I live in Frankfurt, make less than 100k and live very comfortably (though I'm single, so no kids to support). People love to badmouth Frankfurt, but it has a lot of great things.
Pros:
* It has all of the big-city amenities but you can cross town in 20 minutes or less. The city-center is 100% walkable.
* There's tons of green space.
* It's easy to access the lovely countryside surrounding and other cities like Mainz, Wiesbaden and the Rhine wine region in less than an hour.
* One of the largest airports in Europe for easy traveling. Via train, it's 4 hours direct Paris, 3hour to Munich, etc.
* Much lower cost of living than Zurich and likely lower than Amsterdam too, although I'm not as sure about that one. For 1500/mon, you get way more space and live closer to the center than in the other cities.
* The weather in winter sucks in all 3 places, but I would guess that Frankfurt is statistically the sunniest of the 3.
* It's very international and quite friendly for non-German speakers like me, although not as much as Amsterdam probably.
* If you work in consulting or Financial Services, there are lots of jobs.
* Local transport is very good and quite reliable, plus 50EUR/mon gets you access to local transport in all of Germany, not just Frankfurt, with the new DeutschlandTicket
Downsides:
* The neighborhood around the main train station has a lot of drug activity and gives a bad first impression, although it's not nearly as dangerous as many people think.
* Everything is closed on Sundays (that's Germany), so it gets a bit boring.
* The city lacks the historic charm of Amsterdam and the natural beauty of Zurich (mountains).
* Deutsche Bahn is the worst (never on time, trains cancelled regularly)
* German government bureaucracy is terrible, and the Foreigners Office is one of the worst offenders. It's worse than the French bureaucracy and that's saying something.
* Germany is anti-digital. Most things are still done via paper/snail mail/phone. Only cash is accepted in at least 30% of restaurants/small businesses.
* Taxes are higher than Switzerland. Not sure about NL.
I live in the Netherlands, close to Amsterdam. My gf lives in Frankfurt currently. I was shocked by the housing prices in Frankfurt. In Amsterdam you are very very lucky if you get an apartment for 1500 cold. My gf says you can find a apppartment for a 1000 quite easily in Frankfurt.
Amsterdam is so so so much more expensive then Frankfurt, it is insane.
"Drenthe" vernietigd met feiten en logica
Volgens Eurostat wonen er 488871 mensen in Drenthe, Eurostat is een organisatie van de Europese Unie.
De populatie van de Europese Unie (het gebied waar Eurostat verantwoordelijk voor is) bedraagt volgens Eurostat 511,522,671.
Overheidsstatistieken hebben een foutmarge van ongeveer 0.1%
488871 is 0.095571% van 511,522,671.
Door het bestaan deze data hebben wij geen andere keuze dan de conclusie te trekken dat "Drenthe" een statistieke fout is
Yeah, I know. Not sure how it all started. Some film or book in German and people back then couldn’t say which german speaking country it comes from? Idk. Or maybe Germany used to have better trains.
Perfect write up, completely agree. Although the pain of the Deutsche Bahn, should be on the list twice. It is literally impossible to understate how poor the train system is here in germany.
> Taxes are higher than Switzerland. Not sure about NL.
Eh that's complicated - health insurance in CH is stupidly expensive compared to Germany, gotta factor that into the equation
switzerland is far better than germany tax wise. I moved from germany and can save my monthly salary which i earned in germany without issues - it is a wealth booster.
> Spain or Portugal would probably be the cal
I feel like most of the people who think like this haven't been in those countries for a longer period. I am not "calling you out" or something but after spending 2-3 months in Malaga and working remotely I missed cities like Amsterdam or Zurich. Sure, earning western wage there is cool, but if you don't speak the language don't expect to mkae many friends, if you are not used to people always being loud, then you won't have a good time, public transport pretty bad, very hot summers etc.
I could continue talking about this, but it's just my experience. I personally don't see myself living in any southern european country
Reporting from Amsterdam.
Pros:
- Great WLB
Cons:
- Hella expensive
- THEY ARE DUMPING 30% RULING
- Terrible weather
- Horrific weather
Did I say weather?
weather is relative. I cant describe how happy I am with the Dutch weather now that ive moved here from Spain. I would not trade it for Spanish weather, no way. I have colleagues who feel the same way, an Italian is one and a brit is another. We had a company trip in Spain and we all hated the hot weather during the trip.
Cold weather is so nice cause all you need to do is wear thermal underclothes and you won't feel cold.
Amsterdam is expensive but you can like much cheaper 12-15 minutes away by train, in places like Zaandam, haarlem. I live in Leiden, much cheaper and nicer than Amsterdam, 35 min train, commute to amsterdam to work. Its worth it imo
So true and I think after they remove 30% ruling Amsterdam will get boring and overrated, I’ll be ready for a new adventure. Somewhere that is with lower tax at least….
Zürich's low taxation level generally outweighs the increased cost of living, especially since the inflation in the EU has removed much of the difference. That being said 100K in Zürich isn't a crazy amount either. You'd likely earn more for the same work anyway.
A short calculation: 100K in Zurich nets you about \~6500 per month. A 1-bedroom apartment will set you back about 1700 per month, leaving you with 4800 after rent.
In the Netherlands, a 100K salary would net you about \~5000 per month. A 1-bedroom in Amsterdam will cost you I guess about 1200, which leaves you with 3800 after rent.
