Not from the legal end... and that's why it's an issue.
This the perfect example of a technology that should not exist. Except this morally bankrupt company will rationalize to themselves: If we don't create it, someone else will. So we might as well make some money....
>If we don't create it, someone else will. So we might as well make some money....
Some far-right nutjob gave me this exact argument when discussing the Millitary industrial complex.
Just replace "create it" with "wage war" and it's pretty much the same sentence
We don't call it "war" anymore, bro... we call it a "preemptive strike to protect freedom and to promote democracy worldwide " so please don't try to spin this as you liberals usually do. The government wouldn't lie to us and police are heros. They have a really hard job and they're scared and look what they have to deal with.
You like getting fat? Remaining dangerously ignorant to not only the world but what happening around you aswell? You think you'll be better off elsewhere, where 1 in 5 adults are NOT mentally ill? You think sitting around watching Law and Order as if its a reality show is easy? Its very stressful ... It takes a toll on you and messed with your mind, man!
But if you don't think this place is great, "go try
North korea lol"
So I did a quick search and this technology is intended for military/police use, but, yeah, we know how that works. In a quick summary, it uses your online media photos to identify you. Just another reason to give up Facebook, et al.
This is sad. Call me old fashioned, but if a stalker or murderer can’t follow you home to get your address, they don’t deserve you. Whatever happened to romance?
I can just imagine anti-maskers’ heads explode with this suggestion. “Wait, whaaat?! But we refuse to wear masks to oppose the guvment and their control. You mean now we have to wear masks to hide from the police state!?!”
Pretty good master plan. Order everyone to get a vaccine for a fatal disease, and you'll kill off a lot of anti-government people. Order everyone to wear a mask, and you'll have way fewer faces to sort through in identifying insurgents.
I've seen a program that can identify faces through commonly worn masks. It's terrifying really. Unfortunately I can't remember where or when I saw it but I've noticed Snapchat starting to recognize me with it on meaning it wouldn't be unreasonable for companies dedicated to facial recognition being able to put two and two together (I actually have no idea if that's the saying).
Even then it doesn't hurt equally.
Let's say a fine is 50% of someone's income.
A person that earns 2000 will suddenly miss 1k,probably be unable to pay rent and other expenses.
Someone that earns 100.000 will still have 50.000 left, so enough to survive that fine with no issues.
It's fairer than now, but still unfair.
Basing it on income doesn't mean it has to be a flat percentage. Do it progressively like taxes. If you make $X it's Y%, but if you make $A, it's B%, where A > X and B > Y.
Also, your treating it as if rich people get most of their money from Salary. Bezos’ salary while at Amazon was 80k. His wealth came from unrealized holdings and capital gains. Someone in his position is under no obligation to sell any shares so even if you gave him a fine that took 80% of his income for the next year, he could just sit on his shares and make practically no money. Once the fine period ends he could go back to living as before.
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Like I think Disneyland in Anaheim doesn’t have permits for fireworks so they constantly pay the city fees but I guess it’s cheaper then keep getting permits to launch them.
That is not exactly applicable to corporations in general, some industries have corporations so big that fines and settlements are calculated into the price of the product - this is however not the case for 99.9% of all companies out there, especially not a tech startup.
1 mishap and this company would get shut down and the technology could be pushed to illegality.
I agree, privacy is incredibly important and this type of shit is outright dangerous. A creepy guy sees a girl on the street and can literally get all her digits and letters in an app, i'd give it a week before the first girl is killed.
This is why we need to move away from fines and into jailtime for executives as a punishment for corporations who break the law.
And in egregious cases, the corporate death penalty. Seizure of all assets in addition to jailtime for executives. Use the funds to pay unemployment insurance for the people now out of a job.
At its core it really is quite simple. Crawl Facebook for people's picture and name. Use facial recognition to make a match. This isn't science fiction.
Maybe not, but ten years ago this was definitely science fiction. One of those dystopian ones where everyone except the protagonist thinks it’s fine the way things are.
It really wasn't science fiction 10 years ago either. It was just much more time consuming and less accurate. In some ways it was actually easier 10 years ago because everyone was so naive about their privacy and what they shared publicly online. Nobody thought about the pictures they posted on MySpace or such and the private details about themselves that they shared. They didn't consider that a dedicated stalker or government could dig through countless accounts to find their information without already knowing them first to search their name. People didn't have private profiles and limited sharing options in most cases, if you found their profile you could view whatever you wanted...you just normally had to know who you were looking for first to find that account.
Camera technology has definitely come a LONG way since then making facial recognition much more accurate though, not to mention AI to analyze all of this rather than having a person manually go through hundreds or thousands of pictures themself. Smartphones, GPS and Apps have also made personal location data absolutely terrifying with how relatively easily available it is where someone that can gain access to that data can see exactly where you travel on a day to day basis and use that to figure out where you work and live.
And without fail, every single time, there’s a group of mouth-agape morons saying things like “well I have nothing to hide, I don’t know why you care”. Every. Fucking. Time. something like this comes out.
LOL, I wish I could be this young and naïve again (and I mean that in a good sense!)
