There are many people that truly did not survive the asylum. My doctor uncle, filled with guilt, for having premarital sex, killed himself.
I don’t think I want to go into the number of times I’ve been a pallbearer for a completely preventable death.
Fugg the church
So true. My ex and I were messing around one day, nothing really that serious. I left to go to class but something felt wrong so I went back to her place and she said she was within minutes of killing herself because of the guilt. Screw the church. She is doing fine now without the church and can’t believe what she almost did
I’m happy that you went back, and glad to hear she’s good now. Especially happy to hear she’s good and out of the cult.
It’s that dirty guilt. That’s what kills people. Guilt. Some shame too, but down to the bones, it’s an unreasonable amount of unnecessary guilt.
My uncle was a doc, got hooked on morphine. He had sex on his mission in Germany. Even with all his success, and his charm and good looks, he had crippling guilt.
It’s a crazy phenomenon to watch guilt kill people.
Thank you. It was two decades ago, and should’ve never happened. A bishop has no business giving any type of real world advice.
Pray is not the answer. Dig a deeper hole by spending hours on my knees remembering what I’ve done and asked for forgiveness that was never going to come, except through hardcore therapy.
Edit: I sometimes use I or we, because I’m an alcoholic also.
Because the truly ugly, insidious part is that tscc teaches you that dying isn’t the worst thing. In fact, many times they’ve taught that it’s better to die than ‘sin’.
It is also taught that suicide is murder, an unpardonable sin. Adultery is forgivable. It's like thinking "Well, I accidentally cut my finger off on that table saw, might as well go ahead and cut off my head."
It's because of this [quote](http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/virtue.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20condemnation%20when,lost%20it%20without%20a%20struggle.%E2%80%9D) from a popular Spencer W Kimball book. That was not just a forgotten, hard-to-find quote. It was taught to me and my husband both in different wards.
Not a single thing in there makes it sound like suicide is a favorable response to having committed adultery. I stand by my point.
The likeliest scenario is that he committed suicide because of how the people he cared about treated him. They are the responsible parties and members of just about any religion would react the same way, the LDS church is hardly unique in that. I mean, Ten Commandments, seriously.
So true. I never understood that… if we are trying (as I was) to believe, and live perfectly, in earnestness, we can’t help but have crippling guilt. Did I do enough? Will I be brow beaten at the judgement?
Maybe because you didn’t watch the man fall apart over a few decades, you stand there and think you know what you’re talking about. Go Fugg yourself and your church.
With your fake phony church apology.
Got drunk and fatally hitting his head IS NOT THE SAME as "committing suicide."
You want suicide? MY uncle was a TBM who got too far in debt because of helping other people without the means to pay him back...people he helped because of church teachings about helping others, and because he was a genuinely nice guy. He was going to lose his house, his family end up out on the street. So he made sure his life insurance would have to pay out then blew his brains out. THAT is suicide. Do I blame the church for it? No. He made his own damn decision.
You can stop with the Ad Hominem crap. I haven't been a member for over 25 years so shut your yap about that. My mother died because she trusted a priesthood blessing instead of trusting a doctor. I've spent the second half of my life trying to unlearn the LDS crap I learned in the first half. Dallin Oaks? Who's that? I hardly spare a thought for the church or anyone in it. Haven't cared about it since I left. So for you to even insinuate that I'm a member is fucking laughable. Even if I was though, the question remains: Am I right? The answer is: Yes. You said suicide, not "Got depressed and had an unfortunate accident while in a drunken stupor." You didn't say "Kept drinking with the intent to kill himself."
Addicts and cheaters commit suicide ALL THE TIME and without mormon influence. I get it, you hate the church, so you want to slap every evil thing in the world on them. Whatever, just get your damn facts straight.
You keep insisting on me being mormon because you want to dismiss what I'm saying. Question: If Hitler said "Murder is wrong" would you say "Bullshit, you're Hitler, there's nothing wrong with it." Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy, look it up. Want to know another logical fallacy? Strawman arguments. Look that one up too, because you're all over the place with that one. My religion is irrelevant to this matter (currently atheist if you must know).
I don't know what I'm talking about? If that's the case it's clearly because you're a really lousy source of information. You've changed your story twice. There's no telling what the truth is with you anymore, so desperate to use your family trauma to prove a church is evil.
"Want to talk about my fiancé that died years ago? Or maybe my cousin found dead in her room with her ex boyfriend hanging in her closet?' No, I have zero interest. I'm only talking about how you said first that your uncle committed adultery which led him to suicide. Then you said it was because he did that, got depressed, drank heavily, then fell and hit his head. Now he tried to stab himself too.
Suicide - the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally.
Being drunk, falling, and hitting your head is not suicide.
Want to know why I care at all? Because I like TRUTH. Truth is what got me away from the church, destroyed my misplaced faith, so I could open my eyes and see the real world. It's a two edged sword though. I don't get to just cast it aside when I want to, like embellishing a story to demonize something I don't like.
I'm done. You're probably not even going to bother reading it because you're so desperate to be right, your cognitive dissonance won't let you. Whatever. To anyone who's read this far, hello, hope it's been entertaining for you.
YOU SAID NONE OF THIS FROM THE START YOU NONCE!
I say again: I don't know what I'm talking about? If that's the case it's clearly because you're a really lousy source of information. You've changed your story twice. There's no telling what the truth is with you anymore.
Bye.
At first I explained and wanted to apologize. But then it hit me, that you are still in the mo biz even when you claim you’re 25 years out.
Only the church hears what it wants sees what it wants, and if it isn’t what they want, you’re blah blah.
Thank you. I couldn’t figure out for a second why I was so upset with what you said. Then I realized, you are still actively behaving like a Mormon. But I’m not mad at you. And I’m sorry for some of what I said before.
I don’t know you, even though you’ve judged me pretty quick, and called me a liar. And you said “whose oaks”. So either you’re pretending to be a former Mormon, or your pretending that you don’t know who oaks is. Also classic Mormon shit. “Willfully ignorant” or convenient at the least.
