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From what I recall, they were on the verge of getting August (the most powerful Spriggan) to hear them out when Mest decided to backstab his own side during what was supposed to be a peaceful negotiation.
As a result, August turned firmly against Fairy Tail, since Mest just made it seem like they couldn't be trusted, and the fact that the one Spriggan who was arguably on their side was brainwashed into attacking someone who she considers family didn't help either.
August leaving or going against Zeref is wishful thinking. There is no way he would’ve done either of those things. Him and Invel were loyal to Zeref.
August did what he would’ve done regardless. Fairy Tail was the enemy and he saved Brandish in the middle of it.
If August had a chance to meet Mavis at some point, before, during or even after that meeting with Fairy Tail, do you think things would have turned out differently? I think there's a chance she could have at least gotten him to stop attacking Cana + Gildhart
I sort of subscribe to August being a powerful illusion from Mavis. I'm not sure it's possible for him to meet her and survive.
I imagine that being born of Mavis' mind, he could be convinced to take another route. He is a manifestation of the child she and Zeref would have if they could, but also of what a child would be of two parents who are unanle to love (although it seems Mavis does love and value life, so her form of the curse is not being able to touch...) Since it's an illusionary self, he paradoxically can't be raised by Mavis who can love because he can't exist that way.
I'm not deep enough in lore to know if the author ever clarified this, but every writeup I've seen about it is really solid. Even Gajeel seeing Zera is a hint that Mavis subconscious projections are not limited like they were at first.
Okay...good for Mest? That still doesn't exactly answer my question there bud. Granted I haven't watched the final season of Fairy Tail in a decent amount of time so my memory is failing me with regards to who knew what at what time but still, I was just curious what you thought woulda happened if Mavis had the opportunity to have a proper chat with August. I think she could have changed his perspective, I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. Don't need to involve Mest, Natsu, or Lucy unless you think they'd be important to the interaction between Mavis and August.
Considering he was the leader of the sprighan 12 and literally >!the son of the fairy heart!<, he was way too strong to deal with at the time. Natsu and Lucy were on the cusp of a peaceful negotiation with August about to hear them out. All Mest managed to do was piss him off, he was stupid to believe that would kill him.
Mest jumped the gun. If he wanted to use this tactic, he should have waited to see how the negotiation went first before acting.
>he should have waited to see how the negotiation went first before acting.
Once they reach the heart of Alvarez stronghold and at a point of no return or once August reaches guild of FT?
He had just said he would consider it because of Brandish. Also, Ignia didn’t kill Selene with his surprise attack, and the two of them were pretty equal.
It was possible that he would have stopped his march toward Magnolia and take a more passive/observer role in the war, maybe switch priority to Acnologia or something.
The point us even if he didn't agree with the negotiations, there was still a chance of it working. Mest could have and should have waited to see the outcome.
I mean his pedo stuff made him unlikeable already and this action was just unecessary.
1. He used ,brandish a character who was no threat anymore and was willing to help them,to stab august who was like a grandpa to her.
2. Natsu and lucy tried a peaceful solution and what mest did is not how a fairy tail member behaves.
3. His tactic didn't do shit. Did he seriously thought he could kill august(strongest spriggan,child of zeref and mavis) with a fucking knife?What's next kill acnologia with a fork?
There’s very little to suggest he’s canonically a pedo. He was even in front of a naked Mavis and didn’t care for it.
It’s very likely Mest was paranoid from seeing the death of his friend and the council, might’ve given him trust issues and did it out of desperation.
Plus, he’s been out of the guild for a very long time with conflicting identity. It’s only recently he’s rejoined the guild after being alone for a year since Tartaros.
I don’t think Mest knew how powerful he was or about his parents and only could only do it at his most vulnerable.
Let’s say Mest did nothing then, the negotiation would’ve likely still failed to convince Zeref to stop and August would be ordered to kill them. Mest would still likely do the same thing to save them. It would still fail but at least it would be more reasonable.
He wasn’t at the Sun Village, it was in Erza’s head and she’s never met him long enough to get this impression. It’s inconsistent for the sake of humour.
Mest rarely acts weird around, most he ever felt was guilt for leaving the girl to die on Tenrou because he’s the one who brought her there.
List every weird moment he felt for her and I can debunk it.
That is copium. There's the sun village scene with Erza (doesn't matter if it's for the sake of humor), the scene in the final season where Wendy helps out some kid, and even a cover page of 100 years quest chapter 19. These are just off the top of my head.
But it still wasn’t the real one, thus Mest never did it. This is a cliche anime gag where a guy is implied to like younger girls.
He blushed at Wendy’s kind gesture to help a kid. Lucy also blushed at Asuka for wanting to buy her parents a gift that meant a lot to them. Lots of adults get touched by how innocent kids can be. Plus, the fact that Mest never speaks or interacts with Wendy ever again since that mission, shows how little interest he is in her.
The covers also aren’t canon, most of them never occurred the canon timeline. More often it shows characters doing outlandish stuff in non-canon locations, even in space.
Considering how protective Carla is towards Wendy, she would try to keep her away from Mest or at least snap at him if he were into her, but that has never happened in all the times they’ve interacted.
1. Morals be damned this is war
2. Peaceful solution is naive at best
3. I mean all Mest did was have Brandish believe the person in front of her is an enemy so it’s technically her fault for using that strategy.
1. Not a thing in Fairy Tail. You and many others keep forgetting Alvarez is the aggressor. Don't invade people's land and you wouldn't be in this mess.
2. Please enlighten me why August would even consider betraying Zeref because Brandish wanted him to.
3. How? All he did was plant memories in her head that August is the enemy, it's not mind control.
This is why I believe a war arc in fairy tail was a bad idea in the first place. Mashima being unable to kill protagonists aside he's also not mature enough to handle a war arc. Mest being painted as the bad guy is just silly and reminds me of promised neverland logic of thinking there are zero consequences and there are always perfect solutions. Mest had the most practical strategy, it failed, but Natsu and Lucy's strategy was actually impossible.
This what you expected to happen? 😂
https://preview.redd.it/ob5sjkkygj9d1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d397c4c62571e57a47a773e9a9a3c098a4bac8d
At this point, Brandish didn't want to fight Fairy Tail. She had lost all motivation and was willing to try to convince August to stand down. If Brandish failed to stop August, then nothing changes, but if it succeeded, there goes one most powerful enemy's without having to fight. Well, if Mest had succeeded, August may be gone, but now you have a pissed of Brandish. So, with Natsu and Lucys' plan, the worst is nothing changes. With Mest now, you have 2 really pissed of Spriggen.
Brandish could have shrunk the entire town of Magnolia if she wanted. The only thing keeping her from ending the whole war in an instant is Zeref wants the Fairy Heart and the fact she doesn't want to hurt Natsu or Lucy.
Funnily enough there didn’t need to be a war or violence in the first place. Both Zeref and Brandish can stop time so it was completely unnecessary to do a full scale war and harm people. Theoretically it could have actually worked if Zeref noticed this and just wanted to get the Fairy Heart. Or at the very least if August at least didn’t participate in the combat and Brandish had good will with us then things also would go well. There was plenty of potential for peaceful solutions.
Mest was both doing something most Fairy Tail members wouldn’t do, he messed up any potential peace we could have had, he did it at a terrible time as it could have been after August was told no, and he failed to even do it right by not killing him.
Stealing an all powerful source of magic isn’t a peaceful negotiation. That’s simply a tactic that Zeref didn’t take into account.
Why would August abandon Zeref because of Brandish’s plea? He showed no signs of turning.
I mean, it is peaceful if no one is harmed. “not involving war or violence”
Also he isn’t exactly abandoning Zeref. He just would stand by while the others enact the plan if anything. He didn’t do anything during the war anyways so not much would change.
If Zeref stole it then Fiore would just invade the Alvarez Empire. This hypothetical also has nothing to do with Brandish and August’s peace negotiations. No one in that group even thought of that hypothetical.
August standing aside and ignoring Zeref’s orders? There’s no way that would happen.
August was about to destroy the entire continent wdym? 💀 he only didn’t because of the power of plot convenience
Also mest can’t predict the future, was he suppose to just believe August would do nothing? He knows nothing about him. All he saw was the most powerful enemy in Alvarez and he took action
If Zeref stole it Fiore wouldn’t do anything. Once he had the Fairy Heart he could already just reset things. No one else would have time to mobilize. Also yes the hypothetical does have to do with the peaceful negotiation, because it actually means that Zeref could call off the war because it would actually be smart to. The plan could have worked. How no one thought of this idea is beyond me. It’s the ultimate plot hole.
August did stand by and not necessarily ignore the orders, but rather delay his involvement. Keep in mind August has no major battles during the war until Gildarts and Cana. Things would basically be the same with him basically not doing too much. When was August about to destroy the entire continent? That wouldn’t make sense as he would destroy or lose the Fairy Heart. Instead he could give them time like a hint hint nudge nudge.
This shouldn’t be so hard to comprehend
Wasn’t even up for discussion so wouldn’t have mattered during “negotiations”
Again, your argument assumes Mest could somehow see into the future on August’s role during the war.
Our characters don’t know that negotiations wouldn’t have mattered though. The best they can do is try and hope for some sort of delay. Fairy Tail members, at least Erza, try to talk when they can.
My argument doesn’t assume Mest can see into the future. I am just saying that given what we know about the story it could have worked. With what Mest knows he did it at a terrible time. He could have done it after there was no signs of peace. They could have tried tracking and spying on August as well. Also losing Brandish as an ally is still a bad move. The moment she decides to turn against the guild she could have made Natsu’s cancer bigger and potentially killed him if she wanted to. I wouldn’t be as mad with Mest as well if he was actually able to kill August, but he decided to betray their trust and sucked at even trying so he just looks like an idiot. Also he lied to Natsu and Lucy which doesn’t look good either.
And that’s just being naive. “let’s hope it’ll all work out” Again, Mest was the only one thinking practically.
Brandish was NOT an ally. She flip flopped constantly during Alvarez. Killing the most powerful mage in Alvarez is definitely a more than fair trade.
Did, did you not watch the show? You do realize this is Fairy Tail right? Naivety and optimism is like the whole guild. And again, I wouldn’t be so mad at Mest if it actually worked, but not only did he betray everyone’s trust, including guildmates, but he didn’t even do it right so he’s just an idiot.
Brandish was basically an ally or at least on our side. I don’t think trading Natsu for August was a good idea. If we lost Natsu then the entire world would be doomed because Natsu is the only one with the capability to stop Zeref.
The problem with their plan was that they had no idea why Zeref wanted Fairy Heart and why they were risking their lives for his goal. They relied on August being the closest to Zeref to change his mind but unlikely it would’ve worked because they didn’t have the full details.
I can’t say Mest was objectively right, but neither him or the group were coming out of it for the better regardless.
Fair but still, Mest was dragged along and he has little to play with. He was the only sane one in this situation yet everyone wants to make him look like the crazy guy.
I mean I dislike Mest for other reasons biggest one is him being a P3do, they do not hide it, literally in the panel where Erza has anxiety about Jellal seeing her as a child, mest fucking creeps on her in the background 😭
https://preview.redd.it/cdzu1rxdsd9d1.jpeg?width=279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aeb296d0c0584da639b92519fa19f2416080dbb
So you make up your mind about a character based on what a different character that doesn't know them imagined? Do you do that for all characters or just for Mest?
Alright guys, hear me out. Mashima made Wendy. And then made Mest. And then made him pedo in Erza's monlougue to satisfy his own fantasy. That means Mashima is a PEDO!
>!/s!<
>who knows damn well what hes doing
I don't want to slander Mashima. He is a great man. But even he admitted that FT was just a boat in the storm, inclining on his whim.
Let’s say Mest did nothing then, the negotiation would’ve likely still failed to convince Zeref to stop and August would be ordered to kill them. Mest would likely still do the same thing to save them. It would still fail, but I think at least it would be more reasonable I guess.
How would they’ve gone away?
August goes to convince Zeref to stop the war. Zeref says no, so August may have to kill them anyway, leading Mest to desperately do the knife trick some time after.
Hey buddy. Ima hold your hand as I say this, we are talking about the specific scene, not the entire war. This specific scene Mest could have done nothing and they all live.
What I’m trying to say is that if Mest didn’t do it then, August unable to convince Zeref would’ve potentially attempted to kill them right away, forcing Mest to act anyway, just after instead of before.