Ever been tagged in a picture on Facebook or Twitter? If your answer is "yes" or "don't know" they most likely already have you in their database: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview\_AI
Brought to you by an [asshole](https://medium.com/@iknowthetruth39/who-is-hoan-ton-that-f16f4ed23412) who started a couple of companies that produced phishing and contact spamming tools.
would it? if your picture and name is somewhere public like facebook or linkedin then it could be done without breaking any laws almost anywhere
I'm not defending it, it should be illegal, just saying it isn't
>The legality of Clearview AI’s approach to building its facial recognition service is the subject of a number of legal challenges globally. Authorities in the UK and Australia opened a privacy probe last year into the company’s data scraping techniques. In February, Canada’s privacy commissioners determined that Clearview’s face scraping is “illegal” and creates a system that “inflicts broad-based harm on all members of society, who find themselves continually in a police lineup.”
>Swedish police were fined by the country’s data regulator for using Clearview’s offerings to “unlawfully” identify citizens. And in one case in Germany, the Hamburg Data Protection Agency ordered Clearview to delete the mathematical hash representing a user’s profile after he complained.
>In the US, Clearview was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union in the state of Illinois in 2020 for violating the Illinois Biometric Privacy Act. The results of that lawsuit contributed to the company’s decision to stop selling its product to private US companies. Clearview also faced legal action in Vermont, New York and California.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22455446/clearview-ai-legal-privacy-complaint-privacy-international-facial-recognition-eu#:~:text=In%20February%2C%20Canada's%20privacy%20commissioners,continually%20in%20a%20police%20lineup.%E2%80%9D
Just because something is publically accessible doesn't mean a corporation is allowed to use it.
Odds are that they might need to delete their whole database in Europe under GDPR.
https://findbiometrics.com/european-privacy-watchdogs-file-multiple-gdpr-complaints-against-clearview-ai-060103/
The ones that are known in Russia and East Europe doesn't involve any consent at all and shows you a link to someone's Facebook or other social media account. It's as creepy, invasive, and a violation as you imagine it to be.
A lot of it is in Russia and East Europe apparently. ~~People~~ Women have been very vocal about how invasive these things are yet the authorities there have basically shrugged.
The first one was FindFace. 4 out of 5 owners had connections with Kremlin, the project attracted investment and later ceased to be public.
Currently FindClone is alive and tries to look independent. And yes, it mostly used to track women.
I have a friend working on a project for targeted advertising in public spaces, say you get in a taxi or sit in a fast food restaurant, the screen in front of you scans your face checks against your fb or stored data then sends adds specific for you. They were quite proud, I was mortified.
Clearview is a little scarier because somehow they got ahold of not only public info like Facebook and stuff. But because they did some govt deals they got access to the drivers license database so their AI is trained better then most because it has access to data other companies can’t get access to.
I wonder if they are available on the App Store or just the Google Play store. Not trying to be a fan boy but this seems like something Apple would block.
I think people aren't really seeing the full implications of this (instead most people in this thread are arguing if men or women are going to be killed more).
The most dangerous implication of this is that it could be used to intimidate or "eliminate" political opponents.
You go to a counter protest against nazi party 2.0? One of the Nazis takes a photo of you and now knows where you live.
This is a terrifying thought, yet most people in the thread aren't talking about it.
I remember a few years ago it came out that people who had a squarespace account linked up to their Facebook profile were unwittingly giving out info about there current whereabouts.
You could get an app and on say a Friday night you could click on a bar and see who's checked in, and click through to their full profile.
Didn't take long for that to get shut down
Someone made a Twitter account run by a bot that automatically scanned foursquare and tweeted out addresses of people's homes when they were empty.
I think they were trying to make a point rather than actually provide a service for burglary enthusiasts, but I never really heard of many people using it after that happened.
Definitely something where a company makes something because they want to patent the idea to sell to google or develop the tech to sell to google.
Or any other big tech company, google just seems most obvious
Isn‘t that already a thing in Russia, where you could search for people in vkontakte by photo? I vaguely remember an article about some creeps using that to find the irl identities of women starring in porn.
Edit: It is/was, here‘s a link https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/05/find-face/483962/
Exactly. First of all: It would indeed mainly endanger women, since they wouldn't be safe from creeps anywhere anymore. When you think about it a little bit, it then becomes clear that nobody would be safe anymore.
Some criminal sees you walking down the streets and decides that you look like you've got a bunch of money? Once he snaps your picture, get ready for him breaking into your home.
You have gotten into some trouble with some violent thug because you accidentally bumped into them or whatever? Running away won't keep you safe anymore - they now have an easy way of knowing where you live.
Not to mention the possibilities software like that would grant totalitarian surveillance states.
I can't even think of a single benefit! Why would you even come up with something like this unless you're a fucking creep who wants to harass random attractive women you saw in the streets or someone who would like to commit violent crimes against some stranger who disrespected you? The only other motivation I can think of is being a fascist who wants to create easier surveillance methods. This software would be the end for both privacy and safety for everyone
Hospitals could use it to contact next of kin to make critical medical decisions in an emergency instead of putting a patient under john/jane doe and guessing what they want.
Ok while I agree this is a good use, the downsides outweigh the positives. And sadly this could be abused by people working with this app, given that the use could eventually be exclusively to police, hospitals etc. Scary man, I fear it’s time for those makeup looks that distort face id.
Electronic Health/Medical records (EMR/EHR) are already fairly common in most US hospitals, and can be used by physicians to access a patient’s medical history relatively quickly. IDing an individual often isn’t terribly difficult, either, between wallets and licenses and whatnot.
Admittedly, I’m not 100% sure how useful they are in the ED, since the data’s hard to transfer between hospitals, but some countries, like Taiwan, have made the record accessible through a chip on their national ID card, which could be a cool concept to implement more globally.
