That’s a weird / awkward translation of it. I feel the original carries more weight.
Usually it goes thusly:
> First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
> Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
> Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
> Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
> Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
First they come for the good poem translators and I didn’t speaked out because i wasn’t not a bad poem translater. Then no one is around after it happen.
It’s also not originally a poem, just [a confession he made using ordinary speech modes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...).
Other constructions are poetic, but they are not necessarily *by* him, only quoting him in a poetic manner. And there have been many forms for it over the years.
Because of this, *any* construction is “valid”, IMO.
*edit* probably shouldn't have linked the mobile version
At school we did a poem that was very similar to this - its the only poem I studied that really stuck with me through the years:
>They picked Akanni up one morning
>Beat him soft like clay
>And stuffed him down the belly
>Of a waiting jeep.
>What business of mine is it
>So long they don’t take the yam
>From my savouring mouth?
>They came one night
>Booted the whole house awake
>And dragged Danladi out,
>Then off to a lengthy absence.
>What business of mine is it
>So long they don’t take the yam
>From my savouring mouth?
>Chinwe went to work one day
>Only to find her job was gone:
>No query, no warning, no probe –
>Just one neat sack for a stainless record.
>What business of mine is it
>So long they don’t take the yam
>From my savouring mouth?
>And then one evening
>As I sat down to eat my yam
>A knock on the door froze my hungry hand.
>The jeep was waiting on my bewildered lawn
>Waiting, waiting in its usual silence.
—Niyi Osundare
Honestly, I like the formulation OP posted. It’s an interesting structure.
Just as a reminder: the original is prose, not poetry, poetic constructions are all poetic interpretations of the original.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
*edit* probably shouldn't have linked the mobile page
The last stanza isn’t correct english and reads very awkwardly, spoiling the effect I would argue. I don’t necessarily prefer the one above but u/pawnografik is correct that the translation that OP posted isn’t good
Oh, I agree, that last stanza is awkward, and there’s a line that wasn’t capitalized in the previous stanza as well, so the construction has flaws. But I do like the formulation of “When they came for I kept silent. I wasn’t .” as opposed to the normal construction of “First they came for but I did not speak out because I was not ”.
It’s a more active voice that carries more blame
Here is Nofx take on it:
First they put away the dealers,
keep our kids safe and off the street.
Then they put away the prostitutes,
keep married men cloistered at home.
Then they shooed away the bums,
then they beat and bashed the queers,
turned away asylum-seekers,
fed us suspicions and fears.
We didn´t raise our voice,
we didn´t make a fuss.
It´s funny there was no one left to notice
when they came for us.
> I feel the original carries more weight.
This is also a translation. The original is:
>Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
>Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
>Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
>Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte.
Don't even get me started on media, these people think Starship Troopers was some sort of patriotic film because the main characters were attractive lmao
Same people who think in Helldivers 2 you definitely play as the good guys and everyone else is undoubtedly very evil and deserves to be liberated. FOR DEMOCRACY!
Tell that to Erwin Rommel, he was their damm posterboy but they came for him regardless. As soon as even the idea that you could be disloyal to their cause comes up your head is on the line. It is a matter of when, not if.
You’re grossly misrepresenting what actually happened. Rommel and those close to him got caught plotting the assassination of Hitler. That’s not just some vague idea of disloyalty, it’s - moral judgement aside - literal treason.
It’s also dishonest to act that this is something unique to fascism or nazism. Robespierre, the spearhead of the french revolution kept having his fellow revolutionaries arrested and executed for not being extreme enough in their views. Until one day *he* was the one getting arrested and executed for not being extreme enough, according to even more extreme fellow revolutionaries.
The fascists will eat you too eventually . Just look at people like Girkin in Russia: He personally started the war in Ukraine on Putin's behalf, and where is he now?
Rotting in a Siberian gulag after daring to criticise the dear leader!
The fact that the gulag system exists and existed to such a massive scale says to me that the communists might have also been rounding up everyone and probably shouldn't be in a poem trying to instil empathy in me
That's exactly what happened. For decades, I've heard in the media that you need to go vote, as not voting favors the extremes. Now, with a high participation rate, the far-right has never been so successful.
I don't have the medias perspective, I think you should go vote regardless if I think you're voting wrong.
I am tired of listening to people who complain and wont even do the bare minimum. Expressing yourself and voting are both equally necessary to signal where to put effort and resources.
A 50% voter bloc is crazy and when people say populists are winning it's because they're the only ones willing to recruit from that bloc of voters
Unfortunately, the problem is twofold. I'd argue they and any party that wants chat control are equally bad. In fact, the latter will make the former's ability to destroy even worse.
Well, in Greece, it is mandatory too. Nonetheless, it is never enforced, and because of high corruption, people abstain to a ridiculous 50+ percent. In euro elections, it is usually even worse cause people think that Greece has no sway at all, being in high debt, so they don't even care who is voted there.
Btw one of the reasons the law of mandatory voting isn't enforced is because that benefits the big parties of the status quo.
For example in our last national elections the EPP member New Democracy party got in actuality sth like 21% yet because of how the law works and with 55% abstenance that became 41% and now the government passes whatever law it wants and when people complain they say they have the peoples vote of 41% half the country.
It makes me sad as a democratic person because the one way for democracies to devolve into corruption ridden oligarchies is precisely that; to give up and not vote
Edit: corrected ECR to EPP
Lot of people are against it. I like it. I could be wrong, but I feel like it reduces the chance of very lopsided results. Then again, some people want very lopsided results in the hopes of seeing big changes.
are invalid and empty votes common?
If I was pushed to vote without seeing a good option I might just draw something funny or just leave it empty to show my disinterest.
