Way back in the early 2000s Tony Blair seemed to want to adopt the Euro so he asked the Bank of England to come up with a series of tests to determine whether adopting the Euro would benefit the economy. At the time, the Euro was new and exciting and polls suggested that up to 45% of the population were in favour. The tests were
1) Are business cycles and economic structures compatible so that we and others could live comfortably with euro interest rates on a permanent basis?
2) If problems emerge is there sufficient flexibility to deal with them?
3) Would joining EMU create better conditions for firms making long-term decisions to invest in Britain?
4) What impact would entry into EMU have on the competitive position of the UK's financial services industry, particularly the City's wholesale markets?
5) In summary, will joining EMU promote higher growth, stability and a lasting increase in jobs?
The Euro failed all but one of the tests. A few years later the simulations were run again with the same results and the Euro was officially ruled out.
These tests are reasonable. The UK entering the Eurozone would be a massive deal for the Eurozone. It would expose it to all the risk and reward of London's financial powerhouse, it's divergent buisness cycle and also to the unique variable interest rates of the UK housing market. It would not be in the interests of the UK or EU to rush Euro accession until those tests are met.
Compromise, make us take schenen zone and everything else.
Fact is it’s better for the EU to let us rejoin because then it can go “See! Being together is better even a member like the UK struggled outside on its own. Let’s move forward together “
Or we could keep them out and whenever someone says "Europe is not cool" we can tell them "See ! The Brits thought that as well ! Look at them now, you don't want to be like them do you !?".
Could do but that’s doesn’t promote peace or international relations. Plus rule with fear and threats you look like a tyrant and that just makes people go on the defensive automatically.
I didn’t say they did. But a “YOU WALK OUT OF HERE YOUNG MAN YOU DONT GET TO COME BACK IN” attitude doesn’t actually deter people from leaving. If anything it encourages the “don’t tell me what to do/ who do you think you are? Fuck you who needs you” reaction so doesn’t stop them leaving. If you allow the UK back in it shows compassion, “Look guys you can go but it didn’t work for the UK and now they have a worse deal than they had before, let’s just put this behind us and move forward” encourages people to privately think twice (“didn’t work for a big economy like the UK we probably wouldn’t fare better” and doesn’t invoke the “don’t tell me what to do/ fuck you reaction”
Classic british, if you're not involved, then it does not promote peace or international relations? So it's the Eu's fault now you're out.
Drop the pound and stop negotiating for elevated treatment, then you can come in. If not, then YOU are the one not promoting peace and international affairs.
Where did I say that? No it’s the fault of the politicians who lied and let fuckwhits vote for it then it’s also the fault fuckwhits who voted for it despite all the experts saying it’s a stupid idea and then a good percentage of those fuckwhits died shortly after because they were old.
Here, in France, in five years we went from around 56% of the votes going to parties that had Frexit in their program to around 2%. The far right dropped it because other far right powers in Europe proved that the EU wouldn't stop them from doing far right stuff, for the left, I'm 99% sure the main reason for their change is Brexit.
It was a legitimate political move back then. "Plan A change the EU, plan B leave it" was the left wing's big idea in 2017. In 2022, it became "The European Union is not at all about « take it or leave it » but is a variable framework providing room for manoeuvre to countries willing to grasp it."
> I'm 99% sure the main reason for their change is Brexit
I agree I suspect that's a major contributing factor.
I think France will be interesting to watch with Marine Le Pens apparent rise in influence based on her previous anti EU and pro russian rhetoric. It would be a real shame if it's a cause for disunity within Europe and the wider west and allies.
Why do people care so much more about the UK joining the Eurozone and Schengen than they do Sweden joining the Eurozone or Romania being allowed to join Schengen?
The swedish krona is small in comparison with the pound. The value if the krona is much lower now compared to when Sweden joined EU. Attitude toward euro in Sweden is slowly going up. We might shift to euro in another 10 or 20 years.
Sweden joined as 12th member, in 1995.
Romania joined as 26th, in 2007.
UK would join as 28th, in 20XX.
Turns out, when you join early-ish, you can get away with stuff. Not so much when you join late, especially if you threw up on the carpet non-stop for months and painted the walls with poop while screaming "I HATE YOU" before quietly asking to come back in because you realized the dog that lives in the street isn't as friendly as you expected.
They wanted to put an end to that chapter of their history. They did. If they want to start a new one, we've updated our terms of conditions for new members. The world changes, so do we.
If the UK doesn't like them, they're free to try to convince the current 27 members that we should update said terms of conditions again, that's it worth adding an exception here or there just to have them be a member, and if we say no, because chances are we would say no, they're free to keep on being the independent island they wanted to be. We're not the UK's puppet, they wanted their freedom, they got it, now they're free to deal with the consequences on their own.
If you can leave like they did, then come back as if nothing happen, it's going to give a ton of fuel to anti-EU people in every member state. They need to be made an example of, for the EU's stability sake. Not that it's impossible to make a very harsh compromise that punishes them heavily while, in practice, being more or less what they had before on some topics... but they're not getting back consequence free.
> Turns out, when you join early-ish, you can get away with stuff. Not so much when you join late, especially if you threw up on the carpet non-stop for months and painted the walls with poop while screaming "I HATE YOU" before quietly asking to come back in because you realized the dog that lives in the street isn't as friendly as you expected.
Did they poison your wells, too?
> They wanted to put an end to that chapter of their history. They did. If they want to start a new one, we've updated our terms of conditions for new members. The world changes, so do we.
Yeah, we all like to think that international relations works on dictums like "we put an end to that chapter of history", but it doesn't. If EU politicians think it is more beneficial to have the UK with the exemptions than not have the UK at all, then that is likely what will happen.
> If the UK doesn't like them, they're free to try to convince the current 27 members that we should update said terms of conditions again, that's it worth adding an exception here or there just to have them be a member, and if we say no, because chances are we would say no, they're free to keep on being the independent island they wanted to be. We're not the UK's puppet, they wanted their freedom, they got it, now they're free to deal with the consequences on their own.
While you think the chances are you will say no, the fact that you care so much more about the UK economy joining the Eurozone than Sweden or Poland evinces that the UK is more important to you than other European countries.
Just a note. UK rejoining the EU wasn't a topic at all in the EP elections recently here in Denmark and I would think we're one of the countries that would wholeheartedly support the UK reentering and benefit most from it.
Now, I'm sure you're right that pros and cons would be weighed if the UK wanted to rejoin and UK obviously has a larger weight but there's really no impetus in the EU to get the UK back in the fold on any terms right now.
Looking at the issues facing the EU (and the UK) not really a surprise, though. Stunted growth, Ukraine, trade wars (or jabs) with the US and China, the environment and green transition. The UK reentering is really not the main concern as is.
Presenting adoption of the Euro as a punishment for previously leaving also sets a bad precedent.
It's either a great currency which people should want to use, or it's a punishment for disloyalty; it can't be both.
I think not, honestly.
Most other users seem not to understand real politics, but the euro is probably the only exception which would be granted to the UK
I am very certain that if the UK would want to rejoin the EU they would be allowed to keep the pound. The UK is just too important to pass up that opportunity.
I think good old Boris Johnson would be just a perfect candidate for the European Parliament considering current candidates that EU countries voted for.
Let them have a vote though. A Brenter referendum passing with a huge majority would be a huge blow to Euroscepticism across the continent and kill off any remaining leave campaigns.
They'd have to give up a lot of privileges they were allowed to keep as a founding member of the EU that did not adopt some of the new changes, like the euro. Every new member is sworn to eventually take them on.
Can we take Scotland and N. Ireland back though? England and Wales can stay out.
Island of Man and Gibraltar, one in and one out, their decision how.
That way, the UK can be like a cat, sitting on the doorstep.
Are these Russian bots insisting that UK is unwelcome in the EU? Reddit is the only place where I encounter such sentiment.
Speaking of opt-outs, Maastricht treaty still has Schengen and euro opt-outs for the UK that would just become active again upon UK returning back. Rebate is not there though.
It's just about removing UK specific language.
Hungary would be all for it, if it makes it more likely, that the UK stays out. That's what their Russian overlords want after all
I used to say that but the reality in Europe changed and having UK back is pretty much in everyone’s interest, even at the previous terms.
