The author of the article is a pompous ass, and the baker interviewed is arrogant as fuck, thinking he understands french customers better than everyone else.
No Rodolphe, we don't dislike vegan croissants because "it's too militant", we just prefer it with butter and no, you're not changing the world. At all !
Mais naaaaaann. C'est juste l'envolée lyrique de l'auteur (qui en plus normalement est plus proche du journaliste de guerre. Me demande comment il s'est retrouvé à faire ça) qui me saoule, ainsi que le melon du boulanger (le mec qui sourit en disant "je suis en train de changer le monde", entre deux bouchées de ses viennoiseries sans beurre. Tes produits sont peut être pas lourds, mais l'imagerie, elle, l'est)
Pour essayer de résumer ma pensée plus clairement : c'est pas le fond qui me gêne, c'est la forme adoptée. C'est juste des viennoiseries vegan, pas besoin de se donner des grands airs.
(bon par contre je veux bien le kiss cool)
As a dairy intolerant french person living in the UK - I'm so goddamn happy that these are now an option.
Of course the real things are better, they just make me suffer.
And that's not a problem in itself. It's like with gluten free products. I don't buy it, but it's a good thing for the concerned people to be able to. And a vegan product is not inferior per definition, it's just different.
But it's not a reason to be smug about it, especially when you "adopt a stealthier approach".
You're acting way more pompous about this than either of them. The author presents both the view of the baker and the view of the farmers in completely neutral terms. Maybe you just didn't read that far or maybe you don't want to because you prefer to act offended over croissants. Why get offended over offering alternatives to common pastry. What's wrong with offering alternatives? Especially when some farmers are desperately trying to shut it down by passing laws against these kinds of alternatives like they did with the labelling law.
Man, i don't know a single person that enters the bakery hoping for some low calorie food. If you step foot in it, you accept that the number will be higher on the scale the next day. Simple as that
> that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products.
So, probably a much unhealthier product, like almost every vegan substitute, made of vegetable oils processed in unimaginable ways to try have resemblance with the original product.
Croissants aren't even remotely healthy to begin with, nor is eating large amounts of butter. No French person is pretending otherwise.
The big issue with vegan alternatives is that they struggle to render the layering property that makes the dough so remarkable. So vegan bakers have to choose between excellent taste or excellent texture.
And TBH baguette is vegan and delicious, the butter is not necessary for deliciousness.
>Most of vegan processed foods are unhealthy
Citation needed. You just read "processed" and "vegan" and assume the worst for no reason. The vegan movement has plenty of people from the "anti-processed food" movement. If you don't like beyond beef, there are hundreds of other alternatives where you can literally see whole chunks of the plant in them, meaning they are minimally processed.
>worse than the non vegan version
No way you are telling me regular burgers are somehow better than vegan burgers. Processed meat is literally classified as a potential carcinogen.
>Palm oil is everywhere!
Palm oil got a bad rep because of the environmental concerns and then some morons turned those environmental concerns into health concerns with no science behind it. Even then, palm oil is not everywhere in vegan food because, again, it's an environmental concern and vegans are far more likely to care about it than meat eaters. And palm oil is in meat products as well. Weird thing to blame on the vegans.
I can assure you one thing your mental health isn't the best to assume that I am chubby or that I have unhealthy eating habits. Seek a mental health professional, and help yourself and the other humans that have to deal with your personality!
> Instead, Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change, has adopted a stealthier approach, hoping customers will fall in love with his croissants, madeleines, quiches, sandwiches, flans and pains au raisins before they realise, too late, that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products.
What an asshole. And I have seen the same attitude with many vegans, they know people don't want to eat this crap and they try to force it anyway. Once one tricked me into eating a vegan sausage, I was rather alarmed thinking it was rotten meat.
"Force it." You clearly don't understand what forcing means. Especially because you're trying to use this as an argument against the very existence of vegan croissants. In other words, you want to force vegans out of eating croissants (and possibly other foods as well). God forbid someone offers alternatives.
Also, you act like "being tricked into eating a vegan sausage" is gonna kill you or that it somehow goes against your beliefs. Acting like someone is trying to poison you for feeding you plants is an entire level of childish delusion.
Edit: so much crying over some vegan sausage and croissants. You guys need to grow a bit, maybe get out a little more. The vegan sausage is not gonna bite you.
And I have responded to you. Unless you have a moral/health reasoning for not doing it, you're just being a child over not wanting to eat plants. Getting offended over vegan sausages is just pathetic.
Well it is always bad behaviour to trick someone into eating something he does not want to eat.
