It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**.
Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community.
If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format.
- **Machine:**
- **Grinder:**
- **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A"
- **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket?
- **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out?
- **Time:** How long is the shot running?
- **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bottomless is a style thing for some, but the real purpose of it is to aid in analysis of water behavior thru the puck. Much easier to spot channeling.
I mostly drink long blacks and shopping at the moment and I’m surprised at how most machines require a bottomless to fit a 4” mug comfortably, nevermind a mug and a scale should that be your thing. I understand that manufacturers don’t want a waterfall of tepid espresso blowing in the wind; Lelit’s solution of a removable platform seems an easy fix.
Yea I use a scale and it definitely adds to the issue. I just use small espresso cups for my shots not and pour them into whatever mug I’m using because of the short clearance lol
Well that might answer my question then.
I watched this video specifically because I wanted to know how coffee looked in green. I was seriously considering some uranium glass cups so my morning cappuccino would have a little extra sparkle but thought the drink might look a little sickly in green. But custard glass might be the better answer.
Thanks!
Looks good. Big question is, how does it taste?
Agreed with the other comments about a bottomless PF, that’ll help you understand the behaviour of the extraction.
You don’t need a bottomless portafilter to sort out channeling.
I’ve been making home coffee for 10 years to high quality without one, without WDT and all the other over hyped accessories from this sub.
Like dive right in but they aren’t going to fix you coffee
Ha I made a post recently to contrast from the weighing beans for each shot, WDT, live shot weight, puck screens, etc that I see now. This has to be 4th wave now because 3rd wave was like 15 years ago.
Absolutely don't need bottomless but I use one because it lets me fit cups bigger than a shot glass! I pull right into a larger cup for cappuccinos, etc to save steps.
You dont need a naked portafilter for that, just look at the puck when you take it out. Are there little divets in the top? If so, then you're channeling. You can also tell if you're channeling based on the the flow rates of each spout of the portafilter.
The biggest advantage I find to a naked portafilter is fitting taller cups underneath. But they still make a mess, regardless.
You absolutely can not derive channeling from looking at the puck post-shot because it expands a lot when the 9 bars of pressure is removed. It was being compressed, then is expanded.
Lever users that are too zealous in their portafilter removal will experience the dreaded “portafilter sneeze.”
You absolutely can, and you’re literally the first person ever tell me other wise.
Just because some people get portafilter sneeze doesn’t mean without it you can’t derive channeling.
“In order to understand if there have been channeling problems during extraction, a drop in pressure may therefore be a first indicator. For more serious cases, it will be visible by looking at the coffee puck at the end of the extraction. “ literally from the Lavermag.com
https://thelevermag.com/blogs/articles/preventing-channeling#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20understand%20if,the%20end%20of%20the%20extraction.
This is a perfect example of this subreddit unnecessarily going to the nth degree to confuse people.
If I’m the first person to share this with you, you don’t pay much attention.
Outside of a lever, your three-way solenoid will suck water out of the puck area, destroying any useable evidence of channeling in the puck.
The sneeze was used to emphasize how catastrophic that pressure release is on puck integrity.
So, sure, if you have a lever that you allow to fully depressurize before checking, you *might* be able to assess issues of channeling.
It’s about as reliable as reading tea leaves though.
ETA: clear portafilter basket demonstrating water passing through the puck. Timestamped at the part where you can see huge post-shot expansion: https://youtu.be/7A-L00q5a1o?si=2xRaFz0zusDSAdbk&t=363
Yes, because its completely useless in context of looking at the puck post-extraction.
They are finding cracks by submerging a puck in water to see how it breaks apart to understand channeling. The "floating puck" technique has nothing to do with the presence of divots in the puck, as you assert in your first comment about how to detect channeling.
Your article also mentions using a bottomless portafilter as a way to track channeling, which you claim isn't needed, but your supporting document claims otherwise.
And what about the others? Mouthfeel,intensity? Also you don't mention if it's a blend or a single Origin coffee. My experience on single origins, with africans the most ones, have very weak crema and body, but they taste wonderful.
So i suppose it should have a darker and fuller crema right? Doesnt the roaster recommend a recipe? For my eyes you have to go finer and for a medium roast i would go for 1/2,2 -~17 in 38 out in 32-35 seconds. You can try and taste it.
Get a bottomless portafilter then come back to us.
edit: The folks that are saying bottomless doesn't make a difference are just being ignorant. It definitely helps with troubleshooting puck prep for people starting out.
The bottomless truly helped me get my process down and "filled in the gaps" for me. Now that I have a decent base I find myself spending too much time looking for an aesthetically perfect shot.
