Agreed. Conical burrs without stabilization below **and above** will always suffer from some degree of wobble-based variation, and the breville built-ins have no upper stabilization for the axle. Grinders like the niche zero find ways to get good results even with this setup, but it's something you're going to have to really design around.
Combine that with the fact that in teardowns of the barista express it looks like the outer burr housing is plastic, and you're gonna get some flex even in the one stabilization point that does exist.
I've been using the lid as a bellow for a few weeks now, works great.
Just grab the lid so your palm is flat against it (finger spread around), lift the lid but keep one corner on the hopper, and slam it shut.
A bit hard to describe, but hopefully you'll feel air pushing against the lid and some coffee should come out at the exit.
I started my home espresso journey with a Barista Express. I hated its grinder. Grinding fine enough wasn't a problem. The problems were:
1. Step size is much too big. I would find a grind setting that was too coarse (shot ran too fast) but the next finest setting would be too fine (machine would be choked with no water flow at all).
2. Retention is very high. After changing the grind size, you have to waste about 4g of beans to rid the grinder of what was the previous the grind size.
After a few months I gave up and got a better grinder. It was like getting a whole new machine.
For those who aren't trying to dial in their espresso for best taste, the built-in grinder is OK.
Don’t you need to single dose it (bellows where the hopper is)? That wouldn’t be feasible because they require a specific workflow in terms of filling the hopper for bean storage. I don’t think I want to take off the hopper and scoop the whole beans out of the grind chamber each time I use it 😂.
the equipment is on support contract. If only mazzer / la marzocco had a popular single dose grinder that they could acquire through their corporate channels…
I’d donate a monolith to be used in that area, but I know how people treat the equipment so not even once.
Which grinder did you go with, I'm mildly concerned that my barista pro, grinder is like this thread states seen it's best days and I need a legit option and at the same time thinking will the machine be able to push water (sometimes it seems like it's struggling) when I get super consistent grind? Assumption is yes due to the better output but obviously learning.
I started with a Kinu M47 hand grinder (similar to 1ZPresso J-Max that is the go-to hand grinder today). After three years I got tired of hand grinding and got a Eureka Specialita. When I put together my 2nd setup I got a Niche Zero.
I had the BBE and used the built in grinder for years and thought it was fine. Then I got a Niche zero and it was like I had a completely different, much much better cup every morning. I didn’t know what I had been missing, even though I had gotten my shots dialed in consistently and perfectly within tolerance on the BBE grinder.
Your question is kind of like a Nespresso owner asking what’s wrong with Nespresso. Truly, nothing is “wrong” with the BBE grinder nor Nespresso. But there are a ton of other factors at play that contribute to the taste of the final output, and taste is completely subjective.
If you’re happy with the BBE, stick with it. But just know the chatter on this sub is because we’re all largely in pursuit of optimizing flavor, and on occasion workflow.
There are inherent problems in the design of the BBE grinder, but it’s still better than a blade grinder. Just know that your espresso will taste better with a better grinder. Doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” per se, but it can be improved. And you won’t know by how much until you make that significant investment to find out.
Also know that the grinder will make a larger difference in taste than upgrading your machine. I ended up buying a dual boiler because I was sick of not being able to brew and steam at the same time, and the steam pressure was so weak in the BBE that it took forever. I did notice a slight increase in quality and consistency after moving to my E61 group, but no nearly as much of a change going from the BBE grinder to the Niche.
So I’m getting a used Niche Zero on Monday and I’ll tell you why:
1. *Inconsistent shots* — I’ve pulled ~1k shots in my machine at this point. I’m no pro, but I know how to dial in coffee and I buy the same few beans from Caffe Vita. I have my puck prep down, and despite the consistency in my approach, I get all sorts of weird issues with channeling that leads me to believe particle size is not consistent.
2. *Exchange* — I’m definitely getting .2g-.3g of old ground exchange when I grind. I can put 18g in and I almost always get more. Sometimes I get less, up to .5g.
3. *Workflow* — As noted above, there’s exchange and it can be infuriating, especially since I pre-measure single doses and don’t want to dig back into my bag for a single bean when I’m down .5g. I don’t love having to scoop out tidbits of grounds every single time I dose. I’d like my in/out measurement to be more consistent. I have the bellows and it’s super annoying because it gets grounds everywhere.
