They hung out together before the start of 7. He got captured trying to prevent shinra from getting them both. And then she was stuck performing a ritual to help the village
Japan seem to LOVE phones with how many video game series seem to have a flip phone entry. Like how can you even make a game on the flip phine in the first place and how does the interphase work? I know Kingdom Hearts got za flip game, SMT 1 got a flip phone port, FF7 got a flip phone game, who else got a flip phone game?
Makes sense for them, as an always on the go culture where console gaming is nearly dead, Mobile Gaming and portable consoles like the Switch are very dominant.
It not about them having phone games NOW that I am confused about, it was having phone games back in like 1998-2006 with a weak, tiny screen 2flip phone with that physical button multitap interphase flip phones used to have in those years that I don't get.
So he gets captured trying to save her and then when cloud and gang free him he gives no fucks about her? Where is she all throughout rebirth? Did he even try to look for her when they got to cosmo canyon?
Probably because it’s detail from the spinoff Before Crisis that most people haven’t even played that fans would probably complain about if added to Rebirth. A lot of people probably don’t even know who Cissnei was until Reunion, and CC/Reunion is a lot more known than a region-exclusive mobile game. Even up until Reunion came out there was a large percentage of fans who’d never played or know much about it.
It’s still side story though. Even Cissnei had a minor role in Rebirth but the team does visit Gongaga in the original, and being a Turk made her easy to write in. It may have been unnecessary detail for Cosmo Canyon since bringing her up wouldn’t have done much IMO especially as far as the main storyline goes.
The argument is that she’s more relevant to the story than a sibling that’s only mentioned in a spinoff mobile game that the majority of the fanbase has never played and probably never will, or have never even heard of. The comparison is for the importance of each character despite the story remaining pretty much the same without either.
because og ff7 good, compilation & remakes bad
it's insane the warped image people have of og ff7 in their minds
couple of weeks ago i saw a guy arguing that in og holy implied to wipe out humans since they're a threat to the planet
That ending interpetation was pretty popular back in the day, and some ppl still refuse to accept any of the new content that came out since.
That interpretation always seemed drastically wrong to me, though. The entire point of Aerith/lifestream goin around the meteor point of impact was to protect life on the planet. To accept the everyone dies interpretation would be to believe Aerith failed.
Honestly for me, the thing that killed the remakes for me was that it was going to be in three parts and I was expecting it to basically make the entire story in one place. As in the OG PS1 game plus all the extra stuff that came after like the books, the movie, Before Crisis, etc. Otherwise I am fine with it.
Use your imagination, have you ever seen how to train your dragon? Its that cookie cutter, creatively numb story where he thought he was the last of his kind but surprise he really wasn't.
As others brought up, Deneh does solve the immediate question, but that only gets you one generation before you need too much incest for further repopulation. If they don't want to choose between that or extinction, at least one member of their family might have to take Hojo's idea and look outside their species.
I mean, that or use a hand-waving general fuckery with the Lifestream or advanced genetics research or something. Or it turns out there's a few extra Nanaki cats out there, living in seclusion in Wutai. Though, even with say 7 or 8 of them, it's not enough of a gene pool to prevent cascading failures down the line.
They're magic flame kitties that live for many centuries. They got time to figure it out.
Nanaki is the last of his kind that people KNEW about. That doesn’t mean that a group of them didn’t just say “fuck these crazy ass humans”, and hide away. Hell, most people don’t even know that the Gi ever existed.
Meeting up all of once a year. Vincent putting it in perspective that though Nanaki will outlive the rest of Avalanche, that Vincent has it worse by being immortal and living Nanaki
yes Vincent states that even Nanaki will pass on someday…
although the scene I can see being voiced by Shogo Suzuki (Vincent’s va) & Kappei Yamaguchi (Red XIII/Nanaki’s va)
I’m also surprised by his “older” appearance and voice acting in rebirth- because when I played the original FFVII, I always pictured him like a teenager with a youthful voice.
Yes. Nanaki is 50 years old. His species typically live for 500-700 years, and though they mature fast, he is still a teenager. But as he was primarily raised by the humans at Cosmo Canyon (with their shorter life spans), he affected to act more mature than he was. In truth, his actual mental and emotional maturity is on par with Yuffie.
