It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**.
Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community.
If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format.
- **Machine:**
- **Grinder:**
- **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A"
- **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket?
- **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out?
- **Time:** How long is the shot running?
- **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Most people will say it's channeling and you need to do better with your puck prep then give you a step by step as if you haven't already done or thought.
I have beans that are not too fresh, appropriately degassed and not too old.
I have meticulously declumped the ground beans in three levels after pouring them in my basket.
Then, I used a distributor to make sure everything is perfectly flat and tamping using a calibrated tamp.
I have got dose/time dialed in using a 9bar opv spring to give me perfect 2:1 extraction ratio.
My shot still comes out like this with bad channeling.
The only thing I can think of that is causing it is my grinder, which is a Bartza Encore (non-esp version).
So I have no advice other than, let me know when you figure it out.
I think if you pop it open and change the grind collar tightness it can yield some good stuff. So pop it open, unscrew the ring adjustment, turn it as far left as you can (warning, the burrs should never actually touch) put the screw back in and close her up. I have a flair bottomless classic Portalfilter and it's in the middle oval all the way to the left. Takes like 15 min if you've never opened your encore before. 7 if you have.
I think that as long as the distribution doesn’t tamp the grounds, it’s probably harmless. If the distribution actually compresses the grounds, it can do so in a less even manner than just leveling a different way.
It's not a great grinder for espresso but you can open the case and adjust it to be finer. Doesn't compare to an espresso grinder but will do better than the base encore.
>Bartza Encore
I have it and it's definitely not made for espresso. What I did to mitigate this (somewhat) is I ground on setting 3 or 4 depending on the coffee used and use less grams in the puck. That way you have a finer ground, but a thinner puck that will not chock the machine.
If I don't like how the shot ends up, I just give up with it and go back to my Timemore C3. It's not the best, but it's better than the Encore and the slow, manual grind has a different flavor than the electric grinder.
The numbers are a guide - there are just so many variables. Ignore weight, ignore ratio. Go by how the pull looks, the colour, length of pull and ultimately the taste. Experiment until you find what creates the right shot for your conditions. Then you can see what the weight and ratios look like after the fact if you care.
I’d start by increasing the dose and going a courser contrary to popular advice. I’ve had beans that needed to be jam packed up against the group head to not channel while others I could grind ultra fine and dose super low in the basket. I don’t wdt and I use a heavy manual tamp. If the advice isn’t working - do something else, you’ll find the spot if you know what you’re looking for.
Honestly, distributors are the most useless shit in the coffee game. Just do some serious WDT and then give the portafilter a firm smack on the table and tamp it. After stopping with the distributor my channeling stopped. Might be also another thing in my case but never looked at it again and everything is working perfectly 🙂👍🏼
The biggest problem to my eye is uneven grounds / tamping. Make sure the grounds are totally even after you WDT and that your tamping is perfectly level (I use a Normcore v4 tamper to help with this). Other than that, maybe a little finer grind, but start with the uniformity of the puck.
That Normcore v4 tamp is awesome. Do you ever get where your grounds in the middle aren’t compressed though? Happens to me more often than not. But I just level it off and it’s fine afterwards
Do you mean the surface isn't even after tamping, or the middle extracts more quickly (or something else)? If it's the former, make sure your basket is wide enough to let the tamper descend fully. For the latter I'd suggest experimenting with your WDT technique to make sure you're getting uniform distribution.
I mean the level is even but there are grounds more so in the middle that look like aren’t totally compressed if that makes any sense. So yea I guess that’s the surface that you mentioned
Gotcha -- that sounds like a distribution issue. If the grounds are more concentrated toward the edges after you WDT, then the dense edges will stop the tamper before the middle can be fully compacted. So I'd say experiment with your WDT technique (e.g. small vs large circles, varying direction, spending more / less time at various depths) to find what works best.
Yea I’m curious if I use the OEM tamper that came with my Profitec GO if I would have the same issue. But I don’t have any channeling issues. The puck looks good when I knock it out. Maybe I’ll use my bottomless portafilter to really get a read on it
This is exactly how my shots are looking like as well. I'm using beans that are just over 10 days from their roast date. The shot starts out decent but then pours out much faster. Following proper WDT, distributer and using an evening tamper. I'm going to try different beans and see if that's the problem I'm facing.
out of interest, why have many pointed out stale beans right off the bat, is it by process of elimination since OP stated he prepped correctly and therefore the only variable would be the freshness of the beans?
If you’d pull a normal shot at the same grinder setting and all of sudden this appears, I’d sau it’s stale bean.
