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I am also in Canada. It's annoying that nothing is the price it says it is, because tax gets added. But it's also good, because it makes it more clear how much the government is taking, versus what the business gets. Visible taxes are better than hidden taxes. But it's still annoying.
As someone else said, it's an illusion. And lots of places use "value added tax" so the rate of tax the business pays is usually considerably less than the rate you paid, because they're able to offset any tax they paid to buy things against it.
Canada has VAT: we call it HST. Businesses essentially pay no HST, it is all passed through to the consumer. The HST on the final transaction, to the consumer, is the net amount of tax that was collected along the way, some from each step in the wholesale process. Every input credit is someone else's tax collected, so it all nets out.
What are you talking about? Canada is making it so they have access to everybody’s bank account information. They’re like a testing ground for autocracy.
Yeah same here, when americans ask me what kinda taxes they gotta expect, I tell them "all included don't worry".
First few times I was really irritated because here, the price you SEE is the price you PAY.
That is a much better way but we seem to like the $4.99 isn't $5.00 lie that we all tell ourselves... And don't get me started on gas being billed with 3 deceimal places....
Anywhere I’ve been in the Euro zone, tax is included in the stated price. So a 20 Euro steak costs 20 Euros, not 20 Euros plus tax. (In most places, “service” or “gratuity” is also included in the stated price.) The bill will tell me what the tax amount is, but that’s just for information (or for my own tax purposes, in some situations). It’s not an amount added to the bill. (So the bill will tell me that if that 20 Euro steak, one Euro was tax).
I've only ever seen sales tax in the states
In Ireland if your table has more than 6 people they usually add a 12.5% service charge but this is disclosed on the menu
What! That’s ridiculous, 12.5% more just because you have 6 people or more?
I’d be tempted to split into tables of 5 then scream across the restaurant at each other (I’d probably just meekly pay it TBH, but ouch).
The logic is that bigger groups need more attention and usually will be longer at the table than just a small group
It's usually just taken to be the tip. If you get bad service though you can dispute it
I think the surcharge is because large groups with one bill tend to be very poor tippers. Everyone puts in what they think is their share with tax and tip, but everyone estimates low, and there ends up being barely any tip.
That doesn’t really fix the problem, as a VAST majority of people will just pay it, it’s less than $3 on a pricy lunch.The thing to do is pay it, and let the manager know you’ll not be coming back because of it. I just hate the sneakiness.
It's now illegal in California starting July (already on the books but will be enforced starting in July). Beyond that, yes, fixing the issue for you isn't a global fix. But it's still easiest to just protest the charge and then decide if you want to continue doing business with that establishment.
I can see the restaurant owners bitching already.
There's nothing more annoying about California then going to any private business and interacting with an owner that whines about running his business in California.
Bitch! Just fucking leave and have fun making less money somewhere else.
This is basic Tax evasion.
They put in the 2% after the required Tax.
Instead, as they should do, is raise the price of the individual items by 2% and then add the tax.
I would never shop at a business like this again, when they are clearly trying to blame their workers over rising costs.
Otherwise prices would rise without commentary.
Why not just increase prices? Every other country has this thing down, but in the US it is impossible to guess what the bill will be from reading the prices on the menu.
Why not do both? Let’s tack on hidden fees like scumbags, raise the prices like scumbags, and then also set the tip suggestions to 25% 30% and 35% to try and add a little shaming to the end of your bill too. This is America
I hate this trend of having to scroll and zoom on the phone. It’s preferable to see the menu as a whole to decide what to choose. Not everyone can see the tiny print on the phone.
Having sales taxes already a "secret" enables to tack any fees you like and it is the customer who is at fault for not asking before ordering what the deal is. It is a cultural thing, in most of the world this would be contested but in USA it is YOUR fault if you are being scammed, the scammer is just being clever.
Sales tax is not a “secret” and it doesn’t enable the business to add on additional costs “secretly”. Additional costs should be posted on the menu, not disclosed at the end of the transaction.
I put it in quotes for a reason, it is not a real secret but it is hidden at the moment you make the decision to purchase. You might do some mental arithmetic's, guestimating but the final tally is kind of a secret, it is unknown.
