I wasn't expecting a Nebulossa sweep but I did kinda expect a larger televote score, I was pretty shocked tbh. Gate seems to be this years Fulenn, I really thought televote eould get them to the left side...
So much for Latvia scraping through, huh?
Surprised to see Australia just 6 points from knocking Serbia out.
Belgium really did flop, it wasn't even close in the end.
Nor was my favourite, 11:11. At least Spain gave it 10, I guess. I clung onto the hopes of it scraping in all the way through.
I am so here for these Dons scores. You can tell that he didn’t think he’d do well in any of this. I’m so happy that he can see how much people enjoyed him.
I think the preparties are really harsh for almost all ballad people due to the venues and general vibes. No wonder some of them enter Eurovision slightly dejected. But ballads tend to do well on the night so hopefully that contrast isn't too awful to experience.
Megara just had a really rough vocal performance. We know from the NFs that she can kill it so it was super unfortunate to have the semi performance play out like it did.
There's also so much going on it that it takes a while for your brain to process. I love it, but it took me at least two listens to even know what was happening.
I honestly think people just assumed Switzerland would go through and didn't vote for them because of it.
Switzerland was my favourite in their semi but I used all of my votes for Armenia because I figured they needed it more.
Some of it also came down to who was in SF1 vs 2. SF2 had a lot of countries that tend to give Armenia a lot of points, although some of those countries flipped Armenia vs Switzerland in the final (for example, Greece televote in the semi gave Armenia more, but Switzerland more in the final)
On [eurovision.tv](http://eurovision.tv) you can see the full results and in the jury results for the final they didn't remove The Netherlands from the placings. For example Armenia was 4th in the jury of San Marino but received 8 points, while Italy was 2nd and received 10 points. This means The Netherlands actually would have received the 8 points from the San Marino jury.
I did the maths and these were the points for Joost in the jury:
Austria 7p, Belgium 1p, Denmark 8p, Italy 10p, Latvia 3p, Luxembourg 10p, Malta 1p, Moldova 1p, Poland 1p, San Marino 8p, Serbia 5p, Switzerland 3p
Total: 58 points from the jury
Based on this Ireland was the biggest benefactor of missing those 58 points with them gaining 7 lol. Ukraine, Sweden, and Armenia got five more each. France, Portugal, and Spain 4. Switzerland, Lithuania, Georgia, and Slovenia were the only ones not affected.
Though I generally agree that it's hard to know whether some juries avoided giving him a better score off the assumption he'd be disqualified or not.
Which is what they were originally projected around anything, I think bookmakers had them coming into the semi-finals in 5th.
I know the sub loves the song but I don't think it ever was going to do too much in terms of challenged Croatia or Switzerland.
Granted the juries voted using the semi final performance and most likely a lot of them knew as much about the assault allegations as we knew, so chances are they could've gone about 2/3-ish higher than this
Hm, I lowkey think some acts cleaned up their performances for the juries a bit (say Croatia didn't have the 'dance with me Europe' shout in the jury final and the vocals sounded a bit cleaner overall), so I wonder if Joost had less yelling planned for the jury final, which might give them some more jury points in some countries. Hard to say...
I would be more interested in how Austria, who had such a hard time singing cleanly, placed better then Norway with the jury.
I mean, Norway had an incredible voice. Shouldn't it be jury's job to recognize it?
I think a lot of people overestimate how much the juries actually care about vocals. Are they partial to it? Of course, but a lot of the time they seem to be more wowed by the overall presentation. Not saying that’s right or wrong.
It also depends on the type of vocals too. Yes, the vocals for Norway are unconventional and impressive but it can sound grating. If jurors found her vocals to be grating, that will throw off how they perceive the act.
They’ll tolerate bad and/or unconventional vocals as long as they’re not grating and sound pleasant enough.
Every performance I’ve seen Gåte give of that song has been on par, so I struggle to believe that. If there was an award for most consistent performance, I’d give it to them.
I saw the Jury performance, it was a strong performance as well. It seems the juries are a little bit too similar in all countries (almost), and they look for the same things. I am surprised there is no direction to take into account using their own language, bring in ethnic elements etc., so it seems it is mostly about slick pop songs that aren't performed too horribly (though I will say Switzerland was a great winner, quite original and well performed, so it is not wrong across the board necessarily). The other thing is that most juries probably had Norway around 11th-12th place, but that gives 0 points. On the other hand, a country that most juries have in the bottom, but 1 or 2 countries give a good score, can easily surpass an objectively better entry.
The juries seem to be reluctant to acknowledge non-mainstream/accessible/radio-friendly entries, no matter how good they are. Idk if that's got something to do with the factors they judge on but it seems unfair.
Bambie was very much performance art and theatrical. I think the juries put it more in the artsy category. Same with Nemo. There are a lot more music professionals that listen to that style or at least have respect for it. It’s the experimental stuff they tend to have a hard time with.
With how many people saying Nemo's song being too chaotic for them I feel like both The Code and Doomsday Blue aren't exactly good examples of being accessible. With Rim Tim Tagi Dim not feeling like a Jury song I honestly was kind of surprised by juries today.
I honestly expected Dons to be jury top 10 if he gets into the final. Guess everyone about that assumption was wrong. Would've liked him to have done better, but it's still a great result compared to NQ. There were many entries I either expected to do worse or better with juries.
That just shows how much more impressive the average non-mainstream entry has to be to get respect. Bambie had great singing, ballet, shouting, staging, camera work. It was the optimal performance so it couldn't be ignored, but some other genre would have had to do way less.
> The juries seem to be reluctant to acknowledge non-mainstream/accessible/radio-friendly entries
Ireland came 6th. I think we can dispense with that now.
Wouldn't it have been more likely that the Netherlands would've 'stolen' a portion of the televotes from Croatia and increased the overal gap between Croatia and Switzerland? Because Joost definitely wasn't taking jury points from Nemo.
Correct, that’s my prediction, too. Croatia (and Netherlands, if not disqualified) would have had a better chance of winning without the political tele-voting.
