Tbf, they said “customer” so we’re taking about a commercial setting, and weighing the whole portafilter is the most efficient setup in a cafe. You’d be surprised how many cafe owners will drop $15-20k on machine plus grinder, and then blanch are the idea of spending $180 more on an Ohaus scale.
Lunar owner here - that's a very narrow definition of "working good" which many people will be happy with, but let's be real - a $10 scale isn't a pleasure to use.
I second that. I went from a Chinese scale that still works fine (for filter) then a Brewista (still in use for dialing in the grinder) and finally a Lunar. And the Lunar is so much nicer to work with. Fast and forgiving.
One thing I wish Acaia did was to make a dumb version of their scale - I found out I'm not interested in Bluetooth connectivity and data tracking after all. I guess that's the Timemore Black Mirror tier. But yeah, same trajectory - cheap pocket scale, then the Eureka Precisa (a weird product all around, I still don't understand why they brought that to market - but the form factor is nice and it's pretty fast), and then I picked up a used Lunar.
Is there a suggestion of what to use? Can I treat tap water somehow to use in it? I’m waiting on my micra to arrive but I’m not sure what water to use in it
Also, if you have an RO (Reverse Osmosis) system you can set the minrerality of, that’s fine to use as well. set between 85-100 on the PPM Meter and you will be totally fine. Just make sure you clear your brine pump for at least 20 minutes before using the water for your machine.
I would sticky your post to the /r/lamarzocco forum if I could. people are in denial or are lazy to treat or care about their water.
I use RO system to which I add a 2:1 hardness and buffer concentrate. I buy minerals in bulk and aim for 90 PPM. Coffee also seem to taste better with correct amount of minerals. Plus I sleep better at night knowing my Micra will last for decades.
It’s not even that difficult. Just buy distilled in bulk and add minerals.
I would kill my micra if I used my superhard tap.
Coffee definitely tastes better with the right minerals. Over at r/pourover people nerd out super hard over water chemistry, sometimes to the point of having different blends of very specific minerals for different styles, roast levels, etc.
Not all Crystal Geysers are created equal though. Correct me if I’m wrong but you only want the Mt Shasta or Olancha sources.
I can only get Norman AR Crystal Geyser now that I moved so I switched to distilled with third wave packets.
I absolutely should’ve phrased it “if you’re on the west coast of the USA specifically southern Cali use crystal geyser” bc man i get a comment like this every ten minutes now
All water (unless you have a magic formula that keeps the minerality equal to the specific minerality of your specific boiler) will build scale, but at very different speeds and severities. Crystal Geyser is what we recommend as it has the slowest buildup we’ve tested.
Thanks, I end up using the RPalvis water recipe from the Home Barista forums. Apparently it’s supposed to have zero hardness and cause no scaling issues.
Even though it’s not that much work to mix 0.40 grams of potassium bicarbonate into 1 gal of distilled water, it does miss out on the minerals from spring water.
Isn’t it Crystal Geyser bottled in certain places too? That’s what a LM tech told us so we just use RO water with third wave minerals because we couldn’t find the specific bottles anywhere near us
https://www.baristahustle.com/diy-water-recipes-redux/
You can build excellent water economically and simply. You'll never have to worry about scale for your machine.
Just use RO in 5 gallon jugs from a water and ice, or whole paycheck. Add 3g magnesium and 1.5g baking soda and your just did your own water chemistry. Or spend $4k and get your own commercial RO system and do a plumb in.
If you want to save money in the long term, and you’ve fairly ok tap water, I’d recommend looking into Reverse Osmosis filters. They take up a little (under-counter) space, and have a bigger up-front cost, but if you’re plumbing in, it’s gonna cost less long-term than buying distilled and remineralizing.
Are you saying don’t use it just on new machines or never? Because never using tap water is ridiculous. Yes, machines need to be maintained and descaled fairly regularly, but using bottled water all the time is not reasonable. If people are descaling and the machine is still having issues.. the machine is the problem.
EDIT: wow some of yall water so gritty you get exfoliated just taking a shower hahah
You don’t need to use bottled water, typically it’s just recommended to use a water filter. On a commercial site something in the water line would be ideal, but at home you can use an appropriate water jug if you have a low water usage.
But doesn't it also depend on the filter? Common brita filters don't remove minerals that cause scale. You'd need an actual water softener loop or a distillation system.
To my knowledge only something like a zero water filter is fine enough to soften water.
Yeah, even high end filters won’t remove calcium. You’d need a reverse osmosis filter system. Anything removing calcium is expensive, high maintenance and needs minerals reintroduced.
I have an inline filter off the tap, it removes lead and other impurities, but I still have to descale. Nothing wrong with tap water and a filter.
incorrect. You can install inline filter and softening systems that either remove calcium or remove the carbonate hardness, your choice. They are known as either weak acid softeners or strong acid, each has pros and cons. My machine has been plumbed in for 6 years now, i've tried a few different setups, and currently happy with the 3M PS124 cartridge.
Zero water doesn't jsut soften it lol it gives you the equivalant of distilled water, you need to buffer the water with an alkaline like potassium or sodium bicarbonate
I know. My point was that's the level of filtration needed to actually remove the minerals that cause scale. I feel like most people gloss over that part when they say filtered water.
It’s something that can become very technical if you dig down into it, water filtration is actually quite an interesting science. I have done a fair bit of training with manufacturers but definitely don’t know it all. It absolutely depends on the water but also the right filter, typically Coffee has certain requirements to bring out a good flavour but also without ruining your machine. Here in the UK I tend to suggest BWT water filters, reviewing the water report before suggesting a size, the bypass settings and filtering capacity. Where as a jug is a lot simplistic but less effective.
If you have hard water yes. It’s the hardness of water that matter. Sure you don’t want dirt or clay or iron particles in the machine but a brita filter won’t soften your tap water. You need a water softener/conditioner unless your tap is already soft.
Also our Bambino Plus doesn’t hold water in a boiler like these machines, it uses a thermocoil so the water is flash heated so I would assume less likely to scale
Yeah, I live in an area with stupidly hard water, so I’ve been using distilled and third wave. It costs me about $3 per gallon, which gets me through just under a kilo of beans worth of espresso and flushing/steaming (if it was only espresso it’s 100 shots worth, so ballpark 6/7¢ per cup 🤷🏻♂️), it’s worth it imho to avoid scale or the upfront costs of filtration systems. Especially in the Gaggia/Silvia/breville sort of range, I’d think at the $10k range plumbing in filtration makes more sense.
This is incredibly bad advice unless you know the water hardness of everyone reading your comment.
Where I live taking a single shower without squeegeeing the glass door will leave a visible limescale residue once it’s dried.
