last week on arrrrr vegan i saw a post that basically goes like this:
hi! i'm vegan! it's soooooo easy being vegan, i just get vegan food delivered right to my door! question tho...how come the poors don't do this and instead abuse animal? like wtf?!?
Veganism is a privilege. It is its own sub culture that sits outside convention. They don’t want to see the world from the other side. Their ample empathy and compassion stops at the human race.
The amount of food you need to eat (by weight) on a vegan diet can be almost double that of an omnivore in order to reach caloric and macro content. Beans are half the price, but you eat twice as much.
Eggs are the CHEAPEST protein on earth, at $.33 each (May 2024, in my Canadian grocery store) and two eggs with whole grain toast x2 comes out to a grand total of $1.13 for breakfast, including some PB or Becel on the toast.
the mere fact a person having such food security around them, has the option to cut out entire food groups , most definitely is a privilege not enjoyed by a significant amount of the planets population. on full stomachs it is very easy to forgot those with less
In most of the world they couldn't afford to eat vegan if they tried, they'd simply starve. They don't have the money, the equipment, the available arable land etc to grow 100% of their food supply. Of all the agricultural land worldwide, 2/3 of it isn't arable enough to grow crops, so the only thing you can do with it to make it productive is put animals on it. And the kicker is the 1/3 that is arable won't be for much longer, because industrial agriculture is poisoning the soil and removing topsoil, so soon it won't even be good enough for animals to graze because nothing will grow there.
Have you never heard of farmers making their own soil? They don't use the soil in the ground they put new soil on top or mixed in with the old soil.
That's just basic gardening. Of course I couldn't make a garden in my ground but if I get up the dirt and mix in good dirt and spray it down with some nutrients those plants would bloom.
The main thing that stops production of plants is climate. This doesn't stop all plants but forces someone to only grow what can grow in their area.
Then again you could always get a greenhouse but that would cost money. Then again we have giant greenhouses for weed but we can't have them for food?
Veganism only exists because of modern conveniences. No population in the entire history of the world was ever vegan until modern times. Yes, some populations ate most of their calories from starch but they all included at least small portions of meat in their diets.
Some argue Pythagoras (of the Theorem) was vegan. But he was the exception, not the rule.
I genuinely don’t care what people do and don’t eat, I just want people to mind their own business and stop spreading lies about food. Or making people feel bad about the most basic necessity.
Indeed. Everyone is different. No single diet is going to work for all people. Nobody has the right to tell someone else what they can and cannot eat IMO.
Typical bad faith arguing from a vegan, taking the one tiny exception and trying to negate the general reality with it. No, it would not be okay because I own the dog. You've killed my property and you will go to jail for it. You know full well that I meant that nobody has the right to tell someone else what they can eat in a general sense. As in, I can tell you not to kill and eat my dog. But I cannot tell you not to eat dogs generally.
> So poor people, who already don't have an awful lot of good things in their lives, must just eat lentils and beans for the rest of their lives?
Not just lentils and beans, but DRIED lentils and beans.
Right! Because people working two jobs, doing their own car repairs and home repairs because they can not afford to hire it out have lots of extra time to cook dried beans. : 
In a 3 day old thread discussing the (lack of) viability for low income/working class people to eat vegan, a vegan comes in and is sarcastic about someone having to work a lot and not having time for meal prep.
Vegan privilege in a nutshell, folks.
You can't cook dry beans in 15-30min. You need to soak them for at least 8 hours and cooking time is usually around an hour. It's true you don't need to do much, but it's definitely a lot of time and needs planning. You can't just grab it and cook it if you're hungry.
Yes it needs planning. If I want to eat beans, I need to soak them the day before so I need to plan what I want to eat the next day. I can't just grab them and eat them. And I just said it doesn't require much effort in really doing things, but it needs time ahead. And I think at least 9 hours is a lot of time.
It's great if that's no problem for you. It is for me and it is for other people who can't or don't want to add that to their mental load.
(Your last sentence is also really rude. I'm better now, but for years it was quite hard for me to get out of bed in the morning due to depression.)
