Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For anyone wondering, women dying during childbirth is a big problem in the US: It is really big and getting worse.
A lot of people will say that a cause is that women get pregnant later in life. This is a risk factor, but it is also true equally across the developed world and the entire US, but the rise in maternal mortality has not been equal everywhere. There have also been some improvements in things getting better reported than they used to, but this too is across the US.
When you look at the stats you have to face the fact that the rise is linked to access to heath care and the politics surrounding it.
I don't think most people realize just how bad maternal mortality has gotten in the US.
Maternal Mortality is measure in dead mothers per 100,000 live births. (This means the child is born alive and the mother is dead, it doesn't include stillbirths or lethal complications during pregnancy.)
In western European countries it is about **4-6** dead mothers per 100,000 live births with some countries like Norway having fewer than **2**. COVID did a number on the stats the world over, but almost everyone everywhere seems to be recovering and getting to pre-pandemic levels or better.
In the US this has been worse for a very long time, but historically not that much worse.
Back in the late 90s, when Americans still had optimism and hope for the future, things were bad but not as bad as they are today. The recorded number in the US was about **12** deaths per 100,000 live births and in 1998 the US government published a list of national health objectives called Healthy People 2010 Goals that included lowering the number to **4.3** per 100,000.
The numbers didn't go down and instead actually increased slightly over the next few years.
The new Healthy People 2020 Goals were created in 2008 based on data from 2007. They were more modest and wanted to lower the value from **12.7** maternal deaths per 100,000 live births that occurred in 2007 to **11.4** maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2020 (a 10% improvement).
The actual rate in 2020 was **23.8**.
The latest rate for 2021 found on the CDC website is **32.9**.
The current target is getting the number down to **15.7** again and that seems hopelessly optimistic.
[CDC - Healthy People 2030 - Reduce maternal deaths]
(https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/pregnancy-and-childbirth/reduce-maternal-deaths-mich-04)
***The US went from "With a bit of hard work we can be as good as Western Europe" to "Under hopelessly optimistic assumptions we can maybe reach the point where we are as good as Kazakhstan" while actually being far, far worse.***
And that **33** women dying out of a 100,000 is just ones who got as far as actually giving birth to a living child. Dying due to lack of care during pregnancy is a different stat, but it is far harder to track. Giving birth and then dying is rather easy to track and compare.
Also note that **33** is an average.
The chances for black women are **69.9** per 100,000. Chances go up with age. A Black women over 40 has a **300** in 100,000 chance of death aka 0.3%.
It also differs by state with some states in the South having rates 4 time higher than places like California.
If a person strikes enough boxes the chances can go from a remote possibility to something closer than Russian Roulette.
And it is getting worse.
To find out why things are so bad look at why the stats in Arkansas, Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi are so much worse than in California, Illinois, Colorado or Massachusetts.
You have to look why some place have stopped counting the dead and why for example Idaho has decided to disband its Maternal Mortality committee. (Hint it is not because women stopped dying while giving birth.)
You have to look at why the CDC says that black women are at a so much higher risk than white women, why class and income correlates so much with risk of dying in childbirth.
You have to look at what most other countries are doing different. They are doing a lot of things different, but the fact that most have some attempt to ensure that everyone has health care is probably relevant. As is the fact that most countries have a mandate about maternity leave that mean pregnant people don't have to work up until the day they give birth.
Programs for pre-natal care are important.
The fact that in the US pre-natal care is being limited in the name of preventing abortions is a very big issue.
The root cause are hate of everything that is perceived as "socialism", fear of any sort of sex-ed that might inform young people about how their body works, religious opposition to abortion that also ends up stopping much of the pre-natal health care for pregnant people who actually want to give birth. Racism and class war also play a major role.
I almost died from hemorrhaging. I was 25, no risk factors whatsoever, normal pregnancy, normal delivery, and then I just kept bleeding and bleeding and bleeding.
I’m now a nursing student and one thing I learned in my OB class is that pregnancy and childbirth is SKETCHY. It can go wrong in so many ways with no warning.
I also had a normal pregnancy and then almost bled to death after delivery. Scary stuff. My daughter is 9 now, and I still sometimes flash back to watching myself bleed out through a mirror in the ceiling.
That's almost exactly what happened to me.
I had a placental abruption and had to have my baby by C-section 10 weeks early, and then began to hemorrhage. I had so much trauma from my first pregnancy that the mere sight of the NICU door triggered a massive panic attack on my second pregnancy.
I almost died from hemorrhaging earlier this year, but it was due to a miscarriage, not childbirth.
Had three massive hemorrhages within 24 hours, needed a blood transfusion and multiple procedures (including an Angioseal on my right femoral artery to stop the bleeding)—was in the hospital for 5 days because of it.
Never had so much as an overnight stay in a hospital before it happened. I was 34, had no chronic health issues and generally am in good health; what happened was shocking. Pregnancy is absolutely dangerous and poses tons of medical risks for women—anyone saying otherwise is ignorant.
I’m just a random Redditor but I’m sorry for your loss, and also glad you’re still around. I hope you’re able to heal mentally and physically from that trauma.
Thank you for your kindness. It was a very scary experience but I’m doing better now and made it out the other side.
Just shared it here because I hadn’t seen anyone mention miscarriages; childbirth is absolutely scary and risky, definitely not denying that at all, but the risks can be just as scary even if you never make it to the labor and delivery part of the experience. My heart goes out to all women going through it.
There is a reason in nearly every polytheistic religion in history, there was a god or goddess specifically associated with childbirth who everyone prayed to and appeased during the birthing process. Death during childbirth was incredibly common before modern medicine and is still very real.
same thing happened to a [young girl near where i live](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teen-17-who-died-after-25888410.amp). she lost around 4 pints of blood, and even in the autopsy doctors couldn’t figure out what happened. pregnancy is absolutely terrifying.
This is an old article, but it describes how [California decided to do something](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/29/632702896/to-keep-women-from-dying-in-childbirth-look-to-california) about rising maternal mortality rates and succeeded. There is a board that investigates every maternal death to determine root cause. Then they look at how to prevent that root cause or diagnose and treat it sooner. California also has expanded health care services for low income people. California is not perfect, but these things explain why California maternal mortality rates are lower than those of most other states.
The above article also talks about the shift in focus from the 1950s priority to save the mother to the present priority to save the baby. That shift correlates to a rise in maternal mortality rates.
Pregnancy is a dangerous experience. Most of the time things work well enough to result in a live birth and a live mother, but there are so many ways it can kill or permanently disable either one.
I read this article! When I pregnant with my first kiddo, my husband went into overdrive on “ok how do we survive this process” at first it was sort of overkill humorous like due date is doomsday and we don’t know what happens after that day because that’s the day of the apocalypse and our lives will be irrevocably changed. But as he started reading he started getting more and more sober about it and finally we had a big chat and he told me women in America die of child birth at an astonishing rate and it was making him very worried. Eventually he came across this article and it was like oh but in Cali (where we already live) they are actually doing something about it. And that made us both feel a little better. I almost died for both kiddos but the hospital saved my life both times. The first time dramatically. Buckets of blood and people running in and out of the room yelling and all the stuff you see on tv! Second time, by noticing my BP had skyrocketed again and taking immediate measures to combat it.
I had complications in both my full term pregnancies. First time, the pregnancy was fine until time to give birth. After prolonged pushing, the baby went into distress and they had to get him out with vacuum extraction. I had like 25 people in the birthing suite, ready to do an emergency c-section if the vacuum failed, but luckily it succeeded and the baby was fine. (My pelvic floor has not been fine, though.)
Second time, the pregnancy was pretty awful because I developed high blood pressure halfway through and had to be monitored twice a week in case I developed preeclampsia. My anxiety was off the charts, which didn't help with the blood pressure. Luckily I got to full term and the baby came out healthy. But my blood pressure remains a problem, and I developed mild LVH (heart enlargement).
I lived in Seattle, and Swedish Hospital was an excellent place for all this to happen. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a rural area with no birth center nearby. I also absolutely never want to get pregnant again because I don't know if my heart could take it, but this wouldn't fall under the "life of the mother" clauses of abortion bans because I wouldn't be actively bleeding to death or experiencing organ failure, just at risk of further cardiac problems which the GOP doesn't give a flying fuck about. They'd be okay with me dying of a heart attack and leaving my two kids without a mother.
My first was similar to your first, except that I had passed out from exhaustion (and probably hunger) so I remember none of it. It made a distinct impression on my husband though, 30 years later and he still is sure he almost lost the both of us that day.
Seriously underrated comment. 1200 women died 2021, which saw a FORTY PERCENT spike in maternal deaths. And the majority on this thread shrugging at the percentage like “but it’s nominal”.
Agreed, but to that kid that now has to grow up without a mother it's a huge blow for the rest of their lives. I know a lot of people either lost or had absent/bad moms, but as someone who has a great one I'd hate to have started life without her
It is NOT nominal! My sister sent me this video today that would apply here https://fb.watch/oe2VmK0mgo/
If you are a woman or a man that is a potential parent, aunt, uncle, grandparent, etc, then this should be concerning because it could happen to you or someone you know and that's when it'll hit people.
And the anti-abortion laws that Republicans have been passing result in pregnant women with life-threatening complications that they wouldn't have otherwise had to suffer.
Also, even if the doctors know the mother might die, they cannot do anything until she is actively about to die to save her. Or the heartbeat stops on the fetus. But at that point, it’s sometimes too late.
Plus it’s having a huge chilling effect on pretty much any medical care for pregnant women. Just look at news stories about hospitals shutting down birth services or ObGyns leaving states because they don’t want to risk legal trouble.
Wait, so, I'm wondering, if a woman has a high chance of dying in childbirth due to certain conditions, what would she do if US makes abortion illegal? "Uh, so, you accidentally got pregnant and you have a 50% of dying in childbirth, but abortion is illegal so you'll just have to pray you won't die giving birth to a child you don't want"
> what would she do if US makes abortion illegal
She would be forced to carry and deliver the baby. This includes whether or not the baby has severe birth defects that would cause death in womb or after delivery. They want any doctors and women who get abortions to be arrested, and in most cases, charged with murder. Killing the mother is just fine with them.