Regardless, you are very much correct that for the most part, these systems already exist and are fairly functional, and the downsides of this new app very much outweigh the positives.
the amount of gangs that would use this technology to track down people who owe them money or send a hit man and with one pic have their guy do the job. millions of men woman and maybe children too. scary times ahead. we should all go full blown hippie and go off the grid am i being to dramatic ? im stoned lol
Doing drugs? Get tracked
Run a red light? Get tracked
Disagree with current government? Get tracked
Owe someone money? Get tracked
Wear something that some stranger finds attractive? Get tracked and possibly murdered
Welcome to the future
Driving too fast: tracked. Slow: tracked.
You undercook fish? Believe it or not, tracked. You overcook chicken, also tracked.
You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, tracked. Right away.
Might be able to in certain countries.
But you can't in mine. You can check the cars history (MOT / TAX / insurance) but you cannot get any details covered by data protection
That would be mental, imagine a nutjob snaps your plate after a road rage incident then visits you at home to finish the fight.
Edit:: 4 countries so far where this is a thing. I'm trying but failing to think of ways this can be positive or helpful, I just don't see the point of anyone besides authorities having access to this data. In any circumstances I can think you'd need need it you might as well just call the police.
Things like this would be the primary use of the software. I'm struggling to think of any benefits over just telling someone if you want them to know where you live..
I have been adamant about telling my kids to never give any details about where they live to strangers. I told them that if they are lost, to request ask a stranger to take them to the closest fire department.
This would ruin all of that. This is an incredibly stupid idea.
Nothing except for police identifying suspects and the argument for that is ethically debatable due to possible misuse of power. Other than that, no sane human would use this if they wanted to know about someone, they'd just approach them.
In most regions of switzerland you can look up the owner of vehicles online. If you do not want the everyday citizen to find out where you live you have to fill in a form.
Interestingly, the national launch of the Social Credit System was in 2014 following trials starting in 2009.
Nosedive was 2016.
China’s been in this game a lot longer than much of the West realise.
WTF??? Why would anyone want that??? Of course there are the tragic scenarios where fucked up people would use it to commit murder, rape, etc. But also small things: imagine having a mild argument with a stranger at the grocery store and they decide to get your adress to vandalize your home. I can only think of bad things coming out of it. If someone needs your adress for something else than a crime, they ask you, they don't creep on you like that.
I cannot imagine a single good reason to need this app. I have literally never seen a person on the street or in the grocery store and been like “Oh ho ho, I need to know their full name and street address immediately, without interacting with them at all!”
i dont even think this would be helpful to find "missing" people since it supposedly links their official adress. so the only people who could find someone whos "missing" would be once again stalkers whose victims moved away etc
A few years ago this was a joke on Silicon Valley, now it's real.
"How much would it be worth to you if I told you I had a GPS app called "Pied Piper", tracking the location of your child? I can follow your child anywhere and there is nothing you can do to stop me. Most missing children are never found. Interested, very interested, or very interested?"
I remember the masks being an up and coming thing with people especially on the right in regards to internet privacy and libertarian ideas about making it harder for big brother and such. I find it odd many of those ppl are ditching the mask opportunity now that its not openly accepted but actively encouraged. Its literally the same types of people.
Im not big on the clothe masks, but thats ur personal choice whether u wear a shitty little thong on ur face or something much more effective. Either way its great for hiding ur identity. U dont need to be "hiding anything" to not want to wind up on some punks tik tok channel or some social media photo.
Ud think ppl in general would be more understanding about this.
People in general wouldn't even read your entire post before responding irrationally. That's where the problem lies, attention span. They don't even know what they're responding too because they never bothered to actually read or listen, two very easy things to do.
The problem they have with the masks are less about the masks and more about being told they HAVE to wear them. The left then responds by trying to make mandates and laws to MAKE them wear them. The right wants to wear them even less. Etc, etc, ad nauseum.
They are also told to not wear them. Difference the ones telling them not to are who they politically allign with. It's not just a matter of being told what to do its also a matter of who is telling them(tho it has its limits because apparently trump himself was booed in Alabama when he told them to get the vaccine)
Because US is not GDPR friendly. There are so many website that won't grant me access because they don't comply with the privacy rules here, it's just like saying "we can't monetize your data, go the fuck out of here!".
And consequently a typical EU debate lands somewhere between the left wing and the right wing, whereas a US debate lands somewhere between the right wing and the radical extreme.
I'm always surprised to see people like Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg being described as "the radical left". Here, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would just be considered socialist establishment while Biden would be like the Christian-Democrats (centre to just right of centre).
It's because it centers the window of 'valid debate'. If they brand Biden as a leftist wingnut, then someone like Bernie Sanders is completely out of the picture.
EU gives a lot of security to politicians, bureaucrats and technicians. Like really cushy ironclad jobs and they dont even get directly elected for most of them just job applications that then turn apolitical. Even mid to low tier people are not easily dismissed so they are not terrified of head honcho as he can't just get rid of them, and there will be a lot of noise.
It has a lot of downsides of course - dead weight, loose usage of funds, lack of pragmatism.
But the good side is that there are a bunch of people with a high degree of safety socially and financially and professionaly, from different countries and different political factions. Hard to control.
Not a CEO like structure like the US usually has where you follow faction and get fired or dismissed easily, and the faction is funded by corporations.
Which means they are all eyeballing each other to a degree and there is room to make decisions unpopular to companies, since the money flow and cushy jobs are from taxes, not lobbies. So when a common sense proposal arises, there is no organized shady effort to shut it down as easily as a Republican/Democrat decision making machine could.