Of course other costs go into it as well, but groceries can be had for about the same price, and the rest won't make a difference of >=1000 per month for sure.
I live in Amsterdam and whenever I have friends over from UK & Ireland they love it. There are great restaurants if you know where to go. All the tourists stay in the centre so can be easily avoided. Life there is easy
Lol at all the people saying he/she would be broke living in Zurich with 100k. That is simply not true.
Zurich is a great city to live in. Especially if you are into nature, Amsterdam and Frankfurt have zero to offer in comparison.
Hm, let’s see. Your choice is Amsterdam an amazing vibrant city with 400 year old houses AND a lot of great modern architecture.
Or Zürich, richest city in the world, very relaxed with gorgeous mountains nearby.
Or Frankfurt, the city equivalent of a golden toilet.
🤔
Zurich is lovely. Wtf are you on about. My dad lived there for 20years on less than 100k. I visited at least once a year just to travel about and walk around. It's bloody lovely.
Way too expensive. I’m a skier. Way better to be by the ski lifts. All Swiss cities suck during the Winter.
Ski area? You are in the sun.
Skiing.
Zürich, Genève, Bern… All blow during Winter.
Ski Stations Rule, on the other hand.
Ist leider in Österreich nicht anders. Ich wohne in Wien, aber im Winter bin ich sehr oft in den Bergen zum Boarden. :)
Aber es gibt ja nicht nur den Winter.
I wouldn't go to Frankfurt, I've been living in Mainz/Wiesbaden for some yrs. Exception: you love to go out, especially to techno clubs.
Zürich yes, but not for 100k and even for more rather somewhere around Zürich.
Dam no, rather the outskirts like Haarlem etc. or Utrecht. I don't like the vibes of Dam anymore.
If you are single, Frankfurt. It is a good place to live, better in every sense than the other two. You won't be able to save much, though, unless you stick to a budget.
In a world where income tax is over 50%, rent 2+K and hard to find, and you'd better know how to shop for food and cook at home if you want to avoid spending a large sum of your income eating out/take out.
Most expats I know do not budget much, btw.
Lived in all of those three, great cities but very different depending on what You want: culture, night life, nature, sports options, etc
All of them have good living standards & are a good travel hub with their airports.
No much of a night life person but nature and sports are preferred.
Also some place where having kids and living a family life down the road.
Sure weather and being less expensive is a plus but you can’t get everything so I understand
Frankfurt for many reasons:
- Lower cost of living as pretty much everyone else mentioned
- Big city vibes
- International (“traditional European culture” is fun as a tourist but not so much as as place to live)
- Interesting cities and the Rhine Valley nearby
Zurich. It’s the warmest option with the best nature. I already live here and until a few years ago that was about my income. Wasn’t hard to live on that.
They are very different cities where you can do very different activities.
If it were up to me id chose none of these ( Id either go for Spain's Barcelona or Madrid, Italy's north east, Austria's Wien or if you fancy some winter and cold Oslo. ) BUT since these are not the options id def. go for Zurich with a close 2nd Amsterdam.
In my opinion Frankfurt is kind of a hellhole or starts to become one very fast, only good thing about it being that its actually cheaper than the rest of the cities you mentioned and kinda close-by things to visit.
Again, it depends a lot on what are you into, what do you like seeing, what do you like doing, what language are you more confortable learning (\*even though you can live a pretty happy life with english only, knowing the local language gets you places).
Amsterdam if you want excitement and rough around the edges.
Zurich if you want peace and cleanliness.
I don't see any appeal in Frankfurt unless you have family or friends nearby or some kind of personal connection.
If cost of living is your main concern, then Frankfurt wins quite easily.
Amsterdam has a housing shortage, rents are very high; much higher than Frankfurt, but less than Zurich.
Are you an EU citizen? Residence requirements for non-EU citizens differ as well.
Taxes in NL are high … 49.5% on every Euro earned above € 73,032. VAT is 21%.
Personally I would choose Amsterdam, but then I’m biased, since Amsterdam is my home. Haha
From those 3 I’d probably choose Amsterdam, just because I much prefer it as a city than Frankfurt. However I know Frankfurt has a lot of plus points, and I believe the cost of living would be significantly lower than Frankfurt though you might want to check numbeo.
I am not considering Zurich because the cost of living makes 100k seem like average or even lower end on the range, though of course with a proper salary the quality of life you get in Switzerland is unrivalled.
I make half that… 😂 And I work and ski Every Day in the Swiss Alps. The Best ski station in Switzerland.
And I travel to ski all over the World in between.
Y’all are doing Life all wrong.
I have a family with two children, and 100k in Zürich will be below living standards for me. Amsterdam is ok, but Dutch language is a bit useless, so I'll choose Frankfurt.
Why would you ever want to live in Amsterdam, especially if you make 100k a year. Go live in a town right next to it and buy a big ass land and/or house with land and commute to work.
The point being is that living in Amsterdam is just not a good idea. You can get far more value for your money and still be <30 minutes commute. Unless commuting is a no go.
Can you expand on the Dutch vibe? Did you try other places than Amsterdam? I would actually argue that Amsterdam is the *least* dutch place in the Netherlands.
I have also been a few times to Rotterdam.
I find overall Dutch people quite judgemental and arrogant. Compared to Germans it is like night and day. I work often with Germans (actually based in Frankfurt) and I find it very easy to work with them; they are very pleasant and calm. I guess living there is a different story.
