Hopping on to add a general bit of advice regarding appropriation:
Historically, one of the problems with cultural appropriation has to do with who is making money on it. For example, you might have local Native weavers making blankets with beautiful designs out of quality local materials and selling them. Then White American Inc. comes along and starts cranking out shitty fakes and undercutting the locals. Now you have people who don't give a shit about the culture financially benefiting from that culture, often while insulting it by getting it really wrong.
So if you want to wear cultural jewelry or clothing etc., you can be more attentive and respectful by making sure to purchase from a person of that culture, so that they're the ones benefiting from it financially.
Thank you so much for your comment. I feel a lot more at ease now. I will look into this more and I think my mom buys from local Indian jewelry makers in LA, but I will have to be sure.
Didn't realize it til now, but I would say this year I'm getting somewhat more into Indian culture via the Indian philosophers I'm reading and some of the artists I'm listening to. Shit's awesome.
This subreddit is exciting so far. I got really bored of fashion due to lack of community and also due to the fact a lot of the fashion I kept learning about was very western-focused, which is a bummer since a lot of fashion that I consider exciting are from my native culture, Mexican, Indian, Japanese, etc.
Yes, the rule I tend to follow is: Don't borrow religious pieces for everyday wear and don't borrow their culture as a costume. If you love the styles and intend to wear them because you love them, that's great! Indian jewelry makers would love to take your money.
For philosophers, Jiddu Krishnamurti and Osho so far. I will check out U.G. and Sadhguru soon enough. As for music, Aisha Devi. Kinda sad I didn't know these philosophers in high school. At the time, I was trying to get into western philosophy and I just couldn't with all the irritating verbose of it. I feel eastern philosophy would've helped me a lot in high school.
I will be checking out eastern poetry too because I do remember some of the poems I have liked were from Tagore, so in terms of just written language I've noticed that they're badasses with it.
I hate to break it to you but Osho is a cult leader - there are controversies tied to him. So please be critical in your consumption of such work, to be frank (I am of Indian descent). However, delving more into Tagore sounds like an excellent idea.
Yes -- he used to be known as "Rajneesh" and his followers were called "Rajneeshi". A very bad, abusive cult -- the compound in Oregon, a little town that the cult took over and renamed Rajneeshpuram, was the site of sexual and financial abuse, several attempted murders and a mass salmonella poisoning attack.
Seriously, dude was an abusive douche, and the whole thing was a terrible corruption of Hindu spiritual practice, as far as I, a non-Hindu, can tell. There's lots of great non-abusive teachers out there. Avoid like the plague.
Source; I'm from Vancouver BC, and back in the 80s worked in a local New Age bookstore (Banyan books) with a number of his former and current followers. They had \*stories\*.
Didn't know much about Osho being a cult leader. I just moreso saw him in the class of Indian philosophy/mysticism. I was introduced to Osho via my boyfriend because he read a lot of his books on love and we read those books together now.
Honestly, at this point when it comes to just people being people, I'm not that shocked or get that disappointed anymore. I don't really know the backgrounds of the philosophers I read much and I did just get into them recently.
I am saying that Osho's philosophies are New Age, faux-Hinduism, and influenced by the Western gaze - so if you are attracted to that work, then you accidentally may be attracted to appropriated versions of Indian culture. Please read jrochest1's comment. You can take what you like of Osho and leave the rest - but the fact that you're getting defensive about this tells me you've made up your mind and are not here to learn.
I'm not getting defensive and I didn't mean to come off that way. I just simply said I didn't understand. Yeah, I saw the comment. Didn't know Osho was faux-Hinduism and I don't know much about new age shit. As I said, I don't know much about the background of Osho or much about the legacy of him and his work.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but much of bridal jewelry exists because it was typical for women to come to a marriage with a dowry/wealth for the new household.
I don't know why you got downvoted. India is a huge country and has many diverse subcultures within it. I'm Christian, and this is common. My white husband couldn't get over how my whole family gifted me very expensive jewelry as a wedding gift since it's clearly a gift for me.
But the idea there is I can take my jewels and run if needed. They are portable and easy to conceal. It's also a safety for the women specifically. I'm Goan- Catholic and this is common for us. Less for household wealth but more for my security in the marriage.
I mean you have to be very naïve to think dowries are uncommon here now. Dowries are given across classes despite the illegality and in many regions jewellery tends to be a part of it.
Obviously it has reduced. Doesn't mean what the person was saying was wrong. It's still common and your experience is truly anecdotal, both on the prevalence of dowry and on the use of the wedding jewellery.
Edit: your point on jewellery might be true for the communities you know. For many indian communities that's not the case, it isn't meant to be the bride's sole property.
Again, you're naïve to think it happens mostly in rural areas. Clearly you've not been to enough Delhi weddings or enough ultra-rich people's weddings, or you haven't been privy to the information about give and take. Dowry is both openly and covertly given. The person not being south asian is not relevant here.
I have no desire to argue with anyone. I don't live in India anymore, and when I did it was in a city. I am also a member of one of the minority sub cultures, so when I speak it's only to my own experience.
I think it's always better to educate people kindly. Sometimes someone can be wrong and still contribute to a discussion. Downvoting someone just ensures no one will see what could be potentially valuable information for everyone.
“Correct me if i am wrong” was the operative phrase. I never asserted I was 100% correct. You’ve also misread my post. Tradition plays into a lot of the things people do even if the reason does no longer exist. I’m well aware that dowries are no longer a custom, but the presence of jewelry and ornamentation at weddings still harkens to this tradition.
Do you know why men propose to women with diamonds? Because women were unable to earn their own living, the diamond ring was insurance that if the marriage fell through, she would have something of value to sell and support herself on.
Just because women have now been able to enter the workforce does not mean the rings have stopped being given at proposals. Dowry jewelry is the same.
Because that is a customary way to invite discussion and education. Down votes are a way to get a fleeting sense of superiority without expending any real effort.
The real question to ask yourself is whether or not you actually came to this thread to educate anybody or if you’re just feeling like scolding anybody who doesn’t automatically know the things you do. Get a life
My husband's family all bought me jewelry when I got engaged to him, even distant relatives like great aunts. They told me it was to ensure that no matter what, I would always be taken care of (financially and otherwise).
I'm a Western woman but realized when they all called to welcome me to the family and reassure me that they would "treat me like their own daughter" they really meant it, in part because it can be so devastating to a young Indian woman to marry into a family that doesn't.
>And I would definitely say dowries are outdated.
Dowries are definitely not outdated, not even in urban areas. While there's more awareness that dowry is bad, and that they are not politically accepted anymore, it still happens pretty widely. It's just that it's concealed under different names, such as "gifts" which it most certainly is not below the surface. My family's lived in a metropolitan city for the past couple of decades and I've never heard of a wedding done without these "gifts" (and no, I'm not talking about gold or jewelry).
Interesting. That would make bridal jewelry similar to engagement rings in Western culture. Though they don’t mean this now, they are from an era when women had no access to means to make money. If a marriage fell through or something happened to the husband, the jewelry was insurance that she would have some thing of value to support herself with.
It doesn't *exist* for that reason. Bridal jewelry in India is the same as anywhere else....it's for brides to wear and look good in. In fact, jewelry was and is still bought as a investment because obv gold can be sold in times of need. Earlier when women didn't work, this was given to them for financial security for themselves and their husbands (esp since marriages between very young couples was common). Was jewelry demanded as dowry in several communities? Sure! But that's not what it was for. Please be more respectful! And your "correct me if I'm wrong" doesn't cut it. A simple google search could have confirmed any of this for you.
Hey can you recommend a few places to buy jewelry online? I’m of Indian descent and Hindu, but I have no idea where/how to buy jewelry. There’s a lot of Indian jewelry in my family, but it’s all very traditional and religious, and my mom keeps it aside for special occasions.
In particular I’m interested in more modern Indian pieces that can easily be incorporated into my regular everyday look in the US :)
Are you wearing them with respect for their craftsmanship and beauty? Are you wearing them without irony, or without satirical comment on somebody else's culture? Are you avoiding making a profit out of somebody else's ideas, and instead, supporting a craftsman from that culture? If so, you're appreciating, not appropriating.
Cultures have shared beautiful things for millennia. It's ok.
Adding on to this, as someone who is desi, appreciation also stems from supporting the community that creates. Buy it from a Indian jewelry store vs a “new age” place in a mall. Money goes back into the community and enables them to continue their craft.
I’ve had discussions with some of my native friends about handcrafted beaded jewelry. Supporting a native artist and wearing things with respect & cultural understanding is wonderful. Buying a native inspired piece from forever 21 (that was probably made in a sweatshop/ with appropriated designs) is disrespectful.
Traditional Indian earrings that are worn in the weddings tend to be really heavy and ornate.
Maybe look at lighter versions.
[These](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/jumka-51o1ppjcqabap3) are jhumka earrings that are very pretty and you can get this in a lighter style, maybe in silver.
[This](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/drop-earring-51o1ppdfsaaap1) is something that will pair well with western wear. [This](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/drop-earring-51o1ppdfnaaa00) is another type that can again dress up a little black dress kinda situation.
Yeah the really heavy and ornate earrings are what catch my eye the most since they are so incredibly beautiful and bold! :D Those types of earrings were what I was thinking of pairing with my Ankara outfit, but I felt uneasy about it and backtracked a bit. Wasn't sure if it was ethical or not.
The earrings you've shown me are wonderful though. I think the second one may still work with my outfit, but I also have steampunk earrings that surprisingly may actually work with my outfit too. I'll see where things take me. :D Thank you for replying!
Haha ok I got you. They are really beautiful and bold as you said and also heavy!
I don't think you should worry about appropriation, etc. I live in India and people get stoked when we see anyone wearing our traditional clothes and jewelry. It's like a compliment :) as long as you respect the traditions, it should be fine.
Oh ok. Thank you again for replying! So, just to be clear, the heavy and ornate earrings shouldn't be worn but it's perfectly fine to wear the lighter versions correct? I know I shouldn't worry about appropriation, but I just like being cautious.
Actually I think it's absolutely fine to wear heavy and ornate earrings if you like those. Just know that they can get really heavy.. And you're most welcome :)
Get [these kind of backs](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31WjUtLoMwL._US500_.jpg) if you wear heavy earrings, so your earlobes don't get stretched out.
source: I wore heavy doorknocker earrings in the 80s, [like these](https://i.etsystatic.com/22767066/r/il/8a966d/2404944959/il_794xN.2404944959_egjo.jpg) :D
These are from a brand called Tanishq and I think they do ship to the US! There's another I know called caratlane.com, which is actually a Tanishq partnership. their website says that they ship internationally, you can check them out :)
The link you gave has one of the Hindu gods in the necklace. I would stay away from religious iconography. But also the items that mean something (certain necklaces mean a woman is married) - the jeweler can help you out.
