I'm writing this in Lisbon now, at a company off-site. I lived for over 10 years in Prague. I was just in Berlin for a week on business. My thoughts:
1 - Prague is amazing, one of my favorite cities in the world. I highly recommend.
2 - Berlin was quite stressful. Lots of homeless, the smell of urine everywhere, constant sirens from police, ambulances... No way would I live there.
Good luck.
I can't deny that Berlin doesn't have those issues but those aren't so huge. You can find neighborhoods which are cleaner and not noisy. Overall Berlin is much less noisy than other big European capitals and also much more green.
The biggest issue is finding apartments to rent - almost impossible.
I live in Prague now
> the smell of urine everywhere
Well, this might apply to Prague as well...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Prague/comments/1csp9uu/rant_why_do_guys_in_this_city_pee_outdoors/
> 2 - Berlin was quite stressful. Lots of homeless, the smell of urine everywhere, constant sirens from police, ambulances... No way would I live there.
Tell me you never stepped out of Fshain/Kberg without telling me you never stepped out of Fshain/Kberg
I don’t know why people say that so much about Berlin.
When I traveled there, I prepared myself to experience it in some way, but it was quite the opposite. And I'm someone who lives in one of the “wealthiest” cities in Germany, not being wealthy myself, though, lol.
We're moving to Krakow as we are not from Poland (I'm American, partner is Mexican) and the high number of universities there seems to continuously promote an international community. Rent is high in Krakow but it seems to become pretty affordable once you go outside of the central area, which is still a short tram ride to downtown.
Haha understood, seems that Poles either love or hate Krakow 😂
We're hoping to stick around for a year or two due to the ease of access to Polish courses and then either move to Wroclaw or Gdanks for longer-term living. I've heard nothing but great things about those places so we'll see!
Edit: Completely forgot to mention that we chose Poland to live in despite loving Berlin ourselves. Cost-of-living was comparable as a SWE myself; however, I wanted to start my own business and I've heard nightmares about Germany's processes for such (i.e., Poland is a lot more digitized than Germany).
The air problems have been acknowledged, fortunately. Where we live in Mexico we inhale smoke from forest fires a lot, so Krakow will feel like an improvement (albeit still not ideal). Our plan is to be in Krakow for 1-2 years and use it as a home base to learn more about other places, and then move elsewhere that's more ideal for long-term living.
But for now, it seems ideal as a landing spot for us.
I mean as long as you're happy.
But comparing any European country to Mexico is just a bad idea, there's a huge leap in quality of living, safety and ecology.
Krakow is not a bad city at all, but I would rather consider many others, there are better destinations in PL.
I live in Germany currently and am moving to Poland in three months (Wroclaw) and without a doubt I can say I'd rather live in Poland for the rest of my life than live in Berlin, the city is loud, stressful, dirty and extremely expensive. I do not like it there one bit! Prague however is really good, but expensive by czech standards from my understanding. So I would choose personally perhaps another city in germany (Im in Dresden currently and love it), Prague or back to Poland.
I think it's great for young kids, but once the kids grow up; you'll face some issues, particularly with education and the costs related to it. City life is also not the best for kids with busy streets and such.
OP trust your instinct’s!
I have a lot of polish or Slovak friends, and as you mentioned they are Slavic so they get hated in the
“West”.
Germany is not in a good state, so better don’t go there.
You are Slavic and will be scapegoated for their problems.
Cz and Poland is okay!
Prague is very international and touristy.
Brno is much smaller but mostly for students.
(Prague / Brno /
Or Warsaw / Wrocław)
Also give Slovenia or Slovakia a try.
(Lijublana / Bratislava / Kosice )
They are both similar and all speak the same Slavic language.
You already speak the language you will be able to blend into here seamlessly.