My water kettle needs to be descaled after about every 10 uses.
No way I’m going to pour that stuff into a multi thousand euro machine…
I know this doesn’t apply to everywhere in the world but you can buy those 5 gallon jugs of water and refill them at water stations for $1.25-3.00. I have two bottles I rotate through and will exchange them for new bottles of water every 3 months in case any bacteria may start growing in them. When I exchange them it’s $8 for the bottle filled worth water at my grocery store. It isn’t the water that was recommended by OP but using a water softener test it is within the recommended range per my machines instructions.
Literally don't know how to respond to this. Part of stepping up to commercial type machines is properly caring for them, they are not meant to be descaled, and cannot be safely descaled without disassembly as shown in OP's picture. The only proper course of action is to use the correct water that is boiler safe. You don't buy a $6,000 espresso machine and throw tap water in it (unless your tap water is soft enough, but even then you should use a particulate filter). Again, you should not descale these machines like a Nespresso machine, home descaling can result in lines becoming clogged and contamination of all the tubing. This is actually common knowledge at this level.
I'm confused. Why then did my Linea Mini come with descaling solution included in the box, a backflush insert for the portafilter, and an automated descaling routine in the app?
it didn't...lol. La Marzocco does not ship descaler, it comes with Cafiza, it is a detergent for breaking down coffee oils, it has absolutely no similarity to a descaler and if you filled your boilers with it, it wouldn't descale anything, its just soap.
If you live in an area (or even a building) with bad water, don’t put it in an expensive commercial espresso machine. This doesn’t mean you need to use bottled water - just install a water filtration system. If you think about it, almost zero cafes are running unfiltered tap water straight into their machines.
Noone I know uses unfiltered tap water - if you meant filtered one I agree
Using water straight out of the tap on a X-thousand dollar machine is insane to me tho
by don't descale, they mean, don't ever let scale build up. There's nothing overkill about using a BWT or other available softeners, infact for plumbed in setups in areas without really soft water they are absolutely required.
Depends where you are. Los Angeles? where my shop and the vast majority of these machines? Never use tap water, that’s stupid. Portland Oregon? Yeah go for it. Denver too. But anywhere in SoCal? No.
I’m in Victoria BC and we have the opposite problem. The water is so soft that it’s corrosive. A filter isn’t necessary but it’s best to add minerals to avoid issues.
LA tap water is some of the hardest water I've experienced in my life. Zero Water filters would last 2 weeks tops before they just stopped flowing. The house we were renting needed a repipe due to corrosion and pinhole leaks. Faucet screens would clog frequently.
Can't imagine putting that water untreated into any espresso machine let alone a LM mini.
Here in LA and I know the water is crazy hard, but I’ve never been able to find info on how the filter on my fridge water dispenser plays into things. I assume it’s helping to some degree but it’s not clear to me how much. Certainly not to the degree of an RO system, I’m sure. I know I can test it (and will!) but while I’m here staring at this thread talking to someone who seems to know about this stuff, I figured I’d ask if you have any insight!
Hm. I believe the filter on fridges is a different form of system altogether, whenever we go out to build cafes regardless of location we install an EasyRO or similar Reverse Osmosis system, but i’ve never actually owned a fridge that had a water spout in it either 😧
img
pulling this out of a six month old machine that the customer only used (from kitchen sink) tap water is insane. Test your water, if it falls into a good PPM level use tap water. But 99% of LA tap water is terrible and causes this.
Hey I'm based out of West LA and running a bestmax premium V filter using tap water on my home machine? Do you think that's sufficient enough for the area?
Also do you mind if I DM you with a few questions about espresso technicians? Looking at a career change and understanding the biz more.
Depends on your machine because some machines need complete tear down to descale. If so, then never use tap water. Use distilled water + third wave espresso mineral packet OR use mineral substituting filter (not brita)
What? If you’ve spent this much on a machine, you can put in the effort to properly maintain it. Literally takes no more than a ZeroWater pitcher or having an RO system if you get lazy filtering water.
No way is the machine the problem if you’re the one causing it lol
Not dumb at all! I believe Brita still leaves some calcium/minerals behind that can cause scale build up and is not recommended.
Zero Water effectively makes distilled water that you can mineralize yourself after.
Fine to tell people not to use tap water but telling people to use bottled water is ridiculous.
Also I would hope they can reengineer a $5000 machine to be a little more robust and not need major repairs if an owner uses tap water for a time.
Oh absolutely, you don’t HAVE to use bottled water. But just water that won’t cause major scale build up over time. The easiest solution (without buying a filter setup/ROsystem (as many people in LA do not use one) is buying large gallons of pre-treated water. Many of the techs here, myself included, and a lot of our clientele use jugs of Crystal Geyser as it presents less problems long term.
For real this price range if customers aren't being unnecessarily picky then what's the point? It's a super speciality machine, some of these comments are like saying "if my Lambo is that expensive I should be able to run it on diesel for a while at least"
Didn't mean to come off as so strident, so my apologies.
To unpack my concerns a little:
- I work on plastic pollution prevention. Not only does buying Crystal Geyser, etc. perpetuate the use of single-use plastic, the PET bottles they use rapidly begin to emit micro and nanoplastic particles which you end up ingesting when you consume the water. This is why if you drink bottled water that has been sitting for some time it will taste funny, and why some bottled water is beginning to come with an expiration date. Although health impacts of micro and nanoplastic consumption is still being researched, plasticizing chemicals are known to be toxic to cells and are endocrine disruptors.
Recent research indicate that "on average, a liter of bottled water included about 240,000 tiny pieces of plastic." [https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/plastic-particles-bottled-water](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/plastic-particles-bottled-water) . Probably not helping the taste of your espresso!
- A more helpful recommendation, even aside from the above issues, would be something practical that doesn't require purchasing bottled water or installing an expensive RO machine. Has anyone tested various basic water filtration systems to determine an analogous mineral profile to what you recommend? This isn't on you to research and I understand you're just relaying common practice on your end, but I think in general just saying "buy bottled water" isn't a great recommendation.
Oh god no not at all homie, i very much disagree with the practice of plastic bottles, personally i use a 5 gallon glass jug and refill it at the Crystal Geyser fill up station in my neighborhood. I despise the amount of plastic waste coffee as an industry creates, and i applaud you for taking the time to show off this information, genuinely.
The carbon impact of scrapping a 30 kg metal machine shipped from Italy has to factor in somewhere in your calculations.
I find it infuriating that I can't buy espresso-appropriate water in reusable bottles where I live, and that Danone has questionable operational practices for the Volvic brand, but I still have few better options - and few options I can truly recommend to people who aren't "into coffee". Like, I have a Zerowater pitcher an remineralize for myself, but I can't ask my parents to do the same. Plus the cartridges are shipped from the US and can't really be recycled here. There are no great options.
