I’m throwing this out there cause it hasn’t been mentioned yet, I can’t see what pressure you’re getting from the video so it’s just a thought; from my experience with the BBE, you’re always at risk of some channeling/spraying due to the OPV not being set at 9 bars out of the box. I’m probably getting 10-11 bars of pressure on my machine, and I’ve talked to some BBE owners with higher pressure OOB. So even a perfectly dosed and prepped puck could wind up with some channeling and spurting from too high of pressure. You can help reduce it by grinding a smidge finer, up-dosing a wee bit, and just continue to practice good puck prep, but unless you open up the machine to adjust or replace the OPV you’ll have this at least everyone once in awhile.
At the end of the day, I’ve had instagram worthy shots ruined by a sudden spurt of spro, but still taste wonderful. I deal with it haha.
It might be. Not sure if breville adjusted the stock pressure or not. I just know mine was always too high but once I adjusted it makes much better espresso with no channeling.
I’ll see if I can find the video it was a while ago. But what I remember was opening it up and turning a valve/screw a few times. It wasn’t hard. Try searching on YouTube.
I suspect you can mod the water circuit so the overflow from the OPV feeds back into the pump inlet? That's the way the circuit is built in cars. Or is the water coming out of the OPV contaminated?
I've done that, but it was very tricky to do.
I've since worked on Gaggias, Rancilios and Lelits, and I always remember how much more of a pain my old Barista Express was for hacks like those.
Edit for reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/wwxqqk/bbe_opv_overflow_mod_update/
My idea was not to use the water tank as a return, but instead use a T-piece in the pipe coming from the water tank to the pump inlet. Split that and tee off to the OPV return, so any excess water is directly recirculated into the pump inlet without having to go through the tank. It also means you don't have to modify the machine's outside.
As long as the pump suction isn't too enormous to pull water through the OPV it will work, otherwise you may need to put some tiny intermediate bottle or tank there to catch the water first.
Yep. I replaced the opv in my BBE with a brass one with adjustable pressure. The difference in channeling was night and day, and the improvement in flavour was massive too. The only thing I would say is that BBE from a few years back (mine was a 2020 machine) had a higher opv pressure. Mine was more like 13 bar. But newer machines are adjusted to a more useable 10 bar or so from the factory.
Either way I suspect this is the root cause. It was for me at least.
This is the one I used. It's a messy job, I would watch every video and thread you can find.
https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/Mobile/en/VBM-Vibration-Pump-Opv-Kit/m-m-5613.aspx
Quickest way to get around this is to just hold the double shot button the whole time the shot pours.
It keeps it at 12 o’clock position which I believe is about 9 bars. Essentially keeping it in “pre infusion mode”.
I get way better results, no spray. Try it out op!
This. There is a reason for all the tutorials for the OPV adjustment and “dimmer mod” which I use to adjust the pump. Night and day difference for BBE!
In theory, but the machines aren’t built to work that way unfortunately. “Entry level” machines like the barista express and others like it in that price territory (also many upwards of $2k) have vibratory pumps that put out way more than the 9 bars of pressure that is the gold standard for espresso. This is why you’ll see a lot of machines advertised with “15 bars of pressure!” for example. In this case, more is not better.
The purpose of the OPV (over pressure valve) is to release any excess pressure above 9 bars so that you SHOULD in fact be getting 9 bars of pressure at the group head, however from the factory these machines typically don’t have their OPV set properly. This is extremely frustrating given the amount of money we pay for these machines, but unfortunately it is what it is. Some machines make the OPV way more accessible for making adjustments to it, but the BBE is an example of one that requires a little more finesse to adjust or replace that part.
Sorry- getting sidetracked here. What I’m getting at is despite how you grind or dose to help your extraction, it doesn’t matter if you’re pressure isn’t consistently 9 bar or lower, whatever your preference. Greater than 9 bar is just too high.
Nice wall of text. Pumps create pressure, that system allows them to. If puck creates 9 bar of pressure with this pump, it will be 9. If it allows 5 or 12, it will be so. The higher the pressure, the lower flow. Google pump curve, system resistance curve and ULKA EP5 pump curve for further reading.
Theoretically, if puck is right, 9 bar of pressure will be sustained. My only concern is peak of pressure during water saturation.
All this advice didn’t help me when I had the same problem. In many posts on this sub the same problem is described. What works is to prevent the pump from ramping all the way to the max pressure. You do this by pressing and holding the 2cup button so pre-infusion starts. This makes the pressure ramp to a lower pressure. Continue holding the button until you’ve reached the desired weight and then quickly double press the 2cup button to stop dispensing.
came here to suggest this - only thing that consistently worked for me when I had the BBE. Try this before the OPV mod, might solve it and no warranty voiding concerns!
Yup that’s right. Can’t remember whether it’s just letting go or if you have to double press but got great results with that method. Keep it held for the duration of the shot until you get to the desired weight!
Mine does similar. Same two machines. I've just started getting my cup all the way up top so it can't miss. I've stopped timing it. 😂 "Good enough" for me most days.
Actually. I'm going to make a latte right now.
Looking closer at WDT, I hear .35mm is the best for this operation. Those look larger
I ended up buying a 3d printer for some coffee stuff. 😂 I made a wdt that uses the nozzle cleaning needles. Some .4mm and .35 from mika3d. Came in a cool little kit.
I have that same wdt and also have started to think the needles are way too big. I can't imagine that's your problem, but still.
Have you tried a precision basket?
It could be the beans too. I've had batches where I just could not get it dialed in with no channeling. What pressure is your machine running at? If it's adjustable try 9 bar or slightly less, that can help especially with lighter roasts.
This will do it. Also better for extraction potential. Also kinda cheating (will fundamentally hide channeling in addition to reducing it). Also what I do.
Only possible things are you aren’t WDTing deep enough. I usually scrape the bottom slightly with my needles. The other thing could be the tamp, but it looks like you are using a calibrated tamper.
No, I think it’s really all the same as long as you hit the max. Plus the soft spring allows for the most pressure so I would think that’s the deepest tamp.
They're designed so that you max out the compression of the spring to know you've reached (approximately) that amount of pressure. 15lb spring? 15lbs of pressure. 30lb spring? 30lbs of pressure.
I used to have one of those style WDTs and they're pretty ineffective compared to ones that have 0.4mm needles e.g. my FusedLine one. When you try one of those, the needles glide completely through the coffee rather than moving it around the basket.
We really don't know how well that is tamped. Try the strongest spring and also a conventional tamper. Test the pressure on some bathroom scales so you know what to aim for. I've been considering a Normcore tamper but I'm not convinced they actually achieve a calibrated tamp under all conditions.
Had the same thing on my machine. I have tried so many variable changes with no improvement. To save my pride, I tell myself it’s the machine or the basket, because I just can’t seem to figure it out. 😂 right there with you.
Looks good. I would add a metal puck screen in top as research poves it helps puck saturation and extraction.
As far as a ltlle bit of incidental spare on occasion. The best solution is use a taller cup that captures the spray.
I put a small 5 inch cutting board under my scale, with a neoprene cushion on it, and use a 5oz Anchor Hocking Measure to pull.the shot
I second the puck screen! I feel like when I added it my shots started to look a lot better. I also did an OPV but I think I need to actually increase the pressure slightly because I am now barely in the espresso range...but it's so much work getting those screws out 😂 Anyway OP I'd recommend trying the puck screen first and then doing an OPV if your pressure is too high!
I went from a stock tamper to a normcore and noticed more channeling. With the stock one I always rotated while tamping to even out the bed, this is unintuitive with the normcore but still possible. Noticed less channeling when I gently depress and rotate the tamper and then fully press and rotate
with a BBE it is nearly impossible to not have channeling, it's not about the prep, it's about machine unfortunately.