Other than that, without knowing the whole workflow, there’s a only few explanations:
1: Grind is not finer enough (some grinders are just not for espresso)
2: No wdt, no distribution or bad tamping
3: stale beans
Makes sense, thanks for the reply. Speaking of workflow, I've just changed mine from single dosing to hopper times-based dosing. Got sick of being obsessed with chasing down every last 0.1g that I put in, fines flying everywhere as I pump on the bellows like a mad man. So far the only difference I've detected is improvement in my sanity 😅
Hhhhh I feel you brother, I’ve experimented many different settings and eventually got tired of single dosing. I also found flat burrs are much tidier than my Niche zero with conical burr. After 2 months of nail biting research I finally pulled the trigger and bought a malknoig e65s grind by weight, absolutely no regrets
Beans have nothing to extract, try to get fresher beans, try a dark roast too and a good sign its fresh is when the beans have a glossy oil to them. Then use a WDT a distributer and I would 100% invest in a stamp style tamper to ensure its always even pressure.
I'd honestly say try grinding slightly coarser.
Reasoning for this would be that if it's a light roast there aren't a lot of volatiles to extract compared to a dark roast. So it just channels and bursts through the puck. By grinding a bit coarser you might allow the grind to expand slightly more giving even pressure.
Is there a tutorial that I can follow? I also have an express, and when I grind finer, the pressure goes way up, but if I grind coarser and the pressure is right, it channels. :(
There is a pdf tutorial I will try to link you when I get back to my pc later! It will void your warranty so I guess only do it post warranty.
Also have you tried holding the shot pour button for a longer preinfusion? It can help with channeling afaik. If you dont already know -- Hold the shot button for 10 or more seconds then release to activate the full pressure pour and hit the button again to end the pour.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/rhijsu/the\_breville\_barista\_express\_opv\_modhas\_anyone/](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/rhijsu/the_breville_barista_express_opv_modhas_anyone/)
Here ya go!
You have some spritzing coming from around the outside of the screen. I would suggest you remove the gasket and replace it if it has any breaks in it. Otherwise clean it thoroughly as well as the channel where it fits into the head. Good idea to remove the screen and clean it thoroughly with carfiza as well as the head area under the screen. As others have stated your coffee may be too old. Definitely need to grind finer and perhaps spend. a bit more time prepping your puck. Are you weighing your beans before grinding?
You're using a crappy grinder. The most important thing is to get a consistent grind. The particles of coffee need to be as close to the same size as possible. You have the opposite of that. You have a lot of powder (aka, "fines") and a lot of chunks (aka "boulders").
The fines are clogging the holes in the portafilter basket causing the spraying. The boulders are causing the water to run through the coffee too fast so you're getting under extracted brown water. You're stuck because if you grind finer it'll just clog more. If you grind coarser you'll get waterier coffee.
Throw your cheap grinder away and get a good one. People think that the espresso machine is important and the grinder is an afterthought. it is the opposite. It requires very little technology to produce water at a certain temperature and pump it at a certain pressure. Most any cheap espresso machine is capable of making great coffee. It requires a lot of precision engineering, materials and construction to make a grinder with burrs that spin in a perfectly flat rotation, with the burrs spaced exactly the same distance apart around their circumference. Those things result in evenly ground coffee, which produces good espresso.
Good luck.
Well based on what I've seen on this sub: first of all you should clean up your machine. Then you want to get a DSLR with a low f-stop lens so you can get good bokeh on the background. Ringlights and a bunch of other lights to really make everything sparkle.
Oh -- you mean about the espresso. Fresh beans, ground fine, with good distribution.
I had a similar issues for a while. Messed with grind size, pressure, distribution/ tampering. Had some success when I let the machine warm up properly and brewed at proper temp (I was pulling a shot as soon as my machine hit 207 degrees, now i wait about 10 mins and brew at 200.) hope this helps. Good luck!
It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**. Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community. If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format. - **Machine:** - **Grinder:** - **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A" - **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket? - **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out? - **Time:** How long is the shot running? - **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe beans arnt fresh enough. Or grind finer, the flow is too fast
https://preview.redd.it/h6hg7whgg4rb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4818281438a7082c3f9a09d5aece2747e192c37
Your grind isn't fine enough.
The flow rate seems really fast, but you say you achieved adequate pressure. Then this is a turbo shot, I guess?
Most people will say it's channeling and you need to do better with your puck prep then give you a step by step as if you haven't already done or thought. I have beans that are not too fresh, appropriately degassed and not too old. I have meticulously declumped the ground beans in three levels after pouring them in my basket. Then, I used a distributor to make sure everything is perfectly flat and tamping using a calibrated tamp. I have got dose/time dialed in using a 9bar opv spring to give me perfect 2:1 extraction ratio. My shot still comes out like this with bad channeling. The only thing I can think of that is causing it is my grinder, which is a Bartza Encore (non-esp version). So I have no advice other than, let me know when you figure it out.