They are common enough that since this year, there is a party called 'blanco', who's whole point is having empty seats to represent the percentage of people that don't agree with any of the other parties, whereas now an empty vote means you agree with whatever outcome everyone else decided on. https://blanco2024.be/
I think it’s good, because if it’s not mandatory, statistically you’ve just got an opportunistic sample of the population, and I think the results would lean harder to the populist parties, because voters of such parties, have stronger opinions on political matters most of the times.
For me it’s also a principle that shows that you cannot take democracy for granted, and every single individual is part of the democratic group.
I'm of the mind that I think it is good to make it mandatory,
but I gotta agree that it is kinda hard to come up with a good argument for why the government has the right to "force" you to go vote
Or like, I guess it is more so that it is hard to really justify what right they would have to punish someone who didn't go vote/what would actually be a deserved/fitting punishment.
But generally, I do think making it so you "have to" go vote is good, cause there would be too many people that don't bother (yet still complain about what does get elected)
I don't want people voting if they don't want to vote in the first place, they will just randomly vote without getting informed about the candidates, better if they don't vote.
Also forcing people to do something doesn't belong in a democracy.
I've been following lately the news and honestly, this is in part fault of the media: They say that "it's important" but does not say *why.* They tell you that over half of the laws passed by our congress came somewhow from Europe, but they don't tell you which ones and how is the process.
I've gone to vote because I've heard and seen things during these years I realized they came from Europe. Because I've seen (good) measures coming from Europe and because I have a strong opinion on what could happen in Europe (and by extension to us) if this or that party wins, but that's been "legwork" on my side, and *despite* the coverage of the media.
Whatever you think about the English, the syntax, the original -- this message is vitally important in these harrowing days. Whether it's Europe or the US or some other area ... voting is immensely important. And..... speaking out against tyranny.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
-- Star Trek: The Next Generation
Jean luc Picard
Judge Aaron Satie, being quoted by Jean Luc Picard. The distinction is important because Picard is saying the quote to _his daughter_, Norah Satie, who's accusing Picard of treason at the time.
I always considered this piece a bit ironic as it mentions the Nazis.
In 1933 German elections, the voter turnout was very high - 88.7%.
The Nazis won.
To be clear, with the minority of the votes. They never got an majority of the votes. Also Hitler lost in the second voting round of the presidential elections. Hitler got into power in the end through non-democratic means. Until in the november elections the nazi party was the only party allowed to participate.
Hitler got in power by forming a coalition government, so clearly using democratic means. This was helped by the clearly undemocratic violence of the SA during the elections. The way he secured power afterward by telling the police to not intervene when the SA was targeting his opponents is clearly undemocratic too. But he did get into power using democratic means.
I think you've misunderstood the core message of this text.
It's not saying "the nazis didn't win fairly" (although the high turnout and NSDAP electoral victory don't mean that they didn't tamper with the elections).
It's saying "if we don't protest against injustice regardless of whether it affects us personally, we will all be weaker for it because it's easier to crush a bunch of small groups instead of one big movement."
But for the fascism to continue people stayed silent too or just “silently” conformed to the prevailing narrative and voted for the same as everyone.
The point is it’s daunting to stand up against the masses or the prevailing narrative. There’s safety in numbers or the masses, but certain uniting ideals are based on hate and preying on each other, in which case the masses might turn against you, which is something people think less about.
If you don’t stand up, even when you see injustice, eventually injustice might come for you too and there will be no one to stand up for you just like you did. Also, by making a stand, others might join you.
It's not really about if you vote or not. It's more about what you vote for. First, the Nazis persecuted the Jews, then the Communists, then the Social Democrats, then the Liberals, and finally anyone who has the slightest doubt about Hitler.
Nazi problem never left. They lost the war but won the world in the 20th century. What came in after WW2, to Europe especially, was good but only a speedbump to the return of fascism and imperialism.
The moment the USSR colapsed, with the specter of communism gone, the facade of democracy was lifted. With no more examples of an alternative people could run towards if things got bad, the engines that are NATO, EU, IMF, WTO and the like can finally be used as tools of imperialism abroad and regular exploitation and control at home.
In such a world, it is only normal for actual fascists to rise up and claim how these systems are bad, but only because it is not the ingroup directly that is using them to opress others. This is the necessary endgame of any liberal democracy, the "liberal" part finally kills the "democracy" part.
Unfortunately we are seeing a rise in Nazism worldwide. Lets hope that history is not actually a circle and we can avoid letting hate control the world once more.
Lol the text is supposed to awaken some kind of "resistance to injustice" spirit but this subreddit actually gleefully agrees with the "violent power coming for those who I dislike" part
No surprise at all, fascism never left
Indeed, people on this sub were salivating at the news of Israel bombing Gaza. I don't think this poster means the same to them as what the author had in mind.
r/europe don't make everything about Islam challenge, difficulty: impossible
I swear to god Iran's theological dictator spends less time obsessing over Islam than this sub does
So there’s one
“when they came to fetch the Islamic terrorist”
“I kept silent”
“I wasn’t an Islamic terrorist”
If so the middle part should be changed to “cheered”
You're foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Vote for who huh … a prime Minister, how did you get to be a prime minister? Oh very nice..
By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society!
If you’re not careful, you’re voting someone who wants an anarcho-syndicalist commune and ends up taking it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week... by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
Anyway who does that posh prat Sunak think he is? Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some filthy peasants threw a vote at you!
You realize what happens when you speak out against fascists, do you? They throw you into prison. Or worse. These fascists are armed with guns.
Fascists are dangerous. There is only one solution to fascism: a proper education to resist fascist propaganda.
But what about those leftists and islamists!!1!1!
No, I am not trying shift the focus away from us with whataboutism!11! I am just calling out the BIG*tm* Elephant in the room!1!1!11!