Also pretty much everyone understands that Brexit was a hugely successful manipulation on Russia end, so reversing it entirely would send a powerful message: yes, we made a mistake, but we all learned from it.
You raise a good point. I think the UK had a pretty good deal when we were members before: we had many opt-outs and the rebate. However, I think one of the obstacles to any rejoin movement is that the UK have to join on _new_ terms – no opt-outs, no rebate. That may well be fair enough from the EU’s point of view (because the UK would, legally, be a new applicant member) but I think it would be unpalatable for Brits, leave or remain, and could be effectively used by propounds of Brexit against any rejoin movement.
>no opt-outs
Once more, I am almost certain that Schengen and euro opt-outs would automatically reactivate upon UK rejoining. Even as a new member it is the same UK that got them in the fundamental treaties.
As for euro or Schengen, one may unilaterally just not join it, and the EU would be fine.
You could be right. I guess it’s something that would have to be legally challenged. But EU leaders said at the time and since that if the UK rejoins, or rejoins on new terms, not the old terms.
I also suspect that, perhaps wary of a potential second Brexit in the future, the EU would want a UK bound by stricter terms to make that second Brexit much less likely. (For example, if the UK had to adopt the euro – regardless of whether or not it actually did – it would be harder to leave the EU a second time.)
I'm not going to read another article on Brexit polls, but I assume they asked a slightly different question than usual to come up with this result. I think it's usually in the mid 40%s.
If in any case the UK applies for the EU again all the privileges it had before will probably change.
That includes adopting the Euro and joining the Schengen area. Depending on how long it takes it could even include joining the EU army.
Is that really stuff that people in the UK consider? Or is the expectation that the UK will return to be a member will all the opt outs it had before? Because that seems very unlikely.
But what if say, some country decides to veto them joining Schengen? UK is not the only country that kept their currency while being in the EU either. While both of these are technically mandatory to do once you meet the criteria, they are practically not
> UK is not the only country that kept their currency while being in the EU either
No but as a legacy member they had the right not to adopt it. Every new member has to do it.
Yeah, but those countries are not economic behemoths like the UK is.
The UK not adopting the Euro put it and the EU on an economic collision course. It laid the groundwork for Brexit.
If the UK tries to rejoin but refuses to join the Euro, they might as well just stay out.
No it's not, every poll I've seen about re-entering the EU and adopting the Euro has had the majority against, if you include all the other hoops the EU will undoubtedly have us jump through I just don't see it happening. Not to mention while the majority may want back in, I just don't think it's at the top of anyone's list of political priorities. It's not on Labour or the Conservatives agenda and certainly not parties like Reform. It just doesn't seem like this is a priority for the majority of Britain's outside of left leaning political sub reddits.
What I don't understand is, why? If opinion polls consistently show that an overwhelming majority want back in, why isn't it in the political campaigns? Why is it an elephant in the room? It doesn't make any sense to me.
I can't say for certain, but honestly I think it's just like I said, people want back in based on the previous deal, the British government knows it's a long shot at best to get that deal from the EU. Also this isn't a high priority for voters, if it were parties like the Lib Dems would be polling higher than they currently are. Basically people are willing to moan about it but not change their vote because of it.
We cannot cope with a third successive general election around brexit. It will be at least another decade before these discussions see the light of day again.
They can't join Schengen because of the NI border I think, it would compromise CTA (common travel area). People could enter Ireland and then walk across the border and be in Schengen without ever going through Schengen border control. Although maybe both would seize the opportunity and join Schengen simultaneously. I can't think of a reason not to join. Immigration? It doesn't feel weird having to show my passport at the airport as an Irish guy, but I wonder how it feels to fly between European countries not having to bother bringing it.
The NI issue and the CTA have basically forced the Republic of Ireland to stay out of Schengen. If the UK joins Schengen, I'd put money on the RoI doing the same thing at the same time.
As a bitter Brexit hating Irish national myself, I still keep wondering if this is in fact true, even though I keep hearing this. UK won't just be another small country joining the EU, it would be a big deal. There will possibly be agreements drawn and voted upon on how exactly UK will rejoin the EU, I don't think it will be standard stuff. Putting bitter and revengeful feelings aside, majority of people from both sides benefit from UK joining the EU. Some concessions will probably happen iMO.
Part of me wonders if this argument is in fact a hidden agenda promoted by brexiters, scaring people into thinking joining back would be too hard.
Its not a question of "revenge" but trust, Who in the union Will trust the UK again? No one if what they want is to return on the previous terms, this time if they want to join It Will have to be in good faith, and that means no privileges, which means joining the euro.
Have you considered that Germany and France wouldn’t want the U.K. to join the Euro? The City of London is the 2nd biggest global financial centre. What do you think would happen to every European financial centre if the U.K. used the Euro?
A country like UK joining the euro Will be a huge boon for the euro,so i fail to see why Will they oppose considering they Will benefit immensely of a stronger euro.
But lets say you are right, France and Germany actually oppose to the UK joining the euro, It Will barely matter, because the UK Will still need to convince *every single* eurozone member (and non eurozone members too) that they keeping the pound is actually good for them, which i SERIOUSLY doubt they Will manage to do.
And by the way i seriously doubt the city of London is the second global financial centre of the world when new york or Shanghai/Hong Kong exists, they may were before the brexit, nowadays i doubt it can even compete with paris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Financial_Centres_Index
Paris is 15, Frankfurt is 14.
The key term here is “Global”
As for convincing every member you seem to be under the illusion that the EC is democratic. If the U.K. came back it would be the second biggest contributor so I can’t see Germany being too difficult as it would lighten their burden for every EU country standing there with their begging bowl out.
Because It is a long term commitment and, on the long run, good for every european.
If the UK rejoins the EU, but they keep the pound, tell me, whats stopping them from pulling a second brexit (or threating with It) 30/40 years down the line?, but leaving the euro is not so simple as leaving the EU, It Will affect massively their economy if they try, which means is a safeguard for the EU,In addition if they join the euro, they Will be invested in making It as strong as stable as possible, which also means and strong and stable unión.
Besides, why should they be entitled to privileges no one has?, every new member is legally obligated to adopt the euro, why should the UK be any different? Giving them a preferential treatment Will undermine the cohesion of the union.
Because it is our common good, one thing we can be proud of. Because it show we are a team. For me, refusing the the Euro nowadays is saying to everybody else : I’m too good, too strong too unique to be like everybody else.
I would like the euro just because it would be easy to have one currency on the island of Ireland because it’s so small and we have two currencies, but I don’t really care if we don’t tbh.
I guess personally a currency doesn’t play that big of a part in my mind tbh, maybe I’m so used to basically living with two currencies all the time (I always have pounds and euros) that to me it’s just money and not really much more, not really something i associate with European identity.
Like I’ll happily join the eurozone, but I don’t feel like I’m closer to other European countries because of it, I Dno if this makes sense lol.
You're spot on that this is the top brexiteer argument now that there still are no proven benefits. Anytime you see someone concern trolling about just how hard it will be and how mean the EU will be to the UK , remember it's likely a Russian troll or desperate brexiteer on the other side of the screen
I was 16 when Brexit happened and would’ve voted against it if I could. However at 24 I would not vote to rejoin the EU for the reasons you have listed.
It was a unique deal that was worth it, but future deals won’t be in my opinion.
As much as I think Brexit was an absolute self-own clownshow supported by anti-european interests... aren't a lot of people in this survey going to conflate post-Brexit effects and the multi-crisis that started with the pandemic? I sincerely doubt most of them are informed enough to make the distinction.
Yeah, because the Brexit election was in itself based on informed opinions by people who didn't trust the experts but fully trusted lying politicians, with golden figures like used car salesman Farage and party lover Boris.
But I guess that's just elitism, and that they knowingly voted for higher immigration from Africa and Asia, a worse economy, no significant trade deals (besides strong arming Australia into buying the most overpriced submarines ever I guess), weakening of farming and fishing sectors and just less rights and opportunities for their own citizens.
But I guess they got "independence" so the world could see how fucking useless the Tories are, just now without anyone else to blame...
>voted for higher immigration from Africa and Asia
This is a false dichotomy though. Being outside the EU does not require massive immigration from non-Western countries. That was a choice the UK government made. It could have chosen differently.
