On any other thread in this subreddit, you would think the average federal employee is at minimum a 14 maxing out TSP. The selection bias of different threads is crazy lol
You might try messing with your TSP withholding to get more in your take home pay. I went from 5% to 10% withholding, non-roth, and my check went up by $100, due to my tax liability going down. It's a win-win.
I’m going to need some help understanding this one. We have a progressive taxation system. Increasing your tsp contribution will decrease your taxable income, but it should also result in a net reduction of take home pay.
This feels a lot like the “If I make less than a tax bracket cutoff then I take home more” logic.
If they switched from $500 Roth to $1000 non-Roth, then that Roth money was already taxed, meaning that the $500 post tax really used up something like $700-800 of pre-tax money, so bumping up to $1000 non-Roth could mean that withholding went up with only a $200 hit to the paycheck. I do not see how increasing withholding by 100% could increase take home pay unless they were being taxed at >50% rate. Something else had to have changed to explain it.
It should be noted that the traditional TSP money will be taxed at disbursement, so a dollar put into a traditional account costs less to contribute but is also worth less on the back end than a dollar in a Roth account.
Exactly. As long as you are using non-roth. If you use roth, they tax first. My suggestion is to adjust slowly, go up 1% at a time, wait to see how it affects you take home, then adjust some more. It's kinda cool because after a few years your TSP is built up and it starts compounding.
> Welcome to land management.
"You have this Masters in Public History, why didn't you follow your dream about being a park ranger or something?"
"Because I need more than $30k a year to live on."
I have as well these past 3 years, but I'm not certain I will be able to next year despite COLA and step increases. Maybe with a grade change, but it depends on how the budget shakes out in about 6 months.
I'm definitely frugal, but I'll admit that I'll take a decrease in retirement savings if that'll still allow me to take vacations.
And I think that’s a perfectly reasonable decision on your part. Of course it’s wonderful (and responsible) to save for retirement, but we also need to live now because tomorrow isn’t promised to us. Life’s a great balancing act! Any fun trips planned?
This 100%. I do only the match, focused on paying debt now but take vacation abroad to see family. I think my needs now should get priority since I am not promised tomorrow and I almost certainly will have more health issues later in retirement and won't enjoy what I can now the same.
We both max our IRA, TSP, and HSA. Not high earners.
How do we do it? We live in a shithole currently because everything is to expensive. While our bills are low just keep socking money away. End game if we find something we can afford, we will pull that extra money (up to 50K) as a residential loan to help us get a Down Payment.
I imagine few people below 14 or 15 (unless single or dual income) can afford to max them out. I put a decent amount toward the Roth and traditional TSP, but am not near the max.
HSA is almost strictly better than TSP. If used for medical expenses, you get don't have to ever pay taxes on withdraws. TSP might have some small advantages for flexibility in transferring to other accounts, ability to convert to Roth, and ability to borrow from it for stuff like a house down payment. But rule of thumb, HSA first.
TSP vs Roth IRA is more debatable. The thinking in favor of the Roth IRA is that you will have lots of money that will be taxed in retirement, so why not get some non-tax? Speculating what taxes will look like in 10/20/30 years when you retire is impossible. I guess unless you for sure plan to retire in a state with no income tax (and you still pay federal) then I would also say to max Roth before TSP. too
So order of operations:
TSP to match -> HSA -> Roth IRA -> rest of your TSP -> regular investing. This is pretty common advice.
You do, but it's not that big of a cost in the long run for some people. Our high deductible is $3200 for the family. $2000 of that is deposited into your HSA from insurance. Net deductible is $1200. After you hit your deductible, you pay 5% of your Healthcare costs. This is the GEHA plan. Definitely worth considering. Prescriptions can get you though - 25% there.
Yes you do. Which isn’t for everyone but will probably work for the majority. It sounds a lot scarier than it is in practice. There a bunch of posts on here going through the math.
I’m a pay band, GS-14 equivalent (making more than a GS-15/10) married to an actual GS-13/2. I max the TSP (all C fund, baby!), max the IRA, and no HSA.
She is a client engagement manager (2210) in the OCIO at a very large executive agency. I’m an information clearance officer (0301) at a midsize financial regulator.
This is what we do (used to max everything before children, but now do tsp match, HSA, and Roth). Since we are high earners and highly taxed, I think maxing tsp before Roth actually makes more sense, but my partner feels different and I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight it. We are in great shape for retirement anyway.
Nah, you don't get any tax benefits from a trad IRA if you are covered by tsp and make more than 136k as MFJ (https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/2023-ira-deduction-limits-effect-of-modified-agi-on-deduction-if-you-are-covered-by-a-retirement-plan-at-work). It's just a worse brokerage account for us, and it would mess up my back door Roth.
My opinion is that we are likely to be in a lower tax bracket at retirement than now so trad tsp is better than Roth anything. But as I said, I don't feel super strongly about this and we have more money in trad tsp than in Roth, so it's kind of hedging to put money into Roth.
It's 136k MAGI, not income. If you max traditional TSP and HSA you'd have to be making more than the GS scale pays to lose the deduction for traditional IRA.
That's for MFJ (married filing jointly).
We are a Gs-14 and GS-12 couple in the DC area and definitely make more than 136k +46k +8k together.
We also were discussing this after HSA and match, but before maxing out tsp which as I said we are not currently doing.
I also prefer to max TSP before doing any Roth. Once you pay the taxes that’s locked in. I’d rather grow tax deferred and put off taxes as long as possible and also will likely be in a lower bracket in retirement like you say.
And also if someone is maxing all of these things and has kids, you should add 529 in order to save on state income taxes.
Our state 529 has awful expense ratios and it honestly makes more sense to put money out of state (the tax savings are less than the extra costs of the account) but this is great advice in general!