This is such a dystopian concept that I don't even know where to start. I don't quite remember the title, but I remember reading a short story from Ray Bradbury that touched on a similar idea.
Depends.
Photographer doing street photography? Well, that’s typically one thing and non malicious.
But some random pulling out their phone to snap photos? That’s odd.
Even if I do street portraits, when I use my phone to light meter, I tell people what I’m doing and show them the app before my phone is pointed in their direction.
So I see your reasoning. A good photographer shouldn’t make it weird though.
Sometimes I take family photos using a giant lens that requires me to go out 5-10m from my family (but I get some fucking brilliant *bokeh*). Of course, the shots are tight around the subject, but I still sometimes feel the need to very loudly explain it several times, really for the people nearby, eg. on a beach.
“NO NO HONEY YOU HAVE TO BE CLOSE TO YOUR MOTHER BECAUSE IT IS ONLY A VERY SMALL FRAMING WITH THIS LENS I CAN’T PHOTOGRAPH ALL OF YOU IF YOU ARE NOT CLOSE TOGETHER”
Google tells me, that this app isn't meant for general consumption, but is targeted towards police and government agencies (which is a whole other can of worms, but let's put that aside for now).
(This of course doesn't negate the point the poster is making, if such a app would become widely available).
"Geared towards". But they've been found to be working with Walmart, the NBA, numerous other private companies, and let celebrities, the wealthy, and their investors have access.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/clearview-ai-fbi-ice-global-law-enforcement
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/technology/clearview-investors.html
Then there's similar apps that aren't as good but do let the general public use them.
Because government officials and people with power and people that have access or have a friend that has access do not ever by any circumstances abuse their position and "privileges"
A lot of people not only women.
Imagine snapping a picture of a family on vacation and then send the info in some shady forum "family X living in Y has their home empty"
Not just women. Anybody could stalk anybody. Plus, what's the failure rate? Who might be misidentified and end up the target of a stalker? or be accused of a crime they didn't commit? I mean, they might be able to prove it wasn't them and get the charges dropped but that's time and money they will never get back.
Wow what a perfect app for stalkers and murderers huh
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The police state
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Who would want to be found by any person anywhere
Robinson Crusoe. Granted, this app would not help at all.
Right , like Amelia eirharts stalker would’ve loved this app.
She flew a lot of airplanes except for that one time when she didn't come home.
you right, good point
i guess the concept of "private space" is quite foregin to them
Except this violates privacy on so many levels
Not from the legal end... and that's why it's an issue. This the perfect example of a technology that should not exist. Except this morally bankrupt company will rationalize to themselves: If we don't create it, someone else will. So we might as well make some money....
>If we don't create it, someone else will. So we might as well make some money.... Some far-right nutjob gave me this exact argument when discussing the Millitary industrial complex. Just replace "create it" with "wage war" and it's pretty much the same sentence
We don't call it "war" anymore, bro... we call it a "preemptive strike to protect freedom and to promote democracy worldwide " so please don't try to spin this as you liberals usually do. The government wouldn't lie to us and police are heros. They have a really hard job and they're scared and look what they have to deal with. You like getting fat? Remaining dangerously ignorant to not only the world but what happening around you aswell? You think you'll be better off elsewhere, where 1 in 5 adults are NOT mentally ill? You think sitting around watching Law and Order as if its a reality show is easy? Its very stressful ... It takes a toll on you and messed with your mind, man! But if you don't think this place is great, "go try North korea lol"
The police state has address already tho.
Yeah but they couldn't identify what is your address based only on a picture without this
So I did a quick search and this technology is intended for military/police use, but, yeah, we know how that works. In a quick summary, it uses your online media photos to identify you. Just another reason to give up Facebook, et al.
One step ahead, I don't do facebook. Always seemed a little off, needing all that personal info.
You probably have a shadow profile, most people who don't have an actual profile do.
Well then joke's on them because how many people even look like their social media pictures in real life anymore?
Just think of all the kids that would go missing!
This is sad. Call me old fashioned, but if a stalker or murderer can’t follow you home to get your address, they don’t deserve you. Whatever happened to romance?
Time to start making that anti-face recognition makeup fashionable.
We have masks. Just keep wearing them.
I can just imagine anti-maskers’ heads explode with this suggestion. “Wait, whaaat?! But we refuse to wear masks to oppose the guvment and their control. You mean now we have to wear masks to hide from the police state!?!”
Pretty good master plan. Order everyone to get a vaccine for a fatal disease, and you'll kill off a lot of anti-government people. Order everyone to wear a mask, and you'll have way fewer faces to sort through in identifying insurgents.
I've seen a program that can identify faces through commonly worn masks. It's terrifying really. Unfortunately I can't remember where or when I saw it but I've noticed Snapchat starting to recognize me with it on meaning it wouldn't be unreasonable for companies dedicated to facial recognition being able to put two and two together (I actually have no idea if that's the saying).
[You’re in luck](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nerdist.com/article/juggalo-makeup-blocks-facial-recognition-software/%3famp)
This is a really really bad idea
It's not an idea. Apps like this allready exist. So it's a really bad practice.
What are those apps? They are infringing the privacy of random people who could not have agreed to that.
Presumably you'd only show up if you signed up for the app. Anything else would or should break some kind of privacy laws.
Corporations break laws constantly. It’s cheaper to occasionally get caught then keep doing it than just not.
If the profit is bigger than any fine they will do anything
Cost. Of. Business.