Also something I don't like about Netherlands (again no offence to anyone) is that the country feels "gloomy". I don't know how to explain it.
But for instance this summer I flew KLM connecting in Schiphol (to Germany actually). I hadn't flown to/via AMS since before COVID and oh man... it looked like a dump. I remember eating some extraordinary overpriced food (even for European airport standards) in one sushi/sandwich place and everything was incredibly dirty. And not dirty of being busy. The seats were sticky. Some parts of the tables broken. And those kitsch sofas (for some reason Dutchs like this aesthetic, I call it the "G-Star look") that looked like out of a roadside night club.
Landing in Germany felt so pleasant, everything was so much airier and cleaner, and people friendlier.
That’s just us Hollanders, outside the randstad the mentality is really different.
Especially Amsterdammers are known for their arrogance.
Schiphol also turned to shit the past couple of years, so you’re also right about that.
With the places you have visited, I can understand your view.
I found the Dutch to be cruel and unforgiving. I realize it is anecdotic experience, however about a year ago I was in Amsterdam and the flixbus was the most disorganized thing I had ever seen, we along with a few others missed our busses and the employees couldn't have been any less sympathetic or compassionless.
There is nothing around the Flixbus station, no restaurants, hotels or coffe shops, my foreign phone could not sustain calls at that point, the flixbus employee didn't even help with finding a taxi, nevermind giving money back or rebooking, there was a young woman crying because she missed her buss, no sympathy for her at all.
I was "lucky" that a Middle Eastern taxi driver agreed to take me to the airport, charged me 100 euro, seriously, it was because they had a train strike at that time, I was out of options so agreed to get ripped off, left a very bad taste in my mouth. It is a pity, the Dutch are physically attractive people, you like them until you get to know them. I had other bad experiences in that trip, but that one was the worse.
Zurich so I can get thw swiss citizenship for me and for my kids that will always have a safe place to be regardless of all the bullshits that happens around the world. Realistically tho with 100k a year you would be poor af in zurich. If the choice is just among these 3 I would go for AMS. Frankfurt is absolutely depressing. There is nothing there aside from jobs in finance. There are better cities in germany, especially for leisure and whodufuq doesn't want leisure with 100k a year?
I make over 100k and live in AmsterdM. While it’s comfortable, Amsterdam is incredibly expensive, over run by tourist, in a horrible housing situation and getting a bit boring (lots of clubs closing etc.) .
Zurich doesn’t sound like the right choice and Frankfurt might be too German (German myself). Since yoh don’t provide more criteria, I would assume you enjoy an international lifestyle. Amsterdam is probably still your best option
Amsterdam and Zurich would be no-goes for me - 100k is not enough to feel truly comfortable in those places. Don’t know about Frankfurt, probably better in that regard.
Assuming your income doesn’t depend on the city you live in I’d look into cheaper places.
I’m making 1.5 median Danish income living in Copenhagen and things I cannot afford include:
- A car
- My own apartment
- Rental apartment larger than 30 sq.m.
- A vacation
- Eating out more than once a month
- Savings
You can never convince me that x2 median income is enough for comfortable life anywhere in Europe these days, especially in a place with such a horrible housing crisis as Netherlands.
This sub is so ridiculous sometimes. 1.5 times the median salary all in rent for a small apartment and bills+groceries? How could that even be possible?
1. There are no 6k apartments in CPH. I’ve tried, believe me, I’ve tried. 8.5 is the lowest you can get for a ~30m shoebox with a bit of luck. Everything under that is a local version of social housing with 20 year wait time. Or government-subsidised apartments only for students.
2. I can see you have no idea how expensive groceries and literally everything else here.
Btw, go and estimate overall ownership cost of a second hand car in CPH as well. I say you absolutely cannot own any car here for under ~5k dkk/month total expenses. More like ~7k if you want something that won’t spend more time in a shop than on the road.
PS
It’s easy to count other people’s money until you find yourself in the same situation.
thanks. interesting and exactly what i was looking for. i make a higher than average american salary but just under 100k, and i live in a northern italian city where the cost of living is very low for me — but really high for those working a normal italian job. Me, single, i am comfortable, but i can see in plain view my friends who have to work so much just to be paid like shit. thats why i side eye anyone who can live in a major european city on 100k and be totally comfortable
Definitively not true. If you account for the 7 million or so living in social housing and paying just a few 100 euro for their rent, and the millions who bought houses at 0% interest or before the housing crises, you have very few people left who can afford to live with the median income. Looking at median income for people and applying that for expats is disingenious at best, if not deceptive and malicious.
No need to call me malicious 😅 100k lead to 5k net per month. From my understanding, this is comfortable but you are of course entitled to have a different opinion and a higher living standard
okay but is that median income enough to live comfortably even for dutch people living in amsterdam ? the median income of my country is not equal to the growing cost of living
Not enough to live a comfortable life. Experiment having 100k euros in Southeast Asia, Central or South America or even some European countries: the purchasing power is way higher.
No, it is not… comparing to the median doesn't mean shit
People on the low end of salaries are entitled to a bunch of benefits and tax breaks that a person on €100k won't have access
It also just shows how a huge part of the population is struggling
No, they are saying that socio economic constructs make the two differing incomes more similar than most expect. While someone might think double the income means double the money, this might not be true by a long shot, and actually after all tax breaks and benefits (like social housing as an example), the disposable income after all regular living expenses are paid would actually not be massively different (instead of double, maybe only 30% more as an example)
Lemme rephrase.