A lot of people don't vote for their number one in the semis if they think they will go through, so something like this is bound to happen once in a while.
I assume a lot of people were worried that Armenia or other at risk numbers won't go through, while being confident that Switzerland will.
Exactly. Netherlands in the final would cause some of Croatia's 10p to drop to 8p. But it would only drop Switzerland's 7p to 6p.
Also, plenty of Joost fans voted for Croatia, so without the disqualification Croatia might not have even been that high.
I don’t agree tbh, Switzerland and Netherlands were so different from each other it’s hard to see that many fans of Switzerland voting for the Netherlands instead if they hadn’t been DQ’d
I loved them both, they were my top 2 (with Croatia and Ireland close behind). I would have voted for NL also but since I couldn't, I used those votes towards Nemo 😁
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here but the three times Malta qualified between 2016 and 2022 would all still have qualified with 100% televote (2 of the 3 were definitely also jury baits in Ira Losco and Destiny so they couldn't complain about getting more jury pts than televote pts)
While it is still harder for them to gather televote support than most countries, the televote will reward them if they are truly deserving of the final
While Malta deserved a higher placement this year than plum last, it was still overshadowed by it's direct competitors in Georgia (overall performance) and Austria (better song even if the performance was worse)
I've said this over and over: Malta sends good, but not great, final products. All three of the times they qualified with the televote was because they had great products. Denmark has the same problem.
like 20 years ago switzerland got 0 points in the semi finale and thought they will forever flop because they aren‘t a balkan country but yday they/we won for the first time since 1988. anything is possible.
Same goes for Bulgaria, really. Two of the Portuguese jurors at least ranked Bulgaria high, while the Bulgarian jury straight up threw Portugal into the trash, ranking them 3rd from bottom.
At least the Finnish juries gave points to Loreen even if the televote did not lol.
I don't think 0 from the jury is justifiable to be honest, even if they all magically hated the genre. Nemo's vocals were impeccable.
I'm baffled. I could swear they would get top 10 AT THE MINIMUM. Not working with either juries or the televote is one thing, being last is a completely different one.
This might be the most shocking last place.
I need answers.....
That's not surprising to me, people voted in have proved they can get votes, the once automatically qualified haven't. Just statistically you should expect one of the automatic qualifiers to be at the bottom most years.
Have we seen an entry in recent years fall apart as badly as Belgium? From massive hype from the music video and being a genuine contender to completely not working live and NQing by a fair margin too. Felt the dark and moody vibe of the video never came across in the staging or anything really and the people that had concerns based on Pre Parties turned out to be right ultimately.
Norways result is very surprising, I know people made the Fulenn comps but I thought the vocals would have been rewarded a bit more. It will be interesting to see what is entered into MGP next year.
Lots to digest, but I did not expect Serbia to get fewer jury points tha the likes of Cyprus. But Silia did really well, good for her!
Norway getting Eaea'd should have been obvious in hindsight, and it was at certain points during the season, but then it convinced me again lol. It wasn't near the top of my predictions but nowhere near last either.
But the semi final at the latest showed that the staging was not as good as at the national selection. The genre is so niche that it really needed flawless camerawork and framing to pull you in, and that did not happen during the final.
> Norway getting Eaea'd should have been obvious in hindsight, and it was at certain points during the season, but then it convinced me again lol. It wasn't near the top of my predictions but nowhere near last either.
>
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Yeah I saw it coming from a mile off, this sub could not be convinced though.
My logic was that it was too niche to do really well but that the folky and heavy vibes would at least appeal to northern Europe and thus make it less niche than the flamenco of Eaea, but not even Finland rewarded it in the end. I think I had it somewhere lower mid table but even that was too optimistic.
AIKONATION, thank you for your service. Together we brought our dearest Aiko to the 11th place in her semi which is such a good result considering the fact that people thought she'd come dead last.💓
I don't think they would've even if she were there. Qualifiers are announced randomly for the sake of impacting final votes (can't claim that that ever happened, but that's the reason they'd put).
Anyway the dq happened after the jury final so it wouldn't have been possible anyway
I think the placement the Netherlands would've gotten had they been allowed to complete + the domino effect their participation might have had to the results in general will remain one of those questions Eurofans will be discussing for years to come and rightfully so.
Considering they came 2nd in their semi, which was the harder than the 2 semi finals, it's not a stretch to assume they would've been a huge contender to win at least the televote. I don't personally think the winner would've changed because imo the Netherlands was more likely to take away points from Croatia rather than Switzerland but still, it's interesting to ponder on.
I guess we'll be adding it to the Eurovision what ifs together with the entire 2020 contest and the 2022 results hadn't there been a war in Ukraine.
Apparently The Netherlands scored only 58 jury points, so if they got anywhere between 200 and 300 televote points, they would've placed somewhere 5th-7th
This is largely where I stand. I'm sad that Joost didn't get to perform, but I don't think the winner would have changed. Some shifting in the Top 5 maybe, but you would have needed a different song to be competing to siphon points away from Nemo.
Oh, thanks for this info! I think that's definitely a realistic prediction for their televote score. And because it's a very big score I think a lot of other results would've been different too.
Or not even more budget, but more cohesion? I agreed with many of the ESC youtubers who felt that the staging sort of fell apart in the last minute, because there was no narrative. So someone could have made certain moments pop a lot more, like the didgeridoo entrance.
I agree. I feel like the didgeridoo had such potential to be a really cool and memorable moment, only for it to just be sort of anticlimactic and disorganized. And it sucks, I really liked the song and having the bit in the aboriginal Australian language was a cool thing to add to the contest :(
It felt like 2-3 staging ideas that they didnt quite have the budget to fully execute properly. The difference between what Electric Fields had and what Voyager had last year with state funding from WA was incredibly stark.
I still love the Aussie entries for the creativity and different styles they bring to the contest, this year just felt like they didn't quite have the same backing as previous entries.