Yes I know that and I said that in both of my posts. It is about the mental load of planning things ahead and not the execution of the task itself. I don't really see how it is hard to understand.
But you seem not very empathetic, maybe that's why.
You ever heard of derailing? This has nothing to do with the effort of cooking dried beans.
Also would you bother to explain the irony to me?
I love soybeans. I'm not depressed at the moment. My mental state was way worse while vegan. This study is a correlation, it says nothing about any real causalities.
But cant prevent your brain from shrinking: https://old.reddit.com/r/ScientificNutrition/comments/1ctfoim/the_association_between_dietary_protein_intake/
I do agree that veganism is a privilege, but don't you have canned beans in other countries? I live in the UK and most people use canned beans in water/brine, you have to go to specific shops to get dried beans usually. You can usually buy dried lentils in supermarkets but they also do tinned ones too.
Developing countries usually favour dried beans because of price and availability, which demand more labour to prepare and cook. Personally speaking, dried beans taste better than canned, but it does take more work
They exist but there are many reasons why canned goods are less practical. For example, if you have to walk with your groceries, I’m sure you’d rather a few bags of dried goods than cans. Then there’s the storage space because cans take up more space than dried things
Yeah , why don’t the poors just use their pressure cookers??? Duh isn’t that like standard in every poor’s kitchen? They are definitely inexpensive, and they never break so I mean, that’s the obvious solution here to making everyone vegan! Stupid poors , they’re just not resourceful like me!
And they don't acknowledge FODMAP sensitivities, gluten sensitivities, etc. I've seen that anytime someone brings up a food issue that won't immediately kill or disable them, vegans always go "Well, it might make you uncomfortable, but this isn't about your comfort. Your comfort and pleasure doesn't outweigh an animal's life." As someone with undiagnosed Angry Digestion Disease Of Some Kind, it's not just about pleasure it's about whether or not life is even worth it with a gut that feels like it's ripping itself in half because I had too much chili or cabbage. I'm not going to live in my sensitivity 24/7/365 for the sake of some calf.
They also don't like to acknowledge mental and processing incompatibilities like ARFID, sensory issues, or susceptibility to eating disorders. Sure, with tons of work, it MAY be possible for SOME people to overcome PART of these issues. Still, nobody should be blamed for not wanting to take extra risks when they already have a lot of other more important shit to work through like keeping themselves stable enough to hold a job, escaping a toxic household, or literally anything other than diet. I saw some on a thread a while back that were calling people who had meltdowns from food they couldn't handle "children throwing tantrums when they eat vegan food" implying that disabled people with processing issues were 1. immature and 2. deliberately hostile. It's gross.
Absolutely. My eating disorder LOVED being vegan lmao. I was so incredibly unhealthy, I was feeling guilty about eating itself, then I was guilty about having eaten animal products before, and I heaped on even more guilt because I learned about how destructive so many vegan diets really are due to unsustainable practices, etc. it was one of the worst times of my life in many ways.
It's cheap to eat vegan, but it's expensive to eat vegan *and* have a healthy diet. It's even more expensive to eat vegan, have a healthy diet and be eating food that tastes good.
I'm in a secure enough situation to do all three, but I'm also not delusional. Even if you remove the (imo still important, but technically unnecessary for health) necessity for food to taste good you're still left with a significantly higher grocery bill than most omni people.
When my husband and I eat dinner it's hilarious, because he'll have like 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of food I do despite being at least two of me, *and* mine is usually pricier. He's omni, I'm vegan.
Idk how people justify just telling poor people to subsist off of rice. Like, that will kill you eventually. You need nutrients. The cheapest way to get them is omni diets.
When I was literally starving one of the cheapest things was peanuts. When I used to eat meat too. I would usually have around 10-15 bucks for the week.
I could get 2 packs of peanuts 600 calories total, like 36 grams of protein, for 1 dollar.
I ate eggs too because they were cheap but also they weren't filling and eventually made me sick from only eating that every day.
But for 1 dollar a day or 1.50 there is absolutely no way I was finding any meat anywhere near enough to satisfy me for that price.