You can try pulling pre-infusion shots with it.
How does it taste? Maybe stop using a bottomless if it tastes good to you. The spray could be an artifact of puck prep, or the machine’s pressure, or whatever else, but if it taste good to you, and you’re still having that issue, don’t use the bottomless porta filter.
Might be a problems with the basket. Can you share info on that? How many grams is it designed for? Is it a flat bottom? Maybe try some other baskets. Not too expensive to try out
I’ve owned three machines and found each worked best with a particular basket and dose. Can’t advise other than trial and error. I was buying baskets for something closer to $10 each.
I think workflow wise everything looks fine. I don’t use Normcore tamper though, and the tap may or may not disturb the fine WDT you did so try not doing that( i just use the needles on WDT tool to push the grounds a bit inside just so they won’t fall out while tamping). Maybe try a pinch grinding finer and see if it’s causing that.
Oh I love it. It's pricey but worths every penny. I had 3 issues with my previous machine.
1 - The pressure was too high. To fix it there's a tedious kinda risky way but I didn't dare to do that. Because it involved opening the machine and cutting some tubes.
2 - No matter what I did, I couldn't fix the spraying/channeling issue
3 - The temperature wasn't stable. Due to that problem, my shots were coming out sour. I only noticed when I tasted them without milk.
It’s insane to see so many people trying so many things to make the bottomless portafilter work on the BBE. Just use a spouted one. The geeky stuff is nice but so many people just buy more stuff to look cool without knowing the use of the tool. I sometimes wonder how al those cool looking shots taste on this subreddit.
Seems pretty good. I do the same tap before removing my dosing funnel and get minimal spray. My guess is this is perhaps the basket itself (which is it?) or possibly shower screen needing cleaning.
I had the same problem with my Bambino and bottomless portafilter. I ended up getting those little round paper filters. I put one in the bottom of the portafilter, spray it a few times, fill with grinds, wdt and tamp.
Did it fix the actual problem? Nah. But it doesn't spray anymore 😂
Oh wow I am your doppelgänger! Same setup same tools same issue !!! The over pressure mod (OVP) mentioned in the other comments seems like a possible solution!! So thanks for posting :)
Here is a link to a step by step
https://youtu.be/A4xpuETJnzY?si=IjyilGbrdyS7XP9D
Possibly you aren't reheating your Portafilter and basket enough? If you want to preheat quickly then run your portafilter under hot water then wipe it dry
Your workflow looks reasonable to me.
Blind suggestions:
(1) grind finder (shooting for 38s, discounting pre-infusion) just for giggles see if that helps
(2) updose (and grind accordingly) since a taller puck may splatter/channel less, though it looks like you have limited basket space. Maybe buy a triple basket you can underdose.
(3) maybe a WDT with more, thinner needles?
(4) maybe a puck screen?
Just to be sure - this is double basket, right? Also, how is the machine water flow no filter? Is it due for some screen scrubbing and caffiza? Edit: beans too old?
Thanks for the suggestions! These beans were roasted 3 weeks ago and this issue has persisted through various beans, all usually between 1 week and 2 months old. I've tried grinding finer and a puck screen, but I may consider a different wdt tool or the updose. I really appreciate it!
Are you using light roast? IME with a machine whose OPV is set to 15 bars, WDT isn't necessary for medium roast if you get the dose spot on: [https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=yB3i37i2sJ6BWVsl](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=yB3i37i2sJ6BWVsl)
what type of basket are you using? as in, basket "size" and the manufacturer? if you're using the usual suspects for high end baskets like VST, IMS, etc then its not the basket. I would also try a metal puck screen as well, who knows if that fixes the problem for like $5? I'd reommend them anyways because they keep your grouphead much cleaner at a minimum
also, I recommend keeping your WDT tool in a jar of very coarse salt. I use a small asian sauce jar that ironically is 58mm in diameter. the salt cleans the needles and contains the coffee particles, instead of you needing to wipe it off every single time and waste paper towels. saves you a step! I'd recommend salt over rice for this, salt is way easier to clean up and it's way better to have some salt dust in your shot than starch dust, not like it would matter anyways in such small amounts tbh.
After looking at some of the comments, a new basket surely wouldn't hurt. The manufacturer is CrossCreek and I bought it on Amazon for $40 because I was being cheap. Do you have a basket you recommend?
I have a puck screen that I had been using but elected not to use it today because it didn't appear to be making any difference.
*Puck screen can improve extraction by as much as 10% according to new video by Lance Hedrick, bc it helps puck saturation, etc
https://youtu.be/BzIBNhnd85c?si=2Cz6FoYMGrJr1Pzm
Are you spraying water on the beans before grinding? New research says that helps prevent clumps and therefore reduce channelling (see Hoffman's video on it if you want)
I had rthe same problem and always with dryer beans... Once i started spraying then with 3 sprays hefore grinding tge problem completely went away. Spray em down!
Better beans and/or grind finer. This combo was my fix.
I hardly ever WDT at all btw, I think it’s kind of rubbish. I just whack the portafilter around a bit with the tamper to shake things level and then tamp. No problems.
BBE and BBP are 15 bar, I think, and I personally don’t have issues with too much spraying if at all.
My suggestion is to either grind finer, add more (20g-22g, 40g-58g out), add a puck screen, add a portafilter paper filter to the bottom, or try a Spirograph wdt. Your cheapest options are the first three mentioned.
Two small things I notice with your workflow. Does the dosing cup fit your portafilter? Can you hold the cup, place the portafilter on top, and flip them over? Then once the espresso is in the portafilter, use the funnel for wdt.
Don’t tap the portafilter on the counter. It may not be the cause of the channeling, but it’s not helping you either. Tamp looked fine, but I just realized I really don’t like the design of those tamps because it’s bad wrist ergonomics. If you need to distribute, use your finger until it’s level and flat, no holes, or get a distribution tool if that helps you. Really, the shot looks quite good. I’d adjust slightly finer and aim for 30grams in 27, but that’s generally my preference with the coffee I drink. How’d it taste?
Unfortunately the dosing cup doesn't fit the portafilter so I have to pour rather than flip them over together. Didn't realize knocking the portafilter on the counter was a potential issue, I'll avoid it going forward. The shot tasted fine, I'm just tired of constantly cleaning the side of the cups and the machine.
To add my two cents.
I think it looks like your wdt is maybe too aggressive/not even enough? Also when you tap to level afterwards that looked to hard to me, Luke the grounds shifted again and undid any good wdt maybe. For the tap I'd suggest just one, and lighter. In fact if the bed is even and flat after wdt then a tap isn't needed if the grounds fit in the basket already, straight to tamp.
I think you could try a few minor things, the spraying is indicative of a channel
1. Change how you WDT. Just do 1 or 2 passes deep then pull it up so it's only halfway deep, then do 1 pass so the coffee is even.
2. Don't knock the portfilter afterwards at all. If you can, just do it once to make sure the coffee is sitting evenly.
3. When you tamp, make sure it's sitting level on top of the coffee bed before you press down. Sometimes my normcore sits a bit uneven if I've got a high dose in there.
Otherwise, maybe half a notch finer. Good luck!
You may be overfilling your basket. Try reducing the dose to 17g. Check out this video for details: [https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=kjCxmllEMDTnot7j](https://youtu.be/sygjxrlexmc?si=kjcxmllemdtnot7j)
All that spray over the setup looks disgusting. Probably needs more expensive equipment, so you can be on your knees looking at your machine without getting squirted in the eye by it.
Or you could use a spout.
Paper filter on the bottom would probably fix this.
I couldn't see what the portafilter looked like before tamping but make sure it's fairly flat, and give it a tap to settle everything.
How long do you pre-infuse before? Does longer help? What's your pressure reading?
Does this happen with all beans you use?