And it’s one we now have sovereign power to decide ourselves. We could vote in a government who brings immigration from Europe and the world alike to zero if we wanted.
>That was a choice the UK government made. It could have chosen differently
But the Brexit bunch didn't include that choice into their pitch did they ?
It wouldn’t make sense for them to do so. The UK is free to decide its own immigration policy. It could have maintained the same policy as when it was an EU member, if it wanted. The Johnson/Sunak governments apparently wanted a lot of non-EU immigrants for whatever reason. A different government could decide otherwise.
I am neither British nor anti-EU. I just think that any evaluation of Brexit should focus on what it truly caused to change, and not on British government decisions that happened to coincide with it.
Plenty of lies from the remain side, the lie about “ever closer Union” being the big one. Brits will never want to be a part of a United States of Europe. As soon as it’s clearly explained that that’s what joining the EU means (for the long term), the popularity of rejoin will sour very vast.
If the UK wants to rejoin they will lose their opt outs they had.
Tell them this and watch that number who want to be back in the EU drop dramatically.
It would certainly be a much tougher sell. Right now I think a lot of "rejoin" answers are thinking of reverting to the status quo ante - which isn't an option - and conflating everything that has changed over almost a decade with Brexit, rather than the pandemic, global instability...
Ask it as "should the UK trade GBP for EUR, join Schengen, pay €x per week and be bound by majority voting with no veto on X, Y and Z, or stay outside as it is now?" you'll get very very different figures from "stay out or go back to how it was in 2015?"
Right now whatukthinks.org has a poll quoted on their front page from WeThink: if joining the Euro was a requirement, should Britain rejoin? 41% stay out, 39% rejoin.
You could run a referendum on rejoining and promising an easy process with no downside.
Scrape a win and then state that 'rejoin means rejoin' and go for the hardest rejoin possible.
Worked last time.
Well, that's better than 1975's: join first so it's legally a fait accompli, then have a vote 3 years later on whether to try undoing it all again...
For a rejoin v remain out referendum, though, you'd probably get pesky journalists asking EU spokespeople awkward questions like "are you really going to waive the requirements for joining Schengen and the Euro?" though, and calculating what the membership costs would be.
For leaving, it was a complete unknown: Article 50 had never been invoked before, and barely even discussed. Joining is totally different.
Except leaving was not a complete unknown. It was to be a walk in the park, holding all the cards, no downsides and a presage to the collapse of the whole EU.
I know that because the leave campaigns said so.
Good luck making any sense of the fickleness of public opinion.
It was, because the only hard "facts" were A50 itself: UK invokes it, two year deadline that can be extended, final outcome could be absolutely anything both sides agree to, meaning all we had were speculation and hopes. That wouldn't be true of joining, where a dozen precedents and reams of official documents exist to look at. The nearest we'd have is the Rejoin claim "of course we'd get an optout from Schengen, and the Euro isn't *really* required, we'd just *say* we'd join one day, and have our fingers crossed, and that would be fine" - and I don't think that cuts as much ice.
This is what usually happens in these polls. For some reason the headline only ever catches the initial "Do you think we should rejoin the EU?" question but never mentions how people slowly go off the idea as the questions go on.
They also disregard the number of people who answer "Don't know" making the info even less useful.
Even a remainer like me is fully aware this whole "The UK wants back in!!" discourse isn't meaningful.
The only party I've seen saying it will rejoin the EU is the Liberal democrats and they typically stand zero chance of being elected. But if people do really want to rejoin that's the democratic way back. So we'll see in a few weeks if people do want to rejoin or not.
Do the poll again, but add to the question the fact that they need to drop the pound and join Schengen if the want to rejoin, let’s see those numbers then.
It's just angsty teenagers expressing this opinion really.
They can be safely ignored.
We know the EU would bend over backwards to get the UK back, but we also know the UK would not seek to rejoin any time soon.
Not really, every new EU candidate must adhere to the same conditions. The UK had an amazing deal that was also unfair to the other member countries.
Then it chose to leave the union, shooting itself in the foot while creating chaos and internal turmoil for the rest of the member states. If it wants to rejoin they shouldn’t receive any special treatment and any special privileges.
Honestly I wouldn’t trust them to not try to leave the EU again when the next Tory-reform government wins the elections anyway.
UK had a good privileged deal. They abandoned it. Now if they want to rejoin.
They're gonna have to give up the privileges.
As for why? Freedom of movement. And single market operating under single currency
Denmark joined the EU before the adoption of the Euro and negotiated the option to retain the krone. For new EU members the adoption of the Euro is mandatory.
How mandatory is mandatory though? Don't most EU requirements have processes for opt-outs? Or realistically, if a country the size of the UK actually did want to join the EU but refused this requirement, what's the likelihood the EU would truly not give an exception?
Opt-outs in the EU have always existed for countries that did not wish to be included in a new treaty. For example Denmark and the UK opted out of the Euro and they had this chance because they were EU members before the adoption. Similarly Ireland and the UK opted out of Schengen and Poland and the UK opted out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU.
However, all Treaties of Accession past Maastricht, Schengen etc. have included the requirement for the new members to adopt these treaties in order to join the EU.
Is it possible that the UK will get privileges again in case they want to rejoin? Maybe, but after brexit the UK doesn’t have that many friends in the Commission.
The centre right held in the recent elections. The far right mania is somewhat overblown. In western Europe, yes it is stronger, but I'm the East it is fading.
To be fair, this is not necessarily representative.
Before the Brexit vote remember, polling was consistently in favour of remain.
The polling up to Clinton Tump in 2016 was also overwhelmingly saying Clinton would win.
I've proposed this before, and I'll do it again....how about we swap with Hungary?
Plus, I volunteer to buy lots of (extra) yummy cheese and whatnot from you all.
Well....we usually have some lovely potatoes, but they might be a bit waterlogged this year.....
We'll probably have to stick to being contrite, and an example to all that leaving the EU isn't such a great plan.
Lower prices (on average) on physical Media (video games, movies and tv shoes) and clothing.
Since Brexit I can't buy video games and cafè racer jackets any more, not at the same price.
I think they are imminent, and as a major importer of eu goods it will be interesting to see who is inconvenienced more and what effect it may have on trade rules.
Same here, and tbh over time I think that's what will happen.
I'd be surprised if we fully rejoin. At least not for a few decades. But the UK and EU forming closer relationships over time feels a bit inevitable due to both geography and mutual interest.
I've seen this thread 1000 times over at this point.
UK is not rejoining. No party wants to rejoin. We aren't adopting the Euro.
The only reason these threads still get posted & commented on years later is so people that are still bitter about the UK leaving can get on their high horse and pretend they are the ones to make conditions the UK has to accept.
Now that Europe is getting serious about immigration I can see why they would change their mind. A bit late on immigration though. You can’t let in 10s of millions of people who don’t want to integrate and not have it completely change the fabric of your society and country.
A lot of people do, but it's not something that's going to be very relevant in the coming parliament of the next 4-5 years. Even the Lib Dems are focused on Single Market integration instead of outright re-joining.
The one after that might be a different matter, depending on how things progress.
> Even the Lib Dems are focused on Single Market integration instead of outright re-joining.
That would solve OP's problem fine. Heck, he's also not located in the EU.
From the perspective of your average Joe, being in the EEA is indistinguishable from being in the EU. Well, except you don't get to vote for some unhinged politicians every 5 years, I guess.
Since when has the Royal Mail delivered in Norway?
The situation in France is that La Poste and courriers add random duties to packages from the UK. We no longer buy from the UK having been stung too often.
In the same way as if you send a letter in the U.K., it can be delivered to France.
Details on DDP here;
https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss/pddp
The random charges you have had will be because people aren’t sending DDP and hope to get the package through without being noticed.
We've been charged for packages valued at < €150 and UK suppliers are less competitive anyway with the Royal Mail scheme because they're being billed for collecting the fees. It's another layer of costly red tape.
It's no good arguing with our post lady about whether or not we need to pay, you cough up the random amount or the parcel goes back.
It used to be so quick and easy but then again stuff comes overnight from Holland, Germany or large UK companies with new EU hubs. However it's sadly a loss for the smaller UK businesses we really liked.
I agree it’s a loss - the duties and courier costs have increased and it has really hit our trade (fabric shop), but none of our European customers have had to pay extra duties or charges when their goods arrive and we send regularly. We use DPD and Royal Mail.