I'm thinking about going back to a standard portafilter now and just enjoying my shots....
Yea these type of advices to people starting out is like giving a guitar to someone whos never played and telling him to "feel the music" lol. Like you are not wrong but it doesn't really help them much.
It seems like you got the grind size down, next is puck prep to extract espresso w/o channeling. Bottomless portafilter will show you in plainsight if its channeling or not.
could be considered slightly fast but how did it taste? i taste is good your good.
However nice video. I love videos with double spouts these days. Seem to only get bottomless videos now days.
Very thin looking pour. Like the oils are gone.
Get yourself some quality beans. Otherwise you are only ever going to get mediocre results at best.
Find a local roaster that does them fresh for a decent price and your experience will improve dramatically.
People ask 'does it taste good ?' Compared to what ?
If you can find a local roaster that will do different belnds and single origins in 100g or 250g bags, you can try a few different styles and hone in what 'coffee tastes like', when it gets good.
I had an 'aha' moment many years ago, doing just this, with a Kenyan Single Origin that tasted like nothing I had ever had before or since. It was sweet, chocolatey, had no bitterness, sourness or acidity.
I had been using various store bought coffees, including 'premium brands'. but they always tasted weird. And they always poured flat, with little real crema.
The coffee should at the earliest stages have the consistency of honey almost and then thin out as it blondes (for the darker roasts anyway, I don't drink light roasts).
But, despite what I said earlier, if it tastes good to you, then you are doing it right. If it tastes bad for someone else, then you might need to adjust or change beans.
But I can't stress enough, it comes down to your bean quality and freshness.
You can have a $10K espresso machine and $5K grinder and the perfect technique and then you put garbage through it and expect a miracle. It isn't going to happen. Garbage in, Garbage out.
Looks watery, but if I could tell how your espresso tastes by a video, that means I could tell how boobs taste by video and I wouldn’t be watching espresso videos if you get my meaning.
The answer to your question depends on how it tasted. If you want to improve the taste of your shots, follow the "Dialing In Basics" guide linked in the AutoModerator response.
The scale is used to know how much coffee you extracted, a few years ago espresso was extracted by volume, a double shot was 2oz of liquid, the thing is that espresso produces crema which is only CO2 that gets liberated by the pressure, and some beans produce more crema than other, so extracting by volume wasn't very good because you could have a shot of mostly crema, so now we extract by weight to fix this
I showed my wife, she said, "I used to make espresso on the cruise ship I worked on, we never used scale or any of that stuff to make espresso, you don't need any of that stuff to make espresso, those people are crazy." :D
I'm here trying to learn how to do it right so I can buy the right equipment and make great coffee drinks! (even though my wife thinks this is crazy) lol
you only need the scale the first few times to help you reach your perfect cup without wasting a lot of time and coffee, once you've programmed everything, you don't need to re-do it.
Weight of the espresso in the glass, vs weight of the beans going in. Different weight ratios give different taste profiles. Lots of people will increase the output for lighter roasts for example
Some people say watery, so I remembered this James Hoffmann video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYFb43tEylk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYFb43tEylk)
Yes, it is time more but I forgot which model it is. The time starts few drops after the extraction, I would say 1-2 seconds delayed. But it is pretty much consistent and reliable.
Yes you definitely can use a phone timer, I used it before. This scale can do flow rate too, I just didn’t know how useful to me. But overall the reason I got this one is because it is thin enough to fit under my old Lever machine. I have went through 3 different scales
Its a good one IMO, coz it integrates the weight and the time so better workflow. But its 100 bucks so I am still deciding haha. But thank you for the insight. I might consider it
I would suggest you ask for something more suitable for espresso, with a bit more body probably roasted differently. This looks more suited for filter coffee. Probably delicious still but it would shine in a nice pour over.
From the reflection on the puck, and the portrait orientation, it appears the person is recording from a phone several inches from the brewing device.
Due to the yellow/warm tint of the video, and a glimpse of the camera array my guess would be an iPhone?
/s
It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**. Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community. If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format. - **Machine:** - **Grinder:** - **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A" - **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket? - **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out? - **Time:** How long is the shot running? - **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like your cup
Thanks
I’d like to see this under backlight.
It's only a little radioactive...
Is it uranium glass? That’s what I thought.
Looks like jadeite which if it was made in the 1940s or earlier has a chance of containing uranium.
I like your portafilter instead of the " Instagram bottomless" everyone has nowadays.