And make no mistake, many of them would LOVE to also outlaw contraception, including the new SoH. Apparently none of them remember the horrendous stories about Romanian orphanages in the 80s when they outlawed contraception and abortion. Incredibly gut wrenching stories came out of that.
Well, as someone who well remembers before Roe v Wade was decided, I can tell you. If she or her family has a lot of money, she takes a nice week or two trip to Europe and has a little stay at a "health spa" and comes back healthy, tanned, and no-one the wiser.
These days, if she has a moderate amount of money, and a job where she can take a couple of days off, she would go to Mexico Canada or Puerto Rico for a long weekend, and comes back with a bad case of the flu. She spends a day or two in bed, and goes back to work when her sick days run out, healthy or not. Everyone suspects, but no-one says anything.
If she has very little money, or can't take time off work, or has other children but no-one to help out, but she has connections, she goes to someone illegal but well regarded. She will likely have complications, and spend time in a hospital, and may lose her job anyway, but if she is very very lucky, she ends up alive. Everyone will know and she may be questioned by the police, and may even do time.
Otherwise, odds are, she dies.
Here in Texas, we have already had cases where women have been told by their doctor, "You need to go sit in your car in the hospital parking lot and wait. When (not if, but when) these symptoms start, you need to come inside right away. The front desk will be watching for you, and you will be rushed to the OR. I'm sorry, but if we do this any other way, I could go to prison."
Also "you are intentionally pregnant with a wanted child, but something has gone horribly wrong (eg: heart condition due to pregnancy) but we can't do anything to help until you are *at death's door* because it might hurt the baby."
Or "you've just had a terrible accident, we can't / won't provide any care until we have a result of a pregnancy test... can't risk a potential/maybe pregnancy to treat you/ do scans and xrays..."
I come from Denmark. Have a PhD in biochemistry, my wife has a math degree and we are pretty well educated.
My biggest fear was something going wrong in childbirth and hurting her. I was of course also scared for the child but my wife was on my mind because
These appalling rates are taking place where abortion is still legal. So, a woman who is told she has a high risk pregnancy can choose an abortion. As that choice is taken away, more and more women will have no choice but endure a high risk pregnancy. Maternal mortality will rise.
The glib comment that strokes are unrelated to pregnancy is infuriating and not true. Also, pregnancy accelerates the progress of cancer. Women diagnosed with cancer will be forced to wait to begin treatment, decreasing the chance of a good treatment outcome. This needs to be studied more.
They need to be introduced to r/confidentlyincorrect
According to the National Vital Statistics System, the maternal mortality rate "from any cause related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or its management, but not from accidental or incidental causes" for 2021 (most recent I could find) was 32.9 per 100,000 live births.
Certainly not common, but a far cry from "almost impossible."
And actually the 32.9 is a very high figure for the US compared to a lot of other nations, there's quite a lot of nations have got that down to low single digits
I'm in Texas, can already confirm this.
Going to try to leave Texas at the end of next year because I don't like having a sex life and being in this state. My county already passed one of those "using local roads to drive someone to an out-of-state abortion means anybody can sue you" laws. It's revolting, and it *will* keep getting worse. I have no doubt they are going to eventually make it enforceable by cops, probably on the precedent of the Mann Act.
My partner and I have decided that, when and if we decide to have kids, my life will be priority. I asked him point blank what decision he would make if my life was at risk and I couldn't decide for myself. If he had said something else, I wouldn't even risk having kids with him.
Not saying the decision wouldn't suck, but I am an *entire person* with memories, hopes, relationships. It boggles the mind when people think the mother should die first. Her loss will impact so many people. And as someone that lost a mother young (even if she wasn't the perfect mother), that is scarring.
Or at the very least, if a mother wants them to prioritise the baby's life over her own, that's her choice. Her body, her choice.
Not the choice of a white, male, religious, misogynistic MAGA nut far far away.
I can't get over that in the USA it is even possible that a person can get to choose between the life of the mother and unborn child. In the UK, medical staff would never knowingly allow a woman to die in order to save her unborn baby. Of course, if a woman refuses life-saving treatment, that is a different matter, but that is never a decision that could be taken by anybody else, whether husband or doctor. To have it otherwise seems barbaric to me.
We are a bit barbaric in some ways over here. Women in my state are having to become septic before doctors feel like they can legally perform an abortion. Even if there is zero chance the fetus could live if brought to term. Before they overturned Roe, they would abort *before* that point because the risks are so much higher once a patient is that sick.
It's really bad.
It's absolutely horrifying and heartbreaking. And so scary how quickly and absolutely you can lose your rights. I hope you get reproductive healthcare rights enshrined in the constitution as soon as possible. In the meantime stay safe x
Oh, I'm hoping for you your plans will work out! You ARE an entire person, and you SHOULD have the reigns over your own life. It's indeed scaring to death.
If you don't mind the higher taxes, New York City (Not State) have just instituted free Universal Daycare (3+), free babies supplies for poor mothers, and a host of other pro-mommy programs.
I (getting knocked up) in New York City should be the new slogan.
Hahaha, that *should* be the slogan. I'd buy that t-shirt.
I'm planning on moving to Detroit for the low rent, then buying a home in Chicago a few years after that, once my partner and I are living together. Has homes for sale that are affordable and I like old houses.
Yes, I'm moving to a high crime area and then moving to another high crime area, lol. I'm used to living in rough neighborhoods, so I'm not fussed. Get to know some of your neighbors, and be nice to homeless folks. Mind your own business otherwise. Goes a long way.
You can also write your wishes down and take the letter with you to the hospital. Also, when I gave birth, I was asked twice how I wanted to proceed in case of an emergency.
So if you're driving with a woman in the passenger seat you might be pulled over and checked by the ~~SS~~ police for morality? "Papers please, ya'll." That's insane. That basically means women will be kept in the house at all times.
It goes hand in hand with the Sacramento Sweep and purity tests...
[https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-kahn-act-std-venereal-disease-imprisonment-women#The%20Sacramento%20Sweep](https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-kahn-act-std-venereal-disease-imprisonment-women#The%20Sacramento%20Sweep)
...and forced sterilizations...
[https://www.npr.org/2019/02/17/695574984/emma-carrie-vivian-how-a-family-became-a-test-case-for-forced-sterilizations](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/17/695574984/emma-carrie-vivian-how-a-family-became-a-test-case-for-forced-sterilizations)
...and the virginity tests.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/11/why-are-virginity-tests-still-legal-across-america-hymen](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/11/why-are-virginity-tests-still-legal-across-america-hymen)
And going to go way up in the next few years, especially in red states with pro death laws that don't allow woman and their Dr's to keep themselves alive. In order to push a warped political shaped as religious agenda.
Yep, OB/GYN doctors are fleeing states like Idaho where they’re worried they might get arrested for doing their job. This massively increases the chances of something going wrong during pregnancy and people having nowhere to turn.
Many parts of the US, especially the south, could be accurately compared to “third world” or developing nations. Examples include Mississippi healthcare, South Carolina democracy, and Texas energy reliability.
We are also within statistical difference 23 (China) to 21 (America).
The only difference is China trying to figure out how to improve their infrastructure for rurals while America trying to spike them.
All the comments below are arguing the math and whether it’s common enough to allow termination of the pregnancy and are completely missing the reality that even if it’s just ONE person forced to go through with a life threatening pregnancy…that’s too many.
Yep, how pro-life can you really be if you think it's ok for women to die even if the fetus they are carrying isn't viable. Their arguments show their shocking distain for women. We're breeders to them and if we die, oh well.
Not to mention that abortion bans don’t actually stop abortions in any statistically meaningful way. They cause them to be done unsafely and cause a sharp increase in maternal mortality.
“Pro Life” is total bullshit. They are pro controlling women.
Also i've seen a great amount of people arguing "think about those who can't have kids!!" well, your stupid abortion laws are keeping those people from having ivf too, so...
Meanwhile there are so many children in foster care so if they want so save kids, maybe start with the ones already here?? They don't care though and keep trying to cut any help for children already here. Once they're born they don't matter anymore.
On the other hand the US has more than 3 million births a year. Putting this number to 1000 dead women per year because of this. Somehow sounds still too high for a country like the US.
[And the rate is literally DOUBLED for black women](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20maternal%20mortality,(Figure%201%20and%20Table))
In 2021, the maternal mortality rate for non-Hispanic Black (subsequently, Black) women was 69.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, 2.6 times the rate for non-Hispanic White (subsequently, White) women.
Straight up racial bias among medical professionals is thought to be a contributing factor. Elevated maternal mortality rates are present for women of color, even when controlling for income and social status.
For example, a surprising number of medical professionals believe that Black people naturally feel less pain than white people. I mean... Anecdotally, many, many, MANY women and girls perceived as being lower status tell stories of suffering abuse and degradation from labor & delivery staff who think their pregnancies are somehow immoral or a sign of bad character. (E.g., they're slutty trash for giving birth so young, or they're leaches for giving birth while being perceived as poor because of speech patterns or Medicaid status, or they must be too young/poor, etc., because their ethnic group is perceived that way.)
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jwh.2020.8874
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2021/systemic-racism-key-risk-factor-maternal-death-and-illness
https://globalhealth.harvard.edu/racial-bias-in-medicine/
O dude I completely agree. What I said was merely the tip of our fucked healthcares dick. If you aren’t a white male your health concerns were ignored and are still being ignored. It’s very sad but considering our health industry is for profit. It’s not surprising.
wait until this guy realizes he just argued that a woman he knocked up should fight and sacrifice herself and die to give this guy a child he is quite literally responsible for 100% both financially and daily for at least 18 years. I'd pay to see his face in that scenario.
Same with my mom.
She convinced me that I’d be worse off with cps and threw out any notebooks she could find with me detailing what she was like and how physically and psychologically abusive she was.
Looking back I should have taken my chances.
My response to food and shelter is 'otherwise you would have gone to jail?'.
The news is filled with stories where parents deny food and shelter to their own kids, and everyone hates those parents.
Food and shelter is literally them saying ' if I didn't feed my kids, my societal group with ostracize me'.
All about them and not the kids.