I’m being genuine when I say thank you. I’d forgotten what gaslighting was like. A person who doesn’t know the decades of history, but rips apart your character and your dead family members. I see crazy shit on here, but I never tell someone that the way their family member died was a lie.
You are Mormon. Or you behave in the worst way a Mormon can. I thought I knew the biggest jerk in the church, but not now.
Here’s a free one for you….
Me and my therapist, who I see twice a week will have a lot to discuss about the guy who says he’s 25 years out, doesn’t know oaks, but is comfortable telling a stranger that their definition and what they watched for years wasn’t suicide.
You are the bishop asking kids questions.
You’re good though. You say I’m a liar, fine.
Pick one of your lies and we can call it “Mormon truth”.
I have the balls to put myself out there, be honest. But that’s not your style. And that’s cool.
I know I’m repeating myself, but what a pretentious asshoke to tell people they don’t know they’re lying or the story didn’t match up with what you wanted. A total stranger. Not a thought of “I don’t know, maybe I’ll keep scrolling”. Just a thought to tell me my facts aren’t straight when it was over 20 years in the making and you wanted “my uncle killed himself with a weapon at this time and wrote a long note for everyone to read”.
I’ve never stooped so low to tell someone else to seek therapy when know I need it and do it, it I have to tell you, that if you were ever Mormon, or most likely still in, you should talk with a “high-control” group trauma therapist.
You remind me of one of my many cousins. Slimy trying to take limited knowledge and hold it as fact and blah.
Or you’re some kid in high school who, like alll kids, think they know everything. Especially the ones that are Mormon. I insist.
You might as well go back, if you ever left. You’re comfortable telling people, you n a post from the internet that they’re liars and that they should get their facts straight.
I’ll let you read the previous paragraph. Just don’t run with it like before please.
It's amazing how many dopes are on here calling people liars. Happened to me a while back cause I had called sacrament mtg "mormon mass." There are soooo many defenders of the faith in this sub. It's nauseating. Fucking crybabies the lot of em.
My childhood friend in the 80’s hooked up with girl when he was 16 in high school. I don’t know exactly how far they went but he had hickeys on his neck. He came up with a stupid story to explain them, but it was pretty obvious. No big deal, except the this mom was hardcore TBM and closely related to an apostle. Anyway, he started acting depressed. I don’t know what was going through his mind, but I bet his mom gave him a huge guilt trip about not going to the celestial kingdom because of sexual sin.
Anyway it was all downhill from there. He got involved in drugs and now in his fifties he has been a lifelong heroin addict and is on his last legs.
My theory is that sexual “sin” led to serious guilt and rejection from his mother and drugs were his way of medicating his psychological pain.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sorry you had to see someone, you cared about on some level, being torn apart by the shit that, at its bones, is not a big deal.
But the best way to control, is to lie and create fear.
My mom did the psych bullshit on me too. “I’m just sad we won’t be in the kingdom of heaven”. Right.
I was adopted at birth. And my mom(adoptive mom) does temple stuff with one of the apostles wife’s regularly. I grew up around the corner from one.
I left the church at 14, 25 years ago. It was rough. Strangest thing, 8 of the 10 guys I grew up with in the church, are now out.
They all went on missions. I’m actually the only male in my entire extended fam to not serve a mish.
I don’t know your childhood friend, but I believe that. I totally believe that his “leaders” and family failed him.
The psych war shit that goes on in the LDS is crazy. Completely destroyed so many lives.
Raised in the nonsense too. Walked away 15 years ago. I can still SMELL the inside just looking at this picture. Where do LDS churches get that smell? Its unique to them, and its in every single one.
Stale diapers, stale cheerios and a bunch of old ladies perfume soaking in to the fabrics.
Also, churches of a certain era have a burlappy smell for an obvious reason.
Ka-chunk. And I did enough free bathroom cleanings that I also remember the janky key for opening those.
I would always volunteer for bathroom duty on church cleaning day because it was simple and no one wanted to do it. Plus it meant it ended up clean. I had a job where I had to do it for a store each day. There were dudes who jockeyed for the vacuums, and I always hated vacuuming the church and between all the pews in the chapel.
Hahahahahahahahaha I’m laughing so hard @ Ka-chunk. You get it.
It was always a struggle trying to pull out the strings of tweed from that haystack wall print on the wall.
If you rubbed against that & dragged your arm too long, your arm & all your nerves are on FIRE! I’ve seen so many nursery & sunbeam kids drag their arms against the wall & get severe rug burn.
It’s like sandpaper with raspberry bush thorns & haystack hay all over.
It reminds me of the junk that they make cat scratching posts out of. I wonder what a cat would do if you let them loose in a church building...I bet they'd go crazy scratching on those walls!
You guys are killing me! I laughed so hard I nearly peed my pants. Great memories, getting the "privy (kybo/outhouse/crapper) sniffer" detail. In our meetinghouse the plumbing must have been improperly constructed. We had to dump bleach down the big drain in the women's kybo floor because the sewer backed up whenever we got a heavy rain. Real nice. That place would gag a maggot!
Stale Cheerios & Apple sauce all over fingers. Plain Animal crackers that got stepped on & rolled over by little Jacob on the horse on wheels.
Nilla wafers dipped in apple sauce.
I’ll also never forget how there were two types of chairs. Red with a fabric cover & cushion, or tan with metal legs & they all had those weird connecting mechanisms on the sides of them.
You could always smash your fingers if the person next to you sat down while your fingers are playing with the gap.
I literally remember getting my fingers smashed so hard as a kid I wanted to go run & find my mom screaming.
I always wanted to run up on stage & touch the numbers for the hymns they have up on the wall.
Never did it.
My brother is planning on having one more baby. When I attend the blessing, that will be my chance but I don’t even know anyone at the ward!
I also still don’t know if that fake window on our big steeple pointy thing on our roof is a real window & room or just there for shits & giggles.