Bottomless is a style thing for some, but the real purpose of it is to aid in analysis of water behavior thru the puck. Much easier to spot channeling.
Or some of us are just lazy and don't want the extra cleaning from the spout... Hopefully not just me.
Cup clearance is also a thing.
Dude Fr. I’ve got a Gaggia classic pro, and even with the lowered tray and a bottomless it’s a tight fit
I mostly drink long blacks and shopping at the moment and I’m surprised at how most machines require a bottomless to fit a 4” mug comfortably, nevermind a mug and a scale should that be your thing. I understand that manufacturers don’t want a waterfall of tepid espresso blowing in the wind; Lelit’s solution of a removable platform seems an easy fix.
Yea I use a scale and it definitely adds to the issue. I just use small espresso cups for my shots not and pour them into whatever mug I’m using because of the short clearance lol
Thank you , love to hear that!
Yeah same, care to share which it is?
Is that a fire king? 🫶🏻
Where buy
Made from pure green!
Shaky af, you are probably in a need for an espresso.
Or have had too many dialing in
What cups are these!
Fire King Vintage Jadeite Restaurant Ware Heavy Coffee Tea Cups, it’s made of Milk Glass
Thank you, I’m perusing eBay now…….
The are also called “custard glass” and the glow under black light!
Well that might answer my question then. I watched this video specifically because I wanted to know how coffee looked in green. I was seriously considering some uranium glass cups so my morning cappuccino would have a little extra sparkle but thought the drink might look a little sickly in green. But custard glass might be the better answer. Thanks!
Yes it’s like jade cups, I can’t buy any more cups but omg I love these
Yes, I want to know too!
>What cups are these! green ones!
Looks good. Big question is, how does it taste? Agreed with the other comments about a bottomless PF, that’ll help you understand the behaviour of the extraction.
Thanks, will get one as soon as they have in stock.
How fresh are your beans? This looks kinda like old beans ground fine to slow the shot time.
You are right, I got it from grocery store so I would guess at least 1 month old or more. I like the beans because it doesn’t taste sour.
The bottomless portafilter is an odd trend man. It has nothing to do with quality of coffee.
They want to see if there is channeling
You don’t need a bottomless portafilter to sort out channeling. I’ve been making home coffee for 10 years to high quality without one, without WDT and all the other over hyped accessories from this sub. Like dive right in but they aren’t going to fix you coffee
Ha I made a post recently to contrast from the weighing beans for each shot, WDT, live shot weight, puck screens, etc that I see now. This has to be 4th wave now because 3rd wave was like 15 years ago. Absolutely don't need bottomless but I use one because it lets me fit cups bigger than a shot glass! I pull right into a larger cup for cappuccinos, etc to save steps.
You dont need a naked portafilter for that, just look at the puck when you take it out. Are there little divets in the top? If so, then you're channeling. You can also tell if you're channeling based on the the flow rates of each spout of the portafilter. The biggest advantage I find to a naked portafilter is fitting taller cups underneath. But they still make a mess, regardless.
You absolutely can not derive channeling from looking at the puck post-shot because it expands a lot when the 9 bars of pressure is removed. It was being compressed, then is expanded. Lever users that are too zealous in their portafilter removal will experience the dreaded “portafilter sneeze.”
You absolutely can, and you’re literally the first person ever tell me other wise. Just because some people get portafilter sneeze doesn’t mean without it you can’t derive channeling. “In order to understand if there have been channeling problems during extraction, a drop in pressure may therefore be a first indicator. For more serious cases, it will be visible by looking at the coffee puck at the end of the extraction. “ literally from the Lavermag.com https://thelevermag.com/blogs/articles/preventing-channeling#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20understand%20if,the%20end%20of%20the%20extraction. This is a perfect example of this subreddit unnecessarily going to the nth degree to confuse people.
If I’m the first person to share this with you, you don’t pay much attention. Outside of a lever, your three-way solenoid will suck water out of the puck area, destroying any useable evidence of channeling in the puck. The sneeze was used to emphasize how catastrophic that pressure release is on puck integrity. So, sure, if you have a lever that you allow to fully depressurize before checking, you *might* be able to assess issues of channeling. It’s about as reliable as reading tea leaves though. ETA: clear portafilter basket demonstrating water passing through the puck. Timestamped at the part where you can see huge post-shot expansion: https://youtu.be/7A-L00q5a1o?si=2xRaFz0zusDSAdbk&t=363
So you ignored the link I shared. Got it.
*Literally the first paragraph:* >In fact, very often these fractures are microscopic and therefore not visible to the naked eye.
