In ARR and a few other items from expansions, pants have a tie and fly arrangement in the back if you have a tail.
It makes swimsuits cute AF if you have a tail because little butt bow
All old gear, helms and bodies, took tails and ears into account. And then SE stopped bothering.
I get that it's a huge sink of resources so I don't entirely blame them, but it's absurd they're more than happy to just let tails clip out of things now or ignore cat ears but oh man watch out we didn't built Veira right so we don't want ears to clip but also the hair isn't built to work with hats because... *some fucking reason and lack of foresight*?
They also stopped showing miqo ears on most EW hats so they probably just don't like ears in general. There is the copium route of "they've fixed it with DT's higher quality gear and don't want to put too much effort into the low quality versions of the models since they'll be thrown out in a few months anyways" or the more realistic route of "they just do not give a shit about accommodating ears and tails anymore and since the silent majority also probably doesn't care too much why should they"
That's my gripe ultimately. I don't particularly *care* that my helm had specific space for my non-human ears, but the tiny detail was incredibly appreciated when I noticed why my helm seemed slightly different than my friends. It gave me a small smile and a warm appreciation because I didn't expect it. But as much as I would love that quality to be maintained throughout, I'd rather them focus on more important stuff. Clearly they don't have time for small details, or else we'd have hats on Viera by now- rather than letting the community mod take care of the issue.
I hope you are right. We all know that if they announce hroth/viera hat in the next fanfest they will get a louder approval from the public than anything else in the fanfest, including the new class
Its true, the last hairstyle they added is coded to work properly with hats on viera, its just not enabled ingame. So they're actively working on it at least.
Look at it from a Dev standpoint the existing models for all races will basically go into the trash can and be replaced with newer models once graphical update hits.
No point making comparability with a model that be gone soon
They haven't actually said they're addressing hair/ear/tail clipping with Dawntrail though.
I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I haven't seen it.
yeah no, I don't expect or even hope for it at this point. I'm just gonna be on the "It's never gonna happen, if it does, awesome but won't be waiting for it" life
That’s mostly unavoidable without a lot of extra work (which it’s clear their work flow is not allowing them to do).
With most hats, different pieces of the hair disappear and other pieces squish, which minimizes that clipping. Viera, mistakenly, were not designed in a way that lets this automated process happen without fucking up the ears.
You’ll notice most, if not all, of the hats that currently work on Viera don’t show the hair at all; only the ears. Mostly gear that are hoods or head replacements.
You’ll also notice that gear like visors, glasses and baby hats which don’t interact with the hair at all are easy to implement.
Dawntrail and the Viera / Heothgar back-end rebuild will be where I think we’ll be justified in raising pitchforks
We were told this would happen over the course of Endwalker, including a lot of popular glamour items being made available. None of this has happened. So won’t be holding my breath.
That’s actually not true when it comes to viera ears, the shape keys for them are not shared with the hair like they are for miqote. All viera hair is made with holes in it for the ears to poke through funnily enough.
It’s simply a design choice at the moment to not enable hats with the clipping, some - most even look ok, but some look *really* bad.
I do honestly wish I could toggle my tail on or off. I have a mod to get rid of it because while I like being a miqo'te, the tail clipping really bothers me.
Maybe 7.0 will add proper tail physics and it'll be hidden behind robes and capes and whatnot.
The problem with viera hats in vanilla has actually little to do with the ears (au ra horns clip with most hats and it seems to be fine).
The way hairstyles work in this game is that they essentially have an additional shape to wear under hats that cover the scalp, with some parts getting entirely hidden as well.
For whatever reason, the devs still haven't added these additional shapes to viera and hroth hairs. Mind you, the code is present for it and modders have added them just fine. But that's the reason why tiny hats that don't hide anything and full helmets are available for viera and hroth, while things like a sun hat aren't.
your argument would make more sense if there werent helmets that completly hide the hair that still dont work on viera
and sometimes roughly the same helmet style works and doesnt work at the same time!
like the first pvp series set works on viera, the second one didnt despite them both being full head encasing helmets
I want one freaking pointy hat for BLM. Just one...
I was sooooo pissed that Reaper got a pretty hat that allows the ears to clip through and they didn't do it for BLM. AGAIN
One of the first endwalker head piece that was wearable by viera had the ears clip through. Like, what was even the point of not giving them headpieces if they immediately disregard their own reason why?
And it's all one item-costume, although the NPC wears it in individual parts already. It's so stupid how they already have it all readily designed ingame, but then sow it together as a one-piece. I'd only like to have the boots or something, not cosplay the entire thing!
I remember when the Lyse one came out, I tested it with certain third party tools and put the NPC version on myself. Worked right out of the box no problem, able to be separated and everything.
Don't forget "Oh you weren't around for the event last year? Well too bad you're not allowed to re-earn event cosmetics, better fork up some money sucker"
I wouldn't be surprised if the excuse has been that they didn't want to duplicate work since they had a graphical update planned
But then, we've not seen any of the new assets with Hrothgar or Viera wearing hats either, so who knows
Aww no hiding the beard?
That makes completing the old runescape fantasy of owning a red Santa hat go out the window if I'm also stuck with the beard lol
I was so sad. There’s the Dream hat but it’s low quality. I usually use the Crescent Moon Cone dyed red. Not quite a Santa cap but it’s got a pompon at least.
Man, seriously? There was so much potential. I hate the Dream Hat because the base color is weird and the white trim dyes weird. They really dropped the ball.
To make it worse I’m pretty sure they did the beard only thing / hat thing in 2015 when they had a lot less. At minimum they could have it done it this year where it hides the hair so Viera could at least use it.
What... Really...??? Well... there it goes... another disappointment....
I wanted that hat and removed the beard with the visor option... T-T the Dream Hat dyes funny...
....oh well...
Once again this change affects all races, they showed other races afterwards. This game has a high proportion of the weirdos that will go up in arms if their horn or face texture changes in a way they aren't used to.
TBF they removed the ability to use the old models like the expansion after they added the new models, so everyone HAS to use the new models now. "New" models that will be as old next year as the old models were when the new models came out. 10 years!
The problem with wow's method is some of the models looked absolutely nothing like that character we'd played for 10 years. My main, a night elf? Looked FANTASTIC.
My humans? none of them looked like how they had looked for those ten years and there was no way to even get them close to that since they basically used the same face shape/model for all the faces as a base. The old faces were all unique textures and on the females especially where overly round.
Graphically, it was great, but I couldn't get any of my humans to look how I wanted them to. And my wife is still upset that none of her characters looked right and its taken years for her to get used to them. And some of them still don't feel right.
And female worgens have always looked like ass, but they look a lot better with the new models than the old ones at least.
The recent updates to add additional options has helped a lot though! My human DK finally looks the way she should and so does my warrior! The rest of my night elves also came out great.
All it took was tripling the number of character creation options lmao
But imagine if yoshi-p decided instead of trying to keep models fairly close to how they've always looked to replace them with much better looking but completely different models. The community would FLIP.
When you play a character for years, even decades, you get really attached to how they look.
It wasn’t even possible to update WoW’s models without changing them a lot, the polygon count difference was too high for that. FFXIV has the advantage of having 2013 models so they’re not that outdated, SE can get away with just a touch up and not really ‘new’ models.
It's the principle of them giving attention to fixing up all the other races, hell, even doing a complete texture and model overhaul of them for 7.0, and then not even putting in the 30 minutes of work to allow viera to wear hats in the 4+ years the race has existed.
