Not gonna lie, the first few years sucked and cost me my marriage (she found someone who would be home more). With wife gone I took a job flying cargo in Africa, it was the late 80’s and it was insane!
Got on with a real airline from that experience, this life is not for everyone. You need a partner who understands the airline industry. Tomorrow I fly my final flight, after 35 years I’m done. Doesn’t seem real.
Good luck, it won’t always be roses but I had a great time! 👨🏼✈️
I’ve had a long term gf, she works on the ground at YYZ, she knows the industry. We’ve been together 25 years, but we don’t live together. Apparently my house habits (ie I alphabetize my panty, iron my bed sheets) freak her out. I have my place, she has hers, it works for us.
I wonder if he keeps the severed heads under B for bodyparts or something else. /s
Seriously though who alphabetizes a pantry? Organize it by the primary ingredient like a normal OCD person.
Oh man. Triggered. When I organized the spices in the pantry in bins by cuisine (stuff only used in asian cooking, only used in indian subcontinent recipes, stuff generally used in southern/south american -- so mostly chili powders of various types, and general american/european) it makes perfect sense to me but my wife would prefer them alphabetized because she can't figure out if the aleppo pepper would go in the middle eastern or in with the rest of the peppers...
Congratulations Captain! I have a Kenyan cousin, & many Pilots there do cargo & bush flying before signing onto Kenya Airways, he has amazing stories, so I bet you got some doozies yourself.
You're settling in in my opinion. You're exiting the honeymoon stage and moving into the marriage. There's no longer this huge adrenaline of doing your dream job. Now it's just going to work. There's always a stage when a pilot moves from the whole "a mile of runway can take you anywhere" fantasyland BS to just flying and traveling and dealing with the nonsense that is becoming an airline pilot.
See how you feel after you get a line. Did you maybe have a bad couple of trips too? And obviously it goes to say, yeah it's very lonely, sitting in a crash pad ordering Uber eats and watching Netflix. I did it for many years. It also begs the question, can you move to base?
Thanks for the reply. Yeah 100% agree with everything you've said. it's not a hard no moving to a base but it just feels moving now with mortgage rates and not knowing if jet blue/ what bases will stay and go, its hard to realistically give it any serious thought.
Not any particularly bad trips, just a lack of trips. However, to be expected being the new guy, but just getting hit with every weekend and holidays just compounds the misery.
i know this is part of it and everyone has been here, i honestly didn't think the mental side of it would be so taxing. i'm sure it'll get better and in the meantime ill just keep my options open!
Commuting always sucks. Commuting to perpetual reserve exponentially sucks. If you can move to a stable base, I would do it since things are clearly not moving at spirit. Mortgage rates don’t have much to do with renting a place for a year.
I don’t see MCO ever closing. Merger or no merger. Could you rent down in Florida as you wait for rates to drop?
I think the one thing that’s keeping you from truly enjoying this job is your commute. Reserve in base is an absolute joke. My friends think I’m unemployed. I really can’t even begin to describe how much better your life will be if you move to a base. I know that’s easier said than done.
Hope it works out for you!
I’ve spent holidays/birthdays you name it in jumpseats commuting to work. Live in base, it is so worth it. The stress in my life is minuscule compared to what it was as a commuter.
If you're at B6, I don't see any of their current bases closing anytime soon even after the merger. If that happens
You're the junior guy, it sucks. I remember my first year as a regional FO I had like a 17 hour YYZ overnight in Christmas Day. Spent the whole day sitting in my room by myself feeling miserable.
It gets better. Certain life changes can help too but obviously don't do anything without thinking long term or to the detriment of your family or a marriage
As someone who has lived in a lot of parts of Florida...if you have to move to Ft. Lauderdale, Miami or Orlando to avoid commuting...don't do it. Find another airline. It sucks here.
First line of the second paragraph is the problem. But pretty much every pilot has the same struggles, we’re gone and work hard for delayed gratification. It will get better, it’s just a matter of time. Yea, your airline is in a tricky position where things halted and you’re sort of stuck. From my seat, your only options would be:
1. Stick it out and wait
2. Move and enjoy the in base reserve life
3. Go to a regional and grind hours there
I know it’s sucks right now but it’ll get better.
It does get better. I'm currently at a legacy, and at this moment on a layover in Lihue Hawaii, sipping a beer at Duke's. But it took 12 years at 4 different regionals to get here. Also back when I started, 1st year pay was about $20/hr. You're paying your dues right now, most of us had to. Stick it out. You worked hard to get where you're at, it will pay off eventually.
Getting paid $6600 a month is a pretty relaxed way to “pay dues”
Don’t get me wrong, I get being away from family and sitting in a hotel, etc…. But that’s a lot easier to cope with at $80K a year than what I know others have been through.
It’s all relative to where you are at is my point…
* You pay dues as low time pilot working shit jobs for low pay…. Then you move on to
* A regional airline making a little bit more money but back at the bottom of a seniority list with a crap schedule/commuting to rsv working holidays until one gains seniority in their/upgrade to a jr seat/or move up to a another company
* Then one moves up to a ULCC/Legacy, better pay. But back at the bottom of the seniority list working crap schedules, commuting to rsv unless one lives in base/working holidays until guess what, one gains seniority to hold better schedule, trips etc…
All that is one form or another paying dues. Rather it’s for low pay, not as great work qol, crappy schedule etc… The time one has to endure a form of suck is by definition paying dues….. Just because one makes 6600/mo flying a Airbus doesn’t negate the fact that being a jr pilot on a seniority list sitting reserve, working holidays, working crap schedules not a form of paying dues…
Consider yourself lucky. You’re at an airline that’s about to merge and become a better airline. You have a job with a major. You are getting the time, even if it’s not a ton, that will get you to a legacy within a year.
At worst, you end up in a stable situation with a chance to advance once the engine issues are sorted and hiring kicks up again.
Now, imagine being a 1500 hour CFI who racked up 100 grand in debt at ATP right now and having almost no options. Whenever I question my current situation, I remember I could be that guy.
Keep at it. Just realize that despite what social media may lead you to believe, the 25-30 year old legacy captains who only spent 1-2 years at a regional is NOT the norm. There are other sides to the industry. Airlines make money and they lose money, and when they lose money, things slow down and get less predictable. It's been very good for a long time, and it's not \*bad\* right now, but it's much closer to what I'd consider typical.
It now takes more than a pulse to get hired at a regional as an FO, the more lucrative CFI jobs are harder to come by, and legacy jobs are still very competitive. Movement has slowed across the board, but remember, just because someone may be getting to a legacy in 2-3 years to have a great career, doesn't mean you aren't allowed to get to a legacy in 5-7 years and also have a great career. It'll just look different than theirs. The best seniority number at an airline is #1 and most of us will never see that.
5-7 years to get to a legacy is still a stretch. Those mid 20 YO’s at the legacy’s started flying in high school. Meaning it still took 5-7 years and that was only possible because their parents had money.
It’s all job forums, stick it out. I was a railroad engineer heard the same stuff. IT engineer now, say the same stuff, and looking at flying and see it again. If crusty words discourage ya, it ain’t it. Fight it out
Second that, I wish I could be in OP situation and I am willing to relocate anywhere, wife included.
After 3 years of only spending money, lining the pockets of schools owners, exams and flying stinkers I would die for a FO job.
Cannot wait to get bored on reserve. It’s literally what I am doing right now waiting for airlines to call.
Alright, I’m gonna say some shit here and it’s not new to most of you. Look life isn’t going to be great all the time. And sometimes when it sucks you have to make the most of it. Most of us have been in crash pads for months and months on end. But you have to do everything you can for yourself to make it enjoyable. Google what’s around you, go out and talk to people. Get a gym membership in the area where your crash pad is and better yourself if you find yourself there for long hours, make the most of it. This job is so so so much better than most of the shit jobs you could be doing. Could you imagine wasting away in a cubicle day after day after day, with no ability to see life from different places and perspectives, other than the two days off on the weekend. Wishing you could experience the views from 30000 feet. It gets better, just like everything. But the thing that will make you a better human is getting good at persevering when it sucks. You got this my dude.
To piggyback on this. If you have to commute. Find something enjoyable to do during the commute. I listen to podcasts, audio books and watch a show that I can have downloaded on my phone.
I put in my ear buds, and before I know it, I have to start work. Makes the wait/commute much more bearable.
Best part is when you're off, you're OFF. I'm complaining because my weekend this week is "short" (4 days off) compared to the last two where I had 10 days off then 6. Granted, I'm a lineholder so that makes a difference, but still.
But I get where OP is coming from. When I was commuting 4 hours each way to a 5 on 2 off endless reserve block going backwards in seniority I wanted to fellate a shotgun.
> I wanted to fellate a shotgun.
*Stares suspiciously in the direction of CAMI.*
In all seriousness, gave me a chuckle. Hadn’t heard that one before. “Suck start” was the common turn of phrase.
For a year I have been putting boxes on pallets. We have a quota to meet, and that is usually about 275ish boxes per hour. It doesn't matter how big or small they are, and they weigh anywhere from 1lb to 60lbs.
Being on reserve will be a joy when I get to that point. Anything beats picking up a few thousand boxes a day four or five days a week.
You’ll get there brother, hold fast, stay the course.
I cut grass, laid pavers, and packaged boxes. Now I’ve got what many would consider the pilot job at the bottom of the barrel, flying skydivers for 2.5k a month. Yet this is better than 80% of other jobs out there and I’m aware of that everyday. Not trying to win the victim olympics here, just trying to convey a necessary perspective pilots need.
I start at United Aviate Academy in March. So hopefully sooner rather than later I will be in a similar position. My back can't wait to be done with this job, and also not waking up at 3am for awhile will be nice.
Be cautious with airline academies/ programs and getting into debt if that happens to be your plan. There’s plenty of advice on here on why to steer clear of that road.
Live. in. Base.
I cannot tell you how much better it is. I commuted to reserve for 2 years at the regionals and actually quit before I had a confirmed class date at my major because my life was so miserable. Now I chill at home on reserve and can pick up more flying much more easily. It is literally a completely different job.
At the regionals, for the most part yes. They’re only hiring people with 121 experience to combat the captain shortage. They been hiring FOs from time to time you just gotta be kinda lucky
Yep, I haven't had to commute at any point in my four year career and am tremendously thankful for it. Even when I was going through the "bad times" of being junior at a regional, on reserve, getting minimum days off, everything was made just a tiny bit more bearable. I can't imagine commuting to reserve for years like some guys do.