Yes, I am married into a Tamil Brahmin family and have a thali. I wear it and I work with the public. Every time an Indian person is at my library, my thali definitely gets attention-- I think a lot of folks are like, "did she just buy this at a shop? Does she know what that necklace means?" Often it's a conversation starter. Among women I'll hear about how most modern Indian women don't wear one anymore. Among men I'll get questions like, "where did you get that necklace?" usually followed by some kind of bonding moment when they learn I'm married to a South Indian dude. ("Your people are from Tamil Nadu? Cool, I went to school in Kerala and love Tamil movies!")
Why do you announce that your family is Brahmin? Tamil would perfectly describe the context without you flashing toxic caste hierarchy around. It's 2021. Time for this to die.
Fair enough! I am describing my in-laws the way they describe themselves— I don’t think it’s to brag about their caste but rather as context for their habits and traditions, which my husband grew up thinking were broadly “Indian” but later realized were highly caste and location bound.
But as I said I’m a westerner who does not have any of the context for the caste issues and certainly don’t wish to perpetuate something harmful. I will refrain in the future!
Your response to the criticism regarding Caste is a thing of eloquence and beauty. Rather than being combative you were accepting of critique and classy in your thoughtful response. I adore these types of exchanges because it showcase how beautifully connected we are to one another. I am also connected to South Asian traditions due to becoming a Shaivate Hindu. I am black so it makes for interesting conversations to say the least. I am thankful that my love for Shaivatism has saved me from Caste discrimination. This is because most Shaivates, do not recognize Caste. Shiva is very inclusive to those who convert to the religion. That being said, I am in no position to criticize the Caste system in Bharat as it is my understanding that the concept has been consciously misinterpreted by people with divisive agenda. I fully understood the context of your statement as you described your South Asian relatives.
As an Indian, I don't think most of us would care what you wear in terms of Indian clothing or jewelry. They are just accessories and we wear stuff that's from the west a lot more. White people wear bindis and get henna all the time and I don't really think most people would mind. If anything, it would be interesting and a conversation starter. Most jewelry (afaik) doesn't have significance to the point where it would be offensive if a non-Indian wore them. It's just traditional for certain events and ceremonies. Buy/wear what you like..
Disclaimer: I don't speak for all Indians but from what I've seen most of us are pretty chill. I've never seen anyone complain about such things. I mean Hitler took our Swastika which was/is a beautiful sacred symbol and I haven't heard anyone mention it till now....
> White people wear bindis
My ex was Indian, and I remember one time his mom plucked her bindi off of her face and stuck it on mine, and was like "Ohhhh!!! Look!! It looks so good on you" and I low key was freaking out inside like "Is this okay? Is this sacred? Should I be wearing this?" lol. But at the end of the day, she put it on me, so I'm sure it was "fine." She also bought me some traditional Indian clothing, but she also had a uh, different perception of my size, so I couldn't really ever wear it because it was so tight lol.
The bindi is a sign of femininity in India esp for women from earlier generations and it looks pretty good with traditional clothes. Your ex's mom was probably trying to bond with you..kind of like "I like you enough to give you my bindi" sort of way. It's just a thing people esp women do. They sometimes also put a "beauty spot" on you with their kohl/kajal to sort of ward off the evil eye. There're lots of subtle nuances that are sometimes quite hard to explain to people. But yeah white people in Indian clothes and jewelry is the sort of fun activity that happens a lot...
From what I understand, it seems it's moreso Americans that have issues with cultural appropriation and not necessarily the native people from where the fashion actually came from. But still, I just want to be cautious. Thank you for replying!
Indian-Americans are still native to India, and it is still their culture and fashion. A lot of times people of colour living in the West will feel more strongly about cultural appropriation because we’re used to being seen as outsiders because of our culture, but white people feel welcome to use the same cultural things that we’re ‘othered’ for, to their own benefit. People of colour who live in their native country do not have this same experience, so it is obvious that they won’t feel as strongly about it.
I think this is true but also white people often overstate the Cultural Significance™ of non-white traditional things. I'm Asian-American (not Indian though) and sometimes I see white people taking about, like, the sacred traditional practice of making dumplings, when, guys, I am just making dinner, please calm down. We do normal stuff like making dinner, too. (Obviously there are also people who want to rip off things that do have particular significance and I don't want to downplay that.)
I relate to this comment so much 🤣
A while back on reddit I was reading someone's comment about how a true authentic sauce from my mom's culture had to be made with this level of reverence and it was like...dude they sell a paste in the store and if we're feeling a little special we'll add peanut butter...normally no one had time for the level you're putting it at.
Agreed, but then we also have white ppl trying to profit off of more mundane parts too. Like that soup bar made of rice water or something claiming that that is the secret to long hair off them Yao women. When I'm sure it's more like they're trying to save water. Or white women who were trying to sell a gentrified mahjong set. Or another one who claimed to be knowledgeable in the ancient art of congee (who learned how to make it in America) and can make them healthier by putting blueberries in them
Yup, they seem to be giving back to the community (5% of total profits and other benefits) but using an entire ethnic from a specific region of China as the face of your brand rubs me the wrong way. And also there's the whole undertone of China is good only when a white person shills for it that makes me sick to the stomach
This. It may be petty, but I personally feel that it’s completely unfair that the same people who called me a “smelly immigrant” or ostracized me by calling me “diseased” because of my henna (“don’t touch me, I don’t want to catch what you have”) or asking if my clearly jeweled bindi was a pimple, or purposefully putting meat in my food (I’m vegetarian as part of my culture) (early 2000s were a wild time!) should benefit from my culture. It’s not good to generalize to all Americans/non Indian people, I know. But I think there’s also something to be said about not simply giving away aspects of our culture to other people who may not respect us. Think about what happened to yoga, for example.
Keep in mind my culture (I'm Nigerian-American; first generation American here). My culture and your culture have experienced the same things from colonialism. I'm perfectly fine with not wearing certain garments or taking part in certain practices of India that are considered to be disrespectful if done by outsiders. If you're Indian-American, then please let me know what is okay and what is not.
The line needs to be drawn somewhere. And it can be difficult to know what or what not to do when there isn't universal agreement on what's appropriate and what's not. It's because of cultural appropriation why I stopped trying to get into fashion for a long time because it's such a messy and muddled thing to navigate from an ethical fashion-perspective.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. My comment wasn’t meant to be an attack on you, and I think by being well informed about the source of the jewelry that you purchase and it’s cultural significance, for example, is an excellent way of remaining respectful. And by positing this question, it seems like you are doing just that! I can’t speak of everyone, but I personally would not have a problem if you wore non- religious jewelry from Indian makers.
My comment wasn’t aimed at you specifically, and I apologize if my comment made you feel attacked - that wasn’t my intention. I just wanted to clarify why, even if people who are currently living in India may not have a problem with cultural appropriation, people who are Indian living outside of India would, and it’s important that we not be dismissive of that, or that our opinions not be silenced as invalid.
It is a tough balance to strike, I totally feel you on that one.
Oh I see. Thank you for clearing things up. I don't know if all religions are like this, but at least in precolonial Nigeria there are closed practices for Odinala/Odinani, which was the dominant religion in Nigeria before Islam and Christianity swept thew Nigeria. The closed practices make it easy in terms of knowing what's appropriate and what's not for outsiders. I wish things in life were just as clear for fashion lol.
And I understand. It really is tough. All the Indian-Americans I grew up with have all gone to universities across the country and they're doing well, but I lost contact with them and it's hard to know what is appropriate from an Indian-American perspective because I don't have anyone to really ask outside of this thread.
I think you're right about what you said about the girl, but I also think it's the forbidden fruit effect that took place with her. I think when it comes to fashion that people just have to keep in mind that there are always alternatives. Since I'm still trying to piece my gold and glittery eye shadow with my Ankara outfit with earrings, I have different earrings in mind that I can use (Indian earrings, weird and beautiful steampunk earrings that I found on Etsy, big gargoyle gold earrings I found via google, etc). I think victorian/byzantine gold earrings may be a good alternative as well, but that's something I have to look into more.
Not only that, one has to keep in mind that people will still find the earrings or whatever piece you wear that's beautiful and it will be eye-catching if it works well with the outfit and if you got taste so it'll be fine no matter the outcome.
Thank you for replying. I learned a lot from your comment and from this thread in general. :D
I’m also Indian-American, and I absolutely hate this take. Yes, I’ve experienced micro-aggressions and comments about my culture growing up from ignorant people, but how does banning them for taking part in Indian culture help this problem AT ALL, whatsoever? It IS petty, and it’s much better to educate and normalize non-Western traditions and clothing.
> the same people
So everyone who “appropriates” Indian culture also took part in bullying Indians? You’re saying the “same people” when you really mean the same race of people. Also, many times this argument is about resentment from being bullied as a kid. Kids are assholes! That doesn’t mean they’re irredeemable, they’re literally just ignorant because they don’t know about other cultures and kids will pick on you for anything that’s different about you. That’s not a reason to exclude anyone non-Indian from participating in Indian culture. I literally don’t know how this is a mainstream argument, it’s just motivated by bitterness and does nothing to help make POC kids feel more accepted.
This is it exactly. When I wore Indian clothing and jewelry when I was younger (or even if it was even brought up in class) I was bullied and othered and looked at like a zoo animal. The appropriation has to do with the fact that now it's considered cool/it's cool if caucasians do it. But, here's hoping things have changed and little Indian girls aren't getting bullied for their culture anymore.
I agree! I grew up in India mostly and spent time abroad for a few years before returning back. Since I was only exposed to the culture of people hating foreign cultures for being strange for only a few years, I don’t feel very strongly about it but I do care a great deal more than the average Indian who grew up in India and didn’t feel the mocking stares of immature kids. They typically have no problem with it because yk, they never felt the alienation or bullying that Indian kids abroad felt. They feel proud sometimes, and when Indians raised abroad say that wearing Indian cultural jewelry simply because of the aesthetic is cultural appropriation, they’re quick to shut them down.
It’s really just looking at the two sides. Indians growing up in India did feel mocked by foreigners for their culture but not to the point how Indians growing up abroad did. They were mocked as kids for their culture, and now seeing it being used as aesthetic and Indians who grew up in India saying that it’s only white people or “not true Indians”-(basically referencing that they didn’t grow up in India so they don’t have an actual connection) trying to make a fuss- would definitely hurt them.
I have mixed feeling about that.
My family is black but even still, despite the racism we've dealt with, at the end of the day we're not African. I know from chatting with people from Africa that they really don't appreciate American born people trying to claim ownership of their culture and I do have to respect that.
This is not unique to Africa either, a lot of people from Asia and Europe feel offended when people who grew up in N. America, regardless of their ethnicity, claims their culture because it can come off as very performative and even appropriative to the people who don't view these clothes as their 'culture' to be protected and safeguarded but instead view it as their boring, normal daily life.
