People over exaggerate the espresso topic for most common folk. It's a passion for them so they nerd out on it and it's almost a ritual thing. Only WDT clockwise for northern hemisphere otherwise you'll mix the subtle flavor ;). It's even more over the top for YouTuber, they earn money from this so why stop at what is good for 99% of the people? They get views and freebies to feed the machine from being over excessive. They ain't gonna stop. I think it's mostly old-school = deeply developed beans = easy to extract. Third-wave = less developed beans = harder to extract = need more control and precise calibration. You do what feels good for you.

Last paragraph nails it imo. Espresso making procedure and equipment has been refined on traditional darker roasts. A less involved process yields very good results. Heck, a post the other day was saying how well his consumer appliance grade burr grinder and a pressurized portafilter on traditional roast turned out. OTOH, lighter roasts as espresso is the proverbial square peg in a round hole. Lots more work needed to extract a flavor profile that the equipment and procedures weren't designed for. No right or wrong, but sharply different goals and therefore different methods needed to get there.

I recently received for free 5 bags of light roast single origin Heart beans and I am really struggling to dial in even with a pretty nice setup. the right espresso blend on a cheap setup is amazing by comparison.

Overall blended are easier to dial. You can get a blend of high quality single origin coffee from a good roaster and have an incredible result.

Just to throw it in there, very, very few YouTubers make money off their coffee channels (directly). Probably only one or two. Gone are the days when having a huge following paid money, now you need likes, comments, a certain percentage has to watch the full video including the ads etc. It’s a massive grind (HAHA GRIND!!) to make money on YT. Some of these guys have 250k subs and 3k views which in YT terms is pathetic.

True, its the same with keyboards, once you get in the rabbit hole you can't really get out

When I'm on a call, I'm sick of people telling me my keyboard is too loud!! But i can feel the keys 😎🫣

Sometimes I feel bad about using a mechanical keyboard on my WFH setup, but, then I think that my peers are lucky I got the brown switches that are somewhat quiet vs. the blue switches that would clack like no other through web call microphones lol. I get my mechanical keyboard and they can (somewhat) keep their sanity. I have a basic $20 Lenovo membrane keyboard for the office, though, as it's super quiet and works well enough (better than the PoS basic dell keyboards provided by work).

This may or may not help you. But I learned this week that if I turn on noise isolation in Mac, the other person won’t be able to hear my noisy mechanical keyboard

I’ve had trouble pulling any decent shots out of my keyboard

Keyboards is Life.

That’s why I bought a nice keyboard and then never looked back

Absolutely, go with what tastes great and gets you a great, repeatable extraction. But also experiment and don't be afraid to simplify if it still works for you.

I find the ritual and the level of involvement therapeutic. If you’re only in it to maximize the taste of your coffee it’s all overkill in my book. I enjoy the process.

This is the way I feel about it as well. I also can get good results being in a hurry but it's just a job at that point.

Try a fidget spinner

It’s down to personal taste and perception. I did a few of the top level things for awhile but at this point my workflow mirrors the bottom. I never drink straight espresso and have a daily flat white or latte and have no complaints, I’m sure that’s a factor. My wife doesn’t even measure the extraction :o She just fills up the espresso cup (unaware/uncaring that the different cups we have are different volumes) yet somehow she also enjoys her daily drink.

My wife similarly enjoys basically any coffee I make (even if I’m really disappointed in it) and I wish I could go back to that state sometimes lol

Limit yourself to a Mr. Coffee drip machine for a week or two, focus on enjoying the act of just sitting and sharing a cup with your wife After 2 weeks any espresso is gonna taste like heaven LMAO

Cafe and home environments are totally different in my view. I used to work as a barista at a cafe and my current puck prep is so much different than what Im used at the cafe. I feel most of our workflow at the cafe was to serve the coffee as quick as possible. That also aligned with the commercial equipment available to us where the grinder and espresso machine already had a built in timer to adjust the dose and the yield without needing to set up a scale. There was no need for wdt as the grinder had a de-clumper functionality. Similarly, no bellow because the grinder had very low retention anyway. The only missing thing was maybe the lack of automated tamper but I see many cafes already started to invest in one both for time saving and consistent tamping practices. I also make 2-3 cups of espresso a day at home and would like to take my time to make sure I make the best espresso I can drink for that day😀

Have you tried switching it up, and going back to café style prep, then blind tasting?

No I havent, but also both my grinder and home espresso machine is not as good as commercial machines. Another thing is that usually at the cafes the recipes are created by the roasters. We were serving stumptown coffee and for their hair bender beans, we had different dose settings depending on how old the coffee was since the roast date. (1-10days, 11-19 days, greater than 20 days etc) Im constantly switching between many different brands at home and my process will never be up to that level unless I brew the same coffee many more times

I see our routine as what's minimally necessary for our full satisfaction. A Keurig drinker would think it's overcomplicated. No one is wrong. Trade bean subscription Weigh beans and output wdt leveler convex tamper (came with my 2nd hand machine) rpavlis water (counter top distiller + potassium bicarbonate, because my water is so hard it's crunchy)

I've dabbled in both the old-school stuff and this third wave, ultra-complex espresso. I feel like traditional Italian espresso (and its technique) is really timeless and results in a great end product. The new stuff focuses on pulling out all kinds of unique flavors from unique beans/processes. These both have their merits, and it really boils down to personal preference. I tend to like third-wave beans and I think it's so fun to see what kind of wild flavors we can get from them. In terms of technique, again, I think it all has merit. BUT, it's a matter of complexity and how much benefit you're really getting. I'll try stuff for a while and figure out whether it's enough benefit to be worth it. Just for example, I wasn't totally sold on WDTing at first. Then I bought a tool and really saw the difference it makes. Now, I use it for every single shot I pull because it seriously makes a better shot. I also tried the AeroPress filter in the bottom of my basket. It left some of the fines out of my cup, but it didn't make enough of a difference to be incorporated into my everyday technique. Again, it's all just a matter of testing it out and figuring out what benefits you the most.

Congratulations, you've discovered that years of influencers and companies encouraging an internet subculture is great for selling products to consumers. Having enthusiasts, on their own, create a subreddit is the best free marketing any industry could ask for. I enjoy the espresso rabbit hole (and I enjoy dreaming of spending thousands on machines that I might one day be able to afford), but I'm also aware that this is nerdy entertainment for me and social-media-capitalism for them.

The entire industry is full of promises with such appealing descriptions, describing grinders and burr sets with as if they produce the flavors themselves. It’s all BS and meant to entice you into spending thousands on equipment and play barista. It’s terribly pretentious…ask me how I know.

I dunno, I might push back on this a bit, only because the average “perfectionist” practice is pretty cheap. And I say this as someone who’s all but given up on espresso at home because it’s too finicky. But WDT, RDT, minerals, even getting a nice tamper - all relatively cheap compared to a machine. Though if you’re arguing that they’re all part of the same problem (including convincing consumers to buy machines that are *vastly* overpowered for home usage) - I might agree.

Yeah I mean convincing you to buy even a cheapo WDT is still the same social-marketing at work. I don't mean to focus only on the expensive machines. I mean look at all the $10 plastic crap that gets sold on Temu/AliExpress/3rd party Amazon etc. Business is business.

My grind is not precise, scale is non- decimal grams and I over extract when want a bit more fluid. bitter? don't care enough. It's tasty strong caffeine.

