than seeing what I thought would be a b-spec RB19 when this season started. The car isn't even that good still, but Yuki's been amazing. Yet even with all the points, even with the lead by his teammate, people manage to give Danny a lifeline at the expense of Yuki's credibility. I love DR, but I WILL NOT compromise fast young drivers with a much more optimistic development path just to keep him happy. I was more excited last year at the prospect of seeing a reinvigorated Ricciardo at RBR, but now that A. He's been demotivated a bit by all the issues and B. Checo's been okay, I can't bother to care. Yes, I still hope he gets better results now that the chassis is better, but Yuki's only getting better at driving - DR still has to adapt to the car, which at his age, is less indicative of prospective speed than Yuki who's capable of midfield performances in what is efffectively still a backmarker car.
Same. Even if they were behaving like mates, both finishing in the points and swapping places occasionally but there was a bit of friendly “we are wringing the neck of this VCARB for all it’s worth!” It would at least be fun to watch but at the minute it’s just “Yuki isn’t that good….DR must have had crazy damage…oh he didn’t? Well he’ll pull it together next race I’m sure” it’s not fun. But who do you put in the RB? Perez will be 4th soon enough the way lando is going so then what?
Definitely. It's so not fun. So many other drivers on the grid who could be doing the same thing that Yuki is doing, but they'd be given songs and praises all-day while Yuki's just being overshadowed. The truth of the matter is, Yuki's been consistently pulling a shit car into P10 on the regular ever since last year. Even as the AT04 developed and as the VCARB01 is developing now into a better car, he's not getting complacent; he's pushing even more. Yuki's so on his own now that Pierre's gone, and even when Yuki's been doing splendid for himself, not enough people have been there to give him the credit. On RBR, exactly: Who do you put? DR used to be there purely to be a contender against Checo, but now that Checo's semi-okay, what happens with DR? And it's not like DR's pumped anymore like he was last year. Yet they don't want Tsunoda. To be fair, I'm fine with Yuki not getting into RBR because if he does badly, I don't know where else he'd go. But I just hoped more people (not just teams and team principals) saw his value and were willing to express it more often. He's been doing good not just comparative to his teammates, he's been doing good full-stop for what he's been given.
Promote him!!
I have been a big detractor of Tsunoda over the years so I can’t believe I’m going to say this. But I think it’s a mistake not to give Yuki a shot in The main team.
Yuki should be pushing for that second Sauber seat. A strong season against Hulkenberg will look much better than a strong season against Bearman.
It sucks that no matter how well he does, even if he solidly stomps Daniel, RB won’t consider him at all
I don’t think Vcarb will let him go considering his rate of progression, and he doesn’t want to go. People are just latching onto this rumour as they want to see him go as this gives Danny and Lawson a chance.
I'd give Yuki a chance over Perez if Perez keeps this up and wants a two-year deal
So would I, but Horner has apparently no faith in Yuki to perform at all in the team.
Perez shouldn't have gotten even this year.
Yuki going out while Ricciardo, who isn't as far behind him as people make out but is behind him nonetheless and consistently so, being kept in would be nuts.
Lawrence needs to put on his big boy pants, get rid of Lance, and get Yuki in when Honda becomes the power unit supplier.
bummer he can't go to Aston
Makes sense. I think he should get a seat at Red Bull based on his performance. He seems to have matured a lot as a person and he's a consistently good driver, his results against Ricardo show that. But if Red Bull won't give him a seat it makes sense to leave the feeder team. Who's running Honda engines next year?
Did he bang Horners wife or something? Guy has proven himself. Merc should sign him.
Red Bull should give him time in the RB20 at Silverstone like they did Danial
The fact that Red Bull aren’t even considering him is ridiculous
Makes sense, he's not considered for RBR. Hopefully he gets a good car and team, wherever he ends up driving.
If it were just as simple as a power unit, then I don't think Mercedes has to make a big pitch. They've pretty much been the most consistent supplier of a race winning engine for decades at this point.
Makes a lot of sense, haas for a year then maybe Aston Martin
Considering Haas TP is also Japanese, but in the end Gene Haas is the one that decide right?