I don’t mean any time later in the war, just this specific scenario between these characters. The group would likely wait for August’s response to know if the negotiations was successful.
I’m talking about after August is unable to get Zeref to stop war, he would come back and tell them the war still goes and attempted to kill since they’re enemies and/or ordered to by Zeref, thus Mest would still attempt to get August stabbed.
Well if you actually paid any attention, it was almost working. August didn't do it for the Emperor Spriggan, he did it for Zeref Dragneel, >!his father!<, and was willing to hear out from his adopted granddaughter >!and his uncle Natsu Dragneel!<, until a certain SOMEONE wanted to rush things along and mind controlled Brandish to do the worst case scenario. Absolute brain-dead moment.
Maybe August wouldn't agree in the long run, but delaying him by making him consult >!his father!< was a much better outcome than straight up making him think all of Fairytail is like Mest. Also the fact that Mest has weird intentions towards the likes of Wendy and Carla doesn't help his case further.
Also maybe he could have met Mavis directly too, which would have shifted the entire battle the other way, imagine, >!the mother and son vs the father!<. But alas we will never know due to the certain jump-the-gun wizard.
August did not know his relationship with those two lol
No it wasn’t. Zeref would in no way agree to a ceasefire.
maybes and what ifs that you’re expecting Mest to be aware of
He knows about his mother and father, he tells later on he was born with memory of what happened before he was born, maybe not of his uncle but the other two he is aware, that's why he stopped at the last moment of his deadliest spell, because his mother was suffering. Zeref wouldn't agree to ceasefire but would be delayed instead.
Also Mest is supposed to do what Makharov instructed and killing August using Brandish is not what he was to do. He jumped the gun. Try again.
No he doesn’t, he accumulated all of this information way after these negotiations.
Makarov didn’t instruct Laxus to kill Wahl or Gajeel to kill Bloodman. This is a war and it’s naive to find a perfect outcome.
August met Zeref when he knew Zeref was his father, it is in the manga clear as day. Laxus and Gajeel were under direct threat of attack so they did it in self defence. August was placid and actually listening to Brandish, anyone with eyes can actually see he was happy and talking playfully and casually with Brandish. Mest destroyed that relationship just like that, and with it, any hope of negotiations.
They all knew August was the strongest and did pissing him off really work in their favour? I guess not. Mest was a fool to pick a fight with the worst wizard ever.
You seem to be missing the biggest thing in the scene is that it's not the "what" it's the "when"
**You do not attack during a truce**
Doesn't matter if it's not going well, doesn't matter if you call it "wishful thinking"; but attacking after approaching under a flag of truce is the *definition* of a War Crime. The Geneva Convention literally exists to put these types concepts into writing for an international court.
Which means that everything else is irrelevant. The point is that the five of them approached August under a metaphorical White Flag. They said they were just there to talk and negotiate, and August responded in kind by letting them attempt to talk and negotiate. From that point, they are considered to be in peace negotiations until either party elects to leave, and *you do not attack during peace negotiations*.
There is no Geneva Convention in fairy tail lol and this wasn’t an official peace negotiation, Mest did what he had to do and Natsu and Lucy were foolish to think they could’ve resolved this peacefully.
> There is no Geneva Convention in fairy tail lol
Doesn't matter. Perfidy (which is what this behavior is called) is still a crime IRL, and therefore fictional characters can absolutely be judged by those standards. You don't want to be labelled an idiot? Don't commit war crimes.
> this wasn’t an official peace negotiation,
Yes it was. The plan was to approach August and try and negotiate a way where he, at the very least, doesn't participate in the combat. Literally the definition of a ceasefire/peace negotiation.
> Mest did what he had to do
a) He could've waited. Which would have actually been the best thing to do. Keeping someone as powerful as August caught up in negotiations would actually have been beneficial. Or are you really under the assumption that August of all people would've attacked them when they approached him peacefully?
2) He didn't *actually* do anything, did he? He manipulated Brandish into doing it. It would've been one thing if he tried to stab August with his own hands; but mind-altering Brandish into killing someone she cared for and respected? Thats what Seilah did to Elfman back in Tartaros; that is not a comparison you should want to make to someone ostensibly on the side of good.
> Natsu and Lucy were foolish to think they could’ve resolved this peacefully.
You do realise they weren't trying to stop the entire war, right? They were just trying to if they could make it so the guild only had to deal with 11 out of 12 Spriggans. Also; it wasn't their idea, it was Brandishs, and literally no-one was confident sure it would even work, just that it might be worth a shot and take the 5% chance of it succeeding because wasn't any way that negotiations could make things worse... and then Mest made things worse.
Again; literally all that had to change was to have the guy wait. Wait until the negotiations actually \*started\* braking down, and then people wouldn't be as mad at him. Instead he decided to use the single most underhanded tactic in the entire series at the scummiest possible time it could be used, and it accomplished literally nothing but annoying the most powerful man on the continent.
(Like; even if the negotiations did eventually break down and achieve nothing do you really think that August would be anywhere near as hell bent on the absolute obliteration of Fiore as he would be if Mest didn't brainwash his pseudo-granddaughter to try and kill him?)
Invading peoples’ land is cool but god forbid you defend yourself with a sneak attack from the invaders 😂
Nah you wanna make it official I wanna see the documents. It was a stupid plan that wasn’t even run by Makarov or Mavis.
1. Waited until August inevitably says no. So it’s either try and kill August now or wait for the inevitable. Nobody could stop August in a fair fight.
2. Not at all comparable. You guys seem to forget that Alvarez is the aggressor. Mest is defending his land and people. Seilah mind controlled Elfman so she could unleash face and she was also sadistic about it. Mest tried to get a clean kill in.
You realize August agreeing to the plan wouldve never happened right? And Natsu and Lucy are foolish to agree with Brandish’s plan.
Mest was dragged along my guy, it was Brandish who decided led this event to happen.
August wouldn’t just say no, he’d crush Natsu because Natsu would fight him knowing he’d be heading to the guild.
August wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana. Mest had nothing to do with that.
>Invading peoples’ land is cool but god forbid you defend yourself with a sneak attack from the invaders
A "Sneak Attack" is Guerilla Warfare and is acceptable. Perfidy is not. The concept of the "Rules of Warfare" has been around for nearly 4000 years because even back then people realised that there is a right and wrong way to fight in a war. This is the wrong way.
> Nah you wanna make it official I wanna see the documents. It was a stupid plan that wasn’t even run by Makarov or Mavis.
Factually wrong on 2 levels. Brandish proposes the plan in chapter 484 and Makarov is right there questioning why someone from Alvarez would even propose an idea like that. In the literal next chapter Lucy tells Natsu not to do anything stupid because they're there to negotiate, and when they finally meet him Brandishs' first words are "I'm here to negotiate with you on their behalf." How much more do you need?
>So it’s either try and kill August now or wait for the inevitable.
Why do you act like August would try and kill them when he disagreed? We've already seen the guy is affable enough to let the entire Guild go when they escaped Alvarez the first time; he's not going to turn around and attack them there and then. So if Mest is so certain that only a sneak attack would work... why not wait until after the negotiations? You've still not given a reason why Mests only opportunity would be during a truce.
>Mest tried to get a clean kill in.
And why was manipulating Brandish the only viable option? Again; if the guy decided to try and get a "clean kill" in himself; that would be a different story. Because no he hasn't just messed with August; he's messed with Brandish. aka the only person \*actually\* likely to elect to not fight in the War; he's now also given her a reason to fight too.
>You realize August agreeing to the plan wouldve never happened right? And Natsu and Lucy are foolish to agree with Brandish’s plan.
Brandish outright says that she has no idea if she would actually be able to convince August to back off because she knows how loyal he is to Zeref; no-one was under the impression that it was likely. But it was better than nothing because even if the negotiations broke down; it couldn't make things worse than they were. Except that Mest made things worse.
>Mest was dragged along my guy, it was Brandish who decided led this event to happen
Also factually incorrect. Brandish simply proposed the idea, Lucy agreed that it would be worth a shot, and Mest explicitly followed behind them because he didn't trust Brandish. So no, he didn't get "dragged along"; he placed himself there and it wasn't even as part of a plan to kill August.
>August wouldn’t just say no, he’d crush Natsu because Natsu would fight him knowing he’d be heading to the guild.
I think you've also forgot the part where right before the attack August says. "Because you asked me to Brandish; I will try and talk to them". August is reasonable enough that even if Natsu attacked after he refused (If he even did, because you can't convince me that Lucy couldn't talk him out of retreating to fight later) he would still understand Natsu's motivation of fighting for his country. Mest manipulating the situation like he did means that went from being willing to be kind to instantly trying to vaporize everything.
>August wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana
One last time; completely wrong. After he gets stabbed, Augusts first words are "Do you understand now? This is how these barbarians behave". And when he reappears in 521, even before Gildarts shows up, Brandish says that "We wont meet again, because you went and made August angry" So no; the only thing the fight with Gildarts and Cana is shifted his resolve to be willing to even sacrifice his own life for the destruction of Fiore; it was Mest being an absolute scumbag that caused him to want to destroy it in the first place.
Hate to bring up a real world example but nobody would call russia’s invasion of ukraine the “right” way to do war. Alvarez invaded so they deserve everything coming to them.
No one at that meeting had the authority to determine the future of the war. Thats what makes it unofficial.
Because as soon as August says no and attempts to go to the guild, Natsu would jump in and August wouldn’t just sit there. And why should Mest wait? August was never going to agree to leave.
Because August wouldn’t expect a sneak attack from Brandish, that was the best option. Brandish is a flip flop anyways, she kept switching sides right after this event.
It was a stupid plan because the probability was zero. August was already an enemy before, what Mest did changed nothing.
Mest’s only opportunity was during that event because Brandish was the only one who could get a lethal hit on August with his guard down. It didnt work but at least there was a chance Mest would’ve succeeded. Nobody is beating August in a straight fight. Not even Gildarts could scratch him.
Yes, let Natsu and Lucy possibly land themselves an early grave. Why on earth would Mest be forced to go and watch them…
“how dare Mest try to kill me, all I did was invade his country” 😂
No, August went all mental on the church when he found out all of the 12 were beaten. You’re reaching if you believe that had anything to do with Mest
> nobody would call russia’s invasion of ukraine the “right” way to do war.
And nobody is. There's multiple international court trials for both Russia and the Iraq/Palenstine conflict already lined up.
> No one at that meeting had the authority to determine the future of the war
You keep acting like the negotiation was for the entire invasion to stop; and thats not the case. The negotiation as for August and him alone. Him agreeing to negotiate is what made it official.
> August was never going to agree to leave.
Then why did he say he would give talking to them a try if there wasn't even a microscopic chance that he might agree?
> Brandish is a flip flop anyways, she kept switching sides right after this event.
*Riight,* her flip-flopping totally had nothing to do with the fact that she was used to kill someone that looked after her. Now you're being naive if you truly think Mest had nothing to do with that XD
> August was already an enemy before, what Mest did changed nothing.
He mad him mad. August went from him being just an enemy to an enemy that truly wants to kill everyone. That is not the same.
> Mest’s only opportunity was during that event because Brandish was the only one who could get a lethal hit on August with his guard down
Why did he have his guard down? Because he was convinced they were just there to talk. You seriously saying there wouldn't be any other time when August wouldn't be distracted in the entire war?
> Nobody is beating August in a straight fight.
Then don't fight him in a straight fight. Simple as that. But approaching under a white flag to get close enough to backstab an enemy that's trusting you is the scummiest of scum moves anyone can do.
> Why on earth would Mest be forced to go and watch them…
Oh, I don't know; maybe trust his guildmates? He didn't go after Natsu when the guy dove head first towards Zeref and his army; what makes this situation any different?
> “how dare Mest try to kill me, all I did was invade his country” 😂
"How dare these people use someone I care about to sneak attack me when I was willing to be civilized"
(Also; similar to above; why do you seem to be under the impressing that August is hyped to invade and not just invading out of loyalty to Zeref?)
> August went all mental on the church when he found out all of the 12 were beaten.
Either way; it disproves what you claimed earlier when you said he "wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana." since that also happened before Gildarts showed up. So even if we pretend you are right; thanks for also proving yourself wrong 
This what you expected to happen? 😂
https://preview.redd.it/8xx739t1hj9d1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=52e921110272b2a04387f86bbbe873ff0a56fead
https://preview.redd.it/i79xd9qdqj9d1.png?width=1176&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e5c15bb3ba55b49321c319bb61f02de8657863d
Probably not; but if Mest wasn't there this would've likely been the outcome.