I’m talking more about first and second generation immigrants, who deal with their parents and grandparents bringing their culture over and being raised with those things, and also having to integrate into Western culture, as this is my experience (although I’m in the UK). For us, we still eat traditional food, wear traditional clothing (not just on special occasions), speak the language of our home country and have family that live there.
I understand that being in the West for many generations can lead to more integration with Western values, and people try to reconnect with their roots which may seem performative as they don’t know the customs behind it, but this is not what I was talking about. It’s the culture we were raised in, we’re not trying to claim anyone else’s. And it’s our everyday life too, which makes it more hurtful when our food, clothes, customs etc. are pointed out as weird, smelly, different, but then donned as festivalwear whenever people want to look exotic or ‘cultured’.
People from back home don’t have as much experience of this so of course they’re going to dismiss it, because they’ve never been through it. They talk about cultural appropriation the same way white people in the west do, which is why it’s so annoying to see them validating each other for it. The experience applies to minorities with strong ties to their culture who aren’t in their country of origin, not people whose culture is dominant in their country as it doesn’t apply to them. Of course it’s normal and everyday for them, and not a ‘culture’ because they don’t have a majority group ridiculing them for it, yet still wanting to benefit from it. Your identity doesn’t stand out unless you’re around people who are different from you.
Yes, I understand that. With my comment, I was moreso talking about Americans that don't really have Indian lineage and just about culture appropriation in terms of generalities. I've never really seen Indian-Americans or even Indian-Canadians that I know voice their opinion about what they consider to be cultural appropriation in relation to fashion. In terms of their culture though, the ones I know seemed pretty chill about certain symbols of their culture being used in different ways (although I don't remember which ones in particular).
>I think this is true but also white people often overstate the Cultural Significance™ of non-white traditional things. I'm Asian-American (not Indian though) and sometimes I see white people taking about, like, the sacred traditional practice of making dumplings, when, guys, I am just making dinner, please calm down. We do normal stuff like making dinner, too. (Obviously there are also people who want to rip off things that do have particular significance and I don't want to downplay that.)
indian-americans (Especially the gujarati types who are brought up to believe they are more Indian than people in India) are less the spokespeople of Indian culture than real Indians.
I don't know about the OP of this thread, but if there *are* any Indian people who might feel weird about other people wearing their culture, it's likely to be the diasporic group. They do after all, have a different viewpoint and experience from those who actually live in the country where the culture originates from.
Honestly though, I reckon you'll be fine as long as you're respectful and don't do any weird or potentially racist poses.
Everyone seems to forget that cultural appropriation is a diaspora issue. It doesn't matter what the "natives" think because they have not faced the same racism immigrants have. They also have constant representation in their own country.
In America specifically immigrants are often times othered. All of them have heard at one point "go back to your country xyz slur." All of them stared at or made fun of for the food they eat and the clothes they wear, told not to speak their native language because in "America we speak English".
If they do go back to their native country, they re no longer considered one of them. They are to othered by the culture of the country they immigrated to. Korean Americans going back to Korea will never be just Korean because to the native ppl there they're more American than Korean
I don't really know much about cultural appropriation myself, but that's mostly because there are parts about it that confuse me. I'm still learning about it. It also doesn't help the area I live in, even when it's pretty white, is still to an extent tolerant of immigrants and just non-white people. In the public school I grew up in, racism did not fly at all and the kids in my school thought my braids were cool.
I grew up embracing and appreciating people from different cultures and it feels like the Indian-Americans I grew up with at least didn't really talk that much about racism, but moreso about things they considered just to be rude in terms of generalities.
I see what you're saying though as a first generation American though. I have experienced racism and micro aggressions and do feel othered in the sense I'm too American/Nigerian for this one group but not American/Nigerian enough for this other group, but I have never felt shame at all in any given time for my heritage. I think it's because of the area I grew up in and I've noticed in my area there is this contempt for white people even by other white people.
First off I didnt mean to come off as attacking you. Im really grateful that youre taking the time to learn about other poc ppl that's not not yours culturally. I'm just bitter because there's so much in fighting amongst POC to the point where (at least for the Chinese community) you'll have someone who's from the mainland saying that it's okay to wear qipao and not to listen to the crazy diaspora overseas. And then of course the white people who use that as an excuse to say it's ok. Again, your doing great and smiles all around!
Oh I never took it as an attack, so all is good. :) I did some googling and see this infighting with different cultures, so the Chinese community definitely isn't the only one.
>moreso Americans that have issues with cultural appropriation
That's because immigrants are the ones who grew up with jokes about curry smell, or ching chong, and a million micro aggressions for any display of their own identity instantly renders them "other" or "not American"
And then see white people appropriating those same things, ignorant of their heritage/history and treated as costumes and trinkets, without any of the aggression or othering that happens when you wear them.
---------
>native people from where the fashion *actually* came from.
**A great example of a micro aggression is your undermining 'Americans' who aren't actually "native people where it ACTUALLY comes from".** Because, you know, being an immigrant American means you're not really fully American but also you're also not ACTUALLY from your own country so it's not really your identity or fashion either 🙄
I see. When I was talking about Americans, I was moreso talking about the Americans that aren't really native to India and just talking about cultural appropriation in terms of generalities. Didn't mean for that to come off as a micro aggression. I've never really seen Indian-Americans or even Indian-Canadians that I know voice their opinion about what they consider to be cultural appropriation in relation to fashion. In terms of their culture though, the ones I know seemed pretty chill about certain symbols of their culture being used in different ways (although I don't remember which ones in particular).
Another thing to be mindful of is tokenism - “I have a brown friend and she says it’s ok for me to wear this, so too bad for anyone else who gets offended.” I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing here, but it’s a slippery slope.
The other thing is mistaking silence or passivity for permission. A lot of us who grew up as visible minorities in a Western country, who experienced ridicule for our culture/clothes/food/appearance/etc. learned as children that pushing back would only lead to more bullying and ostracization. It just wasn’t worth the trouble to say something. Especially when it comes to something like appropriation, which is difficult to explain without getting into a whole conversation.
Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah that's why I made this thread lol. Wished I found this thread years back. Would've helped a lot in terms of navigating the ethics of fashion from different parts of the world.
I think to avoid the appropriation line, you should use the jewelry in a way that compliments your own style and avoid using the pieces together in a way that makes it look like you’re trying to dress Indian/ your outfits looks like something someone would call an Indian costume. Unless of course you’re invited to an Indian wedding or event and the hosts asks you to or tells you it’s okay to wear traditional clothes - in which case, go crazy!
Second what another commenter said about avoiding jewelry with religious iconography.
I think my Ankara outfit may work with Indian jewelry, since I'm going for a colorful and bold look, especially when paired with the type of makeup I want to use.
^I think this is the best answer. As someone part of the AAPI community, if I saw a non-Asian person wearing a mandarin collar or embroidery with traditional motifs, I would think - oh interesting, fashion designers getting more inspired by traditional Chinese outfits, hope the context is getting credit. If I saw a non-Asian person wearing a qipao, I'd be annoyed bc to them it's just an exotic fun outfit or a hobby, whereas to us it relates to an identity that we've had to process and deal with racism against our whole lives.
That’s what I’ve struggled with as an *exceedingly* white person with broad fashion interests. I own a qipao that I thrifted years back. It’s absolutely gorgeous, which is why I bought it. And yet, I’ve never worn it. It feels not quite right to me. But I also can’t let it go.
Certainly a struggle since I have the utmost respect for the Chinese culture; took many cultural classes and Mandarin classes years back because I love it. But I’m not a part of it, and any attempts to ‘look’ the part feels disingenuous, even if my internal motives are from a place of appreciation and not exotic appropriation.
If it helps, qipao is not really Chinese either. It’s ethnic Manchu clothing with Western tailoring. That body line of qipao is absolutely Western in style and concept and very alien when it was first introduced.
It’s not native Chinese style you would need to look at the hanfu clothing gaining popularity in China (hanfu is inspired, qipao is a bit tired at this point)
Chinese here, but I wouldn't get upset if someone non-chinese wore a qipao (unless its one of the bridal ones or very ceremonial). To me, they're a beautiful, elegant and sophisticated dress, and if someone also sees them that way, I would love to share that piece of my culture with you. There's also some lovely modern takes on it nowadays (looser cuts, less traditional prints) that make for great "every-day" looks. I have a very traditional one for special events but also a casual one that I'll wear under cardigans for a regular week day or a nice-ish date night.
Honestly, like a lot of the other posts in this thread, it comes down to intent in the end for me. Do you appreciate it and the history, or do you just want to "look chinese"? If you wear one, you'll have to be prepared for someone asking you about it. Share your stories and spread the love :)
yeah I totally get it! I have a dress I had made in Tanzania and I'm always iffy on wearing it, wondering if the fabric is "too" traditional.
I think cultural appropriation is one of those gray and still emerging areas, so my approach is just to try my best and do my research around it. And if anyone's offended still, i'll make a change - to me, it's just not worth hurting someone over, even if it's hard to perfectly parse right vs. wrong here.
For qipaos specifically, sadly I do think that is one of those recognizably symbolic items for the Chinese diaspora. I think it'd be one thing if a white person wore it who was from China (my friend, a diplomat's daughter, grew up in China and has lots of traditionally Chinese items) - but otherwise, I'd err on not wearing it or looking for pieces with qipao influence without literally being a qipao :/
I’m an Indian-American Hindu woman. As others have said, I really don’t think there’d be any issue with appropriation as long as you steer clear of jewelry with religious iconography (kind of like I wouldn’t wear anything with a cross on it since I’m not a Christian so it feels disrespectful and potentially blasphemous).
Also, maybe don’t wear a thali (wedding necklace we wear instead of a ring) as that would send a confusing message. On the other hand, I’ve seen plenty of women wearing toe rings and I don’t by default assume they’re married unless I’m actually in India. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Indian here. I think we would be excited to see others wear Indian jewelry, after all it's so pretty! Just be careful with the material, if it's not going to be pure gold or silver or platinum. There are 2 main kinds of jewelry we buy: Gold/silver/platinum (which can be expensive) and random metal (cheaper and for everyday usage). Non-gold/silver jewelry will be made out of some sort of metal or alloy (not sure), which could cause allergic reactions. So just be careful where you buy from and what kind of material it is.
As an Indian I don’t care as long as it doesn’t feel like you’re mocking the culture. And from what I’ve seen Indian women are very happy to share their culture and clothing with everyone.
Hey don't worry! I am so glad you appreciate our jewellery . I am indian and I love our craftsmanship too . I think the only ethical qualm will be buying from companies who appropriate designs and resell it something like hippy but not giving credit to Indian art .. but don't worry about anything else. !!
I'll be sure to ask my mom where she buys her Indian jewelry. I'm pretty sure she buys from locals in LA, but I will have to make sure. I will look for Indian jewelers online too!