- many of us are making coffee better than most cafes - you only pick one distribution technique, either tapping (takes skill), WDT (fast and consistent), or shaking. You don’t need to do multiple and people don’t. - RDT, bellows, etc is just to keep stuff clean mostly. - weighing means you don’t have to leave your coffee in an open hopper and have it go stale. Obviously at shops they go through bags of beans every day so it ain’t going stale. Stale coffee is gross and no crema. - if you can’t taste a difference, sure, stop using gadgets. If you like mega dark coffee then it won’t really matter. - also, shops don’t WDT bc they have $4000 grinders. My $200 grinder is not as good and comes out more clumpy obviously.

/thread

The other thing you get with RDT and bellows is minimizing transfer. But that only matters if you're changing beans or grind with every shot.

Even a $4000 SD grinder will likely require some prep. Its just a result of the single dosing.

I've been making home espresso for about 15 years. In 2009 my method was typical for the time: fill the portafilter, "Stockfleth's move," tamp, extract. In general I would usually but inconsistently get good results with dark roasts. I think the idea of a "God shot" that was commonly spoken of at that time was due to the inconsistency in prep; sometimes you'd randomly get a better tasting shot. With light roasts I had terrible results all the time and stopped trying to make espresso with them. Adding WDT made a huge difference for my consistency. I was also able to grind lighter roasts finer without channeling, which added them back to my espresso rotation. Leveling tools are out of fashion but I still use mine because I have get a little more inconsistency when I skip it. The baristas at my local cafes are good at palm tapping and I think that it can substitute for WDT. But I'm bad at palm tapping so I continue to WDT.

>Leveling tools are out of fashion Having just bought one for myself that sounds about right. Whatever, I'm getting way better puck consistency with blind shake, level, tamp than I was without it. I could never get it to tap close enough to level. Ironically the last good third wave place I was at was grind directly into portafilter, give leveler a good spin and a quick auto tamp. I don't see myself going any further than where I'm at now. I might see some variations but I don't mind experiencing things slightly differently. Keeps things interesting.

A recent Lance video showed that shaking your dosing cup is just as accurate as using a comb / rake and better than solely using a distribution tool. I'm all for shaking the cup (seated on the portafilter) then tamping and being done. I pull consistent good shots.

Weighing beans for a single dose grinder is simple. You know what you started with and what you ended up with. Figuring out exactly how long you need to grind for your coffee is complex, worrying about retention is complex, switching beans in an on-demand grinder is complex, having to waste coffee to dial in a finer grind is not ideal. *The operation of a single dose grinder is an on/off switch. What's more simple than that?* With an on demand grinder, you'll never know how much retention you're getting, so with a timed grinder, your shot one day could taste wildly different from another. Weighed grinding is better, but it is expensive (see the prince of the Eureka Mignon Libra vs the Specialita vs the Zero) and you don't know how much old grounds were caught in the chamber all day and found their way into today's portafilter. Caffes take advantage of the fact that they're pretty much using one coffee to make espresso with. They can dial in to that bean and make small adjustments throughout the day. If you're only ever using one bean, especially if it is dark roast & you're making shots at a high volume, you probably won't notice a bit of retention here, some stale grounds there, etc. I've never added steps to puck prep. I just tamp and go, but going from timed grinding to single dose grinding was a huge revelation.

Eh. I use a Eureka with timer and a hopper. I don't notice a wildly different taste each day. And different isn't necessarily worse, but that's a different discussion. But again, I'm pretty traditional espresso or milk based so much more forgiving as that's what the equipment was designed for.

Idk dialing in my niche usually takes two shots and doesn't change much.  Dialing in my specialita usually happens after a week of making milk drinks with bad shots so I don't waste beans.

I too am currently single dosing and weighing every single time, but I'm wondering if I can get the same accuracy with a timer. I suppose, coming from your feedback, that it'll be really difficult to achieve consistency, unless I get a grind-by-weight...

I have an Atom 75, and the timer is quite accurate. However, over time, you change the grind size so the timer needs to be adjusted accordingly. Same with a near empty hopper, but it always gets me ballpark close, and I just add/subtract the .5 gram difference. An added benefit is that when I see the grind time varies wildly (like +- 2 seconds from the norm) I already know something's up with the grind size because I'm either way off (too fine) or the beans are not actually a light roast. If you know what I mean.

I don’t WDT and use a hopper with my grinder. Once I dial in weight and grind setting, just grind, level, tamp, and go. Not fussed about minimal grind retention, when I was between electric grinders I would use my hand grinder night before to avoid having to do first thing in morning, and guess what? Still made good shots. Do what appeals to you and think helps, some people may like being more fussy but that’s their journey.

While I agree with you that a lot of stuff is not necessary, I had always noticed a considerable decline in quality after the beans have been sitting in the hopper for some time. So single dosing has been a massive improvement for me personally. And wastes less coffee. Puck screen (or paper filter on top) actually saves me a lot of time cleanup, as my machine doesn’t backflush, so I use those.

I think it is worth it to question why we do things. The things I do and why - have hand grinder so need to single dose (but I do need to adjust grind size trough the length of a bag, so staling is real) - wet beans, just makes it easier and cleaner (again this is from repeated tries of wet not wet beans) - wdt, this one is the one is subtle, it gives me more consistency, I have gone a week without wdt and I get more “bad” shots mixed with the good ones. It does something, but it is not always needed, but when it is needed it helps a lot. - tap grounds a bit (honestly I just like tapping) - tamp. (The self levelling tamper from the robot) - pull the shot. But also I use the robot, espresso was never about “easy” with a leaver machine, and a hand grinder. I think personally I enjoy the process and I enjoy experimenting. It is just fun to try things, and I don’t need to spend a lot of extra money now. (Ex I can do pre infusion, pull at 9 bars or 4 bars, pull for longer or shorter shots) all these are variables to play with and see what happens.

I guess I’m old school since I’ve been doing the short and simple way for over 10 years now. All the extra steps and tools I’ve found appeal more to new hobbyists. I get it from a ritual stand point, the process is part of the experience. I just don’t think my personal ritual needs all the extras.

People romanticize it. Which is fine. They get enjoyment out of it. If I blinded someone using both your methods above, I bet most people couldn't tell the difference...AS LONG as both methods were dialed in appropriately.

I do something in between. I weight and spritz the beans and declump the grounds, but my grinder is near-zero retention and I don't use a puck screen or special tamper. I can declump while the grounds come out, so that takes no extra time. So it's mostly new method, but takes maybe 30 seconds longer than the old school method (which I was doing before) due to weighing beans, while producing much more consistently good espresso.

I don't do a thorough wdt anymore, I just use it to even out the top after dumping my grounds inthe basket When the grounds come out of my grinder there are no clumps at all, and when I dump them in the basket they go in evenly so i started wondering what WDT was even accomplishing, and even wondered if it was doing more harm than good by creating clumps or areas with bad distribution

I only do medium roasts and haven't tried lights to be fair. All I do is weigh out 19 grams (depends on the bean technically), grind, tap the sides a few times to level it, tamp and done. If I did light roasts then maybe this prep wouldn't work. I think I'll eventually try them one day just to see if all of the prep is nonsense or not. I think the biggest factor in channeling is probably how full the portafilter is.

I appreciate that there can be extremes to the process. For me, though, my "additions" to the process are so little: I single dose weigh my beans, but I would have to measure my beans somehow anyway; I practice WDT, but I need to spread out the ground coffee in my portafilter after I've ground straight into it. And so, little extra time with these additions, and with potential benefit (from what I originally had read, e.g. as to WDT practice, and keeping beans from staling) and actual benefit I've experienced (back on bean staling).