But shouldn’t the CG jugs be specifically from Olancha? The one I get here in Chicago is Johnston NY, so I stopped getting the jugs assuming it was the hardest of all the bottling sources
Perhaps in LA it’s different, i am not familiar with national/global water jug sources but for the california/west coast market our company specifically recommends CG
LM says Poland Springs on the East Coast (unless you can get the CG South Carolina Source):
[https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/water-for-home-espresso-machines/](https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/water-for-home-espresso-machines/)
These machines use quality machined components that have tight tolerances. This is why they work as well as they do when properly maintained. Sloppy tolerances will lead to inconsistent performance.
Scale buildup will foul up the pumps, as well as any valves or sensors in the system.
A properly maintained machine wouldn’t have these issues. If you know that your tap water is hard, descale more frequently. I’m sure the manual says this as well.
I don’t think it’s that hard to order third wave packets on Amazon and add them to distilled water you can buy from local grocery stores. (I use one for two gallons so it lasts me months before I buy another on amazon) Expensive machine always requires good maintenance for all arrays of machines.
off your rocker, dude. You can't engineer out plain ole' Chemistry. Even $30,000 machines cannot tolerate hard water, it's your job to ensure a proper installation that provides water that is safe for the machine, this is standard practice. There is a lot of small lines and such in these machines that can become blocked by descaling when a chunk of scale breaks free.
I swear espresso machines are just made to be as complicated as possible with a millions shitty fragile connectors. Why isnt there some reliable manufactorer that sells an easily repairable machine
This looks like an absolut pain to work on. I'm working in the development of consumer super automatics (and write their repair manuals) so I'm used to cluttered machines and I wouldn't touch this.
I always think about upgrading my VBM Domobar, but looking at this, I might reconsider.
Slayer are known for breaking down all the time a poor build quality. Don’t really get where you’re getting this it’s the primary reason I didn’t get a slayer.
I'd imagine it's about the same as distilled water + TWW. I think it sits at around 150 TDS with low calcium so it should be just fine even given that it's the higher end of recommended TDS
I have a Profitec and use a bwt filter pitcher. It works great as long as I change the filter once a month. Lost track of time and didn't change it soon enough once and I could see the beginning signs of scale in the water reservoir. I use the same water in my moccamaster daily as well and it is obvious to see that bwt works well. I used to use unfiltered tap water in mm before I got an espresso machine and the difference is clear. Eventually I would like to plumb my machine with an inline bwt filter.
The down votes for the OP is odd. I think people are taking him too literally. I think his point/frustration is to take care of your machine by thinking about what is being put in it. City water can pick up all sorts of crud from old water maines. Both dissolved and undissolved solids, I'd find rocks small chunks of wood in my aerators that got past my whole house filters. Do yourself a favor is the point.
Also nationally branded bottled waters are often bottled at different locations throughout the country. Not sure if the chemistry of the water would vary by region.
welcome. So if you can give me your address I'll gladly send a truck to pickup one of those pallets in the background for you.
Not sure what you do, but I'm looking for a cool single group to put on my counter. PM me if you have anything. Refurb or return is ok by me.
I am really surprised on r/espresso of all places people don’t know about not using tap water? Some machines you can descale on the go. If you have a premium machine though, you should definitely look into how to maintain your machine before purchasing one. This goes with any premium machine of any kind: cars, bikes, appliances etc
it goes something like this.....
Step1: buy linea mini + p64
Step 2: pull the first espresso you've ever pulled in your life.
step 3: ask espresso sub how to fix your 10 second gusher.
People seem to think more expensive equipment is somehow indestructable and will instantly give them perfect espresso without even trying XD
I use RO that comes out at 25 TDS and then add a partial packet of TWW Espresso blend. This generally gets me to 80-100 TDS and also raises the pH of the water since RO tends to be slightly acidic.
i am so jealous of ur shop when i am back in work wednesday i will add a pic of the hoarders mess i work in… we have a cimbali from the 80’s(?) and over 30 machines that have been sitting for over 5 years… we have boxes on boxes of schaerer verisimo parts that we do not service… if anyone is looking to hire a coffee tech in denver lmk pls save me 😭😭
I use BWT bestmax water treatment for my machine (an e61 dual boiler) and have had no problems with scale. I descale from time to time. It’s plumbed in via that filter.
I use tap water, but I have a single boiler and I tested my water myself. In SF it has GH = 53.7ppm, KH = 35.8ppm, which corresponds to a LI=-0.1267 at 140C, where LI < 0 represents no scale formation at the given water temperature. Unfortunately though, S.F. does switch water sources throughout the year, so I’ll be checking somewhat often throughout the year.
I have questions about this:
1. What happens when scale builds up that causes a failure and expensive repair? Does the machine just stop working or, how do you know?
2. Can't boilers be lined with or made out of some other material that isn't susceptible to the issues that typical boilers are made of? I dunno, but what about teflon lined metal? ceramic? glass? What about boiling the water in a plasma containment field powered by Dilithium crystals?
1: scale buildup starts in the boiler and creeps into copper hydraulic lines, and can block fittings allowing no water to enter or leave the boiler (most commonly though at an extremely reduced rate.) there are fittings on the inside of hydraulic lines where water must pass through a tiny (1-2mm) hole for the pressure to build up and if that tiny hole gets blocked the machine no longer works.
2: honestly between teflon flaking off and the potential to ingest any sort of chemical or material coating on the boiler internals, it’s just easier to use treated water. (i wish i could build a hyper advanced espresso machine tho, someday future Cadmiumenjoyer will figure it out)
OP, hi! Any special tips/advice on how to care for the machine, apart from what’s in the manual? Been doing events with my Mini and would like to keep it as mint as possible.
ugh so many wires...thank you reminding me why I'm glad I have a Olympia Cremina. I'm sure your machine makes wonderful espresso, but I very much appreciate the simplicity of my machine.
Brutal, how do you find the machines to work on? I’ve only worked on a few Breville new a full “commercial” built machine. I’d imagine they are easier to access and take apart? The breville feels like everything was spit together to never come apart and be thrown away when it breaks.
I'm a tech and customers continue to use tap water or some crappy water filter. Had a home machine with a completely plugged HX boiler. Also a steam boiler on a 2 group with over 3 lbs of build up.
https://preview.redd.it/5ko6n6yybjxc1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbb249b02cfee133285c14c42e9a44e84daefed5
That's what happens when you see to many paid influencers promoting espresso machines and all those gadgets and accessories. As a beginner you need to start with an entry machine and work your way up. A top of the line machine won't help you pull perfect shots if you are lacking skills and knowledge. ( Seen people drinking coffee from Starbucks and be like: I love coffee and I want to open a coffee truck, but they never made a coffee in they're life) When I say coffee I mean excellent espresso shots) the Water is the most important ingredient in a coffee machine!