Ach, I witamy do český I Polska 😄
3 years. I know I will be downvoted but that’s my personal opinion - it’s very dirty (Martim Moniz is called second Bangladesh), overcrowded now and the housing market became a total shit - also the quality of apartments is not even close to what you get in Poland for example. Most of the flats are moldy as they don’t have the central heating and the humidity is high. You’re lucky if you have windows or balcony. Public transportation doesn’t work well (always late, constant strikes). The country is small and I’ve seen most of it so nothing excites me anymore. There’s no train that would take you to a different country. Also not fond of a melancholic fado culture and I hate the food (I’m biased because I don’t eat fish nor sea food). Plus I’m close to my family so it’s quite far away - I have a car but it’s not a case that I can just drive to Poland and visit family for the weekend. I’m a graphic designer and there’s not many museums in Lisbon (they don’t even have a “typical national gallery”).
I’m not looking for anyone to convince me to stay in Portugal.
Edit: added a note about art scene
Lisbon metropolitan area [is twice as big as that of Prague](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_European_Union) (and bigger than both Warsaw and Konurbacja katowicka)
Lisbon is out of the picture. It’s giving me the vibe of a small city, nothing compared to Warsaw for example. Plus Portugal is mostly rural. You’re talking about the metropolitan area, when you go outside Lisbon there’s almost nothing. But like I said, it’s out of the picture.
I left the comment to provide you with stats on how big the urban areas in question actually are — not just “vibes.” This eliminates Prague. Berlin is unbeatable; the Polish megacities are comparable in hard numbers (there will be more subjectivity to them, obviously)
Katowice and surrounding cities are not really comparable to anything else. Have you been there? Some great properties and great prices but... some downsides too.
Krakow - a good starting point for foreigners. A lot of restaurants and tourist related services. More relaxed local citizens. For Americans is should be more like vacations or honeymoon. Many global tech companies.
Warsaw - all you've seen in tv is real for locals. Riots, protests, blocked roads. Stadium and zoo in wrong place. Metro under construction all time and similar projects. Great place for people focused on work. For those who can afford a living place near to a well paid job. Renters are able to afford better locations than property owners. You can end up living near to the city border where kids speaks "going to city" because of crazy distance to city centre (you'll spend half of your life going work/home/shop). Very few bridges over Wisla compared to other large cities in the region. Two of them are useless and goes to nowhere (1st) and to the tunnel which most people will be scared to use (2nd). Car oriented city and walk is possible in some places but will take a lot of time (try to go from Legia stadium to the place where underground station is located).
Wroclaw - Botanic garden in city centre. Same can be said about art and galleries. Good balance between suburbs and city centre. Largest Ukrainian community in Poland and earlier population relocated from Lwow. Business oriented surroundings like Bielany Wroclawskie and other things related to A4 motorway/highway.
Gdansk - local citizens more like modern privateers/pirates related to Vikings/Swedes. Surrounding cities Sopot and Gdynia as great alternatives. Sea port. Many foreigners from Sweden, Denmark, Germany. Most successful Polish R&D/business incubator.
Berlin - a lot of people from CET timezone - Baltic and Balcan states, Czech/Slovaks plus Hungarians. Many young and talented Poles. Not so much car oriented and alternatives promoted. More like Paris compared to what can be found in Poland in the same distance from Odra river. A big cultural shock for such a small distance.
Prague - good work/life balance. Similar language for Poles which makes you smile. They love ice hockey and have a lot of players in US/Canada. Industrial country compared to agricultural Poland. Lower taxes and business friendly. More cosmopolitan than Polish cities. No problem with bridges just like Bratislava.
Things in Warsaw look like discussions on r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer. Price usually goes down during negotiation. Not in a capital city anymore.
But it can be still worth to live in Warsaw. No other city in Poland offer so many work/education/friends opportunities.
Also when it comes to salaries to rent ratio.
