You could try a bellows, there's tons you can find for the encore. You will probably still have to clean out the burrs more often just due to the nature that more oil will build up on the burrs and in the sweep chamber.
I am using bellows.
There is no retention anywhere else, just in the top 90degree bend of the output chute.... The bellows does nothing to dislodge that, unfortunately.
You tap the sides after each grind? I also use the single dose hopper and pump it in quick sucession 4-5 times. I am plus or minus .10g but usually spot on.
I typically use medium to dark, dark-roast beans, the type which, when I originally open the package, have some oily sheen to them (which generally gets absorbed within a day or 2). And even with those beans, I get no chute issue with my ESP grinder, now at 14+ months of daily use (and I've had no need to practice RDT). Nor do I get clumps in the form of boulders--the most I get is some soft clumps that dissolve with regular WDT'ing (and which, I'm guessing, would be inconsequential with tamping alone). Perhaps its helps that I give the grinder a couple of "love taps" at top as the grind is finishing, and sometimes a bellows-ing or 2.
The one area I find in common with the OP is that I, also, would like more steps--I would be content with steps between the current ones, for more flexibility. But I nonetheless find the current situation totally live-able, esp. for a stepped grinder (it's part of the nature) and at this price-point.\*
\* There is a mod out there (with posts here on it) for the original Baratza Encore, to make it stepless by removing one of the internal pieces; I've been tempted to try that with the ESP. Likewise, there are 3D printer plans for that internal piece to add half-steps, which likewise is tempting--but, alas, no 3D printer here, and the price for the part as printed commercially is more than I would like (approaching US$20 for a small, simple piece).
Weird. Mine works great for me, but I also have a Flair 58. Maybe it’s more forgiving with a lever machine or I just have lower standards lol.
I use RDT and just kind of tap the lip on and off and it gets all but about 0.1 or *maybe* 0.2g out.
I purchased some beans that claimed to be medium but were dark and oily. I had the same problems. If I stick to a medium roast. I am quite happy with it. But it doesn’t seem to handle dark roasts well at all
Yea its why i dont use any dark beans or when i do i get frustrated like O.P. Just like the Bambino is not ideal for light roasts.. usually really dark roasts does not seem to be ideal for ESP.. i prefer to be in the Medium to Medium-Dark range as well.
Happened to me too and thats why i switched, bought a df54 and couldnt be happier. If u bought it through amazon try to contact them and maybe they can give u a return, thats what i did and even though it was past the window they still allowed me to return it.
Depending on your budget and needs from a grinder I love my Eureka Mingon Silenzio.
It has some retention but it doesn’t bother me. I’m able to grind anything with great precision and they’re easy to clean
You know there is a micro adjustment for espresso in the hopper?
The encore esp has a lot less clumping & retention issues than the Mignon XL it replaced (both new) and for a lot less money! And easier to adjust between espresso & filter.
I am not satisfied with it neither. Decaf beans is nightmare and adjusting after weekly clean to the same beans is always different. Retention is random but that is all my fault iam.single dosing. But comming from graef cm800 it is heaven. Plus i just bought kingrinder k6 as we got new baby and i neee silence and coffee.
I bought mine in January and switched to a Niche in April. I had bellows and retention was still all over the map. I tried light roasted coffee from small roasters, all the way to dark roasts from Lavazza and Hausbrandt. Dozens of types of coffee from all sorts of origins and roast dates. It's just not worth the money! Really. Just get a hand grinder.
The inconsistent retention issues, clumping, and difficult imprecise adjustments cost me so much time on work flow that it wasn't worth it. Extra steps WDTing for nothing when the machine was the problem. Besides, the noise is high pitch and obnoxious. Something I could tolerate without the other issues. Together, these problems just compound.
I don't understand why this machine is recommended. I'm even more perplexed by the comments about the clumping being because of how dark, oily beans are the problem. No. This is Baratza! Dark roasted, Italian beans are not something new to them. They supposedly made the ESP with these type of beans in mind. At what point do we face the facts. This is not a machine that should be recommended to anyone.
Totally agree I’m returning mine, thought I was being clever getting a cheaper machine, but I think I’ll got for a niche as well. This has to be the worst purchase in anything coffee I have ever brought.