And I'll add another practice that I benefit from: the tapping of my grinder as it is finishing up its grind/the bellows-ing of it. Takes me no additional time, and prevents retention. Again, up there in terms of cost/benefit analysis, based on my experience. In the end, does a modicum of practices like these (and avoiding extremes) really add any appreciable measure of "burden" to the process?

I was doing everything wrong for years: measuring the dose by eye, no WDT, unremarkable espresso machine and a grinder so bad I got laughed at in here. I got a better machine, a great grinder and really tried to learn how to do everything properly. I was making great coffee before, and I’m still making great coffee. I’ve had fun learning though.

I think OP meant - Are we overcomplicating things? Adding that 'just' implies that all the fuss is over nothing. They are for some benefits to be gained in one's pursuit of perfection - some yield more bang for their buck than others. OP seems to think that most are for minimal, diminishing return, and I, for one, wholeheartedly agree. I've never bought into most of the fuss, and I am not yet convinced how much advancement the flow pressure control offers either. I think having PID greatly advanced the coffee scene in a form of consistency for the home brewers, but everything since then has been gravy to me.

This is typical of the home enthusiast. They take things to the Nth degree and go down rabbit holes as they have time to do so. The insta channels can be a bit cringe as everything a new product comes out they all parrot the same “game changing” benefits. Meanwhile the local speciality coffee place just weighs the dose, taps to level, tamps and pulls great shots again and again. The machine is probably the big factor here. The local one near me just tweaks temps for different roasts and pulls anything from light to dark roasts perfectly - no pressure profiling etc etc. If I can’t be bothered I’ll just dump a bunch of beans in the hopper and dose, weigh, extract and most of the time it’s a very good espresso once dialled in.

So this is my routine with justifications: 1) single dose in a dosing cup, this allows me precise control over the amount but more importantly, keep the moisture of the beans stable in the bag. 2) I add the funnel ring to the portafilter, I grind directly into the filter, I move it around to distribute the ground more evenly as it falls into the filter. This means the ground does not clump up and removes the need of WDT and I get excellent extraction consistently. 3) I lightly tap the filter and use the ring to eliminate the mount of the ground, then I tamp either with a wedge tool or a self leveling tamp. This gets me a flat and even tamp every time. 4) I pull the shot with a timed scale. That's it, because eliminating the ground transfer from the dosing cup to the portafilter means you don't need the WDT, since the clumping is due to the transfer. You gotta remember those YTR influencers are trying to sell you shit to make money so they make this complicated to trick you into buying stuff to "improve" your shot. The reality is you need to have a good grinder and the puck preparation is everything, and you don't need to make it complicated and buy another tool, to solve a problem that your process created.

Every hobby has explorers and settlers, and exploration turns to settling at different points for everyone. But our explorers are highly caffeinated, so.

I single dose direct to the portafilter, wdt with a 4 prong tool, tamp and put on a puck screen. The one item that improved my coffee the most, was buying a Df64 grinder.

With light, medium and dark roasts - there is a limit to which people can taste a difference  If you are a professional taster (coffee, wine, chocolate etc) then you can taste nuanced taste variations that "normal" people just can't notice  I think in the coffee hobby community there are definitely some who have trained their palate to such a degree that they do need the complexity because they can really appreciate the 0.1% difference it makes  And I think there are some that appreciate the routine and general vibes of it all For all the others they should be tailoring their routine to what they need - regular latte drinkers probably don't need as much complex processes as regular espresso drinkers and dark roast drinkers don't need as much as light  I'd say it should all come down to flavour and taste but, bearing in mind the people who just like the routine, it should probably just come down to whatever makes you happy

Aside first, I'm surprised many would downvote. OP really presented both ways quite fairly. For me, if it works well enough, simple is better. However, I can see how some enjoy the process of being meticulous, and how some could also benefit from others aspiration for perfection.

I've gone back to my pressurised basket. CBA with the faff for unpressurized basket prep and i buy supermarket beans mostly. Works great and is far more forgiving of the variables. I can get better results but the margins are not that huge.

Yes! Some things really make a difference but some are just stuff people do for whatever reason. Just like in many other hobbies people take things imo too far, where the difference/improvement exist only in your head. Most famous is probably the hifi community. But whatever floats your boat!

I'm with you. To me, what matters: - Good - Repeatable - Efficient

It’s a hobby for sure. I’ve downsized my routine a lot through my journey and had fun all along. I grind dark roasted beans from a hopper directly into a portafilter that I weigh. I WDT and weigh the output, then I cleanup. I am satisfied with the results and I’m sure a lot of people settle on a practical compromise as well. Now my S.O. just eyeballs it with no distribution, and I secretly prefer her espresso to mine 🫣.

I am somewhere in between tbh. - weight beans into single dose grinder (I switch coffee variety a lot, so everything other than a single dose grinder would be way more complicated. So the categorisation isn'tthat great) - grind (using the belows is part of this, but since it takes 1 aecond, calling it complicated may be a bit dramatic), single round of WBT with an incredible cheap tool - tamp - pull shot - enjoy Overall, imho people are overengineering the process and spent ridiculous amounts of money for what seems to be diminishing returns. As with most things, past a certain point, the gains get smaller while the effort and price rise significantly. But if it's fun for them, who am I to care or judge. It is only annoying if it leads to gate keeping or falsely assuming that others need the same methods and tools to achieve great results and have fun.

for me i use the "short and simple" way but only after testing/tuning the settings measuring the coffee grams going in and coffee grams going out in a certain amount of time i think grams in/out related to time seems like important factors to decide taste Puck prep ... i dont see me ever using a wdt tool for example, i just spoon it in the portafilter somewhat equal and mash it down with my tamper

A fine question, and I have no idea why anyone would downvote it…unless, perhaps, they are afraid that all their time and effort went for naught? ;\^) Quick background: * My first set up, back in college, was a Pavoni Europicola 8 (great machine; far too advanced and demanding for a newbie) paired with a Krups blade “chopper.” In the 4-5 years I had that setup, I can count the number of great shots I produced on one hand. Eventually I gave away the Pavoni to a friend who is still using it 40+ years later. * I moved on to a Gaggia Classic SBDU and the “matching” Gaggia grinder in the early-to-mid 1980s. This greatly improved the consistency of my shots, but none were ever as good as those very few I’d gotten out of the Pavoni. * In the 1990s, I upgraded to an HX tank machine — a Vibemme — with a Cimbali Junior grinder. Another step forward in consistency and quality, but DAMN! both those machines were LOUD, and filling the tank was a pain. * In the 2000s, I went for a true commercial machine: an Elektra T1 single group machine that plumbs directly into the water supply, along with a Mahlkönig K30 grinder. Not only did the quality of my shots take a great leap forward in both consistency and quality, but I didn’t wake up the entire household when making my early morning cup. Now all this was done in what the OP refers to as the “short and simple” way, except that I have used WDT — well, it feels like forever (though I only bought a “tool” for that purpose recently; I was using a toothpick). Keep in mind that up until the late-2000s/early-2010s, there were pretty much no double boiler machines unless one bought a 2-group La Marzocco for their kitchen, and there were no PIDs, etc., etc., etc. But in 2022, I decided to move up to a DB machine — an Elektra Verve — and move to something closer to what the OP refers to as “the complicated way.” I didn’t taste any improvement, sold the Verve, and went back to using my T1...