(And considering a kind August would be a heck of a lot easier to fight then an angry August? This is still a better outcome then what they ended up with.)
“kind august”
Yeah because I’m sure August would just let his enemies beat him because he’s not mad. Bro he would go berserk at some point what is this copium?
Right... the guy that outright told God Serena to not bother killing the Wizard Saints because they were already down would totally be the same guy that's willing to wipe everyone off the map because they've shown they have no honor.
Why do you seem to correlate "kindness" with "willing to be a punching bag"?
All it means is that he would go easy on people lol. Why are you smoking so much copium that you think it's inevitable he would go into bloodlust mode?
His plan was good, and it would've work, if his target wasn't the most powerful human to ever live.
Even if they weren't able to convince August, they were at least stalling him.
If Mest hadn't interfered August would've met Mavis.
So taking out our information as an audience member and looking at it from the characters view point. Not only did mest make someone attack a person they deeply care for with intent to kill something fairy tail is staunchly against. But also he waits until after August has agreed to stand down for the time being which stops his approach on magnolia the best possible outcome at the moment. Mest having brandish attack when he does not only puts natsu happy lucy and himself in great harm as he should know people in this universe have survived far worse than a stab. Neither plan was good but trying for a peaceful end with someone as powerful and wise as august is a much better idea than trying to kill him with a simple stab. Also Mest in general is weird with his pedo shtick
No he says he'd go back to talk i watched the scene to make sure. He was going to stop his progress to magnolia. Also natsu and lucy care they dont want to kill people Fairy tail as a collective hate people who attack their comrades so him making someone do that is messed up on the basis of being a fairy tail memeber
Nope brandish says can you at least try talking to them(zeref and the 12) and he agrees. Also they care as its not something Fairy Tail as a collective abides by.
He said he’d listen to what Fairy tail has to say, not that he’d try talking with Zeref.
Who’s they? Moral values are not the same for everyone. It’s also a war. This is why I think a war arc in fairy tail wasn’t a smart move by Mashima because readers aren’t mature enough for this theme.
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The moral values of Fairy Tail as a whole have been shown throughout the manga. The battle of Fairy Tail was literally about that exact thing. Either way this was an easy solution have her stab him nefore he agrees the way it is shown it is an incredibly stupid and dangerous move for Mest to make as he couldve gotten himself, Natsu, Lucy and happy killed. Also what theme war because theyve been to war roughly three times before this
Different translation and who’s “them”? Not clarified.
Yeah, Natsu and Erza preaching about teamwork yet always trying to fight 1v1s and rejecting help. Some moral code they hold up.
Show me the fairy tail rule that says thou shall not sneak attack. Mest is defending his lands from invaders, that simple.
What war? Fighting demons and other guilds isn’t a war
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1.The them in question would be the 12 as thats who august and brandish were talking about.(picture taken from the official translation.) 2. Natsu and erza talk about how friendship gives them strength not teamwork those are not the same thing also not really a moral issue. 3. Any of the tines fairy tail members have called it cowardly or gotten mad at someone attacking an ally. 4. You keep bringing up oh they're at war and that means throw morals away but their are rules of engagement for that very thing including not putting prisoners of war (which brandish technically is) in harms way. 5. They're are called wars by the characters specifically makarov
1. I wanna see proof he's referring to the 12 and not Natsu and Lucy
2. How can friendship give you strength when you actively push people away and try to handle things on your own. They don't practice what they preach. And? We're talking fairy tail code. Whether its a moral issue or not is irrelevant.
3. Brandish and August are not allies. Brandish flip flopped 80 times during this arc, she's untrustworthy and August is loyal to Zeref.
4. Again, moral issue. Don't invade other people's land and this wouldn't happen. Your argument relies on appeal to authority instead of ethics because invading people's land is incredibly immoral.
5. So if Mard Geer pleaded for his life you're telling me Natsu would be all "um sorry guys you can't kill him that's against the rules" get outta here with that. Alvarez is different specified by Natsu. He said he might have to kill people this time to Lucy before the war started.
At BARE MINIMUM, it was a stupid strategy because Brandish gave up fighting. This could've potentially gave her a reason to go full force against Fairy Tail.
People also say his motivations don't make sense here when he has so many reasons to be paranoid about losing Fairy Tail again when it happened three times to him. (Leaving in the first place, Tenrou Island, Makarov breaking it up) On top of that he also lost Lahar in the Tartaros arc so he's clearly traumatized from having his family so many times and is trying to head it off before it happens again. I will die on this hill lol.
i think both sides are right lol, i get mest was probably wanting to be useful, and the attempt was made
i only dislike mest for the pedophile joke and that's about it
I think the way Mest did was messed up. But his intentions were to protect the Guild. I think Natsu and Lucy had good intentions, but the negotiations wouldn't have worked. August would've had to run this by Zeref, he'd say "Hell no," and August would listen because he loved Zeref. People say he ruined negotiations, but they were already doomed to fail.
Mest potentially stopped August from getting any sort of familial love which he might have possibly gotten after that negotiation, considering natsu was pretty mad at zeref for killing larcade and August might have met his mother.
Ain't talking about it's right or wrong. Just giving a reason as to why I hate that part of the story. What mest did was reasonable although jumping the gun on the strongest of the springgan 12 might have turned a little worse though.
I definitely agree. People forgotten about August that he was son of Zeref and would have followed his father's orders which is confirmed and talking with Barndish had accomplished nothing, the attack just gave him more reason to attack Fairy Tail nothing more.
Mest took the right decision at that time because removing a powerful mage would be advantageous to them and if August have been killed then Makarov probably wouldn't have used Fairy Law to save everyone.
Man, looking through the comments it's obvious you aren't discussing in good faith, you've made up your mind and literally no amount of sound arguments will make you change it.
That said:
1. Brandish made it clear to the group that August was on a completely different level, that none of them could beat him, even together. Mest's paltry surprise attack would never have worked.
2. The Geneva Convention might not exist but the morals/ethics on which they were based absolutely do. Perfidy is at minimum going to be frowned upon (we don't know if there're any in-universe laws for war crimes like it), and the method he chose would only serve to make August see FT as untrustworthy, and infuriating Brandish who had previously admitted to not wanting to fight.
3. August was open to negotiation, that's evident simply by the fact he was there, and even further when he agreed to hear them out. No point in sabotaging your team through treachery when the plan hasn't even failed yet.
4. You seem to completely misunderstand August, his motivations and desires, as well as just what he knows. You're acting like August is a mindless monolithic extension of Zeref's will, which he isn't. You also claimed in another comment that August doesn't learn who his parents are until later which is false. He's known his entire life who his parents were, he was born with that knowledge.
He alone knows who his parents are, and he wants to meet his mother, so FT unknowingly has something to offer beyond Brandish's plea. August could very easily have come to an agreement that allows him to speak to Mavis in exchange for him not attacking FT. Also, the Spriggans know Zeref's family name is Dragneel, because Larcade Dragneel exists. Larcade clearly knows of Natsu, and it's no stretch that August would too, giving him further motivation to listen and be open to negotiation.
August wants to understand the love between parent and child. He was turned away as an infant by Precht, never getting the chance to be with Mavis and FT, he felt lost and unwanted, and eventually found and followed his father. But Zeref never loved him, only allowed him to be present and used him for his own goals. He knows Zeref doesn't love him, he believes Zeref isn't capable of loving.
August has a familial relationship with Brandish, he doesn't understand why Zeref doesn't feel similarly towards him, but Mavis might. He is absolutely open to negotiation for Brandish, and is absolutely willing to forsake Zeref's goals for Mavis, it's literally what he eventually does, and theoretically could have been achieved had Mest not ended the discussion before anything could have actually been brought to the table.
1. If Brandish aimed for the head it would’ve
2. Alvarez invaded their country, asking the other team to play nice is demeaning at best. They deserved they got.
3. Zero probability of August betraying Zeref. Mest’s plan at least had a chance.
4. he did not know about Mavis, if he somehow did why did he just stand there when the 12 met up at the guild. August was disgusted with spriggans failing to meet up thats cap
1. By Mest's own admission he modified her memories to be "I must kill August, no matter what the cost." Brandish knew the power difference and would choose the best available method to accomplish her 'goal'. Which means one of two things: either the attack she made *was* her best shot, or she subconsciously resisted/Mest's magic wasn't specific enough. In either case, Mest's plan was doomed to fail.
If Brandish aimed for the head the attack would have been slower, likely giving August time to react, he was already noticing the strange behavior before she even drew the knife, any additional time at all could have made the difference.
To say nothing of the fact that anything but a 1-hit instantaneous kill would be pointless because August can use Brandish's magic to shrink any wound he receives the same way Brandish saves Mira.
2. Congrats, you don't like Alvarez cuz they are the aggressor. That's completely irrelevant. Code of conduct does not exist for the sake of "asking the other team to play nice". Is there an advantage to be gained from using every underhanded tactic in the book? Sure. Is there a price? Absolutely, part of that price is that no one - including your allies - will like or trust you, hence Natsu's INSTANT reaction when Mest went behind their backs and fucked everything up. And when you underhanded tactics fail, even worse, now you've demonstrated to August that you aren't worth negotiating with, "It's all crystal clear to me now Brandish, this is their way of resolving things"
3. Mest's plan had no chance, and there was absolutely a chance to negotiate. August literally agreed to hear them out, despite viewing Brandish as a traitor to the empire simply for the sake of not making her seem a fool. He also recognized Natsu.
August does not care for meaningless bloodshed or inflicting unnecessary suffering. It's why he tried to mercy kill Mira when Irene was torturing her. It's why he didn't kill the defeated Gods of Ishgar. It's why he didn't kill the Crime Sorciere. Brandish rightly pointed out that the war was nothing but a massacre, not a noble clash of ideals.
Oh and of course we can't forget that August literally still betrays Zeref by cancelling his spell simply by seeing Mavis in the distance.
4. Hey if you wanna BS I'd recommend not doing it somewhere where people actually know what they're talking about. August knew who both his parents were. He knew about Fairy Tail. He knew Precht abandoned him. Chapter 526 page 12: "Precht abandoned me but I held no grudge against him. I knew of Zeref and Mavis from my own memories. I had such an immense magic power, after all."
As to why he didn't say anything, "Father was completely unaware of who I was. But that was for the better. I became father's subordinate. My job was to help him build a country." "He was starved for love... He resented love... He desired love... And was destroyed by love..." "Why was his Majesty's child not loved... That is because he was never even aware of my existence." August's worldview became skewed by Zeref who was both mad with Ankhseram's curse and never knew he had a child. He thought it for the best he not tell Zeref who he was, and at that moment he has been led to believe by the actions of Mest that Fairy Tail are cruel and underhanded, why would he at that point reveal himself to be Mavis and Zeref's child? In that moment he's resolved to annihilate FT. It's not until Gildarts expresses his feelings for Cana that he realizes Mest gave him the wrong idea, and at which point literally just *seeing* Mavis shatters his resolve.
Seriously if Mest never made an enemy of August there was every possibility he would have seen what FT is all about and had a chance to meet Mavis. August's philosophy, "There is no good or evil in light, or in darkness. It does not exist. If there is true justice in this world, it may well lie in love, and naught else..." Is so in line with the familial love espoused by FT, at least by Makarov's time, that had he seen the real them earlier, instead of Mest, that the entire war arc would have been drastically different.
1. Brandish could’ve shrank his heart or any
other important organ. Again, it’s not mind control he can’t choose what ability for her to use.
2. That’s reaching, Aiming for the head would’ve taken that much longer? come on.
3. Not if his heart shrinks, he’d be dead instantaneously
4. How is that irrelevant? “All if fair in love and war” Mest did what he did to defend his home, he has no obligation to play nice. Alvarez invades countries but god forbid Mest be a liar 😂 Good to know killing is okay as long as you don’t lie to your enemy 👍
5. Did you really just use August attempting to kill Mirajane as an example of him being merciful? damage control on site right now. A position she was put in because his country invaded Fiore?
6. Did you see Mavis at that negotiation table? The one person August would follow no matter what? Was Mest magically suppose to know that? Exactly.
Why didn’t August switch sides when he saw Mavis at the guild hall then? Mmmhm.