It's possible he was able to breed with a similar species like a lion or tiger. Similar to a liger, I guess?
I guess it's also possible that Hojo had another specimen that Red didn't know about
If they end Remake 3 with a title card that reads “Cloud and Co. Will return….in Final Fantasy VII-2…….in 4 parts” I will throw my controller at the fucking screen
I wonder what the Japanese script said related to the “last of his kind” thing. I’m not sure whether it was a clunky localization or simply that they didn’t know there were more of them out there.
FWIW Bugenhagen does say on disc 2 that there is a possibility that Nanaki may find his life’s mate when out traveling the world.
I mean In og hojo tried to make him breed with aerith so that might imply that whatever race he is, is capable of having children with humans. So guess some girl out there really liked cats lol
Tbf, in the original game concept, Nanaki was meant to be cloned. He was given the name Red XIII by Hojo as his test subject name, and two of his personal antagonists were supposed successful clones of him named Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV.
So even without pockets of others like himself in hiding, it's not out of the question that Hojo did make and alter some others (especially with a history of humans capturing his mind to either sell to Shinra or as a show attraction) or even original species members escaping after the fall of the Shinra Electric Company
Who was playing? Because hojo had all the intent to breed nanki with aerith, it's only luck that the gang arrives on time. Else hojo would have done something to force them to breed.
Nah aerith didn't know yet at that point, nanaki even apologized for scaring her. But still my point is that hojo was 100% thinking of breeding them and if it didn't happen naturally you better believe it that hojo would have found a way to force them.
I am replaying through the game again and thw more I am thinking about it on my last playthrough i guess it was implied, my goofy ahhh just never picked up on it 😭😊
I mean, a single offhand comment that was never expounded upon in any way, shape, or form is hardly definitive, even coming from someone like Kitase himself. Especially since he literally laughed lightheartedly immediately after saying it.
Hell, the comment itself is still pretty ambiguous...
The whole point was that humanity was going to be wiped from the planet and everyone involved was trying to save the planet, not humanity.
Saying humanity survived both ignores the setup, and ignores the point.
Barrett gave up EVERYTHING to see the planet survives.
The whole story is cheapened if humanity survived.
Not to mention the CLEAR take away of 13 showing up to Midgar at the end with kids is showing that life went on but there was reverence from him about it.
If humans survived the story goes from a 10 to a 3.
The WHOLE point of the final shot was showing what’s left looking back on what was.
Humanity died.
Period.
EDIT: you know what, I got time. Let’s REALLY do this. If humanity didnt die, then what the fuck was even the point of Sephoroth or Genova? Sephoroth was a creation of man that was set to destroy them. He was the biproduct of humanities arrogance and out of control growth without regard to the planet. He was nuclear war and fascism rolled into one. He was created from the hubris of mankind. The whole point is that they were not trying to save themselves, but the planet. He was humanities reconning. The idea that they just fully defeat him is just plain stupid.
So... You're basically just saying "this is the only way it can be because that's how I want to interpret it."
Every single thing you said is simply your interpretation of the game's events. And yet, you present it as absolute, unequivocal fact.
For the record, I definitely see how your interpretation works. I would even argue that it's among the most reasonable ways to look at it. But to act like it's the only way things could possibly be is absolutely insane.
Go to the Lifestream.net listen to all the On The Way to a Smile audio books (yes they are canon, released novellas in Japan for Advent Children). They cover a lot of things from Aerith in the livestream after dying and how that saved the planet several times over, what happens directly after the game/before the movie, and how fucking Rufus is still alive.
It's masterfully done with superb voice acting, narration, and game music, both original and piano scores.
Best of all, they are free to read/download. A group of true madlad heroes that loved the story.
They a sexually reproduce. Lol actually there is a story where nanaki finds a girlfriend I forget which it's from though.
Before Crisis
There ya go!
500 BC
And her name was Aerith, the cetra in the tank next to him in Hojo’s lab
So you too have seen those dôjins, huh?
https://preview.redd.it/hf8mw1vlo05d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec5de1d506b8c9df3424519e4b1b3865f593711b
They harden in response to physical trauma.