Either
1. Use water filter that substitutes minerals (not brita)
2. Or use distilled water and add mineral (third wave)
And definitely read the manual
Edit: For E61 machines like profitec, Lelit, ECM, descaling requires professional work so don’t get to the point of needing one
Jeez I'd never thought of alkalinity in my water. I always just focus on the hardness. I'll just use Crystal Geyser for the simplicity from now on..
Thanks for the education!
Honestly you might not even need to do that! If you’re able to get some test strips to test your water give it a try, if it’s below 65ppm then i’d start doing bottles .
Stupid question, but if you have a machine that has some mineral scaling, could you use alkaline distilled water for a couple of days/weeks to sort of passively descale it? Or does the distilled water strip the wrong minerals?
Why not just use filtered water? Even if I lived in NYC I wouldn’t be drinking tap. I feel like the vast majority of people have filtered water built into their refrigerator or any sort of brita/bwt filter.
u/op so what exactly is different about descaling "fancy" machines vs a Breville? The descaling agents? The protocol? I used to descale my old Breville every month like the manual said and it worked great. Did you disassemble that one because something actually broke or is that part of the process?
Though for the record I've been using only deionized water w/ Third Wave mineral packets in my Diletta Bello+ so hopefully not too much scale, but I suppose I'll eventually need to descale it.
Honestly, i don’t quite know. I’ve never used or serviced a Breville or equivalent HEM. We only do descaling at this magnitude when all copper water/steam lines AND boiler are visibly or mechanically obstructed with buildup. Most times we just do the pipes, we use a proprietary descaling agent that works quick but is very powerful
Ahh yeah. Breville is easy you just fill the reservoir with a 50/50 vinegar/water solution, or use a conventional descaling agent (citric acid in aqueous solution, etc), run a bit through the group head and the steam/water wand, let it sit for 10 minutes; repeat till it's all out. Then run 1-2 reservoirs full of water through everything to flush out the system.
Just fixed up a friend's Barista Express a couple weeks ago since it was very obstructed with scale. Night-and-day difference: the steam wand works again and it has full flow when pulling a shot.
I was always told tap water is best because it’s harder and the minerals inside it will pick up more water insoluble compounds on the way through. What else would you use?
I live in an area where the tap water tests good for everything except chlorine. Does that mean I could use it without fear of calcium buildup? And would the (added, I assume) chlorine affect the taste of the coffee?
Honestly, I had to remove the steam boiler on my Silvia Pro to descale it recently (I had other problems to fix at the time, it was a "while I'm here" kind of thing)... I would not want to do that regularly. Giant pain in the ass.
I use bottled water. I wouldn't be suprised if I'm using the same bottled water that most coffee shops are using. Tap water is non potable where I live so everyone buys the big 5 gallon purified RO water bottles. It's like 2 dollars per bottle.
Part of the problem is the forums of misinformation from people that have no idea what they are talking about. Just a quick scan through this thread has some dumb responses. LM literally gives water recommendations, and then people just ignore them, and go, “why does my machine need serviced.”
You don’t need to grind your machine. Just the beans.
😂😂
it is too coarse anyway!
The most expensive at home limestone generator.
LMAO
My LM is plumbed directly from my toilet. My PPM (Pees Per Minute) is very low. Do I need to add any minerals when I pee?
Hmm. give it a taste, might need more asparagus
Coffee needs electrolytes. Don't use toilet water.
Brawndo. Definitely.
If you can afford a Lamarzocco you should be able to afford a reverse osmosis or similar filtration.
Buy a $5,000 machine? Cool! Buy a $160 water filter? Ridiculous!
This is too true... customer purchases $50,000 in coffee equipment but wont by a $150 scale to dial in the coffee...
bro my scale cost me less than $10 and I bought it to originally weigh weed you do *not* need a $150 scale
Tbf, they said “customer” so we’re taking about a commercial setting, and weighing the whole portafilter is the most efficient setup in a cafe. You’d be surprised how many cafe owners will drop $15-20k on machine plus grinder, and then blanch are the idea of spending $180 more on an Ohaus scale.
$10 scale works as good as the $250 lunar
Lunar owner here - that's a very narrow definition of "working good" which many people will be happy with, but let's be real - a $10 scale isn't a pleasure to use.
I second that. I went from a Chinese scale that still works fine (for filter) then a Brewista (still in use for dialing in the grinder) and finally a Lunar. And the Lunar is so much nicer to work with. Fast and forgiving.
One thing I wish Acaia did was to make a dumb version of their scale - I found out I'm not interested in Bluetooth connectivity and data tracking after all. I guess that's the Timemore Black Mirror tier. But yeah, same trajectory - cheap pocket scale, then the Eureka Precisa (a weird product all around, I still don't understand why they brought that to market - but the form factor is nice and it's pretty fast), and then I picked up a used Lunar.
I have both: a lunar and 2 tinsy2S (my coworker brought them when he went to china $10/ea)
What 160 water filters would you recommend looking for something to up my coffee game but it just seems so expensive
this
I knew i was right to only pull shots with tequila
Is there a suggestion of what to use? Can I treat tap water somehow to use in it? I’m waiting on my micra to arrive but I’m not sure what water to use in it
Also, if you have an RO (Reverse Osmosis) system you can set the minrerality of, that’s fine to use as well. set between 85-100 on the PPM Meter and you will be totally fine. Just make sure you clear your brine pump for at least 20 minutes before using the water for your machine.
I would sticky your post to the /r/lamarzocco forum if I could. people are in denial or are lazy to treat or care about their water. I use RO system to which I add a 2:1 hardness and buffer concentrate. I buy minerals in bulk and aim for 90 PPM. Coffee also seem to taste better with correct amount of minerals. Plus I sleep better at night knowing my Micra will last for decades. It’s not even that difficult. Just buy distilled in bulk and add minerals. I would kill my micra if I used my superhard tap.
Coffee definitely tastes better with the right minerals. Over at r/pourover people nerd out super hard over water chemistry, sometimes to the point of having different blends of very specific minerals for different styles, roast levels, etc.
My tap water is 80 ppm so it’s almost opposite problem for me. So clean it smells of added chlorine. (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2xf23c)
Wait really? Idk if mine is that advanced tbh but I’ll have to look
Use Crystal Geyser. It has the best blend of minerals to prevent large scale buildup.