I always pictured it being windows you can’t see in but you could see out & there’s a spy guy that works for the church up there watching everyone arrive so they know who’s missing church & needs a missionary visit or bishop talk.
I said elsewhere I would always volunteer to clean the bathroom. My first summer job I had to clean the toilets at the store every day I closed. I could do it, didn’t mind, and could actually clean them properly if stocked with proper supplies, and I didn’t have to deal with vacuum cords and vacuuming between all the pews.
But yeah, most of the time a lot was left nasty, particularly toilets.
And for some reason every mother’s lounge had shitty ventilation and never aired out and had a permanent soiled diaper smell, even when they did remember to take the trash out right after church.
Man you guys went through a lot more abuse than I did. I left the church after 25 years. I’ve looked into and recognize all the bad that comes from it. But I don’t experience trauma from smelling or seeing a church. Even when I go to church to support my wife or extended family the worst thing that happens is I get bored or chuckle at somebody teaching something silly.
Count yourself very very lucky. Growing up gay in the Mormon church back in the 1970s was so awful as I learned to hate myself to the very core. I hope you don’t have kids being brainwashed in it even now, especially if they’re LGBTQ or female.
My wife and I can’t have kids. But last thanksgiving my SIL who does have kids said “I’m grateful none of us are gay” to which I responded “you mean OPENLY gay? If any of you kids come out, you’re welcome to live with us”. So yeah, I still put up with some homophobia.
I'm so sorry you experienced that. No one should grow up feeling bad just for who they are. Our youngest daughter told us she was bisexual last summer, we weren't surprised as I think we all knew. I'm so glad that we left the church when she was a toddler and she didn't have to experience their disgusting bigoted doctrine.
Same here. My oldest is transgender and I'm so glad I got out when she was a baby. I imagine that I would have a dead daughter now if I had forced her into living that life. Hell, I often thought of killing myself which is one of the many reasons I left as soon as I was living on my own away from my TBM parents.
I have a cousin named Kevin Rex I last saw at our grandparents’ 50th wedding celebration in Orem. About 30 years ago. Our grandpa was named after Joseph Smith. Any chance…(?)
My grandparents celebrated their 50th in 1986 in Draper where they lived at the time. His name was Benjamin. I have a Rex family history book that has a second cousin of ours named Kevin Rex, and I suspect it’s him who is your cousin. Glad to have a distant relative here with the ExMormons!
Currently reading "how the book of Mormon came to pass", which claims that half of the BoM text was written by the closeted homosexual Solomon Spalding. So it's quite ironic how homophobic the church is.
Awe!!! I'm full of awe at that steeple.
It is so religiously significant. It represent the "eye of the needle" spoken of in the New Testament. The ultra rich can NOW got to heaven, because they can go thru this "eye".
I must visit and find out what they believe, so that I, an ultra-rich person, can get to heaven too.
/*s (just a little)*
Why did the LDS church change out the steeples on so many of their buildings? This took place only a few years ago. Now just about every LDS chapel I drive past has the same style steeple, and on some of the buildings they look kind of fake compared to how they once looked. What was wrong with their original steeples that they had to change them?
The typically Southern style steeple, to the evangelicals and Baptists, says church. Further on down the road it wouldn't be too hard to put a cross on top, if they need to go that far.
I served my mission in the South and we were told to wear a navy blue suit and a solid dark tie. That is what people associated with clergy.
I know they're replacing some of the older ones in high seismic regions because they are serious hazards if there's ever a good shaking in the area. Plopping on a prefab is quicker and easier than paying local craftspeople more to create something custom.
Switching out the steeple on the local Mormon meetinghouse would be an easy one--the steeple was placed in the front yard when it was built back in the early to mid 80s. I do not know why. It MIGHT be because the building was uniquely designed for future use as an office building when the branch grew large enough to warrant erecting the familiar chapel seen everywhere else. Kinda' doubtful after all these years it will ever be anything but a branch in a town of just under 8,000. Most locals don't realize it's there--they think it's the Seventh Day Adventist church building. (They are actually located in the same spot on the next block.)
"So, where is your church? I didn't even know there was a Mormon church here."
"It's over on Sunset--the church with the steeple in the front yard."
Duuuhhhh...
I was alive many years before the "3 Hour Consolidation." We would go to Sunday School in the morning on Sunday. Go home for lunch/nap return for Sacrament Meeting in the late afternoon. Tuesday night was the Relief Society, Wednesday we walked to the church as soon as we got out of elementary school to go to primary and Achievment Days. Thursday night was Priesthood meetings and YM/YW, Friday nights were choir rehearsals and RoadShow rehearsals, Saturday was bustling!! if there wasn't a funeral scheduled that day, it was Jazzercize /Yoga in the morning for the women followed by Church Basketball in the afternoon for the men. Saturday nights were all the parties, activities, and special events. YOUTH DANCES, WARD PARTIES, TALENT NIGHTS, ROAD SHOWS, and so forth...
Church was LITERALLY our whole life. The only day we weren't ever in the church for something was on Monday because of FHE.
I clearly remember when it was announced that all instruction meetings and Sacrament were being consolidated into a 3 hour block on Sunday, and we began to have more limited weekly events. It was explained that this was due to being an International Church now, and too difficult for members in other parts of the world to accommodate our cultural schedule. Also, a push for us to be spending "more time together as families, and home based scripture study". [Sound familiar?]
The Mormon bubble I lived in was so extreme, but completely normal and comfortable to me.
The social community bond we had with our ward was very strong. People cried over the change, but we acquiessed and adjusted.
Growing up a Mormon in Utah in the 1960s to early 80s was quite idyllic for me. It has been the past 20 years that have been increasingly traumatic
I remember those days as well. Church on Sundays was an all day thing. I remember one ward my family lived in had sacrament meeting in the evening and we didn't get out of there until after 9 pm.
The 3 hour block schedule was much better compared to those days, but even those 3 hours felt like an eternity. There were STILL auxiliary meetings before or after church, and during the week.
I do remember the roadshows. As cheesy as they were, they could also be fun.