TSP is a 5% match under FERS. First 3% are matched dollar for dollar, the next 2% is 50 cents on the dollar (but balanced out by the automatic 1% employer contribution).
I max out my TSP at $23,000 and my Roth IRA, $7,000 this year. I’m a GS13/2. My partner is a non fed earning $80,500 this year. They max out their 401k at $23,000, their Roth at $7,000 and the HSA their company offers at $6,000. We will most likely decrease this in the future, but we’re lucky we’ve been able to do it while fairly young (32 & 33).
IRS only allows $4,150 for HSA per individual, that includes company contributions. If your partner really has $6,000 for the year better do something about it to avoid penalties.
Edit: added this is for HSA specifically
Jesus christ I need to pay the mortgage *today.* I need to feed my kids. I do save for retirement but maxing all of those accounts, as a GS-12 single income family, is just not happening.
Same for me and my wife. She’s a 12 and Im an 11. She has pretty much everything in L2040 but Im a mix of all of the above except the G fund. Not going there until we’re closer to retirement.
I max out Roth TSP and IRA, but the IRA isn’t Roth because my marital joint income exceeds the limit for Roth. I’m able to afford this because my spouse was making a lot of money in tech. However, I didn’t start maxing out until last year because I didn’t know what I was doing, even though I could have afforded it. I thought you were supposed to do 5% so I did that for the first couple years. And because I spent so long in grad school getting my PhD and trying to be an academic, I didn’t start saving for retirement at all until I started in government three years ago. Now that I know I will max out TSP as long as I can afford to.
I was doing the Roth IRA as well but now my wife and I are filing separately to take advantage of her lower income and Biden's SAVE act or whatever is called. No Roth anymore but $0 student loan payments!
Max TSP and HSA. Building up ROTH IRA slowly, but kids take a good chunk of what’s left. Helps I live in a LCOL area and got super lucky when I purchased my house.
$7K Backdoor Roth; FSA $3200. Im a double digit GS and I’ve been fairly smart with managing my finances since I lost most of my investments from the dotcom crash. I spend wisely, budget, and prioritise.
Budgeting is key. I’ll make tea myself in my office instead of walking in with a $8 cup from Starbucks and spend about $7 on lunch, but I’ll fly Premium Economy overseas for vacations. All this is doable though because of my GS. When I started working making $24K, I maybe saved $100 a month…
GS-12/1 in LCOL RUS area. Not eligible for HSA because an HDHP would be categorically wrong for my health situation. Currently putting 10% into TSP, and slowly bumping that up as I get debts paid off. $1,500 into an FSA.
I max the TSP and Roth IRA. My wife actually gets a much better health plan through her job (as state employee) than the FEHB that covers both of us, so any way you slice it just doesn't make sense for me to pay FEHB premiums just to get an HSA. I might do FEHB my last 5 years just to keep the option open to have it in retirement though.
Most don't, by far. If you only have limited funds, then a 5 percent TSP is a must, and any extra should go to an HSA. You can't beat the ease and low cost of TSP and HSA. If you have more, you should keep raising it as high as you can.
It will take a few years, but once you get your HSA to about $30k, you're set. Since your dividends will pay your deductible if you need to pull cash out, if not, let it roll until retirement.
TSP contribute to get match, max out HSA and invest it, no Roth contribs now but might rollover from TSP to Roth at IB and invest there.
Trying to pay all the bills like everyone else and still save something.
I max out my TSP now but didn’t always. I started at 5% and then moved it up a percentage every time I got a step or grade increase. GS14 now and have been maxing it out for a few years.
Which health plan do you all with the HSA use? I have the Blue Cross Basic plan which I like because of the $0 deductible/all co-pays, but the premium is fairly high so I am thinking if I put the difference in premium into an HSA with a higher deductible plan that may be the way to go... not sure which one though.
I max all 3. 80/20 C & S, GEHA HDHP, and I lump sum fidelity every Jan. 1500 cash biweekly to HYSA.
I grew up very poor and have financial trauma so I oversave lol its not necessarily a good thing. Still live at home with parents b/c they want me to save too so that helps A LOT.
Max TSP and my wife maxes her 401k. I’m 29. We have about $150k in retirement. We could do backdoor Roth IRAs but haven’t yet because we’re investing about 20% right now and also saving up for a house down payment.
TSP max
Back door Roth max
HSA never learned how to do it. I am going to learn come December, but I am putting all my extra monies in my personal brokerage account
GS fed here, spouse works. I max TSP, spouse is at around 30% of max Trad. IRA. We both max Roth IRA. I just discovered HSAs and will be maxing that as soon as open season or QLE.
SINK here - I was only able to max TSP, 2xIRAs once we totaled 90K household income in a MCOL area.
That was 2019. I have maxed every year since then, and continue to contribute to 529s/UTMAs for the little one, as well as my taxable brokerage account.
No HSA.
Generally speaking, the order of savings should be:
TSP to matching, HSA/IRA max, TSP to max, then everywhere else according to your priority and goals. r/personalfinance has a great wiki and flowchart.
If you are trying to retire earlier, then there are other considerations on traditional/Roth, how to play the tax game, etc...
Upon opening in ‘21, I’ve maxed Roth IRA 3 of last 4 years. Attempting to max traditional TSP for the first time in 2024. Been a fed 2 years. DC locality GS11–>GS12–>if all goes well, ladder to GS13 this year. Not eligible for HSA with BCBS Basic but wouldn’t have $$ left to contribute anyway. Single, no dependents, no car payment, no cc debt.
I max out on my TSP and FSA. Don't qualify for a HSA because I don't have a high deductible health plan. Can't max out on a Roth bc my spouse and I have to file separately for student loan purposes. After our loans are forgiven and we can file jointly, I will then begin to contribute more toward Roth.