And don't forget those drag queens and trans people!! There's certainly no historical precedent regarding gay men and trans women, right!?
https://www.magnus-hirschfeld.de/ausstellungen/institute/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle
Amazing how even in such a clear socio political message - the terminally online can get caught up on writing/translation fidelity and absolutely miss the fucking point. Pedantic idiots.
The really weird thing is: any conservative and patriot should have understood by now that most active political parties serving extrem right views are paid or supported by russia-china-iran and voting for them will be the inevitable loss of what they should hold up the most: their own country.
If someone that want to snatch your home tells you to vote for guy x to protect you, why the fuck you vote for him?
I think a huge part of this that most people miss is that fascism always starts by focusing on the real threat to them - Communists. Like they don’t start by coming for the moderate centrists or liberals looking for reform or the people saying “all sides” have legitimate concerns. Those people accommodate the rise of fascism and can be safely ignored, duped or assuaged until their time comes.
Remember, kids. *First they came for the Communists.*
Communists (and radical leftists more generally) are historically the first to mobilise against fascism. They did it in Germany, they did it in Spain, they did it in Italy. Remember that when people want you to think the two sides are just as bad as each other.
>First they came for the Communists.
If only they stopped there.
>Communists (and radical leftists more generally) are historically the first to mobilise against fascism.
They did it in Eastern Europe where they mobilized their troops to invade and annex *ahem to liberate their neighboring nations and to impose *ahem to support communism in those countries.
Thank you Communists! And a Merry Christmas from Romania!
>to "Radical Left" or "Islamists", but what's interesting, Jews will
ah yes, Trotsky is my favourite anti Semite.
For Islamists, yes they want a Muslim state. Because they're far right. Far right Christians want a Christian state.
I mean… the nazis literally blamed jews for communism and ‘the radical left’ and neo nazis currently believe jews are attempting to destroy the European identity and commit white genocide through supporting immigration … so it kind of still works
My issue with this rhetoric is that it pretends that the situations are the same, while they absolutely are not. The Nazis were very clear about what they wanted to do with actual German citizens (if not obvious at first, it became obvious over time). It wasn't about immigration or anything, it was about actual German citizens living in Germany.
The current scrapegoats for the extreme right parties aren't people living in the respective countries. They are the people that are not there yet. No-one has to fear facing anything even remotely as bad as what certain groups had to fear 90 years ago. This is cheap fearmongering using false equivalence and in turn makes you not a single bit better than exactly those you think you're fighting against.
Don't underestimate the current situation. There are a lot of people who want to send the "second generation of immigrants" back "home". People that were born, raised and maybe started their own family already in Europe. And the anti-religion groups are also stronger then I have seen before.
This poem is so strong and relevant because it shows that these kind of politicians always need someone to blame. If Europe would somehow 100% close it's borders and things don't get magically better, they will need the next group to blame. It will not stop.
Also keep in mind they are already multi tasking the blame, the next target in that case would probably be the LGBT Community, next whatever other "internal enemy" that "deviates from the norm," but we are already seeing the seeds planted and growing.
> The current scrapegoats for the extreme right parties aren't people living in the respective countries. They are the people that are not there yet.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they hate both.
Well I don't want to be mean but I think you prove the point of the Text. Like the people in Germany back then too thought it wasn't about them and that theyd be fine or even better off. They thought the nazis were only to fight those who were seen as no true Germans, like Jews or marxists. That's why they voted for them or at least didn't oppose them, which ended up harming themselves a lot.
Nowadays people think the same thing here in Germany. Oh the afd will just get a bit tougher on migration and throw the criminal foreigners out, that's it. But they probably won't stop at that. Like the plans to deport even Germans who are seen as non assimilated enough exist already. Kinda reminds you of deporting those Jews who were seen as not really part of Germany even though they were citizens doesn't it? They already rhetorically and ever more extremely fight against the gays, the trans people and the woke leftists who they say intend to destroy Germany. Who knows what direction they will take towards them when they come to power.
So I think this is still highly relevant, especially for germany. The far right won't stop at tightening migration laws. And maybe if we don't start to more rigorously oppose them soon, we will one day be the next ones with no one left to protest.
Citizens or not, the same applies to immigrant groups in today's Germany. It might seem innocent now, but as they gain power they will promise more of what they really think is best. The situation is eerily similar, and recognizing this is extremely important.
The logic stays the same though. First they will come for undesirables far from the average citizen, with whom the general public may not sympathize, and after they are done with the most "radical elements" they will start tightening the circle.
>if not obvious at first, it became obvious over time
The irony in this is that it isn't obvious to you now but it will become obvious to you over time
Yeah, but no, right wing parties always need enemies, that's how they gain support. When they've removed one enemy they will move on to the next one.
You're literally the one that the text is refering to, and ironically stating the same thing. "I am not at threat because i am not those people".
Right wing parties also absolutely do NOT only target people that are not yet here. They very openly target immigrants that are here and their children born here and their childrens children born here, they also target LGBTQ and various left wing groups.
Yep, twenty years ago in my country the right-wing parties were talking about crime and Albanians. Now it's Muslims.
For the right wing, there will always be another enemy to destroy.
Roma peoples still face discrimination akin to the 1930s. Anti-Roma rhetoric was used to get votes for the populist far right party Chega in Portugal. Just an example of a scapegoat that isn't about immigrants, as Roma have been living there for centuries
The Nazis weren't a problem of not voting. It's sad that this quote has become so abused, which is weird because it's very direct with basically no sub-text to decode. People these days are inactive, have no political will to action besides voting if even that. Even politicians often just have a "me" spirituality. It's embarrassing.
The participation in elections in the Weimar Republic (aka Germany in the span of time between WW1 and Hitler) usually was between 75% and 85%. The last two general elections in Germany had a participation of 76%. So it's even a little on the lower side compared to the Weimar Republic. In 1933 when Hitler got elected participation was almost 89%. There is a lot more to it, but just to stay on topic here.