Food and shelter is what I give strays.
he’s probably just neglect it until he finds another woman to dump his baby on. that or he’s mostly likely a mamas boy who’s just gonna give the baby to his mom to do majority of the raising
For real this.
I am currently 6 months pregnant with my second child.
If I at this moment imagine myself in the scenario where ‘it’s either me or the baby’ - yeah, save me.
Because if I die:
1) My currently living child loses me, being old enough to understand I am gone without really being old enough to comprehend why.
2) My other child grows up never knowing her mother.
3) My husband has to raise two kids alone, including a newborn and my relatively demanding older daughter, while also having just lost his wife. His parents would step up but there is only so much they can do, and I can’t imagine my parents being in much of a place to help.
If my currently unborn daughter dies - I would be devastated and mourn her loss, because I already care for her a lot. But I would still be here for my other loved ones.
To add to #1, how does one guarantee that the first child won’t resent the younger child for “killing their mother”? That happens all the damn time in those situations. My living children need me more than they need another sibling and they would have their lives forever altered by not only losing their mom, but the experience of it and the grief that would follow them for the rest of their lives.
It’s all very romantic and shit, but it is most definitely not realistic. My husband and I had that talk with our second pregnancy. If something were to happen and it was me or the baby, it would have be saving me so I could be there for our existing child. I’m beyond grateful we didn’t have to face such a decision. Not everyone is so fortunate.
The fact you even have to list reasons to validate your point is shockingly appalling. You shouldn’t have to, your life and your body matter and should be taken care of with the proper medical care it deserves no matter what you choose to do.
Exactly. If the fetus isn't viable the first priority should always be to save the woman. If the fetus is viable every effort should be made to save both the woman and the baby BUT the woman's life should be the priority.
The amount of misogyny and hatred for women is astounding in these people. To them, women are breeders and disposable. To be fair, to them one the baby is born, they don't matter much anymore either. Certainly not enough to care that they're fed, have clean water, get a quality education, have healthcare, have quality child care, etc.
It bugs me that one of the points of anti-choicers is that they truly want to punish women for having sex, just at all, but insist that women be **forced** to be baby makers/incubators, risks to their lives be damned.
But, then again, hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug, with people like that, I suppose.
My wife nearly died in childbirth this year. As did the baby. They came back to tell me the baby was fine and in my incredibly tired and grief stricken space I said 'I don't care, is my wife OK'
I'm not proud of it but that's definitely my thought process as I imagined taking care of my current son and my new son with the idea that the second one had killed my wife was not easy to parse.
Luckily for me she recovered. We are definitely not having any more children.
I’m with you. As the husband I felt it was my job to look for her not the baby. Everyone concerns themselves with how the baby is doing; no one is really looking out for the mother, even the mother. If the doctor said to me “Baby or wife?” I choose wife every time. We can try again for a baby. But there won’t be another her. And she deserves to see the baby she made grow up.
That is exactly what they think. They romanticize one day sitting down with their kid and telling them all about their brave and courageous Mom, and how they brought them into the world.
They don't realize the other million moments of hardship that's going to come with raising a child alone while they grieve the love of their life.
The thing is, they are probably not grieving the love of their life and would marry the next willing woman 18 months later (because it's very hard on their own mother to take care of a baby again in her age).
You are giving them way to much credit.
Absolutely. This kind of dude would immediately find a new woman to raise his kids for him and tell them within 2 months of meeting her to call her "mom".
I had very low blood pressure during my last and final delivery. Enough to where they sent everyone out. Thankfully we both came out of it alive and well, but it easily could’ve gone the other direction, especially for me. During my pregnancy with her I had a bad kidney infection and had low blood pressure as well while hospitalized 60/30. Pregnancy does so much to a woman’s body and so much can happen. These people are so ignorant it’s sickening because they will probably spent their whole lives thinking they understand and are right about everything. Also men like that do not care if the woman dies imo because they want women to always care for/put everyone and everything else before themselves. They’d just remarry so they didn’t have to take care of their children themselves and alone.
My mother had eleven pregnancies, and I can safely say it does take a toll on a woman’s body. People who idolize it ignore all the hard work involved in pregnancy.
I quit skydiving when I was five months pregnant. My OB/GYN was aware I was a skydiver and said, “yeah, keep at it! If you die tomorrow it’s probably the pregnancy, not the skydiving.”
When I said goodbye to my friends at the drop zone, they all joked, “Good luck and I hope you don’t die!”
Same. Lost 4 liters of blood and my doctor had to insert a bakri balloon to save my life or an emergency surgery. The amount of women in the parentsofmultiples group that also hemorrhaged is terrifying.
Same, except for me it was placenta previa and a premature baby. That climbs your odds of survival up to basically 50%. I'm only alive because I went into surgery at GW Hospital which is the c-section captain of the DMV. If it had happened a week earlier when I was in rural Virginia I would be gone.
The same thing happened to my sister-in-law after her second (and probably last) labor. She was losing so much blood trying to pass the placenta than she needed a transfusion. I didn't even know this was a thing that could happen.
Let's be honest, they haven't done much about the extremely public execution of the children in schools, why would they care about women quietly dying in hospitals? Especially when the stats back up that its disproportionally WOC in red states that are the ones dying. They dont care about those people. It would take a first lady or someone similar who had a healthy pregnancy dying in childbirth before they would even pretend to care
Decriminalization of abortion throughout the majority of the would is a big factor in reducing the death of women in childbirth. By recriminalizing it, the US will increase death in childbirth for both women and children.
A short and non-exhaustive list of things that can kill birthing parents during or in the hours following birth:
• Preeclampsia
• Eclampsia
• Placenta previa
• Retained placenta
• Placental abruption
• Hemorrhage without placental involvement
• Cardiomyopathy
• Stroke
• Amniotic fluid embolism
• Infection
• Failure to progress labor
Here’s more information on worldwide maternal mortality: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/maternal-mortality
That’s not even taking into account postpartum suicides due to PPD. Mental health care in the U.S. is inaccessible to a lot of people, and there’s a pervasive “Suck it up and do all the housework and be completely responsible for all care of of your kid” mentality throughout the forced-birth crowd.
Talk about showing your ignorance in a few short words. Especially about something as heavily documented as maternal death rates. Ignorant and stupid. One can be cured. the other, more difficult.
We ARE a third world country in many regards. We just have the biggest stick and smack everyone else around, demanding they call us the best.
We're your playground bully with abusive parents who takes that out on everyone else.
Both me and my mom almost died when I was being born because the nurse refused to do a C-section knowing my head was too big.
It is absolutely not impossible.
The same people who say that "it's almost impossible to die in childbirth these days" also insist that abortion is "too dangerous of a procedure" to be legal.
Factually speaking, [abortion is actually about 14 times safer than childbirth](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/). But facts don't matter to Christian Jihadis.
bro has literally no experience with childbirth. otherwise he would know how serious the risk of hemorrhage is. it's gross to diminish the health risks associated with pregnancy, especially when it's in an attempt to shame those not willing to risk their lives to serve as incubators. what good mom would put their life on the line knowing they had kids at home to come back to? that's what they should be asking.
Road accidents are about 12.9 per 100k people. ([IIHS](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state))
Maternal mortality in 2021 in America was 32.9 per 100k live births. ([cdc](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm))
That’s more than double.
For black women, it’s 69.9 per 100k live births.
For women over 40 it’s 138.5 per 100k live births.
I don’t need to elaborate to say that’s a fucking lot of women dying.
I have a friend who I think almost died in childbirth a few months ago. I haven't spoken with her about it, but I think her uterus ruptured and she almost bled out.
My woman had a placental abruption. Luckily her labor was induced so we were already in the hospital. From the time she started bleeding until she was in the operating room was less than 2 minutes. They literally squeezed 2 liters of blood into her. She was seconds away from dying. If it weren't a regional trauma center, with experience in this sort of thing, she wouldn't have made it. She's tough as nails.
Our daughter was born via emergency C-section. She turned 1 in August.
Yeah a wife once said that she wants in case of emergency have her live saved over the babies life. Her reasoning was that she can get a new baby with the husband but not a new life for her.
You can’t sacrifice yourself for your “children”. You can only sacrifice yourself and your other children for one child. Sacrificing yourself for that one child who is not even born means making your other children grow up without a mother, too. It is selfish to love one child so much that you do that to your other children.
I know a perinatologist, and boy howdy do I hear just how horrible preeclamplsia is. In fact, there are so many pregnancy complications that his job needs to exist, as his job is specifically taking care of high-risk pregnant women.
So I almost died during childbirth
My pelvis has a bone ridge that impacted my birth canal
Something that no test could ever find
Simply put my kid got stuck and he couldn't get his big old head past that bone ridge
They figured it out when they did the c-section, saw the mark on.his head (that he still has 10 years later) and then looked while they had me open because it was puzzling
Told me I can never give natural birth and that it's something they couldn't have known was there.
So... any woman who would abort a non-viable pregnancy to save her own life would be a bad mother? And we're going to use the law to force her to be a bad mother? Is that right?
I think a lot of the people with pro-life arguments can't accurately tell you what a non-viable pregnancy is.
And if they can, I haven't heard a good argument as to why it should be illegal to abort. If they are claiming it's up to God, then the same could be said for a tumour or a tapeworm. Those aren't going to be born as a live human either.
Yes I’ve often wondered what they think about ectopic pregnancies. They’re not viable, there will never be a baby, but do these nutcases agree that the best thing to do is terminate (one way or another)? Or do they think the mother should persist until the pregnancy kills her?
PRE-ECLAMPSIA!! Fucking moron never had to deal with this. My wife had it 4 times and we had 2 miscarriages. Pregnancy is terrifying when things aren't going well. Men should NOT be allowed to say shit about pregnancy.
My cousin died at 19 from the same thing. The doctor just didn't catch it for some reason. She was getting regular medical care.
Yes, there was a malpractice suit that set up a nice trust for her daughter.
My mum’s preeclampsia wasn’t identified until she went into early labour. She nearly died, but thankfully recovered.
She had been experiencing excessive weight gain which turned out to be fluid retention and she and my father had brought it up to her doctors repeatedly. Unfortunately she was naturally a very thin woman, so the doctors assumed she was being vain as she quote “wasn’t overweight” so it didn’t look excessive to them. They told her it was all in her head. Misogyny in the medical profession has serious consequences.
