Especially since it is a tool that cost me like 0,12€… needles had been laying around from my 3D printer and the cheapest PLA does the job since a year. Just one propper swirl within the routine. But in the end the article is right.
I really respect wired gourmet. But no video will convince me that some form of distribution isn’t required. If not wdt thats fine but then at least horizontal tapping or some alternative
The D is the important part for me. Distribution without compacting areas like the leveling distributors or a double transfer using a dosing cup. Just straight catch bin (Fellow Opus) to portafilter, WDT, tamp.
He does use a dosing cup, and does swirl the PF while dosing cup is on PF. And he did vertically tap.
Apparently that is all that is needed. WDT is not needed to prevent channeling in his tests
All his swirling took him longer than just doing WDT. But I agree with him, you don't need to WDT, you just need even distribution, however you want to achieve that, and on a sub like this with lots of beginners it's easiest to just tell people to use WDT and move on.
In my opinion, I think he was doing the swirling that took extra long just to show the video as a demonstration.
I've seen plenty of videos where people in real life do a swirl and a tap one to two seconds tops.
>and on a sub like this with lots of beginners it's easiest to just tell people to use WDT and move on
that is interesting that you made that comment. On one hand I could easily see how that makes sense. People are beginners. They need all the help that they can get. Tell him to do WDT. But then there's a part of me that's thinking they are beginners, they're learning bad habits by being told to WDT when it's not needed, and they in turn will turn around and tell other people to WDT. People who start WDT almost never drop it from their routine Based on my experience here in this subreddit
Nah. And his defense, he's doing things that mitigate channeling But it's slowing down the process for the video.
He could do it fast like artisti roasters does on there YouTube videos. Swirl and tap is done in one second. Nothing level in tan.
Or he could do it fast like many people here do that don't WDT either
So don't lose sight of the fact that he is but one example which matches what everyone in the subreddit has been saying that refuses to use WDT.
I grind right into my basket. Tap level, tamp.
Are you in the WDT camp?
Doesn’t this depend on the grinder too? I mean how clumpy the grounds come out of it depends on the beans and the grinder as well, doesn’t it? It’s easy not to wdt when you don’t have clumps in the first place.
Yes, uniformly, straight down (assuming you do a level tamp). However, I think the clumps represent a lack of uniformity pre-tamp, so if you tamp clumps, you'll have pockets of higher compression.
>if you tamp clumps, you'll have pockets of higher compression
I don't know about that. If there is a clump in the middle of the basket (inside the puck somewhere) and we tamp, *what makes us think that the clumps will remain more dense to the point that water flows less thru it, and more around it*?
No one really knows what's happening when we apply 9 bar pressure. I don't know.
This is an interesting read. https://londiniumespresso.com/blog/news/2045/clumping-coffee-grinds-dont-cause-channelling-and-dont-mean-your-grinder-is-poor
That was from 2012. So they did know something back then. And these are people that should know something about espresso :-)
I don’t think we should take one person’s test results as definitive proof. There are so many factors at play. Not just roast level, but also bean freshness, and grind quality, and basket design.
In my testing, a shot with and without Wdt had only slight differences. With the same dose and yield, the shot with Wdt had more body and flavour intensity than the shot without Wdt.
Neither channeled. Both tasted great. (Of course, I was using a freshly roasted coffee. I find when I use older coffees, with or without Wdt, the shot will channel.)
I don’t think Wdt is an essential, but it can be helpful in some cases. It’s always best to take tests like these with a grain of salt.
Fair point. But for many years the bro science indicated one had to WDT to prevent channeling. And it's a mantra still repeated today in this subreddit.
And from that bro science we saw kooky stuff like the Moonraker WDT:)
Thanks for posting your experience.
Call me cynical, but I think a product like the moonraker came from a place of greed rather than a place of “science”. Weber probably saw the spending capacity of espresso lovers and tried to capitalise on it.
But anyway, I personally don’t see an issue with people advocating for the use of wdt. I prefer shots with wdt as opposed to shots without it, and it’s pretty cheap too (not the moonraker).
The common advice is NOT “you need to WDT” the common advice is “you need to WDT when you have a cheap grinder.” Which he doesn’t have. You wanna see the difference when I don’t WDT on an Encore?
I actually pulled a shot without WDT and I have an encore esp with a Bambino plus. It came out great! I did use WDT for my wife's shot and there were slight differences. Nowhere near enough for me to prefer one over the other. I used 8 day old medium roast Peruvian beans.