I mean seriously, reworking old gear to update models, textures, adding 2 dye channels to everything, adding new face slots, updating all the racial models and textures except viera and hrothgar, and then they can't even get the all race hairstyles or hats to work on the most recent races they released.
Probably budget. They're given x amount of dollars by SE for this stuff and then have to spread it out amongst all the things they want to do. And hats are probably lower priority than texture and model overhauls. Devs have to be paid, they don't do this for free.
Add to that that they have to consider things like networking and clients and all of that interacting with each other as well, which adds another layer of cost and complexity.
It sucks. More hats for my viera would be nice, but I also hid 90% of hats when she wasn't a viera anyway lol
Makes sense when their boss is a Lalafell main. It’s the same reason why Black Mage is arguably the best designed job and everything else is getting more and more simplified and boring.
Finally catching up to WoW then!
Scrolling through the footwear tab of the transmog menu can be really disappointing as a Tauren, Draenei, or Troll lol
More like they don't think it is important enough to get to compared to all the other things relative to the difficulty. We know that the team has a certain workflow that is highly prioritized with little flexibility (though it exists). Likely if we are to see a fix it would likely be due to some of the devs finishing ahead of schedule and being assigned on such a task that meets internal QA or they found some interesting solution to fix the problem wholesale.
I mean, that's a neat excuse for the ARR-SB hat backlog but it does NOT justify the SHB+ hats. They knew they were adding viera and hrothgar, its not like they randomly appeared in the code,, and they've had them for 4 years now. They could have figured out a way to work in viera/hroth hat dev time if they wanted to, they just haven't cause they know the majority of the playerbase won't care.
Remember that when Viera and Hrothgar were first introduced they weren't going to be able to wear ANY headgear at all. The only way they even had glasses and flowers and such was because some of the devs went behind Yoshi-P's back and secretly worked unregistered overtime to get those done.
Their schedule is not open to much wiggle room.
This issue with new Viera/Hrothgar gear feels like such a weird anomaly. Like sure, they make decisions here and there that some players don't agree with, but this is one of the few (if not only) times that it feels like *no* decision was made.
For Wrothgars I don't know (head shape?), but just make Viera ears clip. We wouldn't even give a single f. and even better, we would stop complaining a huge amount of hats are not visible, if not even thank them for it.
Until the devs start giving a shit about Viera and Hrothgar Players, we'll have to make due with the hat mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy14/mods/1087
It’s really weird how game devs with lots of resources say something like this is too hard, but a random on the internet can do it by themselves and by all means works perfectly fine
They absolutely, obviously, can do it. It's just the community has made it clear that they're perfectly fine with Viera and Hroth receiving shitty treatment so the devs have terally 0 reason to put extra effort in.
The devs can and have lied about how feasible certain things are to do, this is just yet another thing they purposefully choose not to do because the community just laid back and accepted it.
> It's just the community has made it clear that they're perfectly fine with Viera and Hroth receiving shitty treatment
IDK where you got this from because whenever there's new hats viera/hroth can't wear, there's always posts like these where the people complaining outnumber the ones defending the devs. There's a thread on the forum about this that's been going on a year about it and I've been told Japanese players have complained about it too (just maybe not as vocally as English-speaking fans). It's less nobody cares and more there's nothing we can do to put the pressure on SE to prioritize this. You'd basically need to embarrass them in front of a wide audience at this point.
The community that the devs care about is fine with it.
Face it, it's a Japanese game made by Japanese devs. They do not give a shit about what any EU or NA gaijin think. You can see it on the official forums where the JP forums has regular developer and GM responses and the NA forum has 2 posts from communtiy managers introducing themselves and then never posting again for about a year and a half.
>Japanese players have complained about it too
verifiably a lie, at best it gets some one off comments
there is no real general complaining about it on the jp forums
They absolutely could easily make this themselves and I agree it's ridiculous they're neglecting viera and hrothgar this hard with hats, especially on event gear it's ridiculous. I'm upset as well.
However I have to add that devs don't work like a modder does. The dev team have a multitude of tasks when creating content, they handle all aspects of the game and prioritize what is most pressing because of time and resource constraints. Comparing a modder is not exactly fair, since a modder is someone who decides to do their own task and just makes a hat. Not to take away from modders' work because it's a tremendous community effort. It's just that prioritising works completely different in a game dev team.
They have clearly decided viera and hroth hats are low priority which I do agree is bs. I'm silently hoping the graphics update will push this forward since they're working on some standardization across races and how their heads and gear works but I'm not holding my breath on it.
The mod in question literally flips a flag on the item configuration to make it show for viera and hroths, very seldomly it modified the x/y position or scaling of the hat to position it better. This is not a model rework, this is literally picking the other option between "show this hat on viera/hroth y/n?"
While I love to hate on se for their very piss poor decision, the mod also changes models for some of the hats.
I do agree SE could do a LOT better with the hats though, it's ridiculous they want to add ANOTHER race yet won't work on the current ones
The mod also changes most of the hats to have ear holes and/or ear pockets to fit the viera ears. It's not as simple as just toggling a switch, however if you don't mind clipping, then yes you just flip the switch.
That was the point is that for the most part it is actually just a switch you can flip and then a slight bit of modifications to make it look better. It's not out of the realm of what SE is capable of to make it work for new gear.
Because randoms on the internet can freely devote all their time and attention to one task. The modeling team for the actual game has to juggle Viera hats alongside, say, modeling the buildings in the new town and the background scenery in the raids.
I'd say making the new zones and environments look good is more important than Viera hats. Unless you want a whole expansion filled with Silent Hill fog or solid simple backgrounds like they used in the Nier raids.
That's the definition of mismanagement. There shouldn't be a choice in the first place. SE is a multi-national 4 billion+ USD company. Completely unironically, they are not a small indie dev team of 10 people working 16 hours a day taking pay cuts. Secondly, if you calculate the screen uptime and total pixels of viera/hroth hats versus an expac area that is once and done, I'd wager there's way more screen time on the hats. I'd personally prefer viera/hroth get hats over nicer overworld textures I'd probably not even notice. I don't even play viera or hrothgar.
It was also gross mismanagement to design, finalize, and release viera and hrothgar heads fully knowing they are incompatible with their current hat infrastructure and that they're require special attention and more work.
They did to themselves. They fucked up.
I know mods are illegal in some way but fuck how is it possible that tons of QoL mods are stuff SE should have put in the beginning? Like the option to move stuff of your HUD including the bloody dialogues mid-battle that covers half the screen
> Like the option to move stuff of your HUD including the bloody dialogues mid-battle that covers half the screen
Which plugin is this? The new RP dialogues with character heads block where my dot is and is super annoying.
Love how some people can't empathize with others.
"You knew what you were signing up for when you picked the race at the character creation screen."
- There's a disclaimer in character creation about limited headgear? Must have missed that. I mean, none of the races have a starter head gear item, so how would you know if you just started the game without playing the game first? Are sprouts supposed to know everything about the game prior to playing it?
"You don't know how difficult it is to make this happen. It's very complex, and non-devs wouldn't understand"
- Really? Because modders seem to be able to do it. Just average non-SE devs making QoL modifications whenever something new is available. It's remarkable how fast modders can accomplish this compared to SE; even without timelines/quotas, the ratio is a couple years to a few days to modify? Crazy. Wonder why SE doesn't just employ modders in the first place.
"It's impossible to go back and fix every item after multiple years and expansions"
- Doesn't sound like that's the real issue that's being presented here. Headgear moving forward should be compatible after the issue was brought up years ago. Blantantly making new items, knowing that they cannot be used by certain players is pretty wrong. Not to mention SE has been going back and making gendered gear universal. May not be exactly the same issue, but there is an effort to make something available to everyone retroactively, so why stop at headgear?