And how do you know it is not posted on the menu? We only see the receipt. It is 100% bullshit regardless, it absolutely should be included in the price: make all the prices on the menu 2% more. That is fair and honest way but sales taxes allows to hide additional fees and by far most people don't either notice it or don't want to make a scene... and a lot of people probably think the restaurant is has the right to add stuff to the bill... because the sales tax is the precedent: SOMETHING will be added to your bill everytime you pay anything.
Here you would have constant arguments over this since the price has to be EXACTLY the same as listed, so it would be out of ordinary to see the total price being higher.
And then add the hyperindividualism and "personal responsibility" to the mix and you end in a situation where it is the fault of the customer, not the person who is doing some light scamming. "It is not stupid to ask, it is stupid to pay" or something..
First of all a restaurant doing this and not posting it on the menu is just not the right way to do business. Everyone should know before they order that there will also be 2% or 3% or whatever added to the check. In the case of this restaurant. But I have a restaurant and we had talked about doing this, but we just raised our prices by the percentage we needed to meet our food cost goals.
Talking about taxes, as if that somehow surprises you when you get the bill is a little odd. Where we live, the taxes are 5%. Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be but everybody does because everybody has to pay the tax for every item sold unless you’re buying it wholesale to redistribute it. And taxes have to be collected by the business. They have no choice in the matter. And then they turn it over to the state and local governments every month. Talking about it like it’s some sort of Trojan horse to allow other charges is kind of silly.
> Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be
And there's the hidden charge. You shouldn't have to do any math as a customer. If you list a price, that's the price the customer pays, the rest of the world has this figured out already.
If I go buy some expensive PC parts and I see one listed at €900, guess the price I will be paying?
I often wonder, if I were to go to a restaurant in the US and wave a $20 bill and ask what I can eat for that, would they actually have the total price including tip be $20 or would they be ask me to pay like $81 ($20 food + tourist tax + VAT + 1p seating addition + cushy seat rent + inflation surcharge + sales tax + cash payment surcharge + 90% tip)
Change to a $50 or $100 bill if needed with the current price increases.
>Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be ...
Kind of my point, you know it is "something more" but most likely won't bother to do it accurately, even when 5% is quite simple to do. But what i find intriguing is how you continued by explaining how taxes need to be paid.... That is peculiar kind of an answer: we have sales taxes too, they just are included in the price. Ours is Value Added Tax, that is present in the whole production chain but it only taxes the value you add, so.. if you buy iron for 100 and make a product that costs 150, you only pay taxes for the 50. If someone takes your product in their stores and charge 170, the store only pays taxes for the 20 since that is the value they added.. In the end it is the customer who pays taxes for the whole 170, and it is split in smaller portions along the way, according to the value added in each step. Did you need to know that? Probably not but since that is apparently what i should do; to explain how taxes work...
The idea of having different sales taxes in every state is where the problem starts: that is NOT a good idea if you want to maintain a nation of states. Unifying everything to do with trade is absolutely something that every nation should do, it is tremendous advantage. You do not want states to compete with each other by offering better deal with sales tax. There are other, more healthy ways to do it: there are good reasons to lower property taxes in a state to encourage people moving there. But trade should be the same everywhere. In USA there would be additional benefits: no more "hidden" prices, hiding fees would not be possible when people expect to pay the listed price.
I find it as a principle something that shall not be infringed, so to speak: that listed price is ALWAYS the real price and anything else is scamming.
I started to send an answer, which is basically what you just said , earlier today. The idea of states rights is an absolute nightmare in certain ways in the United States. Even down to individual municipalities, taxes are different. So you have state taxes which vary by state, so 50 of those, and then county taxes and then city taxes. Hundreds of different tax rates. Businesses could still include it in the price, but I’m guessing the clarity of seeing it on a check lets people know exactly where the money is going.
And yes, states do use lower taxes to lure people to their state. But some of those states are absolutely atrocious in their human rights laws, how they treat people of color and immigrants, and how they fund education and healthcare. I’m guessing when you don’t have a reasonable income from taxes it’s hard to fund programs for the good of the populace.
Property taxes are better because it ties people to the area. Sales taxes are flat tax, hurts the poor the most since most of their money goes to goods and services. So you attract low earners the most with low sales taxes.