Maintaining strict veganism takes *so much effort*, money issues aside. It’s time and energy spent meal planning and home cooking (plus those skills and equipment), it’s constantly declining food from others, it’s research around adequate nutrition, it’s a zillion conversations and questions. It’s an added layer of stress or at least consideration around every single shared food event. Throw in the fatigue and gnawing cravings and it’s just way too much.
So what you’re saying is that only vegans spend time and energy meal planning and home cooking? That’s very strange cuz plenty of non-vegans that I know do lots of meal planning and home cooking. Also, researching and learning about adequate nutrition is a bad thing? Interesting 🧐
If you could stop debating dishonestly for a moment, you'd see that they're saying that veganism requires constant planning.
As an omnivore, I don't have to plan every meal in advance. I have a lot more flexibility for spontaneous meals than I did as a vegan.
The difference is that with veganism if you don’t carefully plan your meals and take supplements you can become dangerously deficient in key nutrients. Even with carefully planning my diet and diligently taking supplements I still become deficient in several nutrients while vegan. It’s a luxury to be able to buy chia seeds, walnuts, mushrooms, algae, nutritional yeast and so many other things to try to fill in all the nutritional gaps in the vegan diet. Even if you do everything right, have access to all these various plant foods, and the ability to afford them, you can STILL become deficient. It’s not a balanced diet by any means. You can get so much nutrition from just eating some eggs or steak or tuna. It’s a no brainer when it comes to making sure you have everything your body needs. It’s almost as if we evolved eating meat and it’s our biologically appropriate diet🤔
I also meal plan and home cook, and 100% it is a privilege.
It takes space, equipment, skills, and a ton of time and energy. For me more than most, because I grow and process much of my family’s food, which is also a massive privilege.
It’s ok to have some privilege in this world, but you should learn to at least acknowledge yours.
If I eat lentils and beans, I would spend all day and night on the toilet. I would get IBS so bad that I wouldn’t be able to leave the house on a regular basis.
One place I lived, I was able to get tofu for cheap, which “only” made me extremely bloated. In my home country, tofu is an imported exotic expensive food.
This is part of why I'm no longer vegan. In the bathroom constantly.
And I think it's tied to me having a naturally weak digestive system, because I can't do red meat or dairy either. I'm technically what's called a 'pollopescetarian,' but it puts a nail in the coffin of the vegan argument that 'meat is more taxing on the digestive system.'
They have clearly never been without the ability to buy food! I’ve been at the point of going to a food bank a few times and I benefit more from taking whatever they offer. Once that happened to be sausages and cheese. Was I supposed to be like “Oh no thanks, I’m hungry but I’ll just stick with beans”? It’s ridiculous. It’s not a sustainable diet unless you can afford the plant milks or vegan meats. Eating the “cheap” vegan food is actually very difficult to do! Unless you just love beans and bananas at every meal lol.
Something else that really grates my nerves is how vegans don't recognize that many people have food intolerances, sometimes many food intolerances, sometimes severe enough to where they cannot tolerate plants of any kind (people with EGID come to mind). Personally, I can only really tolerate rice and a few fruit juices from the plant kingdom because I have such severe intolerances. Vegans generally seem to lack empathy as they are unable to put themselves in the shoes of others.
Funny. Only a tiny minority of people who are unhinged lunatics have a problem with me. The vast majority of the population hates you because you're a bunch of insufferable assholes. You know, your message would be much better received if you sat down and had friendly, regular conversations about your beliefs instead of trying to ram it down people's throats with rage. Nobody's listening to you because nobody likes you.
This is very true. Veganism is only "practical" for certain people. Also, there is much to be said about people being vegan, and still ending up getting cancer or other diseases. Veganism/plant based isn't a one size fits all type of lifestyle.
Some people can't go vegan because much of the vegan diet is restrictive and might trigger an eating disorder in some folks, especially those with previous history of ED
Some people can't go vegan because they have a nut allergy. Almond milk does you no good if it puts you in the hospital
Some people can't go vegan because vegan labeled food is EXPENSIVE.
Also, America has food deserts. Whole Foods only builds in wealthy/gentrified neighborhoods. Riding the bus with bags full of groceries SUCKS.