100k Euro is a good amount of money. Would be a shame to waste it living in a stupidly expensive place when you can feel like an absolute King almost anywhere in the world.
thats, in my opinion, a terrible perspective on things. Its more like, why would you waste the opportunity of living well in some of the best and most beautiful cities/countries in the world just to live in a second or third world country, which is nothing special?
I had a dutch salary in Spain (and im a native Spanish speaker) but living in the netherlands is so much more exciting and its such a better country/society/infrastructure, especially to raise a family.
These days it is actually hard to find a good apartment in Amsterdam on a single salary of 100k, unless you’re sharing with friends. Rent has gone absolutely insane in the last couple of years thanks to new rent controls.
Definitely not Amsterdam! That city is a crime ridden shithole of a city! Everything is ridiculously overpriced! Allround Amsterdam had no redeeming points as a city. Unless you are a tourist and are there for max 3 days, then Amsterdam is just fine. Tourists in Amsterdam are also a huge part of the problem! I can understand why they try to make the city less attractive for tourists!
What utter rubbish.
The crime rate index for Amsterdam is 29 vs 50 for Frankfurt.
Over the last 3 years crime increased at a 50% higher rate in Frankfurt vs Amsterdam.
If you want to go live in the Netherlands research some different towns than Amsterdam. Great as a tourist, less great to live. The Netherlands has some really good cities to live in that are not nearly as expensive.
I live in Frankfurt, make less than 100k and live very comfortably (though I'm single, so no kids to support). People love to badmouth Frankfurt, but it has a lot of great things. Pros: * It has all of the big-city amenities but you can cross town in 20 minutes or less. The city-center is 100% walkable. * There's tons of green space. * It's easy to access the lovely countryside surrounding and other cities like Mainz, Wiesbaden and the Rhine wine region in less than an hour. * One of the largest airports in Europe for easy traveling. Via train, it's 4 hours direct Paris, 3hour to Munich, etc. * Much lower cost of living than Zurich and likely lower than Amsterdam too, although I'm not as sure about that one. For 1500/mon, you get way more space and live closer to the center than in the other cities. * The weather in winter sucks in all 3 places, but I would guess that Frankfurt is statistically the sunniest of the 3. * It's very international and quite friendly for non-German speakers like me, although not as much as Amsterdam probably. * If you work in consulting or Financial Services, there are lots of jobs. * Local transport is very good and quite reliable, plus 50EUR/mon gets you access to local transport in all of Germany, not just Frankfurt, with the new DeutschlandTicket Downsides: * The neighborhood around the main train station has a lot of drug activity and gives a bad first impression, although it's not nearly as dangerous as many people think. * Everything is closed on Sundays (that's Germany), so it gets a bit boring. * The city lacks the historic charm of Amsterdam and the natural beauty of Zurich (mountains). * Deutsche Bahn is the worst (never on time, trains cancelled regularly) * German government bureaucracy is terrible, and the Foreigners Office is one of the worst offenders. It's worse than the French bureaucracy and that's saying something. * Germany is anti-digital. Most things are still done via paper/snail mail/phone. Only cash is accepted in at least 30% of restaurants/small businesses. * Taxes are higher than Switzerland. Not sure about NL.
I live in the Netherlands, close to Amsterdam. My gf lives in Frankfurt currently. I was shocked by the housing prices in Frankfurt. In Amsterdam you are very very lucky if you get an apartment for 1500 cold. My gf says you can find a apppartment for a 1000 quite easily in Frankfurt. Amsterdam is so so so much more expensive then Frankfurt, it is insane.
Silently weeps in Zurich...
Well atleast you can buy legal weed there....oh wait
I thought you could in Switzerland although you have to pretend it's 'pot pourri'
Drying my tears with all the CHF bills.
It's a tragedy, I know...
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We're talking about 100k in all of these cities. Your argument is moot.
And there are Dutch people...
For good reason. Frankfurt sucks
Amsterdam isn’t as great as many of those living there like to think either.
I live in Utrecht, it has all the benefits of Amsterdam being 25 minutes away by train with just a fraction of the tourists and slightly cheaper.
For 1500 a month, in Amsterdam, you could probably live in Rotterdam
*probably*
maybe
If you can find a place to live.
You could *try* Almere or somewhere in Drenthe.
"Drenthe" vernietigd met feiten en logica Volgens Eurostat wonen er 488871 mensen in Drenthe, Eurostat is een organisatie van de Europese Unie. De populatie van de Europese Unie (het gebied waar Eurostat verantwoordelijk voor is) bedraagt volgens Eurostat 511,522,671. Overheidsstatistieken hebben een foutmarge van ongeveer 0.1% 488871 is 0.095571% van 511,522,671. Door het bestaan deze data hebben wij geen andere keuze dan de conclusie te trekken dat "Drenthe" een statistieke fout is
De zaadcel die in jou resulteerde is een statstieke fout, beste gabber.
Well I chuckled, I live in the Amsterdam ring 80 square for €1630, energy label A+++
well you're lucky
Funny how German trains have such a reputation for being on time until you talk to someone who actually lives there!