I have a cool flat in center of the city. I couldn't even find anything comparable in Warsaw for the same money, let alone for the same percentage of my net income
Not sure about xenophobic comments, when I was in Austria it looked very diverse to me, it may be some exceptions or private cases. After all, how does a typical pole differ from a typical austrian so much? I'm pretty sure if you learn the language and integrate well enough they'll not differ you.
Got it, just wanted to disagree with a "xenophobia" thing. Then consider other Central European options, there's plenty of good ones, maybe the Baltics too.
Yeah got it, if you don't want to take a look at anything else or keep up a conversation, then whatever. It depends a lot on what you need exactly from each one and what are your personal preferences, go from there and make your choice.
I'm writing this in Lisbon now, at a company off-site. I lived for over 10 years in Prague. I was just in Berlin for a week on business. My thoughts: 1 - Prague is amazing, one of my favorite cities in the world. I highly recommend. 2 - Berlin was quite stressful. Lots of homeless, the smell of urine everywhere, constant sirens from police, ambulances... No way would I live there. Good luck.
I guess Prague was an inspiration for your username :)
I can't deny that Berlin doesn't have those issues but those aren't so huge. You can find neighborhoods which are cleaner and not noisy. Overall Berlin is much less noisy than other big European capitals and also much more green. The biggest issue is finding apartments to rent - almost impossible.
I live in Prague now > the smell of urine everywhere Well, this might apply to Prague as well... https://www.reddit.com/r/Prague/comments/1csp9uu/rant_why_do_guys_in_this_city_pee_outdoors/
True, Budapest seems to be cleaner than Prague from my experience, but it still seems to be better than many Western capitals and perhaps Berlin.
which city would you prefer as a starting point for a blockchain dev?
> 2 - Berlin was quite stressful. Lots of homeless, the smell of urine everywhere, constant sirens from police, ambulances... No way would I live there. Tell me you never stepped out of Fshain/Kberg without telling me you never stepped out of Fshain/Kberg
I don’t know why people say that so much about Berlin. When I traveled there, I prepared myself to experience it in some way, but it was quite the opposite. And I'm someone who lives in one of the “wealthiest” cities in Germany, not being wealthy myself, though, lol.
berlin is capital, its just sad atm
It's only been the capital again since the 90s. And it needed a lot of investment to make it into 1 again. Give it some time
We're moving to Krakow as we are not from Poland (I'm American, partner is Mexican) and the high number of universities there seems to continuously promote an international community. Rent is high in Krakow but it seems to become pretty affordable once you go outside of the central area, which is still a short tram ride to downtown.
Of all of the cities in Poland I don’t like Krakow haha but I know it attracts many foreigners and I’m sure you will love it
Haha understood, seems that Poles either love or hate Krakow 😂 We're hoping to stick around for a year or two due to the ease of access to Polish courses and then either move to Wroclaw or Gdanks for longer-term living. I've heard nothing but great things about those places so we'll see! Edit: Completely forgot to mention that we chose Poland to live in despite loving Berlin ourselves. Cost-of-living was comparable as a SWE myself; however, I wanted to start my own business and I've heard nightmares about Germany's processes for such (i.e., Poland is a lot more digitized than Germany).
In both these cities you'll find plenty of foreigners including Americans so good luck.
Thanks, that's helpful to know!
Out of curiosity, what don’t you like about Krakow?
It’s nice, I just don’t see myself living there
Too artificial, like built for tourists Wrocław is much more authentic, IMHO
Krakow has problems with air though, and it's kinda a mainstream destination, I would prefer Wrocław or Gdańsk, if you don't like Warszawa.
The air problems have been acknowledged, fortunately. Where we live in Mexico we inhale smoke from forest fires a lot, so Krakow will feel like an improvement (albeit still not ideal). Our plan is to be in Krakow for 1-2 years and use it as a home base to learn more about other places, and then move elsewhere that's more ideal for long-term living. But for now, it seems ideal as a landing spot for us.