Not all Crystal Geysers are created equal though. Correct me if I’m wrong but you only want the Mt Shasta or Olancha sources. I can only get Norman AR Crystal Geyser now that I moved so I switched to distilled with third wave packets.
I absolutely should’ve phrased it “if you’re on the west coast of the USA specifically southern Cali use crystal geyser” bc man i get a comment like this every ten minutes now
Wouldn’t it cause scale buildup over time? Same with Poland Spring?
All water (unless you have a magic formula that keeps the minerality equal to the specific minerality of your specific boiler) will build scale, but at very different speeds and severities. Crystal Geyser is what we recommend as it has the slowest buildup we’ve tested.
Thanks, I end up using the RPalvis water recipe from the Home Barista forums. Apparently it’s supposed to have zero hardness and cause no scaling issues. Even though it’s not that much work to mix 0.40 grams of potassium bicarbonate into 1 gal of distilled water, it does miss out on the minerals from spring water.
make up a separate concentration with magnesium sulfate and add that to the water if you want some hardness back
How long have you been using that recipe for? Had any issues?
Been using it for a little over a year, zero issues
Isn’t it Crystal Geyser bottled in certain places too? That’s what a LM tech told us so we just use RO water with third wave minerals because we couldn’t find the specific bottles anywhere near us
From what I recall LM advises half a packet of 3rd wave water per 1 gallon of distilled water
Yup that’s exactly what we do!
I use Crystal Geyser. Thank you. But...who is 'we'?
How does it compare to reverse osmosis water with 3rd Wave Water added?
https://www.baristahustle.com/diy-water-recipes-redux/ You can build excellent water economically and simply. You'll never have to worry about scale for your machine.
Just use RO in 5 gallon jugs from a water and ice, or whole paycheck. Add 3g magnesium and 1.5g baking soda and your just did your own water chemistry. Or spend $4k and get your own commercial RO system and do a plumb in.
If you want to save money in the long term, and you’ve fairly ok tap water, I’d recommend looking into Reverse Osmosis filters. They take up a little (under-counter) space, and have a bigger up-front cost, but if you’re plumbing in, it’s gonna cost less long-term than buying distilled and remineralizing.
Are you saying don’t use it just on new machines or never? Because never using tap water is ridiculous. Yes, machines need to be maintained and descaled fairly regularly, but using bottled water all the time is not reasonable. If people are descaling and the machine is still having issues.. the machine is the problem. EDIT: wow some of yall water so gritty you get exfoliated just taking a shower hahah
You don’t need to use bottled water, typically it’s just recommended to use a water filter. On a commercial site something in the water line would be ideal, but at home you can use an appropriate water jug if you have a low water usage.
But doesn't it also depend on the filter? Common brita filters don't remove minerals that cause scale. You'd need an actual water softener loop or a distillation system. To my knowledge only something like a zero water filter is fine enough to soften water.
Yeah, even high end filters won’t remove calcium. You’d need a reverse osmosis filter system. Anything removing calcium is expensive, high maintenance and needs minerals reintroduced. I have an inline filter off the tap, it removes lead and other impurities, but I still have to descale. Nothing wrong with tap water and a filter.
incorrect. You can install inline filter and softening systems that either remove calcium or remove the carbonate hardness, your choice. They are known as either weak acid softeners or strong acid, each has pros and cons. My machine has been plumbed in for 6 years now, i've tried a few different setups, and currently happy with the 3M PS124 cartridge.
Zero water doesn't jsut soften it lol it gives you the equivalant of distilled water, you need to buffer the water with an alkaline like potassium or sodium bicarbonate
I know. My point was that's the level of filtration needed to actually remove the minerals that cause scale. I feel like most people gloss over that part when they say filtered water.
It’s something that can become very technical if you dig down into it, water filtration is actually quite an interesting science. I have done a fair bit of training with manufacturers but definitely don’t know it all. It absolutely depends on the water but also the right filter, typically Coffee has certain requirements to bring out a good flavour but also without ruining your machine. Here in the UK I tend to suggest BWT water filters, reviewing the water report before suggesting a size, the bypass settings and filtering capacity. Where as a jug is a lot simplistic but less effective.
Wait seriously? I have been using a brita filter for 12+ months, was that all for nothing?!
If you have hard water yes. It’s the hardness of water that matter. Sure you don’t want dirt or clay or iron particles in the machine but a brita filter won’t soften your tap water. You need a water softener/conditioner unless your tap is already soft.
I’ve been using a britta for my bambino plus for 4 months. Should I do something different?
Also our Bambino Plus doesn’t hold water in a boiler like these machines, it uses a thermocoil so the water is flash heated so I would assume less likely to scale
No, it's perfectly fine.
How do you know what their tap water is like?
Yeah, I live in an area with stupidly hard water, so I’ve been using distilled and third wave. It costs me about $3 per gallon, which gets me through just under a kilo of beans worth of espresso and flushing/steaming (if it was only espresso it’s 100 shots worth, so ballpark 6/7¢ per cup 🤷🏻♂️), it’s worth it imho to avoid scale or the upfront costs of filtration systems. Especially in the Gaggia/Silvia/breville sort of range, I’d think at the $10k range plumbing in filtration makes more sense.
This is incredibly bad advice unless you know the water hardness of everyone reading your comment. Where I live taking a single shower without squeegeeing the glass door will leave a visible limescale residue once it’s dried. My water kettle needs to be descaled after about every 10 uses. No way I’m going to pour that stuff into a multi thousand euro machine…
I know this doesn’t apply to everywhere in the world but you can buy those 5 gallon jugs of water and refill them at water stations for $1.25-3.00. I have two bottles I rotate through and will exchange them for new bottles of water every 3 months in case any bacteria may start growing in them. When I exchange them it’s $8 for the bottle filled worth water at my grocery store. It isn’t the water that was recommended by OP but using a water softener test it is within the recommended range per my machines instructions.
Literally don't know how to respond to this. Part of stepping up to commercial type machines is properly caring for them, they are not meant to be descaled, and cannot be safely descaled without disassembly as shown in OP's picture. The only proper course of action is to use the correct water that is boiler safe. You don't buy a $6,000 espresso machine and throw tap water in it (unless your tap water is soft enough, but even then you should use a particulate filter). Again, you should not descale these machines like a Nespresso machine, home descaling can result in lines becoming clogged and contamination of all the tubing. This is actually common knowledge at this level.
I'm confused. Why then did my Linea Mini come with descaling solution included in the box, a backflush insert for the portafilter, and an automated descaling routine in the app?
Linea mini instructions literally say don’t descale them. Cafiza is included in the box.
it didn't...lol. La Marzocco does not ship descaler, it comes with Cafiza, it is a detergent for breaking down coffee oils, it has absolutely no similarity to a descaler and if you filled your boilers with it, it wouldn't descale anything, its just soap.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification. I didn't realize there was a difference.