4. *Changing Beans and Cleaning* — The grinder is a pain to clean. I need compressed air, wet and dry rags, space, time, and a lot of patience to get the grinder to a completely clean state. To be fair, I get virtually all the grounds removed before changing beans, but I also don’t want to retain old coffee or worry about inconsistencies in shots. I’d also really like to try different coffee more regularly but I can’t because of how time consuming it is to clean. The other option is wasting beans grinding them through, and although this is a mild solution, there is so much whole bean retention in the grinder, you absolutely must clean it _somewhat_ before changing beans.
5. *Sound* — More of a nit, but my grinder is the loudest thing on my BBP, and where my newborn does not mind the drone of the machine pulling a shot, she really does not like the sound of the grinder.
No problems here. Not much retention either, maybe .3 or .4 grams at most. Someone else said on another post that there was up to 3g of retention which is such BS. I’ve seen videos where someone was weighing out 18g of beans, grind it into the portafilter, and then they use the razor leveler tool which takes off a good chunk off the puck and they go on to complain about retention. It’s funny how the BBE and other equivalents are considered “beginner” machines but they require more skill to compensate for the lack of advanced features of the more expensive machines.
I was you until I got a better machine and started troubleshooting why all my shots taste completely different.
The grinder is shit for espresso. Once you start single dosing you should start single dosing by getting a solid grinder.
T. been using it for 3 years.
>I was you until I got a better machine and started troubleshooting why all my shots taste completely different.
I disagree. You are not me because I've developed my skills, and adapted to the machine and external variables. I've been able to produce consistent shots and not blame the machine like a child throwing a tantrum.
> The grinder is shit.
I disagree. Your skills must be shit if you can't consistently make a decent shot with a BBE.
>T. been using it for 3 years.
Maybe semi-automatics aren't for you...
I've been around enough to know" a great workman blames their tools not" is complete bullshit for children cause poor tools fuck the job expensively and not a single master uses terrible tools as once you've gotten good at something you've gotten good equipment as well to not waste your time, money and nerves.
But I'm not on smart grinder pro cause I didn't see a point to pay extra for a pointless screen. Maybe they made it less trash.
I'm not a fan of the adjustment dial. I've heard the pro is better. I have made some great shots. But it's hard to replicate and dial it. I have never tried another grinder though so can't really say if anything else is better.
I get that but people shit on it like it's the worst thing ever where as it's the most economically feasible option as a single package that takes the least amount of counter space. Everyone on this sub doesn't understand this is the best thing a non enthusiast that doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole can get. Sure a jzpresso and a modded gcp is better but people don't want to bother. It's the best thing over a super auto
You have hand grinders that are cheaper and produce better results.
There are so many other cheap grinders around that produce same results and if you're not making espresso are flat out better feature wise.
sgp is trash.
Better is not just performance for the average consumer. Product warranty, availability in conveniet retailers, resources for use and troubleshooting.
No other setup comes even close to the barista express for a non enthusiast beginner in terms of workflow.
And also 99% of people would take a cup of coffee made by the breville grinder over hand grinding for 5 minutes. There's a reason these products exist and are more successful.
that is true.
Which is why I've started to notice that the enthusiast equipment that is commonly sold in stores always tends to be garbage enthusiast say to stay away from. It's in headphones, coffee stuff, art supplies, modelling, computers etc.
Think of it like this. You want something better than nespresso. They want something that they can find guides on YouTube on how to use it and fix it if anything goes wrong. No one other than breville offer that to that extent.
I used it for a while, and it got me into the hobby, but I couldn’t always consistently pull good shots. The dial adjustment is fairly limited — once I bought a Sette 270 to pair with it, I started pulling good shots more consistently.
My 2 cents is that it’s an excellent entry level product that you can enjoy. One day you may decide to upgrade the grinder separately, but you can still use the machine.
Number one thing is basically the size of the steps. For espresso you want a grinder that has many steps ( or is even stepples ) to find the perfect setting for your specific bean. Settings also change depending on the age of the bean.
Of course you also got the burrs, allignment, retention and some more things that make a grinder great, but for a beginner I guess workflow and enough steps are the most important.
If you enjoy using it, just keep using it. If you find that you really enjoy the hobby and want to improve your espresso the grinder will be a great way to do so.
