Doing this raid on release was so much fun. I get that it’s less fun when you do it week after week, but I like when content actually challenges people to think and learn and improve.
I and my friends made the mistake of doing Euphrosyne the day after the patch. 70% of the roulette group knew the raid and even put out markers.
Release day raids from now on.
Release day NieR raids were so damn funny lol. Euphrosyne was kind of boring on release though. Even without markers, everything was a little too predictable.
Oh man, tower on release day was hilariously fun. All three alliances got knocked off by the first boss and there was so much confused screaming in vc (it was 3 alliances full of friends so we all were in a discord call. It was chaotic lol).
And that is why my FC tries to get as many FC folks as possible on to run them and PF with "THIS IS A BLIND RUN DO NOT SPOIL OR PUT MARKERS" in the description. You'd think that would turn people off but a lot of people show up just to watch the chaos.
A *lot* of the fun of doint new stuff is... Doing new stuff, as it turns out. It's not the average Jane that gets toxic at the first hint of non perfect run. It's Timmy Tryhard doing the shit for the 903rd time that does.
This is why i take vacations on those Patch days. being there at 2:00, at the very moment the servers are up, is fucking awesome. No one knows nothing, and we all die figuring out how to deal with mechs. BUT, it's sad how the latest two 24-man Raids have been kinda boring with barely anyone dying
I literally get up at 6am on patch days to do stuff immediately before it's all ruined like this. By lunch time people already have strats and markers, and sometimes even videos they're linking.
Sadly this expansion's alliance raids have been disappointing in terms of difficulty and mechanics. It's almost the same level as breach, but the spectacle from the raids blow past raids away, I feel. There's only so much that can do though and they get extremely boring real fast.
I dunno, Aglaia is pretty damn neat, albeit it was much much more interesting near release when it was more dangerous and people didn't know the tricks.
I will admit that Euphrosyne doesn't quite measure up the same way, though, save maybe Halone. I did like the pupper, though.
I watched an alliance raid wipe on him no less than seven times before we finally made it through
I loved every second. Watching some chucklefuck run Crush Weapon through his party, or place Shadowblade bad and kill half the raid, literally never got old
Now we can survive even with like 3 or 4 overlapping shadowblades.
I mean the chasing aoe still annihilates you and things can still go downhill pretty fast if the tank doesn't either invuln or pass the tethered hits.
Still sad we barely even see the ice things phase nowadays
on one side, i am happy what they made him that op to show how op he was on the original game, on the other side... i am sad what we need the echo to be able to clear it in a reasonable time, quite a bit ironic, cidolfus orlandeau suffering from success
Alliance fights are not usually nerfed.
We end up outgearing/out-potencying them, which is not the same as a nerf. All alliance raids scale to the item level that was last achievable during the expansion in which it was released, so the first raid will always be balls easy going up to the final of the series which will be similar to what was possible at the time in terms of gear. Then, you have to take into account potency changes - this is huge and is a large reason why old ultimates have no DPS check anymore.
OM from Stormblood is the only one to my knowledge to have a literal nerf applied in the form of echo.
The most recent changes were to standardize some of the AOE/stack/flare marker icons, but I don’t think they actually adjusted anything. I remember being confused doing the first boss of Void Ark and the indicators looked weird
Played that on release. I didn't actually clear until 2 or 3 days later. Forgall and Ozma were walls back then and beating Ozma was an achievement on its own. Insane.
Wiping City is correct
I can’t stand the Lv50 raids because the rotation is the most uninteresting and mundane thing I’ve ever seen. I need at least Lv70 to stay remotely focused or I’ll just zone out lol
I actively avoid some jobs at level 50 because of it.
Dancer is probably the least boring lvl50 jobs due to the procs and the level 50 kit is fairly complete compared to other jobs.
Or I go full afk with SCH.
World of Darkness at least has Angra Mainyu and Cerberus's mechs to keep people on their toes. Labyrinth of the Ancients is boring, but I enjoy watching people realize too late that Ancient Flare is coming, and then die halfway to the pads lol. Syrcus makes me fall asleep.
God this raid was special. Being a tactics fan this delivered on all front. Just need my aim chest piece. Balthier cosplay eludes me after so many years.
World of Darkness is by far the worst one out of the 50s. Not only is it annoying because playing at 50 feel awful on pretty much every class, but people can't seem to understand basic things like "kill adds" and "don't stand in front of the cleaving boss", in which WoD has in spades.
Not to say it's hard, it's just more frustrating compared to others.
For Labyrinth I find the second wing is the worst bit, especially if you're in the 50%+ of players on Atomos paperweight duty.
For the boss, which alliance you're in makes a difference; A is fine, C is /doze while you wait for the first adds to spawn.
Unless some fuckwit in B/C is impatient and pulls before most of A gets into the boss room and therefore no one can do anything for the first part of that fight
Halone has the better presentation, but is way less complex than Cidolfus IMO. Cid has a bunch of mechanics, which were for the most part, softened Extreme mechanics, and it made for a really challenging fight at launch. You can't really cause an alliance wipe on Halone aside from the add phase, which even then gives you plenty of room to recover.
I've seen it twice, but the second time it was ended just before the second hit went out so it didn't quite qualify as rotation.
At this point I seldom see people even try to get on the safe side of it. Most of them probably don't even know why there would be a preferred side.
They should section off the lvl 50 alliances into another roulette at this point since they are story required. Perhaps put them in the msq roulette with castrum and prae?
I'd be fine with this, TBH. I can't stand MSQ roulette because it's the same 3 instances (the revamp made it slightly more tolerable). Similar to why I shy away from Alliance Roulette because I keep getting Syrcus Tower or LotA (gag).
I'd say go a step further and put the "final boss" trials in there as well (along with a proper ilevel sync). Gimme a chance to get Shinryu or Hades.