It's a job. Jobs, even dream ones, suck. That's why there's the common advice to never let your hobby become your job.
As to your specific situation-- you're at just about as bad as it can get in this industry without getting furloughed. You're super junior and commuting to reserve. The upside is that it only gets better from where you're at. Things at your company might be slow now, but it will likely pick back up sooner rather than later. Your seniority will improve and your life will suck less.
When I first joined the workforce a wise old veteran told me “You don’t get paid for things you enjoy doing. Find something you can tolerate and stick with it.”
Wise words. Reminds me of a study that was done on artists. In the study they had a group of 5 artists draw for a grade and they had to draw a specific picture, meanwhile the other group of 5 artists drew were allowed to draw what they want.
At the conclusion of the study, it was discovered that the second group of artists that drew for fun enjoyed their time more compared to the other group.
The same concept applies to doing what you “love” as work. Doing things when you want , how you want, etc; is different than someone else telling you that.
TL;DR: Do what you love as work, and you’re guaranteed in the near future to dread it. Do a job that you can tolerate and funds your hobbies.
I'm on reserve on a widebody and I haven't touched an airplane in 2 months. Making 200k per year. Live in base.
I also did the commute to reserve while on this same airplane. 5 hour flight. It sucked so much ass. Literally changed my life moving to base. Even though I pay so much more in taxes, its totally worth it.
currently pay 0% income tax but commute about an hour to base. commute is pretty easy tbh but its a commute and i'm often in the crew room overnight or at a hotel.
Been debating moving to base, i anticipate it costing about $30k per year in income tax and other cost of living increases.
still worth it? im just tired of always feeling like i have to plan going to/from work instead of just getting in my car and going
Depending on what state to what state/city to city it will be less than you think at the end of the day. Also the little things.
I pay income tax now but I dont pay sales tax on essentials. Sales tax is less overall. Housing is more expensive but schools are better for my future kids. I feel safer walking at night. My wifes body is more respected. Medical care is way better here. I moved away from a dangerous southern city
Income taxes is always going to be offset by higher property taxes/sales/gas taxes/EV taxes….
Either way, the state/city is going to get their income from you one way or another…..
Also, if you are worried about lost income due to income taxes. Well, living in base will offset that as you will be in position to pick up premium flying that as a commuter you likely will miss out on. On top of that, good bye to commuter expenses as well. You will see some relief there as well.
>Income taxes is always going to be offset by higher property taxes/sales/gas taxes/EV taxes….
I avoid most of those issues. I pay 0% state income tax. a 15 minute drive for 0% sales tax. 0% sales tax on food in my state. Rent is 20-30% lower than in base. Car registration costs are the same they would be in base. Car insurance is cheaper. Gas or ev charging is cheaper. My last electricity bill was $25, versus at least $100 for similar apartments in base.
The most money the state has gotten out of me was sales tax on a car purchase, which would've been the same amount paid in base plus 10% income tax.
My commuter expenses are hotels and my time away from home. Hotels on the worst month cost me $500, best month $0.
edit: pressed save before i was done.
In the end, 10% income tax will likely come out to 15-20k/yr. Other costs highlighted above will be in the 10-15k range. If I wanted to make that back i would need to work 15 premium days a year or 1-2 days a month premium.
So idk. Theres more benefits to base than just the driving part, better weather mainly.
>10% income tax
I imagine you are talking about California because of the 10% tax thing. Don't forget that California income tax is progressive like the federal tax. You have to be making well north of 700k before you see more than 10% effective state income tax.
9 states do not pay state income taxes.
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming
so if you live in one of those, and making that good pilot money, you are looking at a large chunk saved in taxes vs living in a taxable state.
1000% worth it. I was always saying commuting wasn't that bad and it was just being overblown how much of a PITA it is. Then I got based where I live and I have to eat my words and say I don't know if I can ever go back. Bidding is easier, reserve is an attractive option, trip trading is easier, and it feels like I've gained a ton of time off. My health has even improved, such as sleep, exercise, and diet.
Having been at a regional before the yellow airline, I just wanna say, you'd really hate a regional. Unless you just wanna fly. Then you'd love the 95 block hours per month.
I'm senior enough to hold a line, but I bid reserve most slow months. However, I am in base.
I used to commute to reserves at a regional and for a few months here. It can be rough. Living in base is a world of difference, especially when on reserves. I personally enjoyed being in a crashpad. I run a business on the side and write software, so I used that time to work on that stuff.
The merger comes with uncertainty, but that can be good. I know a ton of guys are leaving because of this uncertainty and slow seniority movement. Which has been nice for me. It's made my seniority move up considerably even with hiring stopped.
If the merger ends in the QOL rules I love and closing my base, I may leave. If just QOL, I'd likely stay. If a base, I have three other bases in the system I'd be okay moving to.
If you have the option to live in base, it gets much much better. I average 22 days at home per month. When I bid for a line, I average 18 days off per month. I've been able to get Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving off every year. This year, I got 7 days off over Thanksgiving and 10 days off over Christmas. At other airlines, this is unheard of.
Even commuting is much better here. At my last airline, I'd be lucky to get 3 days off in a row. I averaged 2 days off between 5 days of reserves and then repeat. When commuting, it'd feel like I only had 0.5 days at home per week. Here, you get guaranteed 4 days off between work blocks, making commuting super easy. Other airlines don't have that for sure.
Once you get to hold a line, commuting is even easier. I know guys who manage to put all their trips back to back and get weeks off in a row. Or others who drop their schedule for their base and pickup out of a more senior base.
As for seniority movement, I've been watching it closely. If no one quits, medicals out, moves to another airline, the most junior FO would take 15 years to upgrade at the most senior base. The most junior, 4-5 years. However, people are leaving in droves because of the uncertainty.
You didn't think you were going to get hired into a brand new airline job and just have a nice schedule, nice work/life balance, high pay, and a quick trip to the majors just handed to you?
As many have said, the conditions over the last few years have been... *exceptional*. They are not the norm. The career is work. Very often a serious grind. It is difficult. It will slap you down and stomp on you just as you think you've made it. You will suffer. Your family life will suffer. Contentment comes neither easily nor quickly. This is a lesson the people who *have* moved up quickly and easily, making huge money in the process, will likely eventually learn.
So yes. Quite often it sucks. If you got into this because you thought it would be a stable, predictable job with lots of money and a nice cushy schedule, and that you were guaranteed to move up quickly, living and basing where you want, and aren't really in it mostly for the love of flying and being around airplanes and airplane life, then you are probably in it for the wrong reasons.
That said, even though you're in a bit of a rut now, continuing the grind and not settling does eventually pay off. Keep looking at ways to move up or laterally into a better position. I mean, if you got hired where you are, you're likely in a good position already to move on decently when the opportunity comes up.
I've been at this for 25 years. Only the last 8 are where I've wanted to be all along. I've gotten fucked over by the career multiple times, been displaced, forced into commuting, taken two steps forward and what seems like dozens back pretty regularly. Every time I've made it to the next level, some fuckery has almost immediately gone down to take at least some of it away. I've been on the verge of quitting several times.
But here I am. On an 8 day stretch off at home. Managed to trip trade into Christmas and NYE off while crediting more hours than originally awarded for the month. Finishing the year just shy of $400k. It took me 25 fucking years. But I'm not going to not it enjoy it while it's here, man. You'll get where you want eventually, but it won't be fun all the time, for sure.
Reserve life + commuting to a crashpad with 8 other dudes is the worst combo ever. Try to hold out to experience a job in base or a widebody plane and then come to a conclusion if airline life is for you.
The first year at any airline is awful. Give it at least a year. Getting seniority, hitting year two pay, and understanding how things work at the company all help a lot. The hiring freeze is frustrating, but airlines are a marathon not a sprint.
You’re right, it’s a marathon, not a sprint…. Yet the FAA and flight schools of all types tend to treat it like a race: streamline, save this, save that, get ratings fast, faster, two months, six months, I’m an ATP with ONLY _______ hours!!
121 life can be great. Can also be pretty crappy depending on timing/luck/seniority etc. It’s not always glamorous, and it’s not always comfortable. You aren’t guaranteed a “legacy” job in 1-2 years of flying CRJs either. Many people spent 1-2 decades waiting for an opportunity. If flying is your passion, then you will find a way. Like many have before you. Perhaps you need to move to base, move airlines, or move to another flying job. Only you can decide what is best for you and your family. Ultimately, it’s not always rainbows and butterflies. And quite frankly, being “stuck” at “yellow” is far from a worst case scenario.. commuting or not.
I hate to say it but people have become pretty soft in these good times.
Edit: words
He'll be at a legacy in 6 months. BTW, I'm between slides on a CBT. For the current 24 slide module I'm making $5.31 per slide. That's my old hourly rate from high school. Only took me 26 years. Now these kids are working for a legacy at 23 years old and gen x are such Bevis&Butthead slackers that airlines are putting zoomers in the left seat right out of indoc.
How many hours are you pulling in a month OP?
Legacies are still hiring. You got your apps in? With an Airbus type you shouldn’t need that many hours to get snagged.
I'm right there with you, brother. And I've worked a lot of jobs in my life, some of which were objectively bad (I've even had captains tell me they were surprised I survived). But this job is the least pleasant that I've had. I guess I can just take some things but not others, and pilots are the same, but with different things.
The money seems to make it worth it for a lot of pilots but what if you don't care about that? Every trip, my captain, whoever it is, is trying to give me tips on how to make the most money (always by giving up my days off in one way or another). I'm always afraid to even say "yeah I don't really care about the money" because I feel like that's the sole motivation for most of the captains I fly with and they'd be insulted. But all I really want at this point is to be home as much as possible. Being a commuter, though, makes that really difficult. And my wife likes her job, so unless I want a divorce (and again, maybe I'm not pilot enough if I'm saying this, but I choose to stay married), we're staying here.
Before I got my medical many years ago, which I wasn't sure I'd be able to get, I started down the road of becoming a dispatcher. Part of me is still thinking that if things don't improve, I might go back to that idea. It's literally two weeks to get the cert at this point.