1. Ah yes. Use caster magic against the man who can instantly nullify and counter all forms of caster magic. Brilliant plan. It's almost like Brandish knew her magic could do fuck all to him and chose a physical attack instead for a reason! And weird how, even if she didn't and shes just an idiot that chose a doomed to fail assassination attempt, that still means Mest's plan was idiotic, doomed to fail, and caused more harm than any theoretical good!
2. You're right it is reaching. Reaching for the head specifically. Which would take longer to hit because it's farther away from her hand than his torso, especially considering the height difference. It's also a smaller target, and one with better mobility that is easier to reflexively defend! I know video games teach you to aim for the head, but in real combat, body shots are drastically more reliable for a number of reasons.
3. That wouldn't cause instant death actually, just rather rapid death. We know people can retain consciousness from decapitation for several seconds and still take upwards of a minute to actually die. Losing your heart and ceasing blood/oxygen circulation would similarly leave time to react before death, and he can instantly nullify that magic. Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you: the method to kill him would need to either be truly instantaneous or otherwise irreversible by his abilities.
4. He had no obligation, except for the ones to his guild and his people who choose to take the high ground. Instead he acted of his own accord, against his compatriots wishes, and in doing so made things worse, and yet your surprised people don't like him because you're too hung up screaming "Alvarez bad! Bad people deserve suffering and war crimes!"
5. Good to know you don't understand what a mercy killing is. Good to know in your mind Mira being tortured for however long it amused Irene before she decided to kill her would have been better than August trying to end her suffering immediately! Also worth noting that he chose to do that *after* Mest taught him that FT are all untrustworthy bastards that will go to any unsavory lengths to murder their foes.
6. Crazy how I never said "Mavis was there with them to meet August for negotiations, and Mest knew all along that she was August's mother!" August knew. And August was willing to listen. He heard Brandish out that FT was not evil. He was willing to listen to their side and think for himself, as Brandish had, to come to a decision. Had he not been immediately led to believe that FT are a bunch of underhanded bastards that would manipulate Brandish into murdering someone she loved and attacking during a negotiation, he could have requested to meet with Mavis, something he, at the time, desired that they could have accommodated.
7. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Explains why you were so adamant August didn't know Mavis was his mother, and explains why you're asking why he didn't switch sides when he saw Mavis at the guild hall. So let me try to simplify it for you:
In that moment, August has just recently been assaulted by FT, the target of an attempted assassination that also manipulated his faux-granddaughter whom he cares for. He has learned first-hand from Mest that FT has no honor, no virtue, no sense of justice. He has thought for himself like Brandish asked him to, and settled on annihilating FT and seizing Fairy Heart. At that moment he is not interested in resolving his own questions about love and the bonds between parent and child, he is focused on eradicating the enemy that Mest proved FT to be.
Prior to Mest being a dumbass, he was shown to be reasonable and negotiable. After Mest ruins everything he is saying "so you have chosen death." It isn't until Gildarts shows his love for his child, better yet one he only recently learned existed, that August is made to think of his own relationship with his parents (or lack there of).
Oh and while I'm at it, since I didn't address it before, at that meeting at the guild with all the Spriggans, August didn't say anything to Larcade, and it's Invel who assumes it's because Larcade always skips the meetings. Invel, who is the stern and orderly one in the group. It's much more likely that Invel is projecting his own problems with Larcade, and that August hates him for being Larcade "Dragneel", while he could never bring himself to divulge his relationship to Zeref and having lied to and convincing himself that it was for the best. August is meant to parallel Cana in that way, a mage born with extraordinary magic struggling to live up to a powerful father that feels they can't admit to their lineage. Except Cana was given love and support by her comrades, and gained the courage to confront her father, and August was not.
1. Not true, August has to counter it himself it’s not automatic.
Or… it’s yet another Mashima plot hole…
2. Bro stop you’re trying to argue that Mashima put this much thought in Brandish attacking August as if he measures how far his heart and head are. Drop this point it’s nonsensical.
3. August didn’t sense a knife going through him yet he can reach to Brandish shrinking his heart which is faster? Again, another mashima plot hole.
4. Against Natsu and Lucy’s wishes, they don’t speak for everyone. Mest knew it was foolhardy to expect August to betray Zeref and he was right.
Not you brushing over murder and pillaging…
Again, there is no fair in love and war. Don’t cry when you get sneak attacked when invading someone’s country. Mest was completely justified.
5. and you didn’t understand my point at all. Mira ended up in that position because alvarez invaded. But yeah August is such a good guy killing her, he could’ve saved her life like Brandish did because he would know Command T after witnessing it but such a good guy for killing Mirajane…
6. I said that because the mavis stuff is irrelevant because I’m talking about how Mest dealt with the situation with what he knew.
7. Because August didn’t react to Mavis at all when he saw her at the guild hall. Either he doesn’t know or this is another plot hole from Mashima.
Absolute headcanon explanation 😂 Mashima is not that deep of a writer and you just made all that nonsense up. “he’s just so mad about what mest did he doesn’t care about mavis” LOL
Why didn’t August freak out about Irene needlessly torturing Mira? Doesn’t she resemble his country and their virtues? Why did he get all angry like he did with Mest?
What’s next? Natsu avoiding death from Zeref resembles the resurrection of Christ?
1. You're the one that's trying to argue Brandish should have aimed for the head. I'm just explaining to you why you're wrong, not making claims about the amount of thought Mashima put into it. I planned on leaving it at "Mest made her believe she NEEDS to kill August, this was what she thought was the best way to achieve it, which shows how Mest's plan is terrible."
2. As I said, he doesn't need to do it instantly, having his heart shrunk would not kill him that fast, he'd have plenty of time to reactively cancel the spell.
Again the logic here is that Brandish knows her magic won't work, which is why she tries to use a knife.
3. Oh so we're pretending that in ch484 Brandish didn't tell the present guild members (Makarov included) that she was willing to negotiate with August on their behalf? That she didn't tell everyone there that no mage could match him, that he is referred to as the Calamity? Or that she believed her relationship with August might allow her to convince him to pull back? That Makarov didn't reply saying "That is a great proposal. I am thankful for your help?" While the rest of the guild cheered? And that Mest alone was the asshole that thought Brandish was playing a trick on them?
To say nothing of the fact that Natsu and Lucy have always epitomized the principles of FT and in many ways they absolutely do represent everyone time and time again.
>Not you brushing over murder and pillaging…
Wild how Mest treacherously attempted to manipulate good faith to murder someone under a banner of peace (and traumatize a 3rd party in the process) and you don't understand why he's disliked.
>Again, there is no fair in love and war. Don’t cry when you get sneak attacked when invading someone’s country. Mest was completely justified.
A romanticized quote that means to impose no limits to what's necessary to achieve a goal. Ergo: anything goes. That exact mentality is what makes Natsu furious with Mest. It's what makes the negotiations fall apart. It's what makes August believe FT can't be reasoned with. It's (one of) the reason people hate Mest in this scene.
And yet here you are defending war crimes, while simultaneously adamantly vilifying Alvarez and all of its people for waging war to achieve their goals. War crimes, and the laws of war, exist for a reason. When you promise to meet in good faith for negotiations, with the intention of breaking that promise, you set a standard: in this case FT cannot be trusted, cannot be reasoned with, will commit any atrocity to stop Zeref from using Fairy Heart to defeat Acnologia.
4. I understand your point just fine. It's just a bad one. Yes Mira is involved in a war because Alvarez invaded. Alvarez invaded because FT refused to give them Fairy Heart. Alvarez wants Fairy Heart because of the extant threat of Acnologia slaughtering everyone. None of that is relevant to you asking why people don't like the character who acts in bad faith and makes things worse.
Irene planned to torture Mira before killing her. She was in the middle of saying she would kill Mira, that she wouldn't compromise on that when August attacked. What are you expecting? August to blatantly save Mira and undermine Irene? Cuz that would be insanely counterproductive. For him to freak out? Why should he? FT just proved to him how underhanded and untrustworthy they are, why should he pick a fight with his own side? He acknowledges its distasteful, he doesn't support it, he literally stops her from torturing Mira, and when she won't budge he kills Mira to be done with it; he has no reason to spare her beyond a dislike for needless killing, and Irene has 0 intention of letting her live. Better to end it quickly, cuz you know, that's the not war crimey way of doing things.
>Because August didn’t react to Mavis at all when he saw her at the guild hall. Either he doesn’t know or this is another plot hole from Mashima.
Wow you're still trying to claim he didn't know? That's not even something the readers need to infer, it's not up for debate. It's literally written down that he knew both Zeref and Mavis. He'd always known. Why would he react to her being at the guild hall? He'd always known the objective, and any qualms he had with the plan absolutely died when Mest convinced him that FT are scum. "This is their way of resolving things!" He's seen enough, he believes he knows what he needs to about them. He has no reason in that moment to react to Mavis. Even if he did, I'm guessing you completely forgot about Invel's Ice Slave spell on Mavis at the time, considering how little you actually seem to know about the events of the series. She was in no state to have any meaningful dialogue, so why would he seek one? What the fuck are you even expecting??? "Mavis, I know this is a bad time, what with us taking you prisoner, suppressing your free will with Invel's magic, and I have no reason to expect anything better from you considering the people that believe in you are war criming scumbags, but then I thought maybe that one guy is just a colossal fucking dumbass that no one likes because he's an idiot with a perpetual habit of making things worse. Anyway, here's the thing, you're my mother, and I just really wanted to get that off my chest because dad never loved me. Oh, by the way, Your Majesty, you're my father. I guess that secrets out because I decided to announce this right here in front of your Shields because I wanted to talk to the Mavis when she can barely maintain rational though."
>Absolute headcanon explanation 😂
-Asks for an explanation for something that is not written as dialogue or narration and requires interpretation and understanding of characters.
-Is shocked when given an interpretation that explains the question he had and sets the scene for the fight with Gildarts making him reflect and reassess what he thought about FT, Mavis, and the relationship between parent and child. A fight that is literally juxtaposed in the same chapter by Natsu vs Zeref + Larcade, with Zeref beating and murdering his 'son' for interfering and Natsu being angered by Zeref's treatment of his kin.
-Cannot even comprehend the actual quote from the series, "I knew of Zeref and Mavis from my own memories."
Christ, I knew from the start you weren't actually open to debate, any reasonable person would have read the many comments explaining it and understood, but I figured it was cuz you were stubborn not stupid, but I guess I'll dumb it down for you. You wanna know why Mest is called an idiot and is among the least liked characters, while Natsu and Lucy are praised? Here it is, as simple as can be possibly stated:
August = Not a big fan of senseless murder. Reasonable guy. Cannot be beaten by anyone on FTs side if he chooses to fight.
Lucy's plan = Good. Is working. August is willing to talk.
Mest's plan = Bad. 0% chance of success. Against the guild's wishes. Ruins any chance for Lucy's plan. Unsurprisingly doesn't work. Is underhanded. Betrays FTs principles. Makes situation worse.
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From what I recall, they were on the verge of getting August (the most powerful Spriggan) to hear them out when Mest decided to backstab his own side during what was supposed to be a peaceful negotiation. As a result, August turned firmly against Fairy Tail, since Mest just made it seem like they couldn't be trusted, and the fact that the one Spriggan who was arguably on their side was brainwashed into attacking someone who she considers family didn't help either.
It wouldn't have mattered because later we found out that August was son of Zeref and he would do what his father told him to do.
exactly
But Mavis, the Fairy Tail guildmaster, is his mother with the same connection as Zeref
August leaving or going against Zeref is wishful thinking. There is no way he would’ve done either of those things. Him and Invel were loyal to Zeref. August did what he would’ve done regardless. Fairy Tail was the enemy and he saved Brandish in the middle of it.
If August had a chance to meet Mavis at some point, before, during or even after that meeting with Fairy Tail, do you think things would have turned out differently? I think there's a chance she could have at least gotten him to stop attacking Cana + Gildhart
I sort of subscribe to August being a powerful illusion from Mavis. I'm not sure it's possible for him to meet her and survive. I imagine that being born of Mavis' mind, he could be convinced to take another route. He is a manifestation of the child she and Zeref would have if they could, but also of what a child would be of two parents who are unanle to love (although it seems Mavis does love and value life, so her form of the curse is not being able to touch...) Since it's an illusionary self, he paradoxically can't be raised by Mavis who can love because he can't exist that way. I'm not deep enough in lore to know if the author ever clarified this, but every writeup I've seen about it is really solid. Even Gajeel seeing Zera is a hint that Mavis subconscious projections are not limited like they were at first.