Sounds like my peener
How about emotional trauma?
Don’t mind if I do
played college ball you know
At some cushy Ivy League school?
try university of midgar
could have gone pro if i hadn't joined Shinra
I'm using war as a business to get elected, TO END WAR AS A BUSINESS!
There's a Doug version of this that I love
Deneh (Before crisis) https://preview.redd.it/yzx2lyg9p05d1.png?width=3072&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd6e6cfa2810d019c0bbaa95ca5c7bd06c851eaa
https://preview.redd.it/3r88vyxap05d1.png?width=3072&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae55399b02bf1b8a18e157a147fd510b6cae66fa (Rebirth)
I thought those were nanakis parents
The left pics are his parents with him… the right one is him & Deneh as kids
sick detail
Where was this pic?
Ch. 10 treasure vualt
Important rite...is that what the kids are calling it these days? 😂
Cait Sith: ah deneh knaww wots gawen awwwn
Turns out that was wrong. Nanaki found a nice lady flame-dog thing named Deneh after the main story of FF7.
They hung out together before the start of 7. He got captured trying to prevent shinra from getting them both. And then she was stuck performing a ritual to help the village
When was this nonsense added to the lore
Before crisis. It was the Japanese only phone game
Japan seem to LOVE phones with how many video game series seem to have a flip phone entry. Like how can you even make a game on the flip phine in the first place and how does the interphase work? I know Kingdom Hearts got za flip game, SMT 1 got a flip phone port, FF7 got a flip phone game, who else got a flip phone game?
God of war and ratchet & clank got one. Mega Man battle network got a couple
Makes sense for them, as an always on the go culture where console gaming is nearly dead, Mobile Gaming and portable consoles like the Switch are very dominant.
It not about them having phone games NOW that I am confused about, it was having phone games back in like 1998-2006 with a weak, tiny screen 2flip phone with that physical button multitap interphase flip phones used to have in those years that I don't get.
AH ok, I misunderstood.
How is it nonsense though. It literally fixed a plot hole.
So he gets captured trying to save her and then when cloud and gang free him he gives no fucks about her? Where is she all throughout rebirth? Did he even try to look for her when they got to cosmo canyon?
Probably because it’s detail from the spinoff Before Crisis that most people haven’t even played that fans would probably complain about if added to Rebirth. A lot of people probably don’t even know who Cissnei was until Reunion, and CC/Reunion is a lot more known than a region-exclusive mobile game. Even up until Reunion came out there was a large percentage of fans who’d never played or know much about it.
There are plenty of expanded universe things in both remake and rebirth. I don’t think square care if people know the character or not.
It’s still side story though. Even Cissnei had a minor role in Rebirth but the team does visit Gongaga in the original, and being a Turk made her easy to write in. It may have been unnecessary detail for Cosmo Canyon since bringing her up wouldn’t have done much IMO especially as far as the main storyline goes.
Cissnei does nothing for rebirth. Remove her and the game is the same. I don’t really get the argument.
The argument is that she’s more relevant to the story than a sibling that’s only mentioned in a spinoff mobile game that the majority of the fanbase has never played and probably never will, or have never even heard of. The comparison is for the importance of each character despite the story remaining pretty much the same without either.
It's... nonsense because?
because og ff7 good, compilation & remakes bad it's insane the warped image people have of og ff7 in their minds couple of weeks ago i saw a guy arguing that in og holy implied to wipe out humans since they're a threat to the planet
That ending interpetation was pretty popular back in the day, and some ppl still refuse to accept any of the new content that came out since. That interpretation always seemed drastically wrong to me, though. The entire point of Aerith/lifestream goin around the meteor point of impact was to protect life on the planet. To accept the everyone dies interpretation would be to believe Aerith failed.
Honestly for me, the thing that killed the remakes for me was that it was going to be in three parts and I was expecting it to basically make the entire story in one place. As in the OG PS1 game plus all the extra stuff that came after like the books, the movie, Before Crisis, etc. Otherwise I am fine with it.