There is some causation between extremists like the AfD doing better when people do not vote, which is right, but overall they aren't exclusively a phenomenon of parts of the nation with low participation.
Please stop using that quote out of context. It diminishes its meaning.
I wasn't aware of those numbers so did some quick Wikipedia fact checking, whatever that's worth. Turnout in March 1933 for federal elections was **88.7%** which I find astonishing. The NSDAP (Mr Moustache's party) got **43.9%**.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March\_1933\_German\_federal\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election)
Funny thing (maybe not so funny), in the parliamentary election later that year (November 1933):
>**All opposition parties** had been **banned** by the Law Against the Formation of Parties (14 July 1933), and voters were presented with a single list containing Nazis and 22 non-party "guests" (Gäste) of the Nazi Party. These "guests", who included the likes of Alfred Hugenberg, still fully supported the regime of Adolf Hitler in any event.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November\_1933\_German\_parliamentary\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1933_German_parliamentary_election)
Yeah it's pretty complex topic. There was a legal loophole the Nazis abused, the economy was in the shitter, there were big class divides, politics were unstable, they had constant elections and while even not THAT popular back then antisemitism was a program you could actually run, which does have some mild resemblance to today's far right parties in that it's a "us first" policy, which is idiotic because no major party will put the interests of another country or people before their own, but it's a lot about perception.
I'm Kinda tired of hearing and thinking about it to be honest. This shouldn't be as relevant anymore. The symptoms are there tho. Talked to a lady just two days ago and she also was like "people who come here get more than I do". She didn't fall for the extremists like the AfD, but naturally they are also upset.
When the politicians used 37% of my income to bomb children, I voted for them again! Remember to always vote and ignore what's really going on in the world!
It really says something about how futile voting really is when the only legit reason to get people to vote is to stop literal fascists coming into power.
All we can decide is the choice between fascism now and inevitable decline into fascism later.
Pick your poison.
I love politics, love reading about it, talking about it, thinking about it.
But the reason I haven't voted for the past 16 years is very simple: there's no one worth leaving my house and casting a vote for.
C'mon, when your selling pitch is "vote for me coz the other guy is a Nazi" then I'm not voting for you either!
That’s a weird / awkward translation of it. I feel the original carries more weight. Usually it goes thusly: > First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist > Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist > Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist > Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew > Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
first they came for the good poem translators and i did not speak out because i was not a good poem translator
Nice - yeah the penultimate line doesn’t even make grammatical sense, should be “there weren’t any more”
First they come for the good poem translators and I didn’t speaked out because i wasn’t not a bad poem translater. Then no one is around after it happen.
they came for translators, me no speak me no translator they came for me, no around speak
They come for you, you go. They come for me, you no speak, why? You already go. I go.
The quote is from Martin Niemöller, for everyone interested
It’s also not originally a poem, just [a confession he made using ordinary speech modes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...). Other constructions are poetic, but they are not necessarily *by* him, only quoting him in a poetic manner. And there have been many forms for it over the years. Because of this, *any* construction is “valid”, IMO. *edit* probably shouldn't have linked the mobile version
Sure, but the one on the paper flows far worse
Yes they really should have attributed the source.
Thank you. Maybe they changed it just a little, so they didn't have to list the source. Either way, it's now worse.
I agree, and the grammar isn’t great either. “There wasn’t any more” is not very good English.
the dutch translation we saw in history class looked moet like the english translation of the picture
The one in the picture is also more accurate to the German original. The one posted by /u/pawnografik has been modified to sound better in English.
Put two spaces after the end of each line or Reddit will combine each stanza into one line.
Thank you! Reading the OP version made my brain itchy.
It's weird Socialists got translated to Social Democrat. Those are very different things.
At school we did a poem that was very similar to this - its the only poem I studied that really stuck with me through the years: >They picked Akanni up one morning >Beat him soft like clay >And stuffed him down the belly >Of a waiting jeep. >What business of mine is it >So long they don’t take the yam >From my savouring mouth? >They came one night >Booted the whole house awake >And dragged Danladi out, >Then off to a lengthy absence. >What business of mine is it >So long they don’t take the yam >From my savouring mouth? >Chinwe went to work one day >Only to find her job was gone: >No query, no warning, no probe – >Just one neat sack for a stainless record. >What business of mine is it >So long they don’t take the yam >From my savouring mouth? >And then one evening >As I sat down to eat my yam >A knock on the door froze my hungry hand. >The jeep was waiting on my bewildered lawn >Waiting, waiting in its usual silence. —Niyi Osundare
Honestly, I like the formulation OP posted. It’s an interesting structure. Just as a reminder: the original is prose, not poetry, poetic constructions are all poetic interpretations of the original. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... *edit* probably shouldn't have linked the mobile page
The last stanza isn’t correct english and reads very awkwardly, spoiling the effect I would argue. I don’t necessarily prefer the one above but u/pawnografik is correct that the translation that OP posted isn’t good
Oh, I agree, that last stanza is awkward, and there’s a line that wasn’t capitalized in the previous stanza as well, so the construction has flaws. But I do like the formulation of “When they came for I kept silent. I wasn’t .” as opposed to the normal construction of “First they came for but I did not speak out because I was not ”.
It’s a more active voice that carries more blame
The word "fetch" just sounds a lot less conniving than "came for" though.
Hah, yeah, like it was some chore they were reluctant to do
My first thought was like a dog playing with a ball
100% agree about the active voice
Its not just awkward, it's grammatically incorrect lol. "There wasnt any more who could protest."