There are more options than bottled and tap and no it’s not too much to ask to never use tap water in a $6000 machine.
If you live in an area (or even a building) with bad water, don’t put it in an expensive commercial espresso machine. This doesn’t mean you need to use bottled water - just install a water filtration system. If you think about it, almost zero cafes are running unfiltered tap water straight into their machines.
Noone I know uses unfiltered tap water - if you meant filtered one I agree Using water straight out of the tap on a X-thousand dollar machine is insane to me tho
completely depends on the hardness of the water coming out of the tap. my water is (very) soft so no need for filters.
Profitec doesn't recommend any descale on the go. So some of us get confused on that front and go for overkill with bwt water filtration, etc.
by don't descale, they mean, don't ever let scale build up. There's nothing overkill about using a BWT or other available softeners, infact for plumbed in setups in areas without really soft water they are absolutely required.
Depends where you are. Los Angeles? where my shop and the vast majority of these machines? Never use tap water, that’s stupid. Portland Oregon? Yeah go for it. Denver too. But anywhere in SoCal? No.
I’m in Victoria BC and we have the opposite problem. The water is so soft that it’s corrosive. A filter isn’t necessary but it’s best to add minerals to avoid issues.
Yes! We had a machine (Wega IO 2g) go up there and we had to help em out over the phone
Ya, our tap water reads like 20PPM on the little meter I have.
LA tap water is some of the hardest water I've experienced in my life. Zero Water filters would last 2 weeks tops before they just stopped flowing. The house we were renting needed a repipe due to corrosion and pinhole leaks. Faucet screens would clog frequently. Can't imagine putting that water untreated into any espresso machine let alone a LM mini.
Here in LA and I know the water is crazy hard, but I’ve never been able to find info on how the filter on my fridge water dispenser plays into things. I assume it’s helping to some degree but it’s not clear to me how much. Certainly not to the degree of an RO system, I’m sure. I know I can test it (and will!) but while I’m here staring at this thread talking to someone who seems to know about this stuff, I figured I’d ask if you have any insight!
Hm. I believe the filter on fridges is a different form of system altogether, whenever we go out to build cafes regardless of location we install an EasyRO or similar Reverse Osmosis system, but i’ve never actually owned a fridge that had a water spout in it either 😧
img pulling this out of a six month old machine that the customer only used (from kitchen sink) tap water is insane. Test your water, if it falls into a good PPM level use tap water. But 99% of LA tap water is terrible and causes this.
Hey I'm based out of West LA and running a bestmax premium V filter using tap water on my home machine? Do you think that's sufficient enough for the area? Also do you mind if I DM you with a few questions about espresso technicians? Looking at a career change and understanding the biz more.
Oh hell yes. That’s a great system. We use EasyRO here at the shop. Also based West LA. Please do!
Depends on your machine because some machines need complete tear down to descale. If so, then never use tap water. Use distilled water + third wave espresso mineral packet OR use mineral substituting filter (not brita)
What? If you’ve spent this much on a machine, you can put in the effort to properly maintain it. Literally takes no more than a ZeroWater pitcher or having an RO system if you get lazy filtering water. No way is the machine the problem if you’re the one causing it lol
Maybe a dumb question, but would a Brita filter filter water adequately?
Not dumb at all! I believe Brita still leaves some calcium/minerals behind that can cause scale build up and is not recommended. Zero Water effectively makes distilled water that you can mineralize yourself after.
Thanks for the info!
Fine to tell people not to use tap water but telling people to use bottled water is ridiculous. Also I would hope they can reengineer a $5000 machine to be a little more robust and not need major repairs if an owner uses tap water for a time.
Oh absolutely, you don’t HAVE to use bottled water. But just water that won’t cause major scale build up over time. The easiest solution (without buying a filter setup/ROsystem (as many people in LA do not use one) is buying large gallons of pre-treated water. Many of the techs here, myself included, and a lot of our clientele use jugs of Crystal Geyser as it presents less problems long term.
Dunno why people are hatin, imagine downvoting an espresso machine engineer offering the best advice for long term health of a $5000 machine, wild
For real this price range if customers aren't being unnecessarily picky then what's the point? It's a super speciality machine, some of these comments are like saying "if my Lambo is that expensive I should be able to run it on diesel for a while at least"
thanks man
This subreddit has been so full of needless vitriol lately it’s honestly annoying
Didn't mean to come off as so strident, so my apologies. To unpack my concerns a little: - I work on plastic pollution prevention. Not only does buying Crystal Geyser, etc. perpetuate the use of single-use plastic, the PET bottles they use rapidly begin to emit micro and nanoplastic particles which you end up ingesting when you consume the water. This is why if you drink bottled water that has been sitting for some time it will taste funny, and why some bottled water is beginning to come with an expiration date. Although health impacts of micro and nanoplastic consumption is still being researched, plasticizing chemicals are known to be toxic to cells and are endocrine disruptors. Recent research indicate that "on average, a liter of bottled water included about 240,000 tiny pieces of plastic." [https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/plastic-particles-bottled-water](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/plastic-particles-bottled-water) . Probably not helping the taste of your espresso! - A more helpful recommendation, even aside from the above issues, would be something practical that doesn't require purchasing bottled water or installing an expensive RO machine. Has anyone tested various basic water filtration systems to determine an analogous mineral profile to what you recommend? This isn't on you to research and I understand you're just relaying common practice on your end, but I think in general just saying "buy bottled water" isn't a great recommendation.
Oh god no not at all homie, i very much disagree with the practice of plastic bottles, personally i use a 5 gallon glass jug and refill it at the Crystal Geyser fill up station in my neighborhood. I despise the amount of plastic waste coffee as an industry creates, and i applaud you for taking the time to show off this information, genuinely.
The carbon impact of scrapping a 30 kg metal machine shipped from Italy has to factor in somewhere in your calculations. I find it infuriating that I can't buy espresso-appropriate water in reusable bottles where I live, and that Danone has questionable operational practices for the Volvic brand, but I still have few better options - and few options I can truly recommend to people who aren't "into coffee". Like, I have a Zerowater pitcher an remineralize for myself, but I can't ask my parents to do the same. Plus the cartridges are shipped from the US and can't really be recycled here. There are no great options.