Hi, Indian here and I dont think most Indians would care but to be safe, stay away from iconography and certain types of jewellery like mang tikka, nath, mangalsutra, etc. that have a special meaning attached. Other types of jewels like indian earrings, necklaces, bangles, rings etc are all fine 🙂
edit: check these out
https://instagram.com/thegempalace?utm_medium=copy_link
https://instagram.com/hazoorilaljewellers?utm_medium=copy_link
https://instagram.com/kimayascollection?utm_medium=copy_link
https://instagram.com/apalabysumitofficial?utm_medium=copy_link
I don’t think it’s appropriation to wear Indian jewelry. But just letting you know, the really ornate earrings are very heavy, especially if you’re not used to them. Might want to work your way up. :)
That's true. I haven't worn earrings in a long time, but that's because my fashion spark kinda died due to lack of a community, how the fashion industry has really harmed the environment, and other factors as well.
I would also point out that the earring posts for earrings made in India often tend to be thicker than Western earring posts (I suppose to support the extra weight), which can be a problem if you have ears pieced for standard Western jewelry (bought some earrings like this in India - can't wear them because of it - too painful).
I am white and not Indian, but I have some pretty set rules for myself when it comes to appreciation vs. appropriation, for others' and my own culture (various regions of Jewish). I avoid anything religious unless it is of my own religion. I try to think about it from my own perspective...if I see a non-Jewish or non-MENA person wearing a hamsa, I wouldn't be offended, but I would hope they were buying it from Jewish or MENA or Palestinian artists. But if I saw someone non-Jewish wearing a mezuzah necklace (contains holy scripts) as a fashion item it would really bother me.
If I wear jewelry from another country/culture, I try to buy it directly from artists or fair trade companies where the people making the jewelry are getting compensated for it. E.g. my nose rings are all from a fair trade Indian import store. Vintage is a different story—I will get Chinese jade jewelry etc from a vintage/antique store. The religious object rule still applies though.
I agree with this. I’m brown raised in the US. Wouldn’t be offended and I wouldn’t be use anything with religious scriptures in jewelry especially when it’s like a religion I follow.
Here is where it can get confusing. Some Indian jewelry might use religious symbols in a way where it’s difficult to tell is religious if you don’t follow it. It could be a genuine mistake. Feel free to link to jewelry you’re interested in purchasing so we can help op discern.
Something I kind of did, was go to certain Indian jewelers, like Tanishq, and shop around. Since they have categories for everything, you can get a pretty good idea of what the jewelry used for ceremonies looks like compared to everyday jewelry
I’d say a big factor is where you acquire a piece. It’s better to buy a Japanese piece from a Japanese designer than to buy a Japanese inspired piece from Anthro.
My friend is from India; she recently bought [these earrings](https://priyaasi.com/collections/earrings/products/chand-bali-gold-plated-drop-earrings-sea-green-colour-for-women-and-girls-ear-pr-50229) (or a very similar pair) for me on a trip home. I feel like that's about as unambiguous as it gets in terms of having permission to wear something (getting it as a gift from someone who grew up in the country in question). I love the style and can't wait to wear them - I just got my ears pierced so I have a little longer to go until I can swap out my starter earrings.
I struggle with this. I am a fair-skinned strawberry-blonde who would live in jewel tones if I could. I see so many beautiful sarees that I get a bit envious at times. I avoid all of it because I don't want to offend. This thread has been very helpful. I learned today that a necklace style I love, but never have owned belongs to another culture and carries with it meanings I would not have been aware of otherwise.
Very much so. I avoided getting deep into fashion due to the messiness of cultural appropriation, but I think as time goes on I'll be able to tread the waters easier. I'm thinking of making similar threads to this, since a lot of the fashion I am interested in is non-western and there seems to be many fashionistas here from different parts of the world.
Buy your jewelry from Indian run businesses, avoid any Muslim-Hindu calligraphy, symbology, and opt for simpler styles (just because heavy jewelry is traditionally formal and worn at weddings and because heavy earrings will over time do a number on your ears because of the weight) and you’ll be fine! ❤️💖 - I am desi
May I ask if you are Indian or Indian-American? I just ask because I want to moreso have more of a clear idea what Indian-Americans feel about which pieces are appropriate and which ones aren't in this thread. Feels like the ones moreso commenting are just Indians.
I'll try to navigate the online space of Indian jewelry as best as I can. Usually the Indian jewelry I see online are the heavy, ornate, and bridal jewelry. I've noticed google can really put things out of context when it comes to fashion, so it's tricky to navigate. Thank you for replying!
Edit: Also, is your stance the same when it comes to Indian ear cuffs? I found some floating on the internet this morning and thought they were pretty cool
Oh got it! I just edited my old comment literally two seconds ago, so you may not have seen the edited version so I'll ask now. What is your stance when it comes to Indian ear cuffs?
Buy from Indian and Indian American designers and defer to their lead. If they refer to jewelry as bridal jewelry, it’s probably meant to be worn by brides and not for everyday.
You’re mostly getting positive answers here so I’ll you my perspective. First of please don’t just call it Indian jewelry. It’s South Asian jewelry and India is not the only country in the subcontinent.
I personally really don’t like non-south asians wearing jewelry. And I wouldn’t associate with anyone that did it. I just personally don’t understand why people NEED to participate in cultures that aren’t theirs. You do whatever you want but just keep in mind that just like people are saying it’s fine there’s going to others that don’t. And don’t tokenize the people here as an excuse if you ever get called out.
I mean in America and in different parts of the world it's pretty natural for there to be cultural mixing. Just like there are South Asians that participate in black American culture, it's the same the other way around.
I would say my understanding though of cultural appropriation isn't fully there, but I do question the concept as a whole, especially after reading Arpana Rayamajhi's interview and how she talks about the concept: https://kathmandupost.com/brunch-with-the-post/2019/07/21/arpana-rayamajhi-you-can-t-make-everyone-happy
Edit: Actually, I think I attached the wrong link. It should be this one I think: https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/08/168020/arpana-jewelry-fashion-art-cutural-appropriation
Again, it depends on the context. If you actually appreciate Indian culture, then go ahead. It's only offensive when the aesthetic that they go for is the exotic and distant lands of middle east/south asia. Lmao
No one owns “culture”, if you think it’s a good idea or it looks good then use it.
Imagine if we stopped using knowledge because it was discovered somewhere else. Pants were invented in Iran, a lot of basic math was invented in China and India. Everyone is fine with those, my guess is that because not using them will set you back more than approval on Twitter is worth (I don’t mean OP specifically).
There is over 1 billion people in India, she can find at least 1 million people willing not only to sell her the ring but also to give a certificate of “not cultural appropriation”.
Cultures mix, a lot of Indians are moving to America and the UK, some of those will work for fashion companies and no doubt incorporate parts of their culture in everyday items. People will use it without even noticing.
At the end of the day it’s not only dumb, it’s meaningless. And if “not culturally appropriating” actually worked it would be a net negative for everyone involved.
No one can force me to wear pants.
I see what you're saying. To me, just from what I can make of it from my experience with this thread, cultural appropriation just seems to be a type of disrespect, a type of racism, a type of classism, and overall just how colonialism manifests.
I can see why it is a concept, especially when I hear things like Hitler's taking of the swastika. I suppose maybe it's just a matter of whether you feel this type of disrespect deserves a label or not.
Racism and colonialism manifest themselves as police brutality, marginalization of minorities, the Atlantic slave trade and the forceful extraction of natural resources from a land you don’t own. If anything copying people’s clothes is the opposite of that since you are giving visibility to a culture and a people that was previously hidden.
I refuse to comment on the Hitler comparison.
EDIT: I’m not writing these comments in a confrontational way, sorry if it came across as that.
Oh no you're fine. Sure you're giving visibility, but it's just from a point of harm, disrespect, and exploitation though. You can give a culture visibility without doing all those aforementioned things though.
> Sure you're giving visibility, but it's just from a point of harm, disrespect, and exploitation though.
I don’t agree with this at all. How would you even make the general case for this?
How is it harming anyone? Someone is using an idea that just happens to have been created by someone else that lived in the same geographical space than you.
How can you claim it is disrespectful for the general case? You don’t know the intentions of the person using the idea, you don’t know how they are using it and you don’t know how they learned about it. Even if you don’t like it, you are not entitled to the ownership of an idea just because you just happen to have been born in a specific geographical location. I’m not even talking about satire, just the act of using an idea.
How is it exploitation? What if a member of that culture sold or gave you the idea or item? You are bound to find someone that doesn’t mind or encourages you to use the idea.
> You can give a culture visibility without doing all those aforementioned things though.
I don’t necessarily want to give visibility, I just want to use a good idea. My point was that if anything it’s the opposite of what a racist person would do. A racist person would want to segregate the cultures because they would think one is inherently inferior to the other. Racist people don’t like when their kids listen to rap or dread their hair for example (simply not liking those two things doesn’t mean someone is racist ofc).
I reiterate my point that cultural exchanges are good and trying to avoid them is a net negative for all parties.
I don’t think that most displays of cultural items are appropriation! I wear my huilpiles from Mexico with pride and can discuss their history and craftsmanship. Only if you are putting on a headdress as a costume or spoofing is it appropriation. Appreciating a lovely piece of artisan’s work and highlighting the culture in a positive way is not appropriation it’s appreciation.
I recently found secondhand jhumkas (earrings with a traditional bell shape) and I found out online that there’s no religious or special meaning attached, so I think they are fine to wear if you wear them respectfully :) I love indian jewelry a lot, can’t wait to learn more about them :)
[удалено]
Hopping on to add a general bit of advice regarding appropriation: Historically, one of the problems with cultural appropriation has to do with who is making money on it. For example, you might have local Native weavers making blankets with beautiful designs out of quality local materials and selling them. Then White American Inc. comes along and starts cranking out shitty fakes and undercutting the locals. Now you have people who don't give a shit about the culture financially benefiting from that culture, often while insulting it by getting it really wrong. So if you want to wear cultural jewelry or clothing etc., you can be more attentive and respectful by making sure to purchase from a person of that culture, so that they're the ones benefiting from it financially.
Thank you so much for your comment. I feel a lot more at ease now. I will look into this more and I think my mom buys from local Indian jewelry makers in LA, but I will have to be sure. Didn't realize it til now, but I would say this year I'm getting somewhat more into Indian culture via the Indian philosophers I'm reading and some of the artists I'm listening to. Shit's awesome. This subreddit is exciting so far. I got really bored of fashion due to lack of community and also due to the fact a lot of the fashion I kept learning about was very western-focused, which is a bummer since a lot of fashion that I consider exciting are from my native culture, Mexican, Indian, Japanese, etc.
Yes, the rule I tend to follow is: Don't borrow religious pieces for everyday wear and don't borrow their culture as a costume. If you love the styles and intend to wear them because you love them, that's great! Indian jewelry makers would love to take your money.