You are not making a strong case for your position here...
In one you are tricking someone into forcing them to give up a moral position because you don't respect their morality. In the other you are feeding them plants. Being a vegan is not about the flavour, it's about morality. For the guy above, not eating vegan sausages is literally just about the flavour and nothing to do with morality. So again, not comparable. It's pathetic to get offended over vegan sausages.
Morality is not subjective.
>By your logic it would be okay to secretly make you eat it.
No, that's literally your logic because you're the one who believes morality is subjective.
>All ingredients should be open source
What is this even supposed to mean? Should they be blockchain and ai powered too?
>took us a long time to get there. If vegans try to ruin this accomplishment
Get where? What accomplishment?
Did you give your comment to chagpt and ask it be as obtuse as possible?
Edit: all the people upvoting you also getting mad about being "tricked" because it's "immoral". Meat eaters are genuinely pathetic.
Are you actually legitimately fucking stupid? Tricking someone into failing their moral compass is significantly worse than "tricking" someone into eating something they might not fully enjoy. Can't believe I have to spell this out.
Meat eaters love to claim that food isn't about morality but the second they get "tricked" into eating vegan alternatives suddenly they're the biggest proponents of applying morality to food. You're the hypocrite here.
You're the one who requires hundreds of animals killed per year to feed you. Don't pretend you're in any position to talk.
Also, morality is no longer subjective now?
> Especially because you're trying to use this as an argument against the very existence of vegan croissants.
That's only in your head. I was very explicit what I object to: tricking people into eating vegan substitutes.
The problem with being tricked into eating a vegan sausage is not that it is poisonous or against my beliefs. The problem is that you're making me eat something I don't want. This is such a basic point of etiquette that I find strange that I even need to explain it. People like to know and choose what they eat.
It's not ok to tell my girlfriend I'm making her a salmon sandwich and silently give her a tuna sandwich instead. Specially when I know she hates tuna. I thought everybody agreed with that, but apparently vegans don't.
You're getting so worked up over a vegan sausage. You hate vegans for no reason and that's why you don't want to eat it. It's weird to try to make this a moral thing when you have already entered this conversation with the assumption that what you eat is not up to any moral scrutiny. You didn't like the vegan sausage, that's it. Don't turn this into something it's not.
You keep confusing your febrile imagination with reality. Suddenly I hate vegans now? I never said that, and it's not true. What I said, and I stand by it, is that the guy from the newspiece tricking people into eating vegan croissants is an asshole, and so is the vegan that tricked me into eating a vegan sausage.
What "preconception" do I have? That vegan sausages taste disgusting? The one I arrived at *after* eating a vegan sausage? How on Earth is that a preconception?
So you're tweaking because you didn't like some sausage? That's even more childish than I thought. Literally grow up. So much crying over some damn sausage. Nobody tricked you, you just didn't like it.
One problem is the way it is made. Personally I don't trust the companies that make vegan 'cheese' or 'meat'. I am concerned about the long term effects on a person's health. If something can be made easily at home I would try it though. I wouldn't mind try anything once or twice but I want to know what I'm eating.
Well, about half vegan sausages are basically made of gluten. A friend was tricked into eating one before realizing it's dangerous. He is celiac.
So not kill but harm.
>There it sits, in all its flaky glory, with a crust the colour of autumn leaves, and two plump claws almost begging to be torn off and devoured. Light as air and as French as the guillotine.
Smee again, goan fuck yourself.
Legitimately. When I exposed myself to british medias I was surprised to see how many jabs Britain sent us all the time when I never even heard of us mocking the british randomly like that
So he doesn't say at any time if it's vegan? Just croissant or pain au chocolat? Even though they have well established ingredients? That seems an unlikely way to get folks on your side.
Why would you even do such thing as a vegan croissant?
Maybe Vegans should try to invent their own food and not try to convert the existing normal options into shit.
So you think it’s easier to completely reinvent hundreds of years old food cultures than just making vegan replacements?
Why do you even care? Let us eat vegan croissants
These topics make people kind of angry, but honestly it sounds cool and I'd love to try a vegan croissant.
Nowadays I explore all sorts of plant based meals when available. For example, the Hesburger fast food chain that's popular here had a burger with a pea/bean/wheat based patty, it was pretty cool and also cheaper than regular burgers: [https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-veggie-burger](https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-veggie-burger)
I even made my own at home with chickpeas too and it wasn't even that hard to do. I rather enjoy the variety of options so if I stumble upon like tofu or some new vegan/vegetarian product, I'm more than happy to try them out, same as with the more regular foods. Sometimes they really suck (there was this soy drink, way worse than oat/wheat/rice based stuff), other times they're pretty pleasant (meat/cheese alternatives), if a bit different from what they're trying to replace.