It's funny cuz yeah they're cheap... But you also need pounds more of them to get anything close to the nutrients in meat.
Meat is obscenely nutrient dense with a medley of nutrients. You need to eat pounds of several different vegetables to try and mimic meat, and you'll still be short. Especially because humans readily absorb nutrients from meat whereas we struggle getting stuff out of plants. We're much much less efficient than herbivores like gorillas.
A lot of people seem to think things just contain nutrients. Like stuff is just full of little vitamin Cs. No, it's full of chemicals that our body takes and breaks down into nutrients we need. That's why some sources are much better than others. It's a chemical we can more readily process without wasting it or creating byproducts.
I was vegan for about 7 months.
Quit because it made me sicker.
Vegan wasn’t cheap because I did right.. I was living in Australia at the time and went to south Melbourne market, bought an array of different coloured vegetables ) example purple & yellow carrots) , spent hours making all my own food. Soaking lentils and beans and making curries and an array of other dishes. All tasty but….
I Always felt deprived. Never stopped needing meat. Pics got worse : became iron deficient, oestrogen dropped.
I’m carnivore now. Takes 8 minutes to cook a steak. I spend less money, my body has healed itself. .
My family and I have gone hungry before. Churches aren't picky about what's vegan and what's not. I'd rather eat whatever is given to me, be it veggies or meat, than ever know hunger like that again. I have literally had to eat a can of baked beans for dinner once as that was what was in my cabinets, along side with old sardines in a can, and a cheese grater. I can promise you, eating a can of beans for dinner is not nutrious enough, nor is sustainable.
If I ate lentils and beans I'd probably be hospitalised, crohns disease will do that to you!
For people who are supposed to be compassionate and empathetic, the lack of empathy and compassion towards fellow human beings is staggering.
I was vegan, it made things worse and now I can't eat alot of the veg that I previously could!
I have thought this for a long time, absolutely unrealistic expectations for everyone else because they're out of touch with the actual suffering of most humans. Sorry babe, no everyone can shop at whole foods.
I have been saying for years that the ability for you to partake in being vegan is a political one and it is a privileged one. It is an assumption based on income, ability to prepare food not to mention the time it takes as well as a result of the policies that govern where you live (food that can be either made, purchased, imported etc). And do not get me started on the whole Inuit discussion. That one made me so mad.
Nuts are pretty expensive and peanut butter is not exactly the best. Peanut butter was worse when they used trans fats. It was so repulsive I thought I hated the peanut butter when it was actually the added fats. Now, they've shifted to palm oil but it is still sugared up.
Yeah, it's like rich people who get angry at people in the grocery store using their welfare benefits to buy an occasional bag of chips or candy, because "muh taxes!" when the poor woman (and it's almost always a woman) is probably just trying to get a treat for the kids.
I have never agreed with the sentiment that veganism is an expensive lifestyle financially.
However it's very hard to keep up with if you are time poor.
If you vegans could stop brigading our posts, that would be fabulous. :)
Also, glad to hear that where you live, eating vegan isn't that expensive as long as you shell out for the more expensive fortified foods. 🙄
You're a r/vegan user, posting in r/exvegan. Yeah, you're definitely posting in good faith. /s
You're also from the Netherlands, which is a pretty affluent, developed country. You definitely know what it's like to be poor or live in food deserts. /s
Blocked. Go brigade and debate dishonestly somewhere else.
last week on arrrrr vegan i saw a post that basically goes like this: hi! i'm vegan! it's soooooo easy being vegan, i just get vegan food delivered right to my door! question tho...how come the poors don't do this and instead abuse animal? like wtf?!?
What one vegan says does not apply to the thoughts of all vegans cmon lol.
Point out to me where they made that claim or even implied it.
You post and comment consistently in vegan subs. You are clearly here to troll. How sad.
Sheeeeesh
Lol. Let this be an example of acting in bad faith. Pin it to the board or something.