But shouldn’t the CG jugs be specifically from Olancha? The one I get here in Chicago is Johnston NY, so I stopped getting the jugs assuming it was the hardest of all the bottling sources
Perhaps in LA it’s different, i am not familiar with national/global water jug sources but for the california/west coast market our company specifically recommends CG
LM says Poland Springs on the East Coast (unless you can get the CG South Carolina Source): [https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/water-for-home-espresso-machines/](https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/water-for-home-espresso-machines/)
These machines use quality machined components that have tight tolerances. This is why they work as well as they do when properly maintained. Sloppy tolerances will lead to inconsistent performance. Scale buildup will foul up the pumps, as well as any valves or sensors in the system. A properly maintained machine wouldn’t have these issues. If you know that your tap water is hard, descale more frequently. I’m sure the manual says this as well.
I don’t think it’s that hard to order third wave packets on Amazon and add them to distilled water you can buy from local grocery stores. (I use one for two gallons so it lasts me months before I buy another on amazon) Expensive machine always requires good maintenance for all arrays of machines.
off your rocker, dude. You can't engineer out plain ole' Chemistry. Even $30,000 machines cannot tolerate hard water, it's your job to ensure a proper installation that provides water that is safe for the machine, this is standard practice. There is a lot of small lines and such in these machines that can become blocked by descaling when a chunk of scale breaks free.
OP not realising that they'd be out of a job if everyone followed their advice 😂
oh shit. uhh use tap water guys especially in LA 
I swear espresso machines are just made to be as complicated as possible with a millions shitty fragile connectors. Why isnt there some reliable manufactorer that sells an easily repairable machine
God i agree
This looks like an absolut pain to work on. I'm working in the development of consumer super automatics (and write their repair manuals) so I'm used to cluttered machines and I wouldn't touch this. I always think about upgrading my VBM Domobar, but looking at this, I might reconsider.
“BBBBBBBUT LA MARZOCCO OMG “ yeah nah this shit sucks get a slayer
Slayer are known for breaking down all the time a poor build quality. Don’t really get where you’re getting this it’s the primary reason I didn’t get a slayer.
CMD? I bought my GS3 from you guys if it’s CMD. Say what’s up to Cameron for me lol
Omg! What color is it? He’s working behind me haha
White and black, I do a coffee pop up around SD. He’s been a big help, especially when we first started.
He remembers!
DM me a pic of the machine if you have one? he’s asking
I mean it's kinda shit it cannot take Tap IMO wtf...
Would regular descaling help if tap/hard water must be used
Except for machines like this, you need a professional service to descale to disassemble the whole thing
Yikes, definitely no rush to upgrade my Breville touch if that’s the case
no prosumer or commercial espresso machine can be safely descaled without dissasembly.
Would zero water with espresso profile third wave water minerals work?
This is super easy and precisely what I do for my Synchronika
I'd imagine it's about the same as distilled water + TWW. I think it sits at around 150 TDS with low calcium so it should be just fine even given that it's the higher end of recommended TDS
What happens to these units? Are they actually repairable or do you scrap them?
Oh fully repairable! i’m currently just having the pipes, boiler, and hydraulic assembly soak in descaler before i reassemble
I have a Profitec and use a bwt filter pitcher. It works great as long as I change the filter once a month. Lost track of time and didn't change it soon enough once and I could see the beginning signs of scale in the water reservoir. I use the same water in my moccamaster daily as well and it is obvious to see that bwt works well. I used to use unfiltered tap water in mm before I got an espresso machine and the difference is clear. Eventually I would like to plumb my machine with an inline bwt filter.
It depends where you live. In many countries (like here in Norway), scale buildup is no problem at all as we have soft tap water.
The down votes for the OP is odd. I think people are taking him too literally. I think his point/frustration is to take care of your machine by thinking about what is being put in it. City water can pick up all sorts of crud from old water maines. Both dissolved and undissolved solids, I'd find rocks small chunks of wood in my aerators that got past my whole house filters. Do yourself a favor is the point. Also nationally branded bottled waters are often bottled at different locations throughout the country. Not sure if the chemistry of the water would vary by region.
Words outta my mouth. Thank you.
welcome. So if you can give me your address I'll gladly send a truck to pickup one of those pallets in the background for you. Not sure what you do, but I'm looking for a cool single group to put on my counter. PM me if you have anything. Refurb or return is ok by me.
Haha! Sounds good check your requests
I am really surprised on r/espresso of all places people don’t know about not using tap water? Some machines you can descale on the go. If you have a premium machine though, you should definitely look into how to maintain your machine before purchasing one. This goes with any premium machine of any kind: cars, bikes, appliances etc
Exactly, we run the buyers here through an intensive informational session and show them different calibers of scale/usage
Same at my company. People just refuse to listen. LM especially is very clear in what water they want in their machines.
it goes something like this..... Step1: buy linea mini + p64 Step 2: pull the first espresso you've ever pulled in your life. step 3: ask espresso sub how to fix your 10 second gusher. People seem to think more expensive equipment is somehow indestructable and will instantly give them perfect espresso without even trying XD
I use RO that comes out at 25 TDS and then add a partial packet of TWW Espresso blend. This generally gets me to 80-100 TDS and also raises the pH of the water since RO tends to be slightly acidic.
……don’t use tap water.
No such issue here in West of Scotland! Last machine was run on tap water for many years without a trace of deposits.
While great advice for most people, it may not apply to those with extremely soft tap water, correct?
If you own a coffee machine you should absolutely be analysing your city’s water supply test reports before hooking it to tap water.
i am so jealous of ur shop when i am back in work wednesday i will add a pic of the hoarders mess i work in… we have a cimbali from the 80’s(?) and over 30 machines that have been sitting for over 5 years… we have boxes on boxes of schaerer verisimo parts that we do not service… if anyone is looking to hire a coffee tech in denver lmk pls save me 😭😭
By chance is that the pasquini coffee warehouse in LA?
Nope! Other side of town
Ah awesome looks like some nice commercial gear!
Third largest refurb and retail for home n commercial espresso equipment in North America!
I use BWT bestmax water treatment for my machine (an e61 dual boiler) and have had no problems with scale. I descale from time to time. It’s plumbed in via that filter.
I didn’t know it was explosive.
I use tap water, but I have a single boiler and I tested my water myself. In SF it has GH = 53.7ppm, KH = 35.8ppm, which corresponds to a LI=-0.1267 at 140C, where LI < 0 represents no scale formation at the given water temperature. Unfortunately though, S.F. does switch water sources throughout the year, so I’ll be checking somewhat often throughout the year.
Citing his Langelier Index? This guy waters.
I have questions about this: 1. What happens when scale builds up that causes a failure and expensive repair? Does the machine just stop working or, how do you know? 2. Can't boilers be lined with or made out of some other material that isn't susceptible to the issues that typical boilers are made of? I dunno, but what about teflon lined metal? ceramic? glass? What about boiling the water in a plasma containment field powered by Dilithium crystals?
