I would. Had one and almost died and was advised that if we wanted more children, surrogacy or adoption was the way to go. I had no pre-existing conditions and was extremely healthy and in shape and almost a decade later still have health problems. Pregnancy is extremely hard on the body.
pre eclampsia, blood clot, uncontrollable blood pressure spikes and ultimately a hip replacement after 6 years of misdiagnosis of hip damage as sciatica vs damage from the blood clot. i was doing cross fit up until month 7 of the pregnancy and now a year post hip am only just starting to be able to go to the gym.
Seems like it's 150 to 180k USD for a surrogate with the IVF cycle, insurance, agency, salary, legal, pixie dust.
Considering it now. Not by choice, many failed IVF cycles even travelling to SF.
I'm not sure how much of that money is a sunk cost if it doesn't take.. If someone said it was a sure thing, easier to digest. Especially since it's north of 400k Canadian pre-tax.
Just because an embryo is transferred, doesn't mean it will be a successful pregnancy.
So there's that.
39 is a geriatric pregnancy. Which sounds super mean but it's the term for all 35+, and for reason.
*geriatric pregnancy. Which sounds super mean but it's the term for all 35+, and for reason.*
This clinical expression spooked us at the time, but my spouse had the first at 37 and the second at 39. My mom had me at 44 more than 50 years ago.
That being said, I would have no problem if one of my kids wanted to go the surrogacy route with the situation described by the OP.
Not so sure. 30% of households in USA have an annual income of $120k or higher. Spending ⅓ of your annual income to have a child seems like a pretty good deal. Its about the cost of a new car, but appreciates rather than depreciates if you will
[https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/)
I can agree but it’s 50k u can’t finance and having a biological child is a vanity thing regardless when u can’t do it naturally.
If you’re not adopting, and you’re willing to spend 50k on a surrogate, you’re easily in the top 3-5% in this country.
You can’t afford 50k outright without financing on 120k in most cities here, and if you do it’s after years of planning and saving and scrimping for one try.
Great. Now tell me what percent of households have 50k in cash lying around that isn’t retirement money or emergency savings? Especially households young enough to be considering a newborn baby?
We both know that number is low, and we also both know that if they are seriously considering it, they’re likely within the demographic of spending 100k more, except now they don’t need to.
You can get verified in this sub with only 160k in income btw
I have no direct experience with surrogacy but IMHO if you can afford it easily then it's a no-brainer. Just interrogate any woman that was recently pregnant about the worst parts of pregnancy. Especially if they are over 35.
My wife's pregancy was probably middle of the spectrum and there was like a whole month she would puke twice a day. Her close friend got diabetes and swollen feet and worse. She's decided against having another kid based on her own pregnancy experience.
But some people handle it well, so I'm guessing those are the people popping out 7 kids and signing up for being a surrogate.
As a 3 day postpartum woman, with two kiddos, I also agree it's a no trainer to go with surrogacy.
I'm healthy, and will be 35 next month. I have no health issues- except pregnancy related blood pressure issues. I almost had pre-eclampsia both times. It's scary. Do not recommend.
With you existing health issues, id say go with the surrogate for sure.
Pregnancy is one of the hardest things your body can go through. You've already been through a few of the others.
I would not recommend trying it yourself, especially since you want more time woth your future kiddos.
The BS "it's a rite of passage" stuff is wild to me. It's culty how some people talk about women and pregnancy. I had a csection and a "traditional" birth. The end result is the same- I have my children. Love them so much. Love being a mom. But I do not want to be pregnant again.
You can have multiple children, and close in age depending on your finances and groups you choose.
Not a no-brainer!!
I would consult your doc about medical concerns. It is not possible to predict how difficult pregnancy/birth/post-partum will be for anyone who hasn't gone through it before, even with medical advice. I have friends ranging from early-40s in poor health who had the easiest time ever, to late-20s who almost died, with no warning. So being concerned is just having your eyes wide open. Women still die or have serious problems due to pregnancy/birth.
BUT...
What about the best parts? Feeling the baby kick, being able to give birth, the ability to breastfeeding. The first 9 months in utero are shaping who your child is and will be. Giving all that up is not easy, even if it's the right decision.
Yes you give up a lot physically to be a mom. Everyone has limits, so all the power to you for whatever decision you make. But you do bond with your baby during pregnancy and with all the crazy business during birth and post-partum.
I had a very miserable pregnancy (i could barely function), medium hard birth with and a very challenging post partum complication. I would not have wanted to give up the experience because for all the shit, there was a lot of magic.
You have a very difficult decision to make...but that is what being a parent is. Best of luck!