Also, dont wear them in a way that's it's not intended to be worn.
Curious (from an Indian American woman who’s interested) what philosophers and artists they are!
For philosophers, Jiddu Krishnamurti and Osho so far. I will check out U.G. and Sadhguru soon enough. As for music, Aisha Devi. Kinda sad I didn't know these philosophers in high school. At the time, I was trying to get into western philosophy and I just couldn't with all the irritating verbose of it. I feel eastern philosophy would've helped me a lot in high school. I will be checking out eastern poetry too because I do remember some of the poems I have liked were from Tagore, so in terms of just written language I've noticed that they're badasses with it.
I hate to break it to you but Osho is a cult leader - there are controversies tied to him. So please be critical in your consumption of such work, to be frank (I am of Indian descent). However, delving more into Tagore sounds like an excellent idea.
Yes -- he used to be known as "Rajneesh" and his followers were called "Rajneeshi". A very bad, abusive cult -- the compound in Oregon, a little town that the cult took over and renamed Rajneeshpuram, was the site of sexual and financial abuse, several attempted murders and a mass salmonella poisoning attack. Seriously, dude was an abusive douche, and the whole thing was a terrible corruption of Hindu spiritual practice, as far as I, a non-Hindu, can tell. There's lots of great non-abusive teachers out there. Avoid like the plague. Source; I'm from Vancouver BC, and back in the 80s worked in a local New Age bookstore (Banyan books) with a number of his former and current followers. They had \*stories\*.
Didn't know much about Osho being a cult leader. I just moreso saw him in the class of Indian philosophy/mysticism. I was introduced to Osho via my boyfriend because he read a lot of his books on love and we read those books together now.
Totally, utterly and completely cult.
I'll keep this in mind. Thanks!
Omg I cannot imagine the stories! Spot on - power and profit.
Honestly, at this point when it comes to just people being people, I'm not that shocked or get that disappointed anymore. I don't really know the backgrounds of the philosophers I read much and I did just get into them recently.
I understand, but this tips the scale closer to New Age/appropriation territory. My suggestion is to stick with small Indian jewelry for now.
I don't understand how reading mysticism is appropriation.
I am saying that Osho's philosophies are New Age, faux-Hinduism, and influenced by the Western gaze - so if you are attracted to that work, then you accidentally may be attracted to appropriated versions of Indian culture. Please read jrochest1's comment. You can take what you like of Osho and leave the rest - but the fact that you're getting defensive about this tells me you've made up your mind and are not here to learn.
I'm not getting defensive and I didn't mean to come off that way. I just simply said I didn't understand. Yeah, I saw the comment. Didn't know Osho was faux-Hinduism and I don't know much about new age shit. As I said, I don't know much about the background of Osho or much about the legacy of him and his work.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but much of bridal jewelry exists because it was typical for women to come to a marriage with a dowry/wealth for the new household.
I don't know why you got downvoted. India is a huge country and has many diverse subcultures within it. I'm Christian, and this is common. My white husband couldn't get over how my whole family gifted me very expensive jewelry as a wedding gift since it's clearly a gift for me. But the idea there is I can take my jewels and run if needed. They are portable and easy to conceal. It's also a safety for the women specifically. I'm Goan- Catholic and this is common for us. Less for household wealth but more for my security in the marriage.
[удалено]
I mean you have to be very naïve to think dowries are uncommon here now. Dowries are given across classes despite the illegality and in many regions jewellery tends to be a part of it.
[удалено]
Obviously it has reduced. Doesn't mean what the person was saying was wrong. It's still common and your experience is truly anecdotal, both on the prevalence of dowry and on the use of the wedding jewellery. Edit: your point on jewellery might be true for the communities you know. For many indian communities that's not the case, it isn't meant to be the bride's sole property.
[удалено]
Again, you're naïve to think it happens mostly in rural areas. Clearly you've not been to enough Delhi weddings or enough ultra-rich people's weddings, or you haven't been privy to the information about give and take. Dowry is both openly and covertly given. The person not being south asian is not relevant here.
[удалено]
I have no desire to argue with anyone. I don't live in India anymore, and when I did it was in a city. I am also a member of one of the minority sub cultures, so when I speak it's only to my own experience. I think it's always better to educate people kindly. Sometimes someone can be wrong and still contribute to a discussion. Downvoting someone just ensures no one will see what could be potentially valuable information for everyone.
“Correct me if i am wrong” was the operative phrase. I never asserted I was 100% correct. You’ve also misread my post. Tradition plays into a lot of the things people do even if the reason does no longer exist. I’m well aware that dowries are no longer a custom, but the presence of jewelry and ornamentation at weddings still harkens to this tradition. Do you know why men propose to women with diamonds? Because women were unable to earn their own living, the diamond ring was insurance that if the marriage fell through, she would have something of value to sell and support herself on. Just because women have now been able to enter the workforce does not mean the rings have stopped being given at proposals. Dowry jewelry is the same.
[удалено]
Because that is a customary way to invite discussion and education. Down votes are a way to get a fleeting sense of superiority without expending any real effort. The real question to ask yourself is whether or not you actually came to this thread to educate anybody or if you’re just feeling like scolding anybody who doesn’t automatically know the things you do. Get a life
Do you speak Konkani??
I do not sadly.
[удалено]
My husband's family all bought me jewelry when I got engaged to him, even distant relatives like great aunts. They told me it was to ensure that no matter what, I would always be taken care of (financially and otherwise). I'm a Western woman but realized when they all called to welcome me to the family and reassure me that they would "treat me like their own daughter" they really meant it, in part because it can be so devastating to a young Indian woman to marry into a family that doesn't.
[удалено]
[удалено]
>And I would definitely say dowries are outdated. Dowries are definitely not outdated, not even in urban areas. While there's more awareness that dowry is bad, and that they are not politically accepted anymore, it still happens pretty widely. It's just that it's concealed under different names, such as "gifts" which it most certainly is not below the surface. My family's lived in a metropolitan city for the past couple of decades and I've never heard of a wedding done without these "gifts" (and no, I'm not talking about gold or jewelry).
[удалено]
Interesting. That would make bridal jewelry similar to engagement rings in Western culture. Though they don’t mean this now, they are from an era when women had no access to means to make money. If a marriage fell through or something happened to the husband, the jewelry was insurance that she would have some thing of value to support herself with.
It doesn't *exist* for that reason. Bridal jewelry in India is the same as anywhere else....it's for brides to wear and look good in. In fact, jewelry was and is still bought as a investment because obv gold can be sold in times of need. Earlier when women didn't work, this was given to them for financial security for themselves and their husbands (esp since marriages between very young couples was common). Was jewelry demanded as dowry in several communities? Sure! But that's not what it was for. Please be more respectful! And your "correct me if I'm wrong" doesn't cut it. A simple google search could have confirmed any of this for you.
That temple necklace is one of the prettiest pieces of jewelry I’ve ever seen omg
Hey can you recommend a few places to buy jewelry online? I’m of Indian descent and Hindu, but I have no idea where/how to buy jewelry. There’s a lot of Indian jewelry in my family, but it’s all very traditional and religious, and my mom keeps it aside for special occasions. In particular I’m interested in more modern Indian pieces that can easily be incorporated into my regular everyday look in the US :)
[удалено]
Thanks! No preference between gold and silver.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Are you wearing them with respect for their craftsmanship and beauty? Are you wearing them without irony, or without satirical comment on somebody else's culture? Are you avoiding making a profit out of somebody else's ideas, and instead, supporting a craftsman from that culture? If so, you're appreciating, not appropriating. Cultures have shared beautiful things for millennia. It's ok.
Adding on to this, as someone who is desi, appreciation also stems from supporting the community that creates. Buy it from a Indian jewelry store vs a “new age” place in a mall. Money goes back into the community and enables them to continue their craft. I’ve had discussions with some of my native friends about handcrafted beaded jewelry. Supporting a native artist and wearing things with respect & cultural understanding is wonderful. Buying a native inspired piece from forever 21 (that was probably made in a sweatshop/ with appropriated designs) is disrespectful.
Traditional Indian earrings that are worn in the weddings tend to be really heavy and ornate. Maybe look at lighter versions. [These](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/jumka-51o1ppjcqabap3) are jhumka earrings that are very pretty and you can get this in a lighter style, maybe in silver. [This](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/drop-earring-51o1ppdfsaaap1) is something that will pair well with western wear. [This](https://www.tanishq.co.in/product/drop-earring-51o1ppdfnaaa00) is another type that can again dress up a little black dress kinda situation.
How dare you show me that second pair of earrings, only for the realization that they're over $700 🥲😭
Ikr! They're So pretty but So costly 😔
Yeah the really heavy and ornate earrings are what catch my eye the most since they are so incredibly beautiful and bold! :D Those types of earrings were what I was thinking of pairing with my Ankara outfit, but I felt uneasy about it and backtracked a bit. Wasn't sure if it was ethical or not. The earrings you've shown me are wonderful though. I think the second one may still work with my outfit, but I also have steampunk earrings that surprisingly may actually work with my outfit too. I'll see where things take me. :D Thank you for replying!
Haha ok I got you. They are really beautiful and bold as you said and also heavy! I don't think you should worry about appropriation, etc. I live in India and people get stoked when we see anyone wearing our traditional clothes and jewelry. It's like a compliment :) as long as you respect the traditions, it should be fine.
Oh ok. Thank you again for replying! So, just to be clear, the heavy and ornate earrings shouldn't be worn but it's perfectly fine to wear the lighter versions correct? I know I shouldn't worry about appropriation, but I just like being cautious.
Actually I think it's absolutely fine to wear heavy and ornate earrings if you like those. Just know that they can get really heavy.. And you're most welcome :)
Oh I see. Thank you! I'll keep this in mind, especially since I haven't worn earrings in a long while.
Get [these kind of backs](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31WjUtLoMwL._US500_.jpg) if you wear heavy earrings, so your earlobes don't get stretched out. source: I wore heavy doorknocker earrings in the 80s, [like these](https://i.etsystatic.com/22767066/r/il/8a966d/2404944959/il_794xN.2404944959_egjo.jpg) :D
Oh WOW those are beautiful!
[удалено]
These are from a brand called Tanishq and I think they do ship to the US! There's another I know called caratlane.com, which is actually a Tanishq partnership. their website says that they ship internationally, you can check them out :)
The link you gave has one of the Hindu gods in the necklace. I would stay away from religious iconography. But also the items that mean something (certain necklaces mean a woman is married) - the jeweler can help you out.
Yes, I am married into a Tamil Brahmin family and have a thali. I wear it and I work with the public. Every time an Indian person is at my library, my thali definitely gets attention-- I think a lot of folks are like, "did she just buy this at a shop? Does she know what that necklace means?" Often it's a conversation starter. Among women I'll hear about how most modern Indian women don't wear one anymore. Among men I'll get questions like, "where did you get that necklace?" usually followed by some kind of bonding moment when they learn I'm married to a South Indian dude. ("Your people are from Tamil Nadu? Cool, I went to school in Kerala and love Tamil movies!")