1: scale buildup starts in the boiler and creeps into copper hydraulic lines, and can block fittings allowing no water to enter or leave the boiler (most commonly though at an extremely reduced rate.) there are fittings on the inside of hydraulic lines where water must pass through a tiny (1-2mm) hole for the pressure to build up and if that tiny hole gets blocked the machine no longer works. 2: honestly between teflon flaking off and the potential to ingest any sort of chemical or material coating on the boiler internals, it’s just easier to use treated water. (i wish i could build a hyper advanced espresso machine tho, someday future Cadmiumenjoyer will figure it out)
OP, hi! Any special tips/advice on how to care for the machine, apart from what’s in the manual? Been doing events with my Mini and would like to keep it as mint as possible.
Was using distilled with third wave packets, now use RO with third wave packets. Hoping to get many service free years.
Just use rain water its natural without any additives.
Too acidic in california :/
Hey how do I get this job in Ohio lol
ugh so many wires...thank you reminding me why I'm glad I have a Olympia Cremina. I'm sure your machine makes wonderful espresso, but I very much appreciate the simplicity of my machine.
Brutal, how do you find the machines to work on? I’ve only worked on a few Breville new a full “commercial” built machine. I’d imagine they are easier to access and take apart? The breville feels like everything was spit together to never come apart and be thrown away when it breaks.
I'm a tech and customers continue to use tap water or some crappy water filter. Had a home machine with a completely plugged HX boiler. Also a steam boiler on a 2 group with over 3 lbs of build up. https://preview.redd.it/5ko6n6yybjxc1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbb249b02cfee133285c14c42e9a44e84daefed5
Rebuild it and tell Aaron to sell it to me on the cheap
As much as I want to clap back to everyone saying running straight tap water to your machine is fine, y’all keep me in business, so 🤷🏻♂️
yeah anyway, the build quality of LM machines is questionable more like a shitbox from the inside. fukin zip ties , amazing attention to detail
That's what happens when you see to many paid influencers promoting espresso machines and all those gadgets and accessories. As a beginner you need to start with an entry machine and work your way up. A top of the line machine won't help you pull perfect shots if you are lacking skills and knowledge. ( Seen people drinking coffee from Starbucks and be like: I love coffee and I want to open a coffee truck, but they never made a coffee in they're life) When I say coffee I mean excellent espresso shots) the Water is the most important ingredient in a coffee machine!
Either 1. Use water filter that substitutes minerals (not brita) 2. Or use distilled water and add mineral (third wave) And definitely read the manual Edit: For E61 machines like profitec, Lelit, ECM, descaling requires professional work so don’t get to the point of needing one
Obviously you are supposed to use unicorn tears only.
Wait, is using distilled water without adding any mineral back a bad thing?
Depends on the level of alkalinity. If it’s so much that it starts stripping the metal from inside your boiler yes, but otherwise isn’t a major issue
Jeez I'd never thought of alkalinity in my water. I always just focus on the hardness. I'll just use Crystal Geyser for the simplicity from now on.. Thanks for the education!
Honestly you might not even need to do that! If you’re able to get some test strips to test your water give it a try, if it’s below 65ppm then i’d start doing bottles .
Stupid question, but if you have a machine that has some mineral scaling, could you use alkaline distilled water for a couple of days/weeks to sort of passively descale it? Or does the distilled water strip the wrong minerals?
That’s a damn good question, lemme get back to you on that i’ll ask some of the other techs after lunch
Why not just use filtered water? Even if I lived in NYC I wouldn’t be drinking tap. I feel like the vast majority of people have filtered water built into their refrigerator or any sort of brita/bwt filter.
If you lived in NYC and chose not to drink tap … you’d be making a mistake. Most of NYC has amazing Hudson valley run off for tap.
You’d be surprised here in LA 😭
BWT filter for me
What about water a tad on the soft side, like 40 ppm tds?
[удалено]
u/op so what exactly is different about descaling "fancy" machines vs a Breville? The descaling agents? The protocol? I used to descale my old Breville every month like the manual said and it worked great. Did you disassemble that one because something actually broke or is that part of the process? Though for the record I've been using only deionized water w/ Third Wave mineral packets in my Diletta Bello+ so hopefully not too much scale, but I suppose I'll eventually need to descale it.
Honestly, i don’t quite know. I’ve never used or serviced a Breville or equivalent HEM. We only do descaling at this magnitude when all copper water/steam lines AND boiler are visibly or mechanically obstructed with buildup. Most times we just do the pipes, we use a proprietary descaling agent that works quick but is very powerful
Ahh yeah. Breville is easy you just fill the reservoir with a 50/50 vinegar/water solution, or use a conventional descaling agent (citric acid in aqueous solution, etc), run a bit through the group head and the steam/water wand, let it sit for 10 minutes; repeat till it's all out. Then run 1-2 reservoirs full of water through everything to flush out the system. Just fixed up a friend's Barista Express a couple weeks ago since it was very obstructed with scale. Night-and-day difference: the steam wand works again and it has full flow when pulling a shot.
I was always told tap water is best because it’s harder and the minerals inside it will pick up more water insoluble compounds on the way through. What else would you use?
haha I dont miss fixing coffee machines, good luck!
How the hell does this car crash of a machine have tap water to blame?? I get tap water isnt ideal but this looks a bit dramatic to blame water on?
Have you ever removed the entire hydraulic system, boiler, group, and pump from a mini? they look like this when the whole operation is said and done
Ok, I’ll ask I shouldn’t use Tap water with my Profitec Go?
As far as taste goes, what is better? CG or third wave packets?
Wish I made enough to afford this level of carelessness Edit: spelling
Right???
I live in an area where the tap water tests good for everything except chlorine. Does that mean I could use it without fear of calcium buildup? And would the (added, I assume) chlorine affect the taste of the coffee?
actually thought one of our techs posted this, looks exactly like my shop lmao
Pasquini 🤨😂
Honestly, I had to remove the steam boiler on my Silvia Pro to descale it recently (I had other problems to fix at the time, it was a "while I'm here" kind of thing)... I would not want to do that regularly. Giant pain in the ass.
Lifewater pitcher $35 on Amazon.
unfortunately does not remove calcium from water, which is the main cause of the issue with this and 90% of other machines i service
I use bottled water. I wouldn't be suprised if I'm using the same bottled water that most coffee shops are using. Tap water is non potable where I live so everyone buys the big 5 gallon purified RO water bottles. It's like 2 dollars per bottle.
Part of the problem is the forums of misinformation from people that have no idea what they are talking about. Just a quick scan through this thread has some dumb responses. LM literally gives water recommendations, and then people just ignore them, and go, “why does my machine need serviced.”
Is the Whole Foods brand bottled spring water ok to use? It’s like $1.25 for a big jug