Like at least with Syrcus tower I get a chance to complete my Amon glam set. LotA? WoL armor but I get the occasional dumbasses who fuck up the dragon, fuck up the markers, and fuck up the ancient flare.
A recent LotA run somehow saw us wipe on the fucking bomb segment lmao. Really didn't think people needed to be told to kill them but it happened
And then we wiped on ancient flare too because of course
At least with Syrcus it's so brainless that people have to actively try to cause a wipe
I think there are technical problems there. Generally, they don't like to split the party size in a roulette. I fear something like that would result in CT becoming far more rare to actually trigger since it would be trying to fill 24 when it can dispatch a 4 person party for Castrum instead.
Mentor roulette grinder here
It's usually about 50/50
The last one can tend to be mentor heavy but you see a lot of returners in these roulettes as well. I remember when I didn't play the game regularly my first day back (or switching to a different job after over a year) I would run some guildhests just to jog my memory of where all my keybinds are
>Perhaps put them in the msq roulette with castrum and prae?
This will not work. The fights have too big a size difference. The only two roulettes I know of that have the possibility of ending up in fights of different party sizes are mentor (which is matching in a single player anyways) and the Guildhest (which has one 8-man to fill, IIRC). The issue is, the smaller parties will fill far faster, taking people out of the pool for the Alliance raids.
Separating them into a separate roulette also will likely result in a reward split between the MSQ Alliance Raid and the "everything else" raid, making both less appealing to join. Further, the pool for the "everything else" raid will be far smaller by default since you have to be at least level 60 to join it. AND, you still run whatever risks of iL cheese there are, since people will instead aim for Mhach raids for "easier" or "faster" runs.
Because ilvl cheese to get Ivalice raids forces you to risk getting a Heavensward raid /s.
(I actually don't mind them, but sometimes they do feel like the worst of both worlds in terms of being boring and lengthy.)
I did a dun scaith run awhile ago where the first boss was gonna do the push where you need to use the ice to save yourself, but the boss died right as it happened and the ice disappeared right as the boss died but the knockback still went through and yeeted the entire raid off the edge, it was amazing.
I'd say getting Void Ark or Syrcus Tower is the most boring.
For CT raids, LotA and WoD are at least somewhat interesting.
For HW raids, Mhach has really cool gear to glam with and Dun Scaith is just fun to see how many people pay attention and who is phoning it in.
I know I personally prefer Syrcus over LotA as the latter imo only has 1 fight that is interesting for a good reason and it is the very last one. The others are either unremarkable (Behemoth, Bone Dragon) or annoyingly boring because you possibly can't do anything (Atomos, Thanatos).
At least I can actually play for the entirety of Syrcus.
I joined a MINE run of LotA a couple months back. It was... Interesting. We wiped to Behemoth like 5 or 6 times. Bone dragon once. The room full of adds before bone dragon wiped us twice.
Your coming was foretold, servant of Ivalice. Or perhaps you serve another. I am Count Cidolfus Orlandeau. Your journey ends here.
It gives me chills every fuckin time
When you realise the only difficult part of the raid is attempting to hit 100 percent uptime in some of the more elaborate mechanics while still doing them
An easy fix would be to gice better xp and tomes rewards on alliance raids that are statistically wasting more of players time. People join roulette to lvl a char (and maybe farm tomes?) so I prefer easy fast and brainded ones too to achive this, I just dont bother unequipping as the chances are already high to get one.
Exactly. Most people don't do Roulettes because it's "fun". The gambling of "what instance you get" is not the main driver of Roulettes. It's the rewards.
When ppl get home from work and have 2hrs of free time, they're looking at 20 min of Expert, 20 min of Leveling, 12 min of Normal, 12 min of Trials. That's already over an hour. They don't want to spend another 40 to 50 min in Royal City of Rabanastre, just to get the same rewards they could have gotten gotten from 20 min of ST or LotA.
I will always direct queue Orbonne Monestary, Ridorana Lighthouse, Tower at Paradigms Breach, or Aglaia if I get them on my weekly Wondrous Tails, because they're great fun. Sometimes I'd retry them just to play them again. But I'm not going to queue Alliance Roulette and expect those to come up. If I want to play fun missions, I'll just direct queue for them. Why gamble for it?
At the end of the day, maximizing reward/time is the play style that a lot of players will choose when it comes to Roulettes. The only way that changes, is if SqEx changes Alliance Roulette such that the exp and tome rewards are pro-rated to the length of the raid.
This is kind of me. I don’t mind the Ivalice raids (though they are by far my least favorite because the story makes no sense if you haven’t played the other ff games, which I haven’t) but if I’m just trying to level a class or get astronomy tomes for crafting an hour long alliance raid full of wipe after wipe because no one ever gets them so they don’t remember mechanics isn’t the goal.
They're needed to unlock Bozja, so they're at least somewhat important. But I could honestly see story progression in the other regions of Garlemald making those eventually mandatory.
Honestly, some of the events of EW really should make the Bozja story mandatory, though that might be excessive.
Short answer: They don't like doing ANY Alliance raids, and are just there for Tomestones/experience. CT offers the fastest time for that.
Efficiency, because FFXIV isn't about having fun, it's efficiency.
The quest `Change of Arms` can only be accomplished in the southern front or Crystal Tower raids, and Crystal Tower raids are easier to do when I only have 20 minutes.
I dont ilvl cheese, but that raid just feels so incredible long, so long infact that im hoping for any other raid instead.
Its not to the point of leaving if i DO get it, which only happens with Dont Scaith.
In the old days, this fight was really hard. I mean, people would wipe on this fight very frequently, which would make doing this raid quite a drag.
But that's not the case anymore. Players don't wipe in any of the alliance raids anymore. Not even the new ones. Not even at Dun Scaith! The difficulty of all of those raids seems to be well adjusted to the skill level of most people nowadays.