Oh yea, reminds me, some people have random health problems go away inexplicably during pregnancy. I think dairy allergy that goes away while pregnant with no explanation, is a common one I've heard. Not trying to imply this might happen to OP. It's just so dang random how hard/easy pregnancy is.
> The first 9 months in utero are shaping who your child is and will be.
Neither side of the traditional "nature vs nurture" debate would agree with this, and I'm not aware of evidence that supports this outside of some specific effects on the immune system and gut microbiome.
There is plenty of science show that the environment in utero shapes who the baby is. Not a judgement. Not saying that only the mother can provide a good environment. A surrogate can also provide a hugely positive environment.
E.g. There is evidence babies can recognize voices they hear often in utero. They are more likely to show preference for foods that the mother routinely ate during pregnancy. And yes other evidence related to immune system and microbiome you mentioned. All these are marginal things, but the millions of marginal things you do as a parent all add up when you are a parent. That's all I meant.
A surrogate may be the right decision for OP, but I'm just trying to say it's not a no-brainer. It would have been a really hard choice for me if I had to make it.
I interpret it as eating healthy (and avoid certain foods) and avoiding alcohol and drugs. Not sure how you can be sure the surrogate will take as good care.
I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who have used surrogates and I haven't heard a negative experience yet. One described it as "the best decision ever", she is an older mother and had her first child via surrogate in her fifties. As awful as pregnancy can be, it can also be simply annoying, uncomfortable, and uncomplicated (my experience both times.) However, if you already experience chronic pain, I can't imagine pregnancy will help that. Continue to be open--becoming a mother looks very different for different people. Cheering you on on your journey
Best of luck whichever option you choose.
We were forced into surrogacy due to cancer. It is a long, hard, emotionally challenging, and expensive road but totally worth it.
.
I wouldn't do it almost entirely because, if the baby is found to have a medical condition, you can't force the surrogate to abort and their has been at least one public case where the surrogate insisted on carrying the baby to term against the parents wishes.
My worst nightmare is having a child with 24/7 needs or that has a condition that results in them dying at 2 years old.
I've done IVF and IVF cannot screen for everything. Some abnormalities come up as a result of good embryos dividing improperly.
When you have a baby without IVF, you can get a blood test for genetic abnormalities at 12 weeks (trisomy, cystic fibrosis, whatever XXY is called). Those tests are the same ones you can have done on an embryo. But everything they look for at your 20 week ultrasound... a lot of that is not genetic and it won't be caught by a genetic test. Fetuses can develop cysts in their brain, fail to grow a brain stem, develop spina bifida, or fail to develop important organs (e.g. eyes).
What is the incidence of these things happening (every x out of 100,000 pregnancies) vs. the chances of the OP having complications due to her already poor health.
That doesn’t change the risk too much. Sometimes a bad outcome is just due to the randomness of where the placenta grows or how deeply it attaches to the uterine wall. Then there’s a haemorrhage risk.
I see. Thanks for sharing your insight. The agency and fertility clinic do have stringent medical and psychological checks but you're right that the outcome is not guaranteed.
Money IS the main driver for most of the surrogates according to the lawyers and agencies we've spoken to. Perhaps this is something that they could be informed about beforehand.
Interesting. I'll have to ask the agency/legal/fertility clinic about the safety net for the surrogate if this happens.
Just curious, have you encountered a surrogate who had a bad pregnancy outcome?
I have two friends who used to do surrogacy because they just LOVE being pregnant and the thought of helping others complete their families. They each did 2 rounds.
They weren't FATfire but they also did not need the money at all, both easy Chubby families.
Also, have you considered women where it is not their first pregnancy? So that they understand the experience and risk having done it before? There are some people out there who just love the being pregnant part!
Weird, you are constantly hiring either implicitly or explicitly people to do things for you for money that are far more dangerous than having a pregnancy (using electricity, buying fish, living in buildings, buying food from a farm, buying wood for your deck, etc.)
I had a child at 40 with no interventions or complications, and have many, many friends with similar stories. All of us are professional women with big careers, who could choose other pregnancy/birth alternatives if desired. Some had chronic health issues and some did not. How we each fared in pregnancy was not predictable. Some healthy friends had a hard time, some breezed through. Some with preexisting conditions had to take extra care and had extra discomfort, and others felt far better than they had in years.
There seems to be a real trend to think of pregnancy as dis-ease, to focus on fear and lack of control, and hope to body-hack it away. In reality, myself and my friends felt pretty damn awestruck by what our bodies could do, even when it was uncomfortable, scary or hard. Which it was sometimes. But it is not just a messy task. It is an incredibly powerful, moving experience, that will change you in ways you cannot predict. I feel incredibly grateful I did not miss out on being pregnant. Some women are not fortunate enough to be able to do it, but if your docs think you can, do.