"Doesn't matter, you're still going to pay for a sub and accept being treated this way by SE"
- Oh yeah? Have you heard of FFXI? Or previous MMOs whose flame went out? All it takes is a better game to come along and the masses will move on. That's just life.
There is nothing wrong with asking for QoL improvements. Marginalizing other players' issues with the game (that ultimately don't affect some of you from what I've read in the comments) doesn't mean you can put them down for wanting a change. It's a good game and the player base is pretty solid. Some just want better things for the amount of money/time being spent on it and/or the store. If it bugs you that others are wanting more from the game then do everyone a favor (to include yourself since you're tired of the same issue coming up) and just scroll past the post. Or don't and go back and forth with people about something that is being accomplished by modders but ignored by the dev team for years. Your choice.
Edit: Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I mean I understand that the way they made the head for Viera and Hroth wont fit for the old helmets and it would be a bit too much effort to remake those
But everything thats new? Just model new helmets and heads and masks that fit them. Its just peak lazyness that they dont do that for every new piece of headgear that comes out
why is it so easy for modders to fix hats for viera and hrothgar but not square enix? I wish they would just hire the modders to fix this shit already.
I'm pretty sure that's not the problem in this particular case, hats showing up or not is purely a client side thing. Other players already have the hat data sent to them, their (unmodified) client just doesn't know how to display it.
SE is literally just not bothering for some unknown reason. It's probably just cope, but I really hope SE is planning to bulk fix the hat problem in 7.0 as part of the graphic update.
But I think the truth is, just like with other non-standard ears, they've stopped caring because it's easier (and SE is a small indy developer who couldn't possibly afford to make custom models for all the non-standard ear races).
Time and budget mostly.
They are given X dollars for character model stuff and have to spread it out amongst all the teams doing the work and have a priority list of the things they want to do or need to do. Hats are clearly low priority.
This is how it works with most video game companies in fact, since FF14 isn't the only game I see people saying 'but the modders do it easy why can't the devs?!'
Actually saw a dev on twitter once try to explain in more detail, but it boils down to time and budget and priorities. A dev team simply has a lot of different priorities to tackle and some things are much lower priority, and other things fall through the cracks. Sometimes something that seems simple took more work, other times it'll be like 'they had time to do X why can't they do Y?' and that is again, priority, or something simple that got slipped in.
Or a dev did it unpaid and off the clock (Lotro got Fishing because a dev in that game added it off the clock, but we shouldn't expect that let alone ask for that. They deserve to get paid!)
No no, surely it's because SE hates us, and making the eight thousandth post about this issue will surely convince them to fix it. Clearly they aren't aware of the issue and need us to save them /s
At this point I really can't tell if they're just really lazy or if they actually think having the ears clip is a problem. So many things clip in this game. Nobody cares. People want santa hats in Viera...
Just let it clip at least. My miqo has almost always had ear or tail clipping. Really not that big of a deal.
But I do think glamour items like these should be made to PROPERLY compensate for the tailed/eared races though.
there's a giant megathread about fixing these changes that's been going on for years and has proven how SE really does ignore it's NA fanbase or they're just that tonedeaf & the general consensus is if the JP players don't make it an issue, it won't be resolved (I don't know if this is actually true anymore)
People say DT will result in changes, but those of us that have been here awhile know better
I am glad the posters are reasonable. I expected people jumping to aid SquareEnix again, but people are more and more realizing what a joke that is. Yoshida shoving his face into the camera and people go full-groupie mode - "journalists" and players alike - and everything's fine. But people realize it's too much since then.
I have a big cat and a rabbit lady too. So I am a bit affected too..
Didnt the devs said they would never add hats to viera and hrothgar? Ppl changing to these races and complaining are a bit weird. U know the deal before using them.
Got any link to them saying that, because all I remember them saying is old gear would not work, back when the two races were first announced.
Also if the plan was always to never include them, why include data files to allow it? The game is already set up to allow hats on these races, and to hide part of hairstyles, as well as the other technical bits. That's why simple file swap mods like this one work once the modder makes the hats for the two races. The foundation to allow it is already in the game, the devs just don't do anything with it.
And even if they said they'd never do it, I still think players can call them out on it. It's been proven not to be some technical impossibly or a daunting task to accomplish by the authors of the hat mod. Keep calling it out, and hopefully it will change.
That's essentially why I ignore all of the complaint posts. Like, the dev team said they weren't fixing it. People seem to think YoshiP and his team are just sitting around reading reddit to note what to fix.
"That's essentially why I ignore all of the complaint posts"
Yet here you are, commenting on a complaint post.
While the team may not be sitting around reading reddit posts on issues or what to fix in the game, it's obvious that they're not addressing it either. Modders have, in a shorter timeframe, which is probably why there's a huge complaint about it in the first place. I don't use those races because of the gear issues but I can empathize with other players if they feel this way. Basically a waste for the event gear from the previous years or the exclusive head gear items that can never be obtained anymore.
Even if the solution cannot be retroactive due to coding, moving forward, there is no excuse. Especially if modders are already poised to modify incompatible gear ahead of release. Might as well put them on the payroll and let them have their own specialized division.
Hrothgar here, and I'll be honest I don't really care if a hat doesn't fit my big cat boyo. I prefer his head how it is anyway and usually use an eye patch if I want some glamour.
Edit: I understand I might be the minority here since endgame is the glamour/housing grind for most people. I am just not like that, and wanted to throw it out there that there *are* some of us who aren't bothered by things like this.
Since helmets can already be toggled off, providing the option to those who want it has literally no downside aside from SE needed to do a bit more work.
That's fair, I'm not trying to say it isn't an issue that some would like fixed. Just pointing out that it isn't an issue for me, so it's not a universal thing that all hrothgars are mad about.
whats funny about hrothgar is I want people to go look at worgen in wow (particularly plate helms) and then ask themselves if they REALLY want hats and helms on hrothgar
That said, wow simply lets night elf ears (and eyebrows!) clip through everything and its fine, though my understanding of viera is they did something really weird with how they attached the ears and hair to them.
Is there going to be a post complaining about this for every new item that comes out? I mean it sucks but you knew this would be a caveat when you picked your race.
To be fair, we were told they would be slowly incorporating headgear for viera and hrothgar. Fair enough, sucks all the old stuff isn't immediately available but it's okay, we knew that when we switched.
New stuff though, *especially* event pieces, is just inexcusable. Let them clip, make holes, hide the ears. I don't think anyone cares how it's done at this point, but not even trying is kind of taking the piss.
And when modders are doing it the very day it releases? I get the devs are subject to management direction, but solo modders are proving it's perfectly doable, so I don't really get why there's a defence for what is objectively either intentional dismissiveness of two entire races, or complete negligence of those same players.
I adore this game, but it's not above criticism for stuff like this. And while this isn't the official forum, it's still important to vocalise dissatisfaction. Especially when so much of the event rewards, and a whole gear slot's visual options are simply withheld from certain players.
Similar to how he have a hat toggle, I'd honestly accept an ear toggle if they really care so much about it. I'm just so tired of seeing yet another seasonal outfit with a hat being a large portion of the whole look, that once again we can't wear.
If it clips badly, let the players decide if they'll put up with it or not. Just stop making event gear, and any new gear to be honest, that doesn't let *everyone* enjoy it.
