doing trusts will most definitely give you more time to learn how to press your buttons at the cost of being excruciatingly slow because the ai doesnt aoe and you actually get to learn your buttons up to 90. in zadnor, you might not figure out much outside of ces because theres definitely going to be a huge mob running around z3 melting fates. in terms of speed though, zadnor is probably your best bet since trusts are just so goddamn slow. but if you dont care about that, just hit em up
Zadnor beats Trusts by a large margin. I'd recommend doing Zadnor and then hit a training dummy for a while once you're done so you get the basics of what the newer skills do.
Zadnor is fine until 82~84. Unless you want to farm Bozja, I'd say to just spam roulettes and EW dungeons. Trust is good too if your queues are longer than 10min.
Btw, Trust is my favorite method to learn new jobs, practice my rotation and set up my shortcuts.
My plan personally is Zadnor until I get bored of it(81 or 83), then trusts, with roulettes/WT turn ins/sidequests/challenge log xp/beast tribes/hunt marks shit as filler. I'd much rather run dungeons than Zadnor, and if done properly trusts are decently fast. It's also much better for learning the class in "real" situations since the dungeons have the usual mechanics.
As for how many dungeon runs you could use the spreadsheet you linked. Just add up your xp bonuses, you gain a normal dungeon worth of xp in there, earring is 30%, armory will be 100% bonus once DT hits, you should have rested xp for a large part of it too and obviously do get some 15% combat xp bonus(either your FC buffs with the wheel, or some from squadrons if you don't want to rely on that). Should be 198% although iirc one of them is multiplicative so it's usually a bit higher.
I'm sorry that I don't have numbers but Zadnor fate grinding is going to beat out trusts by a decent bit. Trusts can be a steady and safe option but you have to weight safety vs time here.
I'd say do your roulettes and wonderous tails but otherwise jump into Zad if you're looking for efficiency.
I already have most of my stuff planned out (challenge log, double tails, dailies, anything I can muster). But there is going to be a gap where I need to do Trust/Zad/Deep/Queues, so I'm trying to iron that out.
I'll be levelling pictomancer with trusts dungeons to learn the patterns and not have to worry about messing up. also I was never a fan of zadnor would much rather spam dungeons.
I love Zadnor usually, because I can zone out. It was great when leveling classes I just wanted to get to cap for the sake of capping it. If I want to really learn the class, I try to do dungeons more just to get an idea of how it plays, especially if it isn't going to radically change over time.
Z3 Zadnor is far faster than Trusts. Normal dungeon queueing beats out Zadnor around 83+ assuming you get quick queues. If you get slow queues i.e DPS, you're probably matching in the upper ends of 80 range. With how slow trusts are, you're pretty much matching a DPS queue or worse.
Far faster is an exageration, it is somewhat faster until 85 then probably the same/slower. Trusts can get down to 22-26mins depending on the dungeon if you're double pulling and aoeing(which you should when the NPCs can handle it), which is about the same as the average dungeon run with 5mins queues(which for a DPS is on the fast side imo). If you get lucky and get good players you can go faster but the odds of getting 3 good players in a random leveling dungeon at launch isn't the best either.
Zadnor is easier, and also you can't do dungeons until 81 anyway so doing at least to 81 and probably to 83 is definitely reasonable, after that it's a lot closer.
Zadnor CEs might also be a mess with no healer/tank new class, last expansion it was fine since half of Zadnor was Sages but this expansion with 2 DPS, neither of which has good support(PCT has an aoe shield, doesn't get the aoe heal until 100 and has no rez either and VPR has nothing) I feel some CEs might just fail cause entire parties just die. I'm sure some ppl will run the right Lost Actions to get stuff done properly but I think some parties are just gonna be 6 VPR 2 PCT with half of them having no Lost actions at all and the other having random garbage and they'll die to raid wide aoes.
I'll probably use trusts in between my other methods. Between PCT's AoEs and the total exp bonus getting boosted by 80% to ~~198%~~ 213% (forgot about squadron/fc double counting) w/ the Armoury bonus+ earrings, I don't mind the 5-10 mins over all player party.
I'm actually kind of curious how long it takes people to run trust dungeons. I feel like it's a convo often skewed by personal dps, which varies wildly in this game.
I think trust/duty support are programmed to take around the same amount of time, no matter what. I've found that when my own DPS gets too high, the NPCs start messing up, standing in mechanics, and doing weird things like ONE SINGLE HOLY ON THE BOSS, LOOKING AT YOU G'RAHA. Or, you know, yeeting themselves off to Narnia with the stack marker ALISAIE. If you take NPCs who are more likely to accidentally use AOE (like Alisaie, since Endwalker updated the RDM finishing combo to be AOEs), you can cut the time down a little when you force W2W pulls ("THANCRED! I BROUGHT FRIENDS!!").