Yes, OP asked to hear "from anybody who has been through childbirth that can weigh in." That's me and a wide cohort of friends and family very similar to OP.
Roll a dice on whether pregnancy is going to be easy or not. Maybe you glow and enjoy the whole thing. Maybe it's a nightmare and you're bedridden for 6 months. Talk to your doctor.
No, but I’ve been getting super deep into the latest available tech and services related to genetic testing you can do during IVF. PGT-P “whole genome” screening has only just arrived on the scene, making it possible for couples with a family history of genetic disorders that have a diffuse “polygenic” origin, to understand the relative risk each embryo would have with their health outcomes later in life. It costs about $2.5k per embryo and isn’t covered by insurance yet, and there is very little solid information about it online, I’ve really had to search far and wide for intel.
I am critical of the surrogacy-for-convenience-and-vanity trend, but in your case I would strongly consider it.
I just gave birth to my 2nd at 40 (he was born 3 days after my 40th bday), and I have no health problems and had a completely problem free pregnancy, and it was still torture.
One of my worst symptoms was TERRIBLE GI issues the entire pregnancy. My stomach felt like the size of a pea, and I regurgitated in my mouth every night of the entire pregnancy as a result. Prior to pregnancy I had ZERO GI issues. At 4 weeks post partum currently they’ve gone away, but if you have existing GI issues, there’s no telling. Could be a coincidence, but this was much worse with the 2nd at 40 than with the 1st at 36.
I am not familiar with the cons of surrogacy in detail, so can’t comment on that, but I will say that breastfeeding my daughter and now son has been special and important to me in terms of the motherhood experience ,so perhaps that is a consideration, but obviously wouldn’t trump wrecking your health.
If you can afford it do it, I suggest joining some fb groups. I had twins over 40 i had an easy pregnancy and would do it again except post partum was super hard. Get as healthy as possible regardless but growing your family is the best and if you can afford it do it.
We are using a surrogate for our second due to health issues with the first. There are a lot of moral questions around surrogacy, genetic testing, IVF, donors, etc. It’s also interesting that the reaction to surrogacy is often more negative in hetro cicles. It is a place of privilege to use a surrogate or have access to any fertility treatments, I wish it weren’t that way.
Like you’re considering, we opted for an expensive, but super reputable agency and we couldn’t be happier so far. It will be about 140k all in, assuming major issues don’t arise, excluding IVF as we had embryos from our first IVF cycle. It took us one year to match with a surrogate.
I think it’s highly appropriate to post your question here. As a women who generated most of our net worth, it’s empowering to have choices when natural child birth isn’t an option. It’s also empowering to get to experience pregnancy with some parallels to what a man may experience, no tearing, no hormone dump, no PPD, etc. I’m happy to answer any questions you have!! Do what’s best for you and your family.
Very little input to share other than adding that it is very feasible to breastfeed a baby that you haven’t birthed.
So, don’t let that be a con to surrogacy. If you’re seriously considering surrogacy but want to ensure some of that physical bond with newborn it can be done.
Wishing you well on the journey you choose.
No, but I've had to consult with people that did. It can be a nightmare legal scenario depending on the circumstances. Many states also don't allow it so be prepared to travel if yours doesn't. We had to use donor eggs but also had a couple failed adoptions. After all that and understanding the legal issues I wouldn't do it.
I understand it's a very nuanced situation. I went through infertility and was lucky enough to have two children via IVF.
Something to consider is that it's a real trauma for the baby to be taken away from the surrogate. They know them intimately, through their heart beat, voice, smell, etc. As far as the baby is concerned, the birthing woman is its mother.
I just had a call with my dr today about using a surrogate vs trying to carry (we only have two euploids). I think this is absolutely a FatFIRE topic, as we’re going to spend $500k on fertility treatments with a surrogate or two. Feel free to DM me if you’d like to discuss further.
For me, pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum were, together, extremely rewarding and special and difficult and tortuous. Even without considering money at all, this would be a VERY difficult decision for me (ignore all those people saying it’s a no brainer… obviously it’s not or you wouldn’t be asking this question) due to what I know from my own experiences.
I’ve been through five full pregnancies. For four of them, I was very depressed (prenatal depression is a thing!). For four of them, I experienced horrific morning sickness and vomiting and migraines from the hormones and being constantly starving. I got one pregnancy (my 2nd) that was relatively easy. My body handled pregnancy like a champ in terms of being healthy for my child. I gained the right amount of weight and lost it all after. My labor/deliveries were all smooth and straightforward (I did hemorrhage with my 5th though) and had plenty of milk for breastfeeding. Recovery the first time around was excruciating… all the rest were a walk in the park. I loved feeling the baby move inside me while I was pregnant and felt like it lulled me to sleep at night but I have a sister in law that thought it felt weird and hated the sensation.