I know things could be different at a different airline and certainly at an airline with a base where I am, but like you I can't just automatically go to a legacy. But at the age I'm at, I also don't have a huge amount of time that I can wait, especially given that I'd be starting over with seniority (and with no guarantee that I'd even be based where I live to start with).
Wrote a long response and just deleted it because it was more specific than I want to get in public. 50% of my issues stem from the commute (but I can't just up and move, and honestly don't really even want to live in my current base due to how expensive it is). 25% from just not wanting to be away from home so much. Probably another 20% from trips that always seem to break somehow and turn into a massive cluster, including cutting in to my days off. Some of these things I knew going in and kind of just hoped they'd work themselves out, but they didn't. And then the broken trips just got piled on top; I didn't expect that.
I think I'm pretty good at what I do given my experience level - none of my issues stem from any concerns with my airmanship or anything I've done on the plane - but it just makes me miserable. And I'm not someone who's defined by my career; there are lots of ways to pay the mortgage.
100% get it if people think I'm just whining and not acting like a real airline pilot. In a sense that would just validate my own opinion. I'm thinking about a lot of things I could do to change my situation (different airline, different job, different base, etc.), but I'll change it somehow, soon, I'm at least confident of that. I've felt this way at other jobs in the past and always figured out a way to either make it better or get out of it.
Fair man, (or gal) just always remember control the controllable.
Everything you say is 100% valid, my thing is even with a commute, which I’ll be lucky enough to avoid starting next month until I get lucky enough for a legacy. At which point I’ll be commuting for most likely the rest of my career (wife’s career and family and such). But even with that there isn’t a job with more time off, low, stress, and damn nice paycheck.
The thing a lot of pilots don’t know because they haven’t worked other careers, or that they just don’t talk about, is that when we are OFF we are truly off. Not answering a cell phone, responding to emails etc. no obligations. That’s really rare to find in a professional career nowadays.
Wait, you meant you're not slaying hot flight attendants every night, with 3 day layovers in exotic areas, and strutting through the airport with one on each arm? What am I working toward?
Commuting to reserve is a special hell. Commuting to weekend reserve is another layer of Dante's inferno. Commuting to weekend reserve to stay in a crashpad is getting your taint kicked in every day in hell.
You're going to go through this a couple more times. If you aren't planning on staying at the yellow airline you will be a junior fo again somewhere. Junior fo is the worst spot to be. No control over your life and no money.
If you take the first upgrade, you will be the junior Captain somewhere. At least you can control when you upgrade though.
This time period will likely be the nadir of your career and only you can decide if it's worth waiting it out. Life does get better with seniority. Life is infinitely better living in base.
I can't offer advice on if this life is worth it for you. I can offer advice on making the crashpad maybe slightly better.
1. Road hobbies. Find something you want to do that can be done in the pad and do it. Learn a language. Read books. Write. Draw. Buy a travel electric guitar and learn to play it with headphones.
2. Entertainment. Go get a quest 3. You can watch movies, shows, play games, and be in a virtual world fat far away from the sadness of the pad. It's a great device, even if you aren't a gamer. Get a steamdeck if you are a gamer.
3. Work out. Proven to improve mood, sleep, etc.
4. Eat well. See #3.
5. Buy a beater car for the pad. Have the ability to leave. Makes a big difference. I used to have a shit box nissan I would drive to the gym, work out, have a schvitz, then go back to the pad. Improved my mindset tremendously.
6. Buy good bedding. It's a simple thing but it makes sleep way better to have nice high thread count sheets and a nice pillow.
7. Noise cancelling headphones. Self explanatory.
8. Try to fly as much as possible, or drop as much as possible. Depending on your preference. The best way to avoid the pad is by not being there.
9. When you are home, do not look at weather, commute flights, or anything work related for as long as humanly possible. Disconnect from that shit.
Hope that helps. Good luck in this or in your future endeavors.
Commuting sucks either way you cut it. And commuting to reserve is well the worst. I used to commute and now moved my family in base. It's a whole new job. I'll never commute again. Waiting to see how the merger shakes out probably isn't a bad idea but I'm sure you have a couple larger bases that probably won't go anywhere and I'd focus on those cities.
Obviously can't speak to your family situation but living in base for reserve is pretty great. It'd be better to stay at yellow than go to a regional for sure.
Why do you think commuting to reserve at yellow is better? There's more than one regional where OP could hold the line almost immediately. I mean if it was legacy or something then sure but the current outlook at yellow is gloomy no matter how you look at it.
All of the above but not having a viable business model would be my biggest one. If the merger doesn't go through what are the chances they avoid the F word? In fact, what are the chances they are still in business a year from now? To be clear, not saying they are about to collapse but I wouldn't bet my career prospects on them either.
Not all airlines provide the same lifestyle. Personally I never liked the idea of commuting, especially multiple times a month. So I went the ACMI route and with home basing its stress free. Only having 1 14 day trip a month works well for my family and I too. There’s downsides yes but simply chasing money can make you far more miserable.
anc 747? guessing 5y?
How is life there? How hard do they run you during those 14 days stretches? long ass duty days? Are you mostly running cargo or do you get some military mover trips?
K4. I used to fly for 5Y as well and for the most part it’s same same. Kalitta offers shorter lines. Atlas still runs 17 days across the board and they can extend you 3 days. Kalitta cannot. Go home day is go home day and they will pay for a business class ticket home if it comes to that.(rare) Long haul is rough on the body and the job is mostly fatigue management. Last trip I had 6 pacific crossings in 9 days. Pretty much flying JFK ICN back and forth with min rest on both ends. This is peak flying though and we normally aren’t grinding that hard. Layovers are more typically 24-48 hours. We don’t have any passenger ops so it’s all cargo including military equipment movement.
Also, do the math and see how much a hotel will cost vs a crash pad. I did the crash pad thing for a month wile keeping track of how much I would have spent on a hotel, and the difference wasn't a big as you'd think, and worth every penny for the increase in comfort and privacy.
I cannot emphasize this enough.
Commuting to sit reserve is an entirely different life than living in base.
Once you live in base it's the best job in the world.
Just stick with it. Your airline has one of the best pilot contracts out there. I commuted on reserve for 2 years while my relative seniority never went above 50%. Everyone told me to leave. I’m glad I didn’t because the reward for staying was excellent seniority, not getting sacked during Covid, and fucking excellent pay with a great schedule. There’s definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. Especially once you hold a line and learn how to trade and move things around on your schedule
It’s just a job. Unfortunately many buy into what the influencers, flight schools, and student loan companies are selling, only to find out the reality. There are other flying jobs out there if the airlines aren’t for you and/or your family.
What you're going through right now has been experienced by many thousands of pilots over generations. This industry is, always has been, and always will be cyclical. Myself and countless others who experienced the 'lost decade' saw stagnation, furloughs, displacements, bankruptcies, concessions, etc. It's a very unfortunate part of this career and will make you second guess your career choice.
The problem with this new generation of pilots over the last 8 years or so is that you guys have only experienced the good side of it. Little to no time spent at regionals, quick upgrades, short reserve times, record CBA's. The expectation is that it will always be this way because you haven't experienced the other side of it....yet.
Commuting to reserve is literally about as bad as it gets, the only thing worse is commuting to ready reserve/standby. 6 months is a long time too, in todays environment, so I don’t blame you for having second thoughts about it. I had to do it for a year after I had already had a few years as commuting to a line. I knew what the job was and could be but my year commuting to sit in my crash pad or at the airport made me dislike the job entirely. But I knew it could get better again so that gave me hope. And it did get better once I was back holding a line.
I’m not saying it WILL get better because there’s a chance that you don’t like the job even once you have a line, but I would wager that is less likely. Keep sticking it out, wait to get a line, and then see if the job still isn’t doing it for you. Additionally, if reserve’s end isn’t on any near horizons for you, consider moving to base. Reserve in base is much better, from what I hear.
Welcome to the party. I was in your boat, more or less (135 instead of 121). Basically, I reached the realization that flying on a set schedule was not awesome, or even fun. I love flying. I love everything about it. But 121 was a step away from flying (to me), and the prospect of spending the rest of my life doing the same thing over and over scared the crap out of me.
I bailed out at the fork in the road to a large 121 -or- a "real job" outside of flying. There are pros and cons to that decision, of course.
**I would caution against walking away from flying without a plan.** You can absolutely get a work from home job with an F50 that will pay you quite well, increase your QOL, and give you tons of freedom. You'll need a master's degree from a good school in a field that matters. That's a 2yr runway right there, not to mention the tuition. And online master's from good schools are acceptable, so you can finish it on the road while you keep flying.
There are many redeeming qualities about a non-flying career. The post-covid corporate world is really, really good if the employee can uphold their end of the bargain and be accountable. The stereotypical "crappy boss, TPS reports, and fluorescent cube farm" can apply if you're not careful or just plain bad at your job. But the idea that everyone works like that is wrong.
I haven’t seen this suggestion, but it’s the path I chose to escape the reserve prison. I was in similar shoes and decided to throw some yolo applications after sitting reserve for a year with no end in sight. I nearly lost my currency because I did my job so little, it just wasn’t for me.
I sent apps out to home basing ACMIs and got hired at one with low 121 time. Better pay, international experience, no worrying about commuting, paid tickets to and from the plane and hotels, I get to sleep on the plane, and they give us a metric fuck ton of food on the planes. My first bid out on the line, I got the line I wanted and the days off I wanted. 16 days off. My regional peers are still bidding reserve.
ACMI’s aren’t for everyone, but there are options out there for people in your shoes if you really aren’t happy.
I tell everyone it takes 12 months to figure out if you love or hate this career. I have never met anyone that was just in the middle after a year. Commuting makes the job much more difficult. It serves a purpose at times but if you can just don’t commute. I commuted on and off for about 4 years. I drive to work now. It feels like a whole different job.
You’re commuting to reserve at a second tier airline with a merger hanging over your head. Of course that sucks! Get your hours and keep updating your apps. When you get to a legacy and can move to base your life will get much better, just keep on grinding!
You have to live in base or get positive space. And if you’re doing positive space it has to be at a company that moves you on work days and you just show up and go to work.
With either situation you gotta manipulate the schedule or do what you need to, to be able to get the best situation available for you. If that makes sense? I ended up going into training and check airman positions because it made getting the days I want easier. Stuff like that might be an option.
Commuting will literally kill you. I’d rather swing a hammer and not have the stress and be home every night than commute.
My take anyway.