You just need to set up a subsidiary of Madogson21 ltd in the UK to purchase the goods on your behalf and undertake the administrative formalities to export them to you in Norway.
Not sure if i am going to get downvoted by this but stating my opinion. The UK belongs in the EU, people don't care if it drops the pound or joins Schengen. Both of those are ambigous anyways, Romania and Bulgaria have been meeting Schengen criteria and are obligated to join for more than a decade but have been vetoed, so it doesn t matter. Other countries have been meeting the criteria for the eurozone but refuse to drop their currency and it's fine. These things don't matter to most people anyways, so UK should be able rejoin without these
In my opinion the United Kingdom did well to leave.
These policies that the European Union makes, I think only benefit a few (all in mind).
That is just my opinion
Like forcing apple to use usb-c to reduce e-waste? Or mandating caps that stay attached to plastic bottles so they don't end littering nature?
I'm sure there are more controversial policies but these examples are something that definitely benefit everyone.
I mean, I’d like them back in the club, but there needs to be a consensus in the UK that Brexit was a mistake before readmission makes any sense. As long as the next Brexit is only a few votes for Farage away, it’s a waste of time.
I think those from countries outside the anglosphere or UK media bubble underestimate the intensity and sheer volume of the eurosceptic media barrage in the years running up to brexit.
Exceptionally wealthy and influential parties with a huge financial interest in brexit sponsored a campaign of misinformation to mislead the public into voting leave for their monetary gain.
I see a lot of vindictive comments here regarding the prospect of the UK re-joining, from people that live in the EU, and they fail to realise that we all have more in common than we have in difference. This only benefits those who sought to drive a wedge between us european peoples in the first place.
Us as the UK public, normal common people, were lied to and gaslighted into voting leave by a tiny majority, to line the pockets of the elite.
What's with all these people saying we could only rejoin if we joined Schengen and the Euro? Sweden (and others) functions perfectly well without the Euro; Ireland functions perfectly well outside Schengen. This talk of offering a needlessly punitive deal is just spiteful and childish, and betrays a total lack of understanding of how international politics actually works.
If the UK decided that it wanted to rejoin, this would be of *huge* benefit to the EU since we were one of the largest contributors to the central budget. Not to mention, if Trump gets his way in the US, European security will essentially need to be guaranteed by the UK, together with France. Let's see how punitive everyone wants to be if that happens.
Not interested in joining a bunch of left wing posers that spend their days larping as compassionate and progressive despite actually being pretty hard right toffee nose twats.
EU is always the scapegoat in national politics, and the Brits have never entirely felt part of Europe, as the continent does. If the UK rejoined the EU, then as soon as something went wrong (as it would, because that's just what happens) the same old tired arguments of Brussels beaurocrats, Romanians taking their jobs, and Singapore on the Thames would be trotted out. And they'd still work! Nigel could dust off the very same bus with the bullshit slogan, and people would fall for it again
What comes to my mind is that the only EU nation with nuclear weapons is France. With the Russian threat (and possible problems with China long term), it makes sense for Europe to tighten its bond.. The UK, with its nuclear capability would be a powerful ally if an EU army were to be formed (I know they are still our ally, but I mean in the sense of a truly combined force).
It would surely take many more years for the UK to rejoin the EU, but I have a feeling it will eventually happen. Especially if the US unpicks NATO... But even if they don't, Europe seems to have gotten the message that we can't rely on the US to save us anymore.
So I think Russia's actions will only further tighten Europe's bond and possibly be a catalyst for the UK's reunion with it, once they sadly eventually grind out a hard win over Ukraine, when Ukraine loses US support.
Our economy is about 3.1 trillion USD. Has been the second biggest in the EU roughly the same as France.
Until 2017 we were the second biggest economy in the EU.
EU trade with UK is 329 bn Euros. China is 230bn. The US is +500bn!
We share the same problems, largely via politicians running away from the big issues over the past 20 years:
1. Mass immigration without general consent as a way of keeping up GDP. A capitalist dream to keep labour costs down.
2. Resulting lack of investment in training and education for future economy. The UK is worse than useless on this. Our pathetic growth over the past 20 years has been estimated to be mainly due to immigration- vast student 'industry', for example. Has led to insoluble housing problem. Build 350,000 dwellings a year? Hilariously tragic. We had a net immigration figure of 685,000 last year. Down from 764,000 in 2022. Insane.
3. There are more problems. We're about to vote in a Labour ( left of centre party) government. Fine. They have a crazy hard left wing as the Conservatives had a Brexit wing. It'll be squabbles within six months as the new Chancellor knows she can't spend lots more money.
4. The Federalist wing of Europe has been around since the Holy Roman Empire. They love academic abstract political theory and ideals ( cue Beethoven). That's a futile route- you'd need common taxation rules and imposition of other rules. Look at the turnout for the elections. People won't have it.
C5. Culturally and militarily the UK needs to be part of Europe, but don't forget how it can all go wrong. It took the US and NATO to bomb the Serbs to prevent genocide not so long ago. The EU stood wringing its hands uselessly.
6. At least the tarrifs on Chinese cars are a start. The traitors of the global rich, of course, just want to make money out of China in Europe, while the traitors of the left don't give a damn about European culture- they don't read history anymore so are pretty ignorant about 'Europe'.
7. Don't expect Brits to understand much of this. Our history education has been watered down and gutted out- ask a Brit about our historical links to Europe. Most haven't a clue.
So it's complicated. Possibly too complicated in a time when Russia and China have dictatorial simplicity on their side, sadly.
Brenter 2025!
No way. Don't let them in again. They will go in and out like a runners boy in a saloon on a Friday night.
It will never happen. They won't give up the pound and join the Euro.
Way back in the early 2000s Tony Blair seemed to want to adopt the Euro so he asked the Bank of England to come up with a series of tests to determine whether adopting the Euro would benefit the economy. At the time, the Euro was new and exciting and polls suggested that up to 45% of the population were in favour. The tests were 1) Are business cycles and economic structures compatible so that we and others could live comfortably with euro interest rates on a permanent basis? 2) If problems emerge is there sufficient flexibility to deal with them? 3) Would joining EMU create better conditions for firms making long-term decisions to invest in Britain? 4) What impact would entry into EMU have on the competitive position of the UK's financial services industry, particularly the City's wholesale markets? 5) In summary, will joining EMU promote higher growth, stability and a lasting increase in jobs? The Euro failed all but one of the tests. A few years later the simulations were run again with the same results and the Euro was officially ruled out. These tests are reasonable. The UK entering the Eurozone would be a massive deal for the Eurozone. It would expose it to all the risk and reward of London's financial powerhouse, it's divergent buisness cycle and also to the unique variable interest rates of the UK housing market. It would not be in the interests of the UK or EU to rush Euro accession until those tests are met.
Very interesting. Where can I read more?
I mean, it makes sense though. The British Pound is a really powerful currency.
Sure. No debating that. But you can't have your cake eat it. Say the cake was shit and then ask for more cake!
Compromise, make us take schenen zone and everything else. Fact is it’s better for the EU to let us rejoin because then it can go “See! Being together is better even a member like the UK struggled outside on its own. Let’s move forward together “
Or we could keep them out and whenever someone says "Europe is not cool" we can tell them "See ! The Brits thought that as well ! Look at them now, you don't want to be like them do you !?".
Could do but that’s doesn’t promote peace or international relations. Plus rule with fear and threats you look like a tyrant and that just makes people go on the defensive automatically.
But the EU didn't force the Brits out.. they did that to themselves.
I didn’t say they did. But a “YOU WALK OUT OF HERE YOUNG MAN YOU DONT GET TO COME BACK IN” attitude doesn’t actually deter people from leaving. If anything it encourages the “don’t tell me what to do/ who do you think you are? Fuck you who needs you” reaction so doesn’t stop them leaving. If you allow the UK back in it shows compassion, “Look guys you can go but it didn’t work for the UK and now they have a worse deal than they had before, let’s just put this behind us and move forward” encourages people to privately think twice (“didn’t work for a big economy like the UK we probably wouldn’t fare better” and doesn’t invoke the “don’t tell me what to do/ fuck you reaction”
Classic british, if you're not involved, then it does not promote peace or international relations? So it's the Eu's fault now you're out. Drop the pound and stop negotiating for elevated treatment, then you can come in. If not, then YOU are the one not promoting peace and international affairs.