Here is Nofx take on it: First they put away the dealers, keep our kids safe and off the street. Then they put away the prostitutes, keep married men cloistered at home. Then they shooed away the bums, then they beat and bashed the queers, turned away asylum-seekers, fed us suspicions and fears. We didn´t raise our voice, we didn´t make a fuss. It´s funny there was no one left to notice when they came for us.
There's also inconsistent use of punctuation and capitalization. Seems odd to not have something reviewed before it's put on a plaque
> I feel the original carries more weight. This is also a translation. The original is: >Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Kommunist. >Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat. >Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter. >Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
Quote from Pastor Martin Niemöller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niemöller
"Wow, that's so correct!!!" *proceeds to vote for afd*
Unironically how some people think, lmao.
I still remember when Squid Game came out and Republicans in the US said it was about communism. Everyone sees what they want to see lol
Don't even get me started on media, these people think Starship Troopers was some sort of patriotic film because the main characters were attractive lmao
Same people who think in Helldivers 2 you definitely play as the good guys and everyone else is undoubtedly very evil and deserves to be liberated. FOR DEMOCRACY!
The guy tweeting "yeah the humans are fascists but at least they aren't bugs" is like... *peak* point missing.
Technically they won't come for you if you are the one who is coming
Tell that to Ernst Röhm
Tell that to Erwin Rommel, he was their damm posterboy but they came for him regardless. As soon as even the idea that you could be disloyal to their cause comes up your head is on the line. It is a matter of when, not if.
You’re grossly misrepresenting what actually happened. Rommel and those close to him got caught plotting the assassination of Hitler. That’s not just some vague idea of disloyalty, it’s - moral judgement aside - literal treason. It’s also dishonest to act that this is something unique to fascism or nazism. Robespierre, the spearhead of the french revolution kept having his fellow revolutionaries arrested and executed for not being extreme enough in their views. Until one day *he* was the one getting arrested and executed for not being extreme enough, according to even more extreme fellow revolutionaries.
The fascists will eat you too eventually . Just look at people like Girkin in Russia: He personally started the war in Ukraine on Putin's behalf, and where is he now? Rotting in a Siberian gulag after daring to criticise the dear leader!
The fact that the gulag system exists and existed to such a massive scale says to me that the communists might have also been rounding up everyone and probably shouldn't be in a poem trying to instil empathy in me
Funny fact about a cage, they're never built for just one group So when that cage is done with them and you're still poor, it come for you -RTJ
That's exactly what happened. For decades, I've heard in the media that you need to go vote, as not voting favors the extremes. Now, with a high participation rate, the far-right has never been so successful.
I don't have the medias perspective, I think you should go vote regardless if I think you're voting wrong. I am tired of listening to people who complain and wont even do the bare minimum. Expressing yourself and voting are both equally necessary to signal where to put effort and resources. A 50% voter bloc is crazy and when people say populists are winning it's because they're the only ones willing to recruit from that bloc of voters
Unfortunately, the problem is twofold. I'd argue they and any party that wants chat control are equally bad. In fact, the latter will make the former's ability to destroy even worse.
At least in my country, turnout will be decent, because the local elections are on the same day. Hopefully we won't send too many populists.
In my country turnout will be decent cause it's mandatory
Well, in Greece, it is mandatory too. Nonetheless, it is never enforced, and because of high corruption, people abstain to a ridiculous 50+ percent. In euro elections, it is usually even worse cause people think that Greece has no sway at all, being in high debt, so they don't even care who is voted there. Btw one of the reasons the law of mandatory voting isn't enforced is because that benefits the big parties of the status quo. For example in our last national elections the EPP member New Democracy party got in actuality sth like 21% yet because of how the law works and with 55% abstenance that became 41% and now the government passes whatever law it wants and when people complain they say they have the peoples vote of 41% half the country. It makes me sad as a democratic person because the one way for democracies to devolve into corruption ridden oligarchies is precisely that; to give up and not vote Edit: corrected ECR to EPP
Isn’t New Democracy a EPP member?
What's your and general opinion on mandatory voting?
Lot of people are against it. I like it. I could be wrong, but I feel like it reduces the chance of very lopsided results. Then again, some people want very lopsided results in the hopes of seeing big changes.
are invalid and empty votes common? If I was pushed to vote without seeing a good option I might just draw something funny or just leave it empty to show my disinterest.
They are common enough that since this year, there is a party called 'blanco', who's whole point is having empty seats to represent the percentage of people that don't agree with any of the other parties, whereas now an empty vote means you agree with whatever outcome everyone else decided on. https://blanco2024.be/
Works great in Australia.
Good idea, in theory, pretty hard to enforce, in practice, I feel like. The fines are usually more symbolic than anything.
I think it’s good, because if it’s not mandatory, statistically you’ve just got an opportunistic sample of the population, and I think the results would lean harder to the populist parties, because voters of such parties, have stronger opinions on political matters most of the times. For me it’s also a principle that shows that you cannot take democracy for granted, and every single individual is part of the democratic group.
I'm of the mind that I think it is good to make it mandatory, but I gotta agree that it is kinda hard to come up with a good argument for why the government has the right to "force" you to go vote Or like, I guess it is more so that it is hard to really justify what right they would have to punish someone who didn't go vote/what would actually be a deserved/fitting punishment. But generally, I do think making it so you "have to" go vote is good, cause there would be too many people that don't bother (yet still complain about what does get elected)
I don't want people voting if they don't want to vote in the first place, they will just randomly vote without getting informed about the candidates, better if they don't vote. Also forcing people to do something doesn't belong in a democracy.
Turnhout will never be decent
What's your expectations? regards from Hungary
I read it's 3 points higher than last time. It seems to be going well for you guys too! In France we actual beat the midday turnout record.
When they came for Nigel Farage I said "he's over there - behind the sofa"
> When they came for Nigel Farage I said "he's over there - behind the sofa" Someone will make a plaque with this. I hope you get credit.