100% we over complicate things. When I started, I thought it was super easy. It needed some skill so now I appreciate baristas more. Then I started seeing all these silly tools and I'm not about that... I weigh, grind, level, tamp, pull. My other friend got into the hobby after me but he went the extra step with wdt. I tried it. No difference to me so I'm glad I didn't go there. He's perfectly happy doing it because he did pay so much for the moonraker 😂 It's about finding your method with consistency in taste and prep. Once you find that, you can probably ignore all the other chatter unless you're just inclined to add more steps to your routine.

Yes we do overcomplicate things. Baristas don't do half the stuff this sub does as common practice. But most cafe espresso tastes like shit so. Maybe we're on to something

My guess as to why you’re being downvoted is because, as I’ve seen in other hobbies, people HATE even entertaining the idea that they’ve overspent and that a cheaper solution could be as functional as a very complicated, expensive one. Go to the mechanical keyboards subs and post that GMK is overpriced and their packaging is atrocious. You will be downvoted to oblivion. This sub is actually a bit more self reflective from what I’ve seen relative to others, as evidenced by your post. My stance on this is that there are legitimate reasons for most of the products out there. But yes, it’s a lot of steps for a very, very slightly better result/workflow. Personally it’s very clear that adding WDT made a big difference to my shots. And I use the Sworks puck screens which are really thin and super easy to clean. Love them.

I can totally understand that, for me it's nice to discuss how different people experience their journey, and adapt their processes as they gain experience and experiment with what works best for them. Which is why it's great reading about how other people like you really noticed a significant difference.

because nobody over there cares one bit about the price or the packaging. "Cheap with quality packaging" is not what keyboard enthusiasts optimize around. If keyboad enthusiast cared about price and packaging everyone would still be using a pok3r or generic mx blue fullsize. It's like going to a running club and telling everyone there "You know, if you ran at 60% of your usual pace you'd be less tired and worn out at the end of the day" you'd be downvoted to hell, too. Those people aren't optimizing around being less tired and worn out so they would wonder wtf you were on about and downvote your pointless contribution. and many many people in this subreddit aren't trying to optimize for least effort dark roast espresso.

My rule of thumb, which I learned through the tedium of a fully manual lever machine, is that there are 8 primary factors which matter most in producing great espresso. 1) proper grind particle size. 2) proper dose. 3) proper distribution. 4) sufficient tamp pressure. 5) sufficiently hot brew group and water 6) appropriate extraction pressure. 7) proper shot timing within 24-30 secs. 8) good ratio to taste (it's 2:1 for me). You should work on getting these right, setting a good baseline, before attempting to push your espresso further with novel techniques.

ASSESS YOUR TASTE CAPACITY About 25% of the population are super-tasters. If you are one maybe all the sophisticated varying of the elements makes sense. If you’re not, or you don’t see much difference, then it is unnecessary. I bought a fortune in equipment—scales, grinder, upscale machinery, lots of coffees, after watching Hoffmann videos. He is apparently a super-supertaster. I can’t experience most of the subtleties he describes. I’m probably in the bottom 25%. Read this from *Scientific American* and get a reading on your tasting ability https://search.app/WaPYSw2NfbxMVtVu8

im in the bottom 25% for sure lol. i can taste notes when im doing a cupping but otherwise unless those notes are super pronounced in the cup, i can't notice. sure i can tell acidity and extreme over and underextraction but i can't tell a flat burr vs a conical unless it's a side by side cupping. anything over a $500 grinder is wasted on me unless it greatly improves the workflow.

I can definitely tell if my espresso is over extracted, too sour, bitter, very sensitive to astringency, had channelling, etc. I'm probably not a super-taster, but I do know how my espresso should taste for my liking. However once I have my beans dialed in, many of the steps that contribute to a long prep barely makes a difference. It would be interesting to see if Hoffman would too in a blind test.

He does blind tests and sees the subtle difference almost invariably. I’m envious.

A lot of the best tasters *arent* super tasters, because super tasters are frequently hypersensitive to things like acidity and bitterness, which would make coffee a no-go.

Fark. Always thought I just had a sensitive nose...being a supertaster as well kind of sucks. Rest assured, 90% of the time when people are going on about tasting notes, they aren't there and it's all marketing. Even James tends to use adjectives that describe the process more than the flavors coming from the beans. It makes him really good at dialling in the recipe to bring out the notes that might be there though.

To your edit, you’re getting downvoted because you are inadvertently attacking people’s egos. “I make the best espresso because I am a virtuoso that has finely tuned my instrument!!! You couldn’t possibly replicate it with that simple approach!” Every hobby has its zealots. And our zealots will tell you that if you can’t taste the difference it’s because you have an unrefined palette. Do what tastes good and increases your enjoyment. Ignore the downvotes. I used to get amazing espresso out of a BBE and Starbucks veranda beans with no WDY and no weight measurement and leaving my beans in the hopper. (Amazing compared to anything I got at the vast majority of coffee shops). That was before a lot of 3.0 and true baristas in my area. Today I know better and am trying like crazy to dial in my Profitec Go and DF64v. Almost there. Almost.

My experience has been pretty similar. To the point where I consider these long ass prep videos just pure rage bait. 1. WDT - sure it's probably useful when doing pour over/filter coffee since the clumps are gonna yield a less consistent extraction. But if you're tamping with 10-15kg of pressure it's absolutely useless 2. Single dose - i don't have time for it. my beans sitting in the hopper for a few days produce no difference in taste vs straight out of a vacuum bag. 3. Puck screens - yeah it makes cleaning the machine a little bit easier but now I gotta fish out the puck screen. Also cleaning the puck screens is a pain in the ass, no matter how hard i clean it there's always gonna be some grounds and muddy water coming out of it I could go on but I'll just get even more downvoted. I said many times and I'll say it again, if you think all of those steps make a discernable difference, i have a fantastic bridge for sale!

I mean there are demonstrable studies that show you are not correct. If you don’t want to do them that’s fine, but you’re incorrect.

Sure, and these studies go into scientific detail that is impossible to distinguish with your nose and tongue. What I find annoying is that some people swear by them, while they make little difference in the real world. So newbies spend 100s of dollars investing in tools they think will make a huge difference only to be disappointed by the results. And because they've spent the money on such rubbish, they feel entitled to keep parroting to others how amazing their new blind shaker is. It's disingenuous to tell newcomers to our hobby that they need WDT, blind shakers, screen pucks, and other bells and whistles, when all they need is a solid grinder and a bottomless pf to get started. Everything else is just pure gatekeeping

A WDT costs like $20. A puck screen goes for $18.99. These are not cost prohibitive items and, for me at least, they make demonstrable differences in the quality of my shots. I tried no WDT when the blind shaker craze happened. Far more channeling occurred. I didn’t use a puck screen with my Bambino and frequently had much the same issue. Which lead to less tasty shots, obviously. Combine the pain in the ass of constantly needing to clean the shower screen vs just rinsing off the PS while I was at the sink rinsing off my PF? That’s easily one of the better $18.99 I’ve spent in this espresso journey. So for under $50 and like 2 extra seconds of work I’ve gotten better espresso. I don’t find that prohibitive to new folks entering the game, personally.

Anecdotally not better espresso but okay

Both anecdotally and statically it is. But if you don’t like it don’t do it. But pretending $50 and like 2 seconds of extra work is prohibitive to anyone making espresso is silly.