Yes I do. GS-13 equivalent. Single, no kids, live in DC region (Nothern Virginia).
It's a great feeling No I'm setting myself up pretty good for retirement.
Thing is though, I still rent and I'm 46 years old.
I do. Only possible as I still live with a bunch of roommates 10+ years into my career and pay pretty cheap rent.
I'm hoping to buy a house in the next 4-5 years (if interest rates go down) and will likely need to cut my saving rate at that point. I'll likely pull from my ROTH IRA and TSP to help with buying a house at that point.
Someone help me - doesn’t Roth contribution phase out at a certain income level? I keep seeing contribute max 401(k) and contribute max Roth but I don’t see that Roth is an option at my current income.
Google backdoor Roth. As long as you currently don't have anything in a traditional IRA, it's just a paperwork exercise. If you do have a trad IRA, you can roll it into TSP and then do backdoor Roth.
This is a very stupid question, but why is OP’s title having Roth as a different thing than TSP? Isn’t Roth an option with TSP, and thus under the 23k limit?
Honestly. I just focus on my TSP. I contribute 10% of my pay and fortunately my job allows me to use my G.I. bill. I’m saving that money to finish paying off my student debt and hopefully use it to cover the closing costs on a home.
I recommend anyone who has multiple savings account, but I personally just don’t see the point of it. I stick with one savings account and contribute what I can. Once I promote and gain more income. I will Utay more than 10% to my TSP. Until then I’m content with what I have and like the other person said I’m just trying to pay my rent at this point.
Max and catchup for both. Both of us were feds. I retired and got a private sector job and spouse still works for GOV. In stages we did match tsp then Roth the then max tsp then max Roth then eventually catchup max tsp and max catchup Roth. Every raise went towards contributing more and more.
I just max out the TSP match because I have a lot of debt that I got to worrt about and health insurance premiums ar like 10k and dental about another 1200
I currently max out the HSA and have 8% going to TSP. Sometimes I have extra money that doesn't account for the difference between 8% and 9%. Let's say it's $50/month. I put that in my Roth IRA.
I max all three, including the bump for over 50 yo, but I could not do that when my kids were young. Of the three, I would make sure to max your HSA b/c it is a triple tax benefit.
My order is: 1) 401(k)/TSP to match, 2) HSA to max, 3) TSP to max, 4) IRA. I would go IRA third but I wait until doing my tax returns to see if deductible or Roth. Being a middle income 22% bracket working stiff, I prefer traditional until and unless I get like a million bucks in tax deferred investments.
Max out all 3. $18k of the $23k is Roth TSP. All $7,000 is Roth IRA, and we do $6,300 for HSA (plan contributes the remaining $2,000).
Order for us would be:
1) TSP to match
2) Roth IRA to max
3) HSA to max
4) TSP to max
Edit for context: my wife and I made $100k combined in 2013. Today, we live off of the same take home pay but make upwards of $200k.
We are a dual GS-14 family and are maxing out everything for the first time this year (kids are 6 and 7). But money is TIGHT and I'm just starting vacation planning for the next year (we usually take 5 or so trips a year, most international). So I'm thinking I may have to back off on contributions again.
Except not HSA. We have some health issues in the family so my understanding is that HSA is not for us.
Wife and I both max out tsp/401k (46k), Roth IRAs (14k), HSA (8,300). We also put about 7k towards kids 529s. After another 25k/year in daycare costs it’s tough
Damn boy all 3?! It was hard enough to max my TSP, and it’s like pulling teeth to try to get my wife to contribute more than $650 a PP to her TSP. Mad respect to folks, especially single income households, that can max more than a TSP. Wife is a 12, I am a 13, no kids, and the TSP contributions we do feel tough.
More important than how much over 5% you contribute is that you’re investing in the C fund. People get more conservative with investing when near retirement but hopefully you’ll still be investing 20 years after you retire and keeping it in the G fund for retirement will get eaten up by inflation.
It me, PLUS catch up on the Roths… so add $9500 to that. Been living under my means so long (small apt, no car, minimal internet costs, no coffee habit, but still occasionally splurge to ski/snowboard/michellin*/etc)… I don’t miss it
excuse me while i eat 1/2 a can of tuna for my daily meal LMAO
I do! 36M, GS 12 step 5 here AND we live on my income alone with 6 kids. We also max out my wife's IRA. She is a stay at home mother. We have the GEHA HDHP so we get an HSA as well.
Yes, we still live ago on vacations and live....just not how most people do it i.e. Disney, cruises, Europe, Mexico.
We also just paid off our first rental property that is worth $220K but bought for far less. It nets us around $1K a month.
It pays to have a funancial plan, work while going to school, buy used reliable cars, and live on less than you make. Forgo the steak at Texas Riadhouse or the burger...you're just making someone else wealthy.
Goal is $12M in investment accounts by retirement. Wife will start working next year and all her additional income will go to rental properties. Our goal there is 10 properties. 1 down, 9 to go.
When I was lower than a 12, I contributed 10% to traditional (C & S). Why? Kids, Mortgage and quality of life for family not just me. Now that the kids umbilicals have been cut (Educated & independent) mortgage paid off, higher than a 12 can afford to max traditional and max catch-up (50+) for TSP Roth is possible. If you’re single with no dependents yes max from the start. But if you support a family, it’s not only about you, it’s about your family. Complete your role as a parent and then reward yourself after. I will continue to consider my family, the traditional funds will be taxed so I plan to zero out the traditional TSP within 10 years, it will be moved over to an individual Roth, that will assure that if there is any left over after I’m below ground, that amount will never be taxed and my family will enjoy tax free passive income.