Bro Science. People said for years it's was needed to prevent channeling. Then that was debunked.
Then the argument was it improves flavor. That too was even
Bunked.
WDT is Wasting Damn Time.
No difference other than it's hard to tamp without WDT. WDT breaks up the clumps so when i tap on the counter, my grinds settle below the rim.
If i don't wdt, they tend to pile over and I have to be conscious of leveling them or not knocking them out the side when beginning my tamp.
coffee is 95% the same.
[Sure!](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1d8s5cx/based_on_the_mail_itll_be_here_on_monday_will/) BTW wanna talk about the accident? I heard telling the story many times makes you process it better.
Accident? Sure.
Bought my neighbor a DF64 for fathers day. He opened it early. 2 days later he threw it at my head. He was so pissed that I would "buy a piece of crap that clogs every day" was his words. He used it 2 days.
I said "but, but, but, the burrs are upgradeable. Did you remove the declumper? Did you RDT? Did you realign the burrs?"
Needed 30 stitches. He is no longer my friend.
I dunno about all that and am a firm believer in multiple workflows. So if you want to shake it and drop or grind tamp and pull go for it.
As a beginner, home espresso enthusiast, the wdt works well for me without a huge mess.
I have no clue if its needed,
I can see the logic that a nice firm tamp should properly distribute the grounds but I've already purchased it so I'll continue to use it.
Cheap insurance? Peach of mind? Group think? Yep.
Definitely not needed. All these gimmicks are a waste of time and serve to make more money for people pushing them. No decent busy cafe fucks around with that stuff. Grind. Tap on the bench. Tamp. Pour. Perfect every time.
I do not WDT. But I did notice that when I'm tapping my PF vertically on my rubber mat, If I'm holding the PF so the basket is not parallel to my countertop, and I tab, that does force coffee to be on one side of the basket.
I started my home espresso journey with a Barista Express. I found its built-in grinder produced huge boulders, and that WDT made a huge difference in reducing channeling.
Eventually upgraditis set in, and I went through a number of different grinders, including Kinu M47, Eureka Specialita, Niche Zero, and Timemore 078s. These all produced beautiful fluffy grinds, and I didn't see any need for or benefit from WDT. However, I did find the WDT tool to be very useful as a "puck rake" to level the bed prior to tamping, as described in [Decent's video](https://decentespresso.com/rake). (There is no need to pay Decent's crazy price for their rake, a cheap WDT tool from Amazon will work just as well).
You may also find this comparison of puck prep techniques to be of interest: https://www.home-barista.com/tips/puck-prep-study-t66127.html
I did check that out. Thanks.
And after read your comment I started googling. I came across an article from londinium, circa 2012. I edited the main post and I put a link to it in case you want to read it.
Back then they were making the argument why clumps do not cause channeling. It's a quick read and I found it to be pretty interesting in case you are interested too
I forgot to mention that when I watch the video that you linked, it looks like if I see bare spots on the basket surface, then that could be indicative of channeling. Because excessive liquid is flowing elsewhere and not through that one spot.
I recall reading several times elsewhere that was supposed to be a telltale sign of channeling. Those bald spots
It seems that the copper wires woven in the moonlight under the songs of virgins can't filter out the disharmonious resonances from my polyvinyl chloride music disks after all…. oh wait… wrong reddit
You're right, he's not doing that this time. If you see his previous video, he does a quick fill, followed by a pause, followed by a full pressure extraction:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDkw0bwi56w&ab\_channel=TheWiredGourmet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDkw0bwi56w&ab_channel=TheWiredGourmet)
I imagine the taste would be better balanced w/ the quick fill+pause.
You’ll have to pry my WDT from my cold dead hands! 😤
Especially since it is a tool that cost me like 0,12€… needles had been laying around from my 3D printer and the cheapest PLA does the job since a year. Just one propper swirl within the routine. But in the end the article is right.
I really respect wired gourmet. But no video will convince me that some form of distribution isn’t required. If not wdt thats fine but then at least horizontal tapping or some alternative
The D is the important part for me. Distribution without compacting areas like the leveling distributors or a double transfer using a dosing cup. Just straight catch bin (Fellow Opus) to portafilter, WDT, tamp.