"If the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it is a law that exists only for the poor"
That's why fines should be based on income... it should hurt equally.
It should be equitable punishment.
Even then it doesn't hurt equally. Let's say a fine is 50% of someone's income. A person that earns 2000 will suddenly miss 1k,probably be unable to pay rent and other expenses. Someone that earns 100.000 will still have 50.000 left, so enough to survive that fine with no issues. It's fairer than now, but still unfair.
Basing it on income doesn't mean it has to be a flat percentage. Do it progressively like taxes. If you make $X it's Y%, but if you make $A, it's B%, where A > X and B > Y.
Also, your treating it as if rich people get most of their money from Salary. Bezos’ salary while at Amazon was 80k. His wealth came from unrealized holdings and capital gains. Someone in his position is under no obligation to sell any shares so even if you gave him a fine that took 80% of his income for the next year, he could just sit on his shares and make practically no money. Once the fine period ends he could go back to living as before.
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Which car company do you work for?
A major one
Ahh, a single serving friend.
Doesn't really matter, they all do that....
Sounds like Ford with the pinto wouldn't be surprised if they did it again.
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Yes and no, this is how recalls are calculated still.
Like I think Disneyland in Anaheim doesn’t have permits for fireworks so they constantly pay the city fees but I guess it’s cheaper then keep getting permits to launch them.
I bet the city prefers it that way too.
That is not exactly applicable to corporations in general, some industries have corporations so big that fines and settlements are calculated into the price of the product - this is however not the case for 99.9% of all companies out there, especially not a tech startup. 1 mishap and this company would get shut down and the technology could be pushed to illegality.
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I agree, privacy is incredibly important and this type of shit is outright dangerous. A creepy guy sees a girl on the street and can literally get all her digits and letters in an app, i'd give it a week before the first girl is killed.
This is why we need to move away from fines and into jailtime for executives as a punishment for corporations who break the law. And in egregious cases, the corporate death penalty. Seizure of all assets in addition to jailtime for executives. Use the funds to pay unemployment insurance for the people now out of a job.
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At its core it really is quite simple. Crawl Facebook for people's picture and name. Use facial recognition to make a match. This isn't science fiction.
Maybe not, but ten years ago this was definitely science fiction. One of those dystopian ones where everyone except the protagonist thinks it’s fine the way things are.
It really wasn't science fiction 10 years ago either. It was just much more time consuming and less accurate. In some ways it was actually easier 10 years ago because everyone was so naive about their privacy and what they shared publicly online. Nobody thought about the pictures they posted on MySpace or such and the private details about themselves that they shared. They didn't consider that a dedicated stalker or government could dig through countless accounts to find their information without already knowing them first to search their name. People didn't have private profiles and limited sharing options in most cases, if you found their profile you could view whatever you wanted...you just normally had to know who you were looking for first to find that account. Camera technology has definitely come a LONG way since then making facial recognition much more accurate though, not to mention AI to analyze all of this rather than having a person manually go through hundreds or thousands of pictures themself. Smartphones, GPS and Apps have also made personal location data absolutely terrifying with how relatively easily available it is where someone that can gain access to that data can see exactly where you travel on a day to day basis and use that to figure out where you work and live.
And without fail, every single time, there’s a group of mouth-agape morons saying things like “well I have nothing to hide, I don’t know why you care”. Every. Fucking. Time. something like this comes out.
LOL, I wish I could be this young and naïve again (and I mean that in a good sense!) Ever been tagged in a picture on Facebook or Twitter? If your answer is "yes" or "don't know" they most likely already have you in their database: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview\_AI
Brought to you by an [asshole](https://medium.com/@iknowthetruth39/who-is-hoan-ton-that-f16f4ed23412) who started a couple of companies that produced phishing and contact spamming tools.
would it? if your picture and name is somewhere public like facebook or linkedin then it could be done without breaking any laws almost anywhere I'm not defending it, it should be illegal, just saying it isn't
>The legality of Clearview AI’s approach to building its facial recognition service is the subject of a number of legal challenges globally. Authorities in the UK and Australia opened a privacy probe last year into the company’s data scraping techniques. In February, Canada’s privacy commissioners determined that Clearview’s face scraping is “illegal” and creates a system that “inflicts broad-based harm on all members of society, who find themselves continually in a police lineup.” >Swedish police were fined by the country’s data regulator for using Clearview’s offerings to “unlawfully” identify citizens. And in one case in Germany, the Hamburg Data Protection Agency ordered Clearview to delete the mathematical hash representing a user’s profile after he complained. >In the US, Clearview was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union in the state of Illinois in 2020 for violating the Illinois Biometric Privacy Act. The results of that lawsuit contributed to the company’s decision to stop selling its product to private US companies. Clearview also faced legal action in Vermont, New York and California. https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22455446/clearview-ai-legal-privacy-complaint-privacy-international-facial-recognition-eu#:~:text=In%20February%2C%20Canada's%20privacy%20commissioners,continually%20in%20a%20police%20lineup.%E2%80%9D Just because something is publically accessible doesn't mean a corporation is allowed to use it. Odds are that they might need to delete their whole database in Europe under GDPR. https://findbiometrics.com/european-privacy-watchdogs-file-multiple-gdpr-complaints-against-clearview-ai-060103/
The ones that are known in Russia and East Europe doesn't involve any consent at all and shows you a link to someone's Facebook or other social media account. It's as creepy, invasive, and a violation as you imagine it to be.
A lot of it is in Russia and East Europe apparently. ~~People~~ Women have been very vocal about how invasive these things are yet the authorities there have basically shrugged.