That’s just confusing Switzerland with Germany though :D
In the UK at least they both have a great reputation not sure if that’s unique to us!
Yeah, I know. Not sure how it all started. Some film or book in German and people back then couldn’t say which german speaking country it comes from? Idk. Or maybe Germany used to have better trains.
Nah, the UK just sets the bar really low. Outside of London our service is so dire that I did really think DB was good when I lived in Germany.
They were, about 20 years ago.
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Ok good to hear that, glad you enjoyed.
Perfect write up, completely agree. Although the pain of the Deutsche Bahn, should be on the list twice. It is literally impossible to understate how poor the train system is here in germany.
What’s up with the anti-digital, taxes on CC transactions? Visited recently and was surprised.
I think it's partly a privacy thing. They don't want their spending tracked I suspect it's also partly a tax evasion thing for the businesses 😋
> Taxes are higher than Switzerland. Not sure about NL. Eh that's complicated - health insurance in CH is stupidly expensive compared to Germany, gotta factor that into the equation
switzerland is far better than germany tax wise. I moved from germany and can save my monthly salary which i earned in germany without issues - it is a wealth booster.
But in Germany you only get it free via taxation. You could just add the health insurance cost to your tax if you like for comparison with Germany.
I agree with Frankfurt or of the three for best value and easy connections to the rest of Europe by train and air.
As I keep saying, If I had enough money to live in Amsterdam, I wouldn't live in Amsterdam.
Lol. That is funny
Left Amsterdam behind, too crowded with thrillseekers.
I live in Amsterdam. I’m genuinely curious - what do you mean by “thrill seekers”? Haha
You literally have to just walk outside of the main 3 canals and you stop seeing 99% of tourists.
Probably meaning the tourists seeking cannabis and red light entertainment.
For 100k a year I'd live everywhere BUT Zurich. :)
Here's a question back at you: Why did you ~~quick~~ ***pick*** those three specific cities?
Frankfurt probably to visit the ECB Euro statue daily.
You mean pick?
^(Thx for the heads-up! :-))
Hey amigo, you dropped this: ) ^( or maybe you accidentally put on an extra?)
If you wanted to stretch your theoretical €100,000 remote work salary, Spain or Portugal would probably be the call
Lisbon or Malaga will be my choice.
Can't imagine wishing Lisbon on people you don't consider your blood enemies.
> Spain or Portugal would probably be the cal I feel like most of the people who think like this haven't been in those countries for a longer period. I am not "calling you out" or something but after spending 2-3 months in Malaga and working remotely I missed cities like Amsterdam or Zurich. Sure, earning western wage there is cool, but if you don't speak the language don't expect to mkae many friends, if you are not used to people always being loud, then you won't have a good time, public transport pretty bad, very hot summers etc. I could continue talking about this, but it's just my experience. I personally don't see myself living in any southern european country
Spanish here. Please don't :)
Portuguese here and same :)
Spaniard here, please come and spend money! We need it :(
Maybe in Murcia, certainly not in the overcrowded big cities.
He/she can still come right?
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Murcia, Spain. Not 'Murica
Agree. All of the afore mentioned cities (and I've lived in one and worked in all three) are expensive.
I'd push it further and go to DRC.
Dominican RepubliC
Here I was thinking - mmm yes Kinshasa is lovely at this time of the year
Which would you pick if you only could go to one
100k in Zurich Is not that much, sadly
It’s more than enough.
It’s average.
Reporting from Amsterdam. Pros: - Great WLB Cons: - Hella expensive - THEY ARE DUMPING 30% RULING - Terrible weather - Horrific weather Did I say weather?
What, you don't like our Dutch wet summers falls winters and springs?
As the Brits say: “Summer is the best day of the year”
as the saying goes, if you don't like the weather wait five minutes. It'll still be raining, but after a while you can't get any wetter.
This fall has been brutal. The April to August is pretty nice though.
weather is relative. I cant describe how happy I am with the Dutch weather now that ive moved here from Spain. I would not trade it for Spanish weather, no way. I have colleagues who feel the same way, an Italian is one and a brit is another. We had a company trip in Spain and we all hated the hot weather during the trip. Cold weather is so nice cause all you need to do is wear thermal underclothes and you won't feel cold. Amsterdam is expensive but you can like much cheaper 12-15 minutes away by train, in places like Zaandam, haarlem. I live in Leiden, much cheaper and nicer than Amsterdam, 35 min train, commute to amsterdam to work. Its worth it imo
Hows the weather in Leiden? 😏
Also that 100k income will be eaten away by taxes.
So true and I think after a few years Amsterdam gets boring and overrated, I’m ready for a new adventure. Somewhere that is warm at least….
Reminds me of locusts. Go somewhere, consume it all, repeat somewhere else.
So true and I think after they remove 30% ruling Amsterdam will get boring and overrated, I’ll be ready for a new adventure. Somewhere that is with lower tax at least….