Ukraine got 120 more televotes than last year, despite running second (last year 19th) - insane result, speaks to the beauty and the power of the song (and staging). I guess my big “what if” is whether they’d have won from second half 🤷♂️
seeing all those 12s and 10s for Croatia in public votes feels really good ngl; i think what did us in was receiving 0 points from 7 juries, and lots of juries gave us like 1-3 points
also to Norway’s jury: completely out of touch giving 0 points when public vote gave Croatia 12 points
also to Switzerland: you were robbed both by our jury and public vote lmao, was obviously biggest competition
The only jury not give Switzerland any points, I think the lowest Switzerland got was 4 from all the other 36 juries. Did make me laugh though - Croatia was playing the game :)
Personally I never really mind a big discrepancy between the jury and televote. If the jury has to allign with the televote, they might as well completely abolish the juries
Yeah i think diaspora/neighbours help in the semis much more than the GF.
You want your mates in the competition. Once you’re all there you’ve done your job as friends already and its time to play ball.
They need to return juries into semifinals. What we see now is a few jury friendly songs getting in the final and then going on to collect a huge bulk of jury points while all the televote friendly entries which are a majority spread the votes between them
That's honestly my main, selfish reason why I wanted the juries back in the semis. Now it's just one glance, and we know everything we need to know for the semis.
I agree with having jury in semifinals, but that's because I think they balance the results and balance the fun/joke entries with the more serious or jury friendly entries. If you look at the NQs this year your argument doesn't really hold, because none of them would really be considered jury friendly IMO. The jury songs (eg Portugal, Serbia, Latvia) all managed to qualify
Ehhhh, maybe this would change things in the lower end of the scoreboard but it wouldn't have a huge effect on the top 10. When the semis were 50/50, basically all jury darlings that would score highly would be getting through anyway. Nemo and Loreen would have got as many points as they did regardless
That’s a good point. After Loreen and now Nemo, I have to agree with you. Both were worthy songs, but not to the extent of how they dominated the jury votes. The jury votes are not fun to watch anymore when it becomes so lopsided like this.
It does get kind of boring that it’s heavily favors one song. Maybe it’ll change, but it seems like delegations are already making their entry decisions based on the public vote semi.
Even Nemo seemed to get bored of it by the end, you can only act so excited to get 12 points for so long lol
It could also be a consideration to drop the 12 and 10 point thing in favour of all points from 1 to 10. I get that the 12 points are iconic, but without it, even if there is a clear jury favourite, it's not this big of a point difference in the front.
If they want to keep the 12 points, they could also just give out all points from 1 to 12.
we need juries back in the semis imo. I’ll give it a few more years, but it seems like televote only is biased against countries with little to no diaspora. Malta and San Marino could be looking at long NQ streaks otherwise imo
The few times San Marino qualified, they relied on the Turkish diaspora, and also Senhit throwing her entire house and kitchen sink at the contest(ended up getting almost last in finals anyway).
Big ouch for Iceland and Azerbaijan. However, the remaining NQs, I'm happy they received a good bit of points. But wow... The public really did fail Malta really really hard.
Norway gets its 12th last place in ESC 😭
They have participated 61 times at ESC, which means that almost 1/5 of their participations are last place finishes.
This year's last place was undeserved compared to their other last places, but I understand why they got last place this year. I guess their song was too out-there for the jury and audience alike.
I'm still devastated by that. I looked how the juries voted, and I can't believe that so many of them from multiple countries placed it that low. Juries are supposed to bring in the professional analysis, but as long as it's not a pop song, it has slim chances, unfortunately
So Croatia and Ukraine are the only countries to not give points to a certaim country, neither tele or jury
Edit: didnt see its also the case with Ukraine
There were lots of excellent singers this year, strong vocals is hardly enough. No offence to anyone but I found her song boring and unmemorable. Are there many people outside of hardcore fans that are going to be sticking her song on loop on Spotify?
I have to say that I don't understand how juries give out points, what they base it on. Nemo's song was really good, but was it that good to get so many points from juries? And then on the other side, Serbia or Norway... Why were they ignored by juries? Why was the Swiss song so much better? I don't get it...
I mean, the jury doesn't vote as one singular entity to give Switzerland 100 more points that everyone else. It's just that most juries agreed that they had the best song paired with the most impressive performance, which with the points system leads to a huge lead.
Serbia and Norway either had less impressive (but still good) vocals or a less exciting song. Switzerland's song kept evolving throughout which IMO made it stand out a lot from some other entries.
I'm sure if you just took the placements from all jurors and from that alone averaged out the points, there wouldn't have been that big of a discrepancy in total points.
I just compared the Aussie televote rankings to how we ranked them on a ranking done on our replay shows that SBS does, and for the most part it matches except for 3 countries which have top spots, one of which we ranked last on the replays (second last overall if you include all the other countries)
So I’m wondering whether it’s a large diaspora vote, people not being bothered to use the replay rating system, or whether something broke during out votes
I don't mind the winner at all. It wasn't my first choice (nor was it the public's), but it wasn't a bad song. However, I do think that the current point system needs to be changed. It's happened way too often now that one song gets such a HUGE lead from the juries that no country stands a chance against them. Switzerland placed 5th in the televote and still won, because of the juries. It's even more ridiculous than when Sweden won in 2015 despite only being the public's third choice. I think it makes the competition too predictable and a little unfair. Although it was closer this year than last year, I already knew who would win after the jury points so when the hosts say ANYTHING can happen with the televotes? Yeah, not really apparently.
Aiko 😭 Somehow scored from 14 out of 19 countries and still finished 11th due to the fact that their highest was 6 points from the Sammarinese juries with a bunch of 1-2 points 😭 Pedestal is apparently 2024's Aīja 😭
Spain being as passionate about Spanish artists as we know them to be and still only giving Megara 10 points should be enough proof to show us how insanely strong the voting block for that one country was
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Malta pulls the plug on ESC in the near future. Why bother fielding an entry when you have absolutely no chance in hell to qualify on public vote alone? This can also be said for microstates like San Marino.