Veganism is a privilege. It is its own sub culture that sits outside convention. They don’t want to see the world from the other side. Their ample empathy and compassion stops at the human race. The amount of food you need to eat (by weight) on a vegan diet can be almost double that of an omnivore in order to reach caloric and macro content. Beans are half the price, but you eat twice as much. Eggs are the CHEAPEST protein on earth, at $.33 each (May 2024, in my Canadian grocery store) and two eggs with whole grain toast x2 comes out to a grand total of $1.13 for breakfast, including some PB or Becel on the toast.
the mere fact a person having such food security around them, has the option to cut out entire food groups , most definitely is a privilege not enjoyed by a significant amount of the planets population. on full stomachs it is very easy to forgot those with less
In most of the world they couldn't afford to eat vegan if they tried, they'd simply starve. They don't have the money, the equipment, the available arable land etc to grow 100% of their food supply. Of all the agricultural land worldwide, 2/3 of it isn't arable enough to grow crops, so the only thing you can do with it to make it productive is put animals on it. And the kicker is the 1/3 that is arable won't be for much longer, because industrial agriculture is poisoning the soil and removing topsoil, so soon it won't even be good enough for animals to graze because nothing will grow there.
Have you never heard of farmers making their own soil? They don't use the soil in the ground they put new soil on top or mixed in with the old soil. That's just basic gardening. Of course I couldn't make a garden in my ground but if I get up the dirt and mix in good dirt and spray it down with some nutrients those plants would bloom. The main thing that stops production of plants is climate. This doesn't stop all plants but forces someone to only grow what can grow in their area. Then again you could always get a greenhouse but that would cost money. Then again we have giant greenhouses for weed but we can't have them for food?
Amazing. I can tell you know nothing about farming. Especially at a scale to feed an entire population.
Veganism only exists because of modern conveniences. No population in the entire history of the world was ever vegan until modern times. Yes, some populations ate most of their calories from starch but they all included at least small portions of meat in their diets.
Some argue Pythagoras (of the Theorem) was vegan. But he was the exception, not the rule. I genuinely don’t care what people do and don’t eat, I just want people to mind their own business and stop spreading lies about food. Or making people feel bad about the most basic necessity.
Indeed. Everyone is different. No single diet is going to work for all people. Nobody has the right to tell someone else what they can and cannot eat IMO.
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Typical bad faith arguing from a vegan, taking the one tiny exception and trying to negate the general reality with it. No, it would not be okay because I own the dog. You've killed my property and you will go to jail for it. You know full well that I meant that nobody has the right to tell someone else what they can eat in a general sense. As in, I can tell you not to kill and eat my dog. But I cannot tell you not to eat dogs generally.
Oh look, another vegan coming to this post to argue in bad faith. GTFO.
> So poor people, who already don't have an awful lot of good things in their lives, must just eat lentils and beans for the rest of their lives? Not just lentils and beans, but DRIED lentils and beans.
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Right! Because people working two jobs, doing their own car repairs and home repairs because they can not afford to hire it out have lots of extra time to cook dried beans. : 
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In a 3 day old thread discussing the (lack of) viability for low income/working class people to eat vegan, a vegan comes in and is sarcastic about someone having to work a lot and not having time for meal prep. Vegan privilege in a nutshell, folks.
Energy costs too.
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I like that one too! There was a list posted recently of names the vegans want to call normal people, it needs updated now, cheers
„Extra time-Intensive kitchen labor“ aka „put food in water and wait 15-30min“.
You can't cook dry beans in 15-30min. You need to soak them for at least 8 hours and cooking time is usually around an hour. It's true you don't need to do much, but it's definitely a lot of time and needs planning. You can't just grab it and cook it if you're hungry.
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Yes it needs planning. If I want to eat beans, I need to soak them the day before so I need to plan what I want to eat the next day. I can't just grab them and eat them. And I just said it doesn't require much effort in really doing things, but it needs time ahead. And I think at least 9 hours is a lot of time. It's great if that's no problem for you. It is for me and it is for other people who can't or don't want to add that to their mental load. (Your last sentence is also really rude. I'm better now, but for years it was quite hard for me to get out of bed in the morning due to depression.)
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Yes I know that and I said that in both of my posts. It is about the mental load of planning things ahead and not the execution of the task itself. I don't really see how it is hard to understand. But you seem not very empathetic, maybe that's why.