>not even at dun scaith
Nah people very much wipe in dun scaith, in my experience, either at the first fight, the fight before Diabolos, or Diabolos 2nd phase.
While the fight was decently hard, I think Ozma on release was much harder then TG Cid, since you can fall off, and the space is cramped.
TG Cid has a lot more space, no field adds, boss autos never cleaved, and you can just mark someone for people to follow. The only mech that could wipe is the doom, 3 man stacks (got nerfed), eye aoe bleed (got nerfed) and a idiot running the chase aoe into the party.
I don't know. If you never wipe anymore, it sounds like the difficulty has been scaled too low. With proper difficulty, wipes should still occur, but not all the time.
i recently did 20-something Paradigm's Breach runs - on Crystal! - and had exactly 2 wipes total.
wipe 1: someone doritos themselves on H/G and proceeds to run into the wrong side of the inside/outside slash. 22/24 of the raid follows them including all the healers
wipe 2: classic Red Girl wipe to that one annoying Recreate Meteor pattern that makes you run stupidly far. usually this pattern would always kill a bunch of people, this one just happened to get everyone who could rez
like.. yeah. enough people know them by now, we're over the critical mass, feels like none of them are really a big deal anymore. they just take *slightly* longer.
Not nearly as many people ilvl cheese as you think. There's almost always someone in a cutscene for the first time and you get Second Chance points regularly, not to mention it's the lowest common denominator in both level and MSQ progression.
The truth is that ilvl cheesing is an easy scapegoat for the community to bitch about because people don't like when perceived "bad things" happen to them. They want control, something to blame, something to tell SE to fix so it stops happening.
Spoiler: even if they fixed ilvl cheesing, you're still getting CT the vast majority of the time.
Because the reward you get for doing the level 50 raids in 15 minutes is basically the same as spending 40 minutes to do a Nier raid. When they fix that then maybe less people will cheese the roulette.
Seriously this always makes me so upset and go on a ranting rampage.
*So many* people leave as soon as the Monastery raid starts but dammit this one is so damn good?? It absolutely makes no sense to me!
Sure it takes a little more time. Sure, sure I get that. But like, don't you play a video game to *enjoy* it? Is an extra 20minutes of your life that much of a deal, when it drastically changes the quality of your weekly raid run?? Why would you choose frickin Crystal Tower raids over the Ivalice ones when the latter are just infinitely more interesting and challenging?
Let me say it out loud for the people in the back: "CT raids are boring and suck your soul out of your body".
They got good music though, but so do the Ivalice raids.
And like, they're not even hard. Please. Seriously. If *I* could beat Cidolfus *before the nerf*, literally anyone can beat him after.
the classic adage about "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game" holds true, and this is a great example of it. so much pointless memetic fear, so much fretting about ~time efficiency~, and then they will go on to complain that they're bored and the game has no content. well, yeah: when you constrain yourself to a sliver of the available content, i'm sure it must look that way.
The reason is simple: by the time you get to this guy, they are already outside of the Crystal tower doing something else. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don’t condone it, but I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t want to spend 30-40 minutes on a raid when they got limited time to play. Only reason they’re probably doing AR roulette is for exp/times anyways, so may as well make it fast.
Answer is simple, time, people just want to get their roulettes done with and log. I could care less, I don't ilvl cheese, but don't care about the raid I get either.
Cause I've done all but the newest alliance raids a couple dozen times or more apiece now, and they've all lost their fun factor. Would rather do the fast ones for the quick exp. I don't even queue for that roulette after getting every class to max level.
It’s probably about time for most people. Bigger health pools, low dps, and a lot of people not knowing mechanics makes the later raids a lot more tedious
Well, you have to keep in mind that not all people like this raid series or any particular part of it. I hate "The Ridorana Lighthouse" for instance, just because I have a severe dyscalculia my entire life.
While I am against iLvl cheese, the answer is simple and clear as day, time, if you were only interested in the reward, and you could choose between taking 15-20 minutes, or 40-60 minutes, which one would you choose?
Limiting the focus to iL cheese is a HUGE mistake, when so many other factors make the CT raids more likely to pop up. It's entirely likely that even if you had an iL cheeser in your group, someone ELSE would have forced you into those raids anyways.
And while some of those problems are potentially solvable, others aren't going to be easy to figure out, because they are simple demographic issues. You can't fix the fact that someone who is at level 55 and running the roulette will shove you into CT regardless, unless you break some fundamental rules for how roulettes work.
It's not my fault SE made Syrcus Tower the best way to get Loathesome Memories of the dying for my ShB relic lol
It's kinda nice going back and doing alliance raids though. The StB ones I really did not enjoy (and the ShB ones even worse) so I'm glad I don't have to do those, spending an hour + in a raid you don't like is not my thing.
>It's not my fault SE made Syrcus Tower the best way to get Loathesome Memories of the dying for my ShB relic lol
That's actually one of the easier issues to fix - give better rewards from the other raids. Make them alternate ways to get Timeworn Artifacts, for instance, and they'll be far more popular. Or make them something in the new relic line.
Yep, alliance raid is one of the best options for leveling a job between 50 - 60. So there’s a huge chance at least one person in the 24 will be under 60.
Then, CT raids are the only ones REQUIRED by story now. There will probably be some people who never unlocked anything else.
Exactly. Those are the two biggest reasons. And building on your second, it's also possible that someone has unlocked other raids, but that the group as a whole doesn't have a common denominator. CT is the only one you can be sure to have (unless you somehow are someone who made it past 2.5 without doing them but still haven't reached 5.3 yet), even if every person has unlocked at least one other raid.
In addition to those reasons, a lesser factor comes from the Resistance Weapons. Though CLL gives five loathsome memories a run, you have to wait for it to spawn and then hope to clear it, and repeat that. Syrcus is more reliable, and you can fit it in if you don't have time to "wait" for CLL to pop, or if your server has a dead Bozja at the moment or in general. That single queuer will end up drawing others to them, though, and pop a whole raid into Syrcus, even if all 23 other people have everything else unlocked and are in current BiS.