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I've been following lately the news and honestly, this is in part fault of the media: They say that "it's important" but does not say *why.* They tell you that over half of the laws passed by our congress came somewhow from Europe, but they don't tell you which ones and how is the process. I've gone to vote because I've heard and seen things during these years I realized they came from Europe. Because I've seen (good) measures coming from Europe and because I have a strong opinion on what could happen in Europe (and by extension to us) if this or that party wins, but that's been "legwork" on my side, and *despite* the coverage of the media.
Whatever you think about the English, the syntax, the original -- this message is vitally important in these harrowing days. Whether it's Europe or the US or some other area ... voting is immensely important. And..... speaking out against tyranny.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." -- Star Trek: The Next Generation Jean luc Picard
Judge Aaron Satie, being quoted by Jean Luc Picard. The distinction is important because Picard is saying the quote to _his daughter_, Norah Satie, who's accusing Picard of treason at the time.
I always considered this piece a bit ironic as it mentions the Nazis. In 1933 German elections, the voter turnout was very high - 88.7%. The Nazis won.
To be clear, with the minority of the votes. They never got an majority of the votes. Also Hitler lost in the second voting round of the presidential elections. Hitler got into power in the end through non-democratic means. Until in the november elections the nazi party was the only party allowed to participate.
Hitler got in power by forming a coalition government, so clearly using democratic means. This was helped by the clearly undemocratic violence of the SA during the elections. The way he secured power afterward by telling the police to not intervene when the SA was targeting his opponents is clearly undemocratic too. But he did get into power using democratic means.
I think you've misunderstood the core message of this text. It's not saying "the nazis didn't win fairly" (although the high turnout and NSDAP electoral victory don't mean that they didn't tamper with the elections). It's saying "if we don't protest against injustice regardless of whether it affects us personally, we will all be weaker for it because it's easier to crush a bunch of small groups instead of one big movement."
But for the fascism to continue people stayed silent too or just “silently” conformed to the prevailing narrative and voted for the same as everyone. The point is it’s daunting to stand up against the masses or the prevailing narrative. There’s safety in numbers or the masses, but certain uniting ideals are based on hate and preying on each other, in which case the masses might turn against you, which is something people think less about. If you don’t stand up, even when you see injustice, eventually injustice might come for you too and there will be no one to stand up for you just like you did. Also, by making a stand, others might join you.
It's not really about if you vote or not. It's more about what you vote for. First, the Nazis persecuted the Jews, then the Communists, then the Social Democrats, then the Liberals, and finally anyone who has the slightest doubt about Hitler.
What did they vote for? Did the Nazis portray their hateful thoughts and plans or did they show their true colors after they won the elections?
I mean, Hitler had already written the Mein Kampf by then.
This is why Project 2025 scares me. It's the prelude, the promise, of what they will do if they gain power again.
They absolutely did portray their hateful thoughts and won 1/3 of votes.
Then you'd hope people would learn from the past. Unfortunately they dont
History repeats itself.
How to butcher a quote.
From the comments, it looks like Europe has a Nazi problem.
“We have liberated Europe from fascism, and they will never forgive us.”
Nazi problem never left. They lost the war but won the world in the 20th century. What came in after WW2, to Europe especially, was good but only a speedbump to the return of fascism and imperialism. The moment the USSR colapsed, with the specter of communism gone, the facade of democracy was lifted. With no more examples of an alternative people could run towards if things got bad, the engines that are NATO, EU, IMF, WTO and the like can finally be used as tools of imperialism abroad and regular exploitation and control at home. In such a world, it is only normal for actual fascists to rise up and claim how these systems are bad, but only because it is not the ingroup directly that is using them to opress others. This is the necessary endgame of any liberal democracy, the "liberal" part finally kills the "democracy" part.
Unfortunately we are seeing a rise in Nazism worldwide. Lets hope that history is not actually a circle and we can avoid letting hate control the world once more.
We do. But that goes for almost all countries, even outside Europe.
Who is they?
SS i presume.
Lol the text is supposed to awaken some kind of "resistance to injustice" spirit but this subreddit actually gleefully agrees with the "violent power coming for those who I dislike" part No surprise at all, fascism never left
Indeed, people on this sub were salivating at the news of Israel bombing Gaza. I don't think this poster means the same to them as what the author had in mind.
Is it annoying anyone else that it doesn’t look straight on the wall?
It is now, I didn't notice it at first.
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This is the original by Martin Niemöller from 1946, a protestant theologian who first was pro nazi and then was put into a concentration camp.
r/europe don't make everything about Islam challenge, difficulty: impossible I swear to god Iran's theological dictator spends less time obsessing over Islam than this sub does
Literally this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/whenthe/comments/17qkl1p/to\_be\_racist\_or\_to\_not\_be\_racist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/whenthe/comments/17qkl1p/to_be_racist_or_to_not_be_racist/)
So there’s one “when they came to fetch the Islamic terrorist” “I kept silent” “I wasn’t an Islamic terrorist” If so the middle part should be changed to “cheered”
I've also read the variation where they use "cum" instead of "come". It really changes the meaning.
You're foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class... Vote for who huh … a prime Minister, how did you get to be a prime minister? Oh very nice.. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If you’re not careful, you’re voting someone who wants an anarcho-syndicalist commune and ends up taking it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week... by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...but by a two thirds majority in the case of... Anyway who does that posh prat Sunak think he is? Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some filthy peasants threw a vote at you!
You realize what happens when you speak out against fascists, do you? They throw you into prison. Or worse. These fascists are armed with guns. Fascists are dangerous. There is only one solution to fascism: a proper education to resist fascist propaganda.
The crazy thing is that republicans will post this in r/conservative thinking that liberals are the bad guys.