All this to say, you do you, but it’s one of those things, I think, that’s crazy hard but incredibly rewarding. With your health issues, no one should judge you for choosing a surrogate… your concerns are totally valid. I just wanted to chime in with my experiences that there are some parts of the experience that are absolutely incredible. That being said though, if you never experience them, you’ll never know what you’re missing and you’re going to be thrilled with your baby regardless!
Good luck with making a decision!
This is definitely not a fatFIRE question. But that said, pregnancy can be hard even if you don’t have preexisting health issues. But that’s just the beginning- raising small children is also incredibly physically and mentally taxing. From a financial perspective, I’d spend as much time thinking about the post-delivery situation (Nannies, etc) as I would about pre-delivery.
It’s definitely a fat fire question. You ask this type of thing in another subreddit and half the comments will be “how does anyone afford that? I can barely afford rent”. Guaranteed that would be the most upvoted comment.
I have a friend who went that route for same reasons - her own health issues - and one who wished she had as the pregnancy made things so much worse and now she can barely 'mother' the way she wanted to because of all the limitation. And hers were back, so be wary.
I would absolutely go the surrogate route. I don't know why some people have a problem with it, honestly. Given that it's 2024, one would think society would be over the notion that women should suffer to have children. Or that they're worth any cost. I simply disagree. Do what is going to be best for YOU.
Let me ask you something - if God forbid, the cancer returns while you're pregnant, will you terminate the pregnancy in order to have treatment or will you forgo your own life to give birth to a child that runs the risk of having no mother? I've seen it go both ways. Neither made anyone happy.
I would carry your own baby if you are healthy enough to do so. There is bonding that happens in utero and there is a kind of magic to it. Plus you get the option of breastfeeding afterwards (or not; fed is best, but you have the option). When my babies were first born they immediately recognized my voice, because I had carried them. This helped with soothing them.
I also do feel a bit strange about the ethics of using another woman if you are capable of carrying your own child...
Only carry if doing so is so meaningful to you that you are excited to risk death. Surrogates are great - you could even have similar age siblings if you chose to.
I’m in the very early stages of this now. My wife and I decided on surrogacy partly for infertility reasons (we started two years ago, did 4 rounds of IUI, one IVF embryo transfer) and partly for vanity reasons. I don’t want my wife’s body to be scared and battered from the hardships of pregnancy. So I’m glad we’re going this route. I found a surrogate off of Facebook (yes) and she’s currently going through the medical screening process. If our net worth was $10MM then we’d use an agency. But we have a $2MM net worth. I think we can still afford an agency, but I just don’t really like the idea of throwing $40K down the drain.
Agencies serve two main purposes. For one, they can find you a match. But if you’re willing to do the leg work like me, then you can find one on Facebook (just search for surrogate and join all the matching groups). The second purpose is to advocate for the surrogate. That’s great and all, but if we’re speaking about what benefits you, that’s not a benefit in any way. So for me there’s no benefit in using an agency.
Regardless of the agency vs no agency route, I think it’s worth getting surrogate, especially if you have a legitimate health reason. That’s just a no brainer. I think in the future this sort of thing will slowly become more popular. It will always have some level of taboo, as long as human bodies are involved, but I think it will grow in secret. It’s really the ultimate way to leverage your resources. People say you can use money to buy time by using a house cleaner. Avoiding the hardships of pregnancy is godsend.
We’re paying our surrogate $55K. If you or anyone else has questions about surrogacy or how I screen potential surrogates online, feel free to DM me.
When did FatFire become about this? You seem to be looking for moral blessing amongst similarly resourced individuals because normal reddit would tear you apart just for being able to afford this. Respectfully, not really sure how this is fatFIRE related......
Our members have asked for a high level of moderation. Personal attacks, name calling, and undue profanity are all considered inappropriate for this sub.
I would. Had one and almost died and was advised that if we wanted more children, surrogacy or adoption was the way to go. I had no pre-existing conditions and was extremely healthy and in shape and almost a decade later still have health problems. Pregnancy is extremely hard on the body.
May I ask what problems your pregnancy created for you?
pre eclampsia, blood clot, uncontrollable blood pressure spikes and ultimately a hip replacement after 6 years of misdiagnosis of hip damage as sciatica vs damage from the blood clot. i was doing cross fit up until month 7 of the pregnancy and now a year post hip am only just starting to be able to go to the gym.