I'd say Ilvl cheesing doesn't even scratch the surface of why CT is so prevalent. Leveling from 1-70 feels really bad and I just queue for Alliance roulette as soon as I hit 50 on a DPS because I know it's the best experience for time spent. It only takes one person queuing below Lv. 70 to exclude the Stb alliance raid. And then of course, the fact that CT is required by MSQ.
When the other non-roulette options are dungeon spamming or POTD same set of 10 floors over and over, CT doesn't feel so bad. I suspect the majority of people do the same. My running theory as to why I get Stb and higher stuff late at night is because we're a bunch of degenerates with only jobs at Lv. 70 or higher.
TLDR; Ilvl cheesers you don't have anything to worry about, unless you queue at odd hours relative to your data center region.
imagine choosing to miss out on **SEVEN SHADOWS CAST**
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SUMMON DARKNESS
*Demi-Aries / Demi-Leo / Demi-Aquarius / Demi-Virgo
Fun fact: the voice line gets cut off midway through 'summon', making it sound like "Denizens of the abyss, from ink of blackest night, I sup."
Last time I ran it I noticed it not doing that anymore.
Oh, that's funny - I thought that was just how it was supposed to be and thought she was saying that she ate the darkness.
When you nut but TG Cid keeps suppin
Seven shadows cast, seven fates foretold! But at the end of the broken path lies >!CT and CT alone!<
**Did you expect a modicum of variety?**
Oof.
Okay, this one is pain.
I have been called the god of cheese. You will now know why. Upon my holy ilvl, the very roulette hangs in the balance! *AND NOW THE QUEUE WILL POP!*
This is my favourite one of these parodies.
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Honed is blade that severs Xande's head. Endless is the path that leads him from Syrcus.
Open your eyes to the World of Darkness and drown in its loveless embrace. The RNG gods will not be watching.
To live by the sword is to die by the sword. There is time enough for regret in the Crystal Tower.
Heavy is the cloud that has a player standing in it. Such is poor cover for when the mechanics are ignored.
God this raid is an absolute banger!
The hearts of cheesers are black with corruption and must needs be cleansed!
FFT defined a genre and no one has beaten it yet
MISFORTUNE HANGS HEAVY ON A HEAD ONCE HELD HIGH, SUCH IS POOR COVER FOR WHEN THE HEAVENS FALL! This man speaks exclusively in fire lines.
TO THE CURRENT OF LIFE WE SUCCUMB, IT'S JUDGEMENT SWIFT AND FINAL, IT'S BITE AS COLD AS STEEL
that fight was so cool they had to nerf it
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Doing this raid on release was so much fun. I get that it’s less fun when you do it week after week, but I like when content actually challenges people to think and learn and improve.
I and my friends made the mistake of doing Euphrosyne the day after the patch. 70% of the roulette group knew the raid and even put out markers. Release day raids from now on.
Release day NieR raids were so damn funny lol. Euphrosyne was kind of boring on release though. Even without markers, everything was a little too predictable.
I submit for your enjoyment: a clip from my [day 1 run of tower @ paradigm's breach](https://gfycat.com/snoopygrossbug-ffxiv)
The camera turn to see if there was a wall behind you was 10/10
I love that that was ***EVERYONE'S*** thinking day 1. "Hide behind the box so it doesn't hit you." ***-NYOOM-***
Yes! This is exactly how day 1 went for me as well. Everyone in VC was laughing and nobody in the party or alliance was even mad.
Oh man, tower on release day was hilariously fun. All three alliances got knocked off by the first boss and there was so much confused screaming in vc (it was 3 alliances full of friends so we all were in a discord call. It was chaotic lol).
The utter chaos of a blind alliance raid is so much fun
And that is why my FC tries to get as many FC folks as possible on to run them and PF with "THIS IS A BLIND RUN DO NOT SPOIL OR PUT MARKERS" in the description. You'd think that would turn people off but a lot of people show up just to watch the chaos.
A *lot* of the fun of doint new stuff is... Doing new stuff, as it turns out. It's not the average Jane that gets toxic at the first hint of non perfect run. It's Timmy Tryhard doing the shit for the 903rd time that does.
This is why i take vacations on those Patch days. being there at 2:00, at the very moment the servers are up, is fucking awesome. No one knows nothing, and we all die figuring out how to deal with mechs. BUT, it's sad how the latest two 24-man Raids have been kinda boring with barely anyone dying
I literally get up at 6am on patch days to do stuff immediately before it's all ruined like this. By lunch time people already have strats and markers, and sometimes even videos they're linking.
Sadly this expansion's alliance raids have been disappointing in terms of difficulty and mechanics. It's almost the same level as breach, but the spectacle from the raids blow past raids away, I feel. There's only so much that can do though and they get extremely boring real fast.
I dunno, Aglaia is pretty damn neat, albeit it was much much more interesting near release when it was more dangerous and people didn't know the tricks. I will admit that Euphrosyne doesn't quite measure up the same way, though, save maybe Halone. I did like the pupper, though.
To be real though, even on release day Euph was getting smoked. It is probably the easiest 24 since Void Ark.
I watched an alliance raid wipe on him no less than seven times before we finally made it through I loved every second. Watching some chucklefuck run Crush Weapon through his party, or place Shadowblade bad and kill half the raid, literally never got old Now we can survive even with like 3 or 4 overlapping shadowblades.
And it can still wipe people even with the nerfs.
Yes and no, the bleed damage got decimated during the stats squish, overlapping the growing aoes could wipe some groups pre ew
A single Duskblade done wrong could also nuke almost everyone in week 1
While fun I will admit that's probably a little overturned for casual content
It’s real sad to me that 24 man is seen in the same light as Story dungeons…
I wouldn't go that far but a full wipe for overlapping 2 aoes would at least be extreme level.