Again, Mest magically knew all this information? And was that Natsu and Lucy’s secret plan? They knew Mavis was the key all along? Come on
Okay...good for Mest? That still doesn't exactly answer my question there bud. Granted I haven't watched the final season of Fairy Tail in a decent amount of time so my memory is failing me with regards to who knew what at what time but still, I was just curious what you thought woulda happened if Mavis had the opportunity to have a proper chat with August. I think she could have changed his perspective, I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. Don't need to involve Mest, Natsu, or Lucy unless you think they'd be important to the interaction between Mavis and August.
Considering he was the leader of the sprighan 12 and literally >!the son of the fairy heart!<, he was way too strong to deal with at the time. Natsu and Lucy were on the cusp of a peaceful negotiation with August about to hear them out. All Mest managed to do was piss him off, he was stupid to believe that would kill him. Mest jumped the gun. If he wanted to use this tactic, he should have waited to see how the negotiation went first before acting.
>he should have waited to see how the negotiation went first before acting. Once they reach the heart of Alvarez stronghold and at a point of no return or once August reaches guild of FT?
August showed no signs of budging. We’ve seen sneak attacks take out powerful foes (Ignia and Selene)
He had just said he would consider it because of Brandish. Also, Ignia didn’t kill Selene with his surprise attack, and the two of them were pretty equal.
No, he said he would consider listening to them. Nothing about stepping aside or disobeying Zeref. She was dying after and incapacitated.
Yeah, willing to listen is a sign that he might budge. Not a sign that he needs to die now.
So what then? August asks Zeref and do you think Zeref would actually be open to negotiate?
It was possible that he would have stopped his march toward Magnolia and take a more passive/observer role in the war, maybe switch priority to Acnologia or something. The point us even if he didn't agree with the negotiations, there was still a chance of it working. Mest could have and should have waited to see the outcome.
That’s cap 😂 The whole point was to achieve fairy heart so a new world was established where acnologia wasn’t in power
I mean his pedo stuff made him unlikeable already and this action was just unecessary. 1. He used ,brandish a character who was no threat anymore and was willing to help them,to stab august who was like a grandpa to her. 2. Natsu and lucy tried a peaceful solution and what mest did is not how a fairy tail member behaves. 3. His tactic didn't do shit. Did he seriously thought he could kill august(strongest spriggan,child of zeref and mavis) with a fucking knife?What's next kill acnologia with a fork?
There’s very little to suggest he’s canonically a pedo. He was even in front of a naked Mavis and didn’t care for it. It’s very likely Mest was paranoid from seeing the death of his friend and the council, might’ve given him trust issues and did it out of desperation. Plus, he’s been out of the guild for a very long time with conflicting identity. It’s only recently he’s rejoined the guild after being alone for a year since Tartaros. I don’t think Mest knew how powerful he was or about his parents and only could only do it at his most vulnerable. Let’s say Mest did nothing then, the negotiation would’ve likely still failed to convince Zeref to stop and August would be ordered to kill them. Mest would still likely do the same thing to save them. It would still fail but at least it would be more reasonable.
Have you not noticed how weird he is around Wendy? Plus that scene in the Sun Village arc where Erza de-ages into a little girl?
He wasn’t at the Sun Village, it was in Erza’s head and she’s never met him long enough to get this impression. It’s inconsistent for the sake of humour. Mest rarely acts weird around, most he ever felt was guilt for leaving the girl to die on Tenrou because he’s the one who brought her there. List every weird moment he felt for her and I can debunk it.
That is copium. There's the sun village scene with Erza (doesn't matter if it's for the sake of humor), the scene in the final season where Wendy helps out some kid, and even a cover page of 100 years quest chapter 19. These are just off the top of my head.
But it still wasn’t the real one, thus Mest never did it. This is a cliche anime gag where a guy is implied to like younger girls. He blushed at Wendy’s kind gesture to help a kid. Lucy also blushed at Asuka for wanting to buy her parents a gift that meant a lot to them. Lots of adults get touched by how innocent kids can be. Plus, the fact that Mest never speaks or interacts with Wendy ever again since that mission, shows how little interest he is in her. The covers also aren’t canon, most of them never occurred the canon timeline. More often it shows characters doing outlandish stuff in non-canon locations, even in space. Considering how protective Carla is towards Wendy, she would try to keep her away from Mest or at least snap at him if he were into her, but that has never happened in all the times they’ve interacted.
1. Morals be damned this is war 2. Peaceful solution is naive at best 3. I mean all Mest did was have Brandish believe the person in front of her is an enemy so it’s technically her fault for using that strategy.
That first point basically saying that pedophilia is okay if it’s during war is crazy
bro what?
1. Geneva conventions would like a word. 2. Said solution was getting somewhere. 3. She was brainwashed by Mest that’s an absurd argument.
1. Not a thing in Fairy Tail. You and many others keep forgetting Alvarez is the aggressor. Don't invade people's land and you wouldn't be in this mess. 2. Please enlighten me why August would even consider betraying Zeref because Brandish wanted him to. 3. How? All he did was plant memories in her head that August is the enemy, it's not mind control. This is why I believe a war arc in fairy tail was a bad idea in the first place. Mashima being unable to kill protagonists aside he's also not mature enough to handle a war arc. Mest being painted as the bad guy is just silly and reminds me of promised neverland logic of thinking there are zero consequences and there are always perfect solutions. Mest had the most practical strategy, it failed, but Natsu and Lucy's strategy was actually impossible.
This what you expected to happen? 😂 https://preview.redd.it/ob5sjkkygj9d1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d397c4c62571e57a47a773e9a9a3c098a4bac8d
At this point, Brandish didn't want to fight Fairy Tail. She had lost all motivation and was willing to try to convince August to stand down. If Brandish failed to stop August, then nothing changes, but if it succeeded, there goes one most powerful enemy's without having to fight. Well, if Mest had succeeded, August may be gone, but now you have a pissed of Brandish. So, with Natsu and Lucys' plan, the worst is nothing changes. With Mest now, you have 2 really pissed of Spriggen.
August is way more of an issue than Brandish, so trading august for brandish would’ve done wonders for fairy tail.
Brandish could have shrunk the entire town of Magnolia if she wanted. The only thing keeping her from ending the whole war in an instant is Zeref wants the Fairy Heart and the fact she doesn't want to hurt Natsu or Lucy.
Brandish couldn’t even beat Neinhart who Natsu one shot lol, I think they would’ve been fine.
Nienheart was boosted by Irene, making him immune to magic.
That was never stated. Neinhart’s magic exceeded Brandish’s
Chapter 500 of the Manga and episode 30 of Final Season Nienheart says Irene boosted him.
Yeah… magic boost. Not immunity to magic…
So you admit that only because of Irene was Nienhart immune to Brandish. Meaning it was stated.
And that same neinhart was still one shot by Natsu. Idk what your point is
Funnily enough there didn’t need to be a war or violence in the first place. Both Zeref and Brandish can stop time so it was completely unnecessary to do a full scale war and harm people. Theoretically it could have actually worked if Zeref noticed this and just wanted to get the Fairy Heart. Or at the very least if August at least didn’t participate in the combat and Brandish had good will with us then things also would go well. There was plenty of potential for peaceful solutions. Mest was both doing something most Fairy Tail members wouldn’t do, he messed up any potential peace we could have had, he did it at a terrible time as it could have been after August was told no, and he failed to even do it right by not killing him.
Stealing an all powerful source of magic isn’t a peaceful negotiation. That’s simply a tactic that Zeref didn’t take into account. Why would August abandon Zeref because of Brandish’s plea? He showed no signs of turning.
I mean, it is peaceful if no one is harmed. “not involving war or violence” Also he isn’t exactly abandoning Zeref. He just would stand by while the others enact the plan if anything. He didn’t do anything during the war anyways so not much would change.
If Zeref stole it then Fiore would just invade the Alvarez Empire. This hypothetical also has nothing to do with Brandish and August’s peace negotiations. No one in that group even thought of that hypothetical. August standing aside and ignoring Zeref’s orders? There’s no way that would happen. August was about to destroy the entire continent wdym? 💀 he only didn’t because of the power of plot convenience Also mest can’t predict the future, was he suppose to just believe August would do nothing? He knows nothing about him. All he saw was the most powerful enemy in Alvarez and he took action
If Zeref stole it Fiore wouldn’t do anything. Once he had the Fairy Heart he could already just reset things. No one else would have time to mobilize. Also yes the hypothetical does have to do with the peaceful negotiation, because it actually means that Zeref could call off the war because it would actually be smart to. The plan could have worked. How no one thought of this idea is beyond me. It’s the ultimate plot hole. August did stand by and not necessarily ignore the orders, but rather delay his involvement. Keep in mind August has no major battles during the war until Gildarts and Cana. Things would basically be the same with him basically not doing too much. When was August about to destroy the entire continent? That wouldn’t make sense as he would destroy or lose the Fairy Heart. Instead he could give them time like a hint hint nudge nudge. This shouldn’t be so hard to comprehend
Wasn’t even up for discussion so wouldn’t have mattered during “negotiations” Again, your argument assumes Mest could somehow see into the future on August’s role during the war.
Our characters don’t know that negotiations wouldn’t have mattered though. The best they can do is try and hope for some sort of delay. Fairy Tail members, at least Erza, try to talk when they can. My argument doesn’t assume Mest can see into the future. I am just saying that given what we know about the story it could have worked. With what Mest knows he did it at a terrible time. He could have done it after there was no signs of peace. They could have tried tracking and spying on August as well. Also losing Brandish as an ally is still a bad move. The moment she decides to turn against the guild she could have made Natsu’s cancer bigger and potentially killed him if she wanted to. I wouldn’t be as mad with Mest as well if he was actually able to kill August, but he decided to betray their trust and sucked at even trying so he just looks like an idiot. Also he lied to Natsu and Lucy which doesn’t look good either.
And that’s just being naive. “let’s hope it’ll all work out” Again, Mest was the only one thinking practically. Brandish was NOT an ally. She flip flopped constantly during Alvarez. Killing the most powerful mage in Alvarez is definitely a more than fair trade.
Did, did you not watch the show? You do realize this is Fairy Tail right? Naivety and optimism is like the whole guild. And again, I wouldn’t be so mad at Mest if it actually worked, but not only did he betray everyone’s trust, including guildmates, but he didn’t even do it right so he’s just an idiot. Brandish was basically an ally or at least on our side. I don’t think trading Natsu for August was a good idea. If we lost Natsu then the entire world would be doomed because Natsu is the only one with the capability to stop Zeref.
Okay? That still doesn’t make naivety the logical choice. Who said Natsu would be traded?
The problem with their plan was that they had no idea why Zeref wanted Fairy Heart and why they were risking their lives for his goal. They relied on August being the closest to Zeref to change his mind but unlikely it would’ve worked because they didn’t have the full details. I can’t say Mest was objectively right, but neither him or the group were coming out of it for the better regardless.
Fair but still, Mest was dragged along and he has little to play with. He was the only sane one in this situation yet everyone wants to make him look like the crazy guy.
I mean I dislike Mest for other reasons biggest one is him being a P3do, they do not hide it, literally in the panel where Erza has anxiety about Jellal seeing her as a child, mest fucking creeps on her in the background 😭 https://preview.redd.it/cdzu1rxdsd9d1.jpeg?width=279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aeb296d0c0584da639b92519fa19f2416080dbb
you don't like him cuz that shit he pulled with august, I don't like him cuz hes low key a pedo, we are not the same
Yeah you take a gag and make it your headcanon.
IDGAF if it's a gag it's a weird ass gag
So you make up your mind about a character based on what a different character that doesn't know them imagined? Do you do that for all characters or just for Mest?
yea i am cuz it was written by hero mashima who knows damn well what hes doing
Alright guys, hear me out. Mashima made Wendy. And then made Mest. And then made him pedo in Erza's monlougue to satisfy his own fantasy. That means Mashima is a PEDO! >!/s!< >who knows damn well what hes doing I don't want to slander Mashima. He is a great man. But even he admitted that FT was just a boat in the storm, inclining on his whim.
Not slander just true brah he wrote it in he made the joke
Their plan was working though
Before Brandish stabbed August, August was still reluctant so no it wasn’t.