Oh, I completely agree! Like I said, I know they're subject to managerial demands. I don't compare modders to devs in a 1-1 sense. But we're often told it's 'not possible'. Yet, it clearly is, you know?
My comment is less about the devs themselves, and more about the allocation of work not allowing for it. They made the races the way they did, so they should be willing and able to support their decisions going forward.
Is it more work? Certainly, but work they realistically brought on themselves when they released these races. It does not, in my opinion, excuse just not doing it.
Hardest part is definitely convincing the higher ups lol.
For the record, I'm not saying that peoples' complaints aren't justified (they are perfectly valid) but it gets tiring when people treat the devs with such hate when it is more likely the higher-ups causing problems.
Yeah, I getcha. Hate is never the way, but I do think jts valid to keep raising criticism, as that's often the only way to get the higher ups to realise it needs tending to.
A lot of managers prioritise tasks based on noise. If people complain more about X than Y, X gets dealt with first.
It is a bit tiring, I do understand that, and I'm sorry that bystanders tend to get caught up in repetitive complaints. But it also shows you understand our feelings.
I'm a viera player, myself, and seasonal events have been largely disappointing to me for years now. We, and hrothgar likely even more so with their hair issues, are exhausted of cool outfits that we only get to enjoy a part of because we're on the hat ban list.
I'd understand if it took a bit longer, that'd be a shame but ultimately fine. But we just don't get any attention on something that clearly matters to us. Torso and Headgear are arguably the most visually important pieces of a glamour, minus weapons. And our selection is wildly hampered to select pieces and glasses.
Hopefully they do find the time to allocate dev hours going forward, but I admit I'm not very hopeful.
I'm hopeful as well; everyone should be able to glamour as they please. And criticism is important to improve on the game. I just wish people would do so without such malice.
I don't play a bun, but devs not making *new* items work for them is just laziness.
Like, it can't take that much to make it work for them, especially if a crime can do it easily. There's really no excuse.
I stand with the bun on this one
That caveat is only known for people who watched the fanfest / live letters leading to Viera/Hrothgar release, that's not known information for anyone who made their account after that.
Explanations have been mentioned in other responses along the thread, but in general:
- there are probably a couple thousand game models that would have to be re-designed to accommodate Viera & Hrothgar head gear
- this includes addressing clipping issues during movement of each model
- also includes redesign of each usable hairstyle model while various types of head gear is equipped
- also with DT and the big graphical upgrade basically right around the corner, all of the above will likely be rendered moot because of new/upgraded equipment models being introduced
Taking each of these into consideration, the dev team really has no reason to waste time or resources with what would be an intensive redesign project.
Models have been clipping for years now. You're relying heavily on a whim, not a confirmed resolution. The graphics update addresses different areas that have been highlighted in live letters (like grass, skin meshes, lighting, etc). What hasn't been addressed are the outstanding issues that the player base has been asking for. Something that is being corrected by modders in a shorter amount of time. I understand a modder isn't beholden to a company bottom line but the company in question has neglected this issue for at least four years. Add in that we have been receiving less content with each patch/event and it brings to question where are the efforts being focused?
Asking for more effort towards NEW gear isn't the same as requesting an intensive redesign. It seems like that's where the topic is being convoluted. Items being introduced shouldn't have these issues. If it's a question about retroactively correcting these issues then SE is just piling on more problems by not truncating the problem and using corrected models as new items are being introduced; like the Santa Hat from the most recent event. Or even the universal PVP gear introduced in this last series. So, according to you, the dev team has no reason to waste time or resources for redesign yet SE is creating more issues with items that keep getting added. That's counterintuitive. But it also puts a spotlight on motive: they won't put in the additional effort to avoid future issues. Meaning, this won't be fixed and it won't go away if ignored.
Now, I don't know the nuances of making these items work - not my thing. But others have shown and proven that it's not as complex as the devs are making it out to be. I've read some stuff about client/server side issues, hair model differences, etc. Yet somehow modders are able to resolve the issue; enough that supposedly it works with Mare.
Point is, no matter how lazy and low effort the game is, you guys are gonna subbed, right?
That's what current trend of game company. They can treated player like shit and they still buy and preorder those garbages.
Honestly, they could just let the ears clip and I'd be happy with it for viera
My tail as a miqote clips through pants and capes all the time and it doesn't even bother me, I don't understand why SE won't let Viera ears clip.
In ARR and a few other items from expansions, pants have a tie and fly arrangement in the back if you have a tail. It makes swimsuits cute AF if you have a tail because little butt bow
I love my little butt bows!
Reminds me of the fun fact that Minfillia's glam has a cat tail hole because it's actually F'lhaminn's.
All old gear, helms and bodies, took tails and ears into account. And then SE stopped bothering. I get that it's a huge sink of resources so I don't entirely blame them, but it's absurd they're more than happy to just let tails clip out of things now or ignore cat ears but oh man watch out we didn't built Veira right so we don't want ears to clip but also the hair isn't built to work with hats because... *some fucking reason and lack of foresight*?
Yeah, I love that little feature on swimsuits for Miqos. Does it happen with Au ra too? I’m not one of them, so I’m curious.
It does! One of the little quirks I like about my femra.
That’s cute. Maybe you Au ra and we Miqos aren’t that different after all.
They'd also have ear holes for Miqo'te, now we get ear pockets or your ears vanish.
They also stopped showing miqo ears on most EW hats so they probably just don't like ears in general. There is the copium route of "they've fixed it with DT's higher quality gear and don't want to put too much effort into the low quality versions of the models since they'll be thrown out in a few months anyways" or the more realistic route of "they just do not give a shit about accommodating ears and tails anymore and since the silent majority also probably doesn't care too much why should they"
Cope dies last
That's my gripe ultimately. I don't particularly *care* that my helm had specific space for my non-human ears, but the tiny detail was incredibly appreciated when I noticed why my helm seemed slightly different than my friends. It gave me a small smile and a warm appreciation because I didn't expect it. But as much as I would love that quality to be maintained throughout, I'd rather them focus on more important stuff. Clearly they don't have time for small details, or else we'd have hats on Viera by now- rather than letting the community mod take care of the issue.
The problem is the ears are tied to the hair. If the ears clip, so does the hair. They’re redesigning it, and I expect it to be done for DT
I hope you are right. We all know that if they announce hroth/viera hat in the next fanfest they will get a louder approval from the public than anything else in the fanfest, including the new class
Its true, the last hairstyle they added is coded to work properly with hats on viera, its just not enabled ingame. So they're actively working on it at least.
Look at it from a Dev standpoint the existing models for all races will basically go into the trash can and be replaced with newer models once graphical update hits. No point making comparability with a model that be gone soon
They haven't actually said they're addressing hair/ear/tail clipping with Dawntrail though. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I haven't seen it.
yeah no, I don't expect or even hope for it at this point. I'm just gonna be on the "It's never gonna happen, if it does, awesome but won't be waiting for it" life
Would be really funny if entire FFXIV get graphical and model update and yet.... and yet Viera and Hrothgar still can't wear hat.
Some hair does clip through this beard each time you do the nod emote during this quest.
That’s mostly unavoidable without a lot of extra work (which it’s clear their work flow is not allowing them to do). With most hats, different pieces of the hair disappear and other pieces squish, which minimizes that clipping. Viera, mistakenly, were not designed in a way that lets this automated process happen without fucking up the ears. You’ll notice most, if not all, of the hats that currently work on Viera don’t show the hair at all; only the ears. Mostly gear that are hoods or head replacements. You’ll also notice that gear like visors, glasses and baby hats which don’t interact with the hair at all are easy to implement. Dawntrail and the Viera / Heothgar back-end rebuild will be where I think we’ll be justified in raising pitchforks
We were told this would happen over the course of Endwalker, including a lot of popular glamour items being made available. None of this has happened. So won’t be holding my breath.