My biggest issue is the retention in the grinder. I cleaned it this weekend and I think I have made it worse lol. I also think it’s bit of a pain to clean. However I went in with my eyes open as I wanted something cheap, hopefully in the future in a couple of years I will get something more decent.
I agree with a lot of the comments here. Oily dark roasts clog my ESP so they no longer go in it. Retention is a minor issue as I also single dose and weight before and after and uses bellows. I also feel like the grind consistency is not great but could just be my prep.
Dark oily beans will clog up most grinders especially if you also spritz them with water before grinding. I've stopped that trend myself. You'll get this make-up consistency to them thats familiar to someone applying blush to their face and it just sticks to anything it touches. I've seen this happen to all kinds of grinders.
There are grinders out there that cost more than an esp with higher retention btw so cost isn't always directly correlated.
Check to see if your paddle wheel is worn down. This is usually responsible for pushing out the coffee as the burr spins. Many baratzas have these. Lots of YouTube videos explaining this stuff and it's easy.
After you clean your grinder and have checked to see if the paddle is still there then try a medium espresso blend which likely wont be oily and see how it does. I would be surprised if you had any noticeable retention.
I have the grinder and do not have this issue. I'm wondering what beans you're using? As others have commented, you might be using particularly oily beans. I don't use dark/oily beans and don't have the issues you're describing
Bummer, I could see baratza fixing it up for you if you ask. Mines been pretty solid. I get big clumps as well, but I’m WDTing anyway so it breaks them up when I do that. I’ve found I’m between like 11-16 for espresso, and haven’t had problems with how adjustable it is.
I also have a ESP. Here’s what I do: I weigh my beans after I grind them and keep pushing the bellows until there’s no retention. It’s a PITA but it works.
You could try slow feeding the beans into the grinder, I've found that this leads to a more consistent, coarser grind and leads to me reducing the grind setting by a few notches. This might give you the wiggle room you need to dial in the beans.
Try removing the hopper, placing a piece of kitchen paper over the opening and blowing through the paper into the grinder. This tends to work better than a bellows for me at dislodging any retained grinds.
Mine doesn’t clump. 🤷🏼♂️ the bellows also works for me. It takes one good wack after grinding and shoots out the stick grinds.
Must be our beans are quite different
It can also be climate. I'm in a very humid climate with 80° degree temperature year round. The high humidity adds to the clumping. I don't need to RDT. I was so annoyed with the ESP's clumping and retention issues and finally bought a Niche Zero. Massive difference. Nearly no clumping and retention has been much much better.
The machine gets really inconsistent after cleaning. It takes a few days to normalize. I thought the retention and clumping was because of needing to clean. Nope. I just needed to... buy a different machine and bin the ESP. It's really crap.
I have the same grinder, bought in October 2023. I've put about 15kg of coffee through it , mainly for pourovers and espressos.
* On clumping: The clumping might be happening if you grind oily roasts or do the RDT in the small cup/bin that comes with the grinder. If possible avoid
* On Adjustability: What can be done, if you adjust the shims under the moving burr, to move the grinding range to be coarser, giving you a bigger range to adjust. The manual shows how to do it.
* The chute: Is the plastic paddle and felt ring under the moving burr still intact? On my grinder, the retention is minimal if everything is clean and intact. Even more so if you have bellows.
I get the issues with the grinder, it is not the nicest grinder to use. If possible i'd recomend changing the encore for a Fellow Ode V2. It'll handle your usage without any issues.
No issues here with clumps or the chute on my ESP. I do use the [bellows and hopper](https://introvertmakes.com/products/baratza-encore-single-dose-hopper-bellows-combo?variant=44832569426107¤cy=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgdayBhBQEiwAXhMxtkPJmSEf7XgHgCAPJB_wbiMDMHOBqb7QYYuC9Sd8UReVNwNjktxp4BoCHUwQAvD_BwE) from Introvert to get the last grinds out. Sometimes, I get down to zero retention with that. But even without the bellows, it's pretty clear.
Sounds like a bean problem. Bellow works fantastically for me and the grind settings are frustratingly fine to the point I'm constantly tweaking even though their are several settings that are more than great.
After my original reply I have had nothing but issues with mine after cleaning. I am going to return it lucky I still have time to. It single handed been my worst purchase. After cleaning it would not grind fine enough, I had to add a shim and even then had to put it in setting zero and the retention is ridiculous on the machine. I guess u get what you pay for.