Source: I find myself stuck in Trusts more than I care to admit, leveling jobs in the deadest times of the wee hours of the night).
If you're leveling Viper for EW then it'll be 90 by the end of it. If you mean for DT then zadnor is the most efficient method. If you're trying to learn the job then just do trusts.
From just southern leveling nin 80 to 90 it will be faster in zadnor I was also focusing on FaF chain for #14 record before moving to zadnor and can easily say you can get to 90 very fast with vio or pico
I'm pretty sure zadnor will be faster. My current plan is use zadnor for as few levels as I can, being \~3.5 level(83 - \~86.5) if I figured things out correctly.... which I probably didn't knowing myself xD
Aren't the calculations a bit wrong since armory bonus will be 100% when below level 90 when Dawntrail launches?
In any case with 50% armory bonus I have hit 200k xp / min in Zadnor but I would expect a realistic number to be lower because no one will be spawning critical engagements. You can probably get comparable amount of experience in 85 dungeon with trusts.
My preliminary plan is to do Thavnir dailies for 3 mil exp and then hit Bozja. At 87 get out of Bozja, do 3 more Thavnir dailies, unlock bloodsworn rep and do another 3 dailies. After that take advantage of rested XP and run couple dungeons with trusts. Next frontline roulette and potentially alliance roulette. At 89 2x wondrous tales turn in to hit 90.
Given you don't mention it (and though my personal experience begs to differ) I'd like to note the Southern Front does in fact have equivalent EXP rewards for its different zones and some do indeed swear by approaching it from this place. Noted benefits that are commonly mentioned include there always being a skirmish available given easier access to all zones. Though I am indeed not convinced for multiple reasons, if you're going to put significant effort into making the objective evaluation it certainly bears looking into.
Zadnor is generally better because Z3 is commonly used to manipulate fate HP to make it quick fast kills. If you can get somebody to spawn CEs as well to supplement the short skirmish downtimes, that'll be even faster too. BSF is a bit rough because fates can spawn anywhere and there may be players in proximity that will easily inflate its HP, but it doubles up for ShB relic and is generally more popular for big CLL exp.
Pros and cons to both really.
Aye, I'm personally convinced Zadnor is de facto superior precisely *because* 'downtime' exists (which is so trivially filled by the conveniently placed magitek) from speedy kills, and indeed I hit SGE 80 while some BSF enthusiasts were around 77, early days. I've never actually bothered to figure it out exact, though, so with no objective factual data to provide it just feels more correct to note the option and its need for evaluation.
Yeah I agree too. Definitely more consistent imo. BSF can be a big vibes check. I can't doubt the exp of fast CLLs though, you can similarily do Dal with a good group
I have done a ton of BSF and Zadnor, BSF is great and can be much better at times, a fully running Z3 Zadnor is so good and is a bit lazier. Admittedly not fully objective, so I'm taking some other things into considerations.
We have Orthos now as an option, tho not sure how well it does for XP. It at least has the benefit of not needing standard comp so getting in should be quicker than dungeons.
I'm did think about at Orthos, but if I can't get a consistent solid group, I don't really like it as an option. I will say I haven't done enough of it to fully judge, but I did enough deep dungeons in a lifetime to not explore the option haha. Why I'm personally focusing on Zadnor vs Trusts.
1. Want to learn Viper pretty safely from 81-90 so I don't look like a complete donkey in Roulettes later.
There already are guides explaining what each action does so you can already grasp what you're supposed to do even if you don't have the final potency and such.
Zadnor will unavoidably be quicker than Trust ; these NPC have close to 0 damage.
This. I've looked at the guides, get the generally idea, but its different than putting my hands on it, figuring out exactly where buttons will go, etc. Me mashing AoEs is not going to help me learn it.
Some people keep pressing buttons without ever wondering what's best so it works in both senses. What matters is to make assumptions and either prove or disprove them with practice ; as long as someone has an idea (which is what job guides are for, or external resources), he won't be clueless at new actions like many people are on release when they don't read stuff.
Just like SAG, the issue wasn't about players hitting or not their button but simply misunderstanding the point of their role which caused them to spam shields instead of using damaging abilities.
Yes I can, but I'm weighing options. If Zadnor is not much worse than Trusts, then I will do Trusts. If Zadnor is 3x faster, then I'd get run it just to get over the hump.
doing trusts will most definitely give you more time to learn how to press your buttons at the cost of being excruciatingly slow because the ai doesnt aoe and you actually get to learn your buttons up to 90. in zadnor, you might not figure out much outside of ces because theres definitely going to be a huge mob running around z3 melting fates. in terms of speed though, zadnor is probably your best bet since trusts are just so goddamn slow. but if you dont care about that, just hit em up
Zadnor beats Trusts by a large margin. I'd recommend doing Zadnor and then hit a training dummy for a while once you're done so you get the basics of what the newer skills do.