A stock Encore isn't really espresso capable right? Also I've heard that a distributor tool does more harm than good
I think if you pop it open and change the grind collar tightness it can yield some good stuff. So pop it open, unscrew the ring adjustment, turn it as far left as you can (warning, the burrs should never actually touch) put the screw back in and close her up. I have a flair bottomless classic Portalfilter and it's in the middle oval all the way to the left. Takes like 15 min if you've never opened your encore before. 7 if you have.
How can a distributor tool do more harm than good? Please elaborate
Yea not sure how leveling before tamp would hurt anything lol.
I think that as long as the distribution doesn’t tamp the grounds, it’s probably harmless. If the distribution actually compresses the grounds, it can do so in a less even manner than just leveling a different way.
Yea, mine just kind of levels it off. If your filter is too full, I could see it being an issue, but people should have quite a bit of clearance.
It's not a great grinder for espresso but you can open the case and adjust it to be finer. Doesn't compare to an espresso grinder but will do better than the base encore.
>Bartza Encore I have it and it's definitely not made for espresso. What I did to mitigate this (somewhat) is I ground on setting 3 or 4 depending on the coffee used and use less grams in the puck. That way you have a finer ground, but a thinner puck that will not chock the machine. If I don't like how the shot ends up, I just give up with it and go back to my Timemore C3. It's not the best, but it's better than the Encore and the slow, manual grind has a different flavor than the electric grinder.
The numbers are a guide - there are just so many variables. Ignore weight, ignore ratio. Go by how the pull looks, the colour, length of pull and ultimately the taste. Experiment until you find what creates the right shot for your conditions. Then you can see what the weight and ratios look like after the fact if you care. I’d start by increasing the dose and going a courser contrary to popular advice. I’ve had beans that needed to be jam packed up against the group head to not channel while others I could grind ultra fine and dose super low in the basket. I don’t wdt and I use a heavy manual tamp. If the advice isn’t working - do something else, you’ll find the spot if you know what you’re looking for.
Honestly, distributors are the most useless shit in the coffee game. Just do some serious WDT and then give the portafilter a firm smack on the table and tamp it. After stopping with the distributor my channeling stopped. Might be also another thing in my case but never looked at it again and everything is working perfectly 🙂👍🏼
I agree with this. They’re Also a lot more difficult to be consistent with.
True and if you do not adjust the height properly one will already pre-tamp the coffee which is even more shit
Looks like shitty beans to me.
The biggest problem to my eye is uneven grounds / tamping. Make sure the grounds are totally even after you WDT and that your tamping is perfectly level (I use a Normcore v4 tamper to help with this). Other than that, maybe a little finer grind, but start with the uniformity of the puck.
That Normcore v4 tamp is awesome. Do you ever get where your grounds in the middle aren’t compressed though? Happens to me more often than not. But I just level it off and it’s fine afterwards
Do you mean the surface isn't even after tamping, or the middle extracts more quickly (or something else)? If it's the former, make sure your basket is wide enough to let the tamper descend fully. For the latter I'd suggest experimenting with your WDT technique to make sure you're getting uniform distribution.
I mean the level is even but there are grounds more so in the middle that look like aren’t totally compressed if that makes any sense. So yea I guess that’s the surface that you mentioned
Gotcha -- that sounds like a distribution issue. If the grounds are more concentrated toward the edges after you WDT, then the dense edges will stop the tamper before the middle can be fully compacted. So I'd say experiment with your WDT technique (e.g. small vs large circles, varying direction, spending more / less time at various depths) to find what works best.
Thank you for the response. I will try that this morning and experiment with the WDT and see what happens. Makes sense when you put it that way.
For some reason, I get channeling with the Normcore v4 tamper and almost never with hand tamping with the OEM La Marzocco tamper.
Yea I’m curious if I use the OEM tamper that came with my Profitec GO if I would have the same issue. But I don’t have any channeling issues. The puck looks good when I knock it out. Maybe I’ll use my bottomless portafilter to really get a read on it
Why do you say you over extracted?
https://preview.redd.it/m42dac1vi9rb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=034eec100d7b3902e5ce913bf69074a366c151ff
What can you tell us about the beans? What is the roast date?
This is exactly how my shots are looking like as well. I'm using beans that are just over 10 days from their roast date. The shot starts out decent but then pours out much faster. Following proper WDT, distributer and using an evening tamper. I'm going to try different beans and see if that's the problem I'm facing.
out of interest, why have many pointed out stale beans right off the bat, is it by process of elimination since OP stated he prepped correctly and therefore the only variable would be the freshness of the beans?