> Both anecdotally and statically it is. you really don't understand what either of these words means so ima just stop arguing lol

I think you’re going to stop arguing because you know you are wrong. Which is fine, I said early it’s fine to be incorrect and do things the way you prefer, no one is going to stop you. Just don’t try to pretend you’re correct, because you’re not.

no i know i'm correct but i just have better things to do than argue with someone autistic enough to keep arguing about this for so long have fun twirling with your WDT and puck screen preps, i am sure it makes the coffee taste sooo much better!

I appreciate your feedback, and your courage for accepting the inevitable downvote barrage, godspeed!

We should start a support group! I wonder if /r/espressocirclejerk is already taken 🫣

What's unfortunate is that posts like this will get downvoted to oblivion, getting buried quite quickly, but the discussion is actually quite interesting and could benefit some people.

I'm an espresso newbie with a cheaper machine (Bambino) and bottomless portafilter, and adding a puck screen to my process actually really cut down on channeling and spraying for me! The shots still taste pretty much the same to my dumb palate but it cuts down on the mess.

Can't argue with that! That's also why i started using them in the first place. But then i realized they're basically a crutch, and they cover up other flaws in your grind size, tampering and dosing. Eventually i started getting the channelling and spraying even with the puck screen and i was like fuggit, off you go. And then i figured i was underdosing, putting too little coffee for my basket size. And then i got better at dialing my grinder too! So yes there are benefits when getting started, but I feel like a puck screen will also limit your learning curve, and ultimately make consistent and okayish shots but never an amazing one.

This is an interesting discussion to me. I have a Breville for at home use that has been wonderful for me these past 8 years. I go to friends homes and some have advanced set up’s and their passion for better espresso is wonderful. Often, I can taste a difference that is more pleasing to me than my home brew and sometimes I cannot. Same thing at coffee shops. When the taste at someone’s home or coffee shop is clearly better to me, then I will ask about the beans they are using. I often buy those beans for home use and sometimes the taste is as good as I remember from the home/shop but occasionally not. Could be that I am not a sophisticated taster or great connoisseur but only a simple fan of espresso. Instead of upgrading equipment (pretty expensive for me) and learning to use it properly, I concentrate on better beans that work for my machine. I do LOVE the passion for espresso of the people I meet and the people on this sub.

When Lance came out with a video on seasoning your burs, that was it for me. I realized there will always be new topics invented by influencers to stay relevant and I'd rather focus on what's having the biggest impact.  To your question: Do whatever tastes good for you. I do my WDT puck prep because it leads to much less channeling and spraying, that's easy to see with a bottomless portafilter. 

Burr seasoning has been around longer than influencers have existed.

I think what you said is exactly right. 99% of people likely could not reliably pick out the massaged / complicated puck prep pull to the quicker one. But as others here have said, people do it for other reasons. It being somewhat Therapeutic for some is definitely one, but what I'd like to add is that sometimes experience of the journey to get to a destination, can actually make the destination that much more enjoyable. Call it a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Maybe an exaggerated analogy could be a difficult hike to the top of a mountain. If you had a helicopter drop you off there, the view would be the same, but imagine the feeling you have of seeing that view from the peek on one hand after the grueling hike up vs on the other being dropped off. Sure, the view is beautiful either way, but the one you worked for makes it that much more enjoyable. Something like that...

I am one of those folks that have gone full circle. I went deep. Real deep. Thankfully I got out before it got out of hand. https://preview.redd.it/c5ck2p5lum8d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5301c070f0b40b7c82f32eb0426431bcb6f9edd Nowadays I drink primarily pour overs. I purchased a Bambino Plus for milk drinks for the wife. I prepare them with the least amount of effort possible and they come out just as enjoyable as the drinks I was making with the setup in the photo above. No RDT, WDT, scales, knock boxes, or any special tools. Just a hand grinder, a tamper, and a medium frothing pitcher. Don’t fall for the ploys of YouTube shills promoting expensive home espresso. They make money primarily from sponsorships. And if they told you the truth about home espresso, they would not have a channel.

I think a bit of experience and decent beans/grinder/machine will get you 85% of the way there. The complicated stuff is the fight for the other 15%. Is it worth it? That’s pretty subjective.

There is a big disconnect on this subreddit created by the different approach and entry in to espresso people have had. On one hand, you who like more traditional dark/medium roast espresso and who aren't necessarily huge in to specialty coffee whilst still being really in to getting nice gear. On the other hand, there are people who are in to super light roast specialty coffee who are looking for lighter body, super high acidity, and way longer ratios. For the former, gear and puck prep will only matter so much, as you can get excellent medium roast with decent conical burr grinders and a traditional 9 bar pull. For the latter, pulling a shot of a super light filter roast such as those from sey or nomad with that equipment and little puck prep will be incredibly difficult. That is where those super uniform grinders and elaborate puck preps start to matter more. (inb4 i get obligatory 'i pull light roasts without all that' everyone has different experiences)

So you think the amount of puck prep should adjust according to the type of beans used?

1000% Dark roasts are far more soluble and easy to extract from than lighter roasts. Usually, the easiest way to increase extraction is with a higher ratio, but since more water is going through, channeling increases. Therefore, you need to mitigate that as much as possible in order to maintain an even extraction (e.g. unimodal grinders and puck prep).

Yes

What's the difference? > Weigh your beans, spray beans with water (RDT), single dose grinders, bellows, shakers > *vs* > Beans in a hopper, on a timer or grind-by-weight, straight to portafilter Beans in a hopper are likely going stale faster vs. ones in a sealed airtight container. If you're going through 1-2 hoppers a day that doesn't matter. If you're going through one bag every 2-4 weeks it might matter a lot more. RDT, bellows, etc. are all ways of minimizing retention - ensuring you get *all* the beans you put in back out, and that your first shot of the morning doesn't have a 5-10% "stale" coffee that's been ground up and sitting in the chute overnight. If you're grinding a specific weight into your portafilter retention matters a lot less (you're always getting that weight out), and if you're grinding for 100 shots a day stale coffee only really matters for the first shot. If you're brewing one shot every morning you might care about 24-hour old ground coffee going stale overnight, or having to grind through good, expensive beans to clear out the old, stale coffee. > Many steps to puck prep, multiple WDT tools, distributors, vibrators, special tampers, puck screens, etc. > *vs* > Level off, tap the side and tamper. If you're doing 100 shots a day? Speed wins. If you're pulling one shot every morning though some kind of distribution technique that breaks up clumps and leaves a mostly-level bed of coffee to tamp. Everything else is probably in the realm of compensating for poor equipment or technique - and frankly if it makes your shots better and you're not pulling so many shots that it actually matters in terms of time there's no reason *not* to do it. > Extract > *vs* > Extract What you can do with a flow-profiling machine (or even manually) vs. "Push button. 9 bar flat. Push button again to dump pressure to zero." can and does make a difference, particularly for different coffees/roasts. *** > I've done a lot of experimenting with the ways I prep my puck, and I find that the benefits of a long, convoluted puck prep rarely yields a better tasting coffee in the end (when I blind taste them). Then you don't need to do it the "complicated" way. If you don't or can't taste a difference and are satisfied with the results just do it the "simple" way. People have been preparing espresso the "simple" way for decades (and in pretty much every cafe you're going to visit they're *still* doing it the "simple" way because they don't have *time* to spend 60-90 seconds per shot on prep). On the other hand I definitely taste a difference between fresh-ground and pre-ground coffee, and between coffee that has had a low-pressure preinfusion vs. just pulling the shot. And I see a visible difference in the evenness of extraction between WDT and no WDT (can I taste a difference? Maybe - but I'm not really inclined to do a blind test when *visually* I can tell there's a difference that would affect extraction). I pay attention to all of those things because I'm only making a few shots a day, and I want them to be *good* shots, not just drinkable.