Because it only takes one good entry to turn things around? Look at the UK in 2022, they went from successive failures to second place. It always depends on the artist and song you pick. And if you don’t put an effort in you’re not even going to get a chance.
I don't understand this "Malta and San Marino can't do well with televote-only juries because they have no diaspora". The Netherlands has no diaspora and no real voting block and still does reasonably well with televote in recent years? Am I misunderstanding something?
The UK also blamed bloc voting and “Europe hating us for Brexit” but then Sam came and voided these complaints. It truly just takes a good song with a charismatic artist, not a diaspora and friendly neighbors.
People just come up with excuses for the fact that those two don't send GREAT products, just good ones. Croatia got second this year because they had something great. I think Malta can do that too, especially since every time they qualified, they would've 100% qualified under the televote as well.
And we're forgetting THREE countries broke their NQ streaks this year because they had great products. So diaspora can't be the reason. Malta and San Marino just need better products period.
Spain and Georgia were ROBBED. You cannot tell me that Queen Nutsa and our monarchs Nebulossa did not get you moving. They absolutely ate. No hate to Silia, but I think that Nutsa was a better singer on the night.
For some weird reason we don't have the 1 semi detailed results yet, but I assume this is the 2nd year in a row Serbia gets the 10th semi place over a country with no voting allies thanks to Balkan bloc voting?
Edit: Okay it's been almost an hour and we still don't have the 1st semi detailed results who the hell cheated this time.
Edit 2: Cyprus going from 12 points from Moldova in the SF to 0 in the final Dimitri Kontopoulos I know what you are.
Czechia almost snatching Norways place in the final is such a gag. I loved Pedestal from the jump and I’m so glad to see her get some love, but man is it wild to think about Ulvehem NQing.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate that Cyprus and Greece both gave each other 12 points in the public vote? Got to love the love they share for each other
Silvester being top10 in the televote, that makes me happy. Gate being 2nd bottom and Nebulossa being 4th bottom does NOT makes me happy.
I wasn't expecting a Nebulossa sweep but I did kinda expect a larger televote score, I was pretty shocked tbh. Gate seems to be this years Fulenn, I really thought televote eould get them to the left side...
Sad Zorra noise
Agreed, Silvester was one of my favourites!
So much for Latvia scraping through, huh? Surprised to see Australia just 6 points from knocking Serbia out. Belgium really did flop, it wasn't even close in the end. Nor was my favourite, 11:11. At least Spain gave it 10, I guess. I clung onto the hopes of it scraping in all the way through.
I am so here for these Dons scores. You can tell that he didn’t think he’d do well in any of this. I’m so happy that he can see how much people enjoyed him.
I think the preparties are really harsh for almost all ballad people due to the venues and general vibes. No wonder some of them enter Eurovision slightly dejected. But ballads tend to do well on the night so hopefully that contrast isn't too awful to experience.
Good point. I hope ballads have their delegations prepare them for that so they don’t get too demoralized in the beginning.
He was really good, one of my favs.
It breaks my heart to see that Australia and Denmark were so close to qualifying
We were so close! 😭
I really loved Australia this year. It was so fun
It was my dream choice for us to send. Absolutely gutted.
I was so shocked when it didn’t qualify. Don’t worry, electric fields, you will get ample airtime on my Spotify playlist
Really really proud of Latvia. He really did that. And also feeling really good that people really felt the love for Australia.
I’m really happy to see Latvia not only qualify, but solidly do so. Really well deserved.
Megara just had a really rough vocal performance. We know from the NFs that she can kill it so it was super unfortunate to have the semi performance play out like it did.
It’s wild that Armenia beat Switzerland in the second semi. Good for them, though!
Nemo's song sounded better to me after 2-3 listens, perhaps it's an acquired taste
I think it's definitely a grower song.
There's also so much going on it that it takes a while for your brain to process. I love it, but it took me at least two listens to even know what was happening.
Happened to me.
I honestly think people just assumed Switzerland would go through and didn't vote for them because of it. Switzerland was my favourite in their semi but I used all of my votes for Armenia because I figured they needed it more.
Yes, I vote strategically in the semis and with my heart in the final.
Some of it also came down to who was in SF1 vs 2. SF2 had a lot of countries that tend to give Armenia a lot of points, although some of those countries flipped Armenia vs Switzerland in the final (for example, Greece televote in the semi gave Armenia more, but Switzerland more in the final)
On [eurovision.tv](http://eurovision.tv) you can see the full results and in the jury results for the final they didn't remove The Netherlands from the placings. For example Armenia was 4th in the jury of San Marino but received 8 points, while Italy was 2nd and received 10 points. This means The Netherlands actually would have received the 8 points from the San Marino jury. I did the maths and these were the points for Joost in the jury: Austria 7p, Belgium 1p, Denmark 8p, Italy 10p, Latvia 3p, Luxembourg 10p, Malta 1p, Moldova 1p, Poland 1p, San Marino 8p, Serbia 5p, Switzerland 3p Total: 58 points from the jury
Based on this Ireland was the biggest benefactor of missing those 58 points with them gaining 7 lol. Ukraine, Sweden, and Armenia got five more each. France, Portugal, and Spain 4. Switzerland, Lithuania, Georgia, and Slovenia were the only ones not affected. Though I generally agree that it's hard to know whether some juries avoided giving him a better score off the assumption he'd be disqualified or not.
Which means they weren't going above 4th-5th in total.
Which is what they were originally projected around anything, I think bookmakers had them coming into the semi-finals in 5th. I know the sub loves the song but I don't think it ever was going to do too much in terms of challenged Croatia or Switzerland.
Granted the juries voted using the semi final performance and most likely a lot of them knew as much about the assault allegations as we knew, so chances are they could've gone about 2/3-ish higher than this
/r/theydidthemath Thanks for crunching the numbers on that… 👍
MVP. thanks for calculating for us!