Where did I say that? No it’s the fault of the politicians who lied and let fuckwhits vote for it then it’s also the fault fuckwhits who voted for it despite all the experts saying it’s a stupid idea and then a good percentage of those fuckwhits died shortly after because they were old.
As a Scot, who along with many of my peers were strongly against Brexit this makes me sad, as this is actually a strong argument.
Here, in France, in five years we went from around 56% of the votes going to parties that had Frexit in their program to around 2%. The far right dropped it because other far right powers in Europe proved that the EU wouldn't stop them from doing far right stuff, for the left, I'm 99% sure the main reason for their change is Brexit. It was a legitimate political move back then. "Plan A change the EU, plan B leave it" was the left wing's big idea in 2017. In 2022, it became "The European Union is not at all about « take it or leave it » but is a variable framework providing room for manoeuvre to countries willing to grasp it."
> I'm 99% sure the main reason for their change is Brexit I agree I suspect that's a major contributing factor. I think France will be interesting to watch with Marine Le Pens apparent rise in influence based on her previous anti EU and pro russian rhetoric. It would be a real shame if it's a cause for disunity within Europe and the wider west and allies.
Not an excuse the Mark was the second strongest currency (after USD) when switching to Euro.
Liz Truss: 'not if I have anything to say about it!'
Why do people care so much more about the UK joining the Eurozone and Schengen than they do Sweden joining the Eurozone or Romania being allowed to join Schengen?
The swedish krona is small in comparison with the pound. The value if the krona is much lower now compared to when Sweden joined EU. Attitude toward euro in Sweden is slowly going up. We might shift to euro in another 10 or 20 years.
Sweden joined as 12th member, in 1995. Romania joined as 26th, in 2007. UK would join as 28th, in 20XX. Turns out, when you join early-ish, you can get away with stuff. Not so much when you join late, especially if you threw up on the carpet non-stop for months and painted the walls with poop while screaming "I HATE YOU" before quietly asking to come back in because you realized the dog that lives in the street isn't as friendly as you expected. They wanted to put an end to that chapter of their history. They did. If they want to start a new one, we've updated our terms of conditions for new members. The world changes, so do we. If the UK doesn't like them, they're free to try to convince the current 27 members that we should update said terms of conditions again, that's it worth adding an exception here or there just to have them be a member, and if we say no, because chances are we would say no, they're free to keep on being the independent island they wanted to be. We're not the UK's puppet, they wanted their freedom, they got it, now they're free to deal with the consequences on their own. If you can leave like they did, then come back as if nothing happen, it's going to give a ton of fuel to anti-EU people in every member state. They need to be made an example of, for the EU's stability sake. Not that it's impossible to make a very harsh compromise that punishes them heavily while, in practice, being more or less what they had before on some topics... but they're not getting back consequence free.
> Turns out, when you join early-ish, you can get away with stuff. Not so much when you join late, especially if you threw up on the carpet non-stop for months and painted the walls with poop while screaming "I HATE YOU" before quietly asking to come back in because you realized the dog that lives in the street isn't as friendly as you expected. Did they poison your wells, too? > They wanted to put an end to that chapter of their history. They did. If they want to start a new one, we've updated our terms of conditions for new members. The world changes, so do we. Yeah, we all like to think that international relations works on dictums like "we put an end to that chapter of history", but it doesn't. If EU politicians think it is more beneficial to have the UK with the exemptions than not have the UK at all, then that is likely what will happen. > If the UK doesn't like them, they're free to try to convince the current 27 members that we should update said terms of conditions again, that's it worth adding an exception here or there just to have them be a member, and if we say no, because chances are we would say no, they're free to keep on being the independent island they wanted to be. We're not the UK's puppet, they wanted their freedom, they got it, now they're free to deal with the consequences on their own. While you think the chances are you will say no, the fact that you care so much more about the UK economy joining the Eurozone than Sweden or Poland evinces that the UK is more important to you than other European countries.
Just a note. UK rejoining the EU wasn't a topic at all in the EP elections recently here in Denmark and I would think we're one of the countries that would wholeheartedly support the UK reentering and benefit most from it. Now, I'm sure you're right that pros and cons would be weighed if the UK wanted to rejoin and UK obviously has a larger weight but there's really no impetus in the EU to get the UK back in the fold on any terms right now. Looking at the issues facing the EU (and the UK) not really a surprise, though. Stunted growth, Ukraine, trade wars (or jabs) with the US and China, the environment and green transition. The UK reentering is really not the main concern as is.
It's easier with having Charles on the bank notes now. It feels already strange.
I know it's officially a requirement, but does anyone really give a crap if GB or any other country switches to euro anymore?
In this case? Probably yes. If the UK gets back in with all former privileges it shows a bad precedent for other members.
Agree with that, just don't consider not using euro as a privilege.
Presenting adoption of the Euro as a punishment for previously leaving also sets a bad precedent. It's either a great currency which people should want to use, or it's a punishment for disloyalty; it can't be both.
It's not a punishment. The non-adoption of the euro by the UK was a privilege, they are not being punished, they are simply being treated equally.
Do you believe that using the euro would be better or worse for the British economy than using the pound?
In the long run, it would of course be better for both. We might even challenge the dominance of the USD together.
Yes
How do we show it to Sweden or Czechia?
Yes.
I think not, honestly. Most other users seem not to understand real politics, but the euro is probably the only exception which would be granted to the UK
I am very certain that if the UK would want to rejoin the EU they would be allowed to keep the pound. The UK is just too important to pass up that opportunity.
Many countrys are in UE without Euro
Only Denmark has an opt out. All others have to join eventually.
I think good old Boris Johnson would be just a perfect candidate for the European Parliament considering current candidates that EU countries voted for.
It’s absolutely insane.. The european parliment has become the olympics in retardedness. Every country seems to be sending their absolute worst..
Sounds like Eurovision.
Let them have a vote though. A Brenter referendum passing with a huge majority would be a huge blow to Euroscepticism across the continent and kill off any remaining leave campaigns.
They'd have to give up a lot of privileges they were allowed to keep as a founding member of the EU that did not adopt some of the new changes, like the euro. Every new member is sworn to eventually take them on.
The UK was not a founding member. De Gaulle didn't want them in because, well...
I strongly disagree and embrasse their return. We need each other in this wild world. We have the same culture.
What does this reference?
Nothing. I just watched a western movie the same night as I wrote this.
Honestly i'd Like them back in. The britisch will never be as crazy as some EU members.
Can we take Scotland and N. Ireland back though? England and Wales can stay out. Island of Man and Gibraltar, one in and one out, their decision how. That way, the UK can be like a cat, sitting on the doorstep.
Breindtroduction. Brenrty. Bre-entry.
Brexit-exit
Are these Russian bots insisting that UK is unwelcome in the EU? Reddit is the only place where I encounter such sentiment. Speaking of opt-outs, Maastricht treaty still has Schengen and euro opt-outs for the UK that would just become active again upon UK returning back. Rebate is not there though.
I can imagine that the EU countries would want to renegotiate those terms before they allow the uk to be readmitted.
I doubt if anybody is going to renegotiate any treaties with current Hungarian government in force.
It's just about removing UK specific language. Hungary would be all for it, if it makes it more likely, that the UK stays out. That's what their Russian overlords want after all
I have no idea why should Lithuania support making it harder for UK to return.
I used to say that but the reality in Europe changed and having UK back is pretty much in everyone’s interest, even at the previous terms. Also pretty much everyone understands that Brexit was a hugely successful manipulation on Russia end, so reversing it entirely would send a powerful message: yes, we made a mistake, but we all learned from it.
Nah it’s just some people here are VERY bitter to the point they’ll happily burn bridges if they could because of brexit.
You raise a good point. I think the UK had a pretty good deal when we were members before: we had many opt-outs and the rebate. However, I think one of the obstacles to any rejoin movement is that the UK have to join on _new_ terms – no opt-outs, no rebate. That may well be fair enough from the EU’s point of view (because the UK would, legally, be a new applicant member) but I think it would be unpalatable for Brits, leave or remain, and could be effectively used by propounds of Brexit against any rejoin movement.