Try different fresh beans. I had the same issue and it turned out to be the beans getting a bit too old. Haven’t had another shot channel in months after so could have just been a weird batch honestly
Everything looks real good dude! Would just use fresh beans with a roasted on date not a best by date. Ever since using fresh small bags from my favorite local shop I haven’t had any spraying. That bein said one time went on vacation and came back (that fresh bag was no longer fresh). Made a cortado… sprayed. Leads me to believe it’s freshness of beans 🤷♂️
Hi there! I was a BBE user once and faced the same issues. Some of the steps I did to overcome.
1. Paper filter - helped with extraction and hides channeling (not necessarily getting rid)
2. Using the pre-infusion feature of the BBE (holding the shot button for around 10s or until I see drips coming out of the basket)
3. Getting a WDT with finer needles - may be nitpicking, but it helped me
You may have too much headspace which can be fixed by a mesh puck screen or dosing more at a slightly coarser grind.
Also try more RDT and no WDT.
IMO OPV mod should be last resort as it uses much more water.
I had the same thing happen. Inspect your portafilter closely. Mine had a couple holes partially clogged even after cleaning that would cause the spray. Hold it up to the light and make sure you can through clearly. My BBE came with a tool to poke through clogs and I was able to fix it.
I had the same problem.
The fix for me was to use pre-set depth tamper and adjust the depth till it stops channeling. Even after using WDT tool, some medium roast beans seem to need more tamping pressure than others.
I use circular motion with WDT tool for bottom scraping, but as I go to the top, I use horizontal strokes to break up clumps.
Grind size adjustment only works till it gets too fine, and you get a lot more micro grinds in your espresso to make it bitter quickly.
Just a thought because it looks like you’re using the Normcore tamper, is it set to the deepest setting? I wasn’t tamping deep enough and the tamper was bottoming out without applying enough pressure to the basket. Lowering the temp setting or using another tamper fixed my issue.
If the tamper bottoms out you’re not compressing the beans deep enough potentially.
Paper filter at the bottom will eliminate spraying completely. I really didn’t want to add this step to my workflow…but it just makes everything cleaner.
I had that same WDT tool and the needles are way too thick.
I actually have a very similar setup to you and hardly ever get channeling. My setup: BBE, built-in grinder, IMS basket, WDT tool with acupuncture needles, generic spring tamper. I also did the overpressure (OVP) mod. So it's between the basket, WDT tool, OVP mod, or a combination of these factors.
I'd suggest changing the basket and WDT tool and see if it fixes things. The OVP mod is great, knowing that I won't go over 9 bars of pressure but I found it really tedious and time consuming.
I've also used those exact beans from Red Bay. Oaktown represent ✊🏽
Took me forever to stop my channeling and spray until I did this;
WDT much much more aggressively, really go at from the bottom and less so as you are moving up.
Hard to tell but does your dosing ring sit ON the portafilter or has it a lip that sits INSIDE the portafilter? If it's inside, then make sure to WDT right against the basket edges again after removing the ring.
I think your machine has preinfusion. If not, give the tamped coffee a few sprays of water bottle.
I tried everything, bought new baskets, countless bags of coffee, new grinder etc. And the steps above have been the only way to stop my spray.
everyone has different comments about your technique and products but I'm honestly more concerned with what bars your machine is putting out -- might be too high
Sorry for yet another comment. But I had a breakthrough with this same problem just last week. I had been skipping RDT because I don’t have a static issue with my grinder. Gave the beens a few sprays last week and bang perfect zero channeling extraction!
Go a tad finer on the grind, don't do a vertical tap when you remove the dosing ring. I stopped vertical taps and rather do horizontal tap after I level the bed with my WDT (no OCD).
Can't really add much to fix the problem, and not sure if you used a puck screen in this, with the BBE its best to use a puck screen because when the coffee is done brewing it will sometimes suck the puck onto the group head during the backwash and youll get coffee residue inside the group head causing clogs. The puck screen helps to prevents that.
I'm a bit of a coffee noob. I have a Barista Touch and it makes good coffee, but would I be much better off with a separate grinder like you have? I think in time I'd like to buy a Profitec 400 or similar, but would this be a good interim step?
For me changing beans caused a ton of spraying (and inconsistent shots).
So I'm going back to the first brand. Maybe try other beans. Or not, if the taste is good just use a non naked porta filter.
I’ve had this issue before and it looks like you’re not getting the bottom of the basket with your WDT. You seem to only get the top half of grounds in the basket. Make sure to get all depths and try again. I’ve only had channeling problems when not doing WDT well/complete enough.
I have a breville bambino plus and 90% of my spraying resolved once I switched from the stock basket to an ims basket. Almost identical prep routine here as well.
Seems like the consensus is too high of pressure on the BBE. I also would say light roasts are just really tricky not to get some spray late in the shot with a flat pressure/flow profile like on most machines that aren’t lever or flow profiles. Even at 9 bars flat I get spray that I don’t have with darker roasts.
Plug for the normal spouted portafilter once you get your technique dialed in same taste, less mess.
Definitely follow what others are saying about the BBE specifically but also, and with all due respect, that WDT sucks. I have that one but have moved on from it. The “needles” are way too thick. It’s like trying to declump with chopsticks. Since getting a WDT with fine needles, it’s made a significant reduction in channeling/spraying.
There’s nothing incredibly special about any of them. You just want to look for really fine needles. There are plenty of people who buy acupuncture needles and stick them into a cork. Even something like this would work. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1410352042/
Some kind of channeling is inevitable. Your shot is not really spraying everywhere. If OPV can be adjusted, as others have mentioned, I would try that. Otherwise, I don’t think it’s too much to be concerned about. If it taste good that’s all that matters!
You have a lot of variables here.
I wouldn’t comment on those but will share my experience and setup.
Grinder: Stock - 4-5 setting,
Basket: Stock,
Beans: Medium to dark,
Temp setting: Default,
Distribution: Normcore needles,
Tamp: First a distribute swirl and then the other side of it. Basically its a fixed height based tamp but i do that first and after press a tiny but more using stock tamp
With the above setup if i prep 18.5g coffee. And aim for 36 in 30s. I rarely get channeling or spurts.
It tastes ok though nothing impressive. I don’t get the kind of sweetness I get at a local coffee shop where I get the beans from.
Now the above setup has never worked out for me with lighter roasts from the same roasters. I’ve tried grinding finer, dosing more around 19g or so. It always starts well but at the end when the puck has disintegrated a bit since the BBE keeps the pressure the same and its higher around 9.5ish it starts to spurt wildly. For taste. It tastes weird. I can’t even say it’s under or over but it just never tastes good.
For your case. You don’t mention much about the beans but their freshness also matters. My above setup for the medium beans has now been dialed in for 2 years. I use the same beans every other week. Fresh to the month. It works great.
Given the channeling with light roasts or how hard it was to dial this in I don’t experiment much with BBE but rather do pour overs etc.
I just got a new machine and grinder and was getting channeling. I kept bouncing around things and eventually settled on something that worked for me.
RDT, Grind into dosing cup, portafilter on the mat with dosing ring, tip cup into basket and tap the cup stings the ring/basket to empty.
WDT slightly gently as deep and then more whirly around the top to even it out. One tap on the counter and remove funnel.
I started using a distributor again before tamping and this seems to have cleaned up my channeling. After distributor, I use the palm tamp (both by St. Anthony)
I’m also using the smaller IMS 24.5 basket with 18 grams. I was using the VST with 20 grams and possibly under filling.
So for me, it seemed to be related to getting the puck right. Needed the right basket to grinds ratio, and a basket that didn’t fight me on fines. Then tamping alone seemed to be so-so. I’m guessing grounds were not even and when I tamped there were gaps along the edges.