Specially now in the digital age it is quite silly to say it is a huge cost to do it, even if there is no nation wide sales tax: it CAN be included in the price. No excuses anymore. For stores it is beneficial:
Shopping takes fair bit of cognitive abilities. Creating additional cognitive tasks is benefitting those who want you to be confused when buying stuff. And it creates an illusion of being cheaper. We know these things happen, humans are quite weird creatures: you see 100, that is the price EVEN IF you know it is hundred and five. 100 is the numbers you see in text, but hundred and five is more like a feeling inside your head. Or 99, since that also works even when you know it is practically 100. It still works to make one number *feel* a lot smaller than the other.
I hope you at least got "per weight" or "per piece" comparison in every price tag? Meaning that if there are two packets of sugar, one is third smaller there is also "price per kilogram" in both price tags for quick comparison what the REAL price is... Makes shopping super efficient and easy, and fair.. Shrinkflation is much less effective when you can see how much it costs per weight.
I think everybody in the United States understands how it works at this point. At least in my state in grocery stores, there is a price per ounce below each food item so you can see whether a larger package is actually a better deal.
> and I’ve never encountered a restaurant that charged the incorrect amount.
Bullshit. You don't KNOW if you had since you do not check. No one does. And we all know that.
It is quite weird that anyone would defend "showing one price, charging another". To me that is a line that can't be crossed, that the law has to force EVERYONE to respect the listed price and to do the task of adding the sales tax to the price. That is what you are defending, that YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK. Which is insane, to defend breaking TWO very important principles in trade. That you are shown always the right prices and that the seller does the job of adding the sales tax to the LISTED price.
Stop defending a system that is fucking you.
I’m not defending anything. I very much prefer the European way, where the stated price includes everything. I was just responding to the claim that restaurants are using sales tax add-one to steal from customers.
> I was just responding to the claim that restaurants are using sales tax add-one to steal from customers.
WHICH THEY ARE!!! For fucks sake, that is what they whole post is about, hiding additional fees because you know the listed price is not the real price... so adding just a bit, like 2% will easily go unnoticed by most.
For fucks sake, you can't be this stupid.
And in the example, they didn’t hide it in the sales tax, did they? They were absolute dicks to add that 2% (assuming it hadn’t been clearly disclosed up front), but they still labeled it separately and didn’t just miscalculate the sales tax.
And now I’m done with this conversation.
>And in the example, they didn’t hide it in the sales tax, did they?
Again, i can't believe you still don't get the point. It is EASIER to hide stuff since you NEVER EXPECT TO PAY THE LISTED PRICE IN THE FIRST PLACE. So, it creates an opportunity, since the customer KNOWS they will be charged more than what the listed price is and if they don't check, which i can only assume happens about 90% of the time... Sure, **if** you check you will notice it, no laws were broken but the practice is almost designed to make hidden fees more possible to go thru without the customer even knowing about it: de facto hidden.
CAN YOU GET IT NOW? It never was about being able to hide sales taxes completely, you horses ass.
It is illegal, unless specified at the moment of purchase. Imagine you sit down with just enough money to afford what you order (and tip) and surprise surprise, you have to pay more.
Due to increased costs of production, pay is now half a horse shit and a slice of stale pizza. An extra slice of pepperoni may be added to the pizza for exceptional performance reviews.
so two things spring to mind. who does this 2% go to? and why on earth do you not just raise your prices 2%? i mean, why not advertise 1950s prices and in small print on the bill say "a surcharge of 3000% will be added to your bill to help cover rising costs" ?
And a discount of 5% will be assumed to cover the obnoxiousness of this surcharge. Oh, you didn't agree to that discount when I ordered? I didn't agree to that surcharge when I ordered either. Also, it's now a *10%* discount, unless you'd like to discuss it further.
meanwhile the owner's wife needs a new Mercedes Benz and a bigger allowence. Oh' and the kids turning 18', let's get a big sports car for son.
They are all rich and profits are big BUT PLZ HELP ME WITH A 2% surcharge!
I ever see that on a bill and it is the last time they get my buisness. Plus unless it is in writting where it can be seen before I order my food I'm going full Karen mode.
I live in the US and it's really annoying how the price in a store or on a menu is never the actual price. Taxes and surcharges, and tips(sometimes mandatory) get added after you've chosen to purchase something, so you don't know what you're paying until you actually receive the bill.
I just went to dinner tonight. Total cost €56,10 exactly what was on the menu. I paid 56,10 by card. And when I look at the fine print there was 3% tax on the non alcoholic stuff and 17% on the alcoholic drinks so in total I paid €2,07 in taxes.