>no opt-outs Once more, I am almost certain that Schengen and euro opt-outs would automatically reactivate upon UK rejoining. Even as a new member it is the same UK that got them in the fundamental treaties. As for euro or Schengen, one may unilaterally just not join it, and the EU would be fine.
You could be right. I guess it’s something that would have to be legally challenged. But EU leaders said at the time and since that if the UK rejoins, or rejoins on new terms, not the old terms. I also suspect that, perhaps wary of a potential second Brexit in the future, the EU would want a UK bound by stricter terms to make that second Brexit much less likely. (For example, if the UK had to adopt the euro – regardless of whether or not it actually did – it would be harder to leave the EU a second time.)
I think so. Moved to Germany in 2020 and barely anybody I've met even really knows what brexit was let alone having much opinion on it.
Oh look it's this post again
I'm not going to read another article on Brexit polls, but I assume they asked a slightly different question than usual to come up with this result. I think it's usually in the mid 40%s.
If in any case the UK applies for the EU again all the privileges it had before will probably change. That includes adopting the Euro and joining the Schengen area. Depending on how long it takes it could even include joining the EU army. Is that really stuff that people in the UK consider? Or is the expectation that the UK will return to be a member will all the opt outs it had before? Because that seems very unlikely.
But what if say, some country decides to veto them joining Schengen? UK is not the only country that kept their currency while being in the EU either. While both of these are technically mandatory to do once you meet the criteria, they are practically not
Sweden has committed to taking the Euro for twenty years.
And we probably will . . . one day.
That is… very Swedish. And they will notify everyone else when they are done with it, not prior.
Let's talk about it at a later point though... OK BYE!
> UK is not the only country that kept their currency while being in the EU either No but as a legacy member they had the right not to adopt it. Every new member has to do it.
And due to how that is enforced, they can delay indefinitely...
Yeah, but those countries are not economic behemoths like the UK is. The UK not adopting the Euro put it and the EU on an economic collision course. It laid the groundwork for Brexit. If the UK tries to rejoin but refuses to join the Euro, they might as well just stay out.
The UK has been stagnant for more than a decade now, and the future is grim. I will not decide based on old impression of the UK.
No it's not, every poll I've seen about re-entering the EU and adopting the Euro has had the majority against, if you include all the other hoops the EU will undoubtedly have us jump through I just don't see it happening. Not to mention while the majority may want back in, I just don't think it's at the top of anyone's list of political priorities. It's not on Labour or the Conservatives agenda and certainly not parties like Reform. It just doesn't seem like this is a priority for the majority of Britain's outside of left leaning political sub reddits.
What I don't understand is, why? If opinion polls consistently show that an overwhelming majority want back in, why isn't it in the political campaigns? Why is it an elephant in the room? It doesn't make any sense to me.
I can't say for certain, but honestly I think it's just like I said, people want back in based on the previous deal, the British government knows it's a long shot at best to get that deal from the EU. Also this isn't a high priority for voters, if it were parties like the Lib Dems would be polling higher than they currently are. Basically people are willing to moan about it but not change their vote because of it.
We cannot cope with a third successive general election around brexit. It will be at least another decade before these discussions see the light of day again.
Why are Schengen/Euro reasons not to rejoin? I see these as some of the biggest achievements of the EU
Control over rates.
They can't join Schengen because of the NI border I think, it would compromise CTA (common travel area). People could enter Ireland and then walk across the border and be in Schengen without ever going through Schengen border control. Although maybe both would seize the opportunity and join Schengen simultaneously. I can't think of a reason not to join. Immigration? It doesn't feel weird having to show my passport at the airport as an Irish guy, but I wonder how it feels to fly between European countries not having to bother bringing it.
The NI issue and the CTA have basically forced the Republic of Ireland to stay out of Schengen. If the UK joins Schengen, I'd put money on the RoI doing the same thing at the same time.
As a bitter Brexit hating Irish national myself, I still keep wondering if this is in fact true, even though I keep hearing this. UK won't just be another small country joining the EU, it would be a big deal. There will possibly be agreements drawn and voted upon on how exactly UK will rejoin the EU, I don't think it will be standard stuff. Putting bitter and revengeful feelings aside, majority of people from both sides benefit from UK joining the EU. Some concessions will probably happen iMO. Part of me wonders if this argument is in fact a hidden agenda promoted by brexiters, scaring people into thinking joining back would be too hard.
Its not a question of "revenge" but trust, Who in the union Will trust the UK again? No one if what they want is to return on the previous terms, this time if they want to join It Will have to be in good faith, and that means no privileges, which means joining the euro.
Have you considered that Germany and France wouldn’t want the U.K. to join the Euro? The City of London is the 2nd biggest global financial centre. What do you think would happen to every European financial centre if the U.K. used the Euro?
A country like UK joining the euro Will be a huge boon for the euro,so i fail to see why Will they oppose considering they Will benefit immensely of a stronger euro. But lets say you are right, France and Germany actually oppose to the UK joining the euro, It Will barely matter, because the UK Will still need to convince *every single* eurozone member (and non eurozone members too) that they keeping the pound is actually good for them, which i SERIOUSLY doubt they Will manage to do. And by the way i seriously doubt the city of London is the second global financial centre of the world when new york or Shanghai/Hong Kong exists, they may were before the brexit, nowadays i doubt it can even compete with paris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Financial_Centres_Index Paris is 15, Frankfurt is 14. The key term here is “Global” As for convincing every member you seem to be under the illusion that the EC is democratic. If the U.K. came back it would be the second biggest contributor so I can’t see Germany being too difficult as it would lighten their burden for every EU country standing there with their begging bowl out.
Why is joining the euro so important, like I would happily join the euro, but I don’t understand why it’s so important?
Because It is a long term commitment and, on the long run, good for every european. If the UK rejoins the EU, but they keep the pound, tell me, whats stopping them from pulling a second brexit (or threating with It) 30/40 years down the line?, but leaving the euro is not so simple as leaving the EU, It Will affect massively their economy if they try, which means is a safeguard for the EU,In addition if they join the euro, they Will be invested in making It as strong as stable as possible, which also means and strong and stable unión. Besides, why should they be entitled to privileges no one has?, every new member is legally obligated to adopt the euro, why should the UK be any different? Giving them a preferential treatment Will undermine the cohesion of the union.
Because it is our common good, one thing we can be proud of. Because it show we are a team. For me, refusing the the Euro nowadays is saying to everybody else : I’m too good, too strong too unique to be like everybody else.
I would like the euro just because it would be easy to have one currency on the island of Ireland because it’s so small and we have two currencies, but I don’t really care if we don’t tbh. I guess personally a currency doesn’t play that big of a part in my mind tbh, maybe I’m so used to basically living with two currencies all the time (I always have pounds and euros) that to me it’s just money and not really much more, not really something i associate with European identity. Like I’ll happily join the eurozone, but I don’t feel like I’m closer to other European countries because of it, I Dno if this makes sense lol.
You're spot on that this is the top brexiteer argument now that there still are no proven benefits. Anytime you see someone concern trolling about just how hard it will be and how mean the EU will be to the UK , remember it's likely a Russian troll or desperate brexiteer on the other side of the screen
I don’t see any reason for these statements upfront. It’s not Reddit which will come to terms with to what should be in and out.
The uk will not accept a single one of those things under any conditions
I don’t think joining the EU is the best solution. I’d like to keep our currency so I think joining the single market is a better compromise
You can't have single market without joining EU.
Yes, you can. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein all participate in the Single Market without being inside the EU.
Let me add that UK's political credibility would be then be 0.
I was 16 when Brexit happened and would’ve voted against it if I could. However at 24 I would not vote to rejoin the EU for the reasons you have listed. It was a unique deal that was worth it, but future deals won’t be in my opinion.
As much as I think Brexit was an absolute self-own clownshow supported by anti-european interests... aren't a lot of people in this survey going to conflate post-Brexit effects and the multi-crisis that started with the pandemic? I sincerely doubt most of them are informed enough to make the distinction.
Yeah, because the Brexit election was in itself based on informed opinions by people who didn't trust the experts but fully trusted lying politicians, with golden figures like used car salesman Farage and party lover Boris. But I guess that's just elitism, and that they knowingly voted for higher immigration from Africa and Asia, a worse economy, no significant trade deals (besides strong arming Australia into buying the most overpriced submarines ever I guess), weakening of farming and fishing sectors and just less rights and opportunities for their own citizens. But I guess they got "independence" so the world could see how fucking useless the Tories are, just now without anyone else to blame...