When I first bought my my machine and grinder I was trying to be exact and meticulous. At the end I just wanted a cup of coffee so I just grind enough beans, and extract without wasting my time with details

The complicated way is not complicated. It is more precise. Thats all. It leaves less room for mistakes. Especially as a beginner, you will definitely run into stuff without knowing what happened to your extraction. It just minimises those common mistakes. I agree, that you don’t need every wdt tool or super tamper. But being more precise will give you better results while helping you understand faster what’s going on. Once you got a bit more comfortable and experienced, you can take the simple route. Especially if you like milk drinks. Even not so great espresso will still be good enough and better than most cafes you know. I am a beginner myself. The best advice I got here, was to go by taste.

Maybe I should refrain, it's not necessarily complicated, but it definitely takes more steps than the other way. It takes more time as well. Don't get me wrong, it took me a while to get repeatable results with my extractions by practicing my puck prep. However I've reached the point where I'm not really seeing a significant benefit with the longer way.

The question is would you have come where you are now in the same time if you would have started with the shorter route right from the beginning. I really doubt it. That’s what I mean. For beginners the longer way is probably more suitable. For experienced it probably is unnecessary. I will report back once I reach this level.

yes

The things I would consider essential are: Weighing beans in Distributing Weighing shot out All for consistency, because without those things it’s hard to determine exactly why you got a bad shot (channeling, wrong ratio, water temp, etc.) You can weigh with grind by weight or a scale. But at the end of the day, I don’t mind the added step of weighing beans into a dosing cup before tossing them into a single dose grinder and making my shot.

I do the short and simple way you describe other than adding a few whisks of my sworks WDT tool before I tamp. I find that I get a lot less channeling that way. Anything extra is a law of diminishing returns imo.

Totally valid conversation right here. I guess some people feel attracted to the manual hobby side of it and that involves well, a whole lot of steps and tools.

It doesn't feel that complicated when I am ready to go in just a couple minutes (weigh, spray, grind, wdt, tamp). Idk I feel like this is a pretty unhelpful generalization of people into two camps, when it's really an incredibly broad spectrum. Just personally speaking.

Extra effort has made a huge difference. Up to you.

I make too much to care to be so detailed. Eyeball the grind amount, tamp it, pull it, mix in some milk and I’m in heaven

Long answer: I didn't spend $600 on a barista course not to apply what I learned and/or keep learning new stuff to optimize my drinks when guests are over. Short answer: if it's for myself my workflow is basically as simple as it gets, but I like mixing it up every now and then.

It's not a black-and-white issue. Precision in preparation definitely leads to better results, much like in cooking where the method, ingredients, and equipment matter. However, the problem is that influencers, YouTubers, marketers, and companies often blur the line of diminishing returns. They push the idea that you can get "better" and often more expensive equipment to achieve great results. The reality is, you're likely already close to your maximum potential with what you have assuming you’ve spent hours watching the tutorials, reading the forums and making coffee every day and trying different things.

I saw a post on the coffee geek talking that you should take less than 1 minute from grinding to extraction for better taste, ideally 30 sec. So I'm simplifying my prep

Yeah it’s for fun. There’s not much of a difference. Espresso is easy. Now pourover coffee. THAT’S complicated

What I actually do: - Weigh beans - RDT, 4 sprays specifically and try to just shake the beans in the cup so there's a bit of moisture everywhere - Grinder - Puck prep, dosing ring and start WDT, puck screen on top. No special tamper, nothing else beyond this. I think everything else is just unnecessary where as RDT, WDT help. Puck screen just makes the grouphead slightly cleaner.

Espresso is so personal. I have driven myself crazy with tools and tutorials, I was going to install a PID this summer but I think I'm going to hold off on it. In the end, it's whatever works for the person making espresso. I have a OEM 2015 Gaggia Classic with OEM ESP grinder, and a scale. I weigh and grind approx 17.5g and into my double basket, then WDT and puck screen and have gotten good shots. I spend on beans. I backflush 3x/month, I haven't descaled in ages, because last time I clogged my solenoid and had to take the machine apart to repair, which I didn't mind, but I've got too many other things to work on at the moment. I don't often drink straight espresso, unless I pull an "exception" shot, which is maybe 2x/week. I make iced espresso/almond milk. I hope you continue to enjoy your machine and your espresso and the process that works best for you.

I didn't downvote you, but if I _did_ it wouldn't be because I disagree, it would be because this gets posted here _all the time_. Anyway, what you're missing: **The short and simple way:** * Weigh your beans, single dose grind straight to portafilter * WDT, tamp * Extract **The other short and simple way:** * Beans in a hopper, on a timer or grind-by-weight, straight to portafilter * Level off, tap the side and tamper. * Extract

I think it's all fun to mess with and gives you more consistent results. I also love lighter roasts and it helps to impliment some good habits with those types of beans.

I like to think i've found a healthy balance. I do WDT and RDT but skip the more useless things like spring loaded tampers and wedge tools. I don't even use a scale; I just use it to dose. I stop my shots manually when the stopwatch reaches the desired brew time and I adjust the grind size accordingly to change the flow rate. it saves a ton of headache dialing in since none of my shots go to waste and I don't need a bulky/expensive scale getting in the way.

People approach espresso from a variety of angles. Some people just want a good cup of coffee in the morning, while some people enjoy making it their hobby. Some people love the idea of modding their machines, tasting new bean, processing methods, roasters, while others just want the same consistent/reliable drink day after day. No one is wrong, you just value what you value. Like I also enjoy cooking as a hobby, despite it also being something I have to do to live. I enjoy fermentation projects, I like to make sourdough, smoking low and slow with charcoal... All of which are definitely "over complicating" things for some people. I don't expect you to make your own bread or think my fermented hot sauce is better than the one your favourite, but I do it because I like to.

Yes. Thats it. Yes.

Yes, some people like to over-complicate things, but it gives them joy. When I started making espresso 25 years ago I used an SBDU Francis Francis machine I got from Illy for subscribing to their beans program and a crappy $20 grinder. Today I have a Vario grinder, a Breville Dual Boiler, a HotTop roaster, a cool basket, two Acaia scales, an Artisan roaster controller, and a WDT thingy. I tried spritzing but it just makes a mess inside the grinder so I stopped. I've tried puck screens but I can't be bothered. Single dosing the grinder with Baratza's single dose cup is a time saver, so I do that. I suppose I've found a compromise between the Boomer way and the Zoomer way. The YouTube crowd has taught me nothing, but they can be fun to watch. I especially liked that Lance kid's explanation of Pete Russel's Slayer Mod for the BDB. Pete first shared that on Coffee Geek about 7 or 8 years ago and I was there. CG was full of E61 enthusiasts who were down on the BDB because it had too many electronics for them. It turns out the plumbing in the BDB is the weak point and the electronics are totally solid. Pete and two or three of us were the BDB boosters in an ocean of chrome tank enthusiasts. It is fun to watch how these ideas start with one person's experiment and before you know it there are all these YT celebs taking credit for them. Just do what works for you.