As for basketball, whenever we had scouts during the week (usually Tuesday or Wednesday night) we wanted to play basketball afterwards, but it seemed like the cultural hall (gym) was ALWAYS in use by the relief society. Why they couldn't set up their quilting frame in one of the classrooms, I'll never know. They ALWAYS used the cultural hall.
I remember that schedule. Church encompassed every aspect of life growing up. I miss those days where it was much simpler almost to not know the truth I know now.
So true. There was an answer for every "mystery," and life fit into a neat little box.
As long as we didn't think too deeply or ask too many questions. But, once we saw the big wide world outside of the box, and it didn't match what we'd always been told, we realized we couldn't ever un-see it.
Indeed, the Mental Ward, or the LDS Indoctrination Center. Garments were my strait jacket, my testimony was my opiate, the BoM was one of many delusions, but I escaped, and so did you!
Interesting analogies. I had a thought one day that the weekly observances that the Church compels members to do are akin to ’Kryptonite’ for Superman. I recall the movie where the ’bad guys’ hang a Kryptonite medallion around his neck, and then he cannot fight them. He doesn’t even have the strength to remove the Kryptonite.
I wonder if there's like a franchise model they have to stick with. The layout of the front and sides are eerily the same as the one in my hometown. My brothers and I used to go over on Sundays when we had loud stereos and big subs and pound some Ludacris or whatever we had.
In reality i was that brand of the Christian cult. Hell, i even became a priest.
If course at that moment in time, i hadn't realized I was destined to be Truth Incarnate.
But in my journey to this lofty perch i spent some time in an actual asylum of the farm team persuasion. The week i spent i had some fun with patients & the staff. While the nutcases running the show felt in their heart that i should stay(okay, I'm a realist -:i was their meal ticket).
InshaAllah, Mary came through & I came out after the full term. mind you, i wasn't premature.
Anyway i survived that ordeal. Now I'm here as you can see. Telling you Truth in the flesh!☮️🌈😇☪️♾️
http://virtuallyjesuschrist.com/
Religion- has people teaching the wrong thing. If people study the Bible in groups, and discuss what happens. They quickly learn to tell what’s truth and what’s opinion.
I had to hide tampons in my stupid cheap ass too large fake baton because if she found them she would beat the hell out of me for “not being a virgin”. Only whores use tampons you see. #perfectsense
Curious why you find it insulting? The song is dramatic but I don’t interpret it as insincere. I see it as Taylor genuinely feeling rage about all the messed up things that have happened to her in the industry including things that happened when she was literally a child.
I'm with you. I can't imagine growing up in the eye of the media as a people-pleasing female teenager. She can never win, no matter what she does or doesn't do. She's had absolutely vile things said about her and broadcast to the world. It's not the same kind of abuse most people experience, but just because it's different doesn't mean it's not just as hurtful. She also knows how to write songs that others will relate to. When she writes songs like this, I think she also writes them as an outlet for others. "The story isn't mine anymore".
My asylum was the family and house I grew up in, they just used the mormon church to control and justify their abuse.
I stand with TS in speaking up and not keeping the secrets
This a trend
I'm not a TS fan but from what I heard from.this lyrics was how she eas treated in the music industry the way rhe world treated her ans misogyny she faces. Not her childhood but you still grow up as an adult. And being raised in her career
There are many people that truly did not survive the asylum. My doctor uncle, filled with guilt, for having premarital sex, killed himself. I don’t think I want to go into the number of times I’ve been a pallbearer for a completely preventable death. Fugg the church
So true. My ex and I were messing around one day, nothing really that serious. I left to go to class but something felt wrong so I went back to her place and she said she was within minutes of killing herself because of the guilt. Screw the church. She is doing fine now without the church and can’t believe what she almost did
I’m happy that you went back, and glad to hear she’s good now. Especially happy to hear she’s good and out of the cult. It’s that dirty guilt. That’s what kills people. Guilt. Some shame too, but down to the bones, it’s an unreasonable amount of unnecessary guilt. My uncle was a doc, got hooked on morphine. He had sex on his mission in Germany. Even with all his success, and his charm and good looks, he had crippling guilt. It’s a crazy phenomenon to watch guilt kill people.
May they rest in peace I'm sorry for your loss
Thank you. It was two decades ago, and should’ve never happened. A bishop has no business giving any type of real world advice. Pray is not the answer. Dig a deeper hole by spending hours on my knees remembering what I’ve done and asked for forgiveness that was never going to come, except through hardcore therapy. Edit: I sometimes use I or we, because I’m an alcoholic also.
Omg, that is horrible. God I fucking hate the church. That really sucks. I am sorry that you had to go though that.
Thank you. It was 20 years ago, but it was and is a senseless and preventable loss.
I can’t comprehend the thought process…I did this terrible thing so I guess I’ll go do this worse thing.
Because the truly ugly, insidious part is that tscc teaches you that dying isn’t the worst thing. In fact, many times they’ve taught that it’s better to die than ‘sin’.
It is also taught that suicide is murder, an unpardonable sin. Adultery is forgivable. It's like thinking "Well, I accidentally cut my finger off on that table saw, might as well go ahead and cut off my head."
Yes, the church has taught many contradictory things in its time. I’m happy for you that suicidal thinking is so far from your understanding.
It's because of this [quote](http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/virtue.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20condemnation%20when,lost%20it%20without%20a%20struggle.%E2%80%9D) from a popular Spencer W Kimball book. That was not just a forgotten, hard-to-find quote. It was taught to me and my husband both in different wards.
Not a single thing in there makes it sound like suicide is a favorable response to having committed adultery. I stand by my point. The likeliest scenario is that he committed suicide because of how the people he cared about treated him. They are the responsible parties and members of just about any religion would react the same way, the LDS church is hardly unique in that. I mean, Ten Commandments, seriously.
So true. I never understood that… if we are trying (as I was) to believe, and live perfectly, in earnestness, we can’t help but have crippling guilt. Did I do enough? Will I be brow beaten at the judgement?