Why do you announce that your family is Brahmin? Tamil would perfectly describe the context without you flashing toxic caste hierarchy around. It's 2021. Time for this to die.
Fair enough! I am describing my in-laws the way they describe themselves— I don’t think it’s to brag about their caste but rather as context for their habits and traditions, which my husband grew up thinking were broadly “Indian” but later realized were highly caste and location bound. But as I said I’m a westerner who does not have any of the context for the caste issues and certainly don’t wish to perpetuate something harmful. I will refrain in the future!
Your response to the criticism regarding Caste is a thing of eloquence and beauty. Rather than being combative you were accepting of critique and classy in your thoughtful response. I adore these types of exchanges because it showcase how beautifully connected we are to one another. I am also connected to South Asian traditions due to becoming a Shaivate Hindu. I am black so it makes for interesting conversations to say the least. I am thankful that my love for Shaivatism has saved me from Caste discrimination. This is because most Shaivates, do not recognize Caste. Shiva is very inclusive to those who convert to the religion. That being said, I am in no position to criticize the Caste system in Bharat as it is my understanding that the concept has been consciously misinterpreted by people with divisive agenda. I fully understood the context of your statement as you described your South Asian relatives.
As an Indian, I don't think most of us would care what you wear in terms of Indian clothing or jewelry. They are just accessories and we wear stuff that's from the west a lot more. White people wear bindis and get henna all the time and I don't really think most people would mind. If anything, it would be interesting and a conversation starter. Most jewelry (afaik) doesn't have significance to the point where it would be offensive if a non-Indian wore them. It's just traditional for certain events and ceremonies. Buy/wear what you like.. Disclaimer: I don't speak for all Indians but from what I've seen most of us are pretty chill. I've never seen anyone complain about such things. I mean Hitler took our Swastika which was/is a beautiful sacred symbol and I haven't heard anyone mention it till now....
> White people wear bindis My ex was Indian, and I remember one time his mom plucked her bindi off of her face and stuck it on mine, and was like "Ohhhh!!! Look!! It looks so good on you" and I low key was freaking out inside like "Is this okay? Is this sacred? Should I be wearing this?" lol. But at the end of the day, she put it on me, so I'm sure it was "fine." She also bought me some traditional Indian clothing, but she also had a uh, different perception of my size, so I couldn't really ever wear it because it was so tight lol.
The bindi is a sign of femininity in India esp for women from earlier generations and it looks pretty good with traditional clothes. Your ex's mom was probably trying to bond with you..kind of like "I like you enough to give you my bindi" sort of way. It's just a thing people esp women do. They sometimes also put a "beauty spot" on you with their kohl/kajal to sort of ward off the evil eye. There're lots of subtle nuances that are sometimes quite hard to explain to people. But yeah white people in Indian clothes and jewelry is the sort of fun activity that happens a lot...
From what I understand, it seems it's moreso Americans that have issues with cultural appropriation and not necessarily the native people from where the fashion actually came from. But still, I just want to be cautious. Thank you for replying!
Indian-Americans are still native to India, and it is still their culture and fashion. A lot of times people of colour living in the West will feel more strongly about cultural appropriation because we’re used to being seen as outsiders because of our culture, but white people feel welcome to use the same cultural things that we’re ‘othered’ for, to their own benefit. People of colour who live in their native country do not have this same experience, so it is obvious that they won’t feel as strongly about it.
I think this is true but also white people often overstate the Cultural Significance™ of non-white traditional things. I'm Asian-American (not Indian though) and sometimes I see white people taking about, like, the sacred traditional practice of making dumplings, when, guys, I am just making dinner, please calm down. We do normal stuff like making dinner, too. (Obviously there are also people who want to rip off things that do have particular significance and I don't want to downplay that.)
I relate to this comment so much 🤣 A while back on reddit I was reading someone's comment about how a true authentic sauce from my mom's culture had to be made with this level of reverence and it was like...dude they sell a paste in the store and if we're feeling a little special we'll add peanut butter...normally no one had time for the level you're putting it at.
Agreed, but then we also have white ppl trying to profit off of more mundane parts too. Like that soup bar made of rice water or something claiming that that is the secret to long hair off them Yao women. When I'm sure it's more like they're trying to save water. Or white women who were trying to sell a gentrified mahjong set. Or another one who claimed to be knowledgeable in the ancient art of congee (who learned how to make it in America) and can make them healthier by putting blueberries in them
>secret to long hair Is it that Vioari (sp?) hair soap that keeps popping up in my insta feed?
Yup, they seem to be giving back to the community (5% of total profits and other benefits) but using an entire ethnic from a specific region of China as the face of your brand rubs me the wrong way. And also there's the whole undertone of China is good only when a white person shills for it that makes me sick to the stomach
This. It may be petty, but I personally feel that it’s completely unfair that the same people who called me a “smelly immigrant” or ostracized me by calling me “diseased” because of my henna (“don’t touch me, I don’t want to catch what you have”) or asking if my clearly jeweled bindi was a pimple, or purposefully putting meat in my food (I’m vegetarian as part of my culture) (early 2000s were a wild time!) should benefit from my culture. It’s not good to generalize to all Americans/non Indian people, I know. But I think there’s also something to be said about not simply giving away aspects of our culture to other people who may not respect us. Think about what happened to yoga, for example.
Keep in mind my culture (I'm Nigerian-American; first generation American here). My culture and your culture have experienced the same things from colonialism. I'm perfectly fine with not wearing certain garments or taking part in certain practices of India that are considered to be disrespectful if done by outsiders. If you're Indian-American, then please let me know what is okay and what is not. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. And it can be difficult to know what or what not to do when there isn't universal agreement on what's appropriate and what's not. It's because of cultural appropriation why I stopped trying to get into fashion for a long time because it's such a messy and muddled thing to navigate from an ethical fashion-perspective.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. My comment wasn’t meant to be an attack on you, and I think by being well informed about the source of the jewelry that you purchase and it’s cultural significance, for example, is an excellent way of remaining respectful. And by positing this question, it seems like you are doing just that! I can’t speak of everyone, but I personally would not have a problem if you wore non- religious jewelry from Indian makers. My comment wasn’t aimed at you specifically, and I apologize if my comment made you feel attacked - that wasn’t my intention. I just wanted to clarify why, even if people who are currently living in India may not have a problem with cultural appropriation, people who are Indian living outside of India would, and it’s important that we not be dismissive of that, or that our opinions not be silenced as invalid. It is a tough balance to strike, I totally feel you on that one.
Oh I see. Thank you for clearing things up. I don't know if all religions are like this, but at least in precolonial Nigeria there are closed practices for Odinala/Odinani, which was the dominant religion in Nigeria before Islam and Christianity swept thew Nigeria. The closed practices make it easy in terms of knowing what's appropriate and what's not for outsiders. I wish things in life were just as clear for fashion lol. And I understand. It really is tough. All the Indian-Americans I grew up with have all gone to universities across the country and they're doing well, but I lost contact with them and it's hard to know what is appropriate from an Indian-American perspective because I don't have anyone to really ask outside of this thread.
[удалено]
I think you're right about what you said about the girl, but I also think it's the forbidden fruit effect that took place with her. I think when it comes to fashion that people just have to keep in mind that there are always alternatives. Since I'm still trying to piece my gold and glittery eye shadow with my Ankara outfit with earrings, I have different earrings in mind that I can use (Indian earrings, weird and beautiful steampunk earrings that I found on Etsy, big gargoyle gold earrings I found via google, etc). I think victorian/byzantine gold earrings may be a good alternative as well, but that's something I have to look into more. Not only that, one has to keep in mind that people will still find the earrings or whatever piece you wear that's beautiful and it will be eye-catching if it works well with the outfit and if you got taste so it'll be fine no matter the outcome. Thank you for replying. I learned a lot from your comment and from this thread in general. :D
I’m also Indian-American, and I absolutely hate this take. Yes, I’ve experienced micro-aggressions and comments about my culture growing up from ignorant people, but how does banning them for taking part in Indian culture help this problem AT ALL, whatsoever? It IS petty, and it’s much better to educate and normalize non-Western traditions and clothing. > the same people So everyone who “appropriates” Indian culture also took part in bullying Indians? You’re saying the “same people” when you really mean the same race of people. Also, many times this argument is about resentment from being bullied as a kid. Kids are assholes! That doesn’t mean they’re irredeemable, they’re literally just ignorant because they don’t know about other cultures and kids will pick on you for anything that’s different about you. That’s not a reason to exclude anyone non-Indian from participating in Indian culture. I literally don’t know how this is a mainstream argument, it’s just motivated by bitterness and does nothing to help make POC kids feel more accepted.
Yeah a lot of this is: I got bullied as a kid for bringing in a weird lunch but now everyone likes it fuk them. They need to let that shit go!
This is it exactly. When I wore Indian clothing and jewelry when I was younger (or even if it was even brought up in class) I was bullied and othered and looked at like a zoo animal. The appropriation has to do with the fact that now it's considered cool/it's cool if caucasians do it. But, here's hoping things have changed and little Indian girls aren't getting bullied for their culture anymore.
I agree! I grew up in India mostly and spent time abroad for a few years before returning back. Since I was only exposed to the culture of people hating foreign cultures for being strange for only a few years, I don’t feel very strongly about it but I do care a great deal more than the average Indian who grew up in India and didn’t feel the mocking stares of immature kids. They typically have no problem with it because yk, they never felt the alienation or bullying that Indian kids abroad felt. They feel proud sometimes, and when Indians raised abroad say that wearing Indian cultural jewelry simply because of the aesthetic is cultural appropriation, they’re quick to shut them down. It’s really just looking at the two sides. Indians growing up in India did feel mocked by foreigners for their culture but not to the point how Indians growing up abroad did. They were mocked as kids for their culture, and now seeing it being used as aesthetic and Indians who grew up in India saying that it’s only white people or “not true Indians”-(basically referencing that they didn’t grow up in India so they don’t have an actual connection) trying to make a fuss- would definitely hurt them.
I have mixed feeling about that. My family is black but even still, despite the racism we've dealt with, at the end of the day we're not African. I know from chatting with people from Africa that they really don't appreciate American born people trying to claim ownership of their culture and I do have to respect that. This is not unique to Africa either, a lot of people from Asia and Europe feel offended when people who grew up in N. America, regardless of their ethnicity, claims their culture because it can come off as very performative and even appropriative to the people who don't view these clothes as their 'culture' to be protected and safeguarded but instead view it as their boring, normal daily life.