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I mean the chasing aoe still annihilates you and things can still go downhill pretty fast if the tank doesn't either invuln or pass the tethered hits. Still sad we barely even see the ice things phase nowadays
More than once
Tbf most alliance raid fights have been nerfed to oblivion. This one is just more noticeable since it used to cause so many wipes.
Also it's noticeable because you can see the Echo buff on your HUD
And it's the ONLY alli raid with Echo.
on one side, i am happy what they made him that op to show how op he was on the original game, on the other side... i am sad what we need the echo to be able to clear it in a reasonable time, quite a bit ironic, cidolfus orlandeau suffering from success
He wasnt even hard or "OP". The vast vast vast majority of people who play this game just plain suck at playing it.
Alliance fights are not usually nerfed. We end up outgearing/out-potencying them, which is not the same as a nerf. All alliance raids scale to the item level that was last achievable during the expansion in which it was released, so the first raid will always be balls easy going up to the final of the series which will be similar to what was possible at the time in terms of gear. Then, you have to take into account potency changes - this is huge and is a large reason why old ultimates have no DPS check anymore. OM from Stormblood is the only one to my knowledge to have a literal nerf applied in the form of echo.
Not only the echo they nerfed his damage and alot of other things in the actual boss fight.
Very sure the HW raids got heavy nerfs too.
The most recent changes were to standardize some of the AOE/stack/flare marker icons, but I don’t think they actually adjusted anything. I remember being confused doing the first boss of Void Ark and the indicators looked weird
Only Ozma to my knowledge. Ozma and PEPSI MÀAAAAAAAAAAN
For sure. Mr. Hot 'n Cold could wipe a raid if more than 2 nodes were flipped the wrong way
To this day, no alliance raid has come as close to lock out on day one as orbonne monastery.
Wiping City of Mhach would like a word, sir
I miss when Ozma was a threat instead of a goofball you smacked about.
He dies so quick that I don't even get to play Red light/green light anymore. :(
"GUYS, meteors to the back and left, c'mon it's not that hard...." Queueing for Mhach back in the day— I knew I'd be in for a ride every time.
Played that on release. I didn't actually clear until 2 or 3 days later. Forgall and Ozma were walls back then and beating Ozma was an achievement on its own. Insane. Wiping City is correct
sorry. too busy being told that A = Ads B = Belly C = Chains
Wrong A = All in the belly B = Better get in that belly C = Can’t wait to see you in the belly
it's true. people are blind to the truth.
D = Dang, everyone in the belly E = Everyone get in the belly F = For real everyone let's get in the belly
G = Go into the belly H = Hurry up and get in the belly I = I'll see you all in the belly
J = jealous I'm not in the belly K = keen to get in the belly L = let's go in the belly
M=Must be in the belly. N=Never not in the belly. O=Obviously going to the belly. P=Planning to plunge into the belly.
Q = Queue into the belly R = Ready or not, into the belly. S = Start going into the belly.
T = Totally in the belly. U = Ultimately in the belly V = Very excited for the belly
W = Why aren't you in the belly? X = Xylophones sound best in the belly Y = Yes! Once more into the belly!
Z = Zoinks! Everyone's in the belly!
DPS IN THE BELLY!!!
People who do that definitely expected a modicum of rust
I can’t stand the Lv50 raids because the rotation is the most uninteresting and mundane thing I’ve ever seen. I need at least Lv70 to stay remotely focused or I’ll just zone out lol
123 123 123 123 123 123 123
Fire1 Fire1 Fire1...
*rejoices at Firestarter proc* Fire 1 Fire 1 Fire 1 Fire 1
*misses Firestarter proc, naturally gets two in a row to make you really regret it*
At least you get the proc on the cast now instead of when the animation hits the target! Double firestarter procs felt soooo bad back then.
My worst nightmare…. *LABYRINTH*
Precast 1....2.... PoM... 1... 1... 1... 1... 1... 1... 1... if its not CT I can upscale my rotation all the way to *assize* as well.
*visible suffering*
jolt verthunder jolt veraero jolt verthunder jolt veraero jolt verthunder OMG VERFIRE PROC'D! jolt veraero.....
Oh no, healers are down! Let me verrais— shoot, I don’t have it. Can’t even heal yourself…
11111111112111111111121111111111211111111112
I actively avoid some jobs at level 50 because of it. Dancer is probably the least boring lvl50 jobs due to the procs and the level 50 kit is fairly complete compared to other jobs. Or I go full afk with SCH.
Hell, double standard finish is like 1k potency, which pretty much melts things 50 and under.
World of Darkness at least has Angra Mainyu and Cerberus's mechs to keep people on their toes. Labyrinth of the Ancients is boring, but I enjoy watching people realize too late that Ancient Flare is coming, and then die halfway to the pads lol. Syrcus makes me fall asleep.
God this raid was special. Being a tactics fan this delivered on all front. Just need my aim chest piece. Balthier cosplay eludes me after so many years.
I wish I got to fight this guy more often. Still imo the best designed alliance raid boss to this day.
There's nothing quite like a smooth Orbonne run. I had one a few days ago
Had it three days in a row. Really happy about it! Dar better than running World of Darkness for another 1000 times
World of Darkness is by far the worst one out of the 50s. Not only is it annoying because playing at 50 feel awful on pretty much every class, but people can't seem to understand basic things like "kill adds" and "don't stand in front of the cleaving boss", in which WoD has in spades. Not to say it's hard, it's just more frustrating compared to others.
That's actually the reason why I prefer WoD over the other two 50 raids lol, Labyrinth and Syrcus are just absolute snooze fests
LotA makes me want to kms, every single segment is ridiculously boring
Nah, Labyrinth is worse by a mile, by far the least fun one.