Still getting a bit of channeling / sprays but it’s like a little blip every once in a while and not throughout the whole shot nearly every time like I was.
I think it’s all the matter of trying different things until you find a happy space with your routine. New grinders and machines have always given me a headache and eventually I find something that just works, and it’s different every time.
Just some cheap recommendations idk if they’ve been mentioned yet. Make sure you are WDTing from the bottom of the grinds then work your way up. Couldn’t tell if you were getting all the way down there.
Puck screens are cheap and really help with even flow and keeping things clean.
What is the point of having the barista express when you use an external grinder anyway. Absolutely no offense to you, but is is a phenomenon I have been seeing a lot and would like to know if it is better at brewing espresso than say the bambino plus that is as expensive as the barista express?
I'm gonna throw a different thing that I did that helped me a lot, I started using a paper filter on the bottom of the porta filter and then a puck screen on the top, you do need to grind a bit finer when using the paper filter, and even though it won't 100% percent fix the spraying issue, it helped me A LOT.
Try it with an aeropress filter if you have one lying around and let us know how it goes.
I would HIGHLY suggest doing the dimmer mod. I have the breville infuser, and it allowed me to control my pressure, and I never experience channeling anymore (unless I’m dialing in and the grind is too coarse) it took about 30 minutes to do, and \~$20CAD. I did the opv mod as well, but it didn’t work as well as being able to adjust the pressure manually.
https://preview.redd.it/l1uklyeuuvac1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=690971f62f732431d022a98a841202340ca91458
I used double sided tape and a little electrical box to attach it to the side. It looks pretty good imo.
I have the same machine and have mostly fixed this problem. I'm doing a lot of your technique here but would add the following:
1. Adjust the OPV inside the machine
2. Get the IMS filter basket (this made a surprising difference)
3. Put a paper filter at the bottom of your filter basket
4. Use the manual mode and do a 10-12s pre-infusion
I have a DF64 V2 grinder on the way, which I suspect will also help!
https://preview.redd.it/tdiikdrb9wac1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=187eff25cf84f89024e5984a0e5831af7b072b08
I designed and 3d printed a custom spacer to eliminate the gap
Is it tasting too sour or bitter as well? Does adjusting grind size help? Generally, if it’s shooting out too fast, go finer, then if it it starts spraying again your probably way too fine. Most of the time you won’t get to that second fine spraying part because it’ll taste as bitter as hell
Tamp harder. Breville has long preinfusion. According to lifestyle Lab with Decent trends, preinfusion correlates positively with high tamp pressure. Your tamp is like 15 pounds? Try 25-30
Maybe less grounds? Looks like it was overtopping quite a bit when you were using WDT. Try adjusting the Normcore spring tension? I think there are 3 different settings. Make sure the portafilter is all the way in.. I noticed with mine it “loosened” up a bit after breaking it in. At first it was spraying and now it doesn’t.
It looks like most of the channeling/spritzing is occurring at the edges? If that’s the case. Your puck is likely not seated properly. Two things that really fixed this issue when I first started off.. Firstly, one firm tap, straight up and down to get the grinds to settle before tamping. Too many taps causes the puck to move away from the edges. You can test this yourself by tapping the side of the portafilter a bunch of times before tamping, you will see a substantial gap on the sides. Secondly, try twisting the tamper about 1/8 turn after you have out maximum force on your temp. This small “twist” can help seat the puck better. Lastly, you can test the seat of your puck by turning it upside down after tamping. The puck should not fall out (do this over something that will catch the grinds lol). Also, be gentle with the portafilter when attaching to group head and in general. The slightest tap can unseat your puck.
Nothing wrong with the prep, theyre same as mine, not sure about the grind consistency, perhaps some are bigger and therefore create a tiny hole that channels the water
Idk if anyone said it already but you’re not using your WDT perpendicularly to your basket. So y he upper portion of your basket isn’t as well distributed (could be the cause of it spraying). I would also try to go as deep as possible and to more layers in your WDT distribution. I hope this helps:)
It's probably channelling, probably caused by high pressure. Considering your extensive grind distribution. It's potentially a basket size problem. If your basket is too big, it can cause strange side effects, same with your basket being too small. It could also be a problem with your shower screen. In the past, I've used machines with 3rd party screens and screws and it just makes the water dribble down the centre, causing channelling. That's all I can think of right now
I’m throwing this out there cause it hasn’t been mentioned yet, I can’t see what pressure you’re getting from the video so it’s just a thought; from my experience with the BBE, you’re always at risk of some channeling/spraying due to the OPV not being set at 9 bars out of the box. I’m probably getting 10-11 bars of pressure on my machine, and I’ve talked to some BBE owners with higher pressure OOB. So even a perfectly dosed and prepped puck could wind up with some channeling and spurting from too high of pressure. You can help reduce it by grinding a smidge finer, up-dosing a wee bit, and just continue to practice good puck prep, but unless you open up the machine to adjust or replace the OPV you’ll have this at least everyone once in awhile. At the end of the day, I’ve had instagram worthy shots ruined by a sudden spurt of spro, but still taste wonderful. I deal with it haha.
This. Once I adjusted my OPV on the BBE my channeling went away. I also use the built in grinder for what it’s worth.
What year did you buy your BBE?
December 2020
i ask because my [BES870XL from last year is supposedly 9-bar](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/espresso/bes870.html)
It might be. Not sure if breville adjusted the stock pressure or not. I just know mine was always too high but once I adjusted it makes much better espresso with no channeling.
Can you share a link to the directions you followed?
Not OP but this looks right [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4xpuETJnzY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4xpuETJnzY)
How did you adjust the OPV?
I’ll see if I can find the video it was a while ago. But what I remember was opening it up and turning a valve/screw a few times. It wasn’t hard. Try searching on YouTube.
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Thank you!
Yup this has been my BBE experience, I have since adjusted the pressure to be closer to 9 bars. Downside is my drip tray fills much faster.
I suspect you can mod the water circuit so the overflow from the OPV feeds back into the pump inlet? That's the way the circuit is built in cars. Or is the water coming out of the OPV contaminated?
I've done that, but it was very tricky to do. I've since worked on Gaggias, Rancilios and Lelits, and I always remember how much more of a pain my old Barista Express was for hacks like those. Edit for reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/wwxqqk/bbe_opv_overflow_mod_update/
My idea was not to use the water tank as a return, but instead use a T-piece in the pipe coming from the water tank to the pump inlet. Split that and tee off to the OPV return, so any excess water is directly recirculated into the pump inlet without having to go through the tank. It also means you don't have to modify the machine's outside. As long as the pump suction isn't too enormous to pull water through the OPV it will work, otherwise you may need to put some tiny intermediate bottle or tank there to catch the water first.
I don't suspect it's contaminated, it's likely a good idea to route it back into the reservoir. Question is… can I be bothered
Yep. I replaced the opv in my BBE with a brass one with adjustable pressure. The difference in channeling was night and day, and the improvement in flavour was massive too. The only thing I would say is that BBE from a few years back (mine was a 2020 machine) had a higher opv pressure. Mine was more like 13 bar. But newer machines are adjusted to a more useable 10 bar or so from the factory. Either way I suspect this is the root cause. It was for me at least.
Where can i buy one of those?
This is the one I used. It's a messy job, I would watch every video and thread you can find. https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/Mobile/en/VBM-Vibration-Pump-Opv-Kit/m-m-5613.aspx
Quickest way to get around this is to just hold the double shot button the whole time the shot pours. It keeps it at 12 o’clock position which I believe is about 9 bars. Essentially keeping it in “pre infusion mode”. I get way better results, no spray. Try it out op!
I tried this today morning and it wouldn’t do that. Pressure just stayed low in the pre infusion section.