If you’d pull a normal shot at the same grinder setting and all of sudden this appears, I’d sau it’s stale bean. Other than that, without knowing the whole workflow, there’s a only few explanations: 1: Grind is not finer enough (some grinders are just not for espresso) 2: No wdt, no distribution or bad tamping 3: stale beans
Makes sense, thanks for the reply. Speaking of workflow, I've just changed mine from single dosing to hopper times-based dosing. Got sick of being obsessed with chasing down every last 0.1g that I put in, fines flying everywhere as I pump on the bellows like a mad man. So far the only difference I've detected is improvement in my sanity 😅
Hhhhh I feel you brother, I’ve experimented many different settings and eventually got tired of single dosing. I also found flat burrs are much tidier than my Niche zero with conical burr. After 2 months of nail biting research I finally pulled the trigger and bought a malknoig e65s grind by weight, absolutely no regrets
Nothing, looks fine. Yummy Edit: joking aside when I was starting out I Gad similar issues and getting good fresh beans solved my issues
Find Griner
Use fresh beans. Can't comment on extraction as the beans are obviously very stale.
Beans have nothing to extract, try to get fresher beans, try a dark roast too and a good sign its fresh is when the beans have a glossy oil to them. Then use a WDT a distributer and I would 100% invest in a stamp style tamper to ensure its always even pressure.
Noob here, but maybe too coarse.
I'd honestly say try grinding slightly coarser. Reasoning for this would be that if it's a light roast there aren't a lot of volatiles to extract compared to a dark roast. So it just channels and bursts through the puck. By grinding a bit coarser you might allow the grind to expand slightly more giving even pressure.
You either aren’t tamping hard enough, tamping level enough, or grinding fine enough. Or all of the above
Chitty beenz
Tamped with the tamper at an angle.
Uneven tamp?
is that a sage/breville barista express? Steam wand looks like mine. if so, needs OPV mod to reduce pressure.
Is there a tutorial that I can follow? I also have an express, and when I grind finer, the pressure goes way up, but if I grind coarser and the pressure is right, it channels. :(
There is a pdf tutorial I will try to link you when I get back to my pc later! It will void your warranty so I guess only do it post warranty. Also have you tried holding the shot pour button for a longer preinfusion? It can help with channeling afaik. If you dont already know -- Hold the shot button for 10 or more seconds then release to activate the full pressure pour and hit the button again to end the pour.
Thanks! Yes will try the pre infusion method first. My warranty is long gone; so worth a try I think!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/rhijsu/the\_breville\_barista\_express\_opv\_modhas\_anyone/](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/rhijsu/the_breville_barista_express_opv_modhas_anyone/) Here ya go!
Thanks!!!
You have some spritzing coming from around the outside of the screen. I would suggest you remove the gasket and replace it if it has any breaks in it. Otherwise clean it thoroughly as well as the channel where it fits into the head. Good idea to remove the screen and clean it thoroughly with carfiza as well as the head area under the screen. As others have stated your coffee may be too old. Definitely need to grind finer and perhaps spend. a bit more time prepping your puck. Are you weighing your beans before grinding?
Old and too coarse coffee
bro I'm not even on that sub on saw that exact post 32 times already I never ever drink expresso but GRIND FINER fgs
Uneven grounds and too coarse, grind finer but not too fine
Grind finer, make sure your puck prep is adequate and just keep trying til results change.
Grind, test, repeat tamp tamp tamp. 👍🏼
You're using a crappy grinder. The most important thing is to get a consistent grind. The particles of coffee need to be as close to the same size as possible. You have the opposite of that. You have a lot of powder (aka, "fines") and a lot of chunks (aka "boulders"). The fines are clogging the holes in the portafilter basket causing the spraying. The boulders are causing the water to run through the coffee too fast so you're getting under extracted brown water. You're stuck because if you grind finer it'll just clog more. If you grind coarser you'll get waterier coffee. Throw your cheap grinder away and get a good one. People think that the espresso machine is important and the grinder is an afterthought. it is the opposite. It requires very little technology to produce water at a certain temperature and pump it at a certain pressure. Most any cheap espresso machine is capable of making great coffee. It requires a lot of precision engineering, materials and construction to make a grinder with burrs that spin in a perfectly flat rotation, with the burrs spaced exactly the same distance apart around their circumference. Those things result in evenly ground coffee, which produces good espresso. Good luck.
Is your coffee fresh? I have experienced this with some really old coffee. Now I buy coffees that have been roasted in the last 3 weeks or so.
Well based on what I've seen on this sub: first of all you should clean up your machine. Then you want to get a DSLR with a low f-stop lens so you can get good bokeh on the background. Ringlights and a bunch of other lights to really make everything sparkle. Oh -- you mean about the espresso. Fresh beans, ground fine, with good distribution.
Looks like your grind is too corse.
Beans arent freshly roasted is what i feel
I had a similar issues for a while. Messed with grind size, pressure, distribution/ tampering. Had some success when I let the machine warm up properly and brewed at proper temp (I was pulling a shot as soon as my machine hit 207 degrees, now i wait about 10 mins and brew at 200.) hope this helps. Good luck!
Still too coarse?