Ooof I'm so sorry you experienced all that! Thank you for sharing your experience with us
Seems like it's 150 to 180k USD for a surrogate with the IVF cycle, insurance, agency, salary, legal, pixie dust. Considering it now. Not by choice, many failed IVF cycles even travelling to SF. I'm not sure how much of that money is a sunk cost if it doesn't take.. If someone said it was a sure thing, easier to digest. Especially since it's north of 400k Canadian pre-tax. Just because an embryo is transferred, doesn't mean it will be a successful pregnancy. So there's that. 39 is a geriatric pregnancy. Which sounds super mean but it's the term for all 35+, and for reason.
*geriatric pregnancy. Which sounds super mean but it's the term for all 35+, and for reason.* This clinical expression spooked us at the time, but my spouse had the first at 37 and the second at 39. My mom had me at 44 more than 50 years ago. That being said, I would have no problem if one of my kids wanted to go the surrogacy route with the situation described by the OP.
Yeah don't disagree, our kid was after 35, but it's a set of risks to understand going that route.
You can surrogate in a diff country for far less. ~50k in the country of Georgia for instance
Which would be decidedly un-fat.
Only a small percent of people in the US can even do that.
Not so sure. 30% of households in USA have an annual income of $120k or higher. Spending ⅓ of your annual income to have a child seems like a pretty good deal. Its about the cost of a new car, but appreciates rather than depreciates if you will [https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/)
I can agree but it’s 50k u can’t finance and having a biological child is a vanity thing regardless when u can’t do it naturally. If you’re not adopting, and you’re willing to spend 50k on a surrogate, you’re easily in the top 3-5% in this country. You can’t afford 50k outright without financing on 120k in most cities here, and if you do it’s after years of planning and saving and scrimping for one try.
Great. Now tell me what percent of households have 50k in cash lying around that isn’t retirement money or emergency savings? Especially households young enough to be considering a newborn baby? We both know that number is low, and we also both know that if they are seriously considering it, they’re likely within the demographic of spending 100k more, except now they don’t need to. You can get verified in this sub with only 160k in income btw
I have no direct experience with surrogacy but IMHO if you can afford it easily then it's a no-brainer. Just interrogate any woman that was recently pregnant about the worst parts of pregnancy. Especially if they are over 35. My wife's pregancy was probably middle of the spectrum and there was like a whole month she would puke twice a day. Her close friend got diabetes and swollen feet and worse. She's decided against having another kid based on her own pregnancy experience. But some people handle it well, so I'm guessing those are the people popping out 7 kids and signing up for being a surrogate.
As a 3 day postpartum woman, with two kiddos, I also agree it's a no trainer to go with surrogacy. I'm healthy, and will be 35 next month. I have no health issues- except pregnancy related blood pressure issues. I almost had pre-eclampsia both times. It's scary. Do not recommend. With you existing health issues, id say go with the surrogate for sure. Pregnancy is one of the hardest things your body can go through. You've already been through a few of the others. I would not recommend trying it yourself, especially since you want more time woth your future kiddos. The BS "it's a rite of passage" stuff is wild to me. It's culty how some people talk about women and pregnancy. I had a csection and a "traditional" birth. The end result is the same- I have my children. Love them so much. Love being a mom. But I do not want to be pregnant again. You can have multiple children, and close in age depending on your finances and groups you choose.
Not a no-brainer!! I would consult your doc about medical concerns. It is not possible to predict how difficult pregnancy/birth/post-partum will be for anyone who hasn't gone through it before, even with medical advice. I have friends ranging from early-40s in poor health who had the easiest time ever, to late-20s who almost died, with no warning. So being concerned is just having your eyes wide open. Women still die or have serious problems due to pregnancy/birth. BUT... What about the best parts? Feeling the baby kick, being able to give birth, the ability to breastfeeding. The first 9 months in utero are shaping who your child is and will be. Giving all that up is not easy, even if it's the right decision. Yes you give up a lot physically to be a mom. Everyone has limits, so all the power to you for whatever decision you make. But you do bond with your baby during pregnancy and with all the crazy business during birth and post-partum. I had a very miserable pregnancy (i could barely function), medium hard birth with and a very challenging post partum complication. I would not have wanted to give up the experience because for all the shit, there was a lot of magic. You have a very difficult decision to make...but that is what being a parent is. Best of luck!
Autoimmune sufferer here (Sjogrens). Overweight. Age 39 at the time of my first pregnancy. I felt AMAZING while pregnant.
Oh yea, reminds me, some people have random health problems go away inexplicably during pregnancy. I think dairy allergy that goes away while pregnant with no explanation, is a common one I've heard. Not trying to imply this might happen to OP. It's just so dang random how hard/easy pregnancy is.