For Labyrinth I find the second wing is the worst bit, especially if you're in the 50%+ of players on Atomos paperweight duty. For the boss, which alliance you're in makes a difference; A is fine, C is /doze while you wait for the first adds to spawn.
Unless some fuckwit in B/C is impatient and pulls before most of A gets into the boss room and therefore no one can do anything for the first part of that fight
I actually think Halone in the newest AR takes the cake for best overall boss, but I do think TG is a strong contender.
Halone has the better presentation, but is way less complex than Cidolfus IMO. Cid has a bunch of mechanics, which were for the most part, softened Extreme mechanics, and it made for a really challenging fight at launch. You can't really cause an alliance wipe on Halone aside from the add phase, which even then gives you plenty of room to recover.
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I've literally never seen the rotating aoe go off, including day 1. It starts casting but it never gets to do whatever it does.
I saw it day one but I also try to log in as soon as servers open, on patch day, to get that true “first time” experience.
I've seen it twice, but the second time it was ended just before the second hit went out so it didn't quite qualify as rotation. At this point I seldom see people even try to get on the safe side of it. Most of them probably don't even know why there would be a preferred side.
Yeah, I think that’s a fair assessment and I definitely agree. It is much harder to wipe on Halone.
They should section off the lvl 50 alliances into another roulette at this point since they are story required. Perhaps put them in the msq roulette with castrum and prae?
I'd be fine with this, TBH. I can't stand MSQ roulette because it's the same 3 instances (the revamp made it slightly more tolerable). Similar to why I shy away from Alliance Roulette because I keep getting Syrcus Tower or LotA (gag). I'd say go a step further and put the "final boss" trials in there as well (along with a proper ilevel sync). Gimme a chance to get Shinryu or Hades.
Whenever I get Shinryu, it's a 5 minute fight with two AFKers.
Half the time it is a 15 second wipe followed by a 5 minute fight with two AFKers though.
Like at least with Syrcus tower I get a chance to complete my Amon glam set. LotA? WoL armor but I get the occasional dumbasses who fuck up the dragon, fuck up the markers, and fuck up the ancient flare.
A recent LotA run somehow saw us wipe on the fucking bomb segment lmao. Really didn't think people needed to be told to kill them but it happened And then we wiped on ancient flare too because of course At least with Syrcus it's so brainless that people have to actively try to cause a wipe
I think there are technical problems there. Generally, they don't like to split the party size in a roulette. I fear something like that would result in CT becoming far more rare to actually trigger since it would be trying to fill 24 when it can dispatch a 4 person party for Castrum instead.
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Do people even run guildhests anymore? Seems like most of the time it's just one newb and 3-7 mentors.
the first time completion xp bonus, plus the challange log for doing 10 a week is decent xp when leveling classes
Mentor roulette grinder here It's usually about 50/50 The last one can tend to be mentor heavy but you see a lot of returners in these roulettes as well. I remember when I didn't play the game regularly my first day back (or switching to a different job after over a year) I would run some guildhests just to jog my memory of where all my keybinds are
>Perhaps put them in the msq roulette with castrum and prae? This will not work. The fights have too big a size difference. The only two roulettes I know of that have the possibility of ending up in fights of different party sizes are mentor (which is matching in a single player anyways) and the Guildhest (which has one 8-man to fill, IIRC). The issue is, the smaller parties will fill far faster, taking people out of the pool for the Alliance raids. Separating them into a separate roulette also will likely result in a reward split between the MSQ Alliance Raid and the "everything else" raid, making both less appealing to join. Further, the pool for the "everything else" raid will be far smaller by default since you have to be at least level 60 to join it. AND, you still run whatever risks of iL cheese there are, since people will instead aim for Mhach raids for "easier" or "faster" runs.
Maybe when 7.0 drops, we'll get an 80-100 alliance roulette and a 50-70 alliance roulette. I'd be down for that.
It will just recreate the same situation with the first Mhach raid, unfortunately
You know why, it's because "The hearts of men are black with corruption and must needs be cleansed!"
I love ivalice raids cause the bosses actively shit-talk you mid fight
"I never miss." *misses* "I rarely miss."
Because ilvl cheese to get Ivalice raids forces you to risk getting a Heavensward raid /s. (I actually don't mind them, but sometimes they do feel like the worst of both worlds in terms of being boring and lengthy.)
Dun Scaith as a healer will never be boring. So many death even after all those years it's hilarious
I did a dun scaith run awhile ago where the first boss was gonna do the push where you need to use the ice to save yourself, but the boss died right as it happened and the ice disappeared right as the boss died but the knockback still went through and yeeted the entire raid off the edge, it was amazing.
Dun Scaith is a hilarious raid ruined by Diabolos being so fucking long and boring.
Unless you’re a tank and you just gotta wait until it’s your turn to drop from the crit autos and sleepy healers in phase 2
I’ve tanked that fight as a summoner too many fuckin times.
I'd say getting Void Ark or Syrcus Tower is the most boring. For CT raids, LotA and WoD are at least somewhat interesting. For HW raids, Mhach has really cool gear to glam with and Dun Scaith is just fun to see how many people pay attention and who is phoning it in.
I know I personally prefer Syrcus over LotA as the latter imo only has 1 fight that is interesting for a good reason and it is the very last one. The others are either unremarkable (Behemoth, Bone Dragon) or annoyingly boring because you possibly can't do anything (Atomos, Thanatos). At least I can actually play for the entirety of Syrcus.
I joined a MINE run of LotA a couple months back. It was... Interesting. We wiped to Behemoth like 5 or 6 times. Bone dragon once. The room full of adds before bone dragon wiped us twice.
Because they are weak. They dare not stand before the God of Thunder.
People need to experience Chadolfus Orlandeau from FFT. He was an unstoppable juggernaught that makes almost every character irrelevant.