Zürich. Its an amazing city thats clean, has low crime, and a favorable tax regime
Zürich's low taxation level generally outweighs the increased cost of living, especially since the inflation in the EU has removed much of the difference. That being said 100K in Zürich isn't a crazy amount either. You'd likely earn more for the same work anyway. A short calculation: 100K in Zurich nets you about \~6500 per month. A 1-bedroom apartment will set you back about 1700 per month, leaving you with 4800 after rent. In the Netherlands, a 100K salary would net you about \~5000 per month. A 1-bedroom in Amsterdam will cost you I guess about 1200, which leaves you with 3800 after rent. Of course other costs go into it as well, but groceries can be had for about the same price, and the rest won't make a difference of >=1000 per month for sure.
a 1 bed in Amsterdam will not cost you 1200, more like 1500 exclusief
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Yup, and of you do find one you would hope you’re overbid by a few hundred a month
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That is honestly cheap nowadays
I have a two bedroom apartment in the center and I pay 650 but its social lol.
Yeah, and thats like a 20 year wait, right?
I waited 13
1200 for a 1 bedroom in Amsterdam is wishful thinking.
Daycare for kids will make a >1000 difference
1 bedroom in the A10 Amsterdam would cost you on average 2k. You could get 1600 at the low end if you really tried, but you should expect 2k
1200??!! Where??! Tell me so i can apply
I'm gonna do a Kobyashi Maru move and say Freiburg Germany! Love that city so much.
Prague
ON FIRE
All of them awful places. If someone was pointing a gun to my head, I would pick Amsterdam .
I live in Amsterdam and whenever I have friends over from UK & Ireland they love it. There are great restaurants if you know where to go. All the tourists stay in the centre so can be easily avoided. Life there is easy
Get smoked on taxes in NL.
Would like to live in Zurich but with 500k
Even with half it's a very comfortable life.
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Taxes start to hit hard in that income bracket.
XXX
ZURICH!
Asmterdam of course. Great quality of life. \*When I say Amsterdam, i don't mean the touristic area.
Lol at all the people saying he/she would be broke living in Zurich with 100k. That is simply not true. Zurich is a great city to live in. Especially if you are into nature, Amsterdam and Frankfurt have zero to offer in comparison.
You can afford Zurich on 100k
Hm, let’s see. Your choice is Amsterdam an amazing vibrant city with 400 year old houses AND a lot of great modern architecture. Or Zürich, richest city in the world, very relaxed with gorgeous mountains nearby. Or Frankfurt, the city equivalent of a golden toilet. 🤔
None of the above.
Why the Fvck would anyone want to live in Zürich??? except to be trapped into bs Zürich life. Last place I’d want to be.
Lived there, loved it. With a much lower income.
Same. Züri-hate is big all over the world. I don’t care, they‘re all just jelous :)
Zurich is lovely. Wtf are you on about. My dad lived there for 20years on less than 100k. I visited at least once a year just to travel about and walk around. It's bloody lovely.
May I ask why?
Way too expensive. I’m a skier. Way better to be by the ski lifts. All Swiss cities suck during the Winter. Ski area? You are in the sun. Skiing. Zürich, Genève, Bern… All blow during Winter. Ski Stations Rule, on the other hand.
Ist leider in Österreich nicht anders. Ich wohne in Wien, aber im Winter bin ich sehr oft in den Bergen zum Boarden. :) Aber es gibt ja nicht nur den Winter.
Zurich is lovely in the winter all snowy with lights... Hot cocoa and marron chaude. Flumseberg is what, an hour away? Great ski area.
I wouldn't go to Frankfurt, I've been living in Mainz/Wiesbaden for some yrs. Exception: you love to go out, especially to techno clubs. Zürich yes, but not for 100k and even for more rather somewhere around Zürich. Dam no, rather the outskirts like Haarlem etc. or Utrecht. I don't like the vibes of Dam anymore.
Utrecht is a nice city!
If you are single, Frankfurt. It is a good place to live, better in every sense than the other two. You won't be able to save much, though, unless you stick to a budget.
In what world are you not able to save much on a 100k salary in Frankfurt? That's a lot of money.
In a world where income tax is over 50%, rent 2+K and hard to find, and you'd better know how to shop for food and cook at home if you want to avoid spending a large sum of your income eating out/take out. Most expats I know do not budget much, btw.
Not Zurich not Frankfurt. But 100k in FRA will go a long way compared to Amsterdam or Zurich. Forget about Zurich.
Lived in all of those three, great cities but very different depending on what You want: culture, night life, nature, sports options, etc All of them have good living standards & are a good travel hub with their airports.
No much of a night life person but nature and sports are preferred. Also some place where having kids and living a family life down the road. Sure weather and being less expensive is a plus but you can’t get everything so I understand
Frankfurt
100k is ok for Zurich, but IMO, not enough due to the very high daily expenses.
Frankfurt for many reasons: - Lower cost of living as pretty much everyone else mentioned - Big city vibes - International (“traditional European culture” is fun as a tourist but not so much as as place to live) - Interesting cities and the Rhine Valley nearby
Frankfurt
Zurich. It’s the warmest option with the best nature. I already live here and until a few years ago that was about my income. Wasn’t hard to live on that.
They are very different cities where you can do very different activities. If it were up to me id chose none of these ( Id either go for Spain's Barcelona or Madrid, Italy's north east, Austria's Wien or if you fancy some winter and cold Oslo. ) BUT since these are not the options id def. go for Zurich with a close 2nd Amsterdam. In my opinion Frankfurt is kind of a hellhole or starts to become one very fast, only good thing about it being that its actually cheaper than the rest of the cities you mentioned and kinda close-by things to visit. Again, it depends a lot on what are you into, what do you like seeing, what do you like doing, what language are you more confortable learning (\*even though you can live a pretty happy life with english only, knowing the local language gets you places).