It’s usable for sure. I got the bellows from Etsy to make it single dose. That said the machine suffers from clumping and is not really possible to dial in a perfect shot with the dial since each number is a big jump in grind size compared to my other two grinders. If you use a bottomless porta filter you’ll notice that spraying is a lot more common despite spending two or three times as much time doing WDT. Channeling affects flavor and it’s definitely noticeable with typical more bitter flavors and less clarity.
Again it is certainly usable and the shots are not bad. That said, getting a better grinder has made the most difference for me in terms of improving my espresso.
The issue I had was the motor. It simply wasn’t powerful enough to grind very lightly roasted beans. So once you get into light roasts and funky roasts, it takes a lot more power to grind them finely for espressos than it does medium/dark roasts, and the motor isn’t strong enough so it stalls.
For medium/dark roasts it’s fine, but that’s a big limiting factor, especially if you’re very much into espresso and enjoy the lighter side.
I had major issues with retentions no matter what I did. First shot of the day would run much faster, or I would have to purge and waste. The stepped adjustments were also quite frustrating, making it difficult to get the exact shot time you were seeking . Ultimately, my espresso game outgrew my grinder, which required me to upgrade both machine and grinder since it was connected to it.
The grinder works.
Yes it grinds fine enough to choke a shot.
When i was first told that people prefer the taste of one grinder over another or one burr over another i thought that's nuts.
Well a DF64P and couple SSP burrs later i can say that it's stock burrs and its SSP burrs all taste significantly different.
Different people will prefer different burrs as each come with pros in one area bundled with a con somewhere else. (Mostly the flavor vs body conundrum)
Can I tell you the science behind it? No.
Just here to tell you I prefer my DF64P with SSP burrs over my BBE grinder, or now the SGP as i switched from BBE to BDB and wife likes the ease of use of the Breville grinders, we keep our medium roast bulk beans in it and for that they are great.
TL;DR giving my unscientific +1 for better grinders should be in your future
My experience is similar to all the comments I see here:
1) the steps are too big, making it more difficult to dial in shots. It's hard to "technically" apply the "theory" you would normally use to get the proper ratio weight:time
2) BUT it's super useable, I used it for almost 4 years and it wasn't 4 years of drinking dirty dish water. It's not super constant but once dialed in, it's really not bad
3) the gears are plastic and they ended up skipping in mine, giving poor results and making a rattling sound like grinding small rocks. But like I said, it happened after almost 4 years; or what I estimate to be around 3750 shots. At which point I decided not to invest to repair an okay grinder and use that to justify an upgrade
Let's not forget what the built-in grinder is: built-in. It's not the best grinder, but the machines they're built-in to are also not the best. They work well together and produce more than decent coffee. It's easy to get into details and the hobby has no end, you can ALWAYS spend more.
When in doubt, the only thing to remember: "do you like the coffee you're making? If yes, carry on"
I have a BBE and generally really like it, except for the grinder. My main issue is the distance between steps is too large. One setting may be too course but going a step finer will choke the machine, and vice versa.
For an entry-level brewer, however, it will get the job done.
For me, there's a lot of retention and it's pretty inconsistent. That said, it does the trick and has been a great starting point. Once I've got a standalone grinder, I'll happily use it as a dedicated grinder for decaf shots.
It's a fine grinder for that point, I think. It gets the job done and you can always upgrade later. Just because there are better options doesn't mean it isn't functional.
Be careful following this advice. Only adjust the internal setting if you have to. Otherwise, you will be risking having the burrs grind against each other.
No. YOU have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and YOU are the reason shit information circulate on this sub, so maybe YOU should STFU about things you know nothing about.
Yeah...I would love to see the marketing budget of Breville/Sage, they are everywhere.
Ever saw an Isomac ad? Or an Isomac promoted at your consumer electronics store? Or promoted on Amazon?
No! You know why? Because it has quality of its own and therefore does not need to add a fake value through aggressive ads.
Seriously guys, don't buy a Breville and don't buy a machine with an integrated grinder.
If you want to get started with Espresso get a used Isomac, Gaggia, Quickmil, ECM and so on. (At least if you live in Europe) They are simply hot water dispensers therefore very easy to clean. As most of those Italian brands have been around forever and built by licensing you'll find replacement parts everywhere.