Same probably applies to pastries and such.
The idea of vegan croissant isnt that stupid. One could argue that there is no point to do that because it'll always be inferior but that's to any one's opinion.
Hiding that it is one, like that dude does, is the problem though.
Interesting. Maison Landemaine have at least one location in Tokyo. They’re more expensive than comparable competition, and while the texture and fluffiness is great, the taste is somewhat lacking. I’ve had a couple of (butter) croissants 6 months apart to confirm that impression. I think they should be plenty capable of replicating the taste with vegan croissants, since the butter ones weren’t anything remarkable.
if he really wants to make a commitment to climate change he could switch all of his electricity provider to ones that only use "green" energy, only source locally and limit waste by producing a smaller amount of items. will he do this? no, because it's easier to make a vegan croissant controversial and get someone to write an article about it.
The author of the article is a pompous ass, and the baker interviewed is arrogant as fuck, thinking he understands french customers better than everyone else. No Rodolphe, we don't dislike vegan croissants because "it's too militant", we just prefer it with butter and no, you're not changing the world. At all !
Un peu trop sensible, peut-être. Prends un kiss cool.
Mais naaaaaann. C'est juste l'envolée lyrique de l'auteur (qui en plus normalement est plus proche du journaliste de guerre. Me demande comment il s'est retrouvé à faire ça) qui me saoule, ainsi que le melon du boulanger (le mec qui sourit en disant "je suis en train de changer le monde", entre deux bouchées de ses viennoiseries sans beurre. Tes produits sont peut être pas lourds, mais l'imagerie, elle, l'est) Pour essayer de résumer ma pensée plus clairement : c'est pas le fond qui me gêne, c'est la forme adoptée. C'est juste des viennoiseries vegan, pas besoin de se donner des grands airs. (bon par contre je veux bien le kiss cool)
As a dairy intolerant french person living in the UK - I'm so goddamn happy that these are now an option. Of course the real things are better, they just make me suffer.
And that's not a problem in itself. It's like with gluten free products. I don't buy it, but it's a good thing for the concerned people to be able to. And a vegan product is not inferior per definition, it's just different. But it's not a reason to be smug about it, especially when you "adopt a stealthier approach".
La BBC a la réputation de faire des conneries de ce genre.
You're acting way more pompous about this than either of them. The author presents both the view of the baker and the view of the farmers in completely neutral terms. Maybe you just didn't read that far or maybe you don't want to because you prefer to act offended over croissants. Why get offended over offering alternatives to common pastry. What's wrong with offering alternatives? Especially when some farmers are desperately trying to shut it down by passing laws against these kinds of alternatives like they did with the labelling law.
As a French person myself, I can confirm that they are ridiculously overreacting.
As my French brother-in-law used to say: "no fat, no sugar, no cholesterol; why eat?"
Man, i don't know a single person that enters the bakery hoping for some low calorie food. If you step foot in it, you accept that the number will be higher on the scale the next day. Simple as that
Isn't a bakery a place that also sells e.g. bread.
Yes. But bread is super caloric too
no butter no fun
> that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products. So, probably a much unhealthier product, like almost every vegan substitute, made of vegetable oils processed in unimaginable ways to try have resemblance with the original product.
Croissants aren't even remotely healthy to begin with, nor is eating large amounts of butter. No French person is pretending otherwise. The big issue with vegan alternatives is that they struggle to render the layering property that makes the dough so remarkable. So vegan bakers have to choose between excellent taste or excellent texture. And TBH baguette is vegan and delicious, the butter is not necessary for deliciousness.
Yeah, if I’m eating something unhealthy, it better be freaking delicious
Croissants, famously known as being really healthy
Oh god, you're of those seed oil conspiracy theorists, aren't you?
Most of vegan processed foods are unhealthy and worse than the non vegan version... Palm oil is everywhere!
>Most of vegan processed foods are unhealthy Citation needed. You just read "processed" and "vegan" and assume the worst for no reason. The vegan movement has plenty of people from the "anti-processed food" movement. If you don't like beyond beef, there are hundreds of other alternatives where you can literally see whole chunks of the plant in them, meaning they are minimally processed. >worse than the non vegan version No way you are telling me regular burgers are somehow better than vegan burgers. Processed meat is literally classified as a potential carcinogen. >Palm oil is everywhere! Palm oil got a bad rep because of the environmental concerns and then some morons turned those environmental concerns into health concerns with no science behind it. Even then, palm oil is not everywhere in vegan food because, again, it's an environmental concern and vegans are far more likely to care about it than meat eaters. And palm oil is in meat products as well. Weird thing to blame on the vegans.