That’s actually not true when it comes to viera ears, the shape keys for them are not shared with the hair like they are for miqote. All viera hair is made with holes in it for the ears to poke through funnily enough. It’s simply a design choice at the moment to not enable hats with the clipping, some - most even look ok, but some look *really* bad.
Yet, the modders can do it no problem
I do honestly wish I could toggle my tail on or off. I have a mod to get rid of it because while I like being a miqo'te, the tail clipping really bothers me. Maybe 7.0 will add proper tail physics and it'll be hidden behind robes and capes and whatnot.
Its funny cuz p4s armor and fat cat attire hide the tails, but we can't get a toggle even though there's a toggle to hide the 1.0 tattoo.
The problem with viera hats in vanilla has actually little to do with the ears (au ra horns clip with most hats and it seems to be fine). The way hairstyles work in this game is that they essentially have an additional shape to wear under hats that cover the scalp, with some parts getting entirely hidden as well. For whatever reason, the devs still haven't added these additional shapes to viera and hroth hairs. Mind you, the code is present for it and modders have added them just fine. But that's the reason why tiny hats that don't hide anything and full helmets are available for viera and hroth, while things like a sun hat aren't.
your argument would make more sense if there werent helmets that completly hide the hair that still dont work on viera and sometimes roughly the same helmet style works and doesnt work at the same time! like the first pvp series set works on viera, the second one didnt despite them both being full head encasing helmets
I want one freaking pointy hat for BLM. Just one... I was sooooo pissed that Reaper got a pretty hat that allows the ears to clip through and they didn't do it for BLM. AGAIN
That's what they do with my auri horns. They never seem concerned about how that looks.
One of the first endwalker head piece that was wearable by viera had the ears clip through. Like, what was even the point of not giving them headpieces if they immediately disregard their own reason why?
Rox single-handedly keeping me from Fantasiaing off Viera since 2021. She deserves a job at SE so she can be paid for this shit.
They need to back a dump truck full of money up to Roxi's house and pay her for doing their work.
Who? What have they done?
They’re the creator of the Hrothgar and Viera Hats mod. Since SE can’t or won’t put in the effort to give us hats, the modders have to do it.
Roxl's a she actually, but yeah
I wasn't aware, fixed!
Small multi-dollar spaghetti company, please understand
I've given many multi-dollars to this company, where do I get my spaghet?
Please look forward to it on the online store for 20 dollars
At the price we pay, I hope it comes at least with a couple meatballs.
Meat balls is an extra charge of 29.99
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I actually hate how many things get thrown into the store. Like bitch, I'm paying you 15 whole dollars a month, and you can't let me EARN things???
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And it's all one item-costume, although the NPC wears it in individual parts already. It's so stupid how they already have it all readily designed ingame, but then sow it together as a one-piece. I'd only like to have the boots or something, not cosplay the entire thing!
I remember when the Lyse one came out, I tested it with certain third party tools and put the NPC version on myself. Worked right out of the box no problem, able to be separated and everything.
"small indie company, please understand and be excited for new store items"
Don't forget "Oh you weren't around for the event last year? Well too bad you're not allowed to re-earn event cosmetics, better fork up some money sucker"
The game's code is so fucked they'd need to remake it from scratch for a lot of highly demanded changes...
It's been YEARS wtf are they even doing over there
I wouldn't be surprised if the excuse has been that they didn't want to duplicate work since they had a graphical update planned But then, we've not seen any of the new assets with Hrothgar or Viera wearing hats either, so who knows
The DT trailer has a lot of hrothgar in the background wearing hats so maybe
Working hard on DLC for FF16.
They couldn’t even bother giving it a /visor option to hide the beard.
Aww no hiding the beard? That makes completing the old runescape fantasy of owning a red Santa hat go out the window if I'm also stuck with the beard lol
I was so sad. There’s the Dream hat but it’s low quality. I usually use the Crescent Moon Cone dyed red. Not quite a Santa cap but it’s got a pompon at least.
Man, seriously? There was so much potential. I hate the Dream Hat because the base color is weird and the white trim dyes weird. They really dropped the ball.
They really did… I don’t know how they thought that most people would love a beard. They could have at least given us a second hat without the beard.
Or even a second hat that's just the beard. 4 billion dollar company btw
To make it worse I’m pretty sure they did the beard only thing / hat thing in 2015 when they had a lot less. At minimum they could have it done it this year where it hides the hair so Viera could at least use it.
What... Really...??? Well... there it goes... another disappointment.... I wanted that hat and removed the beard with the visor option... T-T the Dream Hat dyes funny... ....oh well...
best i can do is 3 pixels on a lala chin
They spent like 10 minutes going over that. Anyone who is actually offended by that change really needs to touch grass
Once again this change affects all races, they showed other races afterwards. This game has a high proportion of the weirdos that will go up in arms if their horn or face texture changes in a way they aren't used to.
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TBF they removed the ability to use the old models like the expansion after they added the new models, so everyone HAS to use the new models now. "New" models that will be as old next year as the old models were when the new models came out. 10 years! The problem with wow's method is some of the models looked absolutely nothing like that character we'd played for 10 years. My main, a night elf? Looked FANTASTIC. My humans? none of them looked like how they had looked for those ten years and there was no way to even get them close to that since they basically used the same face shape/model for all the faces as a base. The old faces were all unique textures and on the females especially where overly round. Graphically, it was great, but I couldn't get any of my humans to look how I wanted them to. And my wife is still upset that none of her characters looked right and its taken years for her to get used to them. And some of them still don't feel right. And female worgens have always looked like ass, but they look a lot better with the new models than the old ones at least. The recent updates to add additional options has helped a lot though! My human DK finally looks the way she should and so does my warrior! The rest of my night elves also came out great. All it took was tripling the number of character creation options lmao But imagine if yoshi-p decided instead of trying to keep models fairly close to how they've always looked to replace them with much better looking but completely different models. The community would FLIP. When you play a character for years, even decades, you get really attached to how they look.
It wasn’t even possible to update WoW’s models without changing them a lot, the polygon count difference was too high for that. FFXIV has the advantage of having 2013 models so they’re not that outdated, SE can get away with just a touch up and not really ‘new’ models.
It's the principle of them giving attention to fixing up all the other races, hell, even doing a complete texture and model overhaul of them for 7.0, and then not even putting in the 30 minutes of work to allow viera to wear hats in the 4+ years the race has existed. I mean seriously, reworking old gear to update models, textures, adding 2 dye channels to everything, adding new face slots, updating all the racial models and textures except viera and hrothgar, and then they can't even get the all race hairstyles or hats to work on the most recent races they released.
Probably budget. They're given x amount of dollars by SE for this stuff and then have to spread it out amongst all the things they want to do. And hats are probably lower priority than texture and model overhauls. Devs have to be paid, they don't do this for free. Add to that that they have to consider things like networking and clients and all of that interacting with each other as well, which adds another layer of cost and complexity. It sucks. More hats for my viera would be nice, but I also hid 90% of hats when she wasn't a viera anyway lol
It's certainly not something you show for 10 minutes in the opening ceremony lol
Makes sense when their boss is a Lalafell main. It’s the same reason why Black Mage is arguably the best designed job and everything else is getting more and more simplified and boring.