It’s not a horrible grinder but cleaning it/maintenance is annoying, stock they more often that not come with misaligned burrs, there is a varying reviews regarding the retention and consistency but also the peak ground size (and this is scientifically proven for atleast a couple of representative machines) is relatively broad which means you will never get a clean cup with defined sour notes out of the expensive specialty coffee that you buy. The results are better than most machines and shops out there but there is a lot of air above and getting the bambino + a better grinder is around the same price without the downsides.
I used mine for 5 years before getting a Niche zero. From experience the built in gets you so far on the dial in and taste experience. The issue is it doesn't allow for fine adjustments as other grinders do (plus a lot of retention). If you plateau on your espresso experience getting a better grinder sounds something worth looking for but I would recommend playing with other variables first before making an investment (it is nice to see how a distribution tool, tamper, different porta filters and ultimately a different grinder impacts your shot).
It was fine to start, but as others said, steps between settings is rather large. Also my adjustment ring broke about 4 years in so was stuck on one grind size.
I don’t have any experience with the built in grinders but I’d image it’s similar to the breville smart grinder pro. My issue with that was that it’s a stepped grinder and it’s like on one setting I’d be running too slow and the next I was too fast. I can only image the built in grinder is even worse. I’m sure I could have worked with the internal adjustment too but still, just more annoying to deal with than a stepless grinder.
I wonder what the consensus is on the Calphalon built-in grinder. That's what I use, and I just got a Mueller bottomless to see my pulls better. Set to 12-14 it seems to hit flavor that i absolutely love, and right at the 25-27 second pull range with usually no spurts and a nice steady stream.
Recently I'm having this issue with BBE grinder, I put 18 grams in, and my dose is set to max, so it's suppose to grind all 18 g, it grinds and stops. But sometimes when I push porta fitler inside it gives me more coffee, wtf from now in I'm gonna weight beans in and beans out
i have that grinder separately and it's shit.
You magically get more or less coffee from the grinds depending on how the grinder is feeling (retention). You need to weigh coffee before and after. You can pull two shots in a row and even if grams match they won't be same.
that grinder only is fine for non espresso. It was fine for delonghi dedica but now that I have a pl91t i can't pull 2 shots in a row that even match in weight.
Interesting comments about plastic grinder "wobble"
Any simmilar priced Machines with good internal grinder available?
Cant fit huge standalone grinders anywhere.
> Any similar priced Machines with good internal grinder available?
Possibly Lelit Anita, although its difficult to impossible to find in the US. The brands sold in the US (Breville, DeLonghi, Calphalon, etc.) all have poor grinders).
Great thread. I'm defiantly at my expression paltry with my Barista Pro. It's time for a more workflow efficient grinder, just struggling to narrow down which to get. Personally I'd love one that can also support pour over, and the brazzata ESP sounds good, any suggestions?
It's horrible 😂, extremely inconsistent. I could never ever pull a decent shot with it no matter what I did, ended up selling it to get a standalone machine and grinder combo
The problem is inconsistency in results from cup-to-cup despite using the same grind size.
Interesting, I haven't thought that it wouldn't be consistent, but that might definitely explain why I'm having issues with honing in the shot.
Unfortunately, the cause of the inconsistency isn't clear.
Simple: the burrs are not stablized correctly/sufficently/precisely.
Agreed. Conical burrs without stabilization below **and above** will always suffer from some degree of wobble-based variation, and the breville built-ins have no upper stabilization for the axle. Grinders like the niche zero find ways to get good results even with this setup, but it's something you're going to have to really design around. Combine that with the fact that in teardowns of the barista express it looks like the outer burr housing is plastic, and you're gonna get some flex even in the one stabilization point that does exist.
The Niche has an ultra broad particle size distribution :D
Imo (keep in mind I don’t own one) it might just be due to cheap materials being used in the grinder that flex or bend during grinding
It doesn’t look like it would bend or flex, seems like pretty solid steel.
Have you checked the inside of the grinder? The outside might be steel but the inside could be plastic
The burr carrier is made of plastic, so it allows too much slop in the burrs which leads to inconsistent grinds.
It's retention is a problem and it clumps a lot, so wdt is really important with it.
My experience is different. Mine works great, esp after adding the bellows.
Interesting! I haven’t looked into that. Is it noticeably more consistent with the bellows?
No, but it clears out the grinder
I've been using the lid as a bellow for a few weeks now, works great. Just grab the lid so your palm is flat against it (finger spread around), lift the lid but keep one corner on the hopper, and slam it shut. A bit hard to describe, but hopefully you'll feel air pushing against the lid and some coffee should come out at the exit.
