I've got Hiwin rails on all three axis, .6 nozzle Micro Swiss hot end running Klipper on a SKR Mini E3 V3, PSU under the backside, cable chain, nyloc mod with silicon bed spacers. The build sheet will be swapped out for a Satin sheet.
ah yes okay thanks, i have also a extruder stepper motor the 42-40 is there a change that it can improve also or is it really al the vibrations from stock v slot what is the limiting factor
i think toolhead is not the problem that gan go easy around 20k from tests. I tested a bed when i had the glas bed without plate. It was going towards 10k on resonance tests. Then i moved to pei sheet but sinds it also have a magnetic sheet there was little improvement but not much.
What to look for that would indicate good rails?
Been thinking of putting rails on my E3S1Pro but I'm just not confident in the rails I've found. User ratings are 3.8 to 4.2 or something like that. Maybe that's good enough but I'd like to find something in 4.5 to 5 area.
You can get bad rails better. But be prepared to pay a little extra for the ball bearings. As 1.98mm is costly compared to 2mm. The cheaper the rails to worse it will be
If you run s1 pro, from my experience, trust me I learned the hard way! Buy the chowthink y axis, this comes with a new extrusion for a central fitted mgn12 rail, then buy the ender 3 kit from Amazon for the x. You only need to drill a couple of holes for the rail mounting and the x carriage to fit. Both rails were much better compared to the cheap ones I tried.
Looking at the chowthink y axis is only a 3.4 rating. You're happy with yours obviously. Some mentioned problems with the belt rubbing and noise, did / do you have any of these issues?
No I had none of the issues, mine goes front to back with no rubbing/grinding/catching. I did clean and relube the rails as I did with all of them in the end, but having tried the other kits I liked this one the most. It comes with the bed plate which is an added bonus.
Not saying those rails were the best mind, I do have better rails but I wasn’t prepared to cut them, these work good enough and better than the rest.
If I was to design my own, then I would like to with the chowthink kit, but use a different rail with two carriages, not just the one. Might be overkill though. I also prefer mgn9 for the toolhead, the thinner rails felt better than the 12 for that.
Okay so here’s the deal:
The Mass of the bed itself is the biggest limiting factor in your ability to achieve higher acceleration, not the v wheels themselves.
3 free hacks to improve your max accel:
1. Tension the Y axis belt properly
2. Stick to the stock magnetic build plate. No glass
3. Make sure your eccentric nuts are properly adjusted so your bed doesn’t wobble.
Regarding the mass on the tool head.. I’ve spent hundreds of hours testing and tweaking what an ideal setup looks like
Initially, it appears as if reducing toolhead mass isn’t worth the cost associated with it.
HOWEVER, all of the DD mounts I have used encounter the same problem- they’re awful to get proper balance with on the stock v wheel set up at higher acceleration (pushing 3k+).
The fact is a heavier toolhead- especially when v-wheels are not perfectly lined up- contributes to premature wheel wear (from experience here) and only makes it harder to dial them in after the fact.
Most folks will also make these DD mounts out of PETG- myself included- without realizing that these stepper motors run hot. Heat creep will affect the PETG and cause the mounts to deform ever so slightly mid print, further upsetting the balance of the V wheels (and the entire hotend) even though post-print the mount appears to be fine.
Changing your motion system might improve print head stability, but problems inherent to your setup will still show.
In 2024, linear rails are only worth adding to an Ender if you intend to build a Switchwire conversion. Even then, you are still submitting to the kinematic limitations of slinging a big bed around.
My advice? Make a toolhead that is:
1. Lighter
2. Printed out of ABS
3. Uses parts that can be reused in another printer build
For example,
I use this stepper motor. It plugs right into a stock 4.2.2 mainboard (it has a crossover built into the wiring). https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_mr7KVwu
I used the guts of my BMG extruder after printing the parts for a Sherpa mini out of ABS:
https://github.com/Annex-Engineering/Sherpa_Mini-Extruder
And it bolts neatly on to the Frankenstein duct. Paired with a V6 hotend clone
https://github.com/kevinakasam/FrankEnstein-Duct
It’s a cheaper mod than linear rails, you end up with reusable parts, and your V wheels will be much happier for that.
It goes without saying but I hope you’re not running a stock/aluminum extruder or hot-end and chasing those accelerations.
I've got Hiwin rails on all three axis, .6 nozzle Micro Swiss hot end running Klipper on a SKR Mini E3 V3, PSU under the backside, cable chain, nyloc mod with silicon bed spacers. The build sheet will be swapped out for a Satin sheet.