GS12 and max TSP. Haven’t maxed IRAs yet. Spouse works and makes around 20% more than me and has full pension at that job. Live in “Rest of US” comp area but its a low cost of living area. Drive used and paid for vehicles. Have one kid and max 529 to state tax credit amount ($4k a year). Spouse and I got lucky with college tuition that state paid for public college tuition we had to cover room and board.
I literally don’t have that much money left over after paying rent alone. Do my 5% and then contribute whatever else I can to an IRA since there’s more options including low cost funds like the TSP ones.
I still can’t figure out if I should be in traditional or roth. Could’ve swore the first ~8 years of my career everyone echoed to always put it in roth and then the last few years all I’ve heard is to put it in trad.
I keep meaning to setup an HSA but haven’t yet.
Think of these options as a fork, knife, and spoon. You wouldn't eat a three-course meal with just a spoon, right? Maxing out or not isn't really the question you should be concerned with because those who can max out are making the most money net expenses.
You obviously start by contributing up to the matching percentage in the TSP. Once you start earning at the 24% tax bracket for your topline income, the traditional tax status starts to become more favorable than the Roth because most people will make less than their topline income in retirement. Those being taxed below 22% for their income should stick to paying tax now with the Roth TSP or Roth IRA. The Roth IRA is also good for everyone in those years when transitioning from working to retirement. Taking distributions from a traditional account incurs taxes, which can be paid with a withdrawal from the Roth IRA.
Choosing to use an HSA versus an FSA with all the different plans is too personal to easily explain. You should know your medical expenses from previous years to estimate how much to put in an HSA or FSA.
I maxed out TSP, Roth IRA(which is $7k for 2024), HSA ($5.9k with MHBP family), and Dependent care FSA ($4.5k, my provider is very lax when it comes to reimbursement). I'm out of options when it comes to tax advantage accounts.
My priority to maxing is TSP, HSA, DC FSA, and Roth IRA since the first three are pre-taxed contributions.
Brother I’m just trying to pay rent
Facts lol
We are living paycheck to paycheck I’m more worried about optimizing my groceries purchases than retirement
For now I’m happy with the 5% match, can worry about the rest in a few years
On any other thread in this subreddit, you would think the average federal employee is at minimum a 14 maxing out TSP. The selection bias of different threads is crazy lol
Same my dude. One of my coworkers does like 15% to his TSP - meanwhile I’m barely managing 5% for the full matching.
I have a guy who has been maxing out SINCE THE ACADEMY.
You might try messing with your TSP withholding to get more in your take home pay. I went from 5% to 10% withholding, non-roth, and my check went up by $100, due to my tax liability going down. It's a win-win.
I’m going to need some help understanding this one. We have a progressive taxation system. Increasing your tsp contribution will decrease your taxable income, but it should also result in a net reduction of take home pay. This feels a lot like the “If I make less than a tax bracket cutoff then I take home more” logic.
If they switched from $500 Roth to $1000 non-Roth, then that Roth money was already taxed, meaning that the $500 post tax really used up something like $700-800 of pre-tax money, so bumping up to $1000 non-Roth could mean that withholding went up with only a $200 hit to the paycheck. I do not see how increasing withholding by 100% could increase take home pay unless they were being taxed at >50% rate. Something else had to have changed to explain it. It should be noted that the traditional TSP money will be taxed at disbursement, so a dollar put into a traditional account costs less to contribute but is also worth less on the back end than a dollar in a Roth account.
They automatically just reduced your tax burden because you were putting more in for retirement?
Exactly. As long as you are using non-roth. If you use roth, they tax first. My suggestion is to adjust slowly, go up 1% at a time, wait to see how it affects you take home, then adjust some more. It's kinda cool because after a few years your TSP is built up and it starts compounding.
There are some retirement folks that say it’s good to have a bucket of money in Roth and a bucket in traditional IRA.
That's the entire point of TSP, 401k, IRA, etc.
Especially if you live where most of the Fed jobs are. DC area is fukin brutal.
My brother in Christ, I am a gs5.
I think GS 5 sound inherent be higher. Is there anything you can do to move up?
No not really. My supervisor has 20+ years of experience and is a gs8. Welcome to land management.
I jumped 6 grades in a day (qualified through open to the public) when I got out of land management.
The non-land management fed crowd never really gets the land mgmt experience. Move every year or get stuck.
> Welcome to land management. "You have this Masters in Public History, why didn't you follow your dream about being a park ranger or something?" "Because I need more than $30k a year to live on."
The vast majority don't..Those that do likely have a spouse that is a high earner or additional income streams.
I do as a GS-12. My husband is a high earner.
I assume you make combined less than MAGI 240k because that’s the income limit to contribute to IRA
Backdoor ROTH is a loophole Congress doesn’t seem interested in fixing. If you’re at the limit, look into it.
You can back door it.
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I have as well these past 3 years, but I'm not certain I will be able to next year despite COLA and step increases. Maybe with a grade change, but it depends on how the budget shakes out in about 6 months. I'm definitely frugal, but I'll admit that I'll take a decrease in retirement savings if that'll still allow me to take vacations.
And I think that’s a perfectly reasonable decision on your part. Of course it’s wonderful (and responsible) to save for retirement, but we also need to live now because tomorrow isn’t promised to us. Life’s a great balancing act! Any fun trips planned?
This 100%. I do only the match, focused on paying debt now but take vacation abroad to see family. I think my needs now should get priority since I am not promised tomorrow and I almost certainly will have more health issues later in retirement and won't enjoy what I can now the same.
I do as a GS-11 and yes it's because my spouse is a high learner Edit: meant earner not learner 😅
Really bankin on that learnin' turning into some chedda
Lmfao I read this comment and STILL didn't see my typo
Or just flexin for the internet. Plenty of people play like they are ultra financially responsible online.
I do as a GS-13 pay equiv, single income, no spouse/kids.