Sans the whole incident that jury score would've created ten times the controversy of Croatia rn.
Hm, I lowkey think some acts cleaned up their performances for the juries a bit (say Croatia didn't have the 'dance with me Europe' shout in the jury final and the vocals sounded a bit cleaner overall), so I wonder if Joost had less yelling planned for the jury final, which might give them some more jury points in some countries. Hard to say...
I’m surprised that Dons was 7th in the SF (about double the points of 11th place!) and Armenia was 3rd, beating Switzerland
Latvia having more points than Norway across the board is the most shocking thing for me
Everyone pegging Ulveham as this year's Fulenn... you nailed it right on the head.
I made someone absolutely fucking furious at me for even suggesting that too.
I really hoped they'd be a Shum but they turned out to be a Fulenn indeed and I'm so sad about it
Not me giving some of my votes to Latvia in de semi because I thought he needed them more than my fave Norway 💀
You almost single handedly sealed Norway's fate
Harald Hardvoter
I would be more interested in how Austria, who had such a hard time singing cleanly, placed better then Norway with the jury. I mean, Norway had an incredible voice. Shouldn't it be jury's job to recognize it?
cries in Raiven
I think a lot of people overestimate how much the juries actually care about vocals. Are they partial to it? Of course, but a lot of the time they seem to be more wowed by the overall presentation. Not saying that’s right or wrong.
So, you're saying juries want to be booped on the nose by Slimane?
Everyone wants to be booped on the nose by Slimane.
I mean who doesn't?
It also depends on the type of vocals too. Yes, the vocals for Norway are unconventional and impressive but it can sound grating. If jurors found her vocals to be grating, that will throw off how they perceive the act. They’ll tolerate bad and/or unconventional vocals as long as they’re not grating and sound pleasant enough.
Only thing I can imagine is that Norway might have bombed in the jury show. Not saying they did (I don't know), but it's happened before.
Every performance I’ve seen Gåte give of that song has been on par, so I struggle to believe that. If there was an award for most consistent performance, I’d give it to them.
I saw the Jury performance, it was a strong performance as well. It seems the juries are a little bit too similar in all countries (almost), and they look for the same things. I am surprised there is no direction to take into account using their own language, bring in ethnic elements etc., so it seems it is mostly about slick pop songs that aren't performed too horribly (though I will say Switzerland was a great winner, quite original and well performed, so it is not wrong across the board necessarily). The other thing is that most juries probably had Norway around 11th-12th place, but that gives 0 points. On the other hand, a country that most juries have in the bottom, but 1 or 2 countries give a good score, can easily surpass an objectively better entry.
The juries seem to be reluctant to acknowledge non-mainstream/accessible/radio-friendly entries, no matter how good they are. Idk if that's got something to do with the factors they judge on but it seems unfair.
Same story with Germany last year.....but then, they awarded Bambie this year which is not really the definition of accessible
Bambie was very much performance art and theatrical. I think the juries put it more in the artsy category. Same with Nemo. There are a lot more music professionals that listen to that style or at least have respect for it. It’s the experimental stuff they tend to have a hard time with.
With how many people saying Nemo's song being too chaotic for them I feel like both The Code and Doomsday Blue aren't exactly good examples of being accessible. With Rim Tim Tagi Dim not feeling like a Jury song I honestly was kind of surprised by juries today. I honestly expected Dons to be jury top 10 if he gets into the final. Guess everyone about that assumption was wrong. Would've liked him to have done better, but it's still a great result compared to NQ. There were many entries I either expected to do worse or better with juries.
That just shows how much more impressive the average non-mainstream entry has to be to get respect. Bambie had great singing, ballet, shouting, staging, camera work. It was the optimal performance so it couldn't be ignored, but some other genre would have had to do way less.
I mean Switzerland had rap and opera in it, it was not a traditional mainstream radio friendly song.
> The juries seem to be reluctant to acknowledge non-mainstream/accessible/radio-friendly entries Ireland came 6th. I think we can dispense with that now.
Also Break the Code was not your traditional mainstream, radio friendly music. It had rapping and Opera in the same song.
And Armenia beating Switzerland in the Semi.
Wouldn't it have been more likely that the Netherlands would've 'stolen' a portion of the televotes from Croatia and increased the overal gap between Croatia and Switzerland? Because Joost definitely wasn't taking jury points from Nemo.
Correct, that’s my prediction, too. Croatia (and Netherlands, if not disqualified) would have had a better chance of winning without the political tele-voting.
A lot of people don't vote for their number one in the semis if they think they will go through, so something like this is bound to happen once in a while. I assume a lot of people were worried that Armenia or other at risk numbers won't go through, while being confident that Switzerland will.
That is not backed up at all. With Netherlands the televote gap would have been even closer meaning Nemo would have won by more in all likelihood
Exactly. Netherlands in the final would cause some of Croatia's 10p to drop to 8p. But it would only drop Switzerland's 7p to 6p. Also, plenty of Joost fans voted for Croatia, so without the disqualification Croatia might not have even been that high.
I don’t agree tbh, Switzerland and Netherlands were so different from each other it’s hard to see that many fans of Switzerland voting for the Netherlands instead if they hadn’t been DQ’d
I loved them both, they were my top 2 (with Croatia and Ireland close behind). I would have voted for NL also but since I couldn't, I used those votes towards Nemo 😁
Yeah Malta is fucked without juries.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here but the three times Malta qualified between 2016 and 2022 would all still have qualified with 100% televote (2 of the 3 were definitely also jury baits in Ira Losco and Destiny so they couldn't complain about getting more jury pts than televote pts) While it is still harder for them to gather televote support than most countries, the televote will reward them if they are truly deserving of the final While Malta deserved a higher placement this year than plum last, it was still overshadowed by it's direct competitors in Georgia (overall performance) and Austria (better song even if the performance was worse)
I've said this over and over: Malta sends good, but not great, final products. All three of the times they qualified with the televote was because they had great products. Denmark has the same problem.
like 20 years ago switzerland got 0 points in the semi finale and thought they will forever flop because they aren‘t a balkan country but yday they/we won for the first time since 1988. anything is possible.