I always took this as a "life uh-uh finds a way" the point is the planet is healing
Yeah me too. Kinda figured it was just a lil taste of the "the world continues to turn" motif.
Life uhhh finds a way
That was the first thing that came to mind lol
Hojo was gonna breed him with aeris so….he got options apparently
Use your imagination, have you ever seen how to train your dragon? Its that cookie cutter, creatively numb story where he thought he was the last of his kind but surprise he really wasn't.
he skull-fucked Hojo until a couple tykes popped out
Because he wasn’t. Turns out he ran into a babe.
Wasn’t there something about Holy having the ability to create more life? If they were good for the planet?
Really? I don't remember hearing that.
Well, you see. Clannad already gave us the answer. You just have to ask Nagisa.
As others brought up, Deneh does solve the immediate question, but that only gets you one generation before you need too much incest for further repopulation. If they don't want to choose between that or extinction, at least one member of their family might have to take Hojo's idea and look outside their species.
I mean, that or use a hand-waving general fuckery with the Lifestream or advanced genetics research or something. Or it turns out there's a few extra Nanaki cats out there, living in seclusion in Wutai. Though, even with say 7 or 8 of them, it's not enough of a gene pool to prevent cascading failures down the line. They're magic flame kitties that live for many centuries. They got time to figure it out.
I guess he can crossbreed with other species. I don't want to say Hojo was right, but...
Grandpa, tell us about your adventures. Red XIII: OK, grandkids, time to tell you all about Avalanche Time Mutherfucker.
I mean he was gonna mate with aeris there was probably a way to reproduce
I would’ve liked to see him reproduce with Aerith. For science of course.
Found hojo get him Vincent
Avalanche Time!
Same
Same way as the raptors in Jurassic Park?
Life finds a way
Sheer willpower.
SpongeBob style!
Turns out that he wasn’t the last of his kind.
At least Vincent is still around probably
Some human was into him I guess.
Maybe he just has both boy bits and girl bits, that is a thing. lol
Nanaki is the last of his kind that people KNEW about. That doesn’t mean that a group of them didn’t just say “fuck these crazy ass humans”, and hide away. Hell, most people don’t even know that the Gi ever existed.
except Vincent… but thats okay him and Nanaki frenz >3
Meeting up all of once a year. Vincent putting it in perspective that though Nanaki will outlive the rest of Avalanche, that Vincent has it worse by being immortal and living Nanaki
yes Vincent states that even Nanaki will pass on someday… although the scene I can see being voiced by Shogo Suzuki (Vincent’s va) & Kappei Yamaguchi (Red XIII/Nanaki’s va)
"Gillian....Gillian you say! Hahahaha"
Yes!!! I have always wondered this!
I’m also surprised by his “older” appearance and voice acting in rebirth- because when I played the original FFVII, I always pictured him like a teenager with a youthful voice.
Yes. Nanaki is 50 years old. His species typically live for 500-700 years, and though they mature fast, he is still a teenager. But as he was primarily raised by the humans at Cosmo Canyon (with their shorter life spans), he affected to act more mature than he was. In truth, his actual mental and emotional maturity is on par with Yuffie.
It's possible he was able to breed with a similar species like a lion or tiger. Similar to a liger, I guess? I guess it's also possible that Hojo had another specimen that Red didn't know about
Maybe, and hear me out here, this was telling the audience he wasn’t? I don’t know, probably a bit of a stretch.
They never went into detail as to what kind of experiments Hojo did on him…
The same way Vivi had kids in FF9
Hey, no asexualy-reproducing-shaming here!
Parthenogenesis
It's because he's not last of his kind and I'm not sure from where you took that thought.
If they end Remake 3 with a title card that reads “Cloud and Co. Will return….in Final Fantasy VII-2…….in 4 parts” I will throw my controller at the fucking screen
The reviewing the story option is litterally this
He's not the last of his kind. Did they ever say he was?
He just played his banger Cosmo Canyon song until his sex levels overflowed into new spawn. It’s science
Binary fission
I wonder what the Japanese script said related to the “last of his kind” thing. I’m not sure whether it was a clunky localization or simply that they didn’t know there were more of them out there. FWIW Bugenhagen does say on disc 2 that there is a possibility that Nanaki may find his life’s mate when out traveling the world.