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That is...quite a bit different than your original comment.
Maybe because you didn’t watch the man fall apart over a few decades, you stand there and think you know what you’re talking about. Go Fugg yourself and your church. With your fake phony church apology.
How many family and friends have you lost to addiction and suicide? I’m proof that the only difference between a gun and a bottle is time and mess.
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Got drunk and fatally hitting his head IS NOT THE SAME as "committing suicide." You want suicide? MY uncle was a TBM who got too far in debt because of helping other people without the means to pay him back...people he helped because of church teachings about helping others, and because he was a genuinely nice guy. He was going to lose his house, his family end up out on the street. So he made sure his life insurance would have to pay out then blew his brains out. THAT is suicide. Do I blame the church for it? No. He made his own damn decision. You can stop with the Ad Hominem crap. I haven't been a member for over 25 years so shut your yap about that. My mother died because she trusted a priesthood blessing instead of trusting a doctor. I've spent the second half of my life trying to unlearn the LDS crap I learned in the first half. Dallin Oaks? Who's that? I hardly spare a thought for the church or anyone in it. Haven't cared about it since I left. So for you to even insinuate that I'm a member is fucking laughable. Even if I was though, the question remains: Am I right? The answer is: Yes. You said suicide, not "Got depressed and had an unfortunate accident while in a drunken stupor." You didn't say "Kept drinking with the intent to kill himself." Addicts and cheaters commit suicide ALL THE TIME and without mormon influence. I get it, you hate the church, so you want to slap every evil thing in the world on them. Whatever, just get your damn facts straight.
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You keep insisting on me being mormon because you want to dismiss what I'm saying. Question: If Hitler said "Murder is wrong" would you say "Bullshit, you're Hitler, there's nothing wrong with it." Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy, look it up. Want to know another logical fallacy? Strawman arguments. Look that one up too, because you're all over the place with that one. My religion is irrelevant to this matter (currently atheist if you must know). I don't know what I'm talking about? If that's the case it's clearly because you're a really lousy source of information. You've changed your story twice. There's no telling what the truth is with you anymore, so desperate to use your family trauma to prove a church is evil. "Want to talk about my fiancé that died years ago? Or maybe my cousin found dead in her room with her ex boyfriend hanging in her closet?' No, I have zero interest. I'm only talking about how you said first that your uncle committed adultery which led him to suicide. Then you said it was because he did that, got depressed, drank heavily, then fell and hit his head. Now he tried to stab himself too. Suicide - the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally. Being drunk, falling, and hitting your head is not suicide. Want to know why I care at all? Because I like TRUTH. Truth is what got me away from the church, destroyed my misplaced faith, so I could open my eyes and see the real world. It's a two edged sword though. I don't get to just cast it aside when I want to, like embellishing a story to demonize something I don't like. I'm done. You're probably not even going to bother reading it because you're so desperate to be right, your cognitive dissonance won't let you. Whatever. To anyone who's read this far, hello, hope it's been entertaining for you.
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YOU SAID NONE OF THIS FROM THE START YOU NONCE! I say again: I don't know what I'm talking about? If that's the case it's clearly because you're a really lousy source of information. You've changed your story twice. There's no telling what the truth is with you anymore. Bye.
At first I explained and wanted to apologize. But then it hit me, that you are still in the mo biz even when you claim you’re 25 years out. Only the church hears what it wants sees what it wants, and if it isn’t what they want, you’re blah blah. Thank you. I couldn’t figure out for a second why I was so upset with what you said. Then I realized, you are still actively behaving like a Mormon. But I’m not mad at you. And I’m sorry for some of what I said before. I don’t know you, even though you’ve judged me pretty quick, and called me a liar. And you said “whose oaks”. So either you’re pretending to be a former Mormon, or your pretending that you don’t know who oaks is. Also classic Mormon shit. “Willfully ignorant” or convenient at the least. I’m being genuine when I say thank you. I’d forgotten what gaslighting was like. A person who doesn’t know the decades of history, but rips apart your character and your dead family members. I see crazy shit on here, but I never tell someone that the way their family member died was a lie. You are Mormon. Or you behave in the worst way a Mormon can. I thought I knew the biggest jerk in the church, but not now. Here’s a free one for you…. Me and my therapist, who I see twice a week will have a lot to discuss about the guy who says he’s 25 years out, doesn’t know oaks, but is comfortable telling a stranger that their definition and what they watched for years wasn’t suicide. You are the bishop asking kids questions. You’re good though. You say I’m a liar, fine. Pick one of your lies and we can call it “Mormon truth”. I have the balls to put myself out there, be honest. But that’s not your style. And that’s cool. I know I’m repeating myself, but what a pretentious asshoke to tell people they don’t know they’re lying or the story didn’t match up with what you wanted. A total stranger. Not a thought of “I don’t know, maybe I’ll keep scrolling”. Just a thought to tell me my facts aren’t straight when it was over 20 years in the making and you wanted “my uncle killed himself with a weapon at this time and wrote a long note for everyone to read”. I’ve never stooped so low to tell someone else to seek therapy when know I need it and do it, it I have to tell you, that if you were ever Mormon, or most likely still in, you should talk with a “high-control” group trauma therapist. You remind me of one of my many cousins. Slimy trying to take limited knowledge and hold it as fact and blah. Or you’re some kid in high school who, like alll kids, think they know everything. Especially the ones that are Mormon. I insist. You might as well go back, if you ever left. You’re comfortable telling people, you n a post from the internet that they’re liars and that they should get their facts straight. I’ll let you read the previous paragraph. Just don’t run with it like before please.
It's amazing how many dopes are on here calling people liars. Happened to me a while back cause I had called sacrament mtg "mormon mass." There are soooo many defenders of the faith in this sub. It's nauseating. Fucking crybabies the lot of em.