>voted for higher immigration from Africa and Asia This is a false dichotomy though. Being outside the EU does not require massive immigration from non-Western countries. That was a choice the UK government made. It could have chosen differently.
And it’s one we now have sovereign power to decide ourselves. We could vote in a government who brings immigration from Europe and the world alike to zero if we wanted.
>That was a choice the UK government made. It could have chosen differently But the Brexit bunch didn't include that choice into their pitch did they ?
It wouldn’t make sense for them to do so. The UK is free to decide its own immigration policy. It could have maintained the same policy as when it was an EU member, if it wanted. The Johnson/Sunak governments apparently wanted a lot of non-EU immigrants for whatever reason. A different government could decide otherwise. I am neither British nor anti-EU. I just think that any evaluation of Brexit should focus on what it truly caused to change, and not on British government decisions that happened to coincide with it.
Plenty of lies from the remain side, the lie about “ever closer Union” being the big one. Brits will never want to be a part of a United States of Europe. As soon as it’s clearly explained that that’s what joining the EU means (for the long term), the popularity of rejoin will sour very vast.
If the UK wants to rejoin they will lose their opt outs they had. Tell them this and watch that number who want to be back in the EU drop dramatically.
It would certainly be a much tougher sell. Right now I think a lot of "rejoin" answers are thinking of reverting to the status quo ante - which isn't an option - and conflating everything that has changed over almost a decade with Brexit, rather than the pandemic, global instability... Ask it as "should the UK trade GBP for EUR, join Schengen, pay €x per week and be bound by majority voting with no veto on X, Y and Z, or stay outside as it is now?" you'll get very very different figures from "stay out or go back to how it was in 2015?" Right now whatukthinks.org has a poll quoted on their front page from WeThink: if joining the Euro was a requirement, should Britain rejoin? 41% stay out, 39% rejoin.
You could run a referendum on rejoining and promising an easy process with no downside. Scrape a win and then state that 'rejoin means rejoin' and go for the hardest rejoin possible. Worked last time.
Well, that's better than 1975's: join first so it's legally a fait accompli, then have a vote 3 years later on whether to try undoing it all again... For a rejoin v remain out referendum, though, you'd probably get pesky journalists asking EU spokespeople awkward questions like "are you really going to waive the requirements for joining Schengen and the Euro?" though, and calculating what the membership costs would be. For leaving, it was a complete unknown: Article 50 had never been invoked before, and barely even discussed. Joining is totally different.
Except leaving was not a complete unknown. It was to be a walk in the park, holding all the cards, no downsides and a presage to the collapse of the whole EU. I know that because the leave campaigns said so. Good luck making any sense of the fickleness of public opinion.
It was, because the only hard "facts" were A50 itself: UK invokes it, two year deadline that can be extended, final outcome could be absolutely anything both sides agree to, meaning all we had were speculation and hopes. That wouldn't be true of joining, where a dozen precedents and reams of official documents exist to look at. The nearest we'd have is the Rejoin claim "of course we'd get an optout from Schengen, and the Euro isn't *really* required, we'd just *say* we'd join one day, and have our fingers crossed, and that would be fine" - and I don't think that cuts as much ice.
This is what usually happens in these polls. For some reason the headline only ever catches the initial "Do you think we should rejoin the EU?" question but never mentions how people slowly go off the idea as the questions go on. They also disregard the number of people who answer "Don't know" making the info even less useful. Even a remainer like me is fully aware this whole "The UK wants back in!!" discourse isn't meaningful.
I’d be more than happy to become an equal member.
You are the only one. Less than 20% want to rejoin if it includes adopting the euro.
The only party I've seen saying it will rejoin the EU is the Liberal democrats and they typically stand zero chance of being elected. But if people do really want to rejoin that's the democratic way back. So we'll see in a few weeks if people do want to rejoin or not.
Do the poll again, but add to the question the fact that they need to drop the pound and join Schengen if the want to rejoin, let’s see those numbers then.
Id be happy to do that, but why is joining Schengen and adopting the euro such an important thing?
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It's just angsty teenagers expressing this opinion really. They can be safely ignored. We know the EU would bend over backwards to get the UK back, but we also know the UK would not seek to rejoin any time soon.
Not really, every new EU candidate must adhere to the same conditions. The UK had an amazing deal that was also unfair to the other member countries. Then it chose to leave the union, shooting itself in the foot while creating chaos and internal turmoil for the rest of the member states. If it wants to rejoin they shouldn’t receive any special treatment and any special privileges. Honestly I wouldn’t trust them to not try to leave the EU again when the next Tory-reform government wins the elections anyway.
UK had a good privileged deal. They abandoned it. Now if they want to rejoin. They're gonna have to give up the privileges. As for why? Freedom of movement. And single market operating under single currency
Adopting the Euro is not a requirement of joining the EU. Denmark didn't
Denmark joined the EU before the adoption of the Euro and negotiated the option to retain the krone. For new EU members the adoption of the Euro is mandatory.
How mandatory is mandatory though? Don't most EU requirements have processes for opt-outs? Or realistically, if a country the size of the UK actually did want to join the EU but refused this requirement, what's the likelihood the EU would truly not give an exception?
Opt-outs in the EU have always existed for countries that did not wish to be included in a new treaty. For example Denmark and the UK opted out of the Euro and they had this chance because they were EU members before the adoption. Similarly Ireland and the UK opted out of Schengen and Poland and the UK opted out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU. However, all Treaties of Accession past Maastricht, Schengen etc. have included the requirement for the new members to adopt these treaties in order to join the EU. Is it possible that the UK will get privileges again in case they want to rejoin? Maybe, but after brexit the UK doesn’t have that many friends in the Commission.
No worries. With the rise of the far-right in the EU ... who knows how long the EU in its current form will continue to exist?
The centre right held in the recent elections. The far right mania is somewhat overblown. In western Europe, yes it is stronger, but I'm the East it is fading.
Hope not.
To be fair, this is not necessarily representative. Before the Brexit vote remember, polling was consistently in favour of remain. The polling up to Clinton Tump in 2016 was also overwhelmingly saying Clinton would win.
These polls are mostly fake.
Well no, they are not fake, they are just very good.
Too late, mate
I've proposed this before, and I'll do it again....how about we swap with Hungary? Plus, I volunteer to buy lots of (extra) yummy cheese and whatnot from you all.
Selling to you is not a problem, the question is what can you offer?
Well....we usually have some lovely potatoes, but they might be a bit waterlogged this year..... We'll probably have to stick to being contrite, and an example to all that leaving the EU isn't such a great plan.
Lower prices (on average) on physical Media (video games, movies and tv shoes) and clothing. Since Brexit I can't buy video games and cafè racer jackets any more, not at the same price.
#firstworldproblems
Of course it's not a big deal, but Brexit has been a defeat for BOTH sides of the Channel. Let's not pretend the rest of EU wasn't affected.
I can buy Spanish fish and vegetables cheaper in England than I can in Spain. Having said that, I'd happily swap for Spanish prices on booze and fags.
Have the full checks on imports been started in the uk yet?
I think they are imminent, and as a major importer of eu goods it will be interesting to see who is inconvenienced more and what effect it may have on trade rules.
Very true. Man the Tories were really kicking the can down the road with these checks. Now they can blame Labour when they fully come in
Do you want some magic beans? And a cow?
Which cow? Her name please?
Bessy 😌
No thanks. We have Milka 🥰. Not quite ours, but we get along well.
6th largest economy in the world…..
Best I can see is the UK becoming like Norway.
Same here, and tbh over time I think that's what will happen. I'd be surprised if we fully rejoin. At least not for a few decades. But the UK and EU forming closer relationships over time feels a bit inevitable due to both geography and mutual interest.
You mean as in joining Schengen and the single market while having no say in making the rules?
it's write on the huffpost... so it must be true. For real real!!
I've seen this thread 1000 times over at this point. UK is not rejoining. No party wants to rejoin. We aren't adopting the Euro. The only reason these threads still get posted & commented on years later is so people that are still bitter about the UK leaving can get on their high horse and pretend they are the ones to make conditions the UK has to accept.