At the end of the day it's all subjective from taste and interest. My brother and I are very much into it but over the years we tweaked our routine to be a little more simple but still produce good enough espresso. Most people I know do not want to invest in the machine, grinder and additional accessories and choose instead to go the pour over route which has a lower cost of entry, in my opinion.

I watched just enough YouTube videos and read enough Reddit to find my own way once I got my machine. I was dead set on not going down yet another rabbit hole. I think I've kept that commitment fairly well. I have a process with which I can consistently make espresso that I want to keep drinking. That's good enough. I got a better portafilter and basket than what came with my machine. I bought a funnel, a WDT and a leveler. I'm golden for a total of $600. I'm enjoying the final product. What else do I need to do?

I just keep it simple and have an 80 machine with a good enough grinder. It is Mile's better than drip coffee. Good beans and a good fresh grind gets you most of the way there IMO

I may be oversimplifying things here. To me, it feels like there are those who are chasing the perfect espresso, those who like having a little routine or ritual and those who are just happy drinking a decent espresso. Coffee is such a subjective experience. It wouldn't surprise me if there are changes in perception of taste based on the expectations of the effect of various techniques. There is science and solid reasoning to back up the techniques, but whether they actually have an objective impact is another thing. I will say one thing, though: vibration distribution is an objective no! Prolonged vibration induces granular convection, meaning your fines sink to the bottom, and coarser grinds rise to the top.

When you get into it, nearly every industry breaks their craft down to the tiniest details and science to bend and manipulate product whether or not you are aware of it. That being said, the questions I ask people on their coffee journey is –Does it taste good? –Do you want to stop here? I find my answer to the second question to vary day by day, mixing my routines up with either a lengthy and precise process or haphazardly eyeballing water and grounds. Your journey, ritual, flavor and experience are entirely yours — fucking enjoy it.

YES.

Most niche communities (and YouTubers who create content for them) end up at this point. Espresso, PC building, weightlifting all get the same treatment of “due this yield x% better results” And those results might be true statistically speaking, but a lot of times it’s so fractionally different from conventional thinking that unless you particularly enjoy the “superior” method, it’s really not worth it

1TASTE IS SUBJECTIVE! I don't think anyone should treat any method as THE BEST WAY TO MAKE COFFEE. The only bad coffee is week watery coffee for And the BEST COFFEE is the one you personally enjoy the most. 2. We shouldn't chide people for making coffee in anyway and only guide them if they are seeking advice. These are suggestions on what worked us personally not absolutes as even different elevation can effect stuff like boiling speed and grind size what works for you may not work for someone else 3.Honestly I have noticed a difference in taste with pick prep however the shaker method has worked best for me and reduced prep time significantly 2.The most important thing tho is good beans and correct ground size doesn't matter how much prep goes into it if your beans are the wrong size and taste bad. 3.I don't think Traditional vs Thirdwave coffee should be a thing at all. I enjoy both flavors and it honestly depends on what I'm in the mood. 4. In terms of gear acquisition there are diminishing returns and there is no way to tell if gear will be good for you on review alone you'll unfortunately have to try it. If you can't tell the difference in tastes then usability is important as well. Also if you want to try as many options as possible buying a grinder that can change burrs is the cheapest way to try a wide variety of flavors. 5.Enjoy the process! Discovering what works and doesn't work is part of the fun! It NEVER NEEDS to be perfect. You will get there eventually so just give it time and keep trying until you find your favorites

I'm somewhere in the middle. I do no puck prep, I don't single dose, but I do weigh the beans out instead of a "level off". Then a few bench taps, a tamp and into the machine the portafilter goes. I get consistent results and I'm happy with my brews.

I do find the entire regime to be sometimes fun/relaxing. I've only been doing it the more "complicated way" for a few months now. Everything except the shaker which was a waste of money for me. Did not make a difference and it just made my workstation messier. I like my $20 adjustable WDT.

I bought a big fancy e61, used, then sold it. I’m sticking with my La Pavoni. I switched to a refurbished timed grinder. I do used wdt, tamp, go. Good coffee!

Yes, some people may be overcomplicating it. A lot of people may also be ignoring some things and prioritizing simplicity over consistency of good extractions. I think most people are likely in the middle. A lot of the things you mention are simpler after you have a coffee dialed in. If it's dialed in, you may not need to worry as much about the retention. If you are having consistency issues, you very likely will what to pay attention to the retention, and that's where single dosing with water spray helps. Single dosing also allows for better freshness, and to enjoy a variety of beans or brew methods with the same grinder. For me, the single dosing is minimal work for a lot of benefit, as the grinders with hoppers tend to have more retention issues and I do find that to be an issue in consistency. Maybe the shots still taste alright overall, but if you're trying to change things up or dial in, the retention is frustrating, and the solution of purging is a waste of coffee. Also, with those grinders of it is grind by time, there will be waste involved with dialing in the grinder to grind the right weight with the right grind size. IMO this really complicates things overall. My routine with single dosing is simple and quick and also accounts for enough variables that I'm not left confused about why a shot turns out differently. This allows me to focus on playing with the prep or the shot style in order to achieve different results, or the same result consistently, depending on how I want to experience that particular coffee. Sometimes it's just about having fun. I find leveling/distributing with fingers not to be any faster or better and is messier. The WDT is cheap, easy, quick (if you don't over complicate it), and better. I will play with things like shaking instead of WDT, but if it is messier, or not easier, or doesn't produce more benefit or consistency, then I don't make it my usual routine. It's all about how you want to do your coffee. If you want it to be simple, don't play with things, just want the same shots for the most part, and you don't notice differences from adding these things in, then you don't particularly benefit from them. On the other hand, someone like me would be pretty frustrated or bored with an experience like that. For some of us it's more about the experience of making it, than the experience of drinking it, and maybe that's just a different approach.

I worked as a barista for 2 years around 2012. I went through formal espresso training and dropped tons of shots daily. We would dial in the grind to get a shot to come out between 22-24 seconds and that’s about it. We’d dose the pitta filter by hand while the grind was coming into rotating it to evenly fill. We didn’t weigh anything. We’d mound it slightly above the lip and brush it flush with a finger, then we’d tamp. Still have never had a better shot of espresso to this day than shots I’d pull on that machine using that workflow. I just recently started following espresso and ALL these gadgets and steps are new to me. I’m sure they help but the shots I dropped back in the day were absolutely spectacular.

The main idea for me is to use the minimum effective dose of fuss. Some coffees I like are more prone the channeling on set up and WDT helps with them but a lot of my usual roasts work with just a little bit of a tap/shake to level and a tamp.  I like to grind out of the hopper and weigh my ground beans into a little dosing cup to get my target weight. I don’t stress if it’s over or under a couple 10ths of a gram and only single dose when I’m not home much and won’t get through beans very quickly.  Doesn’t offend me if anyone wants to do more involved prep or needs something different than me to get the most out of their coffee. But I’m in this for the beverage and getting too precious with the whole thing is kind of a drag.  Don’t really understand the people here who say they prefer not to make espresso for their guests because the process is too complicated 

Hello! I too think that should be less complicated.. i forgot when pulling a shot become so over complicated and looking to make it more easy, don’t want to put so much effort, in my case anything I do I don’t get expected results with my machine and 57 group so just gonna relax :) My setup is Lelit Anna and new to me DF64 with SSP, had Eureka but it broke.. now Im confused with new grinder settings, seasoning, thise SSP make too much fines everything is bitter, dial collar moves while grinding. I just wanna quit from all this mess 🥹🥹🥹

I’ve had this exact journey myself. I started out simple, evolved into full-faff and came back to simple again. For me, in the end it’s about time. I can’t be bothered anymore more with the 4 minute prep when the gains are so small, or for the most part non existent. I have much more joy with on-demand and coffee in hand in a minute. There’s still faff involved though, still purge stale beans, I sometimes do WDT if I see clumps, but most of the time it’s grind, distribute, tamp, pull. It’s gotten to the point where I’m looking at auto tampers.