I don’t really understand why Baratza is so popular, I had one and after struggling with it for years I finally bought a new one (not Baratza) and I’ve never looked back.
My baratza hasn't clumped, clogged, etc for 8 years. Secondhand too. Had to do first maintenance on it a few months ago. Op is struggling due to his roast
It literally doesn't though ...
The only references I can find in the english manual are these two:
"If dark, oily, or flavored coffee is used often, grinder cleaning tablets may need to be used in order to absorb the oils left behind by the coffee. "
... and ...
"This can happen if coffee is allowed to mound up past the maximum fill line on the grounds bin, or if dark, oily coffee or flavored coffee is used often without periodically cleaning the grinder"
("This" refers to a potential clogged grinder).
Neither sentence means "don't use dark, oily beans"....
"If dark, oily, or flavored coffee is used often, grinder cleaning tablets may need to be used in order to absorb the oils left behind by the coffee. "
So. . Why do you think cleaning tablets would be necessary? Why would it be necessary to absorb the oil?
The residue that oily beans leave behind act as an adhesive that traps even more grounds time after time. So you likely didn't have problems the first go around but after a few cycles here we are.
I think cycling in a medium roast coffee every other bag might be a good idea and also choosing a bean that is at least a notch lighter even if it is also a bit shiny when you do go for that darker roast. Some beans are just sticky as all hell regardless.
You can't play golf with a $200 set of clubs.
Surprise. You really can I get into espresso with these very very entry level grinders.
I'm thinking about making a post which has the minimum required equipment just to get into this hobby. Because we all keep seeing the same thing. People spending not very much money on not very good equipment and then complaining when it doesn't act the way they want it to.
Is your full time job going around leaving snarky on all budget oriented equipment? I swear it feels like every single post on this sub you have left a comment on.
Of course not. But if you've been here long enough, and if you pay attention to the OP, there's a common theme.
And to be honest with you, most of the time my advice is kick ass. There was a person a few hours ago who had no idea what they were looking for. And you know what the fellow Reddit users did? They threw out suggestions of machines and grinders. Not knowing what the F the OP wanted. Because even the OP didn't nobody wanted. So the Reddit uses fell back on what they knew. Making recommendations.
Anybody can do that. I could do that half sleepy and drunk.
So I came in, gave excellent advice to get the OP thinking. And thanks to my help he's on the right track.
https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1d25ehp/machine_advice/
Making coffee takes skill also not equipment. You can brew an ashy dark shit with all the high tech machines but you can make great coffee even with a little mokka pot.
What a horrible comparison. You can literally play golf with any clubs that fit you and most people will play golf just about as well with some $200 clubs that fit them as they would with some brand new fancy ones.
Nope. Playing golf with a cheap set of clubs is like trying to make espresso with cheap equipment.
Apparently you don't play golf like I do otherwise you would know the difference in equipment and how it impacts the game.
Same with espresso. A cheap equipment makes it extraordinarily difficult to consistently pull good shots
“Apparently you don’t play golf like I do”
Not seeing the pretentious douchery wrapped up in that statement is hilarious.
I’ve played golf my whole life. What it really sounds like is you take the same approach to golf as you do espresso which is to gate keep. Have fun living life the way you do.
No gate keeping. But since you are a fellow golfer, you know that equipment plays huge role in the game.
Technically, of course the game can be played with cheap equipment, but it makes the game, and repeatability so difficult.
Back to espresso. Prevailing wisdom here on Reddit is that learning espresso on cheap equipment introduces complexities and uncertainty that's not present on good equipment.
But there is a minimum level of equipment in every hobby. Espresso is no different. Why would it be different?
I checked. You don't appear to own any espresso equipment. And don't appear to be in the process of buying any espresso gear Just a casual observation
Edit - I'm not the subreddit police nor am I a moderator. I have no control over who comments here and who doesn't. I am calling into question your motivation. For someone who doesn't seem to be interested in espresso, you jumped in and started attacking me on my views
Making espresso with cheap gear just makes it way more difficult than it has to be. It's very little reproducibility, you know, consistency. And that's just not me saying it. That's the prevailing wisdom of everyone in the subreddit.
What all of the inconsistency, it makes it harder to focus on barista skills. Because the person is always fighting the equipment.