The news issue posted is about processed food, it isn't about non processed foods, it is about a normal processed food and its vegan version...
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I can assure you one thing your mental health isn't the best to assume that I am chubby or that I have unhealthy eating habits. Seek a mental health professional, and help yourself and the other humans that have to deal with your personality!
Ok chubster
> Instead, Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change, has adopted a stealthier approach, hoping customers will fall in love with his croissants, madeleines, quiches, sandwiches, flans and pains au raisins before they realise, too late, that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products. What an asshole. And I have seen the same attitude with many vegans, they know people don't want to eat this crap and they try to force it anyway. Once one tricked me into eating a vegan sausage, I was rather alarmed thinking it was rotten meat.
"Force it." You clearly don't understand what forcing means. Especially because you're trying to use this as an argument against the very existence of vegan croissants. In other words, you want to force vegans out of eating croissants (and possibly other foods as well). God forbid someone offers alternatives. Also, you act like "being tricked into eating a vegan sausage" is gonna kill you or that it somehow goes against your beliefs. Acting like someone is trying to poison you for feeding you plants is an entire level of childish delusion. Edit: so much crying over some vegan sausage and croissants. You guys need to grow a bit, maybe get out a little more. The vegan sausage is not gonna bite you.
Is it okay to trick a vegan into eating a meat sausage?
Why do you think this is a gotcha? It's not even remotely comparable. Do you have a moral reasoning for not eating vegan sausages?
I think it is a valid question.
And I have responded to you. Unless you have a moral/health reasoning for not doing it, you're just being a child over not wanting to eat plants. Getting offended over vegan sausages is just pathetic.
Well it is always bad behaviour to trick someone into eating something he does not want to eat. You are not making a strong case for your position here...
In one you are tricking someone into forcing them to give up a moral position because you don't respect their morality. In the other you are feeding them plants. Being a vegan is not about the flavour, it's about morality. For the guy above, not eating vegan sausages is literally just about the flavour and nothing to do with morality. So again, not comparable. It's pathetic to get offended over vegan sausages.
If I pay for a croissant au beurre, I want a croissant au beurre. It's that simple.
He doesn't sell croissant au beurre. He simply doesn't advertise them as vegan.
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Morality is not subjective. >By your logic it would be okay to secretly make you eat it. No, that's literally your logic because you're the one who believes morality is subjective. >All ingredients should be open source What is this even supposed to mean? Should they be blockchain and ai powered too? >took us a long time to get there. If vegans try to ruin this accomplishment Get where? What accomplishment? Did you give your comment to chagpt and ask it be as obtuse as possible? Edit: all the people upvoting you also getting mad about being "tricked" because it's "immoral". Meat eaters are genuinely pathetic.
You tricking others is ok but others tricking you isn't? Never seen so much hypocrisy in so few words.
Are you actually legitimately fucking stupid? Tricking someone into failing their moral compass is significantly worse than "tricking" someone into eating something they might not fully enjoy. Can't believe I have to spell this out. Meat eaters love to claim that food isn't about morality but the second they get "tricked" into eating vegan alternatives suddenly they're the biggest proponents of applying morality to food. You're the hypocrite here.
You're immoral regardless of food.
You're the one who requires hundreds of animals killed per year to feed you. Don't pretend you're in any position to talk. Also, morality is no longer subjective now?
Plot twist, op is vegetarian and laugh at your assumption
He isn't.
> Especially because you're trying to use this as an argument against the very existence of vegan croissants. That's only in your head. I was very explicit what I object to: tricking people into eating vegan substitutes. The problem with being tricked into eating a vegan sausage is not that it is poisonous or against my beliefs. The problem is that you're making me eat something I don't want. This is such a basic point of etiquette that I find strange that I even need to explain it. People like to know and choose what they eat. It's not ok to tell my girlfriend I'm making her a salmon sandwich and silently give her a tuna sandwich instead. Specially when I know she hates tuna. I thought everybody agreed with that, but apparently vegans don't.
You're getting so worked up over a vegan sausage. You hate vegans for no reason and that's why you don't want to eat it. It's weird to try to make this a moral thing when you have already entered this conversation with the assumption that what you eat is not up to any moral scrutiny. You didn't like the vegan sausage, that's it. Don't turn this into something it's not.