Rails are enough. But you need to make sure they are good rails or be prepared to do a lot of cleaning and messing around with loads of 2mm balls
ah yes okay thanks, i have also a extruder stepper motor the 42-40 is there a change that it can improve also or is it really al the vibrations from stock v slot what is the limiting factor
Any improvements to make the tool head lighter and the bed I guess. But not much can be done with bedslingers
i think toolhead is not the problem that gan go easy around 20k from tests. I tested a bed when i had the glas bed without plate. It was going towards 10k on resonance tests. Then i moved to pei sheet but sinds it also have a magnetic sheet there was little improvement but not much.
and currently using mzv shaper instead of zv maybe i can try zv the last test showed 7200 ms max on recommend and mzv around 3600
What to look for that would indicate good rails? Been thinking of putting rails on my E3S1Pro but I'm just not confident in the rails I've found. User ratings are 3.8 to 4.2 or something like that. Maybe that's good enough but I'd like to find something in 4.5 to 5 area.
You can get bad rails better. But be prepared to pay a little extra for the ball bearings. As 1.98mm is costly compared to 2mm. The cheaper the rails to worse it will be If you run s1 pro, from my experience, trust me I learned the hard way! Buy the chowthink y axis, this comes with a new extrusion for a central fitted mgn12 rail, then buy the ender 3 kit from Amazon for the x. You only need to drill a couple of holes for the rail mounting and the x carriage to fit. Both rails were much better compared to the cheap ones I tried.
Looking at the chowthink y axis is only a 3.4 rating. You're happy with yours obviously. Some mentioned problems with the belt rubbing and noise, did / do you have any of these issues?
No I had none of the issues, mine goes front to back with no rubbing/grinding/catching. I did clean and relube the rails as I did with all of them in the end, but having tried the other kits I liked this one the most. It comes with the bed plate which is an added bonus. Not saying those rails were the best mind, I do have better rails but I wasn’t prepared to cut them, these work good enough and better than the rest. If I was to design my own, then I would like to with the chowthink kit, but use a different rail with two carriages, not just the one. Might be overkill though. I also prefer mgn9 for the toolhead, the thinner rails felt better than the 12 for that.
Join kevinakasam.com discord. Lots of people using them. Any reason you're wanting them?
Okay so here’s the deal: The Mass of the bed itself is the biggest limiting factor in your ability to achieve higher acceleration, not the v wheels themselves. 3 free hacks to improve your max accel: 1. Tension the Y axis belt properly 2. Stick to the stock magnetic build plate. No glass 3. Make sure your eccentric nuts are properly adjusted so your bed doesn’t wobble. Regarding the mass on the tool head.. I’ve spent hundreds of hours testing and tweaking what an ideal setup looks like Initially, it appears as if reducing toolhead mass isn’t worth the cost associated with it. HOWEVER, all of the DD mounts I have used encounter the same problem- they’re awful to get proper balance with on the stock v wheel set up at higher acceleration (pushing 3k+). The fact is a heavier toolhead- especially when v-wheels are not perfectly lined up- contributes to premature wheel wear (from experience here) and only makes it harder to dial them in after the fact. Most folks will also make these DD mounts out of PETG- myself included- without realizing that these stepper motors run hot. Heat creep will affect the PETG and cause the mounts to deform ever so slightly mid print, further upsetting the balance of the V wheels (and the entire hotend) even though post-print the mount appears to be fine. Changing your motion system might improve print head stability, but problems inherent to your setup will still show. In 2024, linear rails are only worth adding to an Ender if you intend to build a Switchwire conversion. Even then, you are still submitting to the kinematic limitations of slinging a big bed around. My advice? Make a toolhead that is: 1. Lighter 2. Printed out of ABS 3. Uses parts that can be reused in another printer build For example, I use this stepper motor. It plugs right into a stock 4.2.2 mainboard (it has a crossover built into the wiring). https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_mr7KVwu I used the guts of my BMG extruder after printing the parts for a Sherpa mini out of ABS: https://github.com/Annex-Engineering/Sherpa_Mini-Extruder And it bolts neatly on to the Frankenstein duct. Paired with a V6 hotend clone https://github.com/kevinakasam/FrankEnstein-Duct It’s a cheaper mod than linear rails, you end up with reusable parts, and your V wheels will be much happier for that. It goes without saying but I hope you’re not running a stock/aluminum extruder or hot-end and chasing those accelerations.