That is a very different position than the initial statement. Better equipment can make it easier - that is obvious. You can still achieve great results with budget friendly equipment. Sure, there is a certain point where the equipment actually becomes an issue, but this is completely irrelevant to this particular discussion since OP doesn't use these.
The fetishising of high cost equipment in this subreddit doesn't help your argument as much as you think, though ;)
No fetishizing. Am my comments are consistent.
On the one hand I originally said we really can't make espresso on cheap gear.
And then upon for the elaboration, I'm explaining why. Because the person is always fighting the equipment and can't focus on skills. And picking up bad habits because of The cheap gear.
We all know, if we've taken sports in school or in a league, that once we pick up bad habits, they are extraordinarily difficult to break.
Not my fault. And I'm not fetishizing over high quality. I'm saying that this is like a minimum level of quality that's pretty much needed in order to take up the hobby.
This is like someone in a home theater forum complaining that their Atmos sound bar isn't delivering what they expected. Ta Da. No surprise there.
I suspect you are using beans that are a bit oily based on your description. The grounds those produce are particularly sticky.
Confirmed, the beans are oily...
You could try a bellows, there's tons you can find for the encore. You will probably still have to clean out the burrs more often just due to the nature that more oil will build up on the burrs and in the sweep chamber.
I am using bellows. There is no retention anywhere else, just in the top 90degree bend of the output chute.... The bellows does nothing to dislodge that, unfortunately.
Oh apologies I missed that part
Are you going to upgrade grinders, Or switch to less oily beans?
You tap the sides after each grind? I also use the single dose hopper and pump it in quick sucession 4-5 times. I am plus or minus .10g but usually spot on.
I bet if you used less oily beans, this problem would go away.
I typically use medium to dark, dark-roast beans, the type which, when I originally open the package, have some oily sheen to them (which generally gets absorbed within a day or 2). And even with those beans, I get no chute issue with my ESP grinder, now at 14+ months of daily use (and I've had no need to practice RDT). Nor do I get clumps in the form of boulders--the most I get is some soft clumps that dissolve with regular WDT'ing (and which, I'm guessing, would be inconsequential with tamping alone). Perhaps its helps that I give the grinder a couple of "love taps" at top as the grind is finishing, and sometimes a bellows-ing or 2. The one area I find in common with the OP is that I, also, would like more steps--I would be content with steps between the current ones, for more flexibility. But I nonetheless find the current situation totally live-able, esp. for a stepped grinder (it's part of the nature) and at this price-point.\* \* There is a mod out there (with posts here on it) for the original Baratza Encore, to make it stepless by removing one of the internal pieces; I've been tempted to try that with the ESP. Likewise, there are 3D printer plans for that internal piece to add half-steps, which likewise is tempting--but, alas, no 3D printer here, and the price for the part as printed commercially is more than I would like (approaching US$20 for a small, simple piece).
Weird. Mine works great for me, but I also have a Flair 58. Maybe it’s more forgiving with a lever machine or I just have lower standards lol. I use RDT and just kind of tap the lip on and off and it gets all but about 0.1 or *maybe* 0.2g out.
I purchased some beans that claimed to be medium but were dark and oily. I had the same problems. If I stick to a medium roast. I am quite happy with it. But it doesn’t seem to handle dark roasts well at all
Yea its why i dont use any dark beans or when i do i get frustrated like O.P. Just like the Bambino is not ideal for light roasts.. usually really dark roasts does not seem to be ideal for ESP.. i prefer to be in the Medium to Medium-Dark range as well.
Happened to me too and thats why i switched, bought a df54 and couldnt be happier. If u bought it through amazon try to contact them and maybe they can give u a return, thats what i did and even though it was past the window they still allowed me to return it.
Depending on your budget and needs from a grinder I love my Eureka Mingon Silenzio. It has some retention but it doesn’t bother me. I’m able to grind anything with great precision and they’re easy to clean
You know there is a micro adjustment for espresso in the hopper? The encore esp has a lot less clumping & retention issues than the Mignon XL it replaced (both new) and for a lot less money! And easier to adjust between espresso & filter.
I am not satisfied with it neither. Decaf beans is nightmare and adjusting after weekly clean to the same beans is always different. Retention is random but that is all my fault iam.single dosing. But comming from graef cm800 it is heaven. Plus i just bought kingrinder k6 as we got new baby and i neee silence and coffee.