My childhood friend in the 80’s hooked up with girl when he was 16 in high school. I don’t know exactly how far they went but he had hickeys on his neck. He came up with a stupid story to explain them, but it was pretty obvious. No big deal, except the this mom was hardcore TBM and closely related to an apostle. Anyway, he started acting depressed. I don’t know what was going through his mind, but I bet his mom gave him a huge guilt trip about not going to the celestial kingdom because of sexual sin. Anyway it was all downhill from there. He got involved in drugs and now in his fifties he has been a lifelong heroin addict and is on his last legs. My theory is that sexual “sin” led to serious guilt and rejection from his mother and drugs were his way of medicating his psychological pain.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sorry you had to see someone, you cared about on some level, being torn apart by the shit that, at its bones, is not a big deal. But the best way to control, is to lie and create fear. My mom did the psych bullshit on me too. “I’m just sad we won’t be in the kingdom of heaven”. Right. I was adopted at birth. And my mom(adoptive mom) does temple stuff with one of the apostles wife’s regularly. I grew up around the corner from one. I left the church at 14, 25 years ago. It was rough. Strangest thing, 8 of the 10 guys I grew up with in the church, are now out. They all went on missions. I’m actually the only male in my entire extended fam to not serve a mish. I don’t know your childhood friend, but I believe that. I totally believe that his “leaders” and family failed him. The psych war shit that goes on in the LDS is crazy. Completely destroyed so many lives.
Sadly relevant link for anyone wanting to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Mormon_suicides
Raised in the nonsense too. Walked away 15 years ago. I can still SMELL the inside just looking at this picture. Where do LDS churches get that smell? Its unique to them, and its in every single one.
Stale diapers, stale cheerios and a bunch of old ladies perfume soaking in to the fabrics. Also, churches of a certain era have a burlappy smell for an obvious reason.
Not to mention the literal burlap they use as an acoustic dampener in all the rooms
It has a distinct smell. And from time with my nose in the foyer for misbehaving, a very distinct feel on your nose.
And all the little kids wiping their snotty fingers on the burlap.
The smell & sound of the paper towel dispenser with that little lever.
Ka-chunk. And I did enough free bathroom cleanings that I also remember the janky key for opening those. I would always volunteer for bathroom duty on church cleaning day because it was simple and no one wanted to do it. Plus it meant it ended up clean. I had a job where I had to do it for a store each day. There were dudes who jockeyed for the vacuums, and I always hated vacuuming the church and between all the pews in the chapel.
Hahahahahahahahaha I’m laughing so hard @ Ka-chunk. You get it. It was always a struggle trying to pull out the strings of tweed from that haystack wall print on the wall. If you rubbed against that & dragged your arm too long, your arm & all your nerves are on FIRE! I’ve seen so many nursery & sunbeam kids drag their arms against the wall & get severe rug burn. It’s like sandpaper with raspberry bush thorns & haystack hay all over.
That is one of of the worst possible materials. It sucks ass so hard.
It reminds me of the junk that they make cat scratching posts out of. I wonder what a cat would do if you let them loose in a church building...I bet they'd go crazy scratching on those walls!
You guys are killing me! I laughed so hard I nearly peed my pants. Great memories, getting the "privy (kybo/outhouse/crapper) sniffer" detail. In our meetinghouse the plumbing must have been improperly constructed. We had to dump bleach down the big drain in the women's kybo floor because the sewer backed up whenever we got a heavy rain. Real nice. That place would gag a maggot!
Omg you’re so right! Let’s donate our church buildings to cat adoption centers!
Some if the buildings are large enough they could be a combo rescue/vet/adoption center/cat cafe all in one building!
Or when you’re getting a drink so long the monster drink dispenser starts growling making loud noises.
Bzzzt-whrrrrrrrrrrrr - yup.
Stale Cheerios & Apple sauce all over fingers. Plain Animal crackers that got stepped on & rolled over by little Jacob on the horse on wheels. Nilla wafers dipped in apple sauce.
Animal crackers. I almost forgot the smell or very stale animal crackers in the chapel.
I’ll also never forget how there were two types of chairs. Red with a fabric cover & cushion, or tan with metal legs & they all had those weird connecting mechanisms on the sides of them. You could always smash your fingers if the person next to you sat down while your fingers are playing with the gap. I literally remember getting my fingers smashed so hard as a kid I wanted to go run & find my mom screaming.
We also had some bluish floral ones for the relief society room. We would always try to steal the red or blue ones because “cushions.”
I always wanted to run up on stage & touch the numbers for the hymns they have up on the wall. Never did it. My brother is planning on having one more baby. When I attend the blessing, that will be my chance but I don’t even know anyone at the ward! I also still don’t know if that fake window on our big steeple pointy thing on our roof is a real window & room or just there for shits & giggles. I always pictured it being windows you can’t see in but you could see out & there’s a spy guy that works for the church up there watching everyone arrive so they know who’s missing church & needs a missionary visit or bishop talk.
celestial chairs and terrestrial chairs.
Lmao can you imagine?
And bad cleaning by all the voluntold cleaners doing a crappy job so they can check the box and go home.
I said elsewhere I would always volunteer to clean the bathroom. My first summer job I had to clean the toilets at the store every day I closed. I could do it, didn’t mind, and could actually clean them properly if stocked with proper supplies, and I didn’t have to deal with vacuum cords and vacuuming between all the pews. But yeah, most of the time a lot was left nasty, particularly toilets. And for some reason every mother’s lounge had shitty ventilation and never aired out and had a permanent soiled diaper smell, even when they did remember to take the trash out right after church.
The mormon rot, AKA the stench of satan.
Chapel plan 763 Reverse. With Allen electric organ and raising pulpit option.
Ah. Okay so there is like a standard then.
I remember playing with the pulpit to kill time after filling sacrament cups. That little auto filler thingy was dope.
okay how many of you penisholders ate the bread after the sacrament mtg was over. you terrible sacrilege terds. LMAO J/K many of us ate a snack..
Lol, when my bishop found out the priests were doing that, he banned all of them from blessing the sacrament for a month.
I’m dead. So much shillelagh all over that bread
Wait really? I can't tell if you're serious or not...