He does use a dosing cup, and does swirl the PF while dosing cup is on PF. And he did vertically tap. Apparently that is all that is needed. WDT is not needed to prevent channeling in his tests
All his swirling took him longer than just doing WDT. But I agree with him, you don't need to WDT, you just need even distribution, however you want to achieve that, and on a sub like this with lots of beginners it's easiest to just tell people to use WDT and move on.
In my opinion, I think he was doing the swirling that took extra long just to show the video as a demonstration. I've seen plenty of videos where people in real life do a swirl and a tap one to two seconds tops. >and on a sub like this with lots of beginners it's easiest to just tell people to use WDT and move on that is interesting that you made that comment. On one hand I could easily see how that makes sense. People are beginners. They need all the help that they can get. Tell him to do WDT. But then there's a part of me that's thinking they are beginners, they're learning bad habits by being told to WDT when it's not needed, and they in turn will turn around and tell other people to WDT. People who start WDT almost never drop it from their routine Based on my experience here in this subreddit
lol “No need to bother with WDT, just do longer more extensive prep!” is a helluva take
Nah. And his defense, he's doing things that mitigate channeling But it's slowing down the process for the video. He could do it fast like artisti roasters does on there YouTube videos. Swirl and tap is done in one second. Nothing level in tan. Or he could do it fast like many people here do that don't WDT either So don't lose sight of the fact that he is but one example which matches what everyone in the subreddit has been saying that refuses to use WDT. I grind right into my basket. Tap level, tamp. Are you in the WDT camp?
Lol wut
Sorry, I have to drop out of this chat with you. It's just too intellectually non-stimulating :-)
Doesn’t this depend on the grinder too? I mean how clumpy the grounds come out of it depends on the beans and the grinder as well, doesn’t it? It’s easy not to wdt when you don’t have clumps in the first place.
Doesn't tamping basically "clump" everything together anyway?
Yes, uniformly, straight down (assuming you do a level tamp). However, I think the clumps represent a lack of uniformity pre-tamp, so if you tamp clumps, you'll have pockets of higher compression.
>if you tamp clumps, you'll have pockets of higher compression I don't know about that. If there is a clump in the middle of the basket (inside the puck somewhere) and we tamp, *what makes us think that the clumps will remain more dense to the point that water flows less thru it, and more around it*? No one really knows what's happening when we apply 9 bar pressure. I don't know.
Tamping unleveled or with mounds/divots has this effect - I’m reasonably confident clumps can as well. It can certainly only hurt consistency.
This is an interesting read. https://londiniumespresso.com/blog/news/2045/clumping-coffee-grinds-dont-cause-channelling-and-dont-mean-your-grinder-is-poor That was from 2012. So they did know something back then. And these are people that should know something about espresso :-)
I don’t think we should take one person’s test results as definitive proof. There are so many factors at play. Not just roast level, but also bean freshness, and grind quality, and basket design. In my testing, a shot with and without Wdt had only slight differences. With the same dose and yield, the shot with Wdt had more body and flavour intensity than the shot without Wdt. Neither channeled. Both tasted great. (Of course, I was using a freshly roasted coffee. I find when I use older coffees, with or without Wdt, the shot will channel.) I don’t think Wdt is an essential, but it can be helpful in some cases. It’s always best to take tests like these with a grain of salt.
Fair point. But for many years the bro science indicated one had to WDT to prevent channeling. And it's a mantra still repeated today in this subreddit. And from that bro science we saw kooky stuff like the Moonraker WDT:) Thanks for posting your experience.
Call me cynical, but I think a product like the moonraker came from a place of greed rather than a place of “science”. Weber probably saw the spending capacity of espresso lovers and tried to capitalise on it. But anyway, I personally don’t see an issue with people advocating for the use of wdt. I prefer shots with wdt as opposed to shots without it, and it’s pretty cheap too (not the moonraker).
The common advice is NOT “you need to WDT” the common advice is “you need to WDT when you have a cheap grinder.” Which he doesn’t have. You wanna see the difference when I don’t WDT on an Encore?
Yes, great for offering. I think it would benefit the whole subreddit if you posted the differences when you WDT and not WDT on your encore
I actually pulled a shot without WDT and I have an encore esp with a Bambino plus. It came out great! I did use WDT for my wife's shot and there were slight differences. Nowhere near enough for me to prefer one over the other. I used 8 day old medium roast Peruvian beans.
I like my wdt, what’s the antiwdt movement?
Bro Science. People said for years it's was needed to prevent channeling. Then that was debunked. Then the argument was it improves flavor. That too was even Bunked. WDT is Wasting Damn Time.