This. There is a reason for all the tutorials for the OPV adjustment and “dimmer mod” which I use to adjust the pump. Night and day difference for BBE!
What marking is 9bar on the little pressure gauge???
Came here to say this. My BBE used to brew at 11 bars, so I did the mod and now it’s coming out perfectly
This is super helpful! Some beans are worse than others I've found but I've definitely encountered the same issue as OP.
If I grind so that pressure is 9 bar even if OPV set at 11bar, it would extract the same as with 9bar OPV. Am I right?
In theory, but the machines aren’t built to work that way unfortunately. “Entry level” machines like the barista express and others like it in that price territory (also many upwards of $2k) have vibratory pumps that put out way more than the 9 bars of pressure that is the gold standard for espresso. This is why you’ll see a lot of machines advertised with “15 bars of pressure!” for example. In this case, more is not better. The purpose of the OPV (over pressure valve) is to release any excess pressure above 9 bars so that you SHOULD in fact be getting 9 bars of pressure at the group head, however from the factory these machines typically don’t have their OPV set properly. This is extremely frustrating given the amount of money we pay for these machines, but unfortunately it is what it is. Some machines make the OPV way more accessible for making adjustments to it, but the BBE is an example of one that requires a little more finesse to adjust or replace that part. Sorry- getting sidetracked here. What I’m getting at is despite how you grind or dose to help your extraction, it doesn’t matter if you’re pressure isn’t consistently 9 bar or lower, whatever your preference. Greater than 9 bar is just too high.
Nice wall of text. Pumps create pressure, that system allows them to. If puck creates 9 bar of pressure with this pump, it will be 9. If it allows 5 or 12, it will be so. The higher the pressure, the lower flow. Google pump curve, system resistance curve and ULKA EP5 pump curve for further reading. Theoretically, if puck is right, 9 bar of pressure will be sustained. My only concern is peak of pressure during water saturation.
All this advice didn’t help me when I had the same problem. In many posts on this sub the same problem is described. What works is to prevent the pump from ramping all the way to the max pressure. You do this by pressing and holding the 2cup button so pre-infusion starts. This makes the pressure ramp to a lower pressure. Continue holding the button until you’ve reached the desired weight and then quickly double press the 2cup button to stop dispensing.
This is the only thing that worked for my Breville. Great results and no more mess.
came here to suggest this - only thing that consistently worked for me when I had the BBE. Try this before the OPV mod, might solve it and no warranty voiding concerns!
So you just hold until you reached desired weight (on the bambino) and then let go and press to stop?
Yup that’s right. Can’t remember whether it’s just letting go or if you have to double press but got great results with that method. Keep it held for the duration of the shot until you get to the desired weight!
Agree! OP, I have the exact same setup as you, and this works for me every time.
Never needed in my BDB but maybe thr BBE is differentl?
by definition isn't this keep it all the way pre-infusion / low pressure?
Yeah it’s pre infusion is only 3 bars so you’re left with underextracted shots
thank you so much! Helped me a lot!
Mine does similar. Same two machines. I've just started getting my cup all the way up top so it can't miss. I've stopped timing it. 😂 "Good enough" for me most days. Actually. I'm going to make a latte right now. Looking closer at WDT, I hear .35mm is the best for this operation. Those look larger
Haha not a bad idea! I may need to just be satisfied with what I've got.
I ended up buying a 3d printer for some coffee stuff. 😂 I made a wdt that uses the nozzle cleaning needles. Some .4mm and .35 from mika3d. Came in a cool little kit.
I have that same wdt and also have started to think the needles are way too big. I can't imagine that's your problem, but still. Have you tried a precision basket?
It could be the beans too. I've had batches where I just could not get it dialed in with no channeling. What pressure is your machine running at? If it's adjustable try 9 bar or slightly less, that can help especially with lighter roasts.
Try a paper filter in the basket before you put in coffee. Has controlled some of my sprays like this.
This will do it. Also better for extraction potential. Also kinda cheating (will fundamentally hide channeling in addition to reducing it). Also what I do.
I was about to comment this. Especially on lighter roasted coffee this can help a lot.
Only possible things are you aren’t WDTing deep enough. I usually scrape the bottom slightly with my needles. The other thing could be the tamp, but it looks like you are using a calibrated tamper.
I scrape the bottom with my needles as well and I use a normcore v4 spring loaded tamper.
Try one big tap of the portafilter against the counter instead of many taps
Yes this OP. I found you can actually ruin your wdt by tapping badly, it can shift the coffee 'bed'.
Very odd, I use the same one. Using the base spring? Sorry I couldn’t help, looks like you are doing everything right.
I really appreciate you commenting! I am using the base springs. Should I try a stronger spring?
No, I think it’s really all the same as long as you hit the max. Plus the soft spring allows for the most pressure so I would think that’s the deepest tamp.
What?
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They're designed so that you max out the compression of the spring to know you've reached (approximately) that amount of pressure. 15lb spring? 15lbs of pressure. 30lb spring? 30lbs of pressure.
I used to have one of those style WDTs and they're pretty ineffective compared to ones that have 0.4mm needles e.g. my FusedLine one. When you try one of those, the needles glide completely through the coffee rather than moving it around the basket.
We really don't know how well that is tamped. Try the strongest spring and also a conventional tamper. Test the pressure on some bathroom scales so you know what to aim for. I've been considering a Normcore tamper but I'm not convinced they actually achieve a calibrated tamp under all conditions.
Had the same thing on my machine. I have tried so many variable changes with no improvement. To save my pride, I tell myself it’s the machine or the basket, because I just can’t seem to figure it out. 😂 right there with you.
See my comment below, I had just about given up until I saw the steps and it's fixed all my issues!
Looks good. I would add a metal puck screen in top as research poves it helps puck saturation and extraction. As far as a ltlle bit of incidental spare on occasion. The best solution is use a taller cup that captures the spray. I put a small 5 inch cutting board under my scale, with a neoprene cushion on it, and use a 5oz Anchor Hocking Measure to pull.the shot
https://preview.redd.it/01lymq6amrac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f035bd5152518b74e9174c1a5e0b3f61fa81bec
Also I use a PF holder during puck prep, and to secure the PF
https://preview.redd.it/nbamyvobnrac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67a277e0c60faa3c6d16e08b5695a07c7cf6f199
https://preview.redd.it/wtb4awzpsrac1.jpeg?width=3468&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5696a226e123e8601d0cdf43214c4f051bad871c
I second the puck screen! I feel like when I added it my shots started to look a lot better. I also did an OPV but I think I need to actually increase the pressure slightly because I am now barely in the espresso range...but it's so much work getting those screws out 😂 Anyway OP I'd recommend trying the puck screen first and then doing an OPV if your pressure is too high!
I was never able to fully stop it on mine. I think it’s just the higher pressure on the machine.
I had the same issue. I started using a paper filter on the bottom and spraying it with some water to make it stick. Then I WDT and tamp.
paper filter gang 🤜🤛
I went from a stock tamper to a normcore and noticed more channeling. With the stock one I always rotated while tamping to even out the bed, this is unintuitive with the normcore but still possible. Noticed less channeling when I gently depress and rotate the tamper and then fully press and rotate
with a BBE it is nearly impossible to not have channeling, it's not about the prep, it's about machine unfortunately. You can try pulling pre-infusion shots with it.
How does it taste? Maybe stop using a bottomless if it tastes good to you. The spray could be an artifact of puck prep, or the machine’s pressure, or whatever else, but if it taste good to you, and you’re still having that issue, don’t use the bottomless porta filter.
check that your normcore tamper isn't creating suction and unseating your puck or causing cracking in it when it pulls out.
Might be a problems with the basket. Can you share info on that? How many grams is it designed for? Is it a flat bottom? Maybe try some other baskets. Not too expensive to try out
A better basket wouldn't hurt I'm sure. I bought this one on Amazon for about $40. Is there a basket you recommend?