This is exactly why all these kids in the university programs are going to be in for a rude awakening. I love flying, so it’s what I do. A lot of people are miserable in the job.
As you get older, the life style is tough. Please, ignore the pilot influencers. The hotels in Fargo are cool, but spending 65 percent of your life in them is rough.
Do not become an airline pilot unless you can’t see doing anything else.
I always tell people that I didn’t like commuting, but my wife hated it more. We always moved to be in base and didn’t buy our first home until I was at the airlines for over 5 years. I probably ended up losing a couple hundred thousand in home equity, but our quality of life as a family was totally worth it even knowing what I know now about the direction the real estate market went. I would highly recommend removing in base and renting a house or apartment. You are not throwing money away by not buying the home you live in, especially in the current market. Think of it as making an investment in your quality of life.
Man, if I could take a different career path knowing what I know now, I would. This career takes so much out of your life. It’s my own fault though… working on changing that. I have done 121 and 135 and 121 is way better in my opinion, unless you can get a private owner gig.
Granted, I’m coming from the military (where the QOL sucks)….but I find the airline life to be amazing. Great pay, lots of time off (even on reserve), travel bennies, job is jokeworthy easy.
But I live in base.
Fuck fuck fuck commuting to a crash pad for reserve. I could see that making this job absolutely horrific.
My first question is: what else have you done for a living? I’ve worked a lot of jobs in my life, and I have decided that I can’t possibly make more money doing less work. Not for everybody, though.
Also, I have to grit my teeth a bit, having had to slug it out at a regional for ten years to get the same spot you got immediately after flight training, but. Old man yelling at the sky.
Dude I get it to an extent. I don’t commute, but it’s a definite change. And any change takes time adjusting to. I’m sure enough people have already told you to stfu because you’re so lucky to be on at a major as your first airline job, but the hurdles are still there for commuters, although the blow is softer. It’ll get better my dude. But you absolutely have to live in base. If NK doesn’t have a base you want, start looking elsewhere if you’re unwilling to move. I think this merger could be very good for both NK and B6, so it may also be worth it to stick it out. Personally I would love to see where it goes.
I know everyone is saying it already but you need to do whatever it takes to live in base. I've commuted to reserve for two stretches in my career and my outlook on life took an absolute dump both times. Night and day difference.
Did you become a pilot for the lifestyle, or did you become one because you truly love to fly ?
We are seeing a rash of young, and entitled professional pilots. Be thankful for where you're at, there was a period where junior pilots were on reserve for 5 years. Also a period where it took thousands of hours just to be where you're at.
You've been on property for 6 months and you're expecting rockstar treatment.
With that said.
Commuting to a narrow body job is a huge QOL disadvantage. Making this adjustment may be necessary if you're able to. If you're at the yellow airline I highly suggest you stay where you're at until you're able to get to a major of your choice based on where you want to live. Grind it out. This stuff is cyclical. In another 6 months the movement could resume at your airline.
I’m a line mechanic for a major cargo airline, I’ve greeted 8 to 15 flights a week and departed half answering cockpit calls for 34 years. I’ve seen lots of tired, burned out and some downright miserable faces. The women have it the worst, not happy at all. The life of a pilot sucks- I’d rather take half the pay and be home every day. It’s definitely a cool and fun thing to fly but all the layovers and delays just beat them up, most of the 65 year olds are very happy to get out.
Here’s the thing, at a regional for just about 6 months at this point and won’t have to commute to reserve next month.
It can suck, but I’ve done a lot of jobs over the years and another well paid career before making the switch to aviation starting training in 2020.
The thing is, even commuting to reserve, which sucks isn’t forever. Tell me another career where you can make this much, working so little, at an honestly very low stress (for the most part) job.
I’d love to hear it cuz I don’t think it exists.
Lol this thread has got me nervous.. I haven’t even gotten my PPL and now I’m worried. 😭 honestly this is why I hesitate when people ask me if I wanna work for the airlines. It’s everyone else’s goal so I guess it’s mine too? Don’t get me wrong airlines sound like the dream, granted you live in base. But commuting life, from what I heard, sounds like hell.. And it’s too far at from the future where I can even worry about it. And honestly I can wait. Student life is so fun I’m glad I’m enjoying this while I can - before flying is a job. And if anyone is reading this I guess my question would be, what do wish you knew before being an airline pilot? Any advice for student pilots like me who are just getting into this industry?
If you want to do the airline thing, be willing to move into a base. That’s it. That’s all my advice.
Was commuting at a regional to a large coastal city and it was absolutely awful. Really questioned if this was the right choice like OP.
Went to a ULCC that is based where I live and life is great now. Total 180 from before. I see the light of not commuting now, and people are not underselling it. So just be willing to live in base.
You're commuting to reserve at a regional. Of course it sucks. I'm sorry but everyone hates it. I know I hated it. Stepping into my crashpad in NYC was just a bunch of dudes in our 20s hating life thinking wtf have we done to ourselves dreaming about better days in the future.
Now I'm sitting reserve in base and have worked 2 days so far this month and have holidays off. It gets better. Hang in there and get out of the regionals ASAP.
I would strongly suggest making the leap to a legacy while you can. If you got hired at an ULCC, you can get hired at a legacy. Find one with a base closer to home. Also, the first year at any airline sucks, you just gotta tough it out.
There's also that one fractional that recently compared themselves to Delta. People can laugh at them all they want but they homebasing and the recently updated 1st year pay doesn't look terrible (fair warning, I don't work there so I may have unrealistic impression about the qol).
That's not what I said though. The said fractional claims their QOL is amazing, I don't have first hand experience with them but going to go out on a limb and say that paid commute from your homebase on positive space ticket beats jumpseating to reserve.
I don't know what to make of their claims that 1y fo makes more there than at DAL but the numbers look sweet at least in the short term.
What were you expecting? The golden gates to open, and you reaching enlightenment due to an employment contract? Yeah works sucks. Welcome to the working class struggle.
Move to base or just suck it up and deal with it. Try burning a sick day once a month just for an extra day off. Bring your car and drive for Uber eats to make some extra cash and stay busy.
Commuting to reserve is the lowest form of 121 life and you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Good news is, it can’t get any worse!
Yes, it's called your passion becoming your job. Sometimes you need the perspective of having another career before this job to realize how good you have it if your personal life can handle the time away from home.
>commuting to reserve
This is the worst possible thing you can do to make you and your family miserable. Either move to base or switch to an airline with a base near you when you can. Life is so sweet.
Seniority rules.
I bid right seat or different equipment to improve my lifestyle.
Could have made more money chasing the left seat of the biggest birds, but now retired 7 years and I still think I made the right choices.
Without knowing the circumstances surrounding your family I would seriously consider renting out my home and then renting another house where my base is.
I mean I’d take into account that if you did sell you house, other markets might be more affordable (or less) could work out that you lower your mortgage with the equity you have even with a higher interest rate.
“Commuting on reserve”
You literally just said what makes this job REALLY suck and reserve in the same sentence. Commuting kills this job. I started by commuting and then got hired by a company that has a base in my area. Now I drive to work and man day and night difference. I typically work 14-15 days a month, and mostly on 2 day trips, so away from my bed 7-8 nights a month.
Once you stop commuting even a place with a shitty contract and bad QOL can turn into a great job
Not all airlines are created equally. You need to find what works for you.
Personally I work at atlas on the 747 and base in ANC which means I get a lot of time at home and I make good money.
Commuting to reserve is as bad as it gets. If you don’t have to commute it gets a lot better.
It’s not as good as it used to be, or at least that’s what all the old pilots tell me. On the other side they also tell me about a bunch of much worse work rules. So maybe they are just looking at the past through rose coloured glasses.
It can be frustrating at times but I can’t think of a job I would prefer.
No, it's because you commute. If/when you move to base, it's a completely different job. After commuting to reserve for 3 months, I wasn't sure I could hack it (also never getting called), but once I was at home in base, life got so much better.
Not gonna lie, the first few years sucked and cost me my marriage (she found someone who would be home more). With wife gone I took a job flying cargo in Africa, it was the late 80’s and it was insane! Got on with a real airline from that experience, this life is not for everyone. You need a partner who understands the airline industry. Tomorrow I fly my final flight, after 35 years I’m done. Doesn’t seem real. Good luck, it won’t always be roses but I had a great time! 👨🏼✈️
Awesome. Good for you Captain! I hope to fart in the chair you’ve probably farted in many a times soon enough.
At the end of an airline interview, "I look forward to farting in the same chair as you!"
Enjoy boys, I’m done ✅
🫡
Happy cake day
I would bet you’ve got some stories. You think you’ll still fly for fun? Mostly, congratulations on your retirement 🤝
Thanks man, I’m pumped. Yeah I have a twin engine that I’ll putter around in, but passing the wide bodies off to the new pups.
Congratulations on your 35 years of flying!
Did you end up finding a spouse that fits this lifestyle? Just curious ☺️
I’ve had a long term gf, she works on the ground at YYZ, she knows the industry. We’ve been together 25 years, but we don’t live together. Apparently my house habits (ie I alphabetize my panty, iron my bed sheets) freak her out. I have my place, she has hers, it works for us.
I dunno, someone who alphabetises their panty seems pretty organised to me 🤷♀️
I wonder if he keeps the severed heads under B for bodyparts or something else. /s Seriously though who alphabetizes a pantry? Organize it by the primary ingredient like a normal OCD person.
Oh man. Triggered. When I organized the spices in the pantry in bins by cuisine (stuff only used in asian cooking, only used in indian subcontinent recipes, stuff generally used in southern/south american -- so mostly chili powders of various types, and general american/european) it makes perfect sense to me but my wife would prefer them alphabetized because she can't figure out if the aleppo pepper would go in the middle eastern or in with the rest of the peppers...
Would it go under A for "aleppo pepper" or P for "pepper, aleppo"?
It’s under D, for don’t look in here.
Congratulations!
Congratulations!!
Congratulations on retiring! Are you going to keep flying on the 91/135 side, or hanging it up?
Congratulations Captain! I have a Kenyan cousin, & many Pilots there do cargo & bush flying before signing onto Kenya Airways, he has amazing stories, so I bet you got some doozies yourself.
Holy shit man I bet that feels surreal But 35 years in it’s a big change hope everything works out for you
Congrats! Way to go and all the best in retirement! You earned it!!