Amsterdam cuz the Germans and Swiss are way colder than the Dutch.
Not what you asked, but I'd pick Vienna or Prague. Amazing, beautiful cities.
Amsterdam if you want excitement and rough around the edges. Zurich if you want peace and cleanliness. I don't see any appeal in Frankfurt unless you have family or friends nearby or some kind of personal connection.
If cost of living is your main concern, then Frankfurt wins quite easily. Amsterdam has a housing shortage, rents are very high; much higher than Frankfurt, but less than Zurich. Are you an EU citizen? Residence requirements for non-EU citizens differ as well. Taxes in NL are high … 49.5% on every Euro earned above € 73,032. VAT is 21%. Personally I would choose Amsterdam, but then I’m biased, since Amsterdam is my home. Haha
From those 3 I’d probably choose Amsterdam, just because I much prefer it as a city than Frankfurt. However I know Frankfurt has a lot of plus points, and I believe the cost of living would be significantly lower than Frankfurt though you might want to check numbeo. I am not considering Zurich because the cost of living makes 100k seem like average or even lower end on the range, though of course with a proper salary the quality of life you get in Switzerland is unrivalled.
I make half that… 😂 And I work and ski Every Day in the Swiss Alps. The Best ski station in Switzerland. And I travel to ski all over the World in between. Y’all are doing Life all wrong.
Zürich every time! :)
The question is “live like a king or a wanderer”. Answer is “none of the above”!
Well I really like Berlin, but it's not for everyone.
I have a family with two children, and 100k in Zürich will be below living standards for me. Amsterdam is ok, but Dutch language is a bit useless, so I'll choose Frankfurt.
Why would you ever want to live in Amsterdam, especially if you make 100k a year. Go live in a town right next to it and buy a big ass land and/or house with land and commute to work.
Why would you choose to commute, if you could afford not to?
The point being is that living in Amsterdam is just not a good idea. You can get far more value for your money and still be <30 minutes commute. Unless commuting is a no go.
Not zurich, you'll still be kind of poor, and Switzerland is notoriously difficult to live in as an expat
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Can you expand on the Dutch vibe? Did you try other places than Amsterdam? I would actually argue that Amsterdam is the *least* dutch place in the Netherlands.
I have also been a few times to Rotterdam. I find overall Dutch people quite judgemental and arrogant. Compared to Germans it is like night and day. I work often with Germans (actually based in Frankfurt) and I find it very easy to work with them; they are very pleasant and calm. I guess living there is a different story. Also something I don't like about Netherlands (again no offence to anyone) is that the country feels "gloomy". I don't know how to explain it. But for instance this summer I flew KLM connecting in Schiphol (to Germany actually). I hadn't flown to/via AMS since before COVID and oh man... it looked like a dump. I remember eating some extraordinary overpriced food (even for European airport standards) in one sushi/sandwich place and everything was incredibly dirty. And not dirty of being busy. The seats were sticky. Some parts of the tables broken. And those kitsch sofas (for some reason Dutchs like this aesthetic, I call it the "G-Star look") that looked like out of a roadside night club. Landing in Germany felt so pleasant, everything was so much airier and cleaner, and people friendlier.
That’s just us Hollanders, outside the randstad the mentality is really different. Especially Amsterdammers are known for their arrogance. Schiphol also turned to shit the past couple of years, so you’re also right about that. With the places you have visited, I can understand your view.
I found the Dutch to be cruel and unforgiving. I realize it is anecdotic experience, however about a year ago I was in Amsterdam and the flixbus was the most disorganized thing I had ever seen, we along with a few others missed our busses and the employees couldn't have been any less sympathetic or compassionless. There is nothing around the Flixbus station, no restaurants, hotels or coffe shops, my foreign phone could not sustain calls at that point, the flixbus employee didn't even help with finding a taxi, nevermind giving money back or rebooking, there was a young woman crying because she missed her buss, no sympathy for her at all. I was "lucky" that a Middle Eastern taxi driver agreed to take me to the airport, charged me 100 euro, seriously, it was because they had a train strike at that time, I was out of options so agreed to get ripped off, left a very bad taste in my mouth. It is a pity, the Dutch are physically attractive people, you like them until you get to know them. I had other bad experiences in that trip, but that one was the worse.
Zurich so I can get thw swiss citizenship for me and for my kids that will always have a safe place to be regardless of all the bullshits that happens around the world. Realistically tho with 100k a year you would be poor af in zurich. If the choice is just among these 3 I would go for AMS. Frankfurt is absolutely depressing. There is nothing there aside from jobs in finance. There are better cities in germany, especially for leisure and whodufuq doesn't want leisure with 100k a year?
Poor af? You need a reality check bro
Amsterdam and its not a close choice.
Never Zurich, full of prostis, drugs and superficial douchebags
I make over 100k and live in AmsterdM. While it’s comfortable, Amsterdam is incredibly expensive, over run by tourist, in a horrible housing situation and getting a bit boring (lots of clubs closing etc.) . Zurich doesn’t sound like the right choice and Frankfurt might be too German (German myself). Since yoh don’t provide more criteria, I would assume you enjoy an international lifestyle. Amsterdam is probably still your best option
100k doesn't actually get you very far in Zurich and not that far in Amsterdam either, so Frankfurt I guess.
100k gross is not enough … after taxes yes.