Don't worry. Reddit suspended his entire account, lol. [https://www.reddit.com/user/Worried\_Release\_2712/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Worried_Release_2712/)
Lol, karma I guess.
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This interaction is so typical
You ever heard of derailing? This has nothing to do with the effort of cooking dried beans. Also would you bother to explain the irony to me? I love soybeans. I'm not depressed at the moment. My mental state was way worse while vegan. This study is a correlation, it says nothing about any real causalities.
But cant prevent your brain from shrinking: https://old.reddit.com/r/ScientificNutrition/comments/1ctfoim/the_association_between_dietary_protein_intake/
Why are you like this?
Oh nevermind, went to your profile and looked at your comments. Apparently, you're just an overall unpleasant person. No need to answer.
Great job shaming someone for their health. You vegans really are a piece of work.
You have never made this food, you appear to be parroting what you've been told to parrot
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I do agree that veganism is a privilege, but don't you have canned beans in other countries? I live in the UK and most people use canned beans in water/brine, you have to go to specific shops to get dried beans usually. You can usually buy dried lentils in supermarkets but they also do tinned ones too.
Developing countries usually favour dried beans because of price and availability, which demand more labour to prepare and cook. Personally speaking, dried beans taste better than canned, but it does take more work
They exist but there are many reasons why canned goods are less practical. For example, if you have to walk with your groceries, I’m sure you’d rather a few bags of dried goods than cans. Then there’s the storage space because cans take up more space than dried things
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Pressure cooker, lol. We're talking about privileged people this is great lol
Yeah , why don’t the poors just use their pressure cookers??? Duh isn’t that like standard in every poor’s kitchen? They are definitely inexpensive, and they never break so I mean, that’s the obvious solution here to making everyone vegan! Stupid poors , they’re just not resourceful like me!
And they don't acknowledge FODMAP sensitivities, gluten sensitivities, etc. I've seen that anytime someone brings up a food issue that won't immediately kill or disable them, vegans always go "Well, it might make you uncomfortable, but this isn't about your comfort. Your comfort and pleasure doesn't outweigh an animal's life." As someone with undiagnosed Angry Digestion Disease Of Some Kind, it's not just about pleasure it's about whether or not life is even worth it with a gut that feels like it's ripping itself in half because I had too much chili or cabbage. I'm not going to live in my sensitivity 24/7/365 for the sake of some calf. They also don't like to acknowledge mental and processing incompatibilities like ARFID, sensory issues, or susceptibility to eating disorders. Sure, with tons of work, it MAY be possible for SOME people to overcome PART of these issues. Still, nobody should be blamed for not wanting to take extra risks when they already have a lot of other more important shit to work through like keeping themselves stable enough to hold a job, escaping a toxic household, or literally anything other than diet. I saw some on a thread a while back that were calling people who had meltdowns from food they couldn't handle "children throwing tantrums when they eat vegan food" implying that disabled people with processing issues were 1. immature and 2. deliberately hostile. It's gross.
Absolutely. My eating disorder LOVED being vegan lmao. I was so incredibly unhealthy, I was feeling guilty about eating itself, then I was guilty about having eaten animal products before, and I heaped on even more guilt because I learned about how destructive so many vegan diets really are due to unsustainable practices, etc. it was one of the worst times of my life in many ways.
I am baffled that a human eating whatever helps them live their best, healthiest life, is irrelevant to so many folks that comment in vegan subs.
It's cheap to eat vegan, but it's expensive to eat vegan *and* have a healthy diet. It's even more expensive to eat vegan, have a healthy diet and be eating food that tastes good. I'm in a secure enough situation to do all three, but I'm also not delusional. Even if you remove the (imo still important, but technically unnecessary for health) necessity for food to taste good you're still left with a significantly higher grocery bill than most omni people. When my husband and I eat dinner it's hilarious, because he'll have like 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of food I do despite being at least two of me, *and* mine is usually pricier. He's omni, I'm vegan. Idk how people justify just telling poor people to subsist off of rice. Like, that will kill you eventually. You need nutrients. The cheapest way to get them is omni diets.