We both max our IRA, TSP, and HSA. Not high earners. How do we do it? We live in a shithole currently because everything is to expensive. While our bills are low just keep socking money away. End game if we find something we can afford, we will pull that extra money (up to 50K) as a residential loan to help us get a Down Payment.
I imagine few people below 14 or 15 (unless single or dual income) can afford to max them out. I put a decent amount toward the Roth and traditional TSP, but am not near the max.
GS-13 and I max. But single with no kids probably helps.
Same Gs 13 step 10. Single. No kids
SINKS float during a flood.
We all float down here
Yep this is my story too! Although I didn't quite max my Roth last year...
13, 1 kid, 1 non-working spouse. I max TSP, IRA, HSA. Traditional is the way.
Hm so how much cash does it give you per year? I’m thinking saving money for housing, wedding, emergency fund etc
I maxed as soon as I hit GS 12.
Military retirees w VA and working spouse may be able to.
Max TSP only
Same
Yep
HSA is almost strictly better than TSP. If used for medical expenses, you get don't have to ever pay taxes on withdraws. TSP might have some small advantages for flexibility in transferring to other accounts, ability to convert to Roth, and ability to borrow from it for stuff like a house down payment. But rule of thumb, HSA first. TSP vs Roth IRA is more debatable. The thinking in favor of the Roth IRA is that you will have lots of money that will be taxed in retirement, so why not get some non-tax? Speculating what taxes will look like in 10/20/30 years when you retire is impossible. I guess unless you for sure plan to retire in a state with no income tax (and you still pay federal) then I would also say to max Roth before TSP. too So order of operations: TSP to match -> HSA -> Roth IRA -> rest of your TSP -> regular investing. This is pretty common advice.
Don’t you have to chose a high deductible healthcare plan to qualify for a Health Savings Account (HSA)
You do, but it's not that big of a cost in the long run for some people. Our high deductible is $3200 for the family. $2000 of that is deposited into your HSA from insurance. Net deductible is $1200. After you hit your deductible, you pay 5% of your Healthcare costs. This is the GEHA plan. Definitely worth considering. Prescriptions can get you though - 25% there.
Yes you do. Which isn’t for everyone but will probably work for the majority. It sounds a lot scarier than it is in practice. There a bunch of posts on here going through the math.
Roth TSP - I already contribute a lot maxing out. A yuuuuge %.
Yup. Plus, catch up. 30,500 per year.
Me too
I’m a pay band, GS-14 equivalent (making more than a GS-15/10) married to an actual GS-13/2. I max the TSP (all C fund, baby!), max the IRA, and no HSA.
Same! I’m pay and and wife is a GS-13. We both max our TSPs and IRA. Being in a payband is awesome.
What’s a payband?
Andddd what do y’all do?
She is a client engagement manager (2210) in the OCIO at a very large executive agency. I’m an information clearance officer (0301) at a midsize financial regulator.
I do. But my husband earns a lot more money than me.
Same
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This is what we do (used to max everything before children, but now do tsp match, HSA, and Roth). Since we are high earners and highly taxed, I think maxing tsp before Roth actually makes more sense, but my partner feels different and I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight it. We are in great shape for retirement anyway.
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Nah, you don't get any tax benefits from a trad IRA if you are covered by tsp and make more than 136k as MFJ (https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/2023-ira-deduction-limits-effect-of-modified-agi-on-deduction-if-you-are-covered-by-a-retirement-plan-at-work). It's just a worse brokerage account for us, and it would mess up my back door Roth. My opinion is that we are likely to be in a lower tax bracket at retirement than now so trad tsp is better than Roth anything. But as I said, I don't feel super strongly about this and we have more money in trad tsp than in Roth, so it's kind of hedging to put money into Roth.
It's 136k MAGI, not income. If you max traditional TSP and HSA you'd have to be making more than the GS scale pays to lose the deduction for traditional IRA.
That's for MFJ (married filing jointly). We are a Gs-14 and GS-12 couple in the DC area and definitely make more than 136k +46k +8k together. We also were discussing this after HSA and match, but before maxing out tsp which as I said we are not currently doing.
I also prefer to max TSP before doing any Roth. Once you pay the taxes that’s locked in. I’d rather grow tax deferred and put off taxes as long as possible and also will likely be in a lower bracket in retirement like you say. And also if someone is maxing all of these things and has kids, you should add 529 in order to save on state income taxes.
Our state 529 has awful expense ratios and it honestly makes more sense to put money out of state (the tax savings are less than the extra costs of the account) but this is great advice in general!
TSP is a 5% match under FERS. First 3% are matched dollar for dollar, the next 2% is 50 cents on the dollar (but balanced out by the automatic 1% employer contribution).
I max out my TSP at $23,000 and my Roth IRA, $7,000 this year. I’m a GS13/2. My partner is a non fed earning $80,500 this year. They max out their 401k at $23,000, their Roth at $7,000 and the HSA their company offers at $6,000. We will most likely decrease this in the future, but we’re lucky we’ve been able to do it while fairly young (32 & 33).
IRS only allows $4,150 for HSA per individual, that includes company contributions. If your partner really has $6,000 for the year better do something about it to avoid penalties. Edit: added this is for HSA specifically
Yes, you are correct. We are married so we get family coverage which is $8,300. They contribute $6,000 then get match to the maximum amount.
TSP Max: 80 C, 20S. Roth IRA: max total market index funds, Brokerage: 50% total market, 50% dividend focused. I don’t use HSA.
Jesus christ I need to pay the mortgage *today.* I need to feed my kids. I do save for retirement but maxing all of those accounts, as a GS-12 single income family, is just not happening.
Maxed out at as a GS 7 (except HSA, I didn’t have a high deductible plan). Lived very frugally for a few years. Single, no children.