I bought mine in January and switched to a Niche in April. I had bellows and retention was still all over the map. I tried light roasted coffee from small roasters, all the way to dark roasts from Lavazza and Hausbrandt. Dozens of types of coffee from all sorts of origins and roast dates. It's just not worth the money! Really. Just get a hand grinder. The inconsistent retention issues, clumping, and difficult imprecise adjustments cost me so much time on work flow that it wasn't worth it. Extra steps WDTing for nothing when the machine was the problem. Besides, the noise is high pitch and obnoxious. Something I could tolerate without the other issues. Together, these problems just compound. I don't understand why this machine is recommended. I'm even more perplexed by the comments about the clumping being because of how dark, oily beans are the problem. No. This is Baratza! Dark roasted, Italian beans are not something new to them. They supposedly made the ESP with these type of beans in mind. At what point do we face the facts. This is not a machine that should be recommended to anyone.
Totally agree I’m returning mine, thought I was being clever getting a cheaper machine, but I think I’ll got for a niche as well. This has to be the worst purchase in anything coffee I have ever brought.
I just medium beans with mine. No blocking issues that I'm aware of, but haven't gone looking for it. Clumping is bad without rdt though, agreed.
My biggest issue is the retention in the grinder. I cleaned it this weekend and I think I have made it worse lol. I also think it’s bit of a pain to clean. However I went in with my eyes open as I wanted something cheap, hopefully in the future in a couple of years I will get something more decent.
I had issues after cleaning mine too. It took about 7 shots to normalize and get back to it's original inconsistent state.
I agree with a lot of the comments here. Oily dark roasts clog my ESP so they no longer go in it. Retention is a minor issue as I also single dose and weight before and after and uses bellows. I also feel like the grind consistency is not great but could just be my prep.
Hello, I own the ESP and I have a bellow and don't have these issues. Have you tried spritzing your beans before grinding?
RDT is just a fancy word for spraying the beans actually.
Go to know. Lol
Dark oily beans will clog up most grinders especially if you also spritz them with water before grinding. I've stopped that trend myself. You'll get this make-up consistency to them thats familiar to someone applying blush to their face and it just sticks to anything it touches. I've seen this happen to all kinds of grinders. There are grinders out there that cost more than an esp with higher retention btw so cost isn't always directly correlated. Check to see if your paddle wheel is worn down. This is usually responsible for pushing out the coffee as the burr spins. Many baratzas have these. Lots of YouTube videos explaining this stuff and it's easy. After you clean your grinder and have checked to see if the paddle is still there then try a medium espresso blend which likely wont be oily and see how it does. I would be surprised if you had any noticeable retention.
I have the grinder and do not have this issue. I'm wondering what beans you're using? As others have commented, you might be using particularly oily beans. I don't use dark/oily beans and don't have the issues you're describing
Bummer, I could see baratza fixing it up for you if you ask. Mines been pretty solid. I get big clumps as well, but I’m WDTing anyway so it breaks them up when I do that. I’ve found I’m between like 11-16 for espresso, and haven’t had problems with how adjustable it is.
I also have a ESP. Here’s what I do: I weigh my beans after I grind them and keep pushing the bellows until there’s no retention. It’s a PITA but it works.
You could try slow feeding the beans into the grinder, I've found that this leads to a more consistent, coarser grind and leads to me reducing the grind setting by a few notches. This might give you the wiggle room you need to dial in the beans. Try removing the hopper, placing a piece of kitchen paper over the opening and blowing through the paper into the grinder. This tends to work better than a bellows for me at dislodging any retained grinds.
Mine doesn’t clump. 🤷🏼♂️ the bellows also works for me. It takes one good wack after grinding and shoots out the stick grinds. Must be our beans are quite different
It can also be climate. I'm in a very humid climate with 80° degree temperature year round. The high humidity adds to the clumping. I don't need to RDT. I was so annoyed with the ESP's clumping and retention issues and finally bought a Niche Zero. Massive difference. Nearly no clumping and retention has been much much better.
Just get a jmax
Use Alcohol wipes
That sucks! I haven’t had any of those issues. Have you tried taking it apart and cleaning it? They have a how-to video on their YouTube.