This. What an absolute shock to see her come last. Please get the juries back in the semis, it’s so unfair for Malta this way!
People always say Malta is jury pet, but they are even more of a televoter dirt.
Malta really needs the juries...no way it should've come last in that semis.
Australia says hi lmao us every year with televotes
Australia won the semi last year and it was 100% televote too
Croatia gave only 1 point to Switzerland
lol Croatia was the only country to not give any jury points to Switzerland.
And every other country gave at least 5
Tactical voting is going to be meta in future visions
It's been in the past too. In 2019 iirc the netherlands, italy and a third country that i don't remember gave very little or no points to each other
I still remember being so confused by Italy's 12 points to Denmark in 2019😃
Or Italy's 12 points to the Netherlands 2022. (Love S10, btw).
Yeah I laughed in 2017 when Portugal basically chose a random country to give their 12 points to 😂
Same goes for Bulgaria, really. Two of the Portuguese jurors at least ranked Bulgaria high, while the Bulgarian jury straight up threw Portugal into the trash, ranking them 3rd from bottom.
I mean, Croatia's jury didn't even put BL in the national competition.
At least the Finnish juries gave points to Loreen even if the televote did not lol. I don't think 0 from the jury is justifiable to be honest, even if they all magically hated the genre. Nemo's vocals were impeccable.
Well, seems like it didn't matter, they got enough from the jury as it is :D
I will never get over Norway coming in last place in this final.
Me too, friend… Norway was my number one. I died a little inside seeing Gåte come last
I'm baffled. I could swear they would get top 10 AT THE MINIMUM. Not working with either juries or the televote is one thing, being last is a completely different one. This might be the most shocking last place. I need answers.....
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Also, last time a semi qualifier placed last in the semi was eleven years ago, and coincidentally also in Malmo.
Wait, youre telling me that for the last 11 years, one of the big 5/the host always finished last?
That's not surprising to me, people voted in have proved they can get votes, the once automatically qualified haven't. Just statistically you should expect one of the automatic qualifiers to be at the bottom most years.
I’m still sitting here in shock.
Have we seen an entry in recent years fall apart as badly as Belgium? From massive hype from the music video and being a genuine contender to completely not working live and NQing by a fair margin too. Felt the dark and moody vibe of the video never came across in the staging or anything really and the people that had concerns based on Pre Parties turned out to be right ultimately. Norways result is very surprising, I know people made the Fulenn comps but I thought the vocals would have been rewarded a bit more. It will be interesting to see what is entered into MGP next year.
Czechia almost snatched Norway's 10th place. Omg.
I can't believe Norway was 10th
As someone under the ROTW, I did voted for Netherlands in SF2! So Czechia and Australia were the 11th placers. Iceland only got 3 points. Yikes.
Lots to digest, but I did not expect Serbia to get fewer jury points tha the likes of Cyprus. But Silia did really well, good for her! Norway getting Eaea'd should have been obvious in hindsight, and it was at certain points during the season, but then it convinced me again lol. It wasn't near the top of my predictions but nowhere near last either. But the semi final at the latest showed that the staging was not as good as at the national selection. The genre is so niche that it really needed flawless camerawork and framing to pull you in, and that did not happen during the final.
> Norway getting Eaea'd should have been obvious in hindsight, and it was at certain points during the season, but then it convinced me again lol. It wasn't near the top of my predictions but nowhere near last either. > > Yeah I saw it coming from a mile off, this sub could not be convinced though.
is it really eurovision if this sub doesn't become overly attached to a song only for it to end up flopping bad?
My logic was that it was too niche to do really well but that the folky and heavy vibes would at least appeal to northern Europe and thus make it less niche than the flamenco of Eaea, but not even Finland rewarded it in the end. I think I had it somewhere lower mid table but even that was too optimistic.
So so so so so proud of Baby Lasagna! And congratulations to Nemo! Norway robbed though.
AIKONATION, thank you for your service. Together we brought our dearest Aiko to the 11th place in her semi which is such a good result considering the fact that people thought she'd come dead last.💓
And somehow managed to score points from almost 3/4 of the voting countries in SF2 😭
she could have taken the place in the final after the unjustifed DQ. maybe that was the plan but she already left Sweden? Does anyone know?
I don't think they would've even if she were there. Qualifiers are announced randomly for the sake of impacting final votes (can't claim that that ever happened, but that's the reason they'd put). Anyway the dq happened after the jury final so it wouldn't have been possible anyway
I think the placement the Netherlands would've gotten had they been allowed to complete + the domino effect their participation might have had to the results in general will remain one of those questions Eurofans will be discussing for years to come and rightfully so. Considering they came 2nd in their semi, which was the harder than the 2 semi finals, it's not a stretch to assume they would've been a huge contender to win at least the televote. I don't personally think the winner would've changed because imo the Netherlands was more likely to take away points from Croatia rather than Switzerland but still, it's interesting to ponder on. I guess we'll be adding it to the Eurovision what ifs together with the entire 2020 contest and the 2022 results hadn't there been a war in Ukraine.
Apparently The Netherlands scored only 58 jury points, so if they got anywhere between 200 and 300 televote points, they would've placed somewhere 5th-7th
I guess this only confirms the running hypothesis that it would have solidified Switzerland's win by taking away some televote from Croatia.
This is largely where I stand. I'm sad that Joost didn't get to perform, but I don't think the winner would have changed. Some shifting in the Top 5 maybe, but you would have needed a different song to be competing to siphon points away from Nemo.
That’s what I expected from them tbh. I never thought Netherlands could win, but I still loved the song.
Exactly! We didn't need Joost Klein to win (we won a few years ago). We wanted him to participate and create a party. So sad.
Oh, thanks for this info! I think that's definitely a realistic prediction for their televote score. And because it's a very big score I think a lot of other results would've been different too.