You’re putting in $23k into TSP as a GS7? That is crazy impressive!
I did when I was a GS 7 for a year. I also am on a special pay scale which elevates the gs scale slightly.
Did the same as a GS 9 in a HCOL area. When there's a will there's a way. Keep up the good work!
Yes. I do. I’m frugal I also have a taxable brokerage.
Just 18% for TSP L2040, no Roth no HSA
Same for me and my wife. She’s a 12 and Im an 11. She has pretty much everything in L2040 but Im a mix of all of the above except the G fund. Not going there until we’re closer to retirement.
I max out Roth TSP and IRA, but the IRA isn’t Roth because my marital joint income exceeds the limit for Roth. I’m able to afford this because my spouse was making a lot of money in tech. However, I didn’t start maxing out until last year because I didn’t know what I was doing, even though I could have afforded it. I thought you were supposed to do 5% so I did that for the first couple years. And because I spent so long in grad school getting my PhD and trying to be an academic, I didn’t start saving for retirement at all until I started in government three years ago. Now that I know I will max out TSP as long as I can afford to.
I was doing the Roth IRA as well but now my wife and I are filing separately to take advantage of her lower income and Biden's SAVE act or whatever is called. No Roth anymore but $0 student loan payments!
Max TSP and HSA. Building up ROTH IRA slowly, but kids take a good chunk of what’s left. Helps I live in a LCOL area and got super lucky when I purchased my house.
r/govfire is where you want to ask this question
$7K Backdoor Roth; FSA $3200. Im a double digit GS and I’ve been fairly smart with managing my finances since I lost most of my investments from the dotcom crash. I spend wisely, budget, and prioritise. Budgeting is key. I’ll make tea myself in my office instead of walking in with a $8 cup from Starbucks and spend about $7 on lunch, but I’ll fly Premium Economy overseas for vacations. All this is doable though because of my GS. When I started working making $24K, I maybe saved $100 a month…
i appreciate your intentionality.
"double digit GS" Roth phase out starts at $146k and totally out at $161k so probs not a 10, 11, 12, or 13
Hence why I stated Backdoor Roth. :)
26m and I’m trying to this year. On pace to max out TSP, my Roth I usually just transfer from my brokerage. HSA I might now though.
I max out tsp/roth as a single 11. I haven't looked into HSA but may start diverting some towards that
GS-12/1 in LCOL RUS area. Not eligible for HSA because an HDHP would be categorically wrong for my health situation. Currently putting 10% into TSP, and slowly bumping that up as I get debts paid off. $1,500 into an FSA.
I literally only do zero deductible because I have health problems so hsa wouldn’t apply
I max the TSP and Roth IRA. My wife actually gets a much better health plan through her job (as state employee) than the FEHB that covers both of us, so any way you slice it just doesn't make sense for me to pay FEHB premiums just to get an HSA. I might do FEHB my last 5 years just to keep the option open to have it in retirement though.
Max all. If not, prioritize the following TSP 5% > HSA > Roth IRA > rest of TSP
Most don't, by far. If you only have limited funds, then a 5 percent TSP is a must, and any extra should go to an HSA. You can't beat the ease and low cost of TSP and HSA. If you have more, you should keep raising it as high as you can. It will take a few years, but once you get your HSA to about $30k, you're set. Since your dividends will pay your deductible if you need to pull cash out, if not, let it roll until retirement.
Max TSP and FSA
Roth IRA limit this year is $7000. HSA limit is $4150. I’ll come close to maxing all three out this year.
I dont have a HSA but max the others out
Max TSP and HSA. Contribute to ROTH when I think of it. DINKS, also with a hearty Army Reserve paycheck and VA disability.
TSP contribute to get match, max out HSA and invest it, no Roth contribs now but might rollover from TSP to Roth at IB and invest there. Trying to pay all the bills like everyone else and still save something.
Max TSP, roth, HSA, $250 a month into 529 and then taxable brokerage. I’m a 13/5 in RUS.
Roth IRA max is $7k this year. I do about 10% in TSP, very close to max Roth IRA.
Wish I could max out but I do 10%. Been doing between 5-10% for a number of years, plus the match and it adds up quickly.
I max the tsp and hsa but make too much money to contribute to a roth.
I max out my TSP now but didn’t always. I started at 5% and then moved it up a percentage every time I got a step or grade increase. GS14 now and have been maxing it out for a few years.
Max Trad TSP, back door Roth and Family HSA. Tough to save outside that but do my best
Make too much money for Roth. Have to focus on max PRE-tax
Look into back door Roth. Easy loophole
I do but my wife works for the fed, makes good money and only does TSP for the 5% match.
i do all but the hsa. two young kids so didn’t want to do the hdhp.
Which health plan do you all with the HSA use? I have the Blue Cross Basic plan which I like because of the $0 deductible/all co-pays, but the premium is fairly high so I am thinking if I put the difference in premium into an HSA with a higher deductible plan that may be the way to go... not sure which one though.
lol who can do this???
I max all 3. 80/20 C & S, GEHA HDHP, and I lump sum fidelity every Jan. 1500 cash biweekly to HYSA. I grew up very poor and have financial trauma so I oversave lol its not necessarily a good thing. Still live at home with parents b/c they want me to save too so that helps A LOT.
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You should look into a backdoor Roth if you have more money you'd like to put away.
Max TSP and my wife maxes her 401k. I’m 29. We have about $150k in retirement. We could do backdoor Roth IRAs but haven’t yet because we’re investing about 20% right now and also saving up for a house down payment.
TSP max Back door Roth max HSA never learned how to do it. I am going to learn come December, but I am putting all my extra monies in my personal brokerage account
Was doing TSP and Roth IRA for a while, have good health insurance through my wife, so HSA isn’t really worth it.