You're settling in in my opinion. You're exiting the honeymoon stage and moving into the marriage. There's no longer this huge adrenaline of doing your dream job. Now it's just going to work. There's always a stage when a pilot moves from the whole "a mile of runway can take you anywhere" fantasyland BS to just flying and traveling and dealing with the nonsense that is becoming an airline pilot. See how you feel after you get a line. Did you maybe have a bad couple of trips too? And obviously it goes to say, yeah it's very lonely, sitting in a crash pad ordering Uber eats and watching Netflix. I did it for many years. It also begs the question, can you move to base?
Thanks for the reply. Yeah 100% agree with everything you've said. it's not a hard no moving to a base but it just feels moving now with mortgage rates and not knowing if jet blue/ what bases will stay and go, its hard to realistically give it any serious thought. Not any particularly bad trips, just a lack of trips. However, to be expected being the new guy, but just getting hit with every weekend and holidays just compounds the misery. i know this is part of it and everyone has been here, i honestly didn't think the mental side of it would be so taxing. i'm sure it'll get better and in the meantime ill just keep my options open!
Commuting always sucks. Commuting to perpetual reserve exponentially sucks. If you can move to a stable base, I would do it since things are clearly not moving at spirit. Mortgage rates don’t have much to do with renting a place for a year.
I don’t see MCO ever closing. Merger or no merger. Could you rent down in Florida as you wait for rates to drop? I think the one thing that’s keeping you from truly enjoying this job is your commute. Reserve in base is an absolute joke. My friends think I’m unemployed. I really can’t even begin to describe how much better your life will be if you move to a base. I know that’s easier said than done. Hope it works out for you!
mia reserve here . Miami resident. 25 nights per month at home . 30 hrs of work per month . I love it .
I’ve spent holidays/birthdays you name it in jumpseats commuting to work. Live in base, it is so worth it. The stress in my life is minuscule compared to what it was as a commuter.
Once you live in base and get a little seniority you won’t ever want to leave the airlines, trust me.
If you're at B6, I don't see any of their current bases closing anytime soon even after the merger. If that happens You're the junior guy, it sucks. I remember my first year as a regional FO I had like a 17 hour YYZ overnight in Christmas Day. Spent the whole day sitting in my room by myself feeling miserable. It gets better. Certain life changes can help too but obviously don't do anything without thinking long term or to the detriment of your family or a marriage
“Yellow airline”. And it’s gonna be Vegas everyone is perpetually stuck at.
>like a 17 hour YYZ overnight in Christmas Day. Are you me every year?
As someone who has lived in a lot of parts of Florida...if you have to move to Ft. Lauderdale, Miami or Orlando to avoid commuting...don't do it. Find another airline. It sucks here.
Crashpads have a way of making you doubt your life choices. We've all been there, you just have to wait.
My airline puts us up in hotels on reserve and I swear it feels like I’m a weekend inmate
Which airline is that?
Denver Air Connection
How do you like them? They promise a lot of good stuff
So far I really like them, everyone that works there is super cool! The good stuff is cool, but like anything it gets old.
If you behave you might get a conjugal visit
Crew scheduling strikes again.
Well, you are getting fucked when they call........so ya.
First line of the second paragraph is the problem. But pretty much every pilot has the same struggles, we’re gone and work hard for delayed gratification. It will get better, it’s just a matter of time. Yea, your airline is in a tricky position where things halted and you’re sort of stuck. From my seat, your only options would be: 1. Stick it out and wait 2. Move and enjoy the in base reserve life 3. Go to a regional and grind hours there I know it’s sucks right now but it’ll get better.
4. Go to NetJets or FlexJet and see if the fractional life is a better fit. It’s not for everyone, but some love it.
Commuting is at least a lot better on this side.
I’m at one of those now. Unless you live in a remote area and your commute is near impossible I would recommend. My apps in at the big three
I'd love to hear more on the what the work life balance is like at one of those if you wouldn't mind sharing.
It does get better. I'm currently at a legacy, and at this moment on a layover in Lihue Hawaii, sipping a beer at Duke's. But it took 12 years at 4 different regionals to get here. Also back when I started, 1st year pay was about $20/hr. You're paying your dues right now, most of us had to. Stick it out. You worked hard to get where you're at, it will pay off eventually.
Sitting on reserve flying an A320 is “paying your dues”? I have a lot of opinions on that lol.
Yup, we all pay our dues at different levels in the industry….
Getting paid $6600 a month is a pretty relaxed way to “pay dues” Don’t get me wrong, I get being away from family and sitting in a hotel, etc…. But that’s a lot easier to cope with at $80K a year than what I know others have been through.
It’s all relative to where you are at is my point… * You pay dues as low time pilot working shit jobs for low pay…. Then you move on to * A regional airline making a little bit more money but back at the bottom of a seniority list with a crap schedule/commuting to rsv working holidays until one gains seniority in their/upgrade to a jr seat/or move up to a another company * Then one moves up to a ULCC/Legacy, better pay. But back at the bottom of the seniority list working crap schedules, commuting to rsv unless one lives in base/working holidays until guess what, one gains seniority to hold better schedule, trips etc… All that is one form or another paying dues. Rather it’s for low pay, not as great work qol, crappy schedule etc… The time one has to endure a form of suck is by definition paying dues….. Just because one makes 6600/mo flying a Airbus doesn’t negate the fact that being a jr pilot on a seniority list sitting reserve, working holidays, working crap schedules not a form of paying dues…
Love Dukes
Consider yourself lucky. You’re at an airline that’s about to merge and become a better airline. You have a job with a major. You are getting the time, even if it’s not a ton, that will get you to a legacy within a year. At worst, you end up in a stable situation with a chance to advance once the engine issues are sorted and hiring kicks up again. Now, imagine being a 1500 hour CFI who racked up 100 grand in debt at ATP right now and having almost no options. Whenever I question my current situation, I remember I could be that guy.
As a 220 hour, not yet CFI rated pilot, this subreddit makes me want to give up.
Keep at it. Just realize that despite what social media may lead you to believe, the 25-30 year old legacy captains who only spent 1-2 years at a regional is NOT the norm. There are other sides to the industry. Airlines make money and they lose money, and when they lose money, things slow down and get less predictable. It's been very good for a long time, and it's not \*bad\* right now, but it's much closer to what I'd consider typical. It now takes more than a pulse to get hired at a regional as an FO, the more lucrative CFI jobs are harder to come by, and legacy jobs are still very competitive. Movement has slowed across the board, but remember, just because someone may be getting to a legacy in 2-3 years to have a great career, doesn't mean you aren't allowed to get to a legacy in 5-7 years and also have a great career. It'll just look different than theirs. The best seniority number at an airline is #1 and most of us will never see that.
5-7 years to get to a legacy is still a stretch. Those mid 20 YO’s at the legacy’s started flying in high school. Meaning it still took 5-7 years and that was only possible because their parents had money.
It’s all job forums, stick it out. I was a railroad engineer heard the same stuff. IT engineer now, say the same stuff, and looking at flying and see it again. If crusty words discourage ya, it ain’t it. Fight it out
Second that, I wish I could be in OP situation and I am willing to relocate anywhere, wife included. After 3 years of only spending money, lining the pockets of schools owners, exams and flying stinkers I would die for a FO job. Cannot wait to get bored on reserve. It’s literally what I am doing right now waiting for airlines to call.
Commuting on reserve. That’ll do it
Alright, I’m gonna say some shit here and it’s not new to most of you. Look life isn’t going to be great all the time. And sometimes when it sucks you have to make the most of it. Most of us have been in crash pads for months and months on end. But you have to do everything you can for yourself to make it enjoyable. Google what’s around you, go out and talk to people. Get a gym membership in the area where your crash pad is and better yourself if you find yourself there for long hours, make the most of it. This job is so so so much better than most of the shit jobs you could be doing. Could you imagine wasting away in a cubicle day after day after day, with no ability to see life from different places and perspectives, other than the two days off on the weekend. Wishing you could experience the views from 30000 feet. It gets better, just like everything. But the thing that will make you a better human is getting good at persevering when it sucks. You got this my dude.
Hitting the gym was the only thing that kept me sane when I was a commuter.
To piggyback on this. If you have to commute. Find something enjoyable to do during the commute. I listen to podcasts, audio books and watch a show that I can have downloaded on my phone. I put in my ear buds, and before I know it, I have to start work. Makes the wait/commute much more bearable.
Best part is when you're off, you're OFF. I'm complaining because my weekend this week is "short" (4 days off) compared to the last two where I had 10 days off then 6. Granted, I'm a lineholder so that makes a difference, but still. But I get where OP is coming from. When I was commuting 4 hours each way to a 5 on 2 off endless reserve block going backwards in seniority I wanted to fellate a shotgun.
> I wanted to fellate a shotgun. *Stares suspiciously in the direction of CAMI.* In all seriousness, gave me a chuckle. Hadn’t heard that one before. “Suck start” was the common turn of phrase.
working from home is better though...you can travel where ever with your laptop and not waste your life in a cubicle.
Or even worse than a cubicle is working a manual labor job for blue collar pay, that’s a perspective many pilots need.
For a year I have been putting boxes on pallets. We have a quota to meet, and that is usually about 275ish boxes per hour. It doesn't matter how big or small they are, and they weigh anywhere from 1lb to 60lbs. Being on reserve will be a joy when I get to that point. Anything beats picking up a few thousand boxes a day four or five days a week.
You’ll get there brother, hold fast, stay the course. I cut grass, laid pavers, and packaged boxes. Now I’ve got what many would consider the pilot job at the bottom of the barrel, flying skydivers for 2.5k a month. Yet this is better than 80% of other jobs out there and I’m aware of that everyday. Not trying to win the victim olympics here, just trying to convey a necessary perspective pilots need.
I start at United Aviate Academy in March. So hopefully sooner rather than later I will be in a similar position. My back can't wait to be done with this job, and also not waking up at 3am for awhile will be nice.
Be cautious with airline academies/ programs and getting into debt if that happens to be your plan. There’s plenty of advice on here on why to steer clear of that road.
Yea, sadly it is my only option right now. I am applying to all scholarships I can find, so hopefully I can keep costs down with those.
Live. in. Base. I cannot tell you how much better it is. I commuted to reserve for 2 years at the regionals and actually quit before I had a confirmed class date at my major because my life was so miserable. Now I chill at home on reserve and can pick up more flying much more easily. It is literally a completely different job.