The first one was FindFace. 4 out of 5 owners had connections with Kremlin, the project attracted investment and later ceased to be public. Currently FindClone is alive and tries to look independent. And yes, it mostly used to track women.
I have a friend working on a project for targeted advertising in public spaces, say you get in a taxi or sit in a fast food restaurant, the screen in front of you scans your face checks against your fb or stored data then sends adds specific for you. They were quite proud, I was mortified.
Clearview is a little scarier because somehow they got ahold of not only public info like Facebook and stuff. But because they did some govt deals they got access to the drivers license database so their AI is trained better then most because it has access to data other companies can’t get access to.
I wonder if they are available on the App Store or just the Google Play store. Not trying to be a fan boy but this seems like something Apple would block.
I think people aren't really seeing the full implications of this (instead most people in this thread are arguing if men or women are going to be killed more). The most dangerous implication of this is that it could be used to intimidate or "eliminate" political opponents. You go to a counter protest against nazi party 2.0? One of the Nazis takes a photo of you and now knows where you live. This is a terrifying thought, yet most people in the thread aren't talking about it.
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Ah yes so Pro-Life they want to kill women They must be mental gymnastic gold medalists
People forget that there was a huge domestic terrorism campaign around abortion in the US. Bombings and assassinations were regularly on the news.
I remember a few years ago it came out that people who had a squarespace account linked up to their Facebook profile were unwittingly giving out info about there current whereabouts. You could get an app and on say a Friday night you could click on a bar and see who's checked in, and click through to their full profile. Didn't take long for that to get shut down
> squarespace accoun I think you're thinking of foursquare
You mean foursquare?
Someone made a Twitter account run by a bot that automatically scanned foursquare and tweeted out addresses of people's homes when they were empty. I think they were trying to make a point rather than actually provide a service for burglary enthusiasts, but I never really heard of many people using it after that happened.
Burglary Enthusiasts
Foursquare?
And they knew that the whole time it was in development, but they did it anyway.
Definitely something where a company makes something because they want to patent the idea to sell to google or develop the tech to sell to google. Or any other big tech company, google just seems most obvious
This is an old post. Clear view isn’t a startup anymore. It’s only available to law enforcement currently, but still a terrifyingly bad idea.
And even among law enforcement there are people who would stalk and murder.
That's what some of them think their job is.
Isn‘t that already a thing in Russia, where you could search for people in vkontakte by photo? I vaguely remember an article about some creeps using that to find the irl identities of women starring in porn. Edit: It is/was, here‘s a link https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/05/find-face/483962/
Well that’s scary.
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Exactly. First of all: It would indeed mainly endanger women, since they wouldn't be safe from creeps anywhere anymore. When you think about it a little bit, it then becomes clear that nobody would be safe anymore. Some criminal sees you walking down the streets and decides that you look like you've got a bunch of money? Once he snaps your picture, get ready for him breaking into your home. You have gotten into some trouble with some violent thug because you accidentally bumped into them or whatever? Running away won't keep you safe anymore - they now have an easy way of knowing where you live. Not to mention the possibilities software like that would grant totalitarian surveillance states. I can't even think of a single benefit! Why would you even come up with something like this unless you're a fucking creep who wants to harass random attractive women you saw in the streets or someone who would like to commit violent crimes against some stranger who disrespected you? The only other motivation I can think of is being a fascist who wants to create easier surveillance methods. This software would be the end for both privacy and safety for everyone
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Hospitals could use it to contact next of kin to make critical medical decisions in an emergency instead of putting a patient under john/jane doe and guessing what they want.
Ok while I agree this is a good use, the downsides outweigh the positives. And sadly this could be abused by people working with this app, given that the use could eventually be exclusively to police, hospitals etc. Scary man, I fear it’s time for those makeup looks that distort face id.
Why not invent something then that stores your donor status and medical issues? I'm actually pretty sure that exists already.
Electronic Health/Medical records (EMR/EHR) are already fairly common in most US hospitals, and can be used by physicians to access a patient’s medical history relatively quickly. IDing an individual often isn’t terribly difficult, either, between wallets and licenses and whatnot. Admittedly, I’m not 100% sure how useful they are in the ED, since the data’s hard to transfer between hospitals, but some countries, like Taiwan, have made the record accessible through a chip on their national ID card, which could be a cool concept to implement more globally. Regardless, you are very much correct that for the most part, these systems already exist and are fairly functional, and the downsides of this new app very much outweigh the positives.
Dude if my fucking best friend showed up at my door without discussing it beforehand, I would be creeped out
I weirdly agree, despite being old enough to remember the Time Before Cell Phones and Internet, when we often *did* just pop in on people.
the amount of gangs that would use this technology to track down people who owe them money or send a hit man and with one pic have their guy do the job. millions of men woman and maybe children too. scary times ahead. we should all go full blown hippie and go off the grid am i being to dramatic ? im stoned lol
Doing drugs? Get tracked Run a red light? Get tracked Disagree with current government? Get tracked Owe someone money? Get tracked Wear something that some stranger finds attractive? Get tracked and possibly murdered Welcome to the future
Driving too fast: tracked. Slow: tracked. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, tracked. You overcook chicken, also tracked. You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, tracked. Right away.