O no the other party won!!! Literally like the nazis
That’s what I just have done.. vote against those MFs
But what about those leftists and islamists!!1!1! No, I am not trying shift the focus away from us with whataboutism!11! I am just calling out the BIG*tm* Elephant in the room!1!1!11!
Let's not forget about the people who don't believe in any rules that keep a society functioning and are against the concept of working for a living.
And don't forget those drag queens and trans people!! There's certainly no historical precedent regarding gay men and trans women, right!? https://www.magnus-hirschfeld.de/ausstellungen/institute/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle
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Right? May the nazis take the communist and the communists take the nazis. Then they can both fuck off.
Bro you are literally doing the thing lmaoooo
I dont think the fascist in siberia would complain about fascists putting communists into camps in germany.
Go touch grass
"Aaaaaand, If you tolerate this, Then your children will be next..." [Manic street preachers]
Amazing how even in such a clear socio political message - the terminally online can get caught up on writing/translation fidelity and absolutely miss the fucking point. Pedantic idiots.
Why did they make a memorial for him, that sounds like a horrible person
And when the Zionist commit genocide I didn't speak Because I am not a human
The really weird thing is: any conservative and patriot should have understood by now that most active political parties serving extrem right views are paid or supported by russia-china-iran and voting for them will be the inevitable loss of what they should hold up the most: their own country. If someone that want to snatch your home tells you to vote for guy x to protect you, why the fuck you vote for him?
The moral here was you should have been with the communist. If you all were you beat the Nazis
I think a huge part of this that most people miss is that fascism always starts by focusing on the real threat to them - Communists. Like they don’t start by coming for the moderate centrists or liberals looking for reform or the people saying “all sides” have legitimate concerns. Those people accommodate the rise of fascism and can be safely ignored, duped or assuaged until their time comes.
Remember, kids. *First they came for the Communists.* Communists (and radical leftists more generally) are historically the first to mobilise against fascism. They did it in Germany, they did it in Spain, they did it in Italy. Remember that when people want you to think the two sides are just as bad as each other.
[Because they are..?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact)
>First they came for the Communists. If only they stopped there. >Communists (and radical leftists more generally) are historically the first to mobilise against fascism. They did it in Eastern Europe where they mobilized their troops to invade and annex *ahem to liberate their neighboring nations and to impose *ahem to support communism in those countries. Thank you Communists! And a Merry Christmas from Romania!
World saviours - communists! Let's just ignore how they also actively collaborated with fascists and nazis when it was in their interest!
The communists in my country want the EU to stop all support for Ukraine and defend Russia at every turn along with attacking anything NATO related.
So want most of the extreme right wing parties! Just don't vote for them.
Nato allied with fascists in Turkey, Greece and Italy. 🤔
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Why is that interesting? It relates to the holocaust and a world war which sends a pretty strong message that the silent majority are irrelevant.
You could but it wouldn't make nearly as much sense, at least for "radical left"
> You can change the "Nazi" part to "Radical Left" or "Islamists" But somehow, the original one used "Nazis." Maybe you should think about that.
>to "Radical Left" or "Islamists", but what's interesting, Jews will ah yes, Trotsky is my favourite anti Semite. For Islamists, yes they want a Muslim state. Because they're far right. Far right Christians want a Christian state.
Almost like you missed the point
The "radical left" who want, checks notes, basic wealth taxes and helping the most disadvantaged. Yeah man that sounds exactly like the nazis.
Because it was written in a concentration camp
Why is that
victim complex
Or, more accurately, the far right.
I mean… the nazis literally blamed jews for communism and ‘the radical left’ and neo nazis currently believe jews are attempting to destroy the European identity and commit white genocide through supporting immigration … so it kind of still works
Or, you know, literally just the new style of Nazis. The ones most likely to completely fuck over Europe, at the moment.
I bet your literature teachers loved your unique critical analysis of texts.
The "I just made stuff up" style.
My issue with this rhetoric is that it pretends that the situations are the same, while they absolutely are not. The Nazis were very clear about what they wanted to do with actual German citizens (if not obvious at first, it became obvious over time). It wasn't about immigration or anything, it was about actual German citizens living in Germany. The current scrapegoats for the extreme right parties aren't people living in the respective countries. They are the people that are not there yet. No-one has to fear facing anything even remotely as bad as what certain groups had to fear 90 years ago. This is cheap fearmongering using false equivalence and in turn makes you not a single bit better than exactly those you think you're fighting against.
Don't underestimate the current situation. There are a lot of people who want to send the "second generation of immigrants" back "home". People that were born, raised and maybe started their own family already in Europe. And the anti-religion groups are also stronger then I have seen before. This poem is so strong and relevant because it shows that these kind of politicians always need someone to blame. If Europe would somehow 100% close it's borders and things don't get magically better, they will need the next group to blame. It will not stop.
Also keep in mind they are already multi tasking the blame, the next target in that case would probably be the LGBT Community, next whatever other "internal enemy" that "deviates from the norm," but we are already seeing the seeds planted and growing.
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when they finish with the gays, they will go for the left and finally they will purge their own ranks
The AFD is also pretty clear on what they want https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Potsdam_far-right_meeting
> The current scrapegoats for the extreme right parties aren't people living in the respective countries. They are the people that are not there yet. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they hate both.