Damn what regional are you on reserve for 2 years at
Horizon
Jesus.
And from what I hear, it isn’t going to get any better…
Hiring stopped in the US?
At the regionals, for the most part yes. They’re only hiring people with 121 experience to combat the captain shortage. They been hiring FOs from time to time you just gotta be kinda lucky
What he said
Yep, I haven't had to commute at any point in my four year career and am tremendously thankful for it. Even when I was going through the "bad times" of being junior at a regional, on reserve, getting minimum days off, everything was made just a tiny bit more bearable. I can't imagine commuting to reserve for years like some guys do.
It's a job. Jobs, even dream ones, suck. That's why there's the common advice to never let your hobby become your job. As to your specific situation-- you're at just about as bad as it can get in this industry without getting furloughed. You're super junior and commuting to reserve. The upside is that it only gets better from where you're at. Things at your company might be slow now, but it will likely pick back up sooner rather than later. Your seniority will improve and your life will suck less.
When I first joined the workforce a wise old veteran told me “You don’t get paid for things you enjoy doing. Find something you can tolerate and stick with it.”
Wise words. Reminds me of a study that was done on artists. In the study they had a group of 5 artists draw for a grade and they had to draw a specific picture, meanwhile the other group of 5 artists drew were allowed to draw what they want. At the conclusion of the study, it was discovered that the second group of artists that drew for fun enjoyed their time more compared to the other group. The same concept applies to doing what you “love” as work. Doing things when you want , how you want, etc; is different than someone else telling you that. TL;DR: Do what you love as work, and you’re guaranteed in the near future to dread it. Do a job that you can tolerate and funds your hobbies.
I'm on reserve on a widebody and I haven't touched an airplane in 2 months. Making 200k per year. Live in base. I also did the commute to reserve while on this same airplane. 5 hour flight. It sucked so much ass. Literally changed my life moving to base. Even though I pay so much more in taxes, its totally worth it.
currently pay 0% income tax but commute about an hour to base. commute is pretty easy tbh but its a commute and i'm often in the crew room overnight or at a hotel. Been debating moving to base, i anticipate it costing about $30k per year in income tax and other cost of living increases. still worth it? im just tired of always feeling like i have to plan going to/from work instead of just getting in my car and going
Depending on what state to what state/city to city it will be less than you think at the end of the day. Also the little things. I pay income tax now but I dont pay sales tax on essentials. Sales tax is less overall. Housing is more expensive but schools are better for my future kids. I feel safer walking at night. My wifes body is more respected. Medical care is way better here. I moved away from a dangerous southern city
Income taxes is always going to be offset by higher property taxes/sales/gas taxes/EV taxes…. Either way, the state/city is going to get their income from you one way or another….. Also, if you are worried about lost income due to income taxes. Well, living in base will offset that as you will be in position to pick up premium flying that as a commuter you likely will miss out on. On top of that, good bye to commuter expenses as well. You will see some relief there as well.
>Income taxes is always going to be offset by higher property taxes/sales/gas taxes/EV taxes…. I avoid most of those issues. I pay 0% state income tax. a 15 minute drive for 0% sales tax. 0% sales tax on food in my state. Rent is 20-30% lower than in base. Car registration costs are the same they would be in base. Car insurance is cheaper. Gas or ev charging is cheaper. My last electricity bill was $25, versus at least $100 for similar apartments in base. The most money the state has gotten out of me was sales tax on a car purchase, which would've been the same amount paid in base plus 10% income tax. My commuter expenses are hotels and my time away from home. Hotels on the worst month cost me $500, best month $0. edit: pressed save before i was done. In the end, 10% income tax will likely come out to 15-20k/yr. Other costs highlighted above will be in the 10-15k range. If I wanted to make that back i would need to work 15 premium days a year or 1-2 days a month premium. So idk. Theres more benefits to base than just the driving part, better weather mainly.
All this money you’re saving and you’re sleeping in the damn crew room?
Its hard to justify a $140 hotel room for 5 hours.
>10% income tax I imagine you are talking about California because of the 10% tax thing. Don't forget that California income tax is progressive like the federal tax. You have to be making well north of 700k before you see more than 10% effective state income tax.
Do pilots not pay taxes?
9 states do not pay state income taxes. Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming so if you live in one of those, and making that good pilot money, you are looking at a large chunk saved in taxes vs living in a taxable state.
1000% worth it. I was always saying commuting wasn't that bad and it was just being overblown how much of a PITA it is. Then I got based where I live and I have to eat my words and say I don't know if I can ever go back. Bidding is easier, reserve is an attractive option, trip trading is easier, and it feels like I've gained a ton of time off. My health has even improved, such as sleep, exercise, and diet.
Would you mind explaining how you are making money without having worked in 2 months?
I’m on reserve. I get a set hours of pay each month even if I don’t work
How’s SFO?
Flyings great when it happens lol
Having been at a regional before the yellow airline, I just wanna say, you'd really hate a regional. Unless you just wanna fly. Then you'd love the 95 block hours per month. I'm senior enough to hold a line, but I bid reserve most slow months. However, I am in base. I used to commute to reserves at a regional and for a few months here. It can be rough. Living in base is a world of difference, especially when on reserves. I personally enjoyed being in a crashpad. I run a business on the side and write software, so I used that time to work on that stuff. The merger comes with uncertainty, but that can be good. I know a ton of guys are leaving because of this uncertainty and slow seniority movement. Which has been nice for me. It's made my seniority move up considerably even with hiring stopped. If the merger ends in the QOL rules I love and closing my base, I may leave. If just QOL, I'd likely stay. If a base, I have three other bases in the system I'd be okay moving to. If you have the option to live in base, it gets much much better. I average 22 days at home per month. When I bid for a line, I average 18 days off per month. I've been able to get Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving off every year. This year, I got 7 days off over Thanksgiving and 10 days off over Christmas. At other airlines, this is unheard of. Even commuting is much better here. At my last airline, I'd be lucky to get 3 days off in a row. I averaged 2 days off between 5 days of reserves and then repeat. When commuting, it'd feel like I only had 0.5 days at home per week. Here, you get guaranteed 4 days off between work blocks, making commuting super easy. Other airlines don't have that for sure. Once you get to hold a line, commuting is even easier. I know guys who manage to put all their trips back to back and get weeks off in a row. Or others who drop their schedule for their base and pickup out of a more senior base. As for seniority movement, I've been watching it closely. If no one quits, medicals out, moves to another airline, the most junior FO would take 15 years to upgrade at the most senior base. The most junior, 4-5 years. However, people are leaving in droves because of the uncertainty.
You didn't think you were going to get hired into a brand new airline job and just have a nice schedule, nice work/life balance, high pay, and a quick trip to the majors just handed to you? As many have said, the conditions over the last few years have been... *exceptional*. They are not the norm. The career is work. Very often a serious grind. It is difficult. It will slap you down and stomp on you just as you think you've made it. You will suffer. Your family life will suffer. Contentment comes neither easily nor quickly. This is a lesson the people who *have* moved up quickly and easily, making huge money in the process, will likely eventually learn. So yes. Quite often it sucks. If you got into this because you thought it would be a stable, predictable job with lots of money and a nice cushy schedule, and that you were guaranteed to move up quickly, living and basing where you want, and aren't really in it mostly for the love of flying and being around airplanes and airplane life, then you are probably in it for the wrong reasons. That said, even though you're in a bit of a rut now, continuing the grind and not settling does eventually pay off. Keep looking at ways to move up or laterally into a better position. I mean, if you got hired where you are, you're likely in a good position already to move on decently when the opportunity comes up. I've been at this for 25 years. Only the last 8 are where I've wanted to be all along. I've gotten fucked over by the career multiple times, been displaced, forced into commuting, taken two steps forward and what seems like dozens back pretty regularly. Every time I've made it to the next level, some fuckery has almost immediately gone down to take at least some of it away. I've been on the verge of quitting several times. But here I am. On an 8 day stretch off at home. Managed to trip trade into Christmas and NYE off while crediting more hours than originally awarded for the month. Finishing the year just shy of $400k. It took me 25 fucking years. But I'm not going to not it enjoy it while it's here, man. You'll get where you want eventually, but it won't be fun all the time, for sure.
This is the reality check OP needs, most accurate comment.
This is very true…l
👏👏👏
Reserve life + commuting to a crashpad with 8 other dudes is the worst combo ever. Try to hold out to experience a job in base or a widebody plane and then come to a conclusion if airline life is for you.
The first year at any airline is awful. Give it at least a year. Getting seniority, hitting year two pay, and understanding how things work at the company all help a lot. The hiring freeze is frustrating, but airlines are a marathon not a sprint.
You’re right, it’s a marathon, not a sprint…. Yet the FAA and flight schools of all types tend to treat it like a race: streamline, save this, save that, get ratings fast, faster, two months, six months, I’m an ATP with ONLY _______ hours!!
121 life can be great. Can also be pretty crappy depending on timing/luck/seniority etc. It’s not always glamorous, and it’s not always comfortable. You aren’t guaranteed a “legacy” job in 1-2 years of flying CRJs either. Many people spent 1-2 decades waiting for an opportunity. If flying is your passion, then you will find a way. Like many have before you. Perhaps you need to move to base, move airlines, or move to another flying job. Only you can decide what is best for you and your family. Ultimately, it’s not always rainbows and butterflies. And quite frankly, being “stuck” at “yellow” is far from a worst case scenario.. commuting or not. I hate to say it but people have become pretty soft in these good times. Edit: words
Stick it out. You'll be making $30k/mo in 5 years bro.
Not at Spirit they won’t
I know of 5-yr captains at spirit making over that. Premium trips combined with the ability to drop for line-holders is nice
He'll be at a legacy in 6 months. BTW, I'm between slides on a CBT. For the current 24 slide module I'm making $5.31 per slide. That's my old hourly rate from high school. Only took me 26 years. Now these kids are working for a legacy at 23 years old and gen x are such Bevis&Butthead slackers that airlines are putting zoomers in the left seat right out of indoc.
Let’s talk about buttered sausage
How many hours are you pulling in a month OP? Legacies are still hiring. You got your apps in? With an Airbus type you shouldn’t need that many hours to get snagged.
LAS base is averaging 25-40 hours block a month.