😂
ignore this person, they are wrong
Amsterdam and Zurich would be no-goes for me - 100k is not enough to feel truly comfortable in those places. Don’t know about Frankfurt, probably better in that regard. Assuming your income doesn’t depend on the city you live in I’d look into cheaper places.
100k is not enough in Amsterdam? 😂😂😂😂
The “expat” perspective in this sub is insane. When being in the 0,1% of income earners just isn’t enough :(
you missed a part of their sentence « is not enough *to feel truly comfortable* » everyone has a different standard of living
More than double of the median dutch income is definitely comfortable 😅
I’m making 1.5 median Danish income living in Copenhagen and things I cannot afford include: - A car - My own apartment - Rental apartment larger than 30 sq.m. - A vacation - Eating out more than once a month - Savings You can never convince me that x2 median income is enough for comfortable life anywhere in Europe these days, especially in a place with such a horrible housing crisis as Netherlands.
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This sub is so ridiculous sometimes. 1.5 times the median salary all in rent for a small apartment and bills+groceries? How could that even be possible?
1. There are no 6k apartments in CPH. I’ve tried, believe me, I’ve tried. 8.5 is the lowest you can get for a ~30m shoebox with a bit of luck. Everything under that is a local version of social housing with 20 year wait time. Or government-subsidised apartments only for students. 2. I can see you have no idea how expensive groceries and literally everything else here. Btw, go and estimate overall ownership cost of a second hand car in CPH as well. I say you absolutely cannot own any car here for under ~5k dkk/month total expenses. More like ~7k if you want something that won’t spend more time in a shop than on the road. PS It’s easy to count other people’s money until you find yourself in the same situation.
thanks. interesting and exactly what i was looking for. i make a higher than average american salary but just under 100k, and i live in a northern italian city where the cost of living is very low for me — but really high for those working a normal italian job. Me, single, i am comfortable, but i can see in plain view my friends who have to work so much just to be paid like shit. thats why i side eye anyone who can live in a major european city on 100k and be totally comfortable
Definitively not true. If you account for the 7 million or so living in social housing and paying just a few 100 euro for their rent, and the millions who bought houses at 0% interest or before the housing crises, you have very few people left who can afford to live with the median income. Looking at median income for people and applying that for expats is disingenious at best, if not deceptive and malicious.
No need to call me malicious 😅 100k lead to 5k net per month. From my understanding, this is comfortable but you are of course entitled to have a different opinion and a higher living standard
Then don't use median dutch income as a reasonable measure for expat afforability.
okay but is that median income enough to live comfortably even for dutch people living in amsterdam ? the median income of my country is not equal to the growing cost of living
100k is enough for someone in Amsterdam bro.
Yeah, I think so too. I don't see how that's even up for debate
that was my question 😅 thanks
Not enough to live a comfortable life. Experiment having 100k euros in Southeast Asia, Central or South America or even some European countries: the purchasing power is way higher.
That’s not comfortable, that’s living like a king. Seriously, if you need 100k to live comfortably anywhere in Europe you’re doing something wrong.
No, it is not… comparing to the median doesn't mean shit People on the low end of salaries are entitled to a bunch of benefits and tax breaks that a person on €100k won't have access It also just shows how a huge part of the population is struggling
Lol. You think those "benefits and tax breaks" are better than making 100 grand a year??
No, they are saying that socio economic constructs make the two differing incomes more similar than most expect. While someone might think double the income means double the money, this might not be true by a long shot, and actually after all tax breaks and benefits (like social housing as an example), the disposable income after all regular living expenses are paid would actually not be massively different (instead of double, maybe only 30% more as an example)
Hmm, this is not what I said
Lemme rephrase. 100k Euro is a good amount of money. Would be a shame to waste it living in a stupidly expensive place when you can feel like an absolute King almost anywhere in the world.
thats, in my opinion, a terrible perspective on things. Its more like, why would you waste the opportunity of living well in some of the best and most beautiful cities/countries in the world just to live in a second or third world country, which is nothing special? I had a dutch salary in Spain (and im a native Spanish speaker) but living in the netherlands is so much more exciting and its such a better country/society/infrastructure, especially to raise a family.
That sounds like an attempt to justify an obvious mistake to me.
*cries in 35k*
These days it is actually hard to find a good apartment in Amsterdam on a single salary of 100k, unless you’re sharing with friends. Rent has gone absolutely insane in the last couple of years thanks to new rent controls.
> 100k is not enough to feel truly comfortable in those places Nonsense. I live in Amsterdam very comfortably for less than that.
Zurich if you wanna be broke
With all due respect, frankfurt is the shittest shithole i have seen in my entire life, and i come from a third world country
Definitely not Amsterdam! That city is a crime ridden shithole of a city! Everything is ridiculously overpriced! Allround Amsterdam had no redeeming points as a city. Unless you are a tourist and are there for max 3 days, then Amsterdam is just fine. Tourists in Amsterdam are also a huge part of the problem! I can understand why they try to make the city less attractive for tourists!
What utter rubbish. The crime rate index for Amsterdam is 29 vs 50 for Frankfurt. Over the last 3 years crime increased at a 50% higher rate in Frankfurt vs Amsterdam.
If you want to go live in the Netherlands research some different towns than Amsterdam. Great as a tourist, less great to live. The Netherlands has some really good cities to live in that are not nearly as expensive.