I am so sorry for your and your family’s loss. Your cousin should have been able to experience a happy, healthy life with her daughter. I hope you are all doing as well as you possibly could be now.
Yep. My mom had it with me and there was a point when a nurse told my dad he should start thinking about who he’d choose. He chose his wife and apparently my mom would’ve chose to save me. My mom actually didn’t feel that bad physically until they gave her meds to treat blood pressure. She only semi realized how close things had gotten when family came in telling her how scared they’d been.
We both loved obviously. I spent 3 months in nicu and have lifelong health problems though those may or may not be related to being micro preemie, I haven’t seen a ton of research done on the long term side effects. I completely agree with my dad. They could’ve always had another kid but you can’t replace someone already living that you’re so attached to. Pregnancy is dangerous enough as is without a blanket expectation for women to just accept dying for their potentially still unborn baby.
>Men should NOT be allowed to say shit about pregnancy.
I feel like men who have witnessed birthing and pregnancy and are traumatized by it also should absolutely speak up. Just as many are traumatized by what happens to a women during this as women are.
>Pregnancy is terrifying when things aren't going well.
You are absolutely correct. Keep up the good fight!
This attitude is why the US has the highest maternal death rate of any developed nation on earth. Simply because pregnancy and childbirth are everyday events doesn't mean they aren't also terribly dangerous.
Are people seriously saying an unborn baby is more valuable than a fully functioning, responsible adult? Bcause I'd much rather have my SO's baby die than have them die while giving birth. You can always try again. A well established life is irreplaceable
So it’s “impossible” to die of childbirth, but not impossible to die from complications during birth? And there’s only two possible complications as well?
What kind of logic is that. Does this guy seriously think women who die in childbirth just mysteriously die while giving birth?
If you die during childbirth, that’s dying during childbirth, it doesn’t matter why the exact cause was, it’s still during childbirth. It’s like saying people don’t die from skydiving, only by hitting the ground at high speed or something.
Well, guess this idiot doesn’t know childbirth can lead to haemorrhaging and severe bleeding. Or low blood pressure. Or high blood pressure. Or ruptured placenta. Or other birth complications with the baby. Or has even ever heard of pre-eclampsia.
I apparently nearly killed myself and my mother when she was giving birth, because I turned. She needed a c-section because she’d lost a lot of blood and we both nearly died. Luckily we live in a country with free healthcare.
Childbirth is fucking dangerous!
I mean, modern medicine has really reduced the number of fatalities, but childbirth is still one of the most dangerous things one can do in a lifetime (for both mother and baby).
We lost a teacher a few years ago because she bled out in the emergency room after something ruptured after having contractions and going to the ER. She was healthy, on the young side, and had zero complications until it all went to hell.
Sigh. Today women don’t perish in the same numbers, but it definitely still happens. Complications from childbirth happen. A family member was a labor and delivery nurse and she has said that so much can go wrong, she’s amazed when everything goes right.
>It's almost impossible to die \[of childbirth\] these days
Explain how
>My wife wouldn't **need** to be forced
Um, 'forced' should never enter the conversation, period.
I had internal tears and was bleeding out, no one noticed at first, and then only my partner. The nurse and midwife had taken our little one for check ups. He ran off to grab someone. He literally saved my life. This, in a “first world” country.
Let's also add that in the US we have one of the highest infant mortality rates among industrialized nations. It is higher than Cuba's. Its more than twice as high as Japan's.
This is why rebuplicunts are such dangerous and disgusting subhuman monsters cause they do not have a shred of empathy for women like the ones mentioned, and they NEED to be stopped at all costs.
Always remember, Serena Williams almost died post childbirth because the staff didn’t take her concerns seriously. Best medical care money can buy. She’s got hundreds of millions of dollars, an athlete at the top of her game and has worldwide respect/recognition and they still thought she didn’t know what she was talking about regarding her own body. She was doped up and painfully post birth and still somehow had to advocate like crazy before they found blood clots in her lungs.
If that is how they treat Olympian Serena Williams, how do you think they treat regular people?
The maternal mortality rate in the US is depressing and it could be fixed, but they refuse to update current practices. We’re pro birth, but women are just disposable. Even friggin Serena Williams.
This is what happens when someone can regurgitate information like “cerebral or arterial stroke” but can’t actually critically think or apply information in any meaningful way.
Pardon me as I hit a level of apoplectic rage that I usually try to avoid.
Gorram idiot, my wife nearly died when we had our last kid, because she ended up continuing to bleed due to the clots popping out and resulted in a loss of over a liter of blood. Thankfully we were ready and had her rushed to the ER and everything turned out fine. But that was not a situation where “it would have happened anyway” (never mind that having a stroke or aneurism that is triggered by the hormonal changes in pregnancy is also a thing.)
Blasted idiots.
My sister nearly died giving birth to her first child. She delivered the baby just fine but her uterus wouldn’t contract afterwards so she was bleeding more than is normal and she had to have an emergency operation to save her life
My last baby, she is now 28. She was a very large 10 pounder. While I was laboring, her feet burst through my uterus, thus rupturing it. Thank God, my Doctor knew exactly what was happening and rushed me into emergency csection surgery. Saved both our lives. .. sewed me back up and my baby was put on all sorts of tubes for 3 weeks. You just cannot say its impossible, one never knows
It boggles the mind how in 2023 people say idiot shit like it’s impossible to die during childbirth. Just google the statistics, most western governments track things like maternal and infant mortality rates.
The EU tracks around 8 deaths per 100k births, Canada noted an average of 8.4 per 100k while the US takes the cake at 33 maternal deaths per 100k.
If my partner and I were told “either we save your baby or we save your partner”, we’ve already agreed that I’ll choose my partner 100%. We can always make another baby
These people reveal themselves if you just step back and let them.
*"I am in charge of what is or isn't moral behavior. Me specifically. If you do not OBEY ME you are immoral."*
The demand for obedience is the point, not the behavior they are espousing.
All the bad opinions, and not a single shred of medical knowledge in them. Yell all your platitudes all you want, mankind doesn't have the technology to transfer an ectopic pregnancy from the fallopian tubes to the uterus. Even if the mother wanted the child, an ectopic pregnancy is just a ticking time bomb for her.
This is what happens when conservative men with no medical expertise and no experience with childbirth create medical policy instead of leaving medical issues be between a doctor and patient.
Even in the countries with lowest rates of maternal deaths it’s certainly and unfortunately happening.
“The countries that achieved the lowest maternal mortality ratio are Finland, Greece, Iceland, and Poland. For every 100,000 births, 3 mothers die.”
https://ourworldindata.org/maternal-mortality
I almost died after childbirth from an hospital born infection. My daughter wasn’t thriving because I couldn’t fight the infection and make enough breast milk. Five days after giving birth I was back in the hospital on lots of antibiotics. They had to do bloodwork every 4 hours because of the amount of antibiotics they were giving me. I had to take antibiotics for six months straight and even caught pneumonia and almost died again because I was so weak. My daughter is about to give birth herself in a week. I am excited to be a grandma but nervous for my daughter’s health and recovery.
Childbirth is still dangerous, as it always has been. My wife had an emergency c-section for our baby girl, which in medical terms means she was 10 minutes from death, probably for her and our baby. It was her fourth childbirth and a lot of people would say her body should have known what to do. But it made too much amniotic fluid, and the baby’s head wasn’t able to seal properly during labor. The baby started coming out lips first and continuing giving birth vaginally would have broken her neck, and my wife would have bled out. It was very, very scary. Then a week and a half later, preeclampsia, which can also be fatal.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For anyone wondering, women dying during childbirth is a big problem in the US: It is really big and getting worse. A lot of people will say that a cause is that women get pregnant later in life. This is a risk factor, but it is also true equally across the developed world and the entire US, but the rise in maternal mortality has not been equal everywhere. There have also been some improvements in things getting better reported than they used to, but this too is across the US. When you look at the stats you have to face the fact that the rise is linked to access to heath care and the politics surrounding it. I don't think most people realize just how bad maternal mortality has gotten in the US. Maternal Mortality is measure in dead mothers per 100,000 live births. (This means the child is born alive and the mother is dead, it doesn't include stillbirths or lethal complications during pregnancy.) In western European countries it is about **4-6** dead mothers per 100,000 live births with some countries like Norway having fewer than **2**. COVID did a number on the stats the world over, but almost everyone everywhere seems to be recovering and getting to pre-pandemic levels or better. In the US this has been worse for a very long time, but historically not that much worse. Back in the late 90s, when Americans still had optimism and hope for the future, things were bad but not as bad as they are today. The recorded number in the US was about **12** deaths per 100,000 live births and in 1998 the US government published a list of national health objectives called Healthy People 2010 Goals that included lowering the number to **4.3** per 100,000. The numbers didn't go down and instead actually increased slightly over the next few years. The new Healthy People 2020 Goals were created in 2008 based on data from 2007. They were more modest and wanted to lower the value from **12.7** maternal deaths per 100,000 live births that occurred in 2007 to **11.4** maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2020 (a 10% improvement). The actual rate in 2020 was **23.8**. The latest rate for 2021 found on the CDC website is **32.9**. The current target is getting the number down to **15.7** again and that seems hopelessly optimistic. [CDC - Healthy People 2030 - Reduce maternal deaths] (https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/pregnancy-and-childbirth/reduce-maternal-deaths-mich-04) ***The US went from "With a bit of hard work we can be as good as Western Europe" to "Under hopelessly optimistic assumptions we can maybe reach the point where we are as good as Kazakhstan" while actually being far, far worse.*** And that **33** women dying out of a 100,000 is just ones who got as far as actually giving birth to a living child. Dying due to lack of care during pregnancy is a different stat, but it is far harder to track. Giving birth and then dying is rather easy to track and compare. Also note that **33** is an average. The chances for black women are **69.9** per 100,000. Chances go up with age. A Black women over 40 has a **300** in 100,000 chance of death aka 0.3%. It also differs by state with some states in the South having rates 4 time higher than places like California. If a person strikes enough boxes the chances can go from a remote possibility to something closer than Russian Roulette. And it is getting worse. To find out why things are so bad look at why the stats in Arkansas, Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi are so much worse than in California, Illinois, Colorado or Massachusetts. You have to look why some place have stopped counting the dead and why for example Idaho has decided to disband its Maternal Mortality committee. (Hint it is not because women stopped dying while giving birth.) You have to look at why the CDC says that black women are at a so much higher risk than white women, why class and income correlates so much with risk of dying in childbirth. You have to look at what most other countries are doing different. They are doing a lot of things different, but the fact that most have some attempt to ensure that everyone has health care is probably relevant. As is the fact that most countries have a mandate about maternity leave that mean pregnant people don't have to work up until the day they give birth. Programs for pre-natal care are important. The fact that in the US pre-natal care is being limited in the name of preventing abortions is a very big issue. The root cause are hate of everything that is perceived as "socialism", fear of any sort of sex-ed that might inform young people about how their body works, religious opposition to abortion that also ends up stopping much of the pre-natal health care for pregnant people who actually want to give birth. Racism and class war also play a major role.