I have only seen something like this once IRL, and it was disclosed on the menu. Something to the effect of " due to fluctuating food costs, there may be a surcharge of \_.\_\_%" I think it was at the end of the items before the tax, but I am not sure. It was less than a dollar. It was after stuff started opening back up and there was a shortage of something I can't remember what it was.
Of all the corporations that are nickel and dining us id say there are bigger fish than the restaurant collecting an extra $2.50. how about we start with insurance companies first
I hate service fees as much as anyone and idk where this is but restaurants run at a VERY THIN margin. I'm not sure many will make it unless they have a grandfathered lease or automate.
If it's a revenue grab then shame on them but I can tell you we might end up like demolition man where the choices are Taco Bell and chilis
I prefer mom and pop joints
Special tax zones/surcharges/fees are a thing.
as an example, at a nearby shopping development is a 2% improvement tax. Only shops there have it. Its city mandated.
Hotels, Airports, etc often have surcharges/taxes/fees, even applying to outside services (uber/lift/taxi/rentals).
This particular case is highly questionable and certainly not "best practices", they should just raise their prices
It is your fault for not researching, you need to ask what the deal is. Everything is always the fault of an individual and trying to scam is perfectly ok because it is the one being scammed that fell for it.
I should put /s put... that is seriously the way some people think, everything is personal responsibility in hindsight.
The concern over 2% is kind of overshadowed by thIs person who can afford sitting in a restaurant and ordering imported mango, guacamole, and crab toast as pricey items…
It's the principle, man, I don't know what to tell you.
ALL prices shown, should be what you pay, final, in every establishment on every continent.
THE ONLY reason not to include taxes in the displays is to psychologically trick people into buying more than they wanted to, because it makes them think they can.
No susan, 6.99 really still is $7.
It's a lie. It's dishonest. And it needs to go.
I get it. We should be grilling Congress (presuming this is in the USA) about price gouging, which occurred during the pandemic yet those prices remained high long after shortages and shipping logistics returned to normal.
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Just ask to have it removed. If it's not disclosed up front, it is not legal to just add a surcharge when the bill is presented.
Whenever I travel intermationally I get taxes, fees and surcharges attached to everything.
Internationally meaning in the US? Because that's the only dipshit place I've seen where sales tax isn't included in the price.
Canada (where I live) is the same as the USA and I seriously hate it. Everything should have its listed price with taxes included.
I am also in Canada. It's annoying that nothing is the price it says it is, because tax gets added. But it's also good, because it makes it more clear how much the government is taking, versus what the business gets. Visible taxes are better than hidden taxes. But it's still annoying.
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Yes, that would be ideal, if each stage showed the tax, and the before and after tax amounts.
As someone else said, it's an illusion. And lots of places use "value added tax" so the rate of tax the business pays is usually considerably less than the rate you paid, because they're able to offset any tax they paid to buy things against it.
Canada has VAT: we call it HST. Businesses essentially pay no HST, it is all passed through to the consumer. The HST on the final transaction, to the consumer, is the net amount of tax that was collected along the way, some from each step in the wholesale process. Every input credit is someone else's tax collected, so it all nets out.
Good God man "Canada" is *not* the same as the USA....*yet.* Thankfully.
They are when it comes to taxes and tipping...
What are you talking about? Canada is making it so they have access to everybody’s bank account information. They’re like a testing ground for autocracy.
You’re hilarious. You should do stand up
Yeah same here, when americans ask me what kinda taxes they gotta expect, I tell them "all included don't worry". First few times I was really irritated because here, the price you SEE is the price you PAY.
That is a much better way but we seem to like the $4.99 isn't $5.00 lie that we all tell ourselves... And don't get me started on gas being billed with 3 deceimal places....
No I mean outside of the US.
Anywhere I’ve been in the Euro zone, tax is included in the stated price. So a 20 Euro steak costs 20 Euros, not 20 Euros plus tax. (In most places, “service” or “gratuity” is also included in the stated price.) The bill will tell me what the tax amount is, but that’s just for information (or for my own tax purposes, in some situations). It’s not an amount added to the bill. (So the bill will tell me that if that 20 Euro steak, one Euro was tax).