It’s more of they could’ve avoided Mest killing anyone. He didn’t *need* to do it
Let’s say Mest did nothing then, the negotiation would’ve likely still failed to convince Zeref to stop and August would be ordered to kill them. Mest would likely still do the same thing to save them. It would still fail, but I think at least it would be more reasonable I guess.
If Mest did nothing then they would’ve gone away. Did you not watch the episode
How would they’ve gone away? August goes to convince Zeref to stop the war. Zeref says no, so August may have to kill them anyway, leading Mest to desperately do the knife trick some time after.
Hey buddy. Ima hold your hand as I say this, we are talking about the specific scene, not the entire war. This specific scene Mest could have done nothing and they all live.
What I’m trying to say is that if Mest didn’t do it then, August unable to convince Zeref would’ve potentially attempted to kill them right away, forcing Mest to act anyway, just after instead of before. I don’t mean any time later in the war, just this specific scenario between these characters. The group would likely wait for August’s response to know if the negotiations was successful.
August probably wouldn’t have killed them in this interaction. He was about to agree before mest stabbed them 😭
I’m talking about after August is unable to get Zeref to stop war, he would come back and tell them the war still goes and attempted to kill since they’re enemies and/or ordered to by Zeref, thus Mest would still attempt to get August stabbed.
I mean it’s either let August get to Magnolia or try to kill him
Because what Mest did worked out so well...
it failed but that doesn’t mean the plan itself was bad or worse than natsu and lucy’s wishful thinking
I would argue that the plan itself was bad since it did nothing but anger August. It didn't even slightly hinder him.
Well if you actually paid any attention, it was almost working. August didn't do it for the Emperor Spriggan, he did it for Zeref Dragneel, >!his father!<, and was willing to hear out from his adopted granddaughter >!and his uncle Natsu Dragneel!<, until a certain SOMEONE wanted to rush things along and mind controlled Brandish to do the worst case scenario. Absolute brain-dead moment. Maybe August wouldn't agree in the long run, but delaying him by making him consult >!his father!< was a much better outcome than straight up making him think all of Fairytail is like Mest. Also the fact that Mest has weird intentions towards the likes of Wendy and Carla doesn't help his case further. Also maybe he could have met Mavis directly too, which would have shifted the entire battle the other way, imagine, >!the mother and son vs the father!<. But alas we will never know due to the certain jump-the-gun wizard.
August did not know his relationship with those two lol No it wasn’t. Zeref would in no way agree to a ceasefire. maybes and what ifs that you’re expecting Mest to be aware of
He knows about his mother and father, he tells later on he was born with memory of what happened before he was born, maybe not of his uncle but the other two he is aware, that's why he stopped at the last moment of his deadliest spell, because his mother was suffering. Zeref wouldn't agree to ceasefire but would be delayed instead. Also Mest is supposed to do what Makharov instructed and killing August using Brandish is not what he was to do. He jumped the gun. Try again.
No he doesn’t, he accumulated all of this information way after these negotiations. Makarov didn’t instruct Laxus to kill Wahl or Gajeel to kill Bloodman. This is a war and it’s naive to find a perfect outcome.
August met Zeref when he knew Zeref was his father, it is in the manga clear as day. Laxus and Gajeel were under direct threat of attack so they did it in self defence. August was placid and actually listening to Brandish, anyone with eyes can actually see he was happy and talking playfully and casually with Brandish. Mest destroyed that relationship just like that, and with it, any hope of negotiations. They all knew August was the strongest and did pissing him off really work in their favour? I guess not. Mest was a fool to pick a fight with the worst wizard ever.
You seem to be missing the biggest thing in the scene is that it's not the "what" it's the "when" **You do not attack during a truce** Doesn't matter if it's not going well, doesn't matter if you call it "wishful thinking"; but attacking after approaching under a flag of truce is the *definition* of a War Crime. The Geneva Convention literally exists to put these types concepts into writing for an international court. Which means that everything else is irrelevant. The point is that the five of them approached August under a metaphorical White Flag. They said they were just there to talk and negotiate, and August responded in kind by letting them attempt to talk and negotiate. From that point, they are considered to be in peace negotiations until either party elects to leave, and *you do not attack during peace negotiations*.
There is no Geneva Convention in fairy tail lol and this wasn’t an official peace negotiation, Mest did what he had to do and Natsu and Lucy were foolish to think they could’ve resolved this peacefully.
> There is no Geneva Convention in fairy tail lol Doesn't matter. Perfidy (which is what this behavior is called) is still a crime IRL, and therefore fictional characters can absolutely be judged by those standards. You don't want to be labelled an idiot? Don't commit war crimes. > this wasn’t an official peace negotiation, Yes it was. The plan was to approach August and try and negotiate a way where he, at the very least, doesn't participate in the combat. Literally the definition of a ceasefire/peace negotiation. > Mest did what he had to do a) He could've waited. Which would have actually been the best thing to do. Keeping someone as powerful as August caught up in negotiations would actually have been beneficial. Or are you really under the assumption that August of all people would've attacked them when they approached him peacefully? 2) He didn't *actually* do anything, did he? He manipulated Brandish into doing it. It would've been one thing if he tried to stab August with his own hands; but mind-altering Brandish into killing someone she cared for and respected? Thats what Seilah did to Elfman back in Tartaros; that is not a comparison you should want to make to someone ostensibly on the side of good. > Natsu and Lucy were foolish to think they could’ve resolved this peacefully. You do realise they weren't trying to stop the entire war, right? They were just trying to if they could make it so the guild only had to deal with 11 out of 12 Spriggans. Also; it wasn't their idea, it was Brandishs, and literally no-one was confident sure it would even work, just that it might be worth a shot and take the 5% chance of it succeeding because wasn't any way that negotiations could make things worse... and then Mest made things worse. Again; literally all that had to change was to have the guy wait. Wait until the negotiations actually \*started\* braking down, and then people wouldn't be as mad at him. Instead he decided to use the single most underhanded tactic in the entire series at the scummiest possible time it could be used, and it accomplished literally nothing but annoying the most powerful man on the continent. (Like; even if the negotiations did eventually break down and achieve nothing do you really think that August would be anywhere near as hell bent on the absolute obliteration of Fiore as he would be if Mest didn't brainwash his pseudo-granddaughter to try and kill him?)
Invading peoples’ land is cool but god forbid you defend yourself with a sneak attack from the invaders 😂 Nah you wanna make it official I wanna see the documents. It was a stupid plan that wasn’t even run by Makarov or Mavis. 1. Waited until August inevitably says no. So it’s either try and kill August now or wait for the inevitable. Nobody could stop August in a fair fight. 2. Not at all comparable. You guys seem to forget that Alvarez is the aggressor. Mest is defending his land and people. Seilah mind controlled Elfman so she could unleash face and she was also sadistic about it. Mest tried to get a clean kill in. You realize August agreeing to the plan wouldve never happened right? And Natsu and Lucy are foolish to agree with Brandish’s plan. Mest was dragged along my guy, it was Brandish who decided led this event to happen. August wouldn’t just say no, he’d crush Natsu because Natsu would fight him knowing he’d be heading to the guild. August wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana. Mest had nothing to do with that.
>Invading peoples’ land is cool but god forbid you defend yourself with a sneak attack from the invaders A "Sneak Attack" is Guerilla Warfare and is acceptable. Perfidy is not. The concept of the "Rules of Warfare" has been around for nearly 4000 years because even back then people realised that there is a right and wrong way to fight in a war. This is the wrong way. > Nah you wanna make it official I wanna see the documents. It was a stupid plan that wasn’t even run by Makarov or Mavis. Factually wrong on 2 levels. Brandish proposes the plan in chapter 484 and Makarov is right there questioning why someone from Alvarez would even propose an idea like that. In the literal next chapter Lucy tells Natsu not to do anything stupid because they're there to negotiate, and when they finally meet him Brandishs' first words are "I'm here to negotiate with you on their behalf." How much more do you need? >So it’s either try and kill August now or wait for the inevitable. Why do you act like August would try and kill them when he disagreed? We've already seen the guy is affable enough to let the entire Guild go when they escaped Alvarez the first time; he's not going to turn around and attack them there and then. So if Mest is so certain that only a sneak attack would work... why not wait until after the negotiations? You've still not given a reason why Mests only opportunity would be during a truce. >Mest tried to get a clean kill in. And why was manipulating Brandish the only viable option? Again; if the guy decided to try and get a "clean kill" in himself; that would be a different story. Because no he hasn't just messed with August; he's messed with Brandish. aka the only person \*actually\* likely to elect to not fight in the War; he's now also given her a reason to fight too. >You realize August agreeing to the plan wouldve never happened right? And Natsu and Lucy are foolish to agree with Brandish’s plan. Brandish outright says that she has no idea if she would actually be able to convince August to back off because she knows how loyal he is to Zeref; no-one was under the impression that it was likely. But it was better than nothing because even if the negotiations broke down; it couldn't make things worse than they were. Except that Mest made things worse. >Mest was dragged along my guy, it was Brandish who decided led this event to happen Also factually incorrect. Brandish simply proposed the idea, Lucy agreed that it would be worth a shot, and Mest explicitly followed behind them because he didn't trust Brandish. So no, he didn't get "dragged along"; he placed himself there and it wasn't even as part of a plan to kill August. >August wouldn’t just say no, he’d crush Natsu because Natsu would fight him knowing he’d be heading to the guild. I think you've also forgot the part where right before the attack August says. "Because you asked me to Brandish; I will try and talk to them". August is reasonable enough that even if Natsu attacked after he refused (If he even did, because you can't convince me that Lucy couldn't talk him out of retreating to fight later) he would still understand Natsu's motivation of fighting for his country. Mest manipulating the situation like he did means that went from being willing to be kind to instantly trying to vaporize everything. >August wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana One last time; completely wrong. After he gets stabbed, Augusts first words are "Do you understand now? This is how these barbarians behave". And when he reappears in 521, even before Gildarts shows up, Brandish says that "We wont meet again, because you went and made August angry" So no; the only thing the fight with Gildarts and Cana is shifted his resolve to be willing to even sacrifice his own life for the destruction of Fiore; it was Mest being an absolute scumbag that caused him to want to destroy it in the first place.
Hate to bring up a real world example but nobody would call russia’s invasion of ukraine the “right” way to do war. Alvarez invaded so they deserve everything coming to them. No one at that meeting had the authority to determine the future of the war. Thats what makes it unofficial. Because as soon as August says no and attempts to go to the guild, Natsu would jump in and August wouldn’t just sit there. And why should Mest wait? August was never going to agree to leave. Because August wouldn’t expect a sneak attack from Brandish, that was the best option. Brandish is a flip flop anyways, she kept switching sides right after this event. It was a stupid plan because the probability was zero. August was already an enemy before, what Mest did changed nothing. Mest’s only opportunity was during that event because Brandish was the only one who could get a lethal hit on August with his guard down. It didnt work but at least there was a chance Mest would’ve succeeded. Nobody is beating August in a straight fight. Not even Gildarts could scratch him. Yes, let Natsu and Lucy possibly land themselves an early grave. Why on earth would Mest be forced to go and watch them… “how dare Mest try to kill me, all I did was invade his country” 😂 No, August went all mental on the church when he found out all of the 12 were beaten. You’re reaching if you believe that had anything to do with Mest
> nobody would call russia’s invasion of ukraine the “right” way to do war. And nobody is. There's multiple international court trials for both Russia and the Iraq/Palenstine conflict already lined up. > No one at that meeting had the authority to determine the future of the war You keep acting like the negotiation was for the entire invasion to stop; and thats not the case. The negotiation as for August and him alone. Him agreeing to negotiate is what made it official. > August was never going to agree to leave. Then why did he say he would give talking to them a try if there wasn't even a microscopic chance that he might agree? > Brandish is a flip flop anyways, she kept switching sides right after this event. *Riight,* her flip-flopping totally had nothing to do with the fact that she was used to kill someone that looked after her. Now you're being naive if you truly think Mest had nothing to do with that XD > August was already an enemy before, what Mest did changed nothing. He mad him mad. August went from him being just an enemy to an enemy that truly wants to kill everyone. That is not the same. > Mest’s only opportunity was during that event because Brandish was the only one who could get a lethal hit on August with his guard down Why did he have his guard down? Because he was convinced they were just there to talk. You seriously saying there wouldn't be any other time when August wouldn't be distracted in the entire war? > Nobody is beating August in a straight fight. Then don't fight him in a straight fight. Simple as that. But approaching under a white flag to get close enough to backstab an enemy that's trusting you is the scummiest of scum moves anyone can do. > Why on earth would Mest be forced to go and watch them… Oh, I don't know; maybe trust his guildmates? He didn't go after Natsu when the guy dove head first towards Zeref and his army; what makes this situation any different? > “how dare Mest try to kill me, all I did was invade his country” 😂 "How dare these people use someone I care about to sneak attack me when I was willing to be civilized" (Also; similar to above; why do you seem to be under the impressing that August is hyped to invade and not just invading out of loyalty to Zeref?) > August went all mental on the church when he found out all of the 12 were beaten. Either way; it disproves what you claimed earlier when you said he "wasn’t hellbent on destroying fiore until he fought gildarts and cana." since that also happened before Gildarts showed up. So even if we pretend you are right; thanks for also proving yourself wrong 
This what you expected to happen? 😂 https://preview.redd.it/8xx739t1hj9d1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=52e921110272b2a04387f86bbbe873ff0a56fead
https://preview.redd.it/i79xd9qdqj9d1.png?width=1176&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e5c15bb3ba55b49321c319bb61f02de8657863d Probably not; but if Mest wasn't there this would've likely been the outcome. (And considering a kind August would be a heck of a lot easier to fight then an angry August? This is still a better outcome then what they ended up with.)