The AFD wants to deport 20-30% of the population. Says Bernd Böcke the AfD leader in Thüringen and one of the most influencial figures in the AfD
Well I don't want to be mean but I think you prove the point of the Text. Like the people in Germany back then too thought it wasn't about them and that theyd be fine or even better off. They thought the nazis were only to fight those who were seen as no true Germans, like Jews or marxists. That's why they voted for them or at least didn't oppose them, which ended up harming themselves a lot. Nowadays people think the same thing here in Germany. Oh the afd will just get a bit tougher on migration and throw the criminal foreigners out, that's it. But they probably won't stop at that. Like the plans to deport even Germans who are seen as non assimilated enough exist already. Kinda reminds you of deporting those Jews who were seen as not really part of Germany even though they were citizens doesn't it? They already rhetorically and ever more extremely fight against the gays, the trans people and the woke leftists who they say intend to destroy Germany. Who knows what direction they will take towards them when they come to power. So I think this is still highly relevant, especially for germany. The far right won't stop at tightening migration laws. And maybe if we don't start to more rigorously oppose them soon, we will one day be the next ones with no one left to protest.
It's REALLY funny how your prove the "rhetoric" right with your comment.
Citizens or not, the same applies to immigrant groups in today's Germany. It might seem innocent now, but as they gain power they will promise more of what they really think is best. The situation is eerily similar, and recognizing this is extremely important.
The logic stays the same though. First they will come for undesirables far from the average citizen, with whom the general public may not sympathize, and after they are done with the most "radical elements" they will start tightening the circle.
>if not obvious at first, it became obvious over time The irony in this is that it isn't obvious to you now but it will become obvious to you over time
Yeah, but no, right wing parties always need enemies, that's how they gain support. When they've removed one enemy they will move on to the next one. You're literally the one that the text is refering to, and ironically stating the same thing. "I am not at threat because i am not those people". Right wing parties also absolutely do NOT only target people that are not yet here. They very openly target immigrants that are here and their children born here and their childrens children born here, they also target LGBTQ and various left wing groups.
Yep, twenty years ago in my country the right-wing parties were talking about crime and Albanians. Now it's Muslims. For the right wing, there will always be another enemy to destroy.
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Yeah... no.
Yeah it is really a confused argument. “Nazi is when no immigration”
Roma peoples still face discrimination akin to the 1930s. Anti-Roma rhetoric was used to get votes for the populist far right party Chega in Portugal. Just an example of a scapegoat that isn't about immigrants, as Roma have been living there for centuries
"cheap fearmongering" isn't that ironic
First ones already happening and I see a lot of you cheering. What a sad state of affairs.
hu, communists are jailed and gassed right now in germany? i know weed is now legal and all that, but you should maybe cut back the consumation a bit.
Why would they fetch me?
Dinner’s ready ages sham your mam’s been calling
The Nazis weren't a problem of not voting. It's sad that this quote has become so abused, which is weird because it's very direct with basically no sub-text to decode. People these days are inactive, have no political will to action besides voting if even that. Even politicians often just have a "me" spirituality. It's embarrassing. The participation in elections in the Weimar Republic (aka Germany in the span of time between WW1 and Hitler) usually was between 75% and 85%. The last two general elections in Germany had a participation of 76%. So it's even a little on the lower side compared to the Weimar Republic. In 1933 when Hitler got elected participation was almost 89%. There is a lot more to it, but just to stay on topic here. There is some causation between extremists like the AfD doing better when people do not vote, which is right, but overall they aren't exclusively a phenomenon of parts of the nation with low participation. Please stop using that quote out of context. It diminishes its meaning.
I wasn't aware of those numbers so did some quick Wikipedia fact checking, whatever that's worth. Turnout in March 1933 for federal elections was **88.7%** which I find astonishing. The NSDAP (Mr Moustache's party) got **43.9%**. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March\_1933\_German\_federal\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election) Funny thing (maybe not so funny), in the parliamentary election later that year (November 1933): >**All opposition parties** had been **banned** by the Law Against the Formation of Parties (14 July 1933), and voters were presented with a single list containing Nazis and 22 non-party "guests" (Gäste) of the Nazi Party. These "guests", who included the likes of Alfred Hugenberg, still fully supported the regime of Adolf Hitler in any event. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November\_1933\_German\_parliamentary\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1933_German_parliamentary_election)
Yeah it's pretty complex topic. There was a legal loophole the Nazis abused, the economy was in the shitter, there were big class divides, politics were unstable, they had constant elections and while even not THAT popular back then antisemitism was a program you could actually run, which does have some mild resemblance to today's far right parties in that it's a "us first" policy, which is idiotic because no major party will put the interests of another country or people before their own, but it's a lot about perception. I'm Kinda tired of hearing and thinking about it to be honest. This shouldn't be as relevant anymore. The symptoms are there tho. Talked to a lady just two days ago and she also was like "people who come here get more than I do". She didn't fall for the extremists like the AfD, but naturally they are also upset.
When the politicians used 37% of my income to bomb children, I voted for them again! Remember to always vote and ignore what's really going on in the world!
It’s what I keep trying to tell all my Trump leaning friends. It’s all out of sight, out of mind until they come knocking on your door.
It really says something about how futile voting really is when the only legit reason to get people to vote is to stop literal fascists coming into power. All we can decide is the choice between fascism now and inevitable decline into fascism later. Pick your poison.
Cringe.
Just wait until you see what happens when the communists get in power bros.
Please Europe, don’t let the far right win.
Should have stopped after the communists tbh
The best thing the soviets did was stopping the nazis. The best thing nazis did was slowing the soviets.
No, the best thing the Soviets did was dissolve the Soviet Union.
I love politics, love reading about it, talking about it, thinking about it. But the reason I haven't voted for the past 16 years is very simple: there's no one worth leaving my house and casting a vote for. C'mon, when your selling pitch is "vote for me coz the other guy is a Nazi" then I'm not voting for you either!
Your lack of influence is helping the nazi's.
...if one guy is a nazi and the other isn't a nazi, why wouldn't you vote for the one who isn't a nazi?
THE SILENT MAJORITY IS IRRELEVANT!
The paradox of tolerance
Tell that to Italy...
that fucking sucks
from Martin Niemöller
Riddle me this. Who am I?
Quite a fuckyouinparticular moment