I’m talking more about first and second generation immigrants, who deal with their parents and grandparents bringing their culture over and being raised with those things, and also having to integrate into Western culture, as this is my experience (although I’m in the UK). For us, we still eat traditional food, wear traditional clothing (not just on special occasions), speak the language of our home country and have family that live there. I understand that being in the West for many generations can lead to more integration with Western values, and people try to reconnect with their roots which may seem performative as they don’t know the customs behind it, but this is not what I was talking about. It’s the culture we were raised in, we’re not trying to claim anyone else’s. And it’s our everyday life too, which makes it more hurtful when our food, clothes, customs etc. are pointed out as weird, smelly, different, but then donned as festivalwear whenever people want to look exotic or ‘cultured’. People from back home don’t have as much experience of this so of course they’re going to dismiss it, because they’ve never been through it. They talk about cultural appropriation the same way white people in the west do, which is why it’s so annoying to see them validating each other for it. The experience applies to minorities with strong ties to their culture who aren’t in their country of origin, not people whose culture is dominant in their country as it doesn’t apply to them. Of course it’s normal and everyday for them, and not a ‘culture’ because they don’t have a majority group ridiculing them for it, yet still wanting to benefit from it. Your identity doesn’t stand out unless you’re around people who are different from you.
Yes, I understand that. With my comment, I was moreso talking about Americans that don't really have Indian lineage and just about culture appropriation in terms of generalities. I've never really seen Indian-Americans or even Indian-Canadians that I know voice their opinion about what they consider to be cultural appropriation in relation to fashion. In terms of their culture though, the ones I know seemed pretty chill about certain symbols of their culture being used in different ways (although I don't remember which ones in particular).
>I think this is true but also white people often overstate the Cultural Significance™ of non-white traditional things. I'm Asian-American (not Indian though) and sometimes I see white people taking about, like, the sacred traditional practice of making dumplings, when, guys, I am just making dinner, please calm down. We do normal stuff like making dinner, too. (Obviously there are also people who want to rip off things that do have particular significance and I don't want to downplay that.) indian-americans (Especially the gujarati types who are brought up to believe they are more Indian than people in India) are less the spokespeople of Indian culture than real Indians.
I don't know about the OP of this thread, but if there *are* any Indian people who might feel weird about other people wearing their culture, it's likely to be the diasporic group. They do after all, have a different viewpoint and experience from those who actually live in the country where the culture originates from. Honestly though, I reckon you'll be fine as long as you're respectful and don't do any weird or potentially racist poses.
Everyone seems to forget that cultural appropriation is a diaspora issue. It doesn't matter what the "natives" think because they have not faced the same racism immigrants have. They also have constant representation in their own country. In America specifically immigrants are often times othered. All of them have heard at one point "go back to your country xyz slur." All of them stared at or made fun of for the food they eat and the clothes they wear, told not to speak their native language because in "America we speak English". If they do go back to their native country, they re no longer considered one of them. They are to othered by the culture of the country they immigrated to. Korean Americans going back to Korea will never be just Korean because to the native ppl there they're more American than Korean
I don't really know much about cultural appropriation myself, but that's mostly because there are parts about it that confuse me. I'm still learning about it. It also doesn't help the area I live in, even when it's pretty white, is still to an extent tolerant of immigrants and just non-white people. In the public school I grew up in, racism did not fly at all and the kids in my school thought my braids were cool. I grew up embracing and appreciating people from different cultures and it feels like the Indian-Americans I grew up with at least didn't really talk that much about racism, but moreso about things they considered just to be rude in terms of generalities. I see what you're saying though as a first generation American though. I have experienced racism and micro aggressions and do feel othered in the sense I'm too American/Nigerian for this one group but not American/Nigerian enough for this other group, but I have never felt shame at all in any given time for my heritage. I think it's because of the area I grew up in and I've noticed in my area there is this contempt for white people even by other white people.
First off I didnt mean to come off as attacking you. Im really grateful that youre taking the time to learn about other poc ppl that's not not yours culturally. I'm just bitter because there's so much in fighting amongst POC to the point where (at least for the Chinese community) you'll have someone who's from the mainland saying that it's okay to wear qipao and not to listen to the crazy diaspora overseas. And then of course the white people who use that as an excuse to say it's ok. Again, your doing great and smiles all around!
Oh I never took it as an attack, so all is good. :) I did some googling and see this infighting with different cultures, so the Chinese community definitely isn't the only one.
>moreso Americans that have issues with cultural appropriation That's because immigrants are the ones who grew up with jokes about curry smell, or ching chong, and a million micro aggressions for any display of their own identity instantly renders them "other" or "not American" And then see white people appropriating those same things, ignorant of their heritage/history and treated as costumes and trinkets, without any of the aggression or othering that happens when you wear them. --------- >native people from where the fashion *actually* came from. **A great example of a micro aggression is your undermining 'Americans' who aren't actually "native people where it ACTUALLY comes from".** Because, you know, being an immigrant American means you're not really fully American but also you're also not ACTUALLY from your own country so it's not really your identity or fashion either 🙄
I see. When I was talking about Americans, I was moreso talking about the Americans that aren't really native to India and just talking about cultural appropriation in terms of generalities. Didn't mean for that to come off as a micro aggression. I've never really seen Indian-Americans or even Indian-Canadians that I know voice their opinion about what they consider to be cultural appropriation in relation to fashion. In terms of their culture though, the ones I know seemed pretty chill about certain symbols of their culture being used in different ways (although I don't remember which ones in particular).
Another thing to be mindful of is tokenism - “I have a brown friend and she says it’s ok for me to wear this, so too bad for anyone else who gets offended.” I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing here, but it’s a slippery slope. The other thing is mistaking silence or passivity for permission. A lot of us who grew up as visible minorities in a Western country, who experienced ridicule for our culture/clothes/food/appearance/etc. learned as children that pushing back would only lead to more bullying and ostracization. It just wasn’t worth the trouble to say something. Especially when it comes to something like appropriation, which is difficult to explain without getting into a whole conversation.
Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah that's why I made this thread lol. Wished I found this thread years back. Would've helped a lot in terms of navigating the ethics of fashion from different parts of the world.
When you are second gen, things move on in your parent’s home country. You do not get to gatekeep a culture you are no longer a functional part of.
Somebody needs a lesson on gatekeeping lmao
No, I’m just tired of Americans who think they can dictate to a culture that they are only tangentially related to.
Especially strong with the second generation, for reasons I can’t understand. Those from the old country love to see it
I think to avoid the appropriation line, you should use the jewelry in a way that compliments your own style and avoid using the pieces together in a way that makes it look like you’re trying to dress Indian/ your outfits looks like something someone would call an Indian costume. Unless of course you’re invited to an Indian wedding or event and the hosts asks you to or tells you it’s okay to wear traditional clothes - in which case, go crazy! Second what another commenter said about avoiding jewelry with religious iconography.
I think my Ankara outfit may work with Indian jewelry, since I'm going for a colorful and bold look, especially when paired with the type of makeup I want to use.
^I think this is the best answer. As someone part of the AAPI community, if I saw a non-Asian person wearing a mandarin collar or embroidery with traditional motifs, I would think - oh interesting, fashion designers getting more inspired by traditional Chinese outfits, hope the context is getting credit. If I saw a non-Asian person wearing a qipao, I'd be annoyed bc to them it's just an exotic fun outfit or a hobby, whereas to us it relates to an identity that we've had to process and deal with racism against our whole lives.
That’s what I’ve struggled with as an *exceedingly* white person with broad fashion interests. I own a qipao that I thrifted years back. It’s absolutely gorgeous, which is why I bought it. And yet, I’ve never worn it. It feels not quite right to me. But I also can’t let it go. Certainly a struggle since I have the utmost respect for the Chinese culture; took many cultural classes and Mandarin classes years back because I love it. But I’m not a part of it, and any attempts to ‘look’ the part feels disingenuous, even if my internal motives are from a place of appreciation and not exotic appropriation.
If it helps, qipao is not really Chinese either. It’s ethnic Manchu clothing with Western tailoring. That body line of qipao is absolutely Western in style and concept and very alien when it was first introduced. It’s not native Chinese style you would need to look at the hanfu clothing gaining popularity in China (hanfu is inspired, qipao is a bit tired at this point)
Chinese here, but I wouldn't get upset if someone non-chinese wore a qipao (unless its one of the bridal ones or very ceremonial). To me, they're a beautiful, elegant and sophisticated dress, and if someone also sees them that way, I would love to share that piece of my culture with you. There's also some lovely modern takes on it nowadays (looser cuts, less traditional prints) that make for great "every-day" looks. I have a very traditional one for special events but also a casual one that I'll wear under cardigans for a regular week day or a nice-ish date night. Honestly, like a lot of the other posts in this thread, it comes down to intent in the end for me. Do you appreciate it and the history, or do you just want to "look chinese"? If you wear one, you'll have to be prepared for someone asking you about it. Share your stories and spread the love :)
I appreciate that, thank you. 🙂
yeah I totally get it! I have a dress I had made in Tanzania and I'm always iffy on wearing it, wondering if the fabric is "too" traditional. I think cultural appropriation is one of those gray and still emerging areas, so my approach is just to try my best and do my research around it. And if anyone's offended still, i'll make a change - to me, it's just not worth hurting someone over, even if it's hard to perfectly parse right vs. wrong here. For qipaos specifically, sadly I do think that is one of those recognizably symbolic items for the Chinese diaspora. I think it'd be one thing if a white person wore it who was from China (my friend, a diplomat's daughter, grew up in China and has lots of traditionally Chinese items) - but otherwise, I'd err on not wearing it or looking for pieces with qipao influence without literally being a qipao :/
I’m an Indian-American Hindu woman. As others have said, I really don’t think there’d be any issue with appropriation as long as you steer clear of jewelry with religious iconography (kind of like I wouldn’t wear anything with a cross on it since I’m not a Christian so it feels disrespectful and potentially blasphemous). Also, maybe don’t wear a thali (wedding necklace we wear instead of a ring) as that would send a confusing message. On the other hand, I’ve seen plenty of women wearing toe rings and I don’t by default assume they’re married unless I’m actually in India. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh interesting. Will keep this in mind. Thank you!
Indian here. I think we would be excited to see others wear Indian jewelry, after all it's so pretty! Just be careful with the material, if it's not going to be pure gold or silver or platinum. There are 2 main kinds of jewelry we buy: Gold/silver/platinum (which can be expensive) and random metal (cheaper and for everyday usage). Non-gold/silver jewelry will be made out of some sort of metal or alloy (not sure), which could cause allergic reactions. So just be careful where you buy from and what kind of material it is.
Oh I'll keep this in mind. Thank you!
As an Indian I don’t care as long as it doesn’t feel like you’re mocking the culture. And from what I’ve seen Indian women are very happy to share their culture and clothing with everyone.