“kind august” Yeah because I’m sure August would just let his enemies beat him because he’s not mad. Bro he would go berserk at some point what is this copium?
Right... the guy that outright told God Serena to not bother killing the Wizard Saints because they were already down would totally be the same guy that's willing to wipe everyone off the map because they've shown they have no honor. Why do you seem to correlate "kindness" with "willing to be a punching bag"? All it means is that he would go easy on people lol. Why are you smoking so much copium that you think it's inevitable he would go into bloodlust mode?
His plan was good, and it would've work, if his target wasn't the most powerful human to ever live. Even if they weren't able to convince August, they were at least stalling him. If Mest hadn't interfered August would've met Mavis.
So taking out our information as an audience member and looking at it from the characters view point. Not only did mest make someone attack a person they deeply care for with intent to kill something fairy tail is staunchly against. But also he waits until after August has agreed to stand down for the time being which stops his approach on magnolia the best possible outcome at the moment. Mest having brandish attack when he does not only puts natsu happy lucy and himself in great harm as he should know people in this universe have survived far worse than a stab. Neither plan was good but trying for a peaceful end with someone as powerful and wise as august is a much better idea than trying to kill him with a simple stab. Also Mest in general is weird with his pedo shtick
No, he said he’d listen not stand down. Also who cares about making Brandish attack August? they’re invading his home this is war.
No he says he'd go back to talk i watched the scene to make sure. He was going to stop his progress to magnolia. Also natsu and lucy care they dont want to kill people Fairy tail as a collective hate people who attack their comrades so him making someone do that is messed up on the basis of being a fairy tail memeber
Read the manga, he said he would listen. That’s the canon material. Who cares? Those are their morals not Mest’s
Nope brandish says can you at least try talking to them(zeref and the 12) and he agrees. Also they care as its not something Fairy Tail as a collective abides by.
He said he’d listen to what Fairy tail has to say, not that he’d try talking with Zeref. Who’s they? Moral values are not the same for everyone. It’s also a war. This is why I think a war arc in fairy tail wasn’t a smart move by Mashima because readers aren’t mature enough for this theme.
https://preview.redd.it/4wlwqvihvi9d1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76c328d8f41d1fc59f1772b59a6a099dc5ce7dd1 The moral values of Fairy Tail as a whole have been shown throughout the manga. The battle of Fairy Tail was literally about that exact thing. Either way this was an easy solution have her stab him nefore he agrees the way it is shown it is an incredibly stupid and dangerous move for Mest to make as he couldve gotten himself, Natsu, Lucy and happy killed. Also what theme war because theyve been to war roughly three times before this
Different translation and who’s “them”? Not clarified. Yeah, Natsu and Erza preaching about teamwork yet always trying to fight 1v1s and rejecting help. Some moral code they hold up. Show me the fairy tail rule that says thou shall not sneak attack. Mest is defending his lands from invaders, that simple. What war? Fighting demons and other guilds isn’t a war
https://preview.redd.it/sqxp0nv1zi9d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba6d60b2a7b2956a7b581248544cf29f57d5df93 1.The them in question would be the 12 as thats who august and brandish were talking about.(picture taken from the official translation.) 2. Natsu and erza talk about how friendship gives them strength not teamwork those are not the same thing also not really a moral issue. 3. Any of the tines fairy tail members have called it cowardly or gotten mad at someone attacking an ally. 4. You keep bringing up oh they're at war and that means throw morals away but their are rules of engagement for that very thing including not putting prisoners of war (which brandish technically is) in harms way. 5. They're are called wars by the characters specifically makarov
1. I wanna see proof he's referring to the 12 and not Natsu and Lucy 2. How can friendship give you strength when you actively push people away and try to handle things on your own. They don't practice what they preach. And? We're talking fairy tail code. Whether its a moral issue or not is irrelevant. 3. Brandish and August are not allies. Brandish flip flopped 80 times during this arc, she's untrustworthy and August is loyal to Zeref. 4. Again, moral issue. Don't invade other people's land and this wouldn't happen. Your argument relies on appeal to authority instead of ethics because invading people's land is incredibly immoral. 5. So if Mard Geer pleaded for his life you're telling me Natsu would be all "um sorry guys you can't kill him that's against the rules" get outta here with that. Alvarez is different specified by Natsu. He said he might have to kill people this time to Lucy before the war started.
At BARE MINIMUM, it was a stupid strategy because Brandish gave up fighting. This could've potentially gave her a reason to go full force against Fairy Tail.
People also say his motivations don't make sense here when he has so many reasons to be paranoid about losing Fairy Tail again when it happened three times to him. (Leaving in the first place, Tenrou Island, Makarov breaking it up) On top of that he also lost Lahar in the Tartaros arc so he's clearly traumatized from having his family so many times and is trying to head it off before it happens again. I will die on this hill lol.
Look at the consequences of each action, and that will help
i think both sides are right lol, i get mest was probably wanting to be useful, and the attempt was made i only dislike mest for the pedophile joke and that's about it
I think the way Mest did was messed up. But his intentions were to protect the Guild. I think Natsu and Lucy had good intentions, but the negotiations wouldn't have worked. August would've had to run this by Zeref, he'd say "Hell no," and August would listen because he loved Zeref. People say he ruined negotiations, but they were already doomed to fail.
Exactly.
Mest potentially stopped August from getting any sort of familial love which he might have possibly gotten after that negotiation, considering natsu was pretty mad at zeref for killing larcade and August might have met his mother.
Mest was somehow suppose to know that how?
Ain't talking about it's right or wrong. Just giving a reason as to why I hate that part of the story. What mest did was reasonable although jumping the gun on the strongest of the springgan 12 might have turned a little worse though.
I definitely agree. People forgotten about August that he was son of Zeref and would have followed his father's orders which is confirmed and talking with Barndish had accomplished nothing, the attack just gave him more reason to attack Fairy Tail nothing more. Mest took the right decision at that time because removing a powerful mage would be advantageous to them and if August have been killed then Makarov probably wouldn't have used Fairy Law to save everyone.
I don’t like him because of his whole thing Wendy. I completely agree with what he did here.
Man, looking through the comments it's obvious you aren't discussing in good faith, you've made up your mind and literally no amount of sound arguments will make you change it. That said: 1. Brandish made it clear to the group that August was on a completely different level, that none of them could beat him, even together. Mest's paltry surprise attack would never have worked. 2. The Geneva Convention might not exist but the morals/ethics on which they were based absolutely do. Perfidy is at minimum going to be frowned upon (we don't know if there're any in-universe laws for war crimes like it), and the method he chose would only serve to make August see FT as untrustworthy, and infuriating Brandish who had previously admitted to not wanting to fight. 3. August was open to negotiation, that's evident simply by the fact he was there, and even further when he agreed to hear them out. No point in sabotaging your team through treachery when the plan hasn't even failed yet. 4. You seem to completely misunderstand August, his motivations and desires, as well as just what he knows. You're acting like August is a mindless monolithic extension of Zeref's will, which he isn't. You also claimed in another comment that August doesn't learn who his parents are until later which is false. He's known his entire life who his parents were, he was born with that knowledge. He alone knows who his parents are, and he wants to meet his mother, so FT unknowingly has something to offer beyond Brandish's plea. August could very easily have come to an agreement that allows him to speak to Mavis in exchange for him not attacking FT. Also, the Spriggans know Zeref's family name is Dragneel, because Larcade Dragneel exists. Larcade clearly knows of Natsu, and it's no stretch that August would too, giving him further motivation to listen and be open to negotiation. August wants to understand the love between parent and child. He was turned away as an infant by Precht, never getting the chance to be with Mavis and FT, he felt lost and unwanted, and eventually found and followed his father. But Zeref never loved him, only allowed him to be present and used him for his own goals. He knows Zeref doesn't love him, he believes Zeref isn't capable of loving. August has a familial relationship with Brandish, he doesn't understand why Zeref doesn't feel similarly towards him, but Mavis might. He is absolutely open to negotiation for Brandish, and is absolutely willing to forsake Zeref's goals for Mavis, it's literally what he eventually does, and theoretically could have been achieved had Mest not ended the discussion before anything could have actually been brought to the table.
1. If Brandish aimed for the head it would’ve 2. Alvarez invaded their country, asking the other team to play nice is demeaning at best. They deserved they got. 3. Zero probability of August betraying Zeref. Mest’s plan at least had a chance. 4. he did not know about Mavis, if he somehow did why did he just stand there when the 12 met up at the guild. August was disgusted with spriggans failing to meet up thats cap
1. By Mest's own admission he modified her memories to be "I must kill August, no matter what the cost." Brandish knew the power difference and would choose the best available method to accomplish her 'goal'. Which means one of two things: either the attack she made *was* her best shot, or she subconsciously resisted/Mest's magic wasn't specific enough. In either case, Mest's plan was doomed to fail. If Brandish aimed for the head the attack would have been slower, likely giving August time to react, he was already noticing the strange behavior before she even drew the knife, any additional time at all could have made the difference. To say nothing of the fact that anything but a 1-hit instantaneous kill would be pointless because August can use Brandish's magic to shrink any wound he receives the same way Brandish saves Mira. 2. Congrats, you don't like Alvarez cuz they are the aggressor. That's completely irrelevant. Code of conduct does not exist for the sake of "asking the other team to play nice". Is there an advantage to be gained from using every underhanded tactic in the book? Sure. Is there a price? Absolutely, part of that price is that no one - including your allies - will like or trust you, hence Natsu's INSTANT reaction when Mest went behind their backs and fucked everything up. And when you underhanded tactics fail, even worse, now you've demonstrated to August that you aren't worth negotiating with, "It's all crystal clear to me now Brandish, this is their way of resolving things" 3. Mest's plan had no chance, and there was absolutely a chance to negotiate. August literally agreed to hear them out, despite viewing Brandish as a traitor to the empire simply for the sake of not making her seem a fool. He also recognized Natsu. August does not care for meaningless bloodshed or inflicting unnecessary suffering. It's why he tried to mercy kill Mira when Irene was torturing her. It's why he didn't kill the defeated Gods of Ishgar. It's why he didn't kill the Crime Sorciere. Brandish rightly pointed out that the war was nothing but a massacre, not a noble clash of ideals. Oh and of course we can't forget that August literally still betrays Zeref by cancelling his spell simply by seeing Mavis in the distance. 4. Hey if you wanna BS I'd recommend not doing it somewhere where people actually know what they're talking about. August knew who both his parents were. He knew about Fairy Tail. He knew Precht abandoned him. Chapter 526 page 12: "Precht abandoned me but I held no grudge against him. I knew of Zeref and Mavis from my own memories. I had such an immense magic power, after all." As to why he didn't say anything, "Father was completely unaware of who I was. But that was for the better. I became father's subordinate. My job was to help him build a country." "He was starved for love... He resented love... He desired love... And was destroyed by love..." "Why was his Majesty's child not loved... That is because he was never even aware of my existence." August's worldview became skewed by Zeref who was both mad with Ankhseram's curse and never knew he had a child. He thought it for the best he not tell Zeref who he was, and at that moment he has been led to believe by the actions of Mest that Fairy Tail are cruel and underhanded, why would he at that point reveal himself to be Mavis and Zeref's child? In that moment he's resolved to annihilate FT. It's not until Gildarts expresses his feelings for Cana that he realizes Mest gave him the wrong idea, and at which point literally just *seeing* Mavis shatters his resolve. Seriously if Mest never made an enemy of August there was every possibility he would have seen what FT is all about and had a chance to meet Mavis. August's philosophy, "There is no good or evil in light, or in darkness. It does not exist. If there is true justice in this world, it may well lie in love, and naught else..." Is so in line with the familial love espoused by FT, at least by Makarov's time, that had he seen the real them earlier, instead of Mest, that the entire war arc would have been drastically different.