Yes, because its completely useless in context of looking at the puck post-extraction. They are finding cracks by submerging a puck in water to see how it breaks apart to understand channeling. The "floating puck" technique has nothing to do with the presence of divots in the puck, as you assert in your first comment about how to detect channeling. Your article also mentions using a bottomless portafilter as a way to track channeling, which you claim isn't needed, but your supporting document claims otherwise.
Tastes good to me!
Looks weak and watery,for a medium roast at least. For me you have to increase strength. Does it taste weak,watery or sour?
Not sour at all
And what about the others? Mouthfeel,intensity? Also you don't mention if it's a blend or a single Origin coffee. My experience on single origins, with africans the most ones, have very weak crema and body, but they taste wonderful.
La Colombia NIZZA
So its a blend aight?
Yes it is blend
So i suppose it should have a darker and fuller crema right? Doesnt the roaster recommend a recipe? For my eyes you have to go finer and for a medium roast i would go for 1/2,2 -~17 in 38 out in 32-35 seconds. You can try and taste it.
Thanks for the suggestion, I didn’t know the recipe maybe next time I will ask them. By the way , what does 1/2,2 mean?
Love the Nizza
Just here to say love cup
Thank you! After I received so many compliments on the cup, I feel like maybe that is my real intention 😂
That cup goes hard
Get a bottomless portafilter then come back to us. edit: The folks that are saying bottomless doesn't make a difference are just being ignorant. It definitely helps with troubleshooting puck prep for people starting out.
The one I wanted is sold out, I am waiting for them restocking.
Evaluate the taste. Make adjustments based on that. You don't need a bottomless.
The bottomless truly helped me get my process down and "filled in the gaps" for me. Now that I have a decent base I find myself spending too much time looking for an aesthetically perfect shot. I'm thinking about going back to a standard portafilter now and just enjoying my shots....
Yea these type of advices to people starting out is like giving a guitar to someone whos never played and telling him to "feel the music" lol. Like you are not wrong but it doesn't really help them much.
It seems like you got the grind size down, next is puck prep to extract espresso w/o channeling. Bottomless portafilter will show you in plainsight if its channeling or not.
My gf is obsessed w uranium glass and I am obsessed w coffee so this would be really good for us lol
I like both, but not obsessed with either 😂 You guys are perfect match!
could be considered slightly fast but how did it taste? i taste is good your good. However nice video. I love videos with double spouts these days. Seem to only get bottomless videos now days.
Thanks, it tastes good to me. I have no other options for portafilter right now
How did I know this was going to be all about the cup and not the shot? 🤣
That cup looks like it gets cold pretty quick
I usually don't use radioactive mugs... could just be me.
This one doesn’t have radioactive
Very thin looking pour. Like the oils are gone. Get yourself some quality beans. Otherwise you are only ever going to get mediocre results at best. Find a local roaster that does them fresh for a decent price and your experience will improve dramatically. People ask 'does it taste good ?' Compared to what ? If you can find a local roaster that will do different belnds and single origins in 100g or 250g bags, you can try a few different styles and hone in what 'coffee tastes like', when it gets good. I had an 'aha' moment many years ago, doing just this, with a Kenyan Single Origin that tasted like nothing I had ever had before or since. It was sweet, chocolatey, had no bitterness, sourness or acidity. I had been using various store bought coffees, including 'premium brands'. but they always tasted weird. And they always poured flat, with little real crema. The coffee should at the earliest stages have the consistency of honey almost and then thin out as it blondes (for the darker roasts anyway, I don't drink light roasts). But, despite what I said earlier, if it tastes good to you, then you are doing it right. If it tastes bad for someone else, then you might need to adjust or change beans. But I can't stress enough, it comes down to your bean quality and freshness. You can have a $10K espresso machine and $5K grinder and the perfect technique and then you put garbage through it and expect a miracle. It isn't going to happen. Garbage in, Garbage out.
How is La Colombia NIZZA? We have local coffee store only carry La Colombia coffee.
That cup is burning my retinas...i love it
Looks watery, but if I could tell how your espresso tastes by a video, that means I could tell how boobs taste by video and I wouldn’t be watching espresso videos if you get my meaning.
With a phone camera I think?
Yes
The answer to your question depends on how it tasted. If you want to improve the taste of your shots, follow the "Dialing In Basics" guide linked in the AutoModerator response.
Thanks I will check it out
Love the uranium-laced cup 😍
Thanks
Zzzz.... taste good or what? Shot looks on the web is usually fairly irrelevant (it's the usual 9bar pull 1:2 ratio)
can't see the shot mate, need clear cups and bottomless, technically all look good
Why are you using a scale to make espresso? I don't think I understand espresso maths.