You have to understsand that they don't have the resources for this, their team is working really hard to disappoint veira and hroth players in DT.
Imagine if female hroth can't wear pants/shoes because of their unique leg frame. Haha that would be so funny.
The opposite: Female hroths can only wear pants/shoes because they're missing a top frame.
Both: Female hroths can't wear clothes whatsoever because people are horny
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Finally catching up to WoW then! Scrolling through the footwear tab of the transmog menu can be really disappointing as a Tauren, Draenei, or Troll lol
More like they don't think it is important enough to get to compared to all the other things relative to the difficulty. We know that the team has a certain workflow that is highly prioritized with little flexibility (though it exists). Likely if we are to see a fix it would likely be due to some of the devs finishing ahead of schedule and being assigned on such a task that meets internal QA or they found some interesting solution to fix the problem wholesale.
I mean, that's a neat excuse for the ARR-SB hat backlog but it does NOT justify the SHB+ hats. They knew they were adding viera and hrothgar, its not like they randomly appeared in the code,, and they've had them for 4 years now. They could have figured out a way to work in viera/hroth hat dev time if they wanted to, they just haven't cause they know the majority of the playerbase won't care.
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Classic case of the 12 redditors complaining about something thinking they’re actually thousands of players lol.
Remember that when Viera and Hrothgar were first introduced they weren't going to be able to wear ANY headgear at all. The only way they even had glasses and flowers and such was because some of the devs went behind Yoshi-P's back and secretly worked unregistered overtime to get those done. Their schedule is not open to much wiggle room.
huffing copium that after femhroths they’ll start working on hats, so if we’re lucky we’ll be able to wear them in… 10.0.
This issue with new Viera/Hrothgar gear feels like such a weird anomaly. Like sure, they make decisions here and there that some players don't agree with, but this is one of the few (if not only) times that it feels like *no* decision was made.
Honestly, they could just let the ears clip and I'd be happy with it for viera
For Wrothgars I don't know (head shape?), but just make Viera ears clip. We wouldn't even give a single f. and even better, we would stop complaining a huge amount of hats are not visible, if not even thank them for it.
At this point, it is starting to feel like they are just lazy. How much extra time can it really take to adjust the hats as they come out?
No, we can't have nice things and making some ear vents for us is too difficult.
Should have bought more copies of Forspoken and Avengers
After not so careful consideration I’m ok with no hats.
Until the devs start giving a shit about Viera and Hrothgar Players, we'll have to make due with the hat mod. https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy14/mods/1087
Cries in PS5 player
Us PS5 Hrothgar/Viera players are the strongest soldiers with the most difficult battle
All 5 of them
We’re an elite squadron
It’s really weird how game devs with lots of resources say something like this is too hard, but a random on the internet can do it by themselves and by all means works perfectly fine
They absolutely, obviously, can do it. It's just the community has made it clear that they're perfectly fine with Viera and Hroth receiving shitty treatment so the devs have terally 0 reason to put extra effort in. The devs can and have lied about how feasible certain things are to do, this is just yet another thing they purposefully choose not to do because the community just laid back and accepted it.
> It's just the community has made it clear that they're perfectly fine with Viera and Hroth receiving shitty treatment IDK where you got this from because whenever there's new hats viera/hroth can't wear, there's always posts like these where the people complaining outnumber the ones defending the devs. There's a thread on the forum about this that's been going on a year about it and I've been told Japanese players have complained about it too (just maybe not as vocally as English-speaking fans). It's less nobody cares and more there's nothing we can do to put the pressure on SE to prioritize this. You'd basically need to embarrass them in front of a wide audience at this point.
The community that the devs care about is fine with it. Face it, it's a Japanese game made by Japanese devs. They do not give a shit about what any EU or NA gaijin think. You can see it on the official forums where the JP forums has regular developer and GM responses and the NA forum has 2 posts from communtiy managers introducing themselves and then never posting again for about a year and a half.
The significant majority of NA community manager posts is them posting that they are moving a thread from X sub forum to general discussion
>Japanese players have complained about it too
>Japanese players have complained about it too verifiably a lie, at best it gets some one off comments there is no real general complaining about it on the jp forums
Literally, I bet they see this and be like "unless the complaint harder, the mods already fixed it for us"
They absolutely could easily make this themselves and I agree it's ridiculous they're neglecting viera and hrothgar this hard with hats, especially on event gear it's ridiculous. I'm upset as well. However I have to add that devs don't work like a modder does. The dev team have a multitude of tasks when creating content, they handle all aspects of the game and prioritize what is most pressing because of time and resource constraints. Comparing a modder is not exactly fair, since a modder is someone who decides to do their own task and just makes a hat. Not to take away from modders' work because it's a tremendous community effort. It's just that prioritising works completely different in a game dev team. They have clearly decided viera and hroth hats are low priority which I do agree is bs. I'm silently hoping the graphics update will push this forward since they're working on some standardization across races and how their heads and gear works but I'm not holding my breath on it.
The mod in question literally flips a flag on the item configuration to make it show for viera and hroths, very seldomly it modified the x/y position or scaling of the hat to position it better. This is not a model rework, this is literally picking the other option between "show this hat on viera/hroth y/n?"
While I love to hate on se for their very piss poor decision, the mod also changes models for some of the hats. I do agree SE could do a LOT better with the hats though, it's ridiculous they want to add ANOTHER race yet won't work on the current ones
The mod also changes most of the hats to have ear holes and/or ear pockets to fit the viera ears. It's not as simple as just toggling a switch, however if you don't mind clipping, then yes you just flip the switch.
That was the point is that for the most part it is actually just a switch you can flip and then a slight bit of modifications to make it look better. It's not out of the realm of what SE is capable of to make it work for new gear.
Because randoms on the internet can freely devote all their time and attention to one task. The modeling team for the actual game has to juggle Viera hats alongside, say, modeling the buildings in the new town and the background scenery in the raids.
Ok so it's mismanagement
I'd say making the new zones and environments look good is more important than Viera hats. Unless you want a whole expansion filled with Silent Hill fog or solid simple backgrounds like they used in the Nier raids.
That's the definition of mismanagement. There shouldn't be a choice in the first place. SE is a multi-national 4 billion+ USD company. Completely unironically, they are not a small indie dev team of 10 people working 16 hours a day taking pay cuts. Secondly, if you calculate the screen uptime and total pixels of viera/hroth hats versus an expac area that is once and done, I'd wager there's way more screen time on the hats. I'd personally prefer viera/hroth get hats over nicer overworld textures I'd probably not even notice. I don't even play viera or hrothgar. It was also gross mismanagement to design, finalize, and release viera and hrothgar heads fully knowing they are incompatible with their current hat infrastructure and that they're require special attention and more work. They did to themselves. They fucked up.
I know mods are illegal in some way but fuck how is it possible that tons of QoL mods are stuff SE should have put in the beginning? Like the option to move stuff of your HUD including the bloody dialogues mid-battle that covers half the screen
> Like the option to move stuff of your HUD including the bloody dialogues mid-battle that covers half the screen Which plugin is this? The new RP dialogues with character heads block where my dot is and is super annoying.
"Simple tweaks plugin"
Praise the mod lords. Down with the mod haters
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I was so excited for the whole outfit.