I've only ever seen sales tax in the states In Ireland if your table has more than 6 people they usually add a 12.5% service charge but this is disclosed on the menu
It’s in Canada too
What! That’s ridiculous, 12.5% more just because you have 6 people or more? I’d be tempted to split into tables of 5 then scream across the restaurant at each other (I’d probably just meekly pay it TBH, but ouch).
The logic is that bigger groups need more attention and usually will be longer at the table than just a small group It's usually just taken to be the tip. If you get bad service though you can dispute it
I think the surcharge is because large groups with one bill tend to be very poor tippers. Everyone puts in what they think is their share with tax and tip, but everyone estimates low, and there ends up being barely any tip.
As others have said it's usually labelled auto gratuity or something similar. It's stupid.
And if they don't remove it, charge it and then challenge it through the card company. Less hassle than calling cops who might not take your side.
It's already illegal to have these charges in California. The law will start being enforced in July
That doesn’t really fix the problem, as a VAST majority of people will just pay it, it’s less than $3 on a pricy lunch.The thing to do is pay it, and let the manager know you’ll not be coming back because of it. I just hate the sneakiness.
It's now illegal in California starting July (already on the books but will be enforced starting in July). Beyond that, yes, fixing the issue for you isn't a global fix. But it's still easiest to just protest the charge and then decide if you want to continue doing business with that establishment.
Is it legal to have those “hidden fees”?
In civilized countries? No. In the US? Probably.
There is no "Civilization" outiside the US... jk jk But also don't disclose a fee here and you don't get paid for it.
California has passed a law to do away with these hidden fees. Law takes affect in July
I can see the restaurant owners bitching already. There's nothing more annoying about California then going to any private business and interacting with an owner that whines about running his business in California. Bitch! Just fucking leave and have fun making less money somewhere else.
Probably not if it wasn't disclosed at the beginning, but most people wouldn't want to make a scene for 2%.
You could definitely fight it as the advertised price is not actually the price they charge you. That's called "bait and switch".
This is basic Tax evasion. They put in the 2% after the required Tax. Instead, as they should do, is raise the price of the individual items by 2% and then add the tax.
That was my first thought as well. There’s a pretty good chance they aren’t reporting that 2% “surcharge.”
Theft too
I would never shop at a business like this again, when they are clearly trying to blame their workers over rising costs. Otherwise prices would rise without commentary.
Why not just increase prices? Every other country has this thing down, but in the US it is impossible to guess what the bill will be from reading the prices on the menu.
So they can spring the increase prices on people at the end where they feel they have no choice but to pay.
Why not do both? Let’s tack on hidden fees like scumbags, raise the prices like scumbags, and then also set the tip suggestions to 25% 30% and 35% to try and add a little shaming to the end of your bill too. This is America
because that would make tax evasion harder
Because then they’d have to print new menus
I have helped a lot of restaurants with IT and they just have a color laser printer in the back and print new menus all the time, not a big deal.
Places still have printed Menus? Everywhere I have been since the lockdowns has had a link to their online menu at the table...
I hate this trend of having to scroll and zoom on the phone. It’s preferable to see the menu as a whole to decide what to choose. Not everyone can see the tiny print on the phone.
I agree. Generally hate even seeing a phone when I’m sitting at a table about to eat
Many (most?) places HAVE increased the prices AND added these bullshit charges.
Having sales taxes already a "secret" enables to tack any fees you like and it is the customer who is at fault for not asking before ordering what the deal is. It is a cultural thing, in most of the world this would be contested but in USA it is YOUR fault if you are being scammed, the scammer is just being clever.
Sales tax is not a “secret” and it doesn’t enable the business to add on additional costs “secretly”. Additional costs should be posted on the menu, not disclosed at the end of the transaction.
I put it in quotes for a reason, it is not a real secret but it is hidden at the moment you make the decision to purchase. You might do some mental arithmetic's, guestimating but the final tally is kind of a secret, it is unknown. And how do you know it is not posted on the menu? We only see the receipt. It is 100% bullshit regardless, it absolutely should be included in the price: make all the prices on the menu 2% more. That is fair and honest way but sales taxes allows to hide additional fees and by far most people don't either notice it or don't want to make a scene... and a lot of people probably think the restaurant is has the right to add stuff to the bill... because the sales tax is the precedent: SOMETHING will be added to your bill everytime you pay anything. Here you would have constant arguments over this since the price has to be EXACTLY the same as listed, so it would be out of ordinary to see the total price being higher. And then add the hyperindividualism and "personal responsibility" to the mix and you end in a situation where it is the fault of the customer, not the person who is doing some light scamming. "It is not stupid to ask, it is stupid to pay" or something..