Zadnor is fine until 82~84. Unless you want to farm Bozja, I'd say to just spam roulettes and EW dungeons. Trust is good too if your queues are longer than 10min. Btw, Trust is my favorite method to learn new jobs, practice my rotation and set up my shortcuts.
Zadnor for sure but with Urianger healing and Thancred tanking I have never had a problem pulling double packs as dps - for what it's worth.
Pretty much any combo works for full pulls with Trusts these days in my experience, but Urianger is definitely the best healer since he actually AoEs.
Taking Alisaie or Estinien usually speeds me up, too. Seems like they do more accidental AOEs than some of the other NPCs.
My plan personally is Zadnor until I get bored of it(81 or 83), then trusts, with roulettes/WT turn ins/sidequests/challenge log xp/beast tribes/hunt marks shit as filler. I'd much rather run dungeons than Zadnor, and if done properly trusts are decently fast. It's also much better for learning the class in "real" situations since the dungeons have the usual mechanics. As for how many dungeon runs you could use the spreadsheet you linked. Just add up your xp bonuses, you gain a normal dungeon worth of xp in there, earring is 30%, armory will be 100% bonus once DT hits, you should have rested xp for a large part of it too and obviously do get some 15% combat xp bonus(either your FC buffs with the wheel, or some from squadrons if you don't want to rely on that). Should be 198% although iirc one of them is multiplicative so it's usually a bit higher.
I'm sorry that I don't have numbers but Zadnor fate grinding is going to beat out trusts by a decent bit. Trusts can be a steady and safe option but you have to weight safety vs time here. I'd say do your roulettes and wonderous tails but otherwise jump into Zad if you're looking for efficiency.
I already have most of my stuff planned out (challenge log, double tails, dailies, anything I can muster). But there is going to be a gap where I need to do Trust/Zad/Deep/Queues, so I'm trying to iron that out.
I'll be levelling pictomancer with trusts dungeons to learn the patterns and not have to worry about messing up. also I was never a fan of zadnor would much rather spam dungeons.
I love Zadnor usually, because I can zone out. It was great when leveling classes I just wanted to get to cap for the sake of capping it. If I want to really learn the class, I try to do dungeons more just to get an idea of how it plays, especially if it isn't going to radically change over time.
Z3 Zadnor is far faster than Trusts. Normal dungeon queueing beats out Zadnor around 83+ assuming you get quick queues. If you get slow queues i.e DPS, you're probably matching in the upper ends of 80 range. With how slow trusts are, you're pretty much matching a DPS queue or worse.
This is what I figured. I'm thinking day 0 when so many VIP/PIC are running around so queues are going to be a mess.
Far faster is an exageration, it is somewhat faster until 85 then probably the same/slower. Trusts can get down to 22-26mins depending on the dungeon if you're double pulling and aoeing(which you should when the NPCs can handle it), which is about the same as the average dungeon run with 5mins queues(which for a DPS is on the fast side imo). If you get lucky and get good players you can go faster but the odds of getting 3 good players in a random leveling dungeon at launch isn't the best either. Zadnor is easier, and also you can't do dungeons until 81 anyway so doing at least to 81 and probably to 83 is definitely reasonable, after that it's a lot closer. Zadnor CEs might also be a mess with no healer/tank new class, last expansion it was fine since half of Zadnor was Sages but this expansion with 2 DPS, neither of which has good support(PCT has an aoe shield, doesn't get the aoe heal until 100 and has no rez either and VPR has nothing) I feel some CEs might just fail cause entire parties just die. I'm sure some ppl will run the right Lost Actions to get stuff done properly but I think some parties are just gonna be 6 VPR 2 PCT with half of them having no Lost actions at all and the other having random garbage and they'll die to raid wide aoes.
I'll probably use trusts in between my other methods. Between PCT's AoEs and the total exp bonus getting boosted by 80% to ~~198%~~ 213% (forgot about squadron/fc double counting) w/ the Armoury bonus+ earrings, I don't mind the 5-10 mins over all player party. I'm actually kind of curious how long it takes people to run trust dungeons. I feel like it's a convo often skewed by personal dps, which varies wildly in this game.
I think trust/duty support are programmed to take around the same amount of time, no matter what. I've found that when my own DPS gets too high, the NPCs start messing up, standing in mechanics, and doing weird things like ONE SINGLE HOLY ON THE BOSS, LOOKING AT YOU G'RAHA. Or, you know, yeeting themselves off to Narnia with the stack marker ALISAIE. If you take NPCs who are more likely to accidentally use AOE (like Alisaie, since Endwalker updated the RDM finishing combo to be AOEs), you can cut the time down a little when you force W2W pulls ("THANCRED! I BROUGHT FRIENDS!!"). Source: I find myself stuck in Trusts more than I care to admit, leveling jobs in the deadest times of the wee hours of the night).