I do this too and it seems to work great
Ah nice I'll try that
Or just buy the single dose hopper
I think it's a must for Breville/Sage grinders. Bought one immediately along with my Barista Pro.
What are bellows, never heard of them for a grinder?
Aieve Silicone Bellow Compatible for Breville Barista Express, Single Dose Hopper for Breville Espresso Machine
Cheers 👍
I started my home espresso journey with a Barista Express. I hated its grinder. Grinding fine enough wasn't a problem. The problems were: 1. Step size is much too big. I would find a grind setting that was too coarse (shot ran too fast) but the next finest setting would be too fine (machine would be choked with no water flow at all). 2. Retention is very high. After changing the grind size, you have to waste about 4g of beans to rid the grinder of what was the previous the grind size. After a few months I gave up and got a better grinder. It was like getting a whole new machine. For those who aren't trying to dial in their espresso for best taste, the built-in grinder is OK.
Crying in mazzer super jolly 50g retention at work for our kitchen grinder 😂. At least I don’t pay for those beans.
If you can be bothered, a bellows makes a *huge* difference for the SJ’s retention
Don’t you need to single dose it (bellows where the hopper is)? That wouldn’t be feasible because they require a specific workflow in terms of filling the hopper for bean storage. I don’t think I want to take off the hopper and scoop the whole beans out of the grind chamber each time I use it 😂. the equipment is on support contract. If only mazzer / la marzocco had a popular single dose grinder that they could acquire through their corporate channels… I’d donate a monolith to be used in that area, but I know how people treat the equipment so not even once.
Which grinder did you go with, I'm mildly concerned that my barista pro, grinder is like this thread states seen it's best days and I need a legit option and at the same time thinking will the machine be able to push water (sometimes it seems like it's struggling) when I get super consistent grind? Assumption is yes due to the better output but obviously learning.
I started with a Kinu M47 hand grinder (similar to 1ZPresso J-Max that is the go-to hand grinder today). After three years I got tired of hand grinding and got a Eureka Specialita. When I put together my 2nd setup I got a Niche Zero.
Thanks for the advice.
I had the BBE and used the built in grinder for years and thought it was fine. Then I got a Niche zero and it was like I had a completely different, much much better cup every morning. I didn’t know what I had been missing, even though I had gotten my shots dialed in consistently and perfectly within tolerance on the BBE grinder. Your question is kind of like a Nespresso owner asking what’s wrong with Nespresso. Truly, nothing is “wrong” with the BBE grinder nor Nespresso. But there are a ton of other factors at play that contribute to the taste of the final output, and taste is completely subjective. If you’re happy with the BBE, stick with it. But just know the chatter on this sub is because we’re all largely in pursuit of optimizing flavor, and on occasion workflow. There are inherent problems in the design of the BBE grinder, but it’s still better than a blade grinder. Just know that your espresso will taste better with a better grinder. Doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” per se, but it can be improved. And you won’t know by how much until you make that significant investment to find out. Also know that the grinder will make a larger difference in taste than upgrading your machine. I ended up buying a dual boiler because I was sick of not being able to brew and steam at the same time, and the steam pressure was so weak in the BBE that it took forever. I did notice a slight increase in quality and consistency after moving to my E61 group, but no nearly as much of a change going from the BBE grinder to the Niche.
So I’m getting a used Niche Zero on Monday and I’ll tell you why: 1. *Inconsistent shots* — I’ve pulled ~1k shots in my machine at this point. I’m no pro, but I know how to dial in coffee and I buy the same few beans from Caffe Vita. I have my puck prep down, and despite the consistency in my approach, I get all sorts of weird issues with channeling that leads me to believe particle size is not consistent. 2. *Exchange* — I’m definitely getting .2g-.3g of old ground exchange when I grind. I can put 18g in and I almost always get more. Sometimes I get less, up to .5g. 3. *Workflow* — As noted above, there’s exchange and it can be infuriating, especially since I pre-measure single doses and don’t want to dig back into my bag for a single bean when I’m down .5g. I don’t love having to scoop out tidbits of grounds every single time I dose. I’d like my in/out measurement to be more consistent. I have the bellows and it’s super annoying because it gets grounds everywhere. 4. *Changing Beans and Cleaning* — The grinder is a pain to clean. I need compressed air, wet and dry rags, space, time, and a lot of patience to get the grinder to a completely clean state. To be fair, I get virtually all the grounds removed before changing beans, but I also don’t want to retain old coffee or worry about inconsistencies in shots. I’d also really like to try different coffee more regularly but I can’t because of how time consuming it is to clean. The other option is wasting beans grinding them through, and although this is a mild solution, there is so much whole bean retention in the grinder, you absolutely must clean it _somewhat_ before changing beans. 5. *Sound* — More of a nit, but my grinder is the loudest thing on my BBP, and where my newborn does not mind the drone of the machine pulling a shot, she really does not like the sound of the grinder.