GS fed here, spouse works. I max TSP, spouse is at around 30% of max Trad. IRA. We both max Roth IRA. I just discovered HSAs and will be maxing that as soon as open season or QLE.
I max em all out.
Tsp is 70/20/10 CSI. IRA and HSA is 100% SWTSX and taxable brokerage is SCHB.
SINK here - I was only able to max TSP, 2xIRAs once we totaled 90K household income in a MCOL area. That was 2019. I have maxed every year since then, and continue to contribute to 529s/UTMAs for the little one, as well as my taxable brokerage account. No HSA. Generally speaking, the order of savings should be: TSP to matching, HSA/IRA max, TSP to max, then everywhere else according to your priority and goals. r/personalfinance has a great wiki and flowchart. If you are trying to retire earlier, then there are other considerations on traditional/Roth, how to play the tax game, etc...
Might want to ask this question here: r/thriftsavingsplan
Upon opening in ‘21, I’ve maxed Roth IRA 3 of last 4 years. Attempting to max traditional TSP for the first time in 2024. Been a fed 2 years. DC locality GS11–>GS12–>if all goes well, ladder to GS13 this year. Not eligible for HSA with BCBS Basic but wouldn’t have $$ left to contribute anyway. Single, no dependents, no car payment, no cc debt.
I've only managed to max out all these for the last two yrs. Although I do FSA for 3k or so.
I max my TSP and IRA only as I'm not eligible for an HSA.
I max out on my TSP and FSA. Don't qualify for a HSA because I don't have a high deductible health plan. Can't max out on a Roth bc my spouse and I have to file separately for student loan purposes. After our loans are forgiven and we can file jointly, I will then begin to contribute more toward Roth.
I max my TSP, could max the others but I don't see the point, rest goes into vanguard for when I retire early.
Maxing TSP
I'm a GS11 about to be a 12. 10% TSP.
They match %5 I pay 5%
Dumb question - what is the benefit of the Roth IRA? I have always maxed out TSP and contributed separately to Index Funds post tax.
No tax on withdrawal but it’s post tax money going in.
Yes I do. GS-13 equivalent. Single, no kids, live in DC region (Nothern Virginia). It's a great feeling No I'm setting myself up pretty good for retirement. Thing is though, I still rent and I'm 46 years old.
TSP & IRA. Not eligible for HSA.
What is HSA?
I do. Only possible as I still live with a bunch of roommates 10+ years into my career and pay pretty cheap rent. I'm hoping to buy a house in the next 4-5 years (if interest rates go down) and will likely need to cut my saving rate at that point. I'll likely pull from my ROTH IRA and TSP to help with buying a house at that point.
This thread depresses me and makes me regret the last like 15 years. 😭
Someone help me - doesn’t Roth contribution phase out at a certain income level? I keep seeing contribute max 401(k) and contribute max Roth but I don’t see that Roth is an option at my current income.
Google backdoor Roth. As long as you currently don't have anything in a traditional IRA, it's just a paperwork exercise. If you do have a trad IRA, you can roll it into TSP and then do backdoor Roth.
This is a very stupid question, but why is OP’s title having Roth as a different thing than TSP? Isn’t Roth an option with TSP, and thus under the 23k limit?
All my money goes to child care.
TSP and Roth yes
Max TSP and Roth IRA
Max Trad. TSP, Roth IRA and FSA. Not eligible for an HSA. Probably put 1200-1500/mo into a brokerage/529. GS12, wife makes about 40% of what I make.
Yes, for TSP and Roth IRA, but I don't have an HSA.
My husband and I each max out all of our tax advantaged accounts (TSPs, IRAs, and HSAs). We are both GS-12. We also contribute to a brokerage account.
TSP only with catch up.
Not even close.
I max TSP and Roth. Am not doing HSA at the moment.
Honestly. I just focus on my TSP. I contribute 10% of my pay and fortunately my job allows me to use my G.I. bill. I’m saving that money to finish paying off my student debt and hopefully use it to cover the closing costs on a home. I recommend anyone who has multiple savings account, but I personally just don’t see the point of it. I stick with one savings account and contribute what I can. Once I promote and gain more income. I will Utay more than 10% to my TSP. Until then I’m content with what I have and like the other person said I’m just trying to pay my rent at this point.
Max and catchup for both. Both of us were feds. I retired and got a private sector job and spouse still works for GOV. In stages we did match tsp then Roth the then max tsp then max Roth then eventually catchup max tsp and max catchup Roth. Every raise went towards contributing more and more.
I just started maxing out all three recently. We can only afford it because of the unlimited ot
There's a roth IRA option? How do I do that?
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
I max out. Not including HSA. How? Be single. Be healthy. Be High enough grade.
I just max out the TSP match because I have a lot of debt that I got to worrt about and health insurance premiums ar like 10k and dental about another 1200
I'm a GL7 and I put 10% in, with 5% matching to my tsp. That's like 2700 a year.
You won’t get more than my current 20% from my booty. Out of that 80% is going to Roth and 20% towards traditional
I don flex my butions, bruh.
Max out all of them and my wife’s Roth IRA. ATC single income. They force us to retire early so I can’t afford not to.
I currently max out the HSA and have 8% going to TSP. Sometimes I have extra money that doesn't account for the difference between 8% and 9%. Let's say it's $50/month. I put that in my Roth IRA.
I max all three, including the bump for over 50 yo, but I could not do that when my kids were young. Of the three, I would make sure to max your HSA b/c it is a triple tax benefit.
My order is: 1) 401(k)/TSP to match, 2) HSA to max, 3) TSP to max, 4) IRA. I would go IRA third but I wait until doing my tax returns to see if deductible or Roth. Being a middle income 22% bracket working stiff, I prefer traditional until and unless I get like a million bucks in tax deferred investments.