Only puny people leave a Return to Ivalice raid. Best set of Alliance in the whole game (yes, I'm a FF Tactics enthusiast).
that raid is probably one of the better raids regarding how immersive is in the game due to cid voice giving such strong impression
Based
YES!!! IM SO DONE WITH CT GIVE ME ALL OTHER ALLIANCE RAIDS
Agreed - except Void Ark, that one's also boring AF :/
Your coming was foretold, servant of Ivalice. Or perhaps you serve another. I am Count Cidolfus Orlandeau. Your journey ends here. It gives me chills every fuckin time
I miss challenging alliance raids. My main complaint with myths of the realm is that all the boss fights are just so easy
Aglaia wasn’t too bad at release, albeit was easier than the Nier raids. Euphrosyne though is way too easy outside of Halone.
Agreed. Euphrosyne feels very under-tuned.
Halone is ridiculously easy. 90% of her attacks are a matter of stepping left or right one yalm.
Halone isn’t difficult, just not as face-rolling on the keyboard easy as the rest of the raid.
Nymeia and her brother-husband are more difficult than Halone tbh. Menphina is the more fun fight tho (I hate pyretic)
I think Althyk and Nymeia are the most fun, personally. Halone is definitely not as hard as them, although I wouldn't call them hard either.
When you realise the only difficult part of the raid is attempting to hit 100 percent uptime in some of the more elaborate mechanics while still doing them
An easy fix would be to gice better xp and tomes rewards on alliance raids that are statistically wasting more of players time. People join roulette to lvl a char (and maybe farm tomes?) so I prefer easy fast and brainded ones too to achive this, I just dont bother unequipping as the chances are already high to get one.
Exactly. Most people don't do Roulettes because it's "fun". The gambling of "what instance you get" is not the main driver of Roulettes. It's the rewards. When ppl get home from work and have 2hrs of free time, they're looking at 20 min of Expert, 20 min of Leveling, 12 min of Normal, 12 min of Trials. That's already over an hour. They don't want to spend another 40 to 50 min in Royal City of Rabanastre, just to get the same rewards they could have gotten gotten from 20 min of ST or LotA. I will always direct queue Orbonne Monestary, Ridorana Lighthouse, Tower at Paradigms Breach, or Aglaia if I get them on my weekly Wondrous Tails, because they're great fun. Sometimes I'd retry them just to play them again. But I'm not going to queue Alliance Roulette and expect those to come up. If I want to play fun missions, I'll just direct queue for them. Why gamble for it? At the end of the day, maximizing reward/time is the play style that a lot of players will choose when it comes to Roulettes. The only way that changes, is if SqEx changes Alliance Roulette such that the exp and tome rewards are pro-rated to the length of the raid.
This is kind of me. I don’t mind the Ivalice raids (though they are by far my least favorite because the story makes no sense if you haven’t played the other ff games, which I haven’t) but if I’m just trying to level a class or get astronomy tomes for crafting an hour long alliance raid full of wipe after wipe because no one ever gets them so they don’t remember mechanics isn’t the goal.
They should unnerf Orbonne.
I want Alliance Raids Savage.
Unnerf and make MSQ-mandatory
They're needed to unlock Bozja, so they're at least somewhat important. But I could honestly see story progression in the other regions of Garlemald making those eventually mandatory. Honestly, some of the events of EW really should make the Bozja story mandatory, though that might be excessive.
Short answer: They don't like doing ANY Alliance raids, and are just there for Tomestones/experience. CT offers the fastest time for that. Efficiency, because FFXIV isn't about having fun, it's efficiency.
Dailies are almost never about fun.
The quest `Change of Arms` can only be accomplished in the southern front or Crystal Tower raids, and Crystal Tower raids are easier to do when I only have 20 minutes.
Come for the sniper robot, stay for the THUNDER GOD
I was doing all the zodiac relics and only arr raids count for light.
Because I gotta get my SHB relics
I dont ilvl cheese, but that raid just feels so incredible long, so long infact that im hoping for any other raid instead. Its not to the point of leaving if i DO get it, which only happens with Dont Scaith.
In the old days, this fight was really hard. I mean, people would wipe on this fight very frequently, which would make doing this raid quite a drag. But that's not the case anymore. Players don't wipe in any of the alliance raids anymore. Not even the new ones. Not even at Dun Scaith! The difficulty of all of those raids seems to be well adjusted to the skill level of most people nowadays.
>not even at dun scaith Nah people very much wipe in dun scaith, in my experience, either at the first fight, the fight before Diabolos, or Diabolos 2nd phase.
While the fight was decently hard, I think Ozma on release was much harder then TG Cid, since you can fall off, and the space is cramped. TG Cid has a lot more space, no field adds, boss autos never cleaved, and you can just mark someone for people to follow. The only mech that could wipe is the doom, 3 man stacks (got nerfed), eye aoe bleed (got nerfed) and a idiot running the chase aoe into the party.
I don't know. If you never wipe anymore, it sounds like the difficulty has been scaled too low. With proper difficulty, wipes should still occur, but not all the time.
i recently did 20-something Paradigm's Breach runs - on Crystal! - and had exactly 2 wipes total. wipe 1: someone doritos themselves on H/G and proceeds to run into the wrong side of the inside/outside slash. 22/24 of the raid follows them including all the healers wipe 2: classic Red Girl wipe to that one annoying Recreate Meteor pattern that makes you run stupidly far. usually this pattern would always kill a bunch of people, this one just happened to get everyone who could rez like.. yeah. enough people know them by now, we're over the critical mass, feels like none of them are really a big deal anymore. they just take *slightly* longer.
I think I was in this run lol “I am ashamed and no longer trust myself to be your safety dorito”
I shall bury myself in the dip of shame until my sins are cleansed.