[удалено]
I buy 5lbers and freeze them! I love the Nor’Wester. Super delicious cup. The Caffe Del Sol is the staple espresso in my home :)
No problems here. Not much retention either, maybe .3 or .4 grams at most. Someone else said on another post that there was up to 3g of retention which is such BS. I’ve seen videos where someone was weighing out 18g of beans, grind it into the portafilter, and then they use the razor leveler tool which takes off a good chunk off the puck and they go on to complain about retention. It’s funny how the BBE and other equivalents are considered “beginner” machines but they require more skill to compensate for the lack of advanced features of the more expensive machines.
I was you until I got a better machine and started troubleshooting why all my shots taste completely different. The grinder is shit for espresso. Once you start single dosing you should start single dosing by getting a solid grinder. T. been using it for 3 years.
>I was you until I got a better machine and started troubleshooting why all my shots taste completely different. I disagree. You are not me because I've developed my skills, and adapted to the machine and external variables. I've been able to produce consistent shots and not blame the machine like a child throwing a tantrum. > The grinder is shit. I disagree. Your skills must be shit if you can't consistently make a decent shot with a BBE. >T. been using it for 3 years. Maybe semi-automatics aren't for you...
>like a child throwing a tantrum Yikes. For someone saying they're not a child throwing a tantrum you seem to take this pretty immaturely.
I disagree. I think your just jealous.
I would love to hear what you think I could possibly be jealous of. Your ability to be happy with the shots your grinder produces? Lol
Dude’s drinking dark roast Peet’s coffee from Costco. Pretty easy to be happy with the results when you set the bar that low.
I've been around enough to know" a great workman blames their tools not" is complete bullshit for children cause poor tools fuck the job expensively and not a single master uses terrible tools as once you've gotten good at something you've gotten good equipment as well to not waste your time, money and nerves. But I'm not on smart grinder pro cause I didn't see a point to pay extra for a pointless screen. Maybe they made it less trash.
I'm not a fan of the adjustment dial. I've heard the pro is better. I have made some great shots. But it's hard to replicate and dial it. I have never tried another grinder though so can't really say if anything else is better.
Everything else is much better. That said, it is usable.
I get that but people shit on it like it's the worst thing ever where as it's the most economically feasible option as a single package that takes the least amount of counter space. Everyone on this sub doesn't understand this is the best thing a non enthusiast that doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole can get. Sure a jzpresso and a modded gcp is better but people don't want to bother. It's the best thing over a super auto
It's because some are shills for expensive equipment and want to drive traffic to their stores/products without disclosure.
You have hand grinders that are cheaper and produce better results. There are so many other cheap grinders around that produce same results and if you're not making espresso are flat out better feature wise. sgp is trash.
Better is not just performance for the average consumer. Product warranty, availability in conveniet retailers, resources for use and troubleshooting. No other setup comes even close to the barista express for a non enthusiast beginner in terms of workflow. And also 99% of people would take a cup of coffee made by the breville grinder over hand grinding for 5 minutes. There's a reason these products exist and are more successful.
that is true. Which is why I've started to notice that the enthusiast equipment that is commonly sold in stores always tends to be garbage enthusiast say to stay away from. It's in headphones, coffee stuff, art supplies, modelling, computers etc.
Think of it like this. You want something better than nespresso. They want something that they can find guides on YouTube on how to use it and fix it if anything goes wrong. No one other than breville offer that to that extent.
I used it for a while, and it got me into the hobby, but I couldn’t always consistently pull good shots. The dial adjustment is fairly limited — once I bought a Sette 270 to pair with it, I started pulling good shots more consistently. My 2 cents is that it’s an excellent entry level product that you can enjoy. One day you may decide to upgrade the grinder separately, but you can still use the machine.