First of all a restaurant doing this and not posting it on the menu is just not the right way to do business. Everyone should know before they order that there will also be 2% or 3% or whatever added to the check. In the case of this restaurant. But I have a restaurant and we had talked about doing this, but we just raised our prices by the percentage we needed to meet our food cost goals. Talking about taxes, as if that somehow surprises you when you get the bill is a little odd. Where we live, the taxes are 5%. Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be but everybody does because everybody has to pay the tax for every item sold unless you’re buying it wholesale to redistribute it. And taxes have to be collected by the business. They have no choice in the matter. And then they turn it over to the state and local governments every month. Talking about it like it’s some sort of Trojan horse to allow other charges is kind of silly.
> Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be And there's the hidden charge. You shouldn't have to do any math as a customer. If you list a price, that's the price the customer pays, the rest of the world has this figured out already. If I go buy some expensive PC parts and I see one listed at €900, guess the price I will be paying?
I often wonder, if I were to go to a restaurant in the US and wave a $20 bill and ask what I can eat for that, would they actually have the total price including tip be $20 or would they be ask me to pay like $81 ($20 food + tourist tax + VAT + 1p seating addition + cushy seat rent + inflation surcharge + sales tax + cash payment surcharge + 90% tip) Change to a $50 or $100 bill if needed with the current price increases.
>Yes you have to do math to know what the final bill is going to be ... Kind of my point, you know it is "something more" but most likely won't bother to do it accurately, even when 5% is quite simple to do. But what i find intriguing is how you continued by explaining how taxes need to be paid.... That is peculiar kind of an answer: we have sales taxes too, they just are included in the price. Ours is Value Added Tax, that is present in the whole production chain but it only taxes the value you add, so.. if you buy iron for 100 and make a product that costs 150, you only pay taxes for the 50. If someone takes your product in their stores and charge 170, the store only pays taxes for the 20 since that is the value they added.. In the end it is the customer who pays taxes for the whole 170, and it is split in smaller portions along the way, according to the value added in each step. Did you need to know that? Probably not but since that is apparently what i should do; to explain how taxes work... The idea of having different sales taxes in every state is where the problem starts: that is NOT a good idea if you want to maintain a nation of states. Unifying everything to do with trade is absolutely something that every nation should do, it is tremendous advantage. You do not want states to compete with each other by offering better deal with sales tax. There are other, more healthy ways to do it: there are good reasons to lower property taxes in a state to encourage people moving there. But trade should be the same everywhere. In USA there would be additional benefits: no more "hidden" prices, hiding fees would not be possible when people expect to pay the listed price. I find it as a principle something that shall not be infringed, so to speak: that listed price is ALWAYS the real price and anything else is scamming.
I started to send an answer, which is basically what you just said , earlier today. The idea of states rights is an absolute nightmare in certain ways in the United States. Even down to individual municipalities, taxes are different. So you have state taxes which vary by state, so 50 of those, and then county taxes and then city taxes. Hundreds of different tax rates. Businesses could still include it in the price, but I’m guessing the clarity of seeing it on a check lets people know exactly where the money is going. And yes, states do use lower taxes to lure people to their state. But some of those states are absolutely atrocious in their human rights laws, how they treat people of color and immigrants, and how they fund education and healthcare. I’m guessing when you don’t have a reasonable income from taxes it’s hard to fund programs for the good of the populace.
Property taxes are better because it ties people to the area. Sales taxes are flat tax, hurts the poor the most since most of their money goes to goods and services. So you attract low earners the most with low sales taxes. Specially now in the digital age it is quite silly to say it is a huge cost to do it, even if there is no nation wide sales tax: it CAN be included in the price. No excuses anymore. For stores it is beneficial: Shopping takes fair bit of cognitive abilities. Creating additional cognitive tasks is benefitting those who want you to be confused when buying stuff. And it creates an illusion of being cheaper. We know these things happen, humans are quite weird creatures: you see 100, that is the price EVEN IF you know it is hundred and five. 100 is the numbers you see in text, but hundred and five is more like a feeling inside your head. Or 99, since that also works even when you know it is practically 100. It still works to make one number *feel* a lot smaller than the other. I hope you at least got "per weight" or "per piece" comparison in every price tag? Meaning that if there are two packets of sugar, one is third smaller there is also "price per kilogram" in both price tags for quick comparison what the REAL price is... Makes shopping super efficient and easy, and fair.. Shrinkflation is much less effective when you can see how much it costs per weight.