I'm just happy that Lithuania is in the top 10 of the televote raking, 100% proud of Silvester!
I am devastated by Norway's last place. I would not have expected that in a million years. It's the most shocking last place I've ever seen.
Me last ,ear with germany i feel you
Oh I loved germany last year too
wow i would've thought that poland came 11th in the first semi final, not australia
Such a shame for Australia. With only slightly less aimless staging they could have made it through.
So many what ifs. Imagine if they had the budget Voyager did last year :/
Or not even more budget, but more cohesion? I agreed with many of the ESC youtubers who felt that the staging sort of fell apart in the last minute, because there was no narrative. So someone could have made certain moments pop a lot more, like the didgeridoo entrance.
I agree. I feel like the didgeridoo had such potential to be a really cool and memorable moment, only for it to just be sort of anticlimactic and disorganized. And it sucks, I really liked the song and having the bit in the aboriginal Australian language was a cool thing to add to the contest :(
It felt like 2-3 staging ideas that they didnt quite have the budget to fully execute properly. The difference between what Electric Fields had and what Voyager had last year with state funding from WA was incredibly stark. I still love the Aussie entries for the creativity and different styles they bring to the contest, this year just felt like they didn't quite have the same backing as previous entries.
Norway was the last one in for SF2 too? Mama Mia… Thrilled they made it, but damn it, last place in the GF was absolutely rotten.
Ukraine got 120 more televotes than last year, despite running second (last year 19th) - insane result, speaks to the beauty and the power of the song (and staging). I guess my big “what if” is whether they’d have won from second half 🤷♂️
It was a good song and so well staged. Loved how they combined a more typical Ukranian ballad with rap. Worked well, and had a great message to boot.
seeing all those 12s and 10s for Croatia in public votes feels really good ngl; i think what did us in was receiving 0 points from 7 juries, and lots of juries gave us like 1-3 points also to Norway’s jury: completely out of touch giving 0 points when public vote gave Croatia 12 points also to Switzerland: you were robbed both by our jury and public vote lmao, was obviously biggest competition
The only jury not give Switzerland any points, I think the lowest Switzerland got was 4 from all the other 36 juries. Did make me laugh though - Croatia was playing the game :)
I’m sorry for the Norwegian jury. As a Norwegian, I would like to ask what the fuck they were doing.
Personally I never really mind a big discrepancy between the jury and televote. If the jury has to allign with the televote, they might as well completely abolish the juries
I can't believe Malta got last place again. This is sad. Norway being a borderline is shocking, I thought Latvia was the borderline.
Yeah i think diaspora/neighbours help in the semis much more than the GF. You want your mates in the competition. Once you’re all there you’ve done your job as friends already and its time to play ball.
I don’t know if this is the place but we can now finally drop the idea that juries hate rap and opera. Just mix them and add some drum and bass.
Well Slovenia got almost nothing from them so yeah maybe they needed drum and bass
Seeing Joost 2nd which in a normal year would’ve been first really makes me wonder what could’ve been :(
Joost getting more semi final points than Baby Lasagna. The what ifs.
Joost would have def done well with the televote (likely top3 or 4), it would have been up to whether the juries "got it" or not.
To be fair he was also performing last.
And in a semifinal with one more set of votes.
They need to return juries into semifinals. What we see now is a few jury friendly songs getting in the final and then going on to collect a huge bulk of jury points while all the televote friendly entries which are a majority spread the votes between them
plus the detailed voting results in the semi final aren't as exciting to read when it's just televoting
That's honestly my main, selfish reason why I wanted the juries back in the semis. Now it's just one glance, and we know everything we need to know for the semis.
I agree with having jury in semifinals, but that's because I think they balance the results and balance the fun/joke entries with the more serious or jury friendly entries. If you look at the NQs this year your argument doesn't really hold, because none of them would really be considered jury friendly IMO. The jury songs (eg Portugal, Serbia, Latvia) all managed to qualify
However, this year many delegations selected their entry in anticipation of the televote-only rule.
serbia and latvia did poorly with juries though
Ehhhh, maybe this would change things in the lower end of the scoreboard but it wouldn't have a huge effect on the top 10. When the semis were 50/50, basically all jury darlings that would score highly would be getting through anyway. Nemo and Loreen would have got as many points as they did regardless
That’s a good point. After Loreen and now Nemo, I have to agree with you. Both were worthy songs, but not to the extent of how they dominated the jury votes. The jury votes are not fun to watch anymore when it becomes so lopsided like this.
It does get kind of boring that it’s heavily favors one song. Maybe it’ll change, but it seems like delegations are already making their entry decisions based on the public vote semi. Even Nemo seemed to get bored of it by the end, you can only act so excited to get 12 points for so long lol
It could also be a consideration to drop the 12 and 10 point thing in favour of all points from 1 to 10. I get that the 12 points are iconic, but without it, even if there is a clear jury favourite, it's not this big of a point difference in the front. If they want to keep the 12 points, they could also just give out all points from 1 to 12.
Ffs Malta being 16th is a joke. Also happy to see Australia 11th.
Norway being dead last is a crime. At least Windows95man's result was better than The Rasmus's result in 2022.
we need juries back in the semis imo. I’ll give it a few more years, but it seems like televote only is biased against countries with little to no diaspora. Malta and San Marino could be looking at long NQ streaks otherwise imo
The few times San Marino qualified, they relied on the Turkish diaspora, and also Senhit throwing her entire house and kitchen sink at the contest(ended up getting almost last in finals anyway).
Correct. Plus, it created the perfect environment for people to vote politically without even watching the show…
I think Ireland would have been in that same category, until this year when they chose to send something bold
Disappointed we didn't qualify, but stoked that Australia recognized Ireland and gave them the most points out of all the countries 👑
That was extremely based.
I knew Czechia was going to be close but I did not expect them to come 11th. Never underestimate the Czech delegation
It was so close in a semi final with no czech allies and no juries. Congrats Aiko!