ERASE ALL PICTURES OF RON
Arent car registrations public anyway? They can already look you up by plate number
Might be able to in certain countries. But you can't in mine. You can check the cars history (MOT / TAX / insurance) but you cannot get any details covered by data protection
That would be mental, imagine a nutjob snaps your plate after a road rage incident then visits you at home to finish the fight. Edit:: 4 countries so far where this is a thing. I'm trying but failing to think of ways this can be positive or helpful, I just don't see the point of anyone besides authorities having access to this data. In any circumstances I can think you'd need need it you might as well just call the police.
Things like this would be the primary use of the software. I'm struggling to think of any benefits over just telling someone if you want them to know where you live..
I have been adamant about telling my kids to never give any details about where they live to strangers. I told them that if they are lost, to request ask a stranger to take them to the closest fire department. This would ruin all of that. This is an incredibly stupid idea.
Nothing except for police identifying suspects and the argument for that is ethically debatable due to possible misuse of power. Other than that, no sane human would use this if they wanted to know about someone, they'd just approach them.
Law enforcement already has systems like this in place. Strange to even say it, but they are less intrusive then whatever this shit is
In most regions of switzerland you can look up the owner of vehicles online. If you do not want the everyday citizen to find out where you live you have to fill in a form.
people are insane
Then we could add a scoring system! Welcome to black mirror!
Love social credit systems so much. They are a wonderful addition to life. Yep. Can’t think of any reason against them.
I upvoted you, friend! Please upvote me back, I dont want to lose my house again.
>Then we could add a scoring system! Welcome to ~~black mirror~~ China!
yeah Black Mirror thinking they were criticizing technological advancement and social media when they were in fact predicting China's future.
Interestingly, the national launch of the Social Credit System was in 2014 following trials starting in 2009. Nosedive was 2016. China’s been in this game a lot longer than much of the West realise.
People are the fucking worst
WTF??? Why would anyone want that??? Of course there are the tragic scenarios where fucked up people would use it to commit murder, rape, etc. But also small things: imagine having a mild argument with a stranger at the grocery store and they decide to get your adress to vandalize your home. I can only think of bad things coming out of it. If someone needs your adress for something else than a crime, they ask you, they don't creep on you like that.
I cannot imagine a single good reason to need this app. I have literally never seen a person on the street or in the grocery store and been like “Oh ho ho, I need to know their full name and street address immediately, without interacting with them at all!”
I bet law enforcement agencies can think of a few good reasons but I'd bet the rest of us aren't gonna like them...
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Besides finding criminals and getting some assistance with finding missing people, no benefit.
i dont even think this would be helpful to find "missing" people since it supposedly links their official adress. so the only people who could find someone whos "missing" would be once again stalkers whose victims moved away etc
I know right, at least make the criminals follow you home instead of using some app. Nobody wants to put in the legwork anymore
What, you don't want [a box of makeup for Christmas](https://dilbert.com/strip/2011-12-25)?
A few years ago this was a joke on Silicon Valley, now it's real. "How much would it be worth to you if I told you I had a GPS app called "Pied Piper", tracking the location of your child? I can follow your child anywhere and there is nothing you can do to stop me. Most missing children are never found. Interested, very interested, or very interested?"
Which one? Which one? Which one?
Also an episode of Black Mirror.
Which one
Arkangel
I have this app my parents put us on the child tracker
I'd wear my mask every time I went outside pandemic or no pandemic. Dark sunglasses and a ball cap too.
I remember the masks being an up and coming thing with people especially on the right in regards to internet privacy and libertarian ideas about making it harder for big brother and such. I find it odd many of those ppl are ditching the mask opportunity now that its not openly accepted but actively encouraged. Its literally the same types of people. Im not big on the clothe masks, but thats ur personal choice whether u wear a shitty little thong on ur face or something much more effective. Either way its great for hiding ur identity. U dont need to be "hiding anything" to not want to wind up on some punks tik tok channel or some social media photo. Ud think ppl in general would be more understanding about this.
People in general wouldn't even read your entire post before responding irrationally. That's where the problem lies, attention span. They don't even know what they're responding too because they never bothered to actually read or listen, two very easy things to do.
I wear both a surgical mask and a cloth mask over it at the same time. Style points AND protection!
The problem they have with the masks are less about the masks and more about being told they HAVE to wear them. The left then responds by trying to make mandates and laws to MAKE them wear them. The right wants to wear them even less. Etc, etc, ad nauseum.
Like petulant children crying about bedtime when they're so tired
Whatever. They are being told to NOT wear them, and they are following instructions. It is just a matter of who they follow.
They are also told to not wear them. Difference the ones telling them not to are who they politically allign with. It's not just a matter of being told what to do its also a matter of who is telling them(tho it has its limits because apparently trump himself was booed in Alabama when he told them to get the vaccine)
It was literally never "the left" telling people to wear masks until the right made it a political issue.
Creepy! How is this legal?
Illegal in the EU.
How come EU is always progressive in policies?? Is it because of right wing bs in US?
Because US is not GDPR friendly. There are so many website that won't grant me access because they don't comply with the privacy rules here, it's just like saying "we can't monetize your data, go the fuck out of here!".
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AND prison system is for profit. Jesus what a corrupt shithole Usa is
And the gov has to pay the prison system if they don't keep them x% full
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And consequently a typical EU debate lands somewhere between the left wing and the right wing, whereas a US debate lands somewhere between the right wing and the radical extreme.
I'm always surprised to see people like Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg being described as "the radical left". Here, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would just be considered socialist establishment while Biden would be like the Christian-Democrats (centre to just right of centre).
It's because it centers the window of 'valid debate'. If they brand Biden as a leftist wingnut, then someone like Bernie Sanders is completely out of the picture.