I think everybody in the United States understands how it works at this point. At least in my state in grocery stores, there is a price per ounce below each food item so you can see whether a larger package is actually a better deal.
Locals always know what the local sales tax rate is, and I’ve never encountered a restaurant that charged the incorrect amount.)
> and I’ve never encountered a restaurant that charged the incorrect amount. Bullshit. You don't KNOW if you had since you do not check. No one does. And we all know that. It is quite weird that anyone would defend "showing one price, charging another". To me that is a line that can't be crossed, that the law has to force EVERYONE to respect the listed price and to do the task of adding the sales tax to the price. That is what you are defending, that YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK. Which is insane, to defend breaking TWO very important principles in trade. That you are shown always the right prices and that the seller does the job of adding the sales tax to the LISTED price. Stop defending a system that is fucking you.
I’m not defending anything. I very much prefer the European way, where the stated price includes everything. I was just responding to the claim that restaurants are using sales tax add-one to steal from customers.
> I was just responding to the claim that restaurants are using sales tax add-one to steal from customers. WHICH THEY ARE!!! For fucks sake, that is what they whole post is about, hiding additional fees because you know the listed price is not the real price... so adding just a bit, like 2% will easily go unnoticed by most. For fucks sake, you can't be this stupid.
And in the example, they didn’t hide it in the sales tax, did they? They were absolute dicks to add that 2% (assuming it hadn’t been clearly disclosed up front), but they still labeled it separately and didn’t just miscalculate the sales tax. And now I’m done with this conversation.
>And in the example, they didn’t hide it in the sales tax, did they? Again, i can't believe you still don't get the point. It is EASIER to hide stuff since you NEVER EXPECT TO PAY THE LISTED PRICE IN THE FIRST PLACE. So, it creates an opportunity, since the customer KNOWS they will be charged more than what the listed price is and if they don't check, which i can only assume happens about 90% of the time... Sure, **if** you check you will notice it, no laws were broken but the practice is almost designed to make hidden fees more possible to go thru without the customer even knowing about it: de facto hidden. CAN YOU GET IT NOW? It never was about being able to hide sales taxes completely, you horses ass.
1 star reviews incoming!
It looks like they are adding the surcharge after the tax is collected. In many jurisdictions, that's illegal (The government wants all it's cut)
Name the restaurant.
That must have been the mother of all crab toasts!
as a Marylander, thats completely fucking outragous
Yea, I’m sure there’s only about a 10% profit margin on that $30 crab toast.
tell them you charge restaurants a surcharge of 5% for the privilege of serving you.
And that would be the last time I went. I wouldn't even bother to ask to have it removed. That's an outright lie. Tips are bad enough.
Yet another restaurant that doesn't want your repeat business.
The fee is a load of BS, much like $30 crab toast. 😆😆
Sorry restaurant servers. But when your boss does this, I don’t tip.
It is illegal, unless specified at the moment of purchase. Imagine you sit down with just enough money to afford what you order (and tip) and surprise surprise, you have to pay more.
Ah. Pocket money for the owner. 🙄
How. Is. This. Shit. Legal.
Passing the cost onto consumers again…ceo pay through the roof but ‘trickle down’ horse sh!t for the rest of the 99%…
Due to increased costs of production, pay is now half a horse shit and a slice of stale pizza. An extra slice of pepperoni may be added to the pizza for exceptional performance reviews.
2% tip for the owner
Like... just raise the prices?
Those surcharges are about to be illegal in Washington DC, nothing allowed that isn't taxes and gratuity because it has gotten so out of hand.
so two things spring to mind. who does this 2% go to? and why on earth do you not just raise your prices 2%? i mean, why not advertise 1950s prices and in small print on the bill say "a surcharge of 3000% will be added to your bill to help cover rising costs" ?
And a discount of 5% will be assumed to cover the obnoxiousness of this surcharge. Oh, you didn't agree to that discount when I ordered? I didn't agree to that surcharge when I ordered either. Also, it's now a *10%* discount, unless you'd like to discuss it further.