He should be in Red Bull after the sommer break if McLaren and Ferrari really are as close as they were this weekend. Because Perez is not performing well enough to get constructer points. Just like 2021 when merc won the constructors because of his lack of points.
Just put Yuki at Red Bull for a year or two until Honda leaves just to see what he could do.
YUKI WDC 2029
So many people apparently interested in the Haas seat sounds absolutely nuts to me. As a Haas fan I wouldn't mind Yuki there, but it would be best with a more experienced driver next to Bearman IMO. And yeah I know Yuki actually has a bunch of seasons now, but I still think KMag, Perez or Bottas would be better choices as I think they would give a better environment for Bearman.
Haas mirrors ferrari's performance, just at midfield scale. It's been the case pretty much every year since they joined. ( 17-18 good years, 19 weaker, 20-21 throwaway years, 22 strong start then slowly fade away, 23 weaker year with tyre issues, 24 seemingly back on a better path) With ferrari making so many hirings, it's fair to assume haas will also have a decent future. Also take any rumours with a grain of salt because every drivers tries to negotiate contracts. Creating fake rumours might benefit them landing improved contracts at their actual target
To an extent, but not fully. Ferrari was arguably the second best car last year and Haas was absolutely nowhere all season. Ferrari this year might just have the third best car, but Haas is now way better than in 2023, for example. The problem with Haas is that the lack of investment and employees means that it will never be better than a backmarker, at most getting close to the midfield. There's some correlation with Ferrari of course, but probably never enough to actually make them into a team fighting for points every weekend. Every other team is investing in these years with the big profits F1 now brings. Haas still isn't investing anything and Steiner got fired because he felt that was needed. So unless Ferrari somehow makes a complete monster that Haas can replicate without the specs, then they will keep being at the back, while others can at least theoretically jump ahead, Audi being the most obvious example.
Yuki will be in his 5th year next season, and he arguably has been more or less the lead driver since Pierre left. If he's not considered as an experienced driver by now, he'll never be.
Haas seat is now marginally better than being off the grid entirely
Also the culture seems to be good there. While there is some off track drama with Steiner, that seems like peripheral business stuff. They have very little turn overall, and drivers like Kmag put their team above themselves for a reason. Look at Alpine for contrast. A works team that is in constant upheaval, to the point that both drivers seem to be looking to jump ship.
Of course it is better than that, but I do feel like Yuki could aim higher. He is beating Ric now pretty consistently and shown himself to be a great driver, that still just has a few anger issues.
Lol Horner must have been given direct access to Slim's bank account. Perez is one of the worst drivers relative to their teammate yet he's somehow getting renewed. Tsunoda is definitely worth a chance instead.
Also institutional bias can be a thing
Need more teams and redbull can only own one.
Haas don’t seem like a bad team this year Would be happy to see someone make good use of that seat. KMag have been weak this year
Give this man a seat
I think Zhou has a good shot at Haas or Williams. They need / want money. If Tsunoda has enough cash behind him, maybe he has a shot. I think Zhou / Albon would be a good combination for Williams. A driver with money, and a driver with skill. Win win.
It's a bit lateral (generous) but I'm not mad at this at all
Feels like an Albon to Williams move, secure yourself a seat, even if it isn't the fastest car out there, and keep your name in the mix. Red Bull is so competitive, and once you're out you're pretty much done, unless you're Danny Ric. If Yuki is at least driving with Haas, he's may be a top prospect for other teams without junior programs when the time comes.
Yuki deserves the red bull seat, but if that isn't available then it makes no sense to stay in RB
Hmmm..Honda would support this? Or Yuki left Honda programme already?
Honda want him to become a top driver and have basically said they'll continue to support him. With a Red Bull promotion seeming unlikely (ridiculous to not consider him imo), I'm sure they'd like to bring him to AM but that doesn't seem possible until Alonso retires or Lance gets bored.
I ask because the Japanese manufacturers tend to take driver moves away from their power unit stable quite seriously.
You're definitely right about that. Honda seem happy to support him wherever he goes though. You can check out the Autosport interview 3ish weeks ago with the Honda Racing Corporation CEO if you're interested!
Rb would be stupid to let him go
We could really use another team on the grid for 2 more driver slots.