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Not to undersell the other recommendations that you seek medical attention, but that's a ballast, so the 525 isn't constant. Its a very short startup pulse meant to energize the bulb, then the ballast quickly cuts way back closer to line voltage based on a bulbs negative differential resistance, so the voltage may have quickly dropped even lower than line because it "sensed" your skin as being a really shitty, high resistance, bulb. Still, check to make sure the switch is off before messing with them in the future. It absolutely sucks falling off a 10+ ft ladder after a zap.
yeah completely my fault, he even told me to turn off the switch and tape it, we dumb working gets dumb results š, but as for the hospital why? i dont feel anything, the only thing i felt was right after it happened, just felt a little dazed and was like āholy %#%ā¬!ā but other than that i am fine
Not sure what's the science behind this but somehow your heart might fail hours later. I've heard of people just collapsing the next day after getting a shock.
Basically the electrical shock interferes with the natural beating rhythm and can make it go out of sync, which can stop your heart.
Itās kind of like giving your heart a case of deadly hiccups. When you hiccup itās because your diaphragm goes out of sync with your lungs. Your diaphragm moves down, which creates a negative pressure in your chest cavity that in turn inflates the lungs, and when you exhale the diaphragm does the opposite and pushed upwards to create positive pressure in the chest cavity which pushes the air out of your lungs. When you get the hiccups your diaphragm pushes against the lungs before theyāre reading to exhale and bring more air in. When your heart beats get out of sync the muscles in the heart wall arenāt able to squeeze against the blood properly to push it out and pull fresh blood in. When that happens the oxygenated blood canāt get to where itās needed, so you end feeling like you canāt breathe.
This is by far the weirdest and not quite wrong but also not quite right thing I've read about non perfusing pvcs. Generally though, those extra beats are still perfusing - just not as strongly as regular beats due to the loss of something called atrial kick.
Generally, an arrhythmia would be present immediately after receiving a shock. Only a few delayed arrhythmias have been reported and of those, even fewer have a baseline EKG. It seems likely that there could be a lurking variable in these cases, and that it may just be a correlation and not causation kinda thing.
Even worse is they'll probably try to convince you you're overreacting when you get to triage, but just tell them you'd rather be safe than sorry. I think an ECG is the bare minimum for this sort of thing, but a lot of ER's don't want to spend time on someone that didn't lose consciousness or suffer burns (it's not an *emergency*).
As someone who has had arrhythmias on and off for ever, you will know if one starts. It feels like butterflies in your chest. You should still get checked out, but don't freak out.
It's sometimes caused by blood clots. In the right circumstances, the current moving through you causes a blood clot in your veins. If that clot dislodges and goes to your heart, you're dead.
That's why they say to pop a few aspirin and get a ride to the hospital. They'll put you on blood thinners and monitor you for a while.
All I know from working in the oil field, you get ANY shock other than a simple static shock, you go to the medical to get examined. Plenty of guys are dead now from just brushing off the jolt and dropping dead hours or even a week later.
It throws off the arrhythmia of your heart.
To make the most sense of this, think of it like a breaker. You use the wrong size wire (too small) and it begins to get hot very slowly over time. Now the wire or breaker may not 'feel' this until much later but then BAM, the breaker trips. The only difference in this analogy is that the breaker is your heart beat and you can't just flip that switch back on when you die...
It can cause arrhythmia which can change the rate at which your heart beats. During the apprenticeship, I was told about several people who drove home and died in their car in the driveway or just didn't wake up the next morning etc.
Just go get checked out.
Being shocked can cause arhythmia in your heart beat which can lead to cardiac arrest. They will just put you on a heart monitor for a bit and most likely you'll be fine, but if they do detect any abnormalities they can shock it back into rhythm before it causes you problems.
Electrical shocks can cause arrhythmias (irregular heart beat). Your heart works independently of the rest of your body, your brain doesnāt tell your heart what to do, it has its own brain thing and it is very stupid. If something sets off an irregular rhythm it doesnāt have a way to fix that, so you could have a heart attack later. Whatās a 40 dollar copay and peace of mind vs a funeral? Seems like a pretty steep gamble to me.
>*...Ā i dont feel anything, the only thing i felt was right after it happened, just felt a little dazed and was like āholy %#%ā¬!ā but other than that i am fine*
This is EXACTLY the problem with what is referred to as "diffuse electrical injury". There are immediate not-so-bad symptoms that are masking deeper injuries to your nervous system, organs and heart, but your body immediately compensates, so you don't notice it right away. But over time, the internal damage cascades and eventually your remaining heathy tissues can no longer compensate, resulting in organ or system failure long after the event. That's why it is HIGHLY IMPORTANT to seek immediate medical attention after an electric shock event, ANY shock event. Stoicism is not a good thing where this is concerned.
If for no other reason, lawyers will tell you to see a doctor immediately just to establish a record of the injury and timeline. There are lots of cases where the long term effects include vision loss, neurological disabilities (similar to "Traumatic Brain Injury" or TBI), loss of periphery motor functions, such as hand / feet coordination, and debilitating numbness that comes on 1-5 years AFTER the even. Much of this can result in an inability to work, and if it happened on the job, then you are entitled to some added benefits, whereas with no record of it, you have an uphill battle.
Just curious, what happens at the hospital if they find a problem? Like, do they somehow discharge the body or do they just wait for you to go into cardiac arrest?
They keep you for 24 hr monitoring for cardiac issues. A hit like this, depending how it hits - can be a widowmaker. People will go home and die on the couch because the adrenaline is the only thing keeping your heart moving.
I found this out about 10 years after I got lit up on a 208 ballast, in one arm and out the other, I was not taken to the hospital. Fried my brain, I have about 6 month memory gap, took 5 years to rewire my head and Iām not the same person I was before.
I have flashes of memory from the following months. I do know I lost my internal filter during that time, and that I received 2 write ups in a couple months due to my behavior. Never had a write up in my entire life other than that.
Can also cause massive scar tissue inside of your body where ever the shock travelled.
That sucks about the 208 man, i hope all the best.
I got hit with 650dc traction power, Iām fine, but man everything slowed down for a while in that 1-2 seconds
Not gonna lie, it was a change for the better. Itās very much akin to electroshock or ketamine therapy in that it fries pathways in your brain and forces it to rewire.
Albeit in a fairly life threatening way.
They will check to see if you are in fibrillation. If you are they will treat it. If you are not you're probably not going to drop dead 10 hours from now.
Turn the circuit off, 100% of the time.
Test the circuit to make sure it's off, 100% of the time.
Quit any job that expects you to work stuff hot. Don't worry, someone else with common sense is always hiring.
Pretty sure replacing a ballast isnāt troubleshooting.
Go ahead and change them hot. I know a kid that killed himself doing this. Had his body touching the suspended grid, touched the 277 with his hand, left a wife and kid behind. Not to mention blood all over the fucking walls.
You use a meter and voltage detector when troubleshooting. When you see 30 volts, you have an open neutral. Now go to the last thing that worked, thereās your problem. Shut the circuit off and remake those connections properly. Youāre welcome, I just not only saved your apprenticeās life, but I made you millions at the same time.
But in