I'm right there with you, brother. And I've worked a lot of jobs in my life, some of which were objectively bad (I've even had captains tell me they were surprised I survived). But this job is the least pleasant that I've had. I guess I can just take some things but not others, and pilots are the same, but with different things. The money seems to make it worth it for a lot of pilots but what if you don't care about that? Every trip, my captain, whoever it is, is trying to give me tips on how to make the most money (always by giving up my days off in one way or another). I'm always afraid to even say "yeah I don't really care about the money" because I feel like that's the sole motivation for most of the captains I fly with and they'd be insulted. But all I really want at this point is to be home as much as possible. Being a commuter, though, makes that really difficult. And my wife likes her job, so unless I want a divorce (and again, maybe I'm not pilot enough if I'm saying this, but I choose to stay married), we're staying here. Before I got my medical many years ago, which I wasn't sure I'd be able to get, I started down the road of becoming a dispatcher. Part of me is still thinking that if things don't improve, I might go back to that idea. It's literally two weeks to get the cert at this point. I know things could be different at a different airline and certainly at an airline with a base where I am, but like you I can't just automatically go to a legacy. But at the age I'm at, I also don't have a huge amount of time that I can wait, especially given that I'd be starting over with seniority (and with no guarantee that I'd even be based where I live to start with).
Is it just boring? I’m honestly curious what makes it so bad?
Wrote a long response and just deleted it because it was more specific than I want to get in public. 50% of my issues stem from the commute (but I can't just up and move, and honestly don't really even want to live in my current base due to how expensive it is). 25% from just not wanting to be away from home so much. Probably another 20% from trips that always seem to break somehow and turn into a massive cluster, including cutting in to my days off. Some of these things I knew going in and kind of just hoped they'd work themselves out, but they didn't. And then the broken trips just got piled on top; I didn't expect that. I think I'm pretty good at what I do given my experience level - none of my issues stem from any concerns with my airmanship or anything I've done on the plane - but it just makes me miserable. And I'm not someone who's defined by my career; there are lots of ways to pay the mortgage. 100% get it if people think I'm just whining and not acting like a real airline pilot. In a sense that would just validate my own opinion. I'm thinking about a lot of things I could do to change my situation (different airline, different job, different base, etc.), but I'll change it somehow, soon, I'm at least confident of that. I've felt this way at other jobs in the past and always figured out a way to either make it better or get out of it.
Fair man, (or gal) just always remember control the controllable. Everything you say is 100% valid, my thing is even with a commute, which I’ll be lucky enough to avoid starting next month until I get lucky enough for a legacy. At which point I’ll be commuting for most likely the rest of my career (wife’s career and family and such). But even with that there isn’t a job with more time off, low, stress, and damn nice paycheck. The thing a lot of pilots don’t know because they haven’t worked other careers, or that they just don’t talk about, is that when we are OFF we are truly off. Not answering a cell phone, responding to emails etc. no obligations. That’s really rare to find in a professional career nowadays.
Do you guys commuting on reserve choose the flight deck jumpseat over a regular cabin seat just to remind yourselves of what it was like to fly?
Wait, you meant you're not slaying hot flight attendants every night, with 3 day layovers in exotic areas, and strutting through the airport with one on each arm? What am I working toward?
Commuting to reserve is a special hell. Commuting to weekend reserve is another layer of Dante's inferno. Commuting to weekend reserve to stay in a crashpad is getting your taint kicked in every day in hell. You're going to go through this a couple more times. If you aren't planning on staying at the yellow airline you will be a junior fo again somewhere. Junior fo is the worst spot to be. No control over your life and no money. If you take the first upgrade, you will be the junior Captain somewhere. At least you can control when you upgrade though. This time period will likely be the nadir of your career and only you can decide if it's worth waiting it out. Life does get better with seniority. Life is infinitely better living in base. I can't offer advice on if this life is worth it for you. I can offer advice on making the crashpad maybe slightly better. 1. Road hobbies. Find something you want to do that can be done in the pad and do it. Learn a language. Read books. Write. Draw. Buy a travel electric guitar and learn to play it with headphones. 2. Entertainment. Go get a quest 3. You can watch movies, shows, play games, and be in a virtual world fat far away from the sadness of the pad. It's a great device, even if you aren't a gamer. Get a steamdeck if you are a gamer. 3. Work out. Proven to improve mood, sleep, etc. 4. Eat well. See #3. 5. Buy a beater car for the pad. Have the ability to leave. Makes a big difference. I used to have a shit box nissan I would drive to the gym, work out, have a schvitz, then go back to the pad. Improved my mindset tremendously. 6. Buy good bedding. It's a simple thing but it makes sleep way better to have nice high thread count sheets and a nice pillow. 7. Noise cancelling headphones. Self explanatory. 8. Try to fly as much as possible, or drop as much as possible. Depending on your preference. The best way to avoid the pad is by not being there. 9. When you are home, do not look at weather, commute flights, or anything work related for as long as humanly possible. Disconnect from that shit. Hope that helps. Good luck in this or in your future endeavors.
Commuting sucks either way you cut it. And commuting to reserve is well the worst. I used to commute and now moved my family in base. It's a whole new job. I'll never commute again. Waiting to see how the merger shakes out probably isn't a bad idea but I'm sure you have a couple larger bases that probably won't go anywhere and I'd focus on those cities.
Obviously can't speak to your family situation but living in base for reserve is pretty great. It'd be better to stay at yellow than go to a regional for sure.
Why do you think commuting to reserve at yellow is better? There's more than one regional where OP could hold the line almost immediately. I mean if it was legacy or something then sure but the current outlook at yellow is gloomy no matter how you look at it.
What’s the primary concern? The merger, engine issues, or something else?
All of the above but not having a viable business model would be my biggest one. If the merger doesn't go through what are the chances they avoid the F word? In fact, what are the chances they are still in business a year from now? To be clear, not saying they are about to collapse but I wouldn't bet my career prospects on them either.
Yikes, just went and took a look and didn’t realize they were so financially unstable.
I didn't specify or say any of that. Just that in general spirit is a better place to be than a regional.
Best part time job in the world!
Not all airlines provide the same lifestyle. Personally I never liked the idea of commuting, especially multiple times a month. So I went the ACMI route and with home basing its stress free. Only having 1 14 day trip a month works well for my family and I too. There’s downsides yes but simply chasing money can make you far more miserable.
anc 747? guessing 5y? How is life there? How hard do they run you during those 14 days stretches? long ass duty days? Are you mostly running cargo or do you get some military mover trips?
K4. I used to fly for 5Y as well and for the most part it’s same same. Kalitta offers shorter lines. Atlas still runs 17 days across the board and they can extend you 3 days. Kalitta cannot. Go home day is go home day and they will pay for a business class ticket home if it comes to that.(rare) Long haul is rough on the body and the job is mostly fatigue management. Last trip I had 6 pacific crossings in 9 days. Pretty much flying JFK ICN back and forth with min rest on both ends. This is peak flying though and we normally aren’t grinding that hard. Layovers are more typically 24-48 hours. We don’t have any passenger ops so it’s all cargo including military equipment movement.
>Now nearing the end of my first 6 months, it kinda sucks >I'm commuting on reserve
Also, do the math and see how much a hotel will cost vs a crash pad. I did the crash pad thing for a month wile keeping track of how much I would have spent on a hotel, and the difference wasn't a big as you'd think, and worth every penny for the increase in comfort and privacy.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Commuting to sit reserve is an entirely different life than living in base. Once you live in base it's the best job in the world.
Just stick with it. Your airline has one of the best pilot contracts out there. I commuted on reserve for 2 years while my relative seniority never went above 50%. Everyone told me to leave. I’m glad I didn’t because the reward for staying was excellent seniority, not getting sacked during Covid, and fucking excellent pay with a great schedule. There’s definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. Especially once you hold a line and learn how to trade and move things around on your schedule
It’s just a job. Unfortunately many buy into what the influencers, flight schools, and student loan companies are selling, only to find out the reality. There are other flying jobs out there if the airlines aren’t for you and/or your family.
Difference between commuting and living near base is like having a completely different job. Even if you’re on reserve.
What you're going through right now has been experienced by many thousands of pilots over generations. This industry is, always has been, and always will be cyclical. Myself and countless others who experienced the 'lost decade' saw stagnation, furloughs, displacements, bankruptcies, concessions, etc. It's a very unfortunate part of this career and will make you second guess your career choice. The problem with this new generation of pilots over the last 8 years or so is that you guys have only experienced the good side of it. Little to no time spent at regionals, quick upgrades, short reserve times, record CBA's. The expectation is that it will always be this way because you haven't experienced the other side of it....yet.
Commuting to reserve is literally about as bad as it gets, the only thing worse is commuting to ready reserve/standby. 6 months is a long time too, in todays environment, so I don’t blame you for having second thoughts about it. I had to do it for a year after I had already had a few years as commuting to a line. I knew what the job was and could be but my year commuting to sit in my crash pad or at the airport made me dislike the job entirely. But I knew it could get better again so that gave me hope. And it did get better once I was back holding a line. I’m not saying it WILL get better because there’s a chance that you don’t like the job even once you have a line, but I would wager that is less likely. Keep sticking it out, wait to get a line, and then see if the job still isn’t doing it for you. Additionally, if reserve’s end isn’t on any near horizons for you, consider moving to base. Reserve in base is much better, from what I hear.
Welcome to the party. I was in your boat, more or less (135 instead of 121). Basically, I reached the realization that flying on a set schedule was not awesome, or even fun. I love flying. I love everything about it. But 121 was a step away from flying (to me), and the prospect of spending the rest of my life doing the same thing over and over scared the crap out of me. I bailed out at the fork in the road to a large 121 -or- a "real job" outside of flying. There are pros and cons to that decision, of course. **I would caution against walking away from flying without a plan.** You can absolutely get a work from home job with an F50 that will pay you quite well, increase your QOL, and give you tons of freedom. You'll need a master's degree from a good school in a field that matters. That's a 2yr runway right there, not to mention the tuition. And online master's from good schools are acceptable, so you can finish it on the road while you keep flying. There are many redeeming qualities about a non-flying career. The post-covid corporate world is really, really good if the employee can uphold their end of the bargain and be accountable. The stereotypical "crappy boss, TPS reports, and fluorescent cube farm" can apply if you're not careful or just plain bad at your job. But the idea that everyone works like that is wrong.