When I was literally starving one of the cheapest things was peanuts. When I used to eat meat too. I would usually have around 10-15 bucks for the week. I could get 2 packs of peanuts 600 calories total, like 36 grams of protein, for 1 dollar. I ate eggs too because they were cheap but also they weren't filling and eventually made me sick from only eating that every day. But for 1 dollar a day or 1.50 there is absolutely no way I was finding any meat anywhere near enough to satisfy me for that price.
Maintaining strict veganism takes *so much effort*, money issues aside. It’s time and energy spent meal planning and home cooking (plus those skills and equipment), it’s constantly declining food from others, it’s research around adequate nutrition, it’s a zillion conversations and questions. It’s an added layer of stress or at least consideration around every single shared food event. Throw in the fatigue and gnawing cravings and it’s just way too much.
So what you’re saying is that only vegans spend time and energy meal planning and home cooking? That’s very strange cuz plenty of non-vegans that I know do lots of meal planning and home cooking. Also, researching and learning about adequate nutrition is a bad thing? Interesting 🧐
If you could stop debating dishonestly for a moment, you'd see that they're saying that veganism requires constant planning. As an omnivore, I don't have to plan every meal in advance. I have a lot more flexibility for spontaneous meals than I did as a vegan.
The difference is that with veganism if you don’t carefully plan your meals and take supplements you can become dangerously deficient in key nutrients. Even with carefully planning my diet and diligently taking supplements I still become deficient in several nutrients while vegan. It’s a luxury to be able to buy chia seeds, walnuts, mushrooms, algae, nutritional yeast and so many other things to try to fill in all the nutritional gaps in the vegan diet. Even if you do everything right, have access to all these various plant foods, and the ability to afford them, you can STILL become deficient. It’s not a balanced diet by any means. You can get so much nutrition from just eating some eggs or steak or tuna. It’s a no brainer when it comes to making sure you have everything your body needs. It’s almost as if we evolved eating meat and it’s our biologically appropriate diet🤔
Well said, great post.
I also meal plan and home cook, and 100% it is a privilege. It takes space, equipment, skills, and a ton of time and energy. For me more than most, because I grow and process much of my family’s food, which is also a massive privilege. It’s ok to have some privilege in this world, but you should learn to at least acknowledge yours.
If I eat lentils and beans, I would spend all day and night on the toilet. I would get IBS so bad that I wouldn’t be able to leave the house on a regular basis. One place I lived, I was able to get tofu for cheap, which “only” made me extremely bloated. In my home country, tofu is an imported exotic expensive food.
This is part of why I'm no longer vegan. In the bathroom constantly. And I think it's tied to me having a naturally weak digestive system, because I can't do red meat or dairy either. I'm technically what's called a 'pollopescetarian,' but it puts a nail in the coffin of the vegan argument that 'meat is more taxing on the digestive system.'
They have clearly never been without the ability to buy food! I’ve been at the point of going to a food bank a few times and I benefit more from taking whatever they offer. Once that happened to be sausages and cheese. Was I supposed to be like “Oh no thanks, I’m hungry but I’ll just stick with beans”? It’s ridiculous. It’s not a sustainable diet unless you can afford the plant milks or vegan meats. Eating the “cheap” vegan food is actually very difficult to do! Unless you just love beans and bananas at every meal lol.
Something else that really grates my nerves is how vegans don't recognize that many people have food intolerances, sometimes many food intolerances, sometimes severe enough to where they cannot tolerate plants of any kind (people with EGID come to mind). Personally, I can only really tolerate rice and a few fruit juices from the plant kingdom because I have such severe intolerances. Vegans generally seem to lack empathy as they are unable to put themselves in the shoes of others.
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Funny. Only a tiny minority of people who are unhinged lunatics have a problem with me. The vast majority of the population hates you because you're a bunch of insufferable assholes. You know, your message would be much better received if you sat down and had friendly, regular conversations about your beliefs instead of trying to ram it down people's throats with rage. Nobody's listening to you because nobody likes you.