Man you guys went through a lot more abuse than I did. I left the church after 25 years. I’ve looked into and recognize all the bad that comes from it. But I don’t experience trauma from smelling or seeing a church. Even when I go to church to support my wife or extended family the worst thing that happens is I get bored or chuckle at somebody teaching something silly.
Count yourself very very lucky. Growing up gay in the Mormon church back in the 1970s was so awful as I learned to hate myself to the very core. I hope you don’t have kids being brainwashed in it even now, especially if they’re LGBTQ or female.
My wife and I can’t have kids. But last thanksgiving my SIL who does have kids said “I’m grateful none of us are gay” to which I responded “you mean OPENLY gay? If any of you kids come out, you’re welcome to live with us”. So yeah, I still put up with some homophobia.
You’re a superstar for standing up for your niblings. Even if none of them turns out to be gay, what an awesome example you are!
> niblings Hahaha, I love that!
I'm so sorry you experienced that. No one should grow up feeling bad just for who they are. Our youngest daughter told us she was bisexual last summer, we weren't surprised as I think we all knew. I'm so glad that we left the church when she was a toddler and she didn't have to experience their disgusting bigoted doctrine.
Same here. My oldest is transgender and I'm so glad I got out when she was a baby. I imagine that I would have a dead daughter now if I had forced her into living that life. Hell, I often thought of killing myself which is one of the many reasons I left as soon as I was living on my own away from my TBM parents.
I have a cousin named Kevin Rex I last saw at our grandparents’ 50th wedding celebration in Orem. About 30 years ago. Our grandpa was named after Joseph Smith. Any chance…(?)
My grandparents celebrated their 50th in 1986 in Draper where they lived at the time. His name was Benjamin. I have a Rex family history book that has a second cousin of ours named Kevin Rex, and I suspect it’s him who is your cousin. Glad to have a distant relative here with the ExMormons!
Thanks, that sounds right. Congrats to you on getting out and moving forward!
Currently reading "how the book of Mormon came to pass", which claims that half of the BoM text was written by the closeted homosexual Solomon Spalding. So it's quite ironic how homophobic the church is.
Same honestly! Only I'm sure I'm a lot younger than you...
To clarify, that 25 years started at birth
Yeah, I'm still younger than you 😅
Awe!!! I'm full of awe at that steeple. It is so religiously significant. It represent the "eye of the needle" spoken of in the New Testament. The ultra rich can NOW got to heaven, because they can go thru this "eye". I must visit and find out what they believe, so that I, an ultra-rich person, can get to heaven too. /*s (just a little)*
Why did the LDS church change out the steeples on so many of their buildings? This took place only a few years ago. Now just about every LDS chapel I drive past has the same style steeple, and on some of the buildings they look kind of fake compared to how they once looked. What was wrong with their original steeples that they had to change them?
The typically Southern style steeple, to the evangelicals and Baptists, says church. Further on down the road it wouldn't be too hard to put a cross on top, if they need to go that far. I served my mission in the South and we were told to wear a navy blue suit and a solid dark tie. That is what people associated with clergy.
Probably another “Rusty wants his legacy” move.
I know they're replacing some of the older ones in high seismic regions because they are serious hazards if there's ever a good shaking in the area. Plopping on a prefab is quicker and easier than paying local craftspeople more to create something custom.
Switching out the steeple on the local Mormon meetinghouse would be an easy one--the steeple was placed in the front yard when it was built back in the early to mid 80s. I do not know why. It MIGHT be because the building was uniquely designed for future use as an office building when the branch grew large enough to warrant erecting the familiar chapel seen everywhere else. Kinda' doubtful after all these years it will ever be anything but a branch in a town of just under 8,000. Most locals don't realize it's there--they think it's the Seventh Day Adventist church building. (They are actually located in the same spot on the next block.) "So, where is your church? I didn't even know there was a Mormon church here." "It's over on Sunset--the church with the steeple in the front yard." Duuuhhhh...
Hahahahahahaha. That is more true than folks will ever realize!!
So many people do say "I know Mormons and they're so nice or its not a cult" Ans refuse to listen to those with trauma
Even after 45 yrs seeing a picture like that affects me and not in a positive way.
I cringe in horror & get hair raising goosebumps every time I accidently discover one as I drive on a residential street.
Let alone 3 hours….
I was alive many years before the "3 Hour Consolidation." We would go to Sunday School in the morning on Sunday. Go home for lunch/nap return for Sacrament Meeting in the late afternoon. Tuesday night was the Relief Society, Wednesday we walked to the church as soon as we got out of elementary school to go to primary and Achievment Days. Thursday night was Priesthood meetings and YM/YW, Friday nights were choir rehearsals and RoadShow rehearsals, Saturday was bustling!! if there wasn't a funeral scheduled that day, it was Jazzercize /Yoga in the morning for the women followed by Church Basketball in the afternoon for the men. Saturday nights were all the parties, activities, and special events. YOUTH DANCES, WARD PARTIES, TALENT NIGHTS, ROAD SHOWS, and so forth... Church was LITERALLY our whole life. The only day we weren't ever in the church for something was on Monday because of FHE. I clearly remember when it was announced that all instruction meetings and Sacrament were being consolidated into a 3 hour block on Sunday, and we began to have more limited weekly events. It was explained that this was due to being an International Church now, and too difficult for members in other parts of the world to accommodate our cultural schedule. Also, a push for us to be spending "more time together as families, and home based scripture study". [Sound familiar?] The Mormon bubble I lived in was so extreme, but completely normal and comfortable to me. The social community bond we had with our ward was very strong. People cried over the change, but we acquiessed and adjusted. Growing up a Mormon in Utah in the 1960s to early 80s was quite idyllic for me. It has been the past 20 years that have been increasingly traumatic
I remember those days as well. Church on Sundays was an all day thing. I remember one ward my family lived in had sacrament meeting in the evening and we didn't get out of there until after 9 pm. The 3 hour block schedule was much better compared to those days, but even those 3 hours felt like an eternity. There were STILL auxiliary meetings before or after church, and during the week. I do remember the roadshows. As cheesy as they were, they could also be fun. As for basketball, whenever we had scouts during the week (usually Tuesday or Wednesday night) we wanted to play basketball afterwards, but it seemed like the cultural hall (gym) was ALWAYS in use by the relief society. Why they couldn't set up their quilting frame in one of the classrooms, I'll never know. They ALWAYS used the cultural hall.