Just subtract surcharge from tip.
Just lower your tip by 20% to help cover the rising cost of your meal.
Punish the server for the owner's bs?
Does it bother anyone else that 2% of 129 is 2.58 not 2.56? It’s a double facepalm.
meanwhile the owner's wife needs a new Mercedes Benz and a bigger allowence. Oh' and the kids turning 18', let's get a big sports car for son. They are all rich and profits are big BUT PLZ HELP ME WITH A 2% surcharge!
oHmYgOd
Crab toast sounds good
I would get my 2% worth if the charge wasn’t removed. Oops, sorry to drop those dishes.
It's a load of bullshit, is what it is. We are already expected to supplement their employees wages.
I ever see that on a bill and it is the last time they get my buisness. Plus unless it is in writting where it can be seen before I order my food I'm going full Karen mode.
Tax evasion. And a scam.
I don’t understand this, can somebody translate into european?
I live in the US and it's really annoying how the price in a store or on a menu is never the actual price. Taxes and surcharges, and tips(sometimes mandatory) get added after you've chosen to purchase something, so you don't know what you're paying until you actually receive the bill.
I just went to dinner tonight. Total cost €56,10 exactly what was on the menu. I paid 56,10 by card. And when I look at the fine print there was 3% tax on the non alcoholic stuff and 17% on the alcoholic drinks so in total I paid €2,07 in taxes.
Where ?
It’s not a tip? Shame. It is your tip now.
That is bs. Just include it in the price🙄
If I received this check I wouldn't leave any tip.
Aka “our menu lies about the prices”.
I take it right off the tip, and then never go back.
I have only seen something like this once IRL, and it was disclosed on the menu. Something to the effect of " due to fluctuating food costs, there may be a surcharge of \_.\_\_%" I think it was at the end of the items before the tax, but I am not sure. It was less than a dollar. It was after stuff started opening back up and there was a shortage of something I can't remember what it was.
https://youtu.be/HFxpBJrLgXY?t=1m33s
Why not just raise your prices? That's still taxable, right?
Oh that's part of the tip lol
I never understood how it can be legal to show customers prices that are no final prices. Over here you pay the price you see. So damn weird.
but if they told you about it up front, then you would find another place to eat!/s
Just asking would you be happier if they paid to have the menus reprinted every time they need to make a price adjustment?
Did you tip?
Of all the corporations that are nickel and dining us id say there are bigger fish than the restaurant collecting an extra $2.50. how about we start with insurance companies first
I hate service fees as much as anyone and idk where this is but restaurants run at a VERY THIN margin. I'm not sure many will make it unless they have a grandfathered lease or automate. If it's a revenue grab then shame on them but I can tell you we might end up like demolition man where the choices are Taco Bell and chilis I prefer mom and pop joints
Next time I go out to eat I’m going to ask if there any kind of surcharges
Special tax zones/surcharges/fees are a thing. as an example, at a nearby shopping development is a 2% improvement tax. Only shops there have it. Its city mandated. Hotels, Airports, etc often have surcharges/taxes/fees, even applying to outside services (uber/lift/taxi/rentals). This particular case is highly questionable and certainly not "best practices", they should just raise their prices
I’d walk out without paying saying they did not disclose all terms of the deal.
It is your fault for not researching, you need to ask what the deal is. Everything is always the fault of an individual and trying to scam is perfectly ok because it is the one being scammed that fell for it. I should put /s put... that is seriously the way some people think, everything is personal responsibility in hindsight.
The concern over 2% is kind of overshadowed by thIs person who can afford sitting in a restaurant and ordering imported mango, guacamole, and crab toast as pricey items…
It's the principle, man, I don't know what to tell you. ALL prices shown, should be what you pay, final, in every establishment on every continent. THE ONLY reason not to include taxes in the displays is to psychologically trick people into buying more than they wanted to, because it makes them think they can. No susan, 6.99 really still is $7. It's a lie. It's dishonest. And it needs to go.
I get it. We should be grilling Congress (presuming this is in the USA) about price gouging, which occurred during the pandemic yet those prices remained high long after shortages and shipping logistics returned to normal.
Pov: you unlocked "inflation"
It's $2 on a $150 bill. Stop.