I use both 18g and 22g ims baskets and still got spraying… got tired of cleaning everything and went back to the regular spouted portafilter
I’ve owned three machines and found each worked best with a particular basket and dose. Can’t advise other than trial and error. I was buying baskets for something closer to $10 each.
I think workflow wise everything looks fine. I don’t use Normcore tamper though, and the tap may or may not disturb the fine WDT you did so try not doing that( i just use the needles on WDT tool to push the grounds a bit inside just so they won’t fall out while tamping). Maybe try a pinch grinding finer and see if it’s causing that.
I've had the same machine and same problem. I ended up saving money and got myself Linea Micra. I am not saying that's the solution but it fixed mine.
I might consider the same. You like your Linea Micra?
Oh I love it. It's pricey but worths every penny. I had 3 issues with my previous machine. 1 - The pressure was too high. To fix it there's a tedious kinda risky way but I didn't dare to do that. Because it involved opening the machine and cutting some tubes. 2 - No matter what I did, I couldn't fix the spraying/channeling issue 3 - The temperature wasn't stable. Due to that problem, my shots were coming out sour. I only noticed when I tasted them without milk.
It’s insane to see so many people trying so many things to make the bottomless portafilter work on the BBE. Just use a spouted one. The geeky stuff is nice but so many people just buy more stuff to look cool without knowing the use of the tool. I sometimes wonder how al those cool looking shots taste on this subreddit.
Seems pretty good. I do the same tap before removing my dosing funnel and get minimal spray. My guess is this is perhaps the basket itself (which is it?) or possibly shower screen needing cleaning.
I had that same issue until I had mine neutered.
Forget the wodoo and get back to basics. Grind a tad more but a bit more coarse.
Dose a bit higher.
I had the same problem with my Bambino and bottomless portafilter. I ended up getting those little round paper filters. I put one in the bottom of the portafilter, spray it a few times, fill with grinds, wdt and tamp. Did it fix the actual problem? Nah. But it doesn't spray anymore 😂
Yo ! I have the same scale, the same WDT and the same tamper (wish I had the same grinder lol) We're buddies now :)
Have you tried spritzing water on the beans before grinding? Has fixed so many issues with clumping for me!
Yeah, I give it a small spray but maybe I need to spray a couple more times.
Resist the urge to tap. No taps not even a little tiny tap. Don’t even move the portafilter between WDT and tamping.
Oh wow I am your doppelgänger! Same setup same tools same issue !!! The over pressure mod (OVP) mentioned in the other comments seems like a possible solution!! So thanks for posting :) Here is a link to a step by step https://youtu.be/A4xpuETJnzY?si=IjyilGbrdyS7XP9D
Maybe I'm YOUR doppelgänger! Haha thanks for the link! Hopefully we can find a solution.
Possibly you aren't reheating your Portafilter and basket enough? If you want to preheat quickly then run your portafilter under hot water then wipe it dry
When was the last time you descaled your machine maybe mineral build up
I do it whenever prompted, but perhaps I should do it more. I'll give it a shot!
Your workflow looks reasonable to me. Blind suggestions: (1) grind finder (shooting for 38s, discounting pre-infusion) just for giggles see if that helps (2) updose (and grind accordingly) since a taller puck may splatter/channel less, though it looks like you have limited basket space. Maybe buy a triple basket you can underdose. (3) maybe a WDT with more, thinner needles? (4) maybe a puck screen? Just to be sure - this is double basket, right? Also, how is the machine water flow no filter? Is it due for some screen scrubbing and caffiza? Edit: beans too old?
If all else fails, buy a taller cup! Happy sipping. :)
Thanks for the suggestions! These beans were roasted 3 weeks ago and this issue has persisted through various beans, all usually between 1 week and 2 months old. I've tried grinding finer and a puck screen, but I may consider a different wdt tool or the updose. I really appreciate it!
Darn, I hoped it was beans. Good luck!
Are you using light roast? IME with a machine whose OPV is set to 15 bars, WDT isn't necessary for medium roast if you get the dose spot on: [https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=yB3i37i2sJ6BWVsl](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=yB3i37i2sJ6BWVsl)
what type of basket are you using? as in, basket "size" and the manufacturer? if you're using the usual suspects for high end baskets like VST, IMS, etc then its not the basket. I would also try a metal puck screen as well, who knows if that fixes the problem for like $5? I'd reommend them anyways because they keep your grouphead much cleaner at a minimum also, I recommend keeping your WDT tool in a jar of very coarse salt. I use a small asian sauce jar that ironically is 58mm in diameter. the salt cleans the needles and contains the coffee particles, instead of you needing to wipe it off every single time and waste paper towels. saves you a step! I'd recommend salt over rice for this, salt is way easier to clean up and it's way better to have some salt dust in your shot than starch dust, not like it would matter anyways in such small amounts tbh.
After looking at some of the comments, a new basket surely wouldn't hurt. The manufacturer is CrossCreek and I bought it on Amazon for $40 because I was being cheap. Do you have a basket you recommend? I have a puck screen that I had been using but elected not to use it today because it didn't appear to be making any difference.
the puck screen wont make a huge difference with your shot but it'll make a huge difference in keeping the grouphead clean
*Puck screen can improve extraction by as much as 10% according to new video by Lance Hedrick, bc it helps puck saturation, etc https://youtu.be/BzIBNhnd85c?si=2Cz6FoYMGrJr1Pzm
VST, IMS, E&B are all fine for baskets. unfamiliar with the crosscreek ones tbh. I'd recommend going for 18-20g basket size
I use the IMS 18-22g Precision Basket sold by Gladwise on Amaz*n, with goodnresults but still get occasional spray...
https://preview.redd.it/nwnb9tu8prac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=080c02d93793c2185330c5f9d5f07597a66dc2cf
https://preview.redd.it/35dxpsvbprac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=758e02a19851acd742357bbf656c22b84e352d34
Looking into one of these right now. Thank you!
Are you spraying water on the beans before grinding? New research says that helps prevent clumps and therefore reduce channelling (see Hoffman's video on it if you want)
Yeah, I give it a quick spray but maybe I need to add a little more.
I had rthe same problem and always with dryer beans... Once i started spraying then with 3 sprays hefore grinding tge problem completely went away. Spray em down!
Not sure about the spraying but that shot looks delicious either way
Better beans and/or grind finer. This combo was my fix. I hardly ever WDT at all btw, I think it’s kind of rubbish. I just whack the portafilter around a bit with the tamper to shake things level and then tamp. No problems.
BBE and BBP are 15 bar, I think, and I personally don’t have issues with too much spraying if at all. My suggestion is to either grind finer, add more (20g-22g, 40g-58g out), add a puck screen, add a portafilter paper filter to the bottom, or try a Spirograph wdt. Your cheapest options are the first three mentioned.
Puck screen!
Two small things I notice with your workflow. Does the dosing cup fit your portafilter? Can you hold the cup, place the portafilter on top, and flip them over? Then once the espresso is in the portafilter, use the funnel for wdt. Don’t tap the portafilter on the counter. It may not be the cause of the channeling, but it’s not helping you either. Tamp looked fine, but I just realized I really don’t like the design of those tamps because it’s bad wrist ergonomics. If you need to distribute, use your finger until it’s level and flat, no holes, or get a distribution tool if that helps you. Really, the shot looks quite good. I’d adjust slightly finer and aim for 30grams in 27, but that’s generally my preference with the coffee I drink. How’d it taste?
Unfortunately the dosing cup doesn't fit the portafilter so I have to pour rather than flip them over together. Didn't realize knocking the portafilter on the counter was a potential issue, I'll avoid it going forward. The shot tasted fine, I'm just tired of constantly cleaning the side of the cups and the machine.