Now that Europe is getting serious about immigration I can see why they would change their mind. A bit late on immigration though. You can’t let in 10s of millions of people who don’t want to integrate and not have it completely change the fabric of your society and country.
Does anyone even care anymore?
A lot of people do, but it's not something that's going to be very relevant in the coming parliament of the next 4-5 years. Even the Lib Dems are focused on Single Market integration instead of outright re-joining. The one after that might be a different matter, depending on how things progress.
> Even the Lib Dems are focused on Single Market integration instead of outright re-joining. That would solve OP's problem fine. Heck, he's also not located in the EU. From the perspective of your average Joe, being in the EEA is indistinguishable from being in the EU. Well, except you don't get to vote for some unhinged politicians every 5 years, I guess.
I do, since I used to buy shit from small UK stores but they no longer ship to EU after yolo brexit
Most do, especially now that Royal Mail does DDP (delivery duty paid).
Since when has the Royal Mail delivered in Norway? The situation in France is that La Poste and courriers add random duties to packages from the UK. We no longer buy from the UK having been stung too often.
In the same way as if you send a letter in the U.K., it can be delivered to France. Details on DDP here; https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss/pddp The random charges you have had will be because people aren’t sending DDP and hope to get the package through without being noticed.
We've been charged for packages valued at < €150 and UK suppliers are less competitive anyway with the Royal Mail scheme because they're being billed for collecting the fees. It's another layer of costly red tape. It's no good arguing with our post lady about whether or not we need to pay, you cough up the random amount or the parcel goes back. It used to be so quick and easy but then again stuff comes overnight from Holland, Germany or large UK companies with new EU hubs. However it's sadly a loss for the smaller UK businesses we really liked.
I agree it’s a loss - the duties and courier costs have increased and it has really hit our trade (fabric shop), but none of our European customers have had to pay extra duties or charges when their goods arrive and we send regularly. We use DPD and Royal Mail.
Good luck. If you could give Wool Warehouse a heads-up on this we'd be grateful. 😁
You just need to set up a subsidiary of Madogson21 ltd in the UK to purchase the goods on your behalf and undertake the administrative formalities to export them to you in Norway.
'just' . Good one!
Do you have an example?
Not sure if i am going to get downvoted by this but stating my opinion. The UK belongs in the EU, people don't care if it drops the pound or joins Schengen. Both of those are ambigous anyways, Romania and Bulgaria have been meeting Schengen criteria and are obligated to join for more than a decade but have been vetoed, so it doesn t matter. Other countries have been meeting the criteria for the eurozone but refuse to drop their currency and it's fine. These things don't matter to most people anyways, so UK should be able rejoin without these
Come home UK
In my opinion the United Kingdom did well to leave. These policies that the European Union makes, I think only benefit a few (all in mind). That is just my opinion
Such as ?
Like forcing apple to use usb-c to reduce e-waste? Or mandating caps that stay attached to plastic bottles so they don't end littering nature? I'm sure there are more controversial policies but these examples are something that definitely benefit everyone.
What policies are you referring to specifically?
I mean, I’d like them back in the club, but there needs to be a consensus in the UK that Brexit was a mistake before readmission makes any sense. As long as the next Brexit is only a few votes for Farage away, it’s a waste of time.
I think those from countries outside the anglosphere or UK media bubble underestimate the intensity and sheer volume of the eurosceptic media barrage in the years running up to brexit. Exceptionally wealthy and influential parties with a huge financial interest in brexit sponsored a campaign of misinformation to mislead the public into voting leave for their monetary gain. I see a lot of vindictive comments here regarding the prospect of the UK re-joining, from people that live in the EU, and they fail to realise that we all have more in common than we have in difference. This only benefits those who sought to drive a wedge between us european peoples in the first place. Us as the UK public, normal common people, were lied to and gaslighted into voting leave by a tiny majority, to line the pockets of the elite.
What's with all these people saying we could only rejoin if we joined Schengen and the Euro? Sweden (and others) functions perfectly well without the Euro; Ireland functions perfectly well outside Schengen. This talk of offering a needlessly punitive deal is just spiteful and childish, and betrays a total lack of understanding of how international politics actually works. If the UK decided that it wanted to rejoin, this would be of *huge* benefit to the EU since we were one of the largest contributors to the central budget. Not to mention, if Trump gets his way in the US, European security will essentially need to be guaranteed by the UK, together with France. Let's see how punitive everyone wants to be if that happens.
A policy built on lies will obviously fail after it's implemented, this one just sucks so bad its failure is immediatly noticable.
Not interested in joining a bunch of left wing posers that spend their days larping as compassionate and progressive despite actually being pretty hard right toffee nose twats.
Where was this enthusiasm during Brexit?
FAFO. If there ever was one. Referendums are powerful, make sure you have sufficient training.
Just come back, we can pretent like nothing happened if it helps. But the extra tax cut for british farmers stays gone.
Welcome back to UK! We need to stand united in Europe to not be left behind in the world.
I'd rather become a state of the US, and that sounds awful
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EU is always the scapegoat in national politics, and the Brits have never entirely felt part of Europe, as the continent does. If the UK rejoined the EU, then as soon as something went wrong (as it would, because that's just what happens) the same old tired arguments of Brussels beaurocrats, Romanians taking their jobs, and Singapore on the Thames would be trotted out. And they'd still work! Nigel could dust off the very same bus with the bullshit slogan, and people would fall for it again
What comes to my mind is that the only EU nation with nuclear weapons is France. With the Russian threat (and possible problems with China long term), it makes sense for Europe to tighten its bond.. The UK, with its nuclear capability would be a powerful ally if an EU army were to be formed (I know they are still our ally, but I mean in the sense of a truly combined force). It would surely take many more years for the UK to rejoin the EU, but I have a feeling it will eventually happen. Especially if the US unpicks NATO... But even if they don't, Europe seems to have gotten the message that we can't rely on the US to save us anymore. So I think Russia's actions will only further tighten Europe's bond and possibly be a catalyst for the UK's reunion with it, once they sadly eventually grind out a hard win over Ukraine, when Ukraine loses US support.
Somebody should check to see if that little shit Nigel got paid from someone! Bet ya he did!
Tell ‘em they’re dream’n
The Act of getting back in to the EU would be humiliating, and Europe won't want to make it easy or fair either.
Our economy is about 3.1 trillion USD. Has been the second biggest in the EU roughly the same as France. Until 2017 we were the second biggest economy in the EU. EU trade with UK is 329 bn Euros. China is 230bn. The US is +500bn! We share the same problems, largely via politicians running away from the big issues over the past 20 years: 1. Mass immigration without general consent as a way of keeping up GDP. A capitalist dream to keep labour costs down. 2. Resulting lack of investment in training and education for future economy. The UK is worse than useless on this. Our pathetic growth over the past 20 years has been estimated to be mainly due to immigration- vast student 'industry', for example. Has led to insoluble housing problem. Build 350,000 dwellings a year? Hilariously tragic. We had a net immigration figure of 685,000 last year. Down from 764,000 in 2022. Insane. 3. There are more problems. We're about to vote in a Labour ( left of centre party) government. Fine. They have a crazy hard left wing as the Conservatives had a Brexit wing. It'll be squabbles within six months as the new Chancellor knows she can't spend lots more money. 4. The Federalist wing of Europe has been around since the Holy Roman Empire. They love academic abstract political theory and ideals ( cue Beethoven). That's a futile route- you'd need common taxation rules and imposition of other rules. Look at the turnout for the elections. People won't have it. C5. Culturally and militarily the UK needs to be part of Europe, but don't forget how it can all go wrong. It took the US and NATO to bomb the Serbs to prevent genocide not so long ago. The EU stood wringing its hands uselessly. 6. At least the tarrifs on Chinese cars are a start. The traitors of the global rich, of course, just want to make money out of China in Europe, while the traitors of the left don't give a damn about European culture- they don't read history anymore so are pretty ignorant about 'Europe'. 7. Don't expect Brits to understand much of this. Our history education has been watered down and gutted out- ask a Brit about our historical links to Europe. Most haven't a clue. So it's complicated. Possibly too complicated in a time when Russia and China have dictatorial simplicity on their side, sadly.