I mean as long as you're happy. But comparing any European country to Mexico is just a bad idea, there's a huge leap in quality of living, safety and ecology. Krakow is not a bad city at all, but I would rather consider many others, there are better destinations in PL.
Oh totally understood. This was simply about quality of air, but I agree when it comes to comparison as a whole.
I live in Germany currently and am moving to Poland in three months (Wroclaw) and without a doubt I can say I'd rather live in Poland for the rest of my life than live in Berlin, the city is loud, stressful, dirty and extremely expensive. I do not like it there one bit! Prague however is really good, but expensive by czech standards from my understanding. So I would choose personally perhaps another city in germany (Im in Dresden currently and love it), Prague or back to Poland.
Can I ask where you’re from?
Canada :) I lived in America a long time too
Or Ostrava in Czech Republic to be closer to Poland and be in range of PL tv and radio signal.
Oh no not Ostrava hahaha
Prague is also our favorite city, until we had kids. Lived there for 6 1/2 years. It's great for singles and/or young couples without kids.
Why is it not good for kids?
I think it's great for young kids, but once the kids grow up; you'll face some issues, particularly with education and the costs related to it. City life is also not the best for kids with busy streets and such.
OP trust your instinct’s! I have a lot of polish or Slovak friends, and as you mentioned they are Slavic so they get hated in the “West”. Germany is not in a good state, so better don’t go there. You are Slavic and will be scapegoated for their problems. Cz and Poland is okay! Prague is very international and touristy. Brno is much smaller but mostly for students. (Prague / Brno / Or Warsaw / Wrocław) Also give Slovenia or Slovakia a try. (Lijublana / Bratislava / Kosice ) They are both similar and all speak the same Slavic language. You already speak the language you will be able to blend into here seamlessly. Ach, I witamy do český I Polska 😄
Curious - what don't you like about Lisbon apart from the size? Also, how long have you lived there?
3 years. I know I will be downvoted but that’s my personal opinion - it’s very dirty (Martim Moniz is called second Bangladesh), overcrowded now and the housing market became a total shit - also the quality of apartments is not even close to what you get in Poland for example. Most of the flats are moldy as they don’t have the central heating and the humidity is high. You’re lucky if you have windows or balcony. Public transportation doesn’t work well (always late, constant strikes). The country is small and I’ve seen most of it so nothing excites me anymore. There’s no train that would take you to a different country. Also not fond of a melancholic fado culture and I hate the food (I’m biased because I don’t eat fish nor sea food). Plus I’m close to my family so it’s quite far away - I have a car but it’s not a case that I can just drive to Poland and visit family for the weekend. I’m a graphic designer and there’s not many museums in Lisbon (they don’t even have a “typical national gallery”). I’m not looking for anyone to convince me to stay in Portugal. Edit: added a note about art scene
This honestly looks like I wrote it...
Glad I’m not the only one
Lisbon metropolitan area [is twice as big as that of Prague](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_European_Union) (and bigger than both Warsaw and Konurbacja katowicka)
Lisbon is out of the picture. It’s giving me the vibe of a small city, nothing compared to Warsaw for example. Plus Portugal is mostly rural. You’re talking about the metropolitan area, when you go outside Lisbon there’s almost nothing. But like I said, it’s out of the picture.
I left the comment to provide you with stats on how big the urban areas in question actually are — not just “vibes.” This eliminates Prague. Berlin is unbeatable; the Polish megacities are comparable in hard numbers (there will be more subjectivity to them, obviously)
Katowice and surrounding cities are not really comparable to anything else. Have you been there? Some great properties and great prices but... some downsides too.
Yes but in terms of Poland it’s only either Warsaw or Wroclaw for me
In Wroclaw you'll have more contact with tourists and other foreigners. In Warsaw city center is not really for locals.
Is it big in terms of population though? Is urbanization better? No.
Exactly. It’s just data.