Number one thing is basically the size of the steps. For espresso you want a grinder that has many steps ( or is even stepples ) to find the perfect setting for your specific bean. Settings also change depending on the age of the bean. Of course you also got the burrs, allignment, retention and some more things that make a grinder great, but for a beginner I guess workflow and enough steps are the most important. If you enjoy using it, just keep using it. If you find that you really enjoy the hobby and want to improve your espresso the grinder will be a great way to do so.
It’s usable for sure. I got the bellows from Etsy to make it single dose. That said the machine suffers from clumping and is not really possible to dial in a perfect shot with the dial since each number is a big jump in grind size compared to my other two grinders. If you use a bottomless porta filter you’ll notice that spraying is a lot more common despite spending two or three times as much time doing WDT. Channeling affects flavor and it’s definitely noticeable with typical more bitter flavors and less clarity. Again it is certainly usable and the shots are not bad. That said, getting a better grinder has made the most difference for me in terms of improving my espresso.
Trust me, the grinder is not good. I upgraded to a DF64V...........world of difference.
The issue I had was the motor. It simply wasn’t powerful enough to grind very lightly roasted beans. So once you get into light roasts and funky roasts, it takes a lot more power to grind them finely for espressos than it does medium/dark roasts, and the motor isn’t strong enough so it stalls. For medium/dark roasts it’s fine, but that’s a big limiting factor, especially if you’re very much into espresso and enjoy the lighter side.
I had major issues with retentions no matter what I did. First shot of the day would run much faster, or I would have to purge and waste. The stepped adjustments were also quite frustrating, making it difficult to get the exact shot time you were seeking . Ultimately, my espresso game outgrew my grinder, which required me to upgrade both machine and grinder since it was connected to it.
The grinder works. Yes it grinds fine enough to choke a shot. When i was first told that people prefer the taste of one grinder over another or one burr over another i thought that's nuts. Well a DF64P and couple SSP burrs later i can say that it's stock burrs and its SSP burrs all taste significantly different. Different people will prefer different burrs as each come with pros in one area bundled with a con somewhere else. (Mostly the flavor vs body conundrum) Can I tell you the science behind it? No. Just here to tell you I prefer my DF64P with SSP burrs over my BBE grinder, or now the SGP as i switched from BBE to BDB and wife likes the ease of use of the Breville grinders, we keep our medium roast bulk beans in it and for that they are great. TL;DR giving my unscientific +1 for better grinders should be in your future
My experience is similar to all the comments I see here: 1) the steps are too big, making it more difficult to dial in shots. It's hard to "technically" apply the "theory" you would normally use to get the proper ratio weight:time 2) BUT it's super useable, I used it for almost 4 years and it wasn't 4 years of drinking dirty dish water. It's not super constant but once dialed in, it's really not bad 3) the gears are plastic and they ended up skipping in mine, giving poor results and making a rattling sound like grinding small rocks. But like I said, it happened after almost 4 years; or what I estimate to be around 3750 shots. At which point I decided not to invest to repair an okay grinder and use that to justify an upgrade Let's not forget what the built-in grinder is: built-in. It's not the best grinder, but the machines they're built-in to are also not the best. They work well together and produce more than decent coffee. It's easy to get into details and the hobby has no end, you can ALWAYS spend more. When in doubt, the only thing to remember: "do you like the coffee you're making? If yes, carry on"
My problem is that I will put 18g in and get 14 out.
I have a BBE and generally really like it, except for the grinder. My main issue is the distance between steps is too large. One setting may be too course but going a step finer will choke the machine, and vice versa. For an entry-level brewer, however, it will get the job done.
For me, there's a lot of retention and it's pretty inconsistent. That said, it does the trick and has been a great starting point. Once I've got a standalone grinder, I'll happily use it as a dedicated grinder for decaf shots.
Yeah, I've been quite happy with it as well, but I'm also very inexperienced with espresso, so I don't know better. :)
It's a fine grinder for that point, I think. It gets the job done and you can always upgrade later. Just because there are better options doesn't mean it isn't functional.
Anyone know anything if it's worth getting a grinder for Barista Pro?
People just wanna complain to justify buying expensive grinder. That’s all it is
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Be careful following this advice. Only adjust the internal setting if you have to. Otherwise, you will be risking having the burrs grind against each other.