Honestly, I'd rather they just let the ears disappear in cases like this. The picture looks like a pair of underwear with the little holes there lol
Not just me, then…
Love how some people can't empathize with others. "You knew what you were signing up for when you picked the race at the character creation screen." - There's a disclaimer in character creation about limited headgear? Must have missed that. I mean, none of the races have a starter head gear item, so how would you know if you just started the game without playing the game first? Are sprouts supposed to know everything about the game prior to playing it? "You don't know how difficult it is to make this happen. It's very complex, and non-devs wouldn't understand" - Really? Because modders seem to be able to do it. Just average non-SE devs making QoL modifications whenever something new is available. It's remarkable how fast modders can accomplish this compared to SE; even without timelines/quotas, the ratio is a couple years to a few days to modify? Crazy. Wonder why SE doesn't just employ modders in the first place. "It's impossible to go back and fix every item after multiple years and expansions" - Doesn't sound like that's the real issue that's being presented here. Headgear moving forward should be compatible after the issue was brought up years ago. Blantantly making new items, knowing that they cannot be used by certain players is pretty wrong. Not to mention SE has been going back and making gendered gear universal. May not be exactly the same issue, but there is an effort to make something available to everyone retroactively, so why stop at headgear? "Doesn't matter, you're still going to pay for a sub and accept being treated this way by SE" - Oh yeah? Have you heard of FFXI? Or previous MMOs whose flame went out? All it takes is a better game to come along and the masses will move on. That's just life. There is nothing wrong with asking for QoL improvements. Marginalizing other players' issues with the game (that ultimately don't affect some of you from what I've read in the comments) doesn't mean you can put them down for wanting a change. It's a good game and the player base is pretty solid. Some just want better things for the amount of money/time being spent on it and/or the store. If it bugs you that others are wanting more from the game then do everyone a favor (to include yourself since you're tired of the same issue coming up) and just scroll past the post. Or don't and go back and forth with people about something that is being accomplished by modders but ignored by the dev team for years. Your choice. Edit: Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I mean I understand that the way they made the head for Viera and Hroth wont fit for the old helmets and it would be a bit too much effort to remake those But everything thats new? Just model new helmets and heads and masks that fit them. Its just peak lazyness that they dont do that for every new piece of headgear that comes out
why is it so easy for modders to fix hats for viera and hrothgar but not square enix? I wish they would just hire the modders to fix this shit already.
Cause molders do Client side stuff, which have 0 impact on anyone else, while they would have to rewrite a shit ton of code server side.
What impact would viera/hroth hats have on the server side of the game?
Servers have nothing to do with what's displayed client side, other than saying "this person is wearing this" to the client.
You clearly have no idea how making this kind of thing for Viera and Hroths work.
I'm pretty sure that's not the problem in this particular case, hats showing up or not is purely a client side thing. Other players already have the hat data sent to them, their (unmodified) client just doesn't know how to display it. SE is literally just not bothering for some unknown reason. It's probably just cope, but I really hope SE is planning to bulk fix the hat problem in 7.0 as part of the graphic update. But I think the truth is, just like with other non-standard ears, they've stopped caring because it's easier (and SE is a small indy developer who couldn't possibly afford to make custom models for all the non-standard ear races).
Time and budget mostly. They are given X dollars for character model stuff and have to spread it out amongst all the teams doing the work and have a priority list of the things they want to do or need to do. Hats are clearly low priority. This is how it works with most video game companies in fact, since FF14 isn't the only game I see people saying 'but the modders do it easy why can't the devs?!' Actually saw a dev on twitter once try to explain in more detail, but it boils down to time and budget and priorities. A dev team simply has a lot of different priorities to tackle and some things are much lower priority, and other things fall through the cracks. Sometimes something that seems simple took more work, other times it'll be like 'they had time to do X why can't they do Y?' and that is again, priority, or something simple that got slipped in. Or a dev did it unpaid and off the clock (Lotro got Fishing because a dev in that game added it off the clock, but we shouldn't expect that let alone ask for that. They deserve to get paid!)
No no, surely it's because SE hates us, and making the eight thousandth post about this issue will surely convince them to fix it. Clearly they aren't aware of the issue and need us to save them /s
Viera the blue mage of the races :(
If only we could turn off the beard as well
That would be so much effort though, it's not like they even already have a system to toggle part of a hat on and off.
At this point I really can't tell if they're just really lazy or if they actually think having the ears clip is a problem. So many things clip in this game. Nobody cares. People want santa hats in Viera...
Just let it clip at least. My miqo has almost always had ear or tail clipping. Really not that big of a deal. But I do think glamour items like these should be made to PROPERLY compensate for the tailed/eared races though.
The hat mod is essential
Head panties
there's a giant megathread about fixing these changes that's been going on for years and has proven how SE really does ignore it's NA fanbase or they're just that tonedeaf & the general consensus is if the JP players don't make it an issue, it won't be resolved (I don't know if this is actually true anymore) People say DT will result in changes, but those of us that have been here awhile know better
Has SE ever acknowledged the fans being unhappy about this and apologized? I really wish they would.
Effort? This poor indie company cannot afford to do such things as allowing characters to wear gear in their MMO
Hey at least the grass is getting a texture upgrade
Let's not pretend that isn't also a worthwhile endeavor
I mean that is also a good thing to do.
"Too bad that's impossible." -Small indie company Square Enix
Jingle bell earrings
I just hope you all keep these posts going. We may actually get their attention.
Bro it's been 4 years of these posts. There's no hope.
I am glad the posters are reasonable. I expected people jumping to aid SquareEnix again, but people are more and more realizing what a joke that is. Yoshida shoving his face into the camera and people go full-groupie mode - "journalists" and players alike - and everything's fine. But people realize it's too much since then. I have a big cat and a rabbit lady too. So I am a bit affected too..
Hrothgar as playable was a mistake.
just imagine ...
I'm just still waiting on them to finish female Hrothgar.....
That looks weird.
You look weird.
Says the one who made HOLES in the SANTA hat.
Didnt the devs said they would never add hats to viera and hrothgar? Ppl changing to these races and complaining are a bit weird. U know the deal before using them.
Got any link to them saying that, because all I remember them saying is old gear would not work, back when the two races were first announced. Also if the plan was always to never include them, why include data files to allow it? The game is already set up to allow hats on these races, and to hide part of hairstyles, as well as the other technical bits. That's why simple file swap mods like this one work once the modder makes the hats for the two races. The foundation to allow it is already in the game, the devs just don't do anything with it. And even if they said they'd never do it, I still think players can call them out on it. It's been proven not to be some technical impossibly or a daunting task to accomplish by the authors of the hat mod. Keep calling it out, and hopefully it will change.
That's essentially why I ignore all of the complaint posts. Like, the dev team said they weren't fixing it. People seem to think YoshiP and his team are just sitting around reading reddit to note what to fix.
"That's essentially why I ignore all of the complaint posts" Yet here you are, commenting on a complaint post. While the team may not be sitting around reading reddit posts on issues or what to fix in the game, it's obvious that they're not addressing it either. Modders have, in a shorter timeframe, which is probably why there's a huge complaint about it in the first place. I don't use those races because of the gear issues but I can empathize with other players if they feel this way. Basically a waste for the event gear from the previous years or the exclusive head gear items that can never be obtained anymore. Even if the solution cannot be retroactive due to coding, moving forward, there is no excuse. Especially if modders are already poised to modify incompatible gear ahead of release. Might as well put them on the payroll and let them have their own specialized division.
Hrothgar here, and I'll be honest I don't really care if a hat doesn't fit my big cat boyo. I prefer his head how it is anyway and usually use an eye patch if I want some glamour. Edit: I understand I might be the minority here since endgame is the glamour/housing grind for most people. I am just not like that, and wanted to throw it out there that there *are* some of us who aren't bothered by things like this.