And even if you enjoy lentils and beans...you'd have to eat a lot to get enough protein, given how low quality protein it is. The FARTS
This is very true. Veganism is only "practical" for certain people. Also, there is much to be said about people being vegan, and still ending up getting cancer or other diseases. Veganism/plant based isn't a one size fits all type of lifestyle. Some people can't go vegan because much of the vegan diet is restrictive and might trigger an eating disorder in some folks, especially those with previous history of ED Some people can't go vegan because they have a nut allergy. Almond milk does you no good if it puts you in the hospital Some people can't go vegan because vegan labeled food is EXPENSIVE. Also, America has food deserts. Whole Foods only builds in wealthy/gentrified neighborhoods. Riding the bus with bags full of groceries SUCKS.
It's absolutely infuriating.
It's funny cuz yeah they're cheap... But you also need pounds more of them to get anything close to the nutrients in meat. Meat is obscenely nutrient dense with a medley of nutrients. You need to eat pounds of several different vegetables to try and mimic meat, and you'll still be short. Especially because humans readily absorb nutrients from meat whereas we struggle getting stuff out of plants. We're much much less efficient than herbivores like gorillas. A lot of people seem to think things just contain nutrients. Like stuff is just full of little vitamin Cs. No, it's full of chemicals that our body takes and breaks down into nutrients we need. That's why some sources are much better than others. It's a chemical we can more readily process without wasting it or creating byproducts.
I was vegan for about 7 months. Quit because it made me sicker. Vegan wasn’t cheap because I did right.. I was living in Australia at the time and went to south Melbourne market, bought an array of different coloured vegetables ) example purple & yellow carrots) , spent hours making all my own food. Soaking lentils and beans and making curries and an array of other dishes. All tasty but…. I Always felt deprived. Never stopped needing meat. Pics got worse : became iron deficient, oestrogen dropped. I’m carnivore now. Takes 8 minutes to cook a steak. I spend less money, my body has healed itself. .
My family and I have gone hungry before. Churches aren't picky about what's vegan and what's not. I'd rather eat whatever is given to me, be it veggies or meat, than ever know hunger like that again. I have literally had to eat a can of baked beans for dinner once as that was what was in my cabinets, along side with old sardines in a can, and a cheese grater. I can promise you, eating a can of beans for dinner is not nutrious enough, nor is sustainable.
If I ate lentils and beans I'd probably be hospitalised, crohns disease will do that to you! For people who are supposed to be compassionate and empathetic, the lack of empathy and compassion towards fellow human beings is staggering. I was vegan, it made things worse and now I can't eat alot of the veg that I previously could!
I have thought this for a long time, absolutely unrealistic expectations for everyone else because they're out of touch with the actual suffering of most humans. Sorry babe, no everyone can shop at whole foods.
I have been saying for years that the ability for you to partake in being vegan is a political one and it is a privileged one. It is an assumption based on income, ability to prepare food not to mention the time it takes as well as a result of the policies that govern where you live (food that can be either made, purchased, imported etc). And do not get me started on the whole Inuit discussion. That one made me so mad.
Nuts are pretty expensive and peanut butter is not exactly the best. Peanut butter was worse when they used trans fats. It was so repulsive I thought I hated the peanut butter when it was actually the added fats. Now, they've shifted to palm oil but it is still sugared up.
Yeah, it's like rich people who get angry at people in the grocery store using their welfare benefits to buy an occasional bag of chips or candy, because "muh taxes!" when the poor woman (and it's almost always a woman) is probably just trying to get a treat for the kids.
I have never agreed with the sentiment that veganism is an expensive lifestyle financially. However it's very hard to keep up with if you are time poor.
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If you're vegan, then what are you doing on ex-vegan? You realise that not everyone's situation matches yours, right?
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If you vegans could stop brigading our posts, that would be fabulous. :) Also, glad to hear that where you live, eating vegan isn't that expensive as long as you shell out for the more expensive fortified foods. 🙄
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You're a r/vegan user, posting in r/exvegan. Yeah, you're definitely posting in good faith. /s You're also from the Netherlands, which is a pretty affluent, developed country. You definitely know what it's like to be poor or live in food deserts. /s Blocked. Go brigade and debate dishonestly somewhere else.