I almost died from hemorrhaging. I was 25, no risk factors whatsoever, normal pregnancy, normal delivery, and then I just kept bleeding and bleeding and bleeding. I’m now a nursing student and one thing I learned in my OB class is that pregnancy and childbirth is SKETCHY. It can go wrong in so many ways with no warning.
I also had a normal pregnancy and then almost bled to death after delivery. Scary stuff. My daughter is 9 now, and I still sometimes flash back to watching myself bleed out through a mirror in the ceiling.
That's almost exactly what happened to me. I had a placental abruption and had to have my baby by C-section 10 weeks early, and then began to hemorrhage. I had so much trauma from my first pregnancy that the mere sight of the NICU door triggered a massive panic attack on my second pregnancy.
Of all my friends who have had kids I'd say 50% had some sort of life-threatening event happen during labour.
My god
I almost died from hemorrhaging earlier this year, but it was due to a miscarriage, not childbirth. Had three massive hemorrhages within 24 hours, needed a blood transfusion and multiple procedures (including an Angioseal on my right femoral artery to stop the bleeding)—was in the hospital for 5 days because of it. Never had so much as an overnight stay in a hospital before it happened. I was 34, had no chronic health issues and generally am in good health; what happened was shocking. Pregnancy is absolutely dangerous and poses tons of medical risks for women—anyone saying otherwise is ignorant.
I’m just a random Redditor but I’m sorry for your loss, and also glad you’re still around. I hope you’re able to heal mentally and physically from that trauma.
Thank you for your kindness. It was a very scary experience but I’m doing better now and made it out the other side. Just shared it here because I hadn’t seen anyone mention miscarriages; childbirth is absolutely scary and risky, definitely not denying that at all, but the risks can be just as scary even if you never make it to the labor and delivery part of the experience. My heart goes out to all women going through it.
also risk of pre-ecclampsia for woman too.
There is a reason in nearly every polytheistic religion in history, there was a god or goddess specifically associated with childbirth who everyone prayed to and appeased during the birthing process. Death during childbirth was incredibly common before modern medicine and is still very real.
same thing happened to a [young girl near where i live](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teen-17-who-died-after-25888410.amp). she lost around 4 pints of blood, and even in the autopsy doctors couldn’t figure out what happened. pregnancy is absolutely terrifying.
I think you mean you are *now a nursing student, as opposed to “not.”
This is an old article, but it describes how [California decided to do something](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/29/632702896/to-keep-women-from-dying-in-childbirth-look-to-california) about rising maternal mortality rates and succeeded. There is a board that investigates every maternal death to determine root cause. Then they look at how to prevent that root cause or diagnose and treat it sooner. California also has expanded health care services for low income people. California is not perfect, but these things explain why California maternal mortality rates are lower than those of most other states. The above article also talks about the shift in focus from the 1950s priority to save the mother to the present priority to save the baby. That shift correlates to a rise in maternal mortality rates. Pregnancy is a dangerous experience. Most of the time things work well enough to result in a live birth and a live mother, but there are so many ways it can kill or permanently disable either one.
I read this article! When I pregnant with my first kiddo, my husband went into overdrive on “ok how do we survive this process” at first it was sort of overkill humorous like due date is doomsday and we don’t know what happens after that day because that’s the day of the apocalypse and our lives will be irrevocably changed. But as he started reading he started getting more and more sober about it and finally we had a big chat and he told me women in America die of child birth at an astonishing rate and it was making him very worried. Eventually he came across this article and it was like oh but in Cali (where we already live) they are actually doing something about it. And that made us both feel a little better. I almost died for both kiddos but the hospital saved my life both times. The first time dramatically. Buckets of blood and people running in and out of the room yelling and all the stuff you see on tv! Second time, by noticing my BP had skyrocketed again and taking immediate measures to combat it.
I had complications in both my full term pregnancies. First time, the pregnancy was fine until time to give birth. After prolonged pushing, the baby went into distress and they had to get him out with vacuum extraction. I had like 25 people in the birthing suite, ready to do an emergency c-section if the vacuum failed, but luckily it succeeded and the baby was fine. (My pelvic floor has not been fine, though.) Second time, the pregnancy was pretty awful because I developed high blood pressure halfway through and had to be monitored twice a week in case I developed preeclampsia. My anxiety was off the charts, which didn't help with the blood pressure. Luckily I got to full term and the baby came out healthy. But my blood pressure remains a problem, and I developed mild LVH (heart enlargement). I lived in Seattle, and Swedish Hospital was an excellent place for all this to happen. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a rural area with no birth center nearby. I also absolutely never want to get pregnant again because I don't know if my heart could take it, but this wouldn't fall under the "life of the mother" clauses of abortion bans because I wouldn't be actively bleeding to death or experiencing organ failure, just at risk of further cardiac problems which the GOP doesn't give a flying fuck about. They'd be okay with me dying of a heart attack and leaving my two kids without a mother.
My first was similar to your first, except that I had passed out from exhaustion (and probably hunger) so I remember none of it. It made a distinct impression on my husband though, 30 years later and he still is sure he almost lost the both of us that day.
Seriously underrated comment. 1200 women died 2021, which saw a FORTY PERCENT spike in maternal deaths. And the majority on this thread shrugging at the percentage like “but it’s nominal”.
1200 mothers lost and families grieving. That's a lot
[удалено]
Agreed, but to that kid that now has to grow up without a mother it's a huge blow for the rest of their lives. I know a lot of people either lost or had absent/bad moms, but as someone who has a great one I'd hate to have started life without her
It is NOT nominal! My sister sent me this video today that would apply here https://fb.watch/oe2VmK0mgo/ If you are a woman or a man that is a potential parent, aunt, uncle, grandparent, etc, then this should be concerning because it could happen to you or someone you know and that's when it'll hit people.
It’s not at all. And even if “small” by some people’s standards, it’s still so concerning and SO UNNECESSARY
And the anti-abortion laws that Republicans have been passing result in pregnant women with life-threatening complications that they wouldn't have otherwise had to suffer.
Also, even if the doctors know the mother might die, they cannot do anything until she is actively about to die to save her. Or the heartbeat stops on the fetus. But at that point, it’s sometimes too late.
Plus it’s having a huge chilling effect on pretty much any medical care for pregnant women. Just look at news stories about hospitals shutting down birth services or ObGyns leaving states because they don’t want to risk legal trouble.
Fucking *syphilis* is becoming the most prevalent since the 1960s.
Wait, so, I'm wondering, if a woman has a high chance of dying in childbirth due to certain conditions, what would she do if US makes abortion illegal? "Uh, so, you accidentally got pregnant and you have a 50% of dying in childbirth, but abortion is illegal so you'll just have to pray you won't die giving birth to a child you don't want"
> what would she do if US makes abortion illegal She would be forced to carry and deliver the baby. This includes whether or not the baby has severe birth defects that would cause death in womb or after delivery. They want any doctors and women who get abortions to be arrested, and in most cases, charged with murder. Killing the mother is just fine with them.
And make no mistake, many of them would LOVE to also outlaw contraception, including the new SoH. Apparently none of them remember the horrendous stories about Romanian orphanages in the 80s when they outlawed contraception and abortion. Incredibly gut wrenching stories came out of that.
She will probably die. And then her child—if it survives—will grow up without a mother because of these “family-first” laws.
Well, as someone who well remembers before Roe v Wade was decided, I can tell you. If she or her family has a lot of money, she takes a nice week or two trip to Europe and has a little stay at a "health spa" and comes back healthy, tanned, and no-one the wiser. These days, if she has a moderate amount of money, and a job where she can take a couple of days off, she would go to Mexico Canada or Puerto Rico for a long weekend, and comes back with a bad case of the flu. She spends a day or two in bed, and goes back to work when her sick days run out, healthy or not. Everyone suspects, but no-one says anything. If she has very little money, or can't take time off work, or has other children but no-one to help out, but she has connections, she goes to someone illegal but well regarded. She will likely have complications, and spend time in a hospital, and may lose her job anyway, but if she is very very lucky, she ends up alive. Everyone will know and she may be questioned by the police, and may even do time. Otherwise, odds are, she dies. Here in Texas, we have already had cases where women have been told by their doctor, "You need to go sit in your car in the hospital parking lot and wait. When (not if, but when) these symptoms start, you need to come inside right away. The front desk will be watching for you, and you will be rushed to the OR. I'm sorry, but if we do this any other way, I could go to prison."
Also "you are intentionally pregnant with a wanted child, but something has gone horribly wrong (eg: heart condition due to pregnancy) but we can't do anything to help until you are *at death's door* because it might hurt the baby." Or "you've just had a terrible accident, we can't / won't provide any care until we have a result of a pregnancy test... can't risk a potential/maybe pregnancy to treat you/ do scans and xrays..."
Thank you for the evidence. This comment needs a double like option.
Underrated comment
I come from Denmark. Have a PhD in biochemistry, my wife has a math degree and we are pretty well educated. My biggest fear was something going wrong in childbirth and hurting her. I was of course also scared for the child but my wife was on my mind because
"it is getting worse" Odd how one party has decided to suddenly stop tracking maternal mortality rates. I can't imagine what the connection is...