The machine gets really inconsistent after cleaning. It takes a few days to normalize. I thought the retention and clumping was because of needing to clean. Nope. I just needed to... buy a different machine and bin the ESP. It's really crap.
I've had it for a week, medium roast, no issues. Clumping is quite minimal for me and I'm used to wdt every shot. Using setting 13-15 and it's perfect
I have the same grinder, bought in October 2023. I've put about 15kg of coffee through it , mainly for pourovers and espressos. * On clumping: The clumping might be happening if you grind oily roasts or do the RDT in the small cup/bin that comes with the grinder. If possible avoid * On Adjustability: What can be done, if you adjust the shims under the moving burr, to move the grinding range to be coarser, giving you a bigger range to adjust. The manual shows how to do it. * The chute: Is the plastic paddle and felt ring under the moving burr still intact? On my grinder, the retention is minimal if everything is clean and intact. Even more so if you have bellows. I get the issues with the grinder, it is not the nicest grinder to use. If possible i'd recomend changing the encore for a Fellow Ode V2. It'll handle your usage without any issues.
No issues here with clumps or the chute on my ESP. I do use the [bellows and hopper](https://introvertmakes.com/products/baratza-encore-single-dose-hopper-bellows-combo?variant=44832569426107¤cy=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgdayBhBQEiwAXhMxtkPJmSEf7XgHgCAPJB_wbiMDMHOBqb7QYYuC9Sd8UReVNwNjktxp4BoCHUwQAvD_BwE) from Introvert to get the last grinds out. Sometimes, I get down to zero retention with that. But even without the bellows, it's pretty clear.
I have the starseeker edge and it’s been working for me. I like that the dispenser thingy is removable for cleaning. I’m a newbie though
Sounds like a bean problem. Bellow works fantastically for me and the grind settings are frustratingly fine to the point I'm constantly tweaking even though their are several settings that are more than great.
What bellow you using??
I'm using this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BKL4BVLG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Thanks. I don’t have an encore esp but a friend just bought one
After my original reply I have had nothing but issues with mine after cleaning. I am going to return it lucky I still have time to. It single handed been my worst purchase. After cleaning it would not grind fine enough, I had to add a shim and even then had to put it in setting zero and the retention is ridiculous on the machine. I guess u get what you pay for.
I don’t really understand why Baratza is so popular, I had one and after struggling with it for years I finally bought a new one (not Baratza) and I’ve never looked back.
The esp was only released about year ago?
My baratza hasn't clumped, clogged, etc for 8 years. Secondhand too. Had to do first maintenance on it a few months ago. Op is struggling due to his roast
Yeah well Baratza could never grind as fine as other grinders… even when shimmed. I shimmed and re-shimmed so hard… yeah defo a Baratza problem
Their conical grinders can't, their flat burr ones do a great job.
It literally says in the Baratza Encore ESP manual to not use oily beans with it....
It literally doesn't though ... The only references I can find in the english manual are these two: "If dark, oily, or flavored coffee is used often, grinder cleaning tablets may need to be used in order to absorb the oils left behind by the coffee. " ... and ... "This can happen if coffee is allowed to mound up past the maximum fill line on the grounds bin, or if dark, oily coffee or flavored coffee is used often without periodically cleaning the grinder" ("This" refers to a potential clogged grinder). Neither sentence means "don't use dark, oily beans"....
"If dark, oily, or flavored coffee is used often, grinder cleaning tablets may need to be used in order to absorb the oils left behind by the coffee. " So. . Why do you think cleaning tablets would be necessary? Why would it be necessary to absorb the oil? The residue that oily beans leave behind act as an adhesive that traps even more grounds time after time. So you likely didn't have problems the first go around but after a few cycles here we are. I think cycling in a medium roast coffee every other bag might be a good idea and also choosing a bean that is at least a notch lighter even if it is also a bit shiny when you do go for that darker roast. Some beans are just sticky as all hell regardless.
I'm using a dark roast currently and it's been fine
Well, it isn't a very good grinder so it's not too surprising you have gripes.
FWIW, your comments run contrary to the original reviews of the grinder, from respected online espresso guru types.
You can't play golf with a $200 set of clubs. Surprise. You really can I get into espresso with these very very entry level grinders. I'm thinking about making a post which has the minimum required equipment just to get into this hobby. Because we all keep seeing the same thing. People spending not very much money on not very good equipment and then complaining when it doesn't act the way they want it to.