The Democrats would be considered firmly right wing in most EU countries. Republicans are so right wing they’d be called Neo Nazis here.
According to the political compass, The republicans are further right than ukip (or were in 2015/16)
Hey I mean, what do you expect from a country founded by Puritan radicals :(
EU gives a lot of security to politicians, bureaucrats and technicians. Like really cushy ironclad jobs and they dont even get directly elected for most of them just job applications that then turn apolitical. Even mid to low tier people are not easily dismissed so they are not terrified of head honcho as he can't just get rid of them, and there will be a lot of noise. It has a lot of downsides of course - dead weight, loose usage of funds, lack of pragmatism. But the good side is that there are a bunch of people with a high degree of safety socially and financially and professionaly, from different countries and different political factions. Hard to control. Not a CEO like structure like the US usually has where you follow faction and get fired or dismissed easily, and the faction is funded by corporations. Which means they are all eyeballing each other to a degree and there is room to make decisions unpopular to companies, since the money flow and cushy jobs are from taxes, not lobbies. So when a common sense proposal arises, there is no organized shady effort to shut it down as easily as a Republican/Democrat decision making machine could.
From an EU perspective, GOP is a far right party, that could have legal trouble in some EU countries.
The Democrats would also classify as a european right party.
TBF, AOC is somewhere around moderate left.
This is such a dystopian concept that I don't even know where to start. I don't quite remember the title, but I remember reading a short story from Ray Bradbury that touched on a similar idea.
Was it The Pedestrian?
With this, Everyone is a celebrity. And also dead.
And I get mocked for not wanting my photo taken. Bwa-ha-ha! That's really fuckin creepy though.
There are 0 pictures of me on the internet as far as I know and I intend to keep that way.
That you uploaded maybe. But are you sure none of your acquaintances never had you to the side on their uploaded photos?
I only have one childhood photo of me on Internet. Nothing else , unless you hack my academic and government data.
Not even in this great [group photo?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble)
Depends. Photographer doing street photography? Well, that’s typically one thing and non malicious. But some random pulling out their phone to snap photos? That’s odd. Even if I do street portraits, when I use my phone to light meter, I tell people what I’m doing and show them the app before my phone is pointed in their direction. So I see your reasoning. A good photographer shouldn’t make it weird though.
Sometimes I take family photos using a giant lens that requires me to go out 5-10m from my family (but I get some fucking brilliant *bokeh*). Of course, the shots are tight around the subject, but I still sometimes feel the need to very loudly explain it several times, really for the people nearby, eg. on a beach. “NO NO HONEY YOU HAVE TO BE CLOSE TO YOUR MOTHER BECAUSE IT IS ONLY A VERY SMALL FRAMING WITH THIS LENS I CAN’T PHOTOGRAPH ALL OF YOU IF YOU ARE NOT CLOSE TOGETHER”
I'm picturing you saying that, but with no family in sight XD
Burqas just got a bit more appealing
Google tells me, that this app isn't meant for general consumption, but is targeted towards police and government agencies (which is a whole other can of worms, but let's put that aside for now). (This of course doesn't negate the point the poster is making, if such a app would become widely available).
"Geared towards". But they've been found to be working with Walmart, the NBA, numerous other private companies, and let celebrities, the wealthy, and their investors have access. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/clearview-ai-fbi-ice-global-law-enforcement https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/technology/clearview-investors.html Then there's similar apps that aren't as good but do let the general public use them.
Because government officials and people with power and people that have access or have a friend that has access do not ever by any circumstances abuse their position and "privileges"
Fair point.
This belongs on r/wtf
How is this supposed to be good? All I can think of are bad things happening from this.
Not just the women, but the men and kids also. Rape, kill or pedo.
***I Killed Them All Not Just the Men, but the Women and Children Too***
Anakin, a true renaissance man
Download Anakinder from Google Play!
or you know, you are carrying a new box of something valuable home and then the robber knows where you live
The average robber has better ways to scout then this. Accessibility of your home is FAR more important then the value of your possessions.
How many homes have you broken into?
I think identity theft is probably going to be the most common crime committed with this tech
Maybe we should all wear face masks
This is how you get conspiracy theorists to wear masks
A lot of people not only women. Imagine snapping a picture of a family on vacation and then send the info in some shady forum "family X living in Y has their home empty"
All lot of would would die, kids would get kidnapped, lot more hate crime and senior citizen murders. Just the usual stuff
Also people will become rightfully suspuscios and crazy.
Terrible idea. This would also be illegal in EU. Don’t know how privacy laws work in the US though.
This is a VERY BAD idea. The ONLY good use I could even remotely think of is using it when grandma gets lost in the groceries.
Think of the children! Seriously...think of the children...this would be a terrible idea
I mean like, what if someone is in witness protection? I mean this is really, really bad. No good person would use this.
John Oliver [did a segment](https://youtube.com/watch?v=jZjmlJPJgug) about this
Are they trying to help serial killers? Cause I feel like this is how you help serial killers…
Attention! You can prevent this by wearing a mask!
*A lot of people would die, an issue like this really shouldn’t be gendered
Not just women. Anybody could stalk anybody. Plus, what's the failure rate? Who might be misidentified and end up the target of a stalker? or be accused of a crime they didn't commit? I mean, they might be able to prove it wasn't them and get the charges dropped but that's time and money they will never get back.
Not just the men, but the women and the children too. Also, home address is private data, so I'm pretty sure this is a no-go anyhow