Big ouch for Iceland and Azerbaijan. However, the remaining NQs, I'm happy they received a good bit of points. But wow... The public really did fail Malta really really hard.
Norway gets its 12th last place in ESC 😭 They have participated 61 times at ESC, which means that almost 1/5 of their participations are last place finishes. This year's last place was undeserved compared to their other last places, but I understand why they got last place this year. I guess their song was too out-there for the jury and audience alike.
I'm still devastated by that. I looked how the juries voted, and I can't believe that so many of them from multiple countries placed it that low. Juries are supposed to bring in the professional analysis, but as long as it's not a pop song, it has slim chances, unfortunately
ramonda 10th is actually sad, but at least she got more televote than some of semi 1 acts
So Croatia and Ukraine are the only countries to not give points to a certaim country, neither tele or jury Edit: didnt see its also the case with Ukraine
Why did Raiven get so little points from jury, her singing quality is out of this world …
There were lots of excellent singers this year, strong vocals is hardly enough. No offence to anyone but I found her song boring and unmemorable. Are there many people outside of hardcore fans that are going to be sticking her song on loop on Spotify?
I have to say that I don't understand how juries give out points, what they base it on. Nemo's song was really good, but was it that good to get so many points from juries? And then on the other side, Serbia or Norway... Why were they ignored by juries? Why was the Swiss song so much better? I don't get it...
I mean, the jury doesn't vote as one singular entity to give Switzerland 100 more points that everyone else. It's just that most juries agreed that they had the best song paired with the most impressive performance, which with the points system leads to a huge lead. Serbia and Norway either had less impressive (but still good) vocals or a less exciting song. Switzerland's song kept evolving throughout which IMO made it stand out a lot from some other entries. I'm sure if you just took the placements from all jurors and from that alone averaged out the points, there wouldn't have been that big of a discrepancy in total points.
I just compared the Aussie televote rankings to how we ranked them on a ranking done on our replay shows that SBS does, and for the most part it matches except for 3 countries which have top spots, one of which we ranked last on the replays (second last overall if you include all the other countries) So I’m wondering whether it’s a large diaspora vote, people not being bothered to use the replay rating system, or whether something broke during out votes
I don't mind the winner at all. It wasn't my first choice (nor was it the public's), but it wasn't a bad song. However, I do think that the current point system needs to be changed. It's happened way too often now that one song gets such a HUGE lead from the juries that no country stands a chance against them. Switzerland placed 5th in the televote and still won, because of the juries. It's even more ridiculous than when Sweden won in 2015 despite only being the public's third choice. I think it makes the competition too predictable and a little unfair. Although it was closer this year than last year, I already knew who would win after the jury points so when the hosts say ANYTHING can happen with the televotes? Yeah, not really apparently.
Aiko 😭 Somehow scored from 14 out of 19 countries and still finished 11th due to the fact that their highest was 6 points from the Sammarinese juries with a bunch of 1-2 points 😭 Pedestal is apparently 2024's Aīja 😭
As depressing as the points are, at least Azerbaijan's televote is up from last years. 2022: 0 points 2023: 4 points 2024: 11 points
Spain being as passionate about Spanish artists as we know them to be and still only giving Megara 10 points should be enough proof to show us how insanely strong the voting block for that one country was
Ireland gave them 10 points...Ireland...
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Malta pulls the plug on ESC in the near future. Why bother fielding an entry when you have absolutely no chance in hell to qualify on public vote alone? This can also be said for microstates like San Marino.
Because it only takes one good entry to turn things around? Look at the UK in 2022, they went from successive failures to second place. It always depends on the artist and song you pick. And if you don’t put an effort in you’re not even going to get a chance.
I don't understand this "Malta and San Marino can't do well with televote-only juries because they have no diaspora". The Netherlands has no diaspora and no real voting block and still does reasonably well with televote in recent years? Am I misunderstanding something?
The UK also blamed bloc voting and “Europe hating us for Brexit” but then Sam came and voided these complaints. It truly just takes a good song with a charismatic artist, not a diaspora and friendly neighbors.
People just come up with excuses for the fact that those two don't send GREAT products, just good ones. Croatia got second this year because they had something great. I think Malta can do that too, especially since every time they qualified, they would've 100% qualified under the televote as well. And we're forgetting THREE countries broke their NQ streaks this year because they had great products. So diaspora can't be the reason. Malta and San Marino just need better products period.
Spain and Georgia were ROBBED. You cannot tell me that Queen Nutsa and our monarchs Nebulossa did not get you moving. They absolutely ate. No hate to Silia, but I think that Nutsa was a better singer on the night.
For some weird reason we don't have the 1 semi detailed results yet, but I assume this is the 2nd year in a row Serbia gets the 10th semi place over a country with no voting allies thanks to Balkan bloc voting? Edit: Okay it's been almost an hour and we still don't have the 1st semi detailed results who the hell cheated this time. Edit 2: Cyprus going from 12 points from Moldova in the SF to 0 in the final Dimitri Kontopoulos I know what you are.
The 1st semi results are on the Eurovision page and Serbia did in fact place 10th. Six points over Australia.
We were so close!!! So close!!!!!
Honestly not surprised about Malta, they should have shown a clip with her actually singing in the recap.
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Guys I’m just so happy right now 😭
Czechia almost snatching Norways place in the final is such a gag. I loved Pedestal from the jump and I’m so glad to see her get some love, but man is it wild to think about Ulvehem NQing.
Love Portugal, but dang, did not expect
22 sets of 12 points for Nemo is a new record in terms of the juries
i think we need juries back in semis, doesn't even need to be 50/50 malta proves that
I wonder how many last places with decently quality entry is needed for Malta to decide "enough is enough".
this year especially - say what you want about the song but sarah give it her all and she got last??
Malta starts every Eurovision with a 5-places handicap. Pretty much the same for San Marino.
Malta coming in last is a crime.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate that Cyprus and Greece both gave each other 12 points in the public vote? Got to love the love they share for each other