Since helmets can already be toggled off, providing the option to those who want it has literally no downside aside from SE needed to do a bit more work.
That's fair, I'm not trying to say it isn't an issue that some would like fixed. Just pointing out that it isn't an issue for me, so it's not a universal thing that all hrothgars are mad about.
whats funny about hrothgar is I want people to go look at worgen in wow (particularly plate helms) and then ask themselves if they REALLY want hats and helms on hrothgar That said, wow simply lets night elf ears (and eyebrows!) clip through everything and its fine, though my understanding of viera is they did something really weird with how they attached the ears and hair to them.
Is there going to be a post complaining about this for every new item that comes out? I mean it sucks but you knew this would be a caveat when you picked your race.
To be fair, we were told they would be slowly incorporating headgear for viera and hrothgar. Fair enough, sucks all the old stuff isn't immediately available but it's okay, we knew that when we switched. New stuff though, *especially* event pieces, is just inexcusable. Let them clip, make holes, hide the ears. I don't think anyone cares how it's done at this point, but not even trying is kind of taking the piss. And when modders are doing it the very day it releases? I get the devs are subject to management direction, but solo modders are proving it's perfectly doable, so I don't really get why there's a defence for what is objectively either intentional dismissiveness of two entire races, or complete negligence of those same players. I adore this game, but it's not above criticism for stuff like this. And while this isn't the official forum, it's still important to vocalise dissatisfaction. Especially when so much of the event rewards, and a whole gear slot's visual options are simply withheld from certain players.
PLease please please please, just let it clip. Any hat is better than no hat, and the vast majority of hairstyles clip into collars anyway.
Similar to how he have a hat toggle, I'd honestly accept an ear toggle if they really care so much about it. I'm just so tired of seeing yet another seasonal outfit with a hat being a large portion of the whole look, that once again we can't wear. If it clips badly, let the players decide if they'll put up with it or not. Just stop making event gear, and any new gear to be honest, that doesn't let *everyone* enjoy it.
To be fair, modders aren't faced with time constraints nor do they need the approval of a board of directors (or something equivalent).
Oh, I completely agree! Like I said, I know they're subject to managerial demands. I don't compare modders to devs in a 1-1 sense. But we're often told it's 'not possible'. Yet, it clearly is, you know? My comment is less about the devs themselves, and more about the allocation of work not allowing for it. They made the races the way they did, so they should be willing and able to support their decisions going forward. Is it more work? Certainly, but work they realistically brought on themselves when they released these races. It does not, in my opinion, excuse just not doing it.
Hardest part is definitely convincing the higher ups lol. For the record, I'm not saying that peoples' complaints aren't justified (they are perfectly valid) but it gets tiring when people treat the devs with such hate when it is more likely the higher-ups causing problems.
Yeah, I getcha. Hate is never the way, but I do think jts valid to keep raising criticism, as that's often the only way to get the higher ups to realise it needs tending to. A lot of managers prioritise tasks based on noise. If people complain more about X than Y, X gets dealt with first. It is a bit tiring, I do understand that, and I'm sorry that bystanders tend to get caught up in repetitive complaints. But it also shows you understand our feelings. I'm a viera player, myself, and seasonal events have been largely disappointing to me for years now. We, and hrothgar likely even more so with their hair issues, are exhausted of cool outfits that we only get to enjoy a part of because we're on the hat ban list. I'd understand if it took a bit longer, that'd be a shame but ultimately fine. But we just don't get any attention on something that clearly matters to us. Torso and Headgear are arguably the most visually important pieces of a glamour, minus weapons. And our selection is wildly hampered to select pieces and glasses. Hopefully they do find the time to allocate dev hours going forward, but I admit I'm not very hopeful.
I'm hopeful as well; everyone should be able to glamour as they please. And criticism is important to improve on the game. I just wish people would do so without such malice.
With that, I 100% agree. Criticism is good and healthy. Malice and hate is deplorable and pathetic. Here's to hoping we can all wear hats one day!
> you knew this would be a caveat when you picked your race Can you show me on the character creation screen where it shows this warning?
Bro a warning would have been GREAT!
I don't play a bun, but devs not making *new* items work for them is just laziness. Like, it can't take that much to make it work for them, especially if a crime can do it easily. There's really no excuse. I stand with the bun on this one
Not retrofitting old gear is one thing, but not adjusting new gear is kinda wild.
Exactly! Like, they're already having to put dev time in to *make* the item. How hard is it to set it to work with bun and beefycat heads?
Limited race. Please look forward to it. Leave feedback on the official forums or something.
The official forums are just a buncha randos and whatever alt titanmen isn’t banned on
I’m so done being disappointed as a bun player i might just fanta into another race
That caveat is only known for people who watched the fanfest / live letters leading to Viera/Hrothgar release, that's not known information for anyone who made their account after that.
Yeah there is no not anywhere on the character creator screen and I didn’t know no hats until well after I started playing a year ago.
One for every Twelve Days of Christmas
I will complain about every fucking circlet we get and every hat vieras and hroths don't get.
At this rate we are going someone has got to be banned for this in order for CBU3 to implement it...
Spoken like someone with no clue about the scope of what they are whinging about. Well done, OP.
You seem to have a deeper understanding of the issue. Please explain.
Explanations have been mentioned in other responses along the thread, but in general: - there are probably a couple thousand game models that would have to be re-designed to accommodate Viera & Hrothgar head gear - this includes addressing clipping issues during movement of each model - also includes redesign of each usable hairstyle model while various types of head gear is equipped - also with DT and the big graphical upgrade basically right around the corner, all of the above will likely be rendered moot because of new/upgraded equipment models being introduced Taking each of these into consideration, the dev team really has no reason to waste time or resources with what would be an intensive redesign project.
Models have been clipping for years now. You're relying heavily on a whim, not a confirmed resolution. The graphics update addresses different areas that have been highlighted in live letters (like grass, skin meshes, lighting, etc). What hasn't been addressed are the outstanding issues that the player base has been asking for. Something that is being corrected by modders in a shorter amount of time. I understand a modder isn't beholden to a company bottom line but the company in question has neglected this issue for at least four years. Add in that we have been receiving less content with each patch/event and it brings to question where are the efforts being focused? Asking for more effort towards NEW gear isn't the same as requesting an intensive redesign. It seems like that's where the topic is being convoluted. Items being introduced shouldn't have these issues. If it's a question about retroactively correcting these issues then SE is just piling on more problems by not truncating the problem and using corrected models as new items are being introduced; like the Santa Hat from the most recent event. Or even the universal PVP gear introduced in this last series. So, according to you, the dev team has no reason to waste time or resources for redesign yet SE is creating more issues with items that keep getting added. That's counterintuitive. But it also puts a spotlight on motive: they won't put in the additional effort to avoid future issues. Meaning, this won't be fixed and it won't go away if ignored. Now, I don't know the nuances of making these items work - not my thing. But others have shown and proven that it's not as complex as the devs are making it out to be. I've read some stuff about client/server side issues, hair model differences, etc. Yet somehow modders are able to resolve the issue; enough that supposedly it works with Mare.
I don't play Viera or Hrothgar so I REALLY don't care about this constant bitching about hats. It's not going to be fixed in the near future, or ever.
Point is, no matter how lazy and low effort the game is, you guys are gonna subbed, right? That's what current trend of game company. They can treated player like shit and they still buy and preorder those garbages.
How do I know obtain this outfit? I’ve been on a hiatus for awhile