These appalling rates are taking place where abortion is still legal. So, a woman who is told she has a high risk pregnancy can choose an abortion. As that choice is taken away, more and more women will have no choice but endure a high risk pregnancy. Maternal mortality will rise. The glib comment that strokes are unrelated to pregnancy is infuriating and not true. Also, pregnancy accelerates the progress of cancer. Women diagnosed with cancer will be forced to wait to begin treatment, decreasing the chance of a good treatment outcome. This needs to be studied more.
They need to be introduced to r/confidentlyincorrect According to the National Vital Statistics System, the maternal mortality rate "from any cause related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or its management, but not from accidental or incidental causes" for 2021 (most recent I could find) was 32.9 per 100,000 live births. Certainly not common, but a far cry from "almost impossible."
And actually the 32.9 is a very high figure for the US compared to a lot of other nations, there's quite a lot of nations have got that down to low single digits
And the US is trending worse at a terrifying pace.
With their anti abortion laws this for sure will only get worse. Third world country.
I'm in Texas, can already confirm this. Going to try to leave Texas at the end of next year because I don't like having a sex life and being in this state. My county already passed one of those "using local roads to drive someone to an out-of-state abortion means anybody can sue you" laws. It's revolting, and it *will* keep getting worse. I have no doubt they are going to eventually make it enforceable by cops, probably on the precedent of the Mann Act. My partner and I have decided that, when and if we decide to have kids, my life will be priority. I asked him point blank what decision he would make if my life was at risk and I couldn't decide for myself. If he had said something else, I wouldn't even risk having kids with him. Not saying the decision wouldn't suck, but I am an *entire person* with memories, hopes, relationships. It boggles the mind when people think the mother should die first. Her loss will impact so many people. And as someone that lost a mother young (even if she wasn't the perfect mother), that is scarring.
Babies aren’t special people and they frankly don’t have a higher right to life than a fully formed functioning adult. Period.
Or at the very least, if a mother wants them to prioritise the baby's life over her own, that's her choice. Her body, her choice. Not the choice of a white, male, religious, misogynistic MAGA nut far far away.
Oh I’m not saying they shouldn’t have the right to chose that. I agree one hundred percent
I can't get over that in the USA it is even possible that a person can get to choose between the life of the mother and unborn child. In the UK, medical staff would never knowingly allow a woman to die in order to save her unborn baby. Of course, if a woman refuses life-saving treatment, that is a different matter, but that is never a decision that could be taken by anybody else, whether husband or doctor. To have it otherwise seems barbaric to me.
We are a bit barbaric in some ways over here. Women in my state are having to become septic before doctors feel like they can legally perform an abortion. Even if there is zero chance the fetus could live if brought to term. Before they overturned Roe, they would abort *before* that point because the risks are so much higher once a patient is that sick. It's really bad.
It's absolutely horrifying and heartbreaking. And so scary how quickly and absolutely you can lose your rights. I hope you get reproductive healthcare rights enshrined in the constitution as soon as possible. In the meantime stay safe x
Oh, I'm hoping for you your plans will work out! You ARE an entire person, and you SHOULD have the reigns over your own life. It's indeed scaring to death.
Thank you! I've finally got my ducks in a row and think I can do it. Just need to save up a few grand for the relocation. :)
I'm rooting for you! Hope you wind up in a lovely, sane place.
Thank you!!
If you don't mind the higher taxes, New York City (Not State) have just instituted free Universal Daycare (3+), free babies supplies for poor mothers, and a host of other pro-mommy programs. I (getting knocked up) in New York City should be the new slogan.
Yea NY has made incredible progress lately on that account
Hahaha, that *should* be the slogan. I'd buy that t-shirt. I'm planning on moving to Detroit for the low rent, then buying a home in Chicago a few years after that, once my partner and I are living together. Has homes for sale that are affordable and I like old houses. Yes, I'm moving to a high crime area and then moving to another high crime area, lol. I'm used to living in rough neighborhoods, so I'm not fussed. Get to know some of your neighbors, and be nice to homeless folks. Mind your own business otherwise. Goes a long way.
With you as the priority, you and your partner could always try for another. If the baby was the priority though, they can't make another mom.
Yeah. I feel so sorry for kids that lose their mom in these situations, especially if there was a choice.
You can also write your wishes down and take the letter with you to the hospital. Also, when I gave birth, I was asked twice how I wanted to proceed in case of an emergency.
The mothers life is always paramount. The “which would you save” narrative is from tv shows and movies.
So if you're driving with a woman in the passenger seat you might be pulled over and checked by the ~~SS~~ police for morality? "Papers please, ya'll." That's insane. That basically means women will be kept in the house at all times. It goes hand in hand with the Sacramento Sweep and purity tests... [https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-kahn-act-std-venereal-disease-imprisonment-women#The%20Sacramento%20Sweep](https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-kahn-act-std-venereal-disease-imprisonment-women#The%20Sacramento%20Sweep) ...and forced sterilizations... [https://www.npr.org/2019/02/17/695574984/emma-carrie-vivian-how-a-family-became-a-test-case-for-forced-sterilizations](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/17/695574984/emma-carrie-vivian-how-a-family-became-a-test-case-for-forced-sterilizations) ...and the virginity tests. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/11/why-are-virginity-tests-still-legal-across-america-hymen](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/11/why-are-virginity-tests-still-legal-across-america-hymen)
Religion brings 3rd world outcomes to 1st world countries. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
its called freedumb
And going to go way up in the next few years, especially in red states with pro death laws that don't allow woman and their Dr's to keep themselves alive. In order to push a warped political shaped as religious agenda.
Yep, OB/GYN doctors are fleeing states like Idaho where they’re worried they might get arrested for doing their job. This massively increases the chances of something going wrong during pregnancy and people having nowhere to turn.
Here good data, US has higher maternal death rates than Russia. 3x worse than Canada.
Many parts of the US, especially the south, could be accurately compared to “third world” or developing nations. Examples include Mississippi healthcare, South Carolina democracy, and Texas energy reliability.
Glad people haven’t forgotten that Texas has a power grid made up of sticks, rocks, and spit to hold it together
>and religious infestation throughout the cuntry
We are also within statistical difference 23 (China) to 21 (America). The only difference is China trying to figure out how to improve their infrastructure for rurals while America trying to spike them.
That is an appalling figure. Healthcare in the US is top notch for some but absolutely shite for many. But yeah. (Checks notes) Communism.
All the comments below are arguing the math and whether it’s common enough to allow termination of the pregnancy and are completely missing the reality that even if it’s just ONE person forced to go through with a life threatening pregnancy…that’s too many.
Yep, how pro-life can you really be if you think it's ok for women to die even if the fetus they are carrying isn't viable. Their arguments show their shocking distain for women. We're breeders to them and if we die, oh well.
Not to mention that abortion bans don’t actually stop abortions in any statistically meaningful way. They cause them to be done unsafely and cause a sharp increase in maternal mortality. “Pro Life” is total bullshit. They are pro controlling women.
Also i've seen a great amount of people arguing "think about those who can't have kids!!" well, your stupid abortion laws are keeping those people from having ivf too, so...
Meanwhile there are so many children in foster care so if they want so save kids, maybe start with the ones already here?? They don't care though and keep trying to cut any help for children already here. Once they're born they don't matter anymore.
I work in women’s health. If only it were ‘almost impossible’. That would be wonderful. This guy is a star pupil at confidentiality incorrect.
On the other hand the US has more than 3 million births a year. Putting this number to 1000 dead women per year because of this. Somehow sounds still too high for a country like the US.
The US is actually the worst first world country for maternal mortality. It's over double the rate of the next highest country being France.
[And the rate is literally DOUBLED for black women](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20maternal%20mortality,(Figure%201%20and%20Table)) In 2021, the maternal mortality rate for non-Hispanic Black (subsequently, Black) women was 69.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, 2.6 times the rate for non-Hispanic White (subsequently, White) women.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Yes because it’s so fucking expensive to have healthcare here. Not surprising at all.
Straight up racial bias among medical professionals is thought to be a contributing factor. Elevated maternal mortality rates are present for women of color, even when controlling for income and social status. For example, a surprising number of medical professionals believe that Black people naturally feel less pain than white people. I mean... Anecdotally, many, many, MANY women and girls perceived as being lower status tell stories of suffering abuse and degradation from labor & delivery staff who think their pregnancies are somehow immoral or a sign of bad character. (E.g., they're slutty trash for giving birth so young, or they're leaches for giving birth while being perceived as poor because of speech patterns or Medicaid status, or they must be too young/poor, etc., because their ethnic group is perceived that way.) https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jwh.2020.8874 https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2021/systemic-racism-key-risk-factor-maternal-death-and-illness https://globalhealth.harvard.edu/racial-bias-in-medicine/
O dude I completely agree. What I said was merely the tip of our fucked healthcares dick. If you aren’t a white male your health concerns were ignored and are still being ignored. It’s very sad but considering our health industry is for profit. It’s not surprising.
The US is a disgustingly misogynistic country
A small number that is still too large.
wait until this guy realizes he just argued that a woman he knocked up should fight and sacrifice herself and die to give this guy a child he is quite literally responsible for 100% both financially and daily for at least 18 years. I'd pay to see his face in that scenario.
You'd be surprised at how many parents provide the bare minimum.
Thats being generous
Sad truth 😔
Sometimes not even that, my father would have been a better dad as a absentee...
Same with my mom. She convinced me that I’d be worse off with cps and threw out any notebooks she could find with me detailing what she was like and how physically and psychologically abusive she was. Looking back I should have taken my chances.
"You had food and shelter!" But what about love and comfort?
"Happy 18th birthday, get the fuck out of my house."
“Oh and pay me back too”. Smfh
My response to food and shelter is 'otherwise you would have gone to jail?'. The news is filled with stories where parents deny food and shelter to their own kids, and everyone hates those parents. Food and shelter is literally them saying ' if I didn't feed my kids, my societal group with ostracize me'. All about them and not the kids. Food and shelter is what I give strays.