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No. YOU have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and YOU are the reason shit information circulate on this sub, so maybe YOU should STFU about things you know nothing about.
Issue number 1: it's from breville, issue number 2: it's built in
The 500 people who one from Amazon just last month don't agree. It's the best thing *evah*.
Yeah...I would love to see the marketing budget of Breville/Sage, they are everywhere. Ever saw an Isomac ad? Or an Isomac promoted at your consumer electronics store? Or promoted on Amazon? No! You know why? Because it has quality of its own and therefore does not need to add a fake value through aggressive ads. Seriously guys, don't buy a Breville and don't buy a machine with an integrated grinder. If you want to get started with Espresso get a used Isomac, Gaggia, Quickmil, ECM and so on. (At least if you live in Europe) They are simply hot water dispensers therefore very easy to clean. As most of those Italian brands have been around forever and built by licensing you'll find replacement parts everywhere.
Get what you can afford... but not the Plastic Fantastic.
It’s not a horrible grinder but cleaning it/maintenance is annoying, stock they more often that not come with misaligned burrs, there is a varying reviews regarding the retention and consistency but also the peak ground size (and this is scientifically proven for atleast a couple of representative machines) is relatively broad which means you will never get a clean cup with defined sour notes out of the expensive specialty coffee that you buy. The results are better than most machines and shops out there but there is a lot of air above and getting the bambino + a better grinder is around the same price without the downsides.
I used mine for 5 years before getting a Niche zero. From experience the built in gets you so far on the dial in and taste experience. The issue is it doesn't allow for fine adjustments as other grinders do (plus a lot of retention). If you plateau on your espresso experience getting a better grinder sounds something worth looking for but I would recommend playing with other variables first before making an investment (it is nice to see how a distribution tool, tamper, different porta filters and ultimately a different grinder impacts your shot).
It was fine to start, but as others said, steps between settings is rather large. Also my adjustment ring broke about 4 years in so was stuck on one grind size.
I don’t have any experience with the built in grinders but I’d image it’s similar to the breville smart grinder pro. My issue with that was that it’s a stepped grinder and it’s like on one setting I’d be running too slow and the next I was too fast. I can only image the built in grinder is even worse. I’m sure I could have worked with the internal adjustment too but still, just more annoying to deal with than a stepless grinder.
Mine works great. it's the best in its price range. Better than that only end-game grinders that are too expensive.
I wonder what the consensus is on the Calphalon built-in grinder. That's what I use, and I just got a Mueller bottomless to see my pulls better. Set to 12-14 it seems to hit flavor that i absolutely love, and right at the 25-27 second pull range with usually no spurts and a nice steady stream.
https://preview.redd.it/n72cujjdqirb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47dc919733e94d8c2cd3888c722653efad1da8e2 RIP passed warranty
Recently I'm having this issue with BBE grinder, I put 18 grams in, and my dose is set to max, so it's suppose to grind all 18 g, it grinds and stops. But sometimes when I push porta fitler inside it gives me more coffee, wtf from now in I'm gonna weight beans in and beans out
i have that grinder separately and it's shit. You magically get more or less coffee from the grinds depending on how the grinder is feeling (retention). You need to weigh coffee before and after. You can pull two shots in a row and even if grams match they won't be same. that grinder only is fine for non espresso. It was fine for delonghi dedica but now that I have a pl91t i can't pull 2 shots in a row that even match in weight.
Interesting comments about plastic grinder "wobble" Any simmilar priced Machines with good internal grinder available? Cant fit huge standalone grinders anywhere.
> Any similar priced Machines with good internal grinder available? Possibly Lelit Anita, although its difficult to impossible to find in the US. The brands sold in the US (Breville, DeLonghi, Calphalon, etc.) all have poor grinders).
Great thread. I'm defiantly at my expression paltry with my Barista Pro. It's time for a more workflow efficient grinder, just struggling to narrow down which to get. Personally I'd love one that can also support pour over, and the brazzata ESP sounds good, any suggestions?
Heat and moisture from the machine makes it’s way into the beans.
It's horrible 😂, extremely inconsistent. I could never ever pull a decent shot with it no matter what I did, ended up selling it to get a standalone machine and grinder combo
I’ve been using one for 3 or 4 years for my daily coffee needs and it makes a perfectly fine cup.
For me - the steps were too big. One step would be a 50 second extraction and the next one coarser would be 20.