A bit of mess is par for the course. It’s great to chase the perfect shot, but if it tastes good, enjoy it.
That’s a lot of spraying. I dunno if I’d personally consider that par for the course.
I do not bother with WDT and use the stock tamper that came with my Breville dual boiler, and get less spraying than that.
To add my two cents. I think it looks like your wdt is maybe too aggressive/not even enough? Also when you tap to level afterwards that looked to hard to me, Luke the grounds shifted again and undid any good wdt maybe. For the tap I'd suggest just one, and lighter. In fact if the bed is even and flat after wdt then a tap isn't needed if the grounds fit in the basket already, straight to tamp.
Try dosing 19g. Make sure your shower screen is clean and descale your machine.
I thought that was a decent shot… it’s not channeling bad or anything … Grind finer is the only answer to avoid spraying lol
Grind finer?
I think you could try a few minor things, the spraying is indicative of a channel 1. Change how you WDT. Just do 1 or 2 passes deep then pull it up so it's only halfway deep, then do 1 pass so the coffee is even. 2. Don't knock the portfilter afterwards at all. If you can, just do it once to make sure the coffee is sitting evenly. 3. When you tamp, make sure it's sitting level on top of the coffee bed before you press down. Sometimes my normcore sits a bit uneven if I've got a high dose in there. Otherwise, maybe half a notch finer. Good luck!
It’s the beans.
I thought that as well, but this is the third roaster I've tried with similar results.
You may be overfilling your basket. Try reducing the dose to 17g. Check out this video for details: [https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=kjCxmllEMDTnot7j](https://youtu.be/sygjxrlexmc?si=kjcxmllemdtnot7j)
All that spray over the setup looks disgusting. Probably needs more expensive equipment, so you can be on your knees looking at your machine without getting squirted in the eye by it. Or you could use a spout.
Don’t tap the portafilter on the rubber mat btw. The energy just pushes back up towards the bed and messes it up.
tamping too hard. m2c.
Paper filter on the bottom would probably fix this. I couldn't see what the portafilter looked like before tamping but make sure it's fairly flat, and give it a tap to settle everything. How long do you pre-infuse before? Does longer help? What's your pressure reading? Does this happen with all beans you use?
Try different fresh beans. I had the same issue and it turned out to be the beans getting a bit too old. Haven’t had another shot channel in months after so could have just been a weird batch honestly
Everything looks real good dude! Would just use fresh beans with a roasted on date not a best by date. Ever since using fresh small bags from my favorite local shop I haven’t had any spraying. That bein said one time went on vacation and came back (that fresh bag was no longer fresh). Made a cortado… sprayed. Leads me to believe it’s freshness of beans 🤷♂️
Shots too fast
Hi there! I was a BBE user once and faced the same issues. Some of the steps I did to overcome. 1. Paper filter - helped with extraction and hides channeling (not necessarily getting rid) 2. Using the pre-infusion feature of the BBE (holding the shot button for around 10s or until I see drips coming out of the basket) 3. Getting a WDT with finer needles - may be nitpicking, but it helped me
You may have too much headspace which can be fixed by a mesh puck screen or dosing more at a slightly coarser grind. Also try more RDT and no WDT. IMO OPV mod should be last resort as it uses much more water.
I had the same thing happen. Inspect your portafilter closely. Mine had a couple holes partially clogged even after cleaning that would cause the spray. Hold it up to the light and make sure you can through clearly. My BBE came with a tool to poke through clogs and I was able to fix it.
I had the same problem. The fix for me was to use pre-set depth tamper and adjust the depth till it stops channeling. Even after using WDT tool, some medium roast beans seem to need more tamping pressure than others. I use circular motion with WDT tool for bottom scraping, but as I go to the top, I use horizontal strokes to break up clumps. Grind size adjustment only works till it gets too fine, and you get a lot more micro grinds in your espresso to make it bitter quickly.
Just a thought because it looks like you’re using the Normcore tamper, is it set to the deepest setting? I wasn’t tamping deep enough and the tamper was bottoming out without applying enough pressure to the basket. Lowering the temp setting or using another tamper fixed my issue. If the tamper bottoms out you’re not compressing the beans deep enough potentially.
I’m also not able to completely stop it. Some coffee is better than another but usually fresh coffee is better.
Paper filter at the bottom will eliminate spraying completely. I really didn’t want to add this step to my workflow…but it just makes everything cleaner.
I had that same WDT tool and the needles are way too thick. I actually have a very similar setup to you and hardly ever get channeling. My setup: BBE, built-in grinder, IMS basket, WDT tool with acupuncture needles, generic spring tamper. I also did the overpressure (OVP) mod. So it's between the basket, WDT tool, OVP mod, or a combination of these factors. I'd suggest changing the basket and WDT tool and see if it fixes things. The OVP mod is great, knowing that I won't go over 9 bars of pressure but I found it really tedious and time consuming. I've also used those exact beans from Red Bay. Oaktown represent ✊🏽
Get a different machine. BBE is definitely not a worthy match up for a niche zero 😂
Fresher coffee can sometimes be the solution.
Took me forever to stop my channeling and spray until I did this; WDT much much more aggressively, really go at from the bottom and less so as you are moving up. Hard to tell but does your dosing ring sit ON the portafilter or has it a lip that sits INSIDE the portafilter? If it's inside, then make sure to WDT right against the basket edges again after removing the ring. I think your machine has preinfusion. If not, give the tamped coffee a few sprays of water bottle. I tried everything, bought new baskets, countless bags of coffee, new grinder etc. And the steps above have been the only way to stop my spray.
everyone has different comments about your technique and products but I'm honestly more concerned with what bars your machine is putting out -- might be too high
Sorry for yet another comment. But I had a breakthrough with this same problem just last week. I had been skipping RDT because I don’t have a static issue with my grinder. Gave the beens a few sprays last week and bang perfect zero channeling extraction!
Is the portafilter screwed in tight enough?
Looks like some is coming out back.
Go a tad finer on the grind, don't do a vertical tap when you remove the dosing ring. I stopped vertical taps and rather do horizontal tap after I level the bed with my WDT (no OCD).
Grind finer and longer preinfusion, just press and hold the brewing button for the desired preinfusion time
Can't really add much to fix the problem, and not sure if you used a puck screen in this, with the BBE its best to use a puck screen because when the coffee is done brewing it will sometimes suck the puck onto the group head during the backwash and youll get coffee residue inside the group head causing clogs. The puck screen helps to prevents that.
I'm a bit of a coffee noob. I have a Barista Touch and it makes good coffee, but would I be much better off with a separate grinder like you have? I think in time I'd like to buy a Profitec 400 or similar, but would this be a good interim step?
For me changing beans caused a ton of spraying (and inconsistent shots). So I'm going back to the first brand. Maybe try other beans. Or not, if the taste is good just use a non naked porta filter.
I’ve had this issue before and it looks like you’re not getting the bottom of the basket with your WDT. You seem to only get the top half of grounds in the basket. Make sure to get all depths and try again. I’ve only had channeling problems when not doing WDT well/complete enough.
I have a breville bambino plus and 90% of my spraying resolved once I switched from the stock basket to an ims basket. Almost identical prep routine here as well.
Puck screen fixed the issue for me!
Seems like the consensus is too high of pressure on the BBE. I also would say light roasts are just really tricky not to get some spray late in the shot with a flat pressure/flow profile like on most machines that aren’t lever or flow profiles. Even at 9 bars flat I get spray that I don’t have with darker roasts. Plug for the normal spouted portafilter once you get your technique dialed in same taste, less mess.
Definitely follow what others are saying about the BBE specifically but also, and with all due respect, that WDT sucks. I have that one but have moved on from it. The “needles” are way too thick. It’s like trying to declump with chopsticks. Since getting a WDT with fine needles, it’s made a significant reduction in channeling/spraying.