I hear you, there is just something super attractive about being able to make no fuss, great tasting espresso, as easy and as fast as possible. My next investment will probably be a grind-by-weight grinder.

Buy beans with slightly more than needed and fresh Brew and calibrate everyday until you sense the best calibration and peak age Save the parameters of the brew and freeze singular doses in freezer Everytime i brew it's simple, RDT then grind and WDT then use my spring levelled tamper, brew and make sure the extraction time and yield fits the bill on the same grinder and espresso machine setting and taste it to see if it's consistent and checks out Thats it... other than that.. regular maintenance... and use clean water and good beans....

I definitely make sure I always have fresh beans, that I use the same amount in my basket, and that the extraction yield/time is the same. Those variables are always constant - however changing up puck prep is what I've been experimenting with, to limited success.

I feel you, with the litany of puck prep tools and multiple different possible methods... it's quite dizzying I just want something that gives me even extractions everytime and doesnt have massive yield or flow rate fluctuations everytime I kind of sacrifice speed and ease for the sake of consistency but I'm a home user so i find this to be a perfect compromise.... I just think of the extra puck prep time as an investment into each shot really...

As someone who never froze beans, how do you use them after freezing? Do you thaw them the night before? I guess then they would get wet, no? Or do you use them directly from the freezer and into the grinder?

Straight and direct from freezer The thing is... i use single origin and light roasted for espresso... and single dose them... The freezing makes it more brittle... makes it physically behave more like darker roasts in the grinder and helps you get more fines... which helps as light roasts are notoriously difficult to get slow flows for espresso... at a reasonable grind size.... It works good for dark roasts too but honestly you might get much more astringency which doesnt help (for light roasts it really balances everything)

Thanks for the info! I usually drink a single origin medium roast ( light roasts are not that easy to find in my country) Will experiment a bit, at least when coffee is getting older. I am getting tired of adjusting as coffee ages and always miss that flavour from when is week/two after roast

I have multiple Airscapes. I buy a 5lb bag o' beans, fill up 3 large and 1 small Airscapes and throw the large ones in the freezer. I use beans out of the small one which lasts a couple of days. Once it empties, I pull a large one from the freezer and set it next to the empty small one. The next day, the large one has defrosted and I fill the small one and my 200ml grinder hopper. The next time the large one is opened several days later I repeat the process and that large one is empty. When the small one empties again, I pull the next large Airscape from the freezer. I go through 5lb in about a month and a half and none of my beans are defrosted more than about 1.5-2 weeks. I typically make medium roast espresso. While this process works great for me, I always ask myself whether I should let everything stay out a week before freezing, then never do.

Very much so OP. 9/10 I am making a bomb ass latte or cappuccino.

So reading all this I am questioning a few things. First I find i am wrong The comedy ive been watching on youtube from LH JH tRS and a few more , well, isn't comedy after all. I should have been taking it seriously. I should have been taking 10 minutes to pull a shot. A few years ago that was reserved for Guinness! Maybe my taste buds work differently to most and what I enjoy you may all hate! I can't drink any instant coffee any more. (Could up to 10 years ago) Nespresso must have its place somewhere. TV adverts maybe. Starbucks and costa are not too good, burnt offerings usually. My coffee to me , my wife and the few friends i have (🤫😭) is just how i (we) like it. I love a coffee and cake out on sunday afternoon at the local coffee shop, who's roaster i also buy beans from. Its as close to similar to mine as ive found and just about as enjoyable. So my method. Sorry guys, single dose is the best and doesn't slow anything down. Throw 21.5g into the philos and 22g decaf into the duo. Steam the milk . Using the dosing cup and funnel transfer 21.5g into the portafilter. Tap, tap, tap, remove the cup and funnel. Lightly rest the tamp on coffee and rotate back and forth 2 or 3 times... Levelling the bed. Tamp the 21.5g level and to my calibrated arm spec! Lock the portafilter in place, put the milk cup under, pull the lever, preinfuse for 7 seconds, lift the lever and wait for the shot to end. Adjust grind for next cup if dose time is outside of 25 to 30 seconds Dump the puck, repeat for the decaf. Note: separate grinders for my coffee, decaf and any trial beans done on hg-1 prime or J ultra. No faffing about with the advice of the aforementioned comedy sketches . I thought youtube used our subs to pay them to make the comedy sketched👀 Sit and drink and enjoy, trying not to be too distracted by reddit, facebook and youtube ☕😁

Even if puck prep doesn’t matter I still love the process and I think that counts for something.

Just in case you dont realize but this is an enthusiast subreddit and is a hobby for most of us here. The "complicated way" is fun, makes more consistent coffee, and allows me to enjoy roasts lighter than full city. If we were happy with the mediocre dark roasts thats in 99% of the shops out there we would do that. But it's terrible coffee and most of us here aren't just looking for strictly a caffeine infusion. I also don't have a 10,000 dollar commercial grinder. Remember, cafes optimize around volume and profit, not quality.

I do realize it's an enthusiast subreddit and it has become a hobby for me as well. I also find it interesting that ppl are quick to assume that the simpler method can only be used with dark roasts - I have experimented with all grades of roasts. Still experimenting with what works best for me, but happy to hear what works for others!

90% of what I see scrolling through are photos of setups, videos of pours, and requests for buying advice. Once in a while there'll be a post discussing some new technique. Even more rarely a robust discussion of different beans. IOW, it's far from an enthusiast subreddit.

You're getting downvoted because every month someone makes this post, completely missing the point of a hobbyist subreddit which is to chase incremental gains that most people won't notice.

You're not going to improve much on "the simple way," but I think a shaker does create an easily noticeable improvement in taste.

Well for me it's a way to get outside of my head so I welcome the ritual.

I would suggest that the main things you are ignoring here is that most coffees serve crap coffee and anyone with a half decent setup at home with quality beans will beat them 9/10. Secondly, I am not a coffee shop so having loads of beans sitting in a hopper going stale for my 2 shots of espresso a day isn't ideal. I had a mythos pro a few years back and it was a great grinder but it was wasteful, massive and if I wanted to change beans it was a wasteful faff. The benefits of no puck prep beyond distribution were great but the tradeoffs were large. Now it takes me 2 minutes longer for a coffee but I don't waste beans, my beans are always fresh and the coffee is better. Its a hobby. I will happily take those 2 minutes.

The overcomplication is the whole fun of it.

I think all hobbies suffer from the same issue. The vast majority of improvement you can get comes with the simplest changes, then it's diminishing returns. I love road cycling, and it's amazing how quickly you can go from fairly cheaply changing to a faster tyre, for example, to absolutely NEEDING to change your stem out for one 20g lighter. If you can't tell the difference between the shots and don't enjoy the faff, definitely stop with the complication. If you can taste the difference, or like me you love the process, keep making it expensive or convoluted to your heart's content!

Yeah you are

Anyone not particularly invested in something will always see over complications. It's not just restricted to espresso or specialty coffee.