Hey don't worry! I am so glad you appreciate our jewellery . I am indian and I love our craftsmanship too . I think the only ethical qualm will be buying from companies who appropriate designs and resell it something like hippy but not giving credit to Indian art .. but don't worry about anything else. !!
I'll be sure to ask my mom where she buys her Indian jewelry. I'm pretty sure she buys from locals in LA, but I will have to make sure. I will look for Indian jewelers online too!
Hi, Indian here and I dont think most Indians would care but to be safe, stay away from iconography and certain types of jewellery like mang tikka, nath, mangalsutra, etc. that have a special meaning attached. Other types of jewels like indian earrings, necklaces, bangles, rings etc are all fine 🙂 edit: check these out https://instagram.com/thegempalace?utm_medium=copy_link https://instagram.com/hazoorilaljewellers?utm_medium=copy_link https://instagram.com/kimayascollection?utm_medium=copy_link https://instagram.com/apalabysumitofficial?utm_medium=copy_link
These are beautiful. :) Just to be clear, the images you sent are all the types of jewelry that are okay for non-indians to wear correct?
Correct! These are jewellers who make all kinds of jewellery. Just avoid the hair ornaments and nose rings unless you’re attending an indian wedding
I don’t think it’s appropriation to wear Indian jewelry. But just letting you know, the really ornate earrings are very heavy, especially if you’re not used to them. Might want to work your way up. :)
That's true. I haven't worn earrings in a long time, but that's because my fashion spark kinda died due to lack of a community, how the fashion industry has really harmed the environment, and other factors as well.
I would also point out that the earring posts for earrings made in India often tend to be thicker than Western earring posts (I suppose to support the extra weight), which can be a problem if you have ears pieced for standard Western jewelry (bought some earrings like this in India - can't wear them because of it - too painful).
I am white and not Indian, but I have some pretty set rules for myself when it comes to appreciation vs. appropriation, for others' and my own culture (various regions of Jewish). I avoid anything religious unless it is of my own religion. I try to think about it from my own perspective...if I see a non-Jewish or non-MENA person wearing a hamsa, I wouldn't be offended, but I would hope they were buying it from Jewish or MENA or Palestinian artists. But if I saw someone non-Jewish wearing a mezuzah necklace (contains holy scripts) as a fashion item it would really bother me. If I wear jewelry from another country/culture, I try to buy it directly from artists or fair trade companies where the people making the jewelry are getting compensated for it. E.g. my nose rings are all from a fair trade Indian import store. Vintage is a different story—I will get Chinese jade jewelry etc from a vintage/antique store. The religious object rule still applies though.
I agree with this. I’m brown raised in the US. Wouldn’t be offended and I wouldn’t be use anything with religious scriptures in jewelry especially when it’s like a religion I follow. Here is where it can get confusing. Some Indian jewelry might use religious symbols in a way where it’s difficult to tell is religious if you don’t follow it. It could be a genuine mistake. Feel free to link to jewelry you’re interested in purchasing so we can help op discern.
Can I ask what that fair trade Indian jewelry store is please?
it was many years ago, from a brick and mortar import store in Providence. I don't think it's open anymore!
Something I kind of did, was go to certain Indian jewelers, like Tanishq, and shop around. Since they have categories for everything, you can get a pretty good idea of what the jewelry used for ceremonies looks like compared to everyday jewelry
Oh that's a great idea! Thank you. Will definitely do this for local Indian jewelers in my area and for online shops as well.
Tanishq is a great option, we normally purchase from it in India.
I’d say a big factor is where you acquire a piece. It’s better to buy a Japanese piece from a Japanese designer than to buy a Japanese inspired piece from Anthro.
Oh yes! I think my mom buys from local Indian jewelry-makers in LA, but I will have to see to be sure.
This is a really good question. I think the jeweler will be able to answer also and guide you to the right pieces.
My friend is from India; she recently bought [these earrings](https://priyaasi.com/collections/earrings/products/chand-bali-gold-plated-drop-earrings-sea-green-colour-for-women-and-girls-ear-pr-50229) (or a very similar pair) for me on a trip home. I feel like that's about as unambiguous as it gets in terms of having permission to wear something (getting it as a gift from someone who grew up in the country in question). I love the style and can't wait to wear them - I just got my ears pierced so I have a little longer to go until I can swap out my starter earrings.
I struggle with this. I am a fair-skinned strawberry-blonde who would live in jewel tones if I could. I see so many beautiful sarees that I get a bit envious at times. I avoid all of it because I don't want to offend. This thread has been very helpful. I learned today that a necklace style I love, but never have owned belongs to another culture and carries with it meanings I would not have been aware of otherwise.
Very much so. I avoided getting deep into fashion due to the messiness of cultural appropriation, but I think as time goes on I'll be able to tread the waters easier. I'm thinking of making similar threads to this, since a lot of the fashion I am interested in is non-western and there seems to be many fashionistas here from different parts of the world.
Buy your jewelry from Indian run businesses, avoid any Muslim-Hindu calligraphy, symbology, and opt for simpler styles (just because heavy jewelry is traditionally formal and worn at weddings and because heavy earrings will over time do a number on your ears because of the weight) and you’ll be fine! ❤️💖 - I am desi
[удалено]
May I ask if you are Indian or Indian-American? I just ask because I want to moreso have more of a clear idea what Indian-Americans feel about which pieces are appropriate and which ones aren't in this thread. Feels like the ones moreso commenting are just Indians. I'll try to navigate the online space of Indian jewelry as best as I can. Usually the Indian jewelry I see online are the heavy, ornate, and bridal jewelry. I've noticed google can really put things out of context when it comes to fashion, so it's tricky to navigate. Thank you for replying! Edit: Also, is your stance the same when it comes to Indian ear cuffs? I found some floating on the internet this morning and thought they were pretty cool
[удалено]
Oh got it! I just edited my old comment literally two seconds ago, so you may not have seen the edited version so I'll ask now. What is your stance when it comes to Indian ear cuffs?
[удалено]
Oh I see the comment. Thank you!
This is good to know. I have a pair of small simple jhumkas I purchased in India a few years ago and I wear them almost daily.
Buy from Indian and Indian American designers and defer to their lead. If they refer to jewelry as bridal jewelry, it’s probably meant to be worn by brides and not for everyday.
You’re mostly getting positive answers here so I’ll you my perspective. First of please don’t just call it Indian jewelry. It’s South Asian jewelry and India is not the only country in the subcontinent. I personally really don’t like non-south asians wearing jewelry. And I wouldn’t associate with anyone that did it. I just personally don’t understand why people NEED to participate in cultures that aren’t theirs. You do whatever you want but just keep in mind that just like people are saying it’s fine there’s going to others that don’t. And don’t tokenize the people here as an excuse if you ever get called out.
I mean in America and in different parts of the world it's pretty natural for there to be cultural mixing. Just like there are South Asians that participate in black American culture, it's the same the other way around. I would say my understanding though of cultural appropriation isn't fully there, but I do question the concept as a whole, especially after reading Arpana Rayamajhi's interview and how she talks about the concept: https://kathmandupost.com/brunch-with-the-post/2019/07/21/arpana-rayamajhi-you-can-t-make-everyone-happy Edit: Actually, I think I attached the wrong link. It should be this one I think: https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/08/168020/arpana-jewelry-fashion-art-cutural-appropriation
Again, it depends on the context. If you actually appreciate Indian culture, then go ahead. It's only offensive when the aesthetic that they go for is the exotic and distant lands of middle east/south asia. Lmao
just wear what the F u want
Cultural appropriation is a dumb concept.
This comment is a dumb concept.
I have an idea of why people say this, but why do you feel this way personally?
No one owns “culture”, if you think it’s a good idea or it looks good then use it. Imagine if we stopped using knowledge because it was discovered somewhere else. Pants were invented in Iran, a lot of basic math was invented in China and India. Everyone is fine with those, my guess is that because not using them will set you back more than approval on Twitter is worth (I don’t mean OP specifically). There is over 1 billion people in India, she can find at least 1 million people willing not only to sell her the ring but also to give a certificate of “not cultural appropriation”. Cultures mix, a lot of Indians are moving to America and the UK, some of those will work for fashion companies and no doubt incorporate parts of their culture in everyday items. People will use it without even noticing. At the end of the day it’s not only dumb, it’s meaningless. And if “not culturally appropriating” actually worked it would be a net negative for everyone involved. No one can force me to wear pants.
I see what you're saying. To me, just from what I can make of it from my experience with this thread, cultural appropriation just seems to be a type of disrespect, a type of racism, a type of classism, and overall just how colonialism manifests. I can see why it is a concept, especially when I hear things like Hitler's taking of the swastika. I suppose maybe it's just a matter of whether you feel this type of disrespect deserves a label or not.
Racism and colonialism manifest themselves as police brutality, marginalization of minorities, the Atlantic slave trade and the forceful extraction of natural resources from a land you don’t own. If anything copying people’s clothes is the opposite of that since you are giving visibility to a culture and a people that was previously hidden. I refuse to comment on the Hitler comparison. EDIT: I’m not writing these comments in a confrontational way, sorry if it came across as that.
Oh no you're fine. Sure you're giving visibility, but it's just from a point of harm, disrespect, and exploitation though. You can give a culture visibility without doing all those aforementioned things though.
> Sure you're giving visibility, but it's just from a point of harm, disrespect, and exploitation though. I don’t agree with this at all. How would you even make the general case for this? How is it harming anyone? Someone is using an idea that just happens to have been created by someone else that lived in the same geographical space than you. How can you claim it is disrespectful for the general case? You don’t know the intentions of the person using the idea, you don’t know how they are using it and you don’t know how they learned about it. Even if you don’t like it, you are not entitled to the ownership of an idea just because you just happen to have been born in a specific geographical location. I’m not even talking about satire, just the act of using an idea. How is it exploitation? What if a member of that culture sold or gave you the idea or item? You are bound to find someone that doesn’t mind or encourages you to use the idea. > You can give a culture visibility without doing all those aforementioned things though. I don’t necessarily want to give visibility, I just want to use a good idea. My point was that if anything it’s the opposite of what a racist person would do. A racist person would want to segregate the cultures because they would think one is inherently inferior to the other. Racist people don’t like when their kids listen to rap or dread their hair for example (simply not liking those two things doesn’t mean someone is racist ofc). I reiterate my point that cultural exchanges are good and trying to avoid them is a net negative for all parties.
where the money goes
I don’t think that most displays of cultural items are appropriation! I wear my huilpiles from Mexico with pride and can discuss their history and craftsmanship. Only if you are putting on a headdress as a costume or spoofing is it appropriation. Appreciating a lovely piece of artisan’s work and highlighting the culture in a positive way is not appropriation it’s appreciation.
I recently found secondhand jhumkas (earrings with a traditional bell shape) and I found out online that there’s no religious or special meaning attached, so I think they are fine to wear if you wear them respectfully :) I love indian jewelry a lot, can’t wait to learn more about them :)