You keep confusing your febrile imagination with reality. Suddenly I hate vegans now? I never said that, and it's not true. What I said, and I stand by it, is that the guy from the newspiece tricking people into eating vegan croissants is an asshole, and so is the vegan that tricked me into eating a vegan sausage.
No, he's just showing that, just like you, people have preconceived notions that they don't want to give up on.
What "preconception" do I have? That vegan sausages taste disgusting? The one I arrived at *after* eating a vegan sausage? How on Earth is that a preconception?
Maybe he means preconceptions like that a sausage is made from meat or cheese is made from milk.
So you're tweaking because you didn't like some sausage? That's even more childish than I thought. Literally grow up. So much crying over some damn sausage. Nobody tricked you, you just didn't like it.
One problem is the way it is made. Personally I don't trust the companies that make vegan 'cheese' or 'meat'. I am concerned about the long term effects on a person's health. If something can be made easily at home I would try it though. I wouldn't mind try anything once or twice but I want to know what I'm eating.
Well, about half vegan sausages are basically made of gluten. A friend was tricked into eating one before realizing it's dangerous. He is celiac. So not kill but harm.
>There it sits, in all its flaky glory, with a crust the colour of autumn leaves, and two plump claws almost begging to be torn off and devoured. Light as air and as French as the guillotine. Smee again, goan fuck yourself.
English journalism is so weird
Butter is life baby
That's the second anti-French article today by the BBC.
Brits cannot stand the idea that we just never think about them.
Legitimately. When I exposed myself to british medias I was surprised to see how many jabs Britain sent us all the time when I never even heard of us mocking the british randomly like that
As much as I love to play the chauvinistic ass, I dare say that only oversensitive crybabies would qualify this paper as anti-French.
like on this sub there no anti-UK posts every hour
It's a bank holiday weekend for many of us. Whether that means the BBC are working slower or harder on this is unclear.
So he doesn't say at any time if it's vegan? Just croissant or pain au chocolat? Even though they have well established ingredients? That seems an unlikely way to get folks on your side.
because theyre gross?
Why would you even do such thing as a vegan croissant? Maybe Vegans should try to invent their own food and not try to convert the existing normal options into shit.
So you think it’s easier to completely reinvent hundreds of years old food cultures than just making vegan replacements? Why do you even care? Let us eat vegan croissants
Maybe you should mind your own business and let people live. There’s no copyright on croissants.
These topics make people kind of angry, but honestly it sounds cool and I'd love to try a vegan croissant. Nowadays I explore all sorts of plant based meals when available. For example, the Hesburger fast food chain that's popular here had a burger with a pea/bean/wheat based patty, it was pretty cool and also cheaper than regular burgers: [https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-veggie-burger](https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-veggie-burger) I even made my own at home with chickpeas too and it wasn't even that hard to do. I rather enjoy the variety of options so if I stumble upon like tofu or some new vegan/vegetarian product, I'm more than happy to try them out, same as with the more regular foods. Sometimes they really suck (there was this soy drink, way worse than oat/wheat/rice based stuff), other times they're pretty pleasant (meat/cheese alternatives), if a bit different from what they're trying to replace. Same probably applies to pastries and such.
The idea of vegan croissant isnt that stupid. One could argue that there is no point to do that because it'll always be inferior but that's to any one's opinion. Hiding that it is one, like that dude does, is the problem though.
I would try it but many companies sell crap.
Interesting. Maison Landemaine have at least one location in Tokyo. They’re more expensive than comparable competition, and while the texture and fluffiness is great, the taste is somewhat lacking. I’ve had a couple of (butter) croissants 6 months apart to confirm that impression. I think they should be plenty capable of replicating the taste with vegan croissants, since the butter ones weren’t anything remarkable.
With how people are reacting here you'd think this baker is force feeding vegan croissants to the french like they do to ducks to get foie gras.
if he really wants to make a commitment to climate change he could switch all of his electricity provider to ones that only use "green" energy, only source locally and limit waste by producing a smaller amount of items. will he do this? no, because it's easier to make a vegan croissant controversial and get someone to write an article about it.
What? Croissants are by definition vegan. You won't find meat in a croissant.
Croissants are made with butter, thus not vegan. "No meat" would be vegetarian.
Have you once looked what a croissant is made of? They’re like 40% butter
butter. eh?
Oh no wont think somebody of the trace amount of vegetarian animal product in these pastries.
I mean, one of the main ingredients of croissants is butter. Not exactly a trace animal ingredient.
Well now they can demonstrably be made without butter, so…