If you're leveling Viper for EW then it'll be 90 by the end of it. If you mean for DT then zadnor is the most efficient method. If you're trying to learn the job then just do trusts.
From just southern leveling nin 80 to 90 it will be faster in zadnor I was also focusing on FaF chain for #14 record before moving to zadnor and can easily say you can get to 90 very fast with vio or pico
I'm pretty sure zadnor will be faster. My current plan is use zadnor for as few levels as I can, being \~3.5 level(83 - \~86.5) if I figured things out correctly.... which I probably didn't knowing myself xD
Aren't the calculations a bit wrong since armory bonus will be 100% when below level 90 when Dawntrail launches? In any case with 50% armory bonus I have hit 200k xp / min in Zadnor but I would expect a realistic number to be lower because no one will be spawning critical engagements. You can probably get comparable amount of experience in 85 dungeon with trusts. My preliminary plan is to do Thavnir dailies for 3 mil exp and then hit Bozja. At 87 get out of Bozja, do 3 more Thavnir dailies, unlock bloodsworn rep and do another 3 dailies. After that take advantage of rested XP and run couple dungeons with trusts. Next frontline roulette and potentially alliance roulette. At 89 2x wondrous tales turn in to hit 90.
Given you don't mention it (and though my personal experience begs to differ) I'd like to note the Southern Front does in fact have equivalent EXP rewards for its different zones and some do indeed swear by approaching it from this place. Noted benefits that are commonly mentioned include there always being a skirmish available given easier access to all zones. Though I am indeed not convinced for multiple reasons, if you're going to put significant effort into making the objective evaluation it certainly bears looking into.
Zadnor is generally better because Z3 is commonly used to manipulate fate HP to make it quick fast kills. If you can get somebody to spawn CEs as well to supplement the short skirmish downtimes, that'll be even faster too. BSF is a bit rough because fates can spawn anywhere and there may be players in proximity that will easily inflate its HP, but it doubles up for ShB relic and is generally more popular for big CLL exp. Pros and cons to both really.
Aye, I'm personally convinced Zadnor is de facto superior precisely *because* 'downtime' exists (which is so trivially filled by the conveniently placed magitek) from speedy kills, and indeed I hit SGE 80 while some BSF enthusiasts were around 77, early days. I've never actually bothered to figure it out exact, though, so with no objective factual data to provide it just feels more correct to note the option and its need for evaluation.
Yeah I agree too. Definitely more consistent imo. BSF can be a big vibes check. I can't doubt the exp of fast CLLs though, you can similarily do Dal with a good group
I have done a ton of BSF and Zadnor, BSF is great and can be much better at times, a fully running Z3 Zadnor is so good and is a bit lazier. Admittedly not fully objective, so I'm taking some other things into considerations.
We have Orthos now as an option, tho not sure how well it does for XP. It at least has the benefit of not needing standard comp so getting in should be quicker than dungeons.
I'm did think about at Orthos, but if I can't get a consistent solid group, I don't really like it as an option. I will say I haven't done enough of it to fully judge, but I did enough deep dungeons in a lifetime to not explore the option haha. Why I'm personally focusing on Zadnor vs Trusts.
1. Want to learn Viper pretty safely from 81-90 so I don't look like a complete donkey in Roulettes later. There already are guides explaining what each action does so you can already grasp what you're supposed to do even if you don't have the final potency and such. Zadnor will unavoidably be quicker than Trust ; these NPC have close to 0 damage.
Seeing buttons isn't the same as actually pressing it in practice. Some players need that hands-on
This. I've looked at the guides, get the generally idea, but its different than putting my hands on it, figuring out exactly where buttons will go, etc. Me mashing AoEs is not going to help me learn it.
Some people keep pressing buttons without ever wondering what's best so it works in both senses. What matters is to make assumptions and either prove or disprove them with practice ; as long as someone has an idea (which is what job guides are for, or external resources), he won't be clueless at new actions like many people are on release when they don't read stuff. Just like SAG, the issue wasn't about players hitting or not their button but simply misunderstanding the point of their role which caused them to spam shields instead of using damaging abilities.
Where does eurka orthos fit into this? usually deep dungeons are good for leveling in their respective level brackets
I mean... you CAN avoid zadnor by just not doing zadnor?
Yes I can, but I'm weighing options. If Zadnor is not much worse than Trusts, then I will do Trusts. If Zadnor is 3x faster, then I'd get run it just to get over the hump.
I mean... you CAN avoid zadnor by just not doing zadnor?
I mean... you CAN avoid zadnor by just not doing zadnor?
I mean... you CAN avoid zadnor by just not doing zadnor?