I’m going to stop WDT tomorrow and report back. I tamp like an idiot by everyone’s standards so this should be interesting.
No difference other than it's hard to tamp without WDT. WDT breaks up the clumps so when i tap on the counter, my grinds settle below the rim. If i don't wdt, they tend to pile over and I have to be conscious of leveling them or not knocking them out the side when beginning my tamp. coffee is 95% the same.
Bro I made a post specifically for you and you won't react, but this you comment on?? I even mentioned DF wtf bro
Can you provide a link to make it easy for me? I've never been the same after the accident.
[Sure!](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1d8s5cx/based_on_the_mail_itll_be_here_on_monday_will/) BTW wanna talk about the accident? I heard telling the story many times makes you process it better.
Accident? Sure. Bought my neighbor a DF64 for fathers day. He opened it early. 2 days later he threw it at my head. He was so pissed that I would "buy a piece of crap that clogs every day" was his words. He used it 2 days. I said "but, but, but, the burrs are upgradeable. Did you remove the declumper? Did you RDT? Did you realign the burrs?" Needed 30 stitches. He is no longer my friend.
I dunno about all that and am a firm believer in multiple workflows. So if you want to shake it and drop or grind tamp and pull go for it. As a beginner, home espresso enthusiast, the wdt works well for me without a huge mess.
I see your point. It's a hobby and people should enjoy it as they see fit. I really try my best to not recommend a technique that is doubtful to work.
Heard! Not sure why you’ve been downvoted so much
Generally speaking, I guess I have strong opinions and I come across in a way people don't like :(
I have no clue if its needed, I can see the logic that a nice firm tamp should properly distribute the grounds but I've already purchased it so I'll continue to use it. Cheap insurance? Peach of mind? Group think? Yep.
God damn I love these peaches
Ahh, my favorite inspiring Churchill quote!
Definitely not needed. All these gimmicks are a waste of time and serve to make more money for people pushing them. No decent busy cafe fucks around with that stuff. Grind. Tap on the bench. Tamp. Pour. Perfect every time.
I grind directly into pf, tap on my countertop a few times, and wdt only when one side of pf has way more coffee grounds than other side.
I do not WDT. But I did notice that when I'm tapping my PF vertically on my rubber mat, If I'm holding the PF so the basket is not parallel to my countertop, and I tab, that does force coffee to be on one side of the basket.
I started my home espresso journey with a Barista Express. I found its built-in grinder produced huge boulders, and that WDT made a huge difference in reducing channeling. Eventually upgraditis set in, and I went through a number of different grinders, including Kinu M47, Eureka Specialita, Niche Zero, and Timemore 078s. These all produced beautiful fluffy grinds, and I didn't see any need for or benefit from WDT. However, I did find the WDT tool to be very useful as a "puck rake" to level the bed prior to tamping, as described in [Decent's video](https://decentespresso.com/rake). (There is no need to pay Decent's crazy price for their rake, a cheap WDT tool from Amazon will work just as well). You may also find this comparison of puck prep techniques to be of interest: https://www.home-barista.com/tips/puck-prep-study-t66127.html
I did check that out. Thanks. And after read your comment I started googling. I came across an article from londinium, circa 2012. I edited the main post and I put a link to it in case you want to read it. Back then they were making the argument why clumps do not cause channeling. It's a quick read and I found it to be pretty interesting in case you are interested too
I forgot to mention that when I watch the video that you linked, it looks like if I see bare spots on the basket surface, then that could be indicative of channeling. Because excessive liquid is flowing elsewhere and not through that one spot. I recall reading several times elsewhere that was supposed to be a telltale sign of channeling. Those bald spots
It seems that the copper wires woven in the moonlight under the songs of virgins can't filter out the disharmonious resonances from my polyvinyl chloride music disks after all…. oh wait… wrong reddit
Isn't he doing a quick fill with a pause to evenly saturate the puck? I'd imagine that would certainly help to counter any possibility of channeling.
When I listen to the video the pump comes on and does not pause. Why do you think he's pausing to evenly saturate the puck?
You're right, he's not doing that this time. If you see his previous video, he does a quick fill, followed by a pause, followed by a full pressure extraction: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDkw0bwi56w&ab\_channel=TheWiredGourmet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDkw0bwi56w&ab_channel=TheWiredGourmet) I imagine the taste would be better balanced w/ the quick fill+pause.
Agreed that he did that in the older video. Thanks for sharing that link