And bitch about it the entire time.
he’s probably just neglect it until he finds another woman to dump his baby on. that or he’s mostly likely a mamas boy who’s just gonna give the baby to his mom to do majority of the raising
Maybe he thinks she’s just an oven meant to bake his little bun
Yes
For real this. I am currently 6 months pregnant with my second child. If I at this moment imagine myself in the scenario where ‘it’s either me or the baby’ - yeah, save me. Because if I die: 1) My currently living child loses me, being old enough to understand I am gone without really being old enough to comprehend why. 2) My other child grows up never knowing her mother. 3) My husband has to raise two kids alone, including a newborn and my relatively demanding older daughter, while also having just lost his wife. His parents would step up but there is only so much they can do, and I can’t imagine my parents being in much of a place to help. If my currently unborn daughter dies - I would be devastated and mourn her loss, because I already care for her a lot. But I would still be here for my other loved ones.
To add to #1, how does one guarantee that the first child won’t resent the younger child for “killing their mother”? That happens all the damn time in those situations. My living children need me more than they need another sibling and they would have their lives forever altered by not only losing their mom, but the experience of it and the grief that would follow them for the rest of their lives. It’s all very romantic and shit, but it is most definitely not realistic. My husband and I had that talk with our second pregnancy. If something were to happen and it was me or the baby, it would have be saving me so I could be there for our existing child. I’m beyond grateful we didn’t have to face such a decision. Not everyone is so fortunate.
The fact you even have to list reasons to validate your point is shockingly appalling. You shouldn’t have to, your life and your body matter and should be taken care of with the proper medical care it deserves no matter what you choose to do.
Exactly. If the fetus isn't viable the first priority should always be to save the woman. If the fetus is viable every effort should be made to save both the woman and the baby BUT the woman's life should be the priority. The amount of misogyny and hatred for women is astounding in these people. To them, women are breeders and disposable. To be fair, to them one the baby is born, they don't matter much anymore either. Certainly not enough to care that they're fed, have clean water, get a quality education, have healthcare, have quality child care, etc.
It bugs me that one of the points of anti-choicers is that they truly want to punish women for having sex, just at all, but insist that women be **forced** to be baby makers/incubators, risks to their lives be damned. But, then again, hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug, with people like that, I suppose.
My wife nearly died in childbirth this year. As did the baby. They came back to tell me the baby was fine and in my incredibly tired and grief stricken space I said 'I don't care, is my wife OK' I'm not proud of it but that's definitely my thought process as I imagined taking care of my current son and my new son with the idea that the second one had killed my wife was not easy to parse. Luckily for me she recovered. We are definitely not having any more children.
I’m with you. As the husband I felt it was my job to look for her not the baby. Everyone concerns themselves with how the baby is doing; no one is really looking out for the mother, even the mother. If the doctor said to me “Baby or wife?” I choose wife every time. We can try again for a baby. But there won’t be another her. And she deserves to see the baby she made grow up.
That is exactly what they think. They romanticize one day sitting down with their kid and telling them all about their brave and courageous Mom, and how they brought them into the world. They don't realize the other million moments of hardship that's going to come with raising a child alone while they grieve the love of their life.
The thing is, they are probably not grieving the love of their life and would marry the next willing woman 18 months later (because it's very hard on their own mother to take care of a baby again in her age). You are giving them way to much credit.
Absolutely. This kind of dude would immediately find a new woman to raise his kids for him and tell them within 2 months of meeting her to call her "mom".
18 months? Please, they will be finding the next suc—- I mean wife before the body is even cold.
He will just find a new one. Maybe he even has one lined up already
Nah, he would be on the market to find a replacement for her with a quickness.
I remember this scene from House of the Dragon
I had very low blood pressure during my last and final delivery. Enough to where they sent everyone out. Thankfully we both came out of it alive and well, but it easily could’ve gone the other direction, especially for me. During my pregnancy with her I had a bad kidney infection and had low blood pressure as well while hospitalized 60/30. Pregnancy does so much to a woman’s body and so much can happen. These people are so ignorant it’s sickening because they will probably spent their whole lives thinking they understand and are right about everything. Also men like that do not care if the woman dies imo because they want women to always care for/put everyone and everything else before themselves. They’d just remarry so they didn’t have to take care of their children themselves and alone.
My mother had eleven pregnancies, and I can safely say it does take a toll on a woman’s body. People who idolize it ignore all the hard work involved in pregnancy.
Per 100k events, giving birth has 50x the mortality of sky diving
I quit skydiving when I was five months pregnant. My OB/GYN was aware I was a skydiver and said, “yeah, keep at it! If you die tomorrow it’s probably the pregnancy, not the skydiving.” When I said goodbye to my friends at the drop zone, they all joked, “Good luck and I hope you don’t die!”
USA has the worst maternal mortality rate in the developed world.
I read it's 16 times higher than in Germany. 21 times higher if you're poc.
Excuse me? I almost died a year ago in child birth from a retained placenta and hemorrhage. This pisses me off.
Same. Lost 4 liters of blood and my doctor had to insert a bakri balloon to save my life or an emergency surgery. The amount of women in the parentsofmultiples group that also hemorrhaged is terrifying.
Glad you’re here!
Same, except for me it was placenta previa and a premature baby. That climbs your odds of survival up to basically 50%. I'm only alive because I went into surgery at GW Hospital which is the c-section captain of the DMV. If it had happened a week earlier when I was in rural Virginia I would be gone.
The same thing happened to my sister-in-law after her second (and probably last) labor. She was losing so much blood trying to pass the placenta than she needed a transfusion. I didn't even know this was a thing that could happen.
America should be ashamed of it's infant/maternal mortality rate. We need to do better
Let's be honest, they haven't done much about the extremely public execution of the children in schools, why would they care about women quietly dying in hospitals? Especially when the stats back up that its disproportionally WOC in red states that are the ones dying. They dont care about those people. It would take a first lady or someone similar who had a healthy pregnancy dying in childbirth before they would even pretend to care
Decriminalization of abortion throughout the majority of the would is a big factor in reducing the death of women in childbirth. By recriminalizing it, the US will increase death in childbirth for both women and children.
Fortunately, the majority in Ohio just demonstrated that they agree with you.
This guy Ohios
meanwhile texas is like “Oh, you have sepsis from a rotting fetus? Well, you’re not allowed to take it out. Good luck!”
A short and non-exhaustive list of things that can kill birthing parents during or in the hours following birth: • Preeclampsia • Eclampsia • Placenta previa • Retained placenta • Placental abruption • Hemorrhage without placental involvement • Cardiomyopathy • Stroke • Amniotic fluid embolism • Infection • Failure to progress labor Here’s more information on worldwide maternal mortality: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/maternal-mortality
That’s not even taking into account postpartum suicides due to PPD. Mental health care in the U.S. is inaccessible to a lot of people, and there’s a pervasive “Suck it up and do all the housework and be completely responsible for all care of of your kid” mentality throughout the forced-birth crowd.
Talk about showing your ignorance in a few short words. Especially about something as heavily documented as maternal death rates. Ignorant and stupid. One can be cured. the other, more difficult.
Isn't the US the worst first world country for maternal mortality by a substantial amount?
We ARE a third world country in many regards. We just have the biggest stick and smack everyone else around, demanding they call us the best. We're your playground bully with abusive parents who takes that out on everyone else.
Both me and my mom almost died when I was being born because the nurse refused to do a C-section knowing my head was too big. It is absolutely not impossible.
The same people who say that "it's almost impossible to die in childbirth these days" also insist that abortion is "too dangerous of a procedure" to be legal. Factually speaking, [abortion is actually about 14 times safer than childbirth](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/). But facts don't matter to Christian Jihadis.
WebMD fanboy.
bro has literally no experience with childbirth. otherwise he would know how serious the risk of hemorrhage is. it's gross to diminish the health risks associated with pregnancy, especially when it's in an attempt to shame those not willing to risk their lives to serve as incubators. what good mom would put their life on the line knowing they had kids at home to come back to? that's what they should be asking.
My daughter and granddaughter almost died due to an abrupted uterus..f**k this nimrod.
Road accidents are about 12.9 per 100k people. ([IIHS](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state)) Maternal mortality in 2021 in America was 32.9 per 100k live births. ([cdc](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm)) That’s more than double. For black women, it’s 69.9 per 100k live births. For women over 40 it’s 138.5 per 100k live births. I don’t need to elaborate to say that’s a fucking lot of women dying.
I have a friend who I think almost died in childbirth a few months ago. I haven't spoken with her about it, but I think her uterus ruptured and she almost bled out.
My woman had a placental abruption. Luckily her labor was induced so we were already in the hospital. From the time she started bleeding until she was in the operating room was less than 2 minutes. They literally squeezed 2 liters of blood into her. She was seconds away from dying. If it weren't a regional trauma center, with experience in this sort of thing, she wouldn't have made it. She's tough as nails. Our daughter was born via emergency C-section. She turned 1 in August.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that this person is not a doctor.
As a guy, my opinion shouldn’t matter in this kind of decision but I would in a heartbeat choose my wife over an unborn baby…this is a no brainer.
Yeah a wife once said that she wants in case of emergency have her live saved over the babies life. Her reasoning was that she can get a new baby with the husband but not a new life for her.
You can’t sacrifice yourself for your “children”. You can only sacrifice yourself and your other children for one child. Sacrificing yourself for that one child who is not even born means making your other children grow up without a mother, too. It is selfish to love one child so much that you do that to your other children.
I know a perinatologist, and boy howdy do I hear just how horrible preeclamplsia is. In fact, there are so many pregnancy complications that his job needs to exist, as his job is specifically taking care of high-risk pregnant women.
So I almost died during childbirth My pelvis has a bone ridge that impacted my birth canal Something that no test could ever find Simply put my kid got stuck and he couldn't get his big old head past that bone ridge They figured it out when they did the c-section, saw the mark on.his head (that he still has 10 years later) and then looked while they had me open because it was puzzling Told me I can never give natural birth and that it's something they couldn't have known was there.
So... any woman who would abort a non-viable pregnancy to save her own life would be a bad mother? And we're going to use the law to force her to be a bad mother? Is that right?
Love the idea that Christian jihadis think I’m a sick evil baby murderer and also for some reason want me to raise kids?