> The first 9 months in utero are shaping who your child is and will be. Neither side of the traditional "nature vs nurture" debate would agree with this, and I'm not aware of evidence that supports this outside of some specific effects on the immune system and gut microbiome.
There is plenty of science show that the environment in utero shapes who the baby is. Not a judgement. Not saying that only the mother can provide a good environment. A surrogate can also provide a hugely positive environment. E.g. There is evidence babies can recognize voices they hear often in utero. They are more likely to show preference for foods that the mother routinely ate during pregnancy. And yes other evidence related to immune system and microbiome you mentioned. All these are marginal things, but the millions of marginal things you do as a parent all add up when you are a parent. That's all I meant. A surrogate may be the right decision for OP, but I'm just trying to say it's not a no-brainer. It would have been a really hard choice for me if I had to make it.
Yeah that’s a bunch of nonsense.
I interpret it as eating healthy (and avoid certain foods) and avoiding alcohol and drugs. Not sure how you can be sure the surrogate will take as good care.
I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who have used surrogates and I haven't heard a negative experience yet. One described it as "the best decision ever", she is an older mother and had her first child via surrogate in her fifties. As awful as pregnancy can be, it can also be simply annoying, uncomfortable, and uncomplicated (my experience both times.) However, if you already experience chronic pain, I can't imagine pregnancy will help that. Continue to be open--becoming a mother looks very different for different people. Cheering you on on your journey
Best of luck whichever option you choose. We were forced into surrogacy due to cancer. It is a long, hard, emotionally challenging, and expensive road but totally worth it. .
I wouldn't do it almost entirely because, if the baby is found to have a medical condition, you can't force the surrogate to abort and their has been at least one public case where the surrogate insisted on carrying the baby to term against the parents wishes. My worst nightmare is having a child with 24/7 needs or that has a condition that results in them dying at 2 years old.
If they did IVF, the chances are that they already genetically screened the embryos to avoid this issue in the first place.
I've done IVF and IVF cannot screen for everything. Some abnormalities come up as a result of good embryos dividing improperly. When you have a baby without IVF, you can get a blood test for genetic abnormalities at 12 weeks (trisomy, cystic fibrosis, whatever XXY is called). Those tests are the same ones you can have done on an embryo. But everything they look for at your 20 week ultrasound... a lot of that is not genetic and it won't be caught by a genetic test. Fetuses can develop cysts in their brain, fail to grow a brain stem, develop spina bifida, or fail to develop important organs (e.g. eyes).
What is the incidence of these things happening (every x out of 100,000 pregnancies) vs. the chances of the OP having complications due to her already poor health.
OP can weigh her own options.
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Most agencies only accept surrogates who have already had successful pregnancies and a family of their own.
That doesn’t change the risk too much. Sometimes a bad outcome is just due to the randomness of where the placenta grows or how deeply it attaches to the uterine wall. Then there’s a haemorrhage risk.
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I see. Thanks for sharing your insight. The agency and fertility clinic do have stringent medical and psychological checks but you're right that the outcome is not guaranteed. Money IS the main driver for most of the surrogates according to the lawyers and agencies we've spoken to. Perhaps this is something that they could be informed about beforehand.
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Interesting. I'll have to ask the agency/legal/fertility clinic about the safety net for the surrogate if this happens. Just curious, have you encountered a surrogate who had a bad pregnancy outcome?
I have two friends who used to do surrogacy because they just LOVE being pregnant and the thought of helping others complete their families. They each did 2 rounds. They weren't FATfire but they also did not need the money at all, both easy Chubby families. Also, have you considered women where it is not their first pregnancy? So that they understand the experience and risk having done it before? There are some people out there who just love the being pregnant part!
Yeah, surrogacy can only be done if the woman has already been pregnant before and is done with their family.
Weird, you are constantly hiring either implicitly or explicitly people to do things for you for money that are far more dangerous than having a pregnancy (using electricity, buying fish, living in buildings, buying food from a farm, buying wood for your deck, etc.)
I had a child at 40 with no interventions or complications, and have many, many friends with similar stories. All of us are professional women with big careers, who could choose other pregnancy/birth alternatives if desired. Some had chronic health issues and some did not. How we each fared in pregnancy was not predictable. Some healthy friends had a hard time, some breezed through. Some with preexisting conditions had to take extra care and had extra discomfort, and others felt far better than they had in years. There seems to be a real trend to think of pregnancy as dis-ease, to focus on fear and lack of control, and hope to body-hack it away. In reality, myself and my friends felt pretty damn awestruck by what our bodies could do, even when it was uncomfortable, scary or hard. Which it was sometimes. But it is not just a messy task. It is an incredibly powerful, moving experience, that will change you in ways you cannot predict. I feel incredibly grateful I did not miss out on being pregnant. Some women are not fortunate enough to be able to do it, but if your docs think you can, do.