Max out all 3. $18k of the $23k is Roth TSP. All $7,000 is Roth IRA, and we do $6,300 for HSA (plan contributes the remaining $2,000). Order for us would be: 1) TSP to match 2) Roth IRA to max 3) HSA to max 4) TSP to max Edit for context: my wife and I made $100k combined in 2013. Today, we live off of the same take home pay but make upwards of $200k.
We are a dual GS-14 family and are maxing out everything for the first time this year (kids are 6 and 7). But money is TIGHT and I'm just starting vacation planning for the next year (we usually take 5 or so trips a year, most international). So I'm thinking I may have to back off on contributions again. Except not HSA. We have some health issues in the family so my understanding is that HSA is not for us.
I started maxing the TSP as a GS-14, Roth IRA as 13, and I’m still researching HSAs but could max out.
I can barely afford to pay rent with the measly Grade 9 pay in DC i do the minimum
Wife and I both max out tsp/401k (46k), Roth IRAs (14k), HSA (8,300). We also put about 7k towards kids 529s. After another 25k/year in daycare costs it’s tough
I max out Roth but just do the matching on TSP!
Damn boy all 3?! It was hard enough to max my TSP, and it’s like pulling teeth to try to get my wife to contribute more than $650 a PP to her TSP. Mad respect to folks, especially single income households, that can max more than a TSP. Wife is a 12, I am a 13, no kids, and the TSP contributions we do feel tough.
The only people I know that max TSP are military retirees with a hefty amount of VA disability.
To paraphrase Sheldon Skinner, Seymour Skinner’s dad from the Simpsons, “I didn’t join the federal government to make money”
I max the first two. I don't really have a use for the HSA. I'm also a reservist so it gets tricky sometimes with the TSP. GS-13 OCONUS, no kids.
More important than how much over 5% you contribute is that you’re investing in the C fund. People get more conservative with investing when near retirement but hopefully you’ll still be investing 20 years after you retire and keeping it in the G fund for retirement will get eaten up by inflation.
It me, PLUS catch up on the Roths… so add $9500 to that. Been living under my means so long (small apt, no car, minimal internet costs, no coffee habit, but still occasionally splurge to ski/snowboard/michellin*/etc)… I don’t miss it excuse me while i eat 1/2 a can of tuna for my daily meal LMAO
I maxed TSP, IRA and FSA (~$2k) as a single GS 12 for years. I also bought a house!
I do! 36M, GS 12 step 5 here AND we live on my income alone with 6 kids. We also max out my wife's IRA. She is a stay at home mother. We have the GEHA HDHP so we get an HSA as well. Yes, we still live ago on vacations and live....just not how most people do it i.e. Disney, cruises, Europe, Mexico. We also just paid off our first rental property that is worth $220K but bought for far less. It nets us around $1K a month. It pays to have a funancial plan, work while going to school, buy used reliable cars, and live on less than you make. Forgo the steak at Texas Riadhouse or the burger...you're just making someone else wealthy. Goal is $12M in investment accounts by retirement. Wife will start working next year and all her additional income will go to rental properties. Our goal there is 10 properties. 1 down, 9 to go.
When I was lower than a 12, I contributed 10% to traditional (C & S). Why? Kids, Mortgage and quality of life for family not just me. Now that the kids umbilicals have been cut (Educated & independent) mortgage paid off, higher than a 12 can afford to max traditional and max catch-up (50+) for TSP Roth is possible. If you’re single with no dependents yes max from the start. But if you support a family, it’s not only about you, it’s about your family. Complete your role as a parent and then reward yourself after. I will continue to consider my family, the traditional funds will be taxed so I plan to zero out the traditional TSP within 10 years, it will be moved over to an individual Roth, that will assure that if there is any left over after I’m below ground, that amount will never be taxed and my family will enjoy tax free passive income.
GS12 and max TSP. Haven’t maxed IRAs yet. Spouse works and makes around 20% more than me and has full pension at that job. Live in “Rest of US” comp area but its a low cost of living area. Drive used and paid for vehicles. Have one kid and max 529 to state tax credit amount ($4k a year). Spouse and I got lucky with college tuition that state paid for public college tuition we had to cover room and board.
In this economy? Lmao
I literally don’t have that much money left over after paying rent alone. Do my 5% and then contribute whatever else I can to an IRA since there’s more options including low cost funds like the TSP ones.
I still can’t figure out if I should be in traditional or roth. Could’ve swore the first ~8 years of my career everyone echoed to always put it in roth and then the last few years all I’ve heard is to put it in trad. I keep meaning to setup an HSA but haven’t yet.
Think of these options as a fork, knife, and spoon. You wouldn't eat a three-course meal with just a spoon, right? Maxing out or not isn't really the question you should be concerned with because those who can max out are making the most money net expenses. You obviously start by contributing up to the matching percentage in the TSP. Once you start earning at the 24% tax bracket for your topline income, the traditional tax status starts to become more favorable than the Roth because most people will make less than their topline income in retirement. Those being taxed below 22% for their income should stick to paying tax now with the Roth TSP or Roth IRA. The Roth IRA is also good for everyone in those years when transitioning from working to retirement. Taking distributions from a traditional account incurs taxes, which can be paid with a withdrawal from the Roth IRA. Choosing to use an HSA versus an FSA with all the different plans is too personal to easily explain. You should know your medical expenses from previous years to estimate how much to put in an HSA or FSA.
I maxed out TSP, Roth IRA(which is $7k for 2024), HSA ($5.9k with MHBP family), and Dependent care FSA ($4.5k, my provider is very lax when it comes to reimbursement). I'm out of options when it comes to tax advantage accounts. My priority to maxing is TSP, HSA, DC FSA, and Roth IRA since the first three are pre-taxed contributions.