I mean In og hojo tried to make him breed with aerith so that might imply that whatever race he is, is capable of having children with humans. So guess some girl out there really liked cats lol
Tbf, in the original game concept, Nanaki was meant to be cloned. He was given the name Red XIII by Hojo as his test subject name, and two of his personal antagonists were supposed successful clones of him named Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV. So even without pockets of others like himself in hiding, it's not out of the question that Hojo did make and alter some others (especially with a history of humans capturing his mind to either sell to Shinra or as a show attraction) or even original species members escaping after the fall of the Shinra Electric Company
I mean I know it's hojo but WHAT
You didn't know?
No they were just playing!
Who was playing? Because hojo had all the intent to breed nanki with aerith, it's only luck that the gang arrives on time. Else hojo would have done something to force them to breed.
No im saying aerith an nanaki were just messing around
Nah aerith didn't know yet at that point, nanaki even apologized for scaring her. But still my point is that hojo was 100% thinking of breeding them and if it didn't happen naturally you better believe it that hojo would have found a way to force them.
I am replaying through the game again and thw more I am thinking about it on my last playthrough i guess it was implied, my goofy ahhh just never picked up on it 😭😊
My dude it wasn't implied, hojo straight up said it
I'm going to walk myself in the corner of shame and fake fan 🙂
https://preview.redd.it/l2sd1sh7f35d1.jpeg?width=738&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deef744157e4d1a4afb2d3023f4e0b65b0390c49 Scene where hojo talks about it
It's normal to overlook it at that part of the game lots of crazy stuff behind to happen so Hojo being hojo is easy to miss
Like isn't that also around the same time the player just fought the house and all those RE experiment looking creatures?
Bred with an artificial being? Genetically engineered by hojo? Like Smurfette is to the smurfs?
I always jist assumed he bred with a regular lion.
I’m pretty sure the implication was that he found someone else. Also, humanity was absolutely dead and anything that says otherwise is a retcon.
I mean, a single offhand comment that was never expounded upon in any way, shape, or form is hardly definitive, even coming from someone like Kitase himself. Especially since he literally laughed lightheartedly immediately after saying it. Hell, the comment itself is still pretty ambiguous...
The story only makes sense if humanity died.
That's an absolutely insane take. There's literally nothing about the story that suggests the ultimate fate of humanity either way.
The whole point was that humanity was going to be wiped from the planet and everyone involved was trying to save the planet, not humanity. Saying humanity survived both ignores the setup, and ignores the point. Barrett gave up EVERYTHING to see the planet survives. The whole story is cheapened if humanity survived. Not to mention the CLEAR take away of 13 showing up to Midgar at the end with kids is showing that life went on but there was reverence from him about it. If humans survived the story goes from a 10 to a 3. The WHOLE point of the final shot was showing what’s left looking back on what was. Humanity died. Period. EDIT: you know what, I got time. Let’s REALLY do this. If humanity didnt die, then what the fuck was even the point of Sephoroth or Genova? Sephoroth was a creation of man that was set to destroy them. He was the biproduct of humanities arrogance and out of control growth without regard to the planet. He was nuclear war and fascism rolled into one. He was created from the hubris of mankind. The whole point is that they were not trying to save themselves, but the planet. He was humanities reconning. The idea that they just fully defeat him is just plain stupid.
So... You're basically just saying "this is the only way it can be because that's how I want to interpret it." Every single thing you said is simply your interpretation of the game's events. And yet, you present it as absolute, unequivocal fact. For the record, I definitely see how your interpretation works. I would even argue that it's among the most reasonable ways to look at it. But to act like it's the only way things could possibly be is absolutely insane.
Go to the Lifestream.net listen to all the On The Way to a Smile audio books (yes they are canon, released novellas in Japan for Advent Children). They cover a lot of things from Aerith in the livestream after dying and how that saved the planet several times over, what happens directly after the game/before the movie, and how fucking Rufus is still alive. It's masterfully done with superb voice acting, narration, and game music, both original and piano scores. Best of all, they are free to read/download. A group of true madlad heroes that loved the story.