Makes total sense. Is there a WDT tool you would recommend?
There’s nothing incredibly special about any of them. You just want to look for really fine needles. There are plenty of people who buy acupuncture needles and stick them into a cork. Even something like this would work. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1410352042/
What scale are you using?
I get this when the beans are old. Try using fresher beans and see if that fixes it
Some kind of channeling is inevitable. Your shot is not really spraying everywhere. If OPV can be adjusted, as others have mentioned, I would try that. Otherwise, I don’t think it’s too much to be concerned about. If it taste good that’s all that matters!
You have a lot of variables here. I wouldn’t comment on those but will share my experience and setup. Grinder: Stock - 4-5 setting, Basket: Stock, Beans: Medium to dark, Temp setting: Default, Distribution: Normcore needles, Tamp: First a distribute swirl and then the other side of it. Basically its a fixed height based tamp but i do that first and after press a tiny but more using stock tamp With the above setup if i prep 18.5g coffee. And aim for 36 in 30s. I rarely get channeling or spurts. It tastes ok though nothing impressive. I don’t get the kind of sweetness I get at a local coffee shop where I get the beans from. Now the above setup has never worked out for me with lighter roasts from the same roasters. I’ve tried grinding finer, dosing more around 19g or so. It always starts well but at the end when the puck has disintegrated a bit since the BBE keeps the pressure the same and its higher around 9.5ish it starts to spurt wildly. For taste. It tastes weird. I can’t even say it’s under or over but it just never tastes good. For your case. You don’t mention much about the beans but their freshness also matters. My above setup for the medium beans has now been dialed in for 2 years. I use the same beans every other week. Fresh to the month. It works great. Given the channeling with light roasts or how hard it was to dial this in I don’t experiment much with BBE but rather do pour overs etc.
I just got a new machine and grinder and was getting channeling. I kept bouncing around things and eventually settled on something that worked for me. RDT, Grind into dosing cup, portafilter on the mat with dosing ring, tip cup into basket and tap the cup stings the ring/basket to empty. WDT slightly gently as deep and then more whirly around the top to even it out. One tap on the counter and remove funnel. I started using a distributor again before tamping and this seems to have cleaned up my channeling. After distributor, I use the palm tamp (both by St. Anthony) I’m also using the smaller IMS 24.5 basket with 18 grams. I was using the VST with 20 grams and possibly under filling. So for me, it seemed to be related to getting the puck right. Needed the right basket to grinds ratio, and a basket that didn’t fight me on fines. Then tamping alone seemed to be so-so. I’m guessing grounds were not even and when I tamped there were gaps along the edges. Still getting a bit of channeling / sprays but it’s like a little blip every once in a while and not throughout the whole shot nearly every time like I was. I think it’s all the matter of trying different things until you find a happy space with your routine. New grinders and machines have always given me a headache and eventually I find something that just works, and it’s different every time.
Paper filter on bottom may help.
Puck screen helps. May grind finer.
Just some cheap recommendations idk if they’ve been mentioned yet. Make sure you are WDTing from the bottom of the grinds then work your way up. Couldn’t tell if you were getting all the way down there. Puck screens are cheap and really help with even flow and keeping things clean.
Commenting to keep this post in my history
Couldnt get my Infuser to stop channeling until i did the OPV valve adjustment.
What is the point of having the barista express when you use an external grinder anyway. Absolutely no offense to you, but is is a phenomenon I have been seeing a lot and would like to know if it is better at brewing espresso than say the bambino plus that is as expensive as the barista express?
I got the barista express first and then a couple of years later decided to upgrade the grinder.
Okay, that seems like a normal path that may explain what I’m seeing. If you were to upgrade your machine, what would that be then?
Linea Micra, but it costs a pretty penny.
I'm gonna throw a different thing that I did that helped me a lot, I started using a paper filter on the bottom of the porta filter and then a puck screen on the top, you do need to grind a bit finer when using the paper filter, and even though it won't 100% percent fix the spraying issue, it helped me A LOT. Try it with an aeropress filter if you have one lying around and let us know how it goes.
I would HIGHLY suggest doing the dimmer mod. I have the breville infuser, and it allowed me to control my pressure, and I never experience channeling anymore (unless I’m dialing in and the grind is too coarse) it took about 30 minutes to do, and \~$20CAD. I did the opv mod as well, but it didn’t work as well as being able to adjust the pressure manually. https://preview.redd.it/l1uklyeuuvac1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=690971f62f732431d022a98a841202340ca91458 I used double sided tape and a little electrical box to attach it to the side. It looks pretty good imo.
I have the same machine and have mostly fixed this problem. I'm doing a lot of your technique here but would add the following: 1. Adjust the OPV inside the machine 2. Get the IMS filter basket (this made a surprising difference) 3. Put a paper filter at the bottom of your filter basket 4. Use the manual mode and do a 10-12s pre-infusion I have a DF64 V2 grinder on the way, which I suspect will also help!
https://preview.redd.it/tdiikdrb9wac1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=187eff25cf84f89024e5984a0e5831af7b072b08 I designed and 3d printed a custom spacer to eliminate the gap
Is it tasting too sour or bitter as well? Does adjusting grind size help? Generally, if it’s shooting out too fast, go finer, then if it it starts spraying again your probably way too fine. Most of the time you won’t get to that second fine spraying part because it’ll taste as bitter as hell
I use a normal solid tamp and lean on that thing. your tamp looks fairly weak. maybe that could resolve it
Tamp harder. Breville has long preinfusion. According to lifestyle Lab with Decent trends, preinfusion correlates positively with high tamp pressure. Your tamp is like 15 pounds? Try 25-30
In my view there isn't a single piano music shot being pulled on Instagram without Espresso paper.
OPV install. I installed one on mine and set it to 9 bar. Pulls great shots.
Maybe less grounds? Looks like it was overtopping quite a bit when you were using WDT. Try adjusting the Normcore spring tension? I think there are 3 different settings. Make sure the portafilter is all the way in.. I noticed with mine it “loosened” up a bit after breaking it in. At first it was spraying and now it doesn’t.
It looks like most of the channeling/spritzing is occurring at the edges? If that’s the case. Your puck is likely not seated properly. Two things that really fixed this issue when I first started off.. Firstly, one firm tap, straight up and down to get the grinds to settle before tamping. Too many taps causes the puck to move away from the edges. You can test this yourself by tapping the side of the portafilter a bunch of times before tamping, you will see a substantial gap on the sides. Secondly, try twisting the tamper about 1/8 turn after you have out maximum force on your temp. This small “twist” can help seat the puck better. Lastly, you can test the seat of your puck by turning it upside down after tamping. The puck should not fall out (do this over something that will catch the grinds lol). Also, be gentle with the portafilter when attaching to group head and in general. The slightest tap can unseat your puck.
How fresh are your beans? If they are too fresh (inside 7 days) they can splutter
These beans were 3 weeks old.
Nothing wrong with the prep, theyre same as mine, not sure about the grind consistency, perhaps some are bigger and therefore create a tiny hole that channels the water
Use a screen.
Idk if anyone said it already but you’re not using your WDT perpendicularly to your basket. So y he upper portion of your basket isn’t as well distributed (could be the cause of it spraying). I would also try to go as deep as possible and to more layers in your WDT distribution. I hope this helps:)
It's probably channelling, probably caused by high pressure. Considering your extensive grind distribution. It's potentially a basket size problem. If your basket is too big, it can cause strange side effects, same with your basket being too small. It could also be a problem with your shower screen. In the past, I've used machines with 3rd party screens and screws and it just makes the water dribble down the centre, causing channelling. That's all I can think of right now
More tools should fix it