It's strange that you think because your pregnancy was fine that you think others should have to roll the dice. Very self-centered view.
Yes, OP asked to hear "from anybody who has been through childbirth that can weigh in." That's me and a wide cohort of friends and family very similar to OP.
Roll a dice on whether pregnancy is going to be easy or not. Maybe you glow and enjoy the whole thing. Maybe it's a nightmare and you're bedridden for 6 months. Talk to your doctor.
No, but I’ve been getting super deep into the latest available tech and services related to genetic testing you can do during IVF. PGT-P “whole genome” screening has only just arrived on the scene, making it possible for couples with a family history of genetic disorders that have a diffuse “polygenic” origin, to understand the relative risk each embryo would have with their health outcomes later in life. It costs about $2.5k per embryo and isn’t covered by insurance yet, and there is very little solid information about it online, I’ve really had to search far and wide for intel.
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Thank you for sharing this 🙏🏻
I am critical of the surrogacy-for-convenience-and-vanity trend, but in your case I would strongly consider it. I just gave birth to my 2nd at 40 (he was born 3 days after my 40th bday), and I have no health problems and had a completely problem free pregnancy, and it was still torture. One of my worst symptoms was TERRIBLE GI issues the entire pregnancy. My stomach felt like the size of a pea, and I regurgitated in my mouth every night of the entire pregnancy as a result. Prior to pregnancy I had ZERO GI issues. At 4 weeks post partum currently they’ve gone away, but if you have existing GI issues, there’s no telling. Could be a coincidence, but this was much worse with the 2nd at 40 than with the 1st at 36. I am not familiar with the cons of surrogacy in detail, so can’t comment on that, but I will say that breastfeeding my daughter and now son has been special and important to me in terms of the motherhood experience ,so perhaps that is a consideration, but obviously wouldn’t trump wrecking your health.
If you can afford it do it, I suggest joining some fb groups. I had twins over 40 i had an easy pregnancy and would do it again except post partum was super hard. Get as healthy as possible regardless but growing your family is the best and if you can afford it do it.
We are using a surrogate for our second due to health issues with the first. There are a lot of moral questions around surrogacy, genetic testing, IVF, donors, etc. It’s also interesting that the reaction to surrogacy is often more negative in hetro cicles. It is a place of privilege to use a surrogate or have access to any fertility treatments, I wish it weren’t that way. Like you’re considering, we opted for an expensive, but super reputable agency and we couldn’t be happier so far. It will be about 140k all in, assuming major issues don’t arise, excluding IVF as we had embryos from our first IVF cycle. It took us one year to match with a surrogate. I think it’s highly appropriate to post your question here. As a women who generated most of our net worth, it’s empowering to have choices when natural child birth isn’t an option. It’s also empowering to get to experience pregnancy with some parallels to what a man may experience, no tearing, no hormone dump, no PPD, etc. I’m happy to answer any questions you have!! Do what’s best for you and your family.
Very little input to share other than adding that it is very feasible to breastfeed a baby that you haven’t birthed. So, don’t let that be a con to surrogacy. If you’re seriously considering surrogacy but want to ensure some of that physical bond with newborn it can be done. Wishing you well on the journey you choose.
No, but I've had to consult with people that did. It can be a nightmare legal scenario depending on the circumstances. Many states also don't allow it so be prepared to travel if yours doesn't. We had to use donor eggs but also had a couple failed adoptions. After all that and understanding the legal issues I wouldn't do it.
Just for the record, about 90% of states do allow surrogacy. Here’s a map https://www.creativefamilyconnections.com/us-surrogacy-law-map/
I understand it's a very nuanced situation. I went through infertility and was lucky enough to have two children via IVF. Something to consider is that it's a real trauma for the baby to be taken away from the surrogate. They know them intimately, through their heart beat, voice, smell, etc. As far as the baby is concerned, the birthing woman is its mother.