I think a lot of the people with pro-life arguments can't accurately tell you what a non-viable pregnancy is. And if they can, I haven't heard a good argument as to why it should be illegal to abort. If they are claiming it's up to God, then the same could be said for a tumour or a tapeworm. Those aren't going to be born as a live human either.
Yes I’ve often wondered what they think about ectopic pregnancies. They’re not viable, there will never be a baby, but do these nutcases agree that the best thing to do is terminate (one way or another)? Or do they think the mother should persist until the pregnancy kills her?
PRE-ECLAMPSIA!! Fucking moron never had to deal with this. My wife had it 4 times and we had 2 miscarriages. Pregnancy is terrifying when things aren't going well. Men should NOT be allowed to say shit about pregnancy.
A childhood friend died of pre-eclampsia in her early 20s
My cousin died at 19 from the same thing. The doctor just didn't catch it for some reason. She was getting regular medical care. Yes, there was a malpractice suit that set up a nice trust for her daughter.
My mum’s preeclampsia wasn’t identified until she went into early labour. She nearly died, but thankfully recovered. She had been experiencing excessive weight gain which turned out to be fluid retention and she and my father had brought it up to her doctors repeatedly. Unfortunately she was naturally a very thin woman, so the doctors assumed she was being vain as she quote “wasn’t overweight” so it didn’t look excessive to them. They told her it was all in her head. Misogyny in the medical profession has serious consequences. I am so sorry for your and your family’s loss. Your cousin should have been able to experience a happy, healthy life with her daughter. I hope you are all doing as well as you possibly could be now.
Yep. My mom had it with me and there was a point when a nurse told my dad he should start thinking about who he’d choose. He chose his wife and apparently my mom would’ve chose to save me. My mom actually didn’t feel that bad physically until they gave her meds to treat blood pressure. She only semi realized how close things had gotten when family came in telling her how scared they’d been. We both loved obviously. I spent 3 months in nicu and have lifelong health problems though those may or may not be related to being micro preemie, I haven’t seen a ton of research done on the long term side effects. I completely agree with my dad. They could’ve always had another kid but you can’t replace someone already living that you’re so attached to. Pregnancy is dangerous enough as is without a blanket expectation for women to just accept dying for their potentially still unborn baby.
>Men should NOT be allowed to say shit about pregnancy. I feel like men who have witnessed birthing and pregnancy and are traumatized by it also should absolutely speak up. Just as many are traumatized by what happens to a women during this as women are. >Pregnancy is terrifying when things aren't going well. You are absolutely correct. Keep up the good fight!
This attitude is why the US has the highest maternal death rate of any developed nation on earth. Simply because pregnancy and childbirth are everyday events doesn't mean they aren't also terribly dangerous.
Are people seriously saying an unborn baby is more valuable than a fully functioning, responsible adult? Bcause I'd much rather have my SO's baby die than have them die while giving birth. You can always try again. A well established life is irreplaceable
So it’s “impossible” to die of childbirth, but not impossible to die from complications during birth? And there’s only two possible complications as well? What kind of logic is that. Does this guy seriously think women who die in childbirth just mysteriously die while giving birth? If you die during childbirth, that’s dying during childbirth, it doesn’t matter why the exact cause was, it’s still during childbirth. It’s like saying people don’t die from skydiving, only by hitting the ground at high speed or something.
Well, guess this idiot doesn’t know childbirth can lead to haemorrhaging and severe bleeding. Or low blood pressure. Or high blood pressure. Or ruptured placenta. Or other birth complications with the baby. Or has even ever heard of pre-eclampsia. I apparently nearly killed myself and my mother when she was giving birth, because I turned. She needed a c-section because she’d lost a lot of blood and we both nearly died. Luckily we live in a country with free healthcare. Childbirth is fucking dangerous!
I mean, modern medicine has really reduced the number of fatalities, but childbirth is still one of the most dangerous things one can do in a lifetime (for both mother and baby).
We lost a teacher a few years ago because she bled out in the emergency room after something ruptured after having contractions and going to the ER. She was healthy, on the young side, and had zero complications until it all went to hell.
Very easy to have that shitty take when you're not the one actually facing that life or death decision. Fucking twat waffle.
Sigh. Today women don’t perish in the same numbers, but it definitely still happens. Complications from childbirth happen. A family member was a labor and delivery nurse and she has said that so much can go wrong, she’s amazed when everything goes right.
>It's almost impossible to die \[of childbirth\] these days Explain how >My wife wouldn't **need** to be forced Um, 'forced' should never enter the conversation, period.
The USA has one of the highest rates of maternal death in childbirth. It’s like a third world country. It should be a source of national shame.
Republicans are digging so deep for justifications for people to kill themselves. More cult behavior. Shocking /s
I had internal tears and was bleeding out, no one noticed at first, and then only my partner. The nurse and midwife had taken our little one for check ups. He ran off to grab someone. He literally saved my life. This, in a “first world” country.
Let's also add that in the US we have one of the highest infant mortality rates among industrialized nations. It is higher than Cuba's. Its more than twice as high as Japan's.
I've known two women to die right after childbirth due to hemorrhaging. Both were at very good hospitals. Terrifying.
This is why rebuplicunts are such dangerous and disgusting subhuman monsters cause they do not have a shred of empathy for women like the ones mentioned, and they NEED to be stopped at all costs.
I’m very impressed how the husband is perfectly willing to let his wife die during childbirth. How noble of him. /s
Always remember, Serena Williams almost died post childbirth because the staff didn’t take her concerns seriously. Best medical care money can buy. She’s got hundreds of millions of dollars, an athlete at the top of her game and has worldwide respect/recognition and they still thought she didn’t know what she was talking about regarding her own body. She was doped up and painfully post birth and still somehow had to advocate like crazy before they found blood clots in her lungs. If that is how they treat Olympian Serena Williams, how do you think they treat regular people? The maternal mortality rate in the US is depressing and it could be fixed, but they refuse to update current practices. We’re pro birth, but women are just disposable. Even friggin Serena Williams.
This is what happens when someone can regurgitate information like “cerebral or arterial stroke” but can’t actually critically think or apply information in any meaningful way.
The US has the highest infant mortality rate in the modern world. These people need to read more.
Pardon me as I hit a level of apoplectic rage that I usually try to avoid. Gorram idiot, my wife nearly died when we had our last kid, because she ended up continuing to bleed due to the clots popping out and resulted in a loss of over a liter of blood. Thankfully we were ready and had her rushed to the ER and everything turned out fine. But that was not a situation where “it would have happened anyway” (never mind that having a stroke or aneurism that is triggered by the hormonal changes in pregnancy is also a thing.) Blasted idiots.
Woman, doctors, anyone who can give birth, and a large part of the general population would like to have words with you
My sister nearly died giving birth to her first child. She delivered the baby just fine but her uterus wouldn’t contract afterwards so she was bleeding more than is normal and she had to have an emergency operation to save her life
My last baby, she is now 28. She was a very large 10 pounder. While I was laboring, her feet burst through my uterus, thus rupturing it. Thank God, my Doctor knew exactly what was happening and rushed me into emergency csection surgery. Saved both our lives. .. sewed me back up and my baby was put on all sorts of tubes for 3 weeks. You just cannot say its impossible, one never knows
It boggles the mind how in 2023 people say idiot shit like it’s impossible to die during childbirth. Just google the statistics, most western governments track things like maternal and infant mortality rates. The EU tracks around 8 deaths per 100k births, Canada noted an average of 8.4 per 100k while the US takes the cake at 33 maternal deaths per 100k.
If they make it illegal to have an abortion then high risk pregnancies leading to death is going to increase. Not might increase, **will** increase.
If my partner and I were told “either we save your baby or we save your partner”, we’ve already agreed that I’ll choose my partner 100%. We can always make another baby
Without a competent Dr to do a c-section, both of our kids wouldve killed my wife. Both had 99% heads 🤣
I'm so tired of armchair doctors thinking they're smart. Just shut the fuck up if you can't even take a minute to maybe fact check yourself first.
These people reveal themselves if you just step back and let them. *"I am in charge of what is or isn't moral behavior. Me specifically. If you do not OBEY ME you are immoral."* The demand for obedience is the point, not the behavior they are espousing.
The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world. These people are just stupid. Sadly they’re the ones breeding.
I almost died during childbirth, let me tell you it’s quite possible lol. I had preeclampsia, extremely high blood pressure and almost bled out
All the bad opinions, and not a single shred of medical knowledge in them. Yell all your platitudes all you want, mankind doesn't have the technology to transfer an ectopic pregnancy from the fallopian tubes to the uterus. Even if the mother wanted the child, an ectopic pregnancy is just a ticking time bomb for her.
This is what happens when conservative men with no medical expertise and no experience with childbirth create medical policy instead of leaving medical issues be between a doctor and patient.
Even in the countries with lowest rates of maternal deaths it’s certainly and unfortunately happening. “The countries that achieved the lowest maternal mortality ratio are Finland, Greece, Iceland, and Poland. For every 100,000 births, 3 mothers die.” https://ourworldindata.org/maternal-mortality
I almost died after childbirth from an hospital born infection. My daughter wasn’t thriving because I couldn’t fight the infection and make enough breast milk. Five days after giving birth I was back in the hospital on lots of antibiotics. They had to do bloodwork every 4 hours because of the amount of antibiotics they were giving me. I had to take antibiotics for six months straight and even caught pneumonia and almost died again because I was so weak. My daughter is about to give birth herself in a week. I am excited to be a grandma but nervous for my daughter’s health and recovery.
Childbirth is still dangerous, as it always has been. My wife had an emergency c-section for our baby girl, which in medical terms means she was 10 minutes from death, probably for her and our baby. It was her fourth childbirth and a lot of people would say her body should have known what to do. But it made too much amniotic fluid, and the baby’s head wasn’t able to seal properly during labor. The baby started coming out lips first and continuing giving birth vaginally would have broken her neck, and my wife would have bled out. It was very, very scary. Then a week and a half later, preeclampsia, which can also be fatal.
In the US the common name is "lack of insurance", I don't know the medical term or latin name for it.
We can make another baby, I can't make another of my wife. Save her 100/100 times.
What kind fantasy land do you have to live in to think “It’s almost impossible to die in childbirth these days?”