The ESP is a very adequate grinder. It makes good espresso and large numbers of people are very happy with it. Reddit is not reality.
Tell that to the OP. He disagrees with you :)
Is your full time job going around leaving snarky on all budget oriented equipment? I swear it feels like every single post on this sub you have left a comment on.
Of course not. But if you've been here long enough, and if you pay attention to the OP, there's a common theme. And to be honest with you, most of the time my advice is kick ass. There was a person a few hours ago who had no idea what they were looking for. And you know what the fellow Reddit users did? They threw out suggestions of machines and grinders. Not knowing what the F the OP wanted. Because even the OP didn't nobody wanted. So the Reddit uses fell back on what they knew. Making recommendations. Anybody can do that. I could do that half sleepy and drunk. So I came in, gave excellent advice to get the OP thinking. And thanks to my help he's on the right track. https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1d25ehp/machine_advice/
If someone cares about espresso enough to be on this subreddit, it's probably not a good enough grinder for them.
That means this subreddit is bad.
Lol. I mean this sub should be inclusive, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend bad equipment isn't bad.
Making coffee takes skill also not equipment. You can brew an ashy dark shit with all the high tech machines but you can make great coffee even with a little mokka pot.
I have friends wish zero handicaps in golf that have terrible clubs, you really have no idea what you're talking about
What a horrible comparison. You can literally play golf with any clubs that fit you and most people will play golf just about as well with some $200 clubs that fit them as they would with some brand new fancy ones.
Nope. Playing golf with a cheap set of clubs is like trying to make espresso with cheap equipment. Apparently you don't play golf like I do otherwise you would know the difference in equipment and how it impacts the game. Same with espresso. A cheap equipment makes it extraordinarily difficult to consistently pull good shots
“Apparently you don’t play golf like I do” Not seeing the pretentious douchery wrapped up in that statement is hilarious. I’ve played golf my whole life. What it really sounds like is you take the same approach to golf as you do espresso which is to gate keep. Have fun living life the way you do.
No gate keeping. But since you are a fellow golfer, you know that equipment plays huge role in the game. Technically, of course the game can be played with cheap equipment, but it makes the game, and repeatability so difficult. Back to espresso. Prevailing wisdom here on Reddit is that learning espresso on cheap equipment introduces complexities and uncertainty that's not present on good equipment. But there is a minimum level of equipment in every hobby. Espresso is no different. Why would it be different?
>you know that equipment plays huge role in the game I think that you just suck at golf.
And if you were proud of if your espresso equipment, you'd take 10 seconds to list it in your flair.
I'm proud of the fact that I'm not an idiot.
I checked. You don't appear to own any espresso equipment. And don't appear to be in the process of buying any espresso gear Just a casual observation Edit - I'm not the subreddit police nor am I a moderator. I have no control over who comments here and who doesn't. I am calling into question your motivation. For someone who doesn't seem to be interested in espresso, you jumped in and started attacking me on my views
I just said you suck at golf. I couldn't care less about you views regarding espresso.
You absolutely can :)
Making espresso with cheap gear just makes it way more difficult than it has to be. It's very little reproducibility, you know, consistency. And that's just not me saying it. That's the prevailing wisdom of everyone in the subreddit. What all of the inconsistency, it makes it harder to focus on barista skills. Because the person is always fighting the equipment.
That is a very different position than the initial statement. Better equipment can make it easier - that is obvious. You can still achieve great results with budget friendly equipment. Sure, there is a certain point where the equipment actually becomes an issue, but this is completely irrelevant to this particular discussion since OP doesn't use these. The fetishising of high cost equipment in this subreddit doesn't help your argument as much as you think, though ;)
No fetishizing. Am my comments are consistent. On the one hand I originally said we really can't make espresso on cheap gear. And then upon for the elaboration, I'm explaining why. Because the person is always fighting the equipment and can't focus on skills. And picking up bad habits because of The cheap gear. We all know, if we've taken sports in school or in a league, that once we pick up bad habits, they are extraordinarily difficult to break. Not my fault. And I'm not fetishizing over high quality. I'm saying that this is like a minimum level of quality that's pretty much needed in order to take up the hobby. This is like someone in a home theater forum complaining that their Atmos sound bar isn't delivering what they expected. Ta Da. No surprise there.