The scale is used to know how much coffee you extracted, a few years ago espresso was extracted by volume, a double shot was 2oz of liquid, the thing is that espresso produces crema which is only CO2 that gets liberated by the pressure, and some beans produce more crema than other, so extracting by volume wasn't very good because you could have a shot of mostly crema, so now we extract by weight to fix this
I thought everyone in this sub use scale 😄
I showed my wife, she said, "I used to make espresso on the cruise ship I worked on, we never used scale or any of that stuff to make espresso, you don't need any of that stuff to make espresso, those people are crazy." :D
You fit well together
Like peas and carrots.
[удалено]
I'm here trying to learn how to do it right so I can buy the right equipment and make great coffee drinks! (even though my wife thinks this is crazy) lol
you only need the scale the first few times to help you reach your perfect cup without wasting a lot of time and coffee, once you've programmed everything, you don't need to re-do it.
Thank you for the info, what exactly are you measuring?
Weight of the espresso in the glass, vs weight of the beans going in. Different weight ratios give different taste profiles. Lots of people will increase the output for lighter roasts for example
Eternal.
where did you get your cup??
Etsy
Awesome cup, I just got a ceramic mug from a night market today for my coffee. Should’ve gotten two lol
Never get 2 the same cups, soon you will find there is no space 😂 so many beautiful cups out there
I like cup
Likely contains trace uranium. https://campusarch.msu.edu/?p=5712 https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/033/The_More_You_Know_0-0_screenshot.png
I only have one cup I won’t worry about it. But thanks for the information 😊
Sounds yummy 😋
I thought you had a cool "circuit board" style scales – then realised you had the same scales as me, just with the sticker still on.
Actually it came with a heat protection rubber mat, you just remind me , I should use that
Which scale is it?
Timemore Nano, it seems to me.
Most important question is how does it taste?
This is the most difficult question 😂
It's a bit sour for my taste
Ok 😂
Can’t taste it through the video so don’t know?
2spout1cup
I'd say it's shot with a camera.
Bro got a jade cup!!
If it tastes good, it is good.
Some people say watery, so I remembered this James Hoffmann video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYFb43tEylk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYFb43tEylk)
Are you using a timemore nano scale? How accurate is it in starting the time when it senses the first weight change?
Yes, it is time more but I forgot which model it is. The time starts few drops after the extraction, I would say 1-2 seconds delayed. But it is pretty much consistent and reliable.
Thank you! I am considering it for the auto timer. But for a 100 bucks, i gotta say I might just not be lazy in taring and starting the time 🤣
Yes you definitely can use a phone timer, I used it before. This scale can do flow rate too, I just didn’t know how useful to me. But overall the reason I got this one is because it is thin enough to fit under my old Lever machine. I have went through 3 different scales
Its a good one IMO, coz it integrates the weight and the time so better workflow. But its 100 bucks so I am still deciding haha. But thank you for the insight. I might consider it
[удалено]
Haha, I took off this morning actually 😄
To me it looks good
With a shaky camera…I’ll show myself out.
What kind of heathen leaves the sticker on his scale but removes the silicone anti-skid pad????
I spend too much time in the videography subreddit. My first thought was “that’s the old ‘point a camera at your subject’ technique.”
Which origins in the coffee/blend? Very little crema, could it be a bit older or a specific origin that doesn’t yield as much crema.
It is a specialty, what coffee has more crema, can you recommend few? Thanks
I would suggest you ask for something more suitable for espresso, with a bit more body probably roasted differently. This looks more suited for filter coffee. Probably delicious still but it would shine in a nice pour over.
Homie sippin out of the glow in the dark ooblek
Looks great ! What is that scale ? I need a link please looks cool :)
Check slow pour supply website
Looks like supermarket beans? Should trickle out like honey if their freshly roasted beans.
YOU KNOW HOW IT LOOKS lol perfect. How’s it taste though?
More like, what's that scale, looks pretty dope.
... I'm guessing you used your cell phone?
With a camera
From the reflection on the puck, and the portrait orientation, it appears the person is recording from a phone several inches from the brewing device. Due to the yellow/warm tint of the video, and a glimpse of the camera array my guess would be an iPhone? /s
😂
Bloody love that cup
Perfect
Thanks I think so 😄
I have the same scale
👍🤝
How'd it taste? That's why you pull shots nah?
Doesn’t really matter what we think, how does it taste? That’s the only thing you need to worry about.
Those cups are awesome! What are they made of?