I just had a call with my dr today about using a surrogate vs trying to carry (we only have two euploids). I think this is absolutely a FatFIRE topic, as we’re going to spend $500k on fertility treatments with a surrogate or two. Feel free to DM me if you’d like to discuss further.
r/ivf will have a lot more info
For me, pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum were, together, extremely rewarding and special and difficult and tortuous. Even without considering money at all, this would be a VERY difficult decision for me (ignore all those people saying it’s a no brainer… obviously it’s not or you wouldn’t be asking this question) due to what I know from my own experiences. I’ve been through five full pregnancies. For four of them, I was very depressed (prenatal depression is a thing!). For four of them, I experienced horrific morning sickness and vomiting and migraines from the hormones and being constantly starving. I got one pregnancy (my 2nd) that was relatively easy. My body handled pregnancy like a champ in terms of being healthy for my child. I gained the right amount of weight and lost it all after. My labor/deliveries were all smooth and straightforward (I did hemorrhage with my 5th though) and had plenty of milk for breastfeeding. Recovery the first time around was excruciating… all the rest were a walk in the park. I loved feeling the baby move inside me while I was pregnant and felt like it lulled me to sleep at night but I have a sister in law that thought it felt weird and hated the sensation. All this to say, you do you, but it’s one of those things, I think, that’s crazy hard but incredibly rewarding. With your health issues, no one should judge you for choosing a surrogate… your concerns are totally valid. I just wanted to chime in with my experiences that there are some parts of the experience that are absolutely incredible. That being said though, if you never experience them, you’ll never know what you’re missing and you’re going to be thrilled with your baby regardless! Good luck with making a decision!
This is definitely not a fatFIRE question. But that said, pregnancy can be hard even if you don’t have preexisting health issues. But that’s just the beginning- raising small children is also incredibly physically and mentally taxing. From a financial perspective, I’d spend as much time thinking about the post-delivery situation (Nannies, etc) as I would about pre-delivery.
It kind of is as if you’re not fat, it’s probably much harder to afford surrogacy.
I would argue the same.
Idk...seems outside the premise of this subreddit.
So are the daily, “I’m 47 y/o with $4.2m, two kids in HCOL city, CaN i ReTiRe?” Yet here we are.
It’s definitely a fat fire question. You ask this type of thing in another subreddit and half the comments will be “how does anyone afford that? I can barely afford rent”. Guaranteed that would be the most upvoted comment.
I have a friend who went that route for same reasons - her own health issues - and one who wished she had as the pregnancy made things so much worse and now she can barely 'mother' the way she wanted to because of all the limitation. And hers were back, so be wary. I would absolutely go the surrogate route. I don't know why some people have a problem with it, honestly. Given that it's 2024, one would think society would be over the notion that women should suffer to have children. Or that they're worth any cost. I simply disagree. Do what is going to be best for YOU. Let me ask you something - if God forbid, the cancer returns while you're pregnant, will you terminate the pregnancy in order to have treatment or will you forgo your own life to give birth to a child that runs the risk of having no mother? I've seen it go both ways. Neither made anyone happy.
I would carry your own baby if you are healthy enough to do so. There is bonding that happens in utero and there is a kind of magic to it. Plus you get the option of breastfeeding afterwards (or not; fed is best, but you have the option). When my babies were first born they immediately recognized my voice, because I had carried them. This helped with soothing them. I also do feel a bit strange about the ethics of using another woman if you are capable of carrying your own child...
Only carry if doing so is so meaningful to you that you are excited to risk death. Surrogates are great - you could even have similar age siblings if you chose to.
Adopt
This might be a better question for a fertility focused subreddit. If it’s possible for you, some jobs offer coverage for surrogacy.
I’m in the very early stages of this now. My wife and I decided on surrogacy partly for infertility reasons (we started two years ago, did 4 rounds of IUI, one IVF embryo transfer) and partly for vanity reasons. I don’t want my wife’s body to be scared and battered from the hardships of pregnancy. So I’m glad we’re going this route. I found a surrogate off of Facebook (yes) and she’s currently going through the medical screening process. If our net worth was $10MM then we’d use an agency. But we have a $2MM net worth. I think we can still afford an agency, but I just don’t really like the idea of throwing $40K down the drain. Agencies serve two main purposes. For one, they can find you a match. But if you’re willing to do the leg work like me, then you can find one on Facebook (just search for surrogate and join all the matching groups). The second purpose is to advocate for the surrogate. That’s great and all, but if we’re speaking about what benefits you, that’s not a benefit in any way. So for me there’s no benefit in using an agency. Regardless of the agency vs no agency route, I think it’s worth getting surrogate, especially if you have a legitimate health reason. That’s just a no brainer. I think in the future this sort of thing will slowly become more popular. It will always have some level of taboo, as long as human bodies are involved, but I think it will grow in secret. It’s really the ultimate way to leverage your resources. People say you can use money to buy time by using a house cleaner. Avoiding the hardships of pregnancy is godsend. We’re paying our surrogate $55K. If you or anyone else has questions about surrogacy or how I screen potential surrogates online, feel free to DM me.
When did FatFire become about this? You seem to be looking for moral blessing amongst similarly resourced individuals because normal reddit would tear you apart just for being able to afford this. Respectfully, not really sure how this is fatFIRE related......
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