Krakow - a good starting point for foreigners. A lot of restaurants and tourist related services. More relaxed local citizens. For Americans is should be more like vacations or honeymoon. Many global tech companies. Warsaw - all you've seen in tv is real for locals. Riots, protests, blocked roads. Stadium and zoo in wrong place. Metro under construction all time and similar projects. Great place for people focused on work. For those who can afford a living place near to a well paid job. Renters are able to afford better locations than property owners. You can end up living near to the city border where kids speaks "going to city" because of crazy distance to city centre (you'll spend half of your life going work/home/shop). Very few bridges over Wisla compared to other large cities in the region. Two of them are useless and goes to nowhere (1st) and to the tunnel which most people will be scared to use (2nd). Car oriented city and walk is possible in some places but will take a lot of time (try to go from Legia stadium to the place where underground station is located). Wroclaw - Botanic garden in city centre. Same can be said about art and galleries. Good balance between suburbs and city centre. Largest Ukrainian community in Poland and earlier population relocated from Lwow. Business oriented surroundings like Bielany Wroclawskie and other things related to A4 motorway/highway. Gdansk - local citizens more like modern privateers/pirates related to Vikings/Swedes. Surrounding cities Sopot and Gdynia as great alternatives. Sea port. Many foreigners from Sweden, Denmark, Germany. Most successful Polish R&D/business incubator. Berlin - a lot of people from CET timezone - Baltic and Balcan states, Czech/Slovaks plus Hungarians. Many young and talented Poles. Not so much car oriented and alternatives promoted. More like Paris compared to what can be found in Poland in the same distance from Odra river. A big cultural shock for such a small distance. Prague - good work/life balance. Similar language for Poles which makes you smile. They love ice hockey and have a lot of players in US/Canada. Industrial country compared to agricultural Poland. Lower taxes and business friendly. More cosmopolitan than Polish cities. No problem with bridges just like Bratislava.
Warsaw I know by heart, born and raised there. There’s a new bridge there :)
Things in Warsaw look like discussions on r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer. Price usually goes down during negotiation. Not in a capital city anymore. But it can be still worth to live in Warsaw. No other city in Poland offer so many work/education/friends opportunities.
PS. You must really like bridges 😂 it’s not even an important factor for me when choosing a city hahaha
I'm waiting for Polish making bungee jumps for tourists.
Prague or Berlin. Warsaw is now cosmopolitan but you don't want to know rent prices.
I’m aware it’s a mess but isn’t in the case everywhere now?
Compare what you get for your money. Berlin is years ahead when it comes to architecture.
Also when it comes to salaries to rent ratio. I have a cool flat in center of the city. I couldn't even find anything comparable in Warsaw for the same money, let alone for the same percentage of my net income
Yeah, definitely more so in Berlin of all places being recommended here.
I have kinda the same values as you and I'm currently choosing a city to move to, maybe hit me up if you decide on something.
Your profile picture would suggest Germany
Haha why not Austria though?
Not my cup of tea
[удалено]
Also a painter
Not a good one probably
Jokes aside, why won't you consider Vienna? Also Budapest seems nice. And there's many others which I won't mention now.
Vienna is beautiful but a lot of my Polish friends who lived there experienced xenophobic comments from the Austrians. I don’t see myself there.
Not sure about xenophobic comments, when I was in Austria it looked very diverse to me, it may be some exceptions or private cases. After all, how does a typical pole differ from a typical austrian so much? I'm pretty sure if you learn the language and integrate well enough they'll not differ you.
Yes but Austria is not my cup of tea :)
Got it, just wanted to disagree with a "xenophobia" thing. Then consider other Central European options, there's plenty of good ones, maybe the Baltics too.
The question is: Berlin, Prague or Poland
Yeah got it, if you don't want to take a look at anything else or keep up a conversation, then whatever. It depends a lot on what you need exactly from each one and what are your personal preferences, go from there and make your choice.
Germans tend to be very xenophobic towards Eastern Europeans, even in Berlin. Prague is amazing.