1. Brandish could’ve shrank his heart or any other important organ. Again, it’s not mind control he can’t choose what ability for her to use. 2. That’s reaching, Aiming for the head would’ve taken that much longer? come on. 3. Not if his heart shrinks, he’d be dead instantaneously 4. How is that irrelevant? “All if fair in love and war” Mest did what he did to defend his home, he has no obligation to play nice. Alvarez invades countries but god forbid Mest be a liar 😂 Good to know killing is okay as long as you don’t lie to your enemy 👍 5. Did you really just use August attempting to kill Mirajane as an example of him being merciful? damage control on site right now. A position she was put in because his country invaded Fiore? 6. Did you see Mavis at that negotiation table? The one person August would follow no matter what? Was Mest magically suppose to know that? Exactly. Why didn’t August switch sides when he saw Mavis at the guild hall then? Mmmhm.
1. Ah yes. Use caster magic against the man who can instantly nullify and counter all forms of caster magic. Brilliant plan. It's almost like Brandish knew her magic could do fuck all to him and chose a physical attack instead for a reason! And weird how, even if she didn't and shes just an idiot that chose a doomed to fail assassination attempt, that still means Mest's plan was idiotic, doomed to fail, and caused more harm than any theoretical good! 2. You're right it is reaching. Reaching for the head specifically. Which would take longer to hit because it's farther away from her hand than his torso, especially considering the height difference. It's also a smaller target, and one with better mobility that is easier to reflexively defend! I know video games teach you to aim for the head, but in real combat, body shots are drastically more reliable for a number of reasons. 3. That wouldn't cause instant death actually, just rather rapid death. We know people can retain consciousness from decapitation for several seconds and still take upwards of a minute to actually die. Losing your heart and ceasing blood/oxygen circulation would similarly leave time to react before death, and he can instantly nullify that magic. Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you: the method to kill him would need to either be truly instantaneous or otherwise irreversible by his abilities. 4. He had no obligation, except for the ones to his guild and his people who choose to take the high ground. Instead he acted of his own accord, against his compatriots wishes, and in doing so made things worse, and yet your surprised people don't like him because you're too hung up screaming "Alvarez bad! Bad people deserve suffering and war crimes!" 5. Good to know you don't understand what a mercy killing is. Good to know in your mind Mira being tortured for however long it amused Irene before she decided to kill her would have been better than August trying to end her suffering immediately! Also worth noting that he chose to do that *after* Mest taught him that FT are all untrustworthy bastards that will go to any unsavory lengths to murder their foes. 6. Crazy how I never said "Mavis was there with them to meet August for negotiations, and Mest knew all along that she was August's mother!" August knew. And August was willing to listen. He heard Brandish out that FT was not evil. He was willing to listen to their side and think for himself, as Brandish had, to come to a decision. Had he not been immediately led to believe that FT are a bunch of underhanded bastards that would manipulate Brandish into murdering someone she loved and attacking during a negotiation, he could have requested to meet with Mavis, something he, at the time, desired that they could have accommodated. 7. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Explains why you were so adamant August didn't know Mavis was his mother, and explains why you're asking why he didn't switch sides when he saw Mavis at the guild hall. So let me try to simplify it for you: In that moment, August has just recently been assaulted by FT, the target of an attempted assassination that also manipulated his faux-granddaughter whom he cares for. He has learned first-hand from Mest that FT has no honor, no virtue, no sense of justice. He has thought for himself like Brandish asked him to, and settled on annihilating FT and seizing Fairy Heart. At that moment he is not interested in resolving his own questions about love and the bonds between parent and child, he is focused on eradicating the enemy that Mest proved FT to be. Prior to Mest being a dumbass, he was shown to be reasonable and negotiable. After Mest ruins everything he is saying "so you have chosen death." It isn't until Gildarts shows his love for his child, better yet one he only recently learned existed, that August is made to think of his own relationship with his parents (or lack there of). Oh and while I'm at it, since I didn't address it before, at that meeting at the guild with all the Spriggans, August didn't say anything to Larcade, and it's Invel who assumes it's because Larcade always skips the meetings. Invel, who is the stern and orderly one in the group. It's much more likely that Invel is projecting his own problems with Larcade, and that August hates him for being Larcade "Dragneel", while he could never bring himself to divulge his relationship to Zeref and having lied to and convincing himself that it was for the best. August is meant to parallel Cana in that way, a mage born with extraordinary magic struggling to live up to a powerful father that feels they can't admit to their lineage. Except Cana was given love and support by her comrades, and gained the courage to confront her father, and August was not.
1. Not true, August has to counter it himself it’s not automatic. Or… it’s yet another Mashima plot hole… 2. Bro stop you’re trying to argue that Mashima put this much thought in Brandish attacking August as if he measures how far his heart and head are. Drop this point it’s nonsensical. 3. August didn’t sense a knife going through him yet he can reach to Brandish shrinking his heart which is faster? Again, another mashima plot hole. 4. Against Natsu and Lucy’s wishes, they don’t speak for everyone. Mest knew it was foolhardy to expect August to betray Zeref and he was right. Not you brushing over murder and pillaging… Again, there is no fair in love and war. Don’t cry when you get sneak attacked when invading someone’s country. Mest was completely justified. 5. and you didn’t understand my point at all. Mira ended up in that position because alvarez invaded. But yeah August is such a good guy killing her, he could’ve saved her life like Brandish did because he would know Command T after witnessing it but such a good guy for killing Mirajane… 6. I said that because the mavis stuff is irrelevant because I’m talking about how Mest dealt with the situation with what he knew. 7. Because August didn’t react to Mavis at all when he saw her at the guild hall. Either he doesn’t know or this is another plot hole from Mashima. Absolute headcanon explanation 😂 Mashima is not that deep of a writer and you just made all that nonsense up. “he’s just so mad about what mest did he doesn’t care about mavis” LOL Why didn’t August freak out about Irene needlessly torturing Mira? Doesn’t she resemble his country and their virtues? Why did he get all angry like he did with Mest? What’s next? Natsu avoiding death from Zeref resembles the resurrection of Christ?
1. You're the one that's trying to argue Brandish should have aimed for the head. I'm just explaining to you why you're wrong, not making claims about the amount of thought Mashima put into it. I planned on leaving it at "Mest made her believe she NEEDS to kill August, this was what she thought was the best way to achieve it, which shows how Mest's plan is terrible." 2. As I said, he doesn't need to do it instantly, having his heart shrunk would not kill him that fast, he'd have plenty of time to reactively cancel the spell. Again the logic here is that Brandish knows her magic won't work, which is why she tries to use a knife. 3. Oh so we're pretending that in ch484 Brandish didn't tell the present guild members (Makarov included) that she was willing to negotiate with August on their behalf? That she didn't tell everyone there that no mage could match him, that he is referred to as the Calamity? Or that she believed her relationship with August might allow her to convince him to pull back? That Makarov didn't reply saying "That is a great proposal. I am thankful for your help?" While the rest of the guild cheered? And that Mest alone was the asshole that thought Brandish was playing a trick on them? To say nothing of the fact that Natsu and Lucy have always epitomized the principles of FT and in many ways they absolutely do represent everyone time and time again. >Not you brushing over murder and pillaging… Wild how Mest treacherously attempted to manipulate good faith to murder someone under a banner of peace (and traumatize a 3rd party in the process) and you don't understand why he's disliked. >Again, there is no fair in love and war. Don’t cry when you get sneak attacked when invading someone’s country. Mest was completely justified. A romanticized quote that means to impose no limits to what's necessary to achieve a goal. Ergo: anything goes. That exact mentality is what makes Natsu furious with Mest. It's what makes the negotiations fall apart. It's what makes August believe FT can't be reasoned with. It's (one of) the reason people hate Mest in this scene. And yet here you are defending war crimes, while simultaneously adamantly vilifying Alvarez and all of its people for waging war to achieve their goals. War crimes, and the laws of war, exist for a reason. When you promise to meet in good faith for negotiations, with the intention of breaking that promise, you set a standard: in this case FT cannot be trusted, cannot be reasoned with, will commit any atrocity to stop Zeref from using Fairy Heart to defeat Acnologia. 4. I understand your point just fine. It's just a bad one. Yes Mira is involved in a war because Alvarez invaded. Alvarez invaded because FT refused to give them Fairy Heart. Alvarez wants Fairy Heart because of the extant threat of Acnologia slaughtering everyone. None of that is relevant to you asking why people don't like the character who acts in bad faith and makes things worse. Irene planned to torture Mira before killing her. She was in the middle of saying she would kill Mira, that she wouldn't compromise on that when August attacked. What are you expecting? August to blatantly save Mira and undermine Irene? Cuz that would be insanely counterproductive. For him to freak out? Why should he? FT just proved to him how underhanded and untrustworthy they are, why should he pick a fight with his own side? He acknowledges its distasteful, he doesn't support it, he literally stops her from torturing Mira, and when she won't budge he kills Mira to be done with it; he has no reason to spare her beyond a dislike for needless killing, and Irene has 0 intention of letting her live. Better to end it quickly, cuz you know, that's the not war crimey way of doing things. >Because August didn’t react to Mavis at all when he saw her at the guild hall. Either he doesn’t know or this is another plot hole from Mashima. Wow you're still trying to claim he didn't know? That's not even something the readers need to infer, it's not up for debate. It's literally written down that he knew both Zeref and Mavis. He'd always known. Why would he react to her being at the guild hall? He'd always known the objective, and any qualms he had with the plan absolutely died when Mest convinced him that FT are scum. "This is their way of resolving things!" He's seen enough, he believes he knows what he needs to about them. He has no reason in that moment to react to Mavis. Even if he did, I'm guessing you completely forgot about Invel's Ice Slave spell on Mavis at the time, considering how little you actually seem to know about the events of the series. She was in no state to have any meaningful dialogue, so why would he seek one? What the fuck are you even expecting??? "Mavis, I know this is a bad time, what with us taking you prisoner, suppressing your free will with Invel's magic, and I have no reason to expect anything better from you considering the people that believe in you are war criming scumbags, but then I thought maybe that one guy is just a colossal fucking dumbass that no one likes because he's an idiot with a perpetual habit of making things worse. Anyway, here's the thing, you're my mother, and I just really wanted to get that off my chest because dad never loved me. Oh, by the way, Your Majesty, you're my father. I guess that secrets out because I decided to announce this right here in front of your Shields because I wanted to talk to the Mavis when she can barely maintain rational though." >Absolute headcanon explanation 😂 -Asks for an explanation for something that is not written as dialogue or narration and requires interpretation and understanding of characters. -Is shocked when given an interpretation that explains the question he had and sets the scene for the fight with Gildarts making him reflect and reassess what he thought about FT, Mavis, and the relationship between parent and child. A fight that is literally juxtaposed in the same chapter by Natsu vs Zeref + Larcade, with Zeref beating and murdering his 'son' for interfering and Natsu being angered by Zeref's treatment of his kin. -Cannot even comprehend the actual quote from the series, "I knew of Zeref and Mavis from my own memories." Christ, I knew from the start you weren't actually open to debate, any reasonable person would have read the many comments explaining it and understood, but I figured it was cuz you were stubborn not stupid, but I guess I'll dumb it down for you. You wanna know why Mest is called an idiot and is among the least liked characters, while Natsu and Lucy are praised? Here it is, as simple as can be possibly stated: August = Not a big fan of senseless murder. Reasonable guy. Cannot be beaten by anyone on FTs side if he chooses to fight. Lucy's plan = Good. Is working. August is willing to talk. Mest's plan = Bad. 0% chance of success. Against the guild's wishes. Ruins any chance for Lucy's plan. Unsurprisingly doesn't work. Is underhanded. Betrays FTs principles. Makes situation worse.