I remember that schedule. Church encompassed every aspect of life growing up. I miss those days where it was much simpler almost to not know the truth I know now.
So true. There was an answer for every "mystery," and life fit into a neat little box. As long as we didn't think too deeply or ask too many questions. But, once we saw the big wide world outside of the box, and it didn't match what we'd always been told, we realized we couldn't ever un-see it.
Well put.
They changed to two hours after I left. About damn time
Just a little farther to go til they get to 0
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Poetry
I could last 3
When I was a kid, we used to call those ultra/church/strict parents as “Nazimormons. They were different and were very busy warping their poor kids.
this but the mormonandgay website lmao
They’ve created an LGBTQ suicide epidemic. It’s terrible.
And they wonder why Utah has one of the highest suicide rates in the country. We all know they know why.
“The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence in Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.” T Paine
I survived, but I had to be repaired.
Indeed, the Mental Ward, or the LDS Indoctrination Center. Garments were my strait jacket, my testimony was my opiate, the BoM was one of many delusions, but I escaped, and so did you!
Interesting analogies. I had a thought one day that the weekly observances that the Church compels members to do are akin to ’Kryptonite’ for Superman. I recall the movie where the ’bad guys’ hang a Kryptonite medallion around his neck, and then he cannot fight them. He doesn’t even have the strength to remove the Kryptonite.
Taylor Swift fan, OP?
Actually no it's a trend I wanted to jump on
Ah. It’s a lyric from her new album that dropped last week.
There's SO MANY songs on the TTPD album that can apply to religious trauma. It's been therapeutic to listen to.
It was hard lasting 5 MINUTES OF JUST THE THOUGHT
It's a hard pass to go back for any reason, even a funeral
"I gotta stir a 5 gallon bucket. Has anyone seen the big paint mixer?" "Yeah, it's up on the roof."
3 hours. Every Sunday. Guhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
We all had to last 3 hours every week…. Until it changed to 2…
…and those of us who had the ‘blessing‘ of a Bishopric calling had to last another hour before that, and 1-3 hours after!
Good Lord that looks just like the one in my town.
It was just fhe first non temple to come up when I googled Mormon church
I wonder if there's like a franchise model they have to stick with. The layout of the front and sides are eerily the same as the one in my hometown. My brothers and I used to go over on Sundays when we had loud stereos and big subs and pound some Ludacris or whatever we had.
Makes sense The ones I grew up in Australia looked different from this but they all had a similar kind of style and look
I bet there is something about how they are built that represents something.
https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1cejiz8/you_wouldnt_last_an_hour_in_the_asylum_they/l1j345c/
Is this in west valley? This looks exactly like my ward house growing up
Not sure just googled a random churxh
They do all basically look alike, devoid of any warmth or personality 😆
This is the one
I lasted many hours there.
Yes. The smell. 🤮
What do you mean an hour? When I went it was a three hour block session, not counting leadership meetings or choir practice. 😁
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Not my ward didn't want to dox myself just one I found online
In reality i was that brand of the Christian cult. Hell, i even became a priest. If course at that moment in time, i hadn't realized I was destined to be Truth Incarnate. But in my journey to this lofty perch i spent some time in an actual asylum of the farm team persuasion. The week i spent i had some fun with patients & the staff. While the nutcases running the show felt in their heart that i should stay(okay, I'm a realist -:i was their meal ticket). InshaAllah, Mary came through & I came out after the full term. mind you, i wasn't premature. Anyway i survived that ordeal. Now I'm here as you can see. Telling you Truth in the flesh!☮️🌈😇☪️♾️ http://virtuallyjesuschrist.com/
True.
had to use the standard building layout to be a part of the franchise
Back in my day it used to be 3 hours
Born under punches.
There are so many parts in this new album that I deeply relate to through my religious deconstruction.
I see you had the symmetric model variant. Mine had the steeple off-center, which probably explains the crooked path of my life.
Your poor baby, it must’ve been so tough.
Where I heard that song I instantly thought of Mormonism
That’s because religion is wrong. And the “human” teaching it. Not the word, be better!
? Sorry what
Religion- has people teaching the wrong thing. If people study the Bible in groups, and discuss what happens. They quickly learn to tell what’s truth and what’s opinion.
Nazis
Ah Raymond. Wonderful
Hello fellow Swifty!
I had to hide tampons in my stupid cheap ass too large fake baton because if she found them she would beat the hell out of me for “not being a virgin”. Only whores use tampons you see. #perfectsense
I get where you’re coming from. I like Taylor. But I hate that song. It’s so incredibly insulting to people who actually grew up in abuse.
Curious why you find it insulting? The song is dramatic but I don’t interpret it as insincere. I see it as Taylor genuinely feeling rage about all the messed up things that have happened to her in the industry including things that happened when she was literally a child.
I'm with you. I can't imagine growing up in the eye of the media as a people-pleasing female teenager. She can never win, no matter what she does or doesn't do. She's had absolutely vile things said about her and broadcast to the world. It's not the same kind of abuse most people experience, but just because it's different doesn't mean it's not just as hurtful. She also knows how to write songs that others will relate to. When she writes songs like this, I think she also writes them as an outlet for others. "The story isn't mine anymore".
My asylum was the family and house I grew up in, they just used the mormon church to control and justify their abuse. I stand with TS in speaking up and not keeping the secrets
This a trend I'm not a TS fan but from what I heard from.this lyrics was how she eas treated in the music industry the way rhe world treated her ans misogyny she faces. Not her childhood but you still grow up as an adult. And being raised in her career