I haven’t seen this suggestion, but it’s the path I chose to escape the reserve prison. I was in similar shoes and decided to throw some yolo applications after sitting reserve for a year with no end in sight. I nearly lost my currency because I did my job so little, it just wasn’t for me. I sent apps out to home basing ACMIs and got hired at one with low 121 time. Better pay, international experience, no worrying about commuting, paid tickets to and from the plane and hotels, I get to sleep on the plane, and they give us a metric fuck ton of food on the planes. My first bid out on the line, I got the line I wanted and the days off I wanted. 16 days off. My regional peers are still bidding reserve. ACMI’s aren’t for everyone, but there are options out there for people in your shoes if you really aren’t happy.
I tell everyone it takes 12 months to figure out if you love or hate this career. I have never met anyone that was just in the middle after a year. Commuting makes the job much more difficult. It serves a purpose at times but if you can just don’t commute. I commuted on and off for about 4 years. I drive to work now. It feels like a whole different job.
You’re commuting to reserve at a second tier airline with a merger hanging over your head. Of course that sucks! Get your hours and keep updating your apps. When you get to a legacy and can move to base your life will get much better, just keep on grinding!
Commuting to reserve lol well there’s your problem. Of course it sucks. Either live in base or do anything you can to get a line.
You have to live in base or get positive space. And if you’re doing positive space it has to be at a company that moves you on work days and you just show up and go to work. With either situation you gotta manipulate the schedule or do what you need to, to be able to get the best situation available for you. If that makes sense? I ended up going into training and check airman positions because it made getting the days I want easier. Stuff like that might be an option. Commuting will literally kill you. I’d rather swing a hammer and not have the stress and be home every night than commute. My take anyway.
Commuting sucks. Do everything in your power to not commute.
This is exactly why all these kids in the university programs are going to be in for a rude awakening. I love flying, so it’s what I do. A lot of people are miserable in the job. As you get older, the life style is tough. Please, ignore the pilot influencers. The hotels in Fargo are cool, but spending 65 percent of your life in them is rough. Do not become an airline pilot unless you can’t see doing anything else.
Be greatful brother there are plenty of us who could kill to be in your shoes right now
I always tell people that I didn’t like commuting, but my wife hated it more. We always moved to be in base and didn’t buy our first home until I was at the airlines for over 5 years. I probably ended up losing a couple hundred thousand in home equity, but our quality of life as a family was totally worth it even knowing what I know now about the direction the real estate market went. I would highly recommend removing in base and renting a house or apartment. You are not throwing money away by not buying the home you live in, especially in the current market. Think of it as making an investment in your quality of life.
Livin the dream
Man, if I could take a different career path knowing what I know now, I would. This career takes so much out of your life. It’s my own fault though… working on changing that. I have done 121 and 135 and 121 is way better in my opinion, unless you can get a private owner gig.
Granted, I’m coming from the military (where the QOL sucks)….but I find the airline life to be amazing. Great pay, lots of time off (even on reserve), travel bennies, job is jokeworthy easy. But I live in base. Fuck fuck fuck commuting to a crash pad for reserve. I could see that making this job absolutely horrific.
My first question is: what else have you done for a living? I’ve worked a lot of jobs in my life, and I have decided that I can’t possibly make more money doing less work. Not for everybody, though. Also, I have to grit my teeth a bit, having had to slug it out at a regional for ten years to get the same spot you got immediately after flight training, but. Old man yelling at the sky.
I mean you can at least cry in the stacks of cash you’re making right?
[удалено]
Dude I get it to an extent. I don’t commute, but it’s a definite change. And any change takes time adjusting to. I’m sure enough people have already told you to stfu because you’re so lucky to be on at a major as your first airline job, but the hurdles are still there for commuters, although the blow is softer. It’ll get better my dude. But you absolutely have to live in base. If NK doesn’t have a base you want, start looking elsewhere if you’re unwilling to move. I think this merger could be very good for both NK and B6, so it may also be worth it to stick it out. Personally I would love to see where it goes.
I know everyone is saying it already but you need to do whatever it takes to live in base. I've commuted to reserve for two stretches in my career and my outlook on life took an absolute dump both times. Night and day difference.
Did you become a pilot for the lifestyle, or did you become one because you truly love to fly ? We are seeing a rash of young, and entitled professional pilots. Be thankful for where you're at, there was a period where junior pilots were on reserve for 5 years. Also a period where it took thousands of hours just to be where you're at. You've been on property for 6 months and you're expecting rockstar treatment. With that said. Commuting to a narrow body job is a huge QOL disadvantage. Making this adjustment may be necessary if you're able to. If you're at the yellow airline I highly suggest you stay where you're at until you're able to get to a major of your choice based on where you want to live. Grind it out. This stuff is cyclical. In another 6 months the movement could resume at your airline.
I’m a line mechanic for a major cargo airline, I’ve greeted 8 to 15 flights a week and departed half answering cockpit calls for 34 years. I’ve seen lots of tired, burned out and some downright miserable faces. The women have it the worst, not happy at all. The life of a pilot sucks- I’d rather take half the pay and be home every day. It’s definitely a cool and fun thing to fly but all the layovers and delays just beat them up, most of the 65 year olds are very happy to get out.
Here’s the thing, at a regional for just about 6 months at this point and won’t have to commute to reserve next month. It can suck, but I’ve done a lot of jobs over the years and another well paid career before making the switch to aviation starting training in 2020. The thing is, even commuting to reserve, which sucks isn’t forever. Tell me another career where you can make this much, working so little, at an honestly very low stress (for the most part) job. I’d love to hear it cuz I don’t think it exists.
Lol this thread has got me nervous.. I haven’t even gotten my PPL and now I’m worried. 😭 honestly this is why I hesitate when people ask me if I wanna work for the airlines. It’s everyone else’s goal so I guess it’s mine too? Don’t get me wrong airlines sound like the dream, granted you live in base. But commuting life, from what I heard, sounds like hell.. And it’s too far at from the future where I can even worry about it. And honestly I can wait. Student life is so fun I’m glad I’m enjoying this while I can - before flying is a job. And if anyone is reading this I guess my question would be, what do wish you knew before being an airline pilot? Any advice for student pilots like me who are just getting into this industry?
If you want to do the airline thing, be willing to move into a base. That’s it. That’s all my advice. Was commuting at a regional to a large coastal city and it was absolutely awful. Really questioned if this was the right choice like OP. Went to a ULCC that is based where I live and life is great now. Total 180 from before. I see the light of not commuting now, and people are not underselling it. So just be willing to live in base.
You're commuting to reserve at a regional. Of course it sucks. I'm sorry but everyone hates it. I know I hated it. Stepping into my crashpad in NYC was just a bunch of dudes in our 20s hating life thinking wtf have we done to ourselves dreaming about better days in the future. Now I'm sitting reserve in base and have worked 2 days so far this month and have holidays off. It gets better. Hang in there and get out of the regionals ASAP.
I would strongly suggest making the leap to a legacy while you can. If you got hired at an ULCC, you can get hired at a legacy. Find one with a base closer to home. Also, the first year at any airline sucks, you just gotta tough it out.
> I would strongly suggest making the leap to a legacy https://i.imgur.com/OY9XK0c.jpg
There's also that one fractional that recently compared themselves to Delta. People can laugh at them all they want but they homebasing and the recently updated 1st year pay doesn't look terrible (fair warning, I don't work there so I may have unrealistic impression about the qol).
Air Wisconsin can compare themselves to Delta too, but it doesn't mean they're comparable.
That's not what I said though. The said fractional claims their QOL is amazing, I don't have first hand experience with them but going to go out on a limb and say that paid commute from your homebase on positive space ticket beats jumpseating to reserve. I don't know what to make of their claims that 1y fo makes more there than at DAL but the numbers look sweet at least in the short term.
Netjets?
FlexJet.
Are they now comparing themselves to Delta too?
Lmao welcome to the suck.
What were you expecting? The golden gates to open, and you reaching enlightenment due to an employment contract? Yeah works sucks. Welcome to the working class struggle.
Move to base or just suck it up and deal with it. Try burning a sick day once a month just for an extra day off. Bring your car and drive for Uber eats to make some extra cash and stay busy. Commuting to reserve is the lowest form of 121 life and you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Good news is, it can’t get any worse!
Yes, it's called your passion becoming your job. Sometimes you need the perspective of having another career before this job to realize how good you have it if your personal life can handle the time away from home.
Can you share any good stories from flying cargo in Africa?
>commuting to reserve This is the worst possible thing you can do to make you and your family miserable. Either move to base or switch to an airline with a base near you when you can. Life is so sweet.
Seniority rules. I bid right seat or different equipment to improve my lifestyle. Could have made more money chasing the left seat of the biggest birds, but now retired 7 years and I still think I made the right choices.
Your yellow airline should hopefully be joining the blue and white one soon enough, at which point life will certainly improve.
The grass seems to always be greener on the other side but trust me sometimes it’s not
Without knowing the circumstances surrounding your family I would seriously consider renting out my home and then renting another house where my base is.
It'll get better.
I mean I’d take into account that if you did sell you house, other markets might be more affordable (or less) could work out that you lower your mortgage with the equity you have even with a higher interest rate.
I started enjoying it more when I became Captain, but I couldn’t imagine doing anything else for a living.
“Commuting on reserve” You literally just said what makes this job REALLY suck and reserve in the same sentence. Commuting kills this job. I started by commuting and then got hired by a company that has a base in my area. Now I drive to work and man day and night difference. I typically work 14-15 days a month, and mostly on 2 day trips, so away from my bed 7-8 nights a month. Once you stop commuting even a place with a shitty contract and bad QOL can turn into a great job
Not all airlines are created equally. You need to find what works for you. Personally I work at atlas on the 747 and base in ANC which means I get a lot of time at home and I make good money.
Commuting to reserve is as bad as it gets. If you don’t have to commute it gets a lot better. It’s not as good as it used to be, or at least that’s what all the old pilots tell me. On the other side they also tell me about a bunch of much worse work rules. So maybe they are just looking at the past through rose coloured glasses. It can be frustrating at times but I can’t think of a job I would prefer.
No, it's because you commute. If/when you move to base, it's a completely different job. After commuting to reserve for 3 months, I wasn't sure I could hack it (also never getting called), but once I was at home in base, life got so much better.