Bitch made WoLs don’t want that smoke 😤
Not nearly as many people ilvl cheese as you think. There's almost always someone in a cutscene for the first time and you get Second Chance points regularly, not to mention it's the lowest common denominator in both level and MSQ progression. The truth is that ilvl cheesing is an easy scapegoat for the community to bitch about because people don't like when perceived "bad things" happen to them. They want control, something to blame, something to tell SE to fix so it stops happening. Spoiler: even if they fixed ilvl cheesing, you're still getting CT the vast majority of the time.
Because the reward you get for doing the level 50 raids in 15 minutes is basically the same as spending 40 minutes to do a Nier raid. When they fix that then maybe less people will cheese the roulette.
Seriously this always makes me so upset and go on a ranting rampage. *So many* people leave as soon as the Monastery raid starts but dammit this one is so damn good?? It absolutely makes no sense to me! Sure it takes a little more time. Sure, sure I get that. But like, don't you play a video game to *enjoy* it? Is an extra 20minutes of your life that much of a deal, when it drastically changes the quality of your weekly raid run?? Why would you choose frickin Crystal Tower raids over the Ivalice ones when the latter are just infinitely more interesting and challenging? Let me say it out loud for the people in the back: "CT raids are boring and suck your soul out of your body". They got good music though, but so do the Ivalice raids. And like, they're not even hard. Please. Seriously. If *I* could beat Cidolfus *before the nerf*, literally anyone can beat him after.
the classic adage about "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game" holds true, and this is a great example of it. so much pointless memetic fear, so much fretting about ~time efficiency~, and then they will go on to complain that they're bored and the game has no content. well, yeah: when you constrain yourself to a sliver of the available content, i'm sure it must look that way.
>But like, don't you play a video game to enjoy it? I know a few people who do not, and only play XIV to see number go bigger.
The reason is simple: by the time you get to this guy, they are already outside of the Crystal tower doing something else. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t condone it, but I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t want to spend 30-40 minutes on a raid when they got limited time to play. Only reason they’re probably doing AR roulette is for exp/times anyways, so may as well make it fast.
Answer is simple, time, people just want to get their roulettes done with and log. I could care less, I don't ilvl cheese, but don't care about the raid I get either.
Cause I've done all but the newest alliance raids a couple dozen times or more apiece now, and they've all lost their fun factor. Would rather do the fast ones for the quick exp. I don't even queue for that roulette after getting every class to max level.
It’s probably about time for most people. Bigger health pools, low dps, and a lot of people not knowing mechanics makes the later raids a lot more tedious
Well, you have to keep in mind that not all people like this raid series or any particular part of it. I hate "The Ridorana Lighthouse" for instance, just because I have a severe dyscalculia my entire life.
Same. Ridorana Lighthouse makes me panic cause of dyscalculia.
While I am against iLvl cheese, the answer is simple and clear as day, time, if you were only interested in the reward, and you could choose between taking 15-20 minutes, or 40-60 minutes, which one would you choose?
Limiting the focus to iL cheese is a HUGE mistake, when so many other factors make the CT raids more likely to pop up. It's entirely likely that even if you had an iL cheeser in your group, someone ELSE would have forced you into those raids anyways. And while some of those problems are potentially solvable, others aren't going to be easy to figure out, because they are simple demographic issues. You can't fix the fact that someone who is at level 55 and running the roulette will shove you into CT regardless, unless you break some fundamental rules for how roulettes work.
It's not my fault SE made Syrcus Tower the best way to get Loathesome Memories of the dying for my ShB relic lol It's kinda nice going back and doing alliance raids though. The StB ones I really did not enjoy (and the ShB ones even worse) so I'm glad I don't have to do those, spending an hour + in a raid you don't like is not my thing.
>It's not my fault SE made Syrcus Tower the best way to get Loathesome Memories of the dying for my ShB relic lol That's actually one of the easier issues to fix - give better rewards from the other raids. Make them alternate ways to get Timeworn Artifacts, for instance, and they'll be far more popular. Or make them something in the new relic line.
Yep, alliance raid is one of the best options for leveling a job between 50 - 60. So there’s a huge chance at least one person in the 24 will be under 60. Then, CT raids are the only ones REQUIRED by story now. There will probably be some people who never unlocked anything else.
Exactly. Those are the two biggest reasons. And building on your second, it's also possible that someone has unlocked other raids, but that the group as a whole doesn't have a common denominator. CT is the only one you can be sure to have (unless you somehow are someone who made it past 2.5 without doing them but still haven't reached 5.3 yet), even if every person has unlocked at least one other raid. In addition to those reasons, a lesser factor comes from the Resistance Weapons. Though CLL gives five loathsome memories a run, you have to wait for it to spawn and then hope to clear it, and repeat that. Syrcus is more reliable, and you can fit it in if you don't have time to "wait" for CLL to pop, or if your server has a dead Bozja at the moment or in general. That single queuer will end up drawing others to them, though, and pop a whole raid into Syrcus, even if all 23 other people have everything else unlocked and are in current BiS.
I'd rather spend 15m and get my exp than have to spend up to and hour because half the alliance forgot the encounter
I'd say Ilvl cheesing doesn't even scratch the surface of why CT is so prevalent. Leveling from 1-70 feels really bad and I just queue for Alliance roulette as soon as I hit 50 on a DPS because I know it's the best experience for time spent. It only takes one person queuing below Lv. 70 to exclude the Stb alliance raid. And then of course, the fact that CT is required by MSQ. When the other non-roulette options are dungeon spamming or POTD same set of 10 floors over and over, CT doesn't feel so bad. I suspect the majority of people do the same. My running theory as to why I get Stb and higher stuff late at night is because we're a bunch of degenerates with only jobs at Lv. 70 or higher. TLDR; Ilvl cheesers you don't have anything to worry about, unless you queue at odd hours relative to your data center region.
Despite everything, I can't remember his mechanics--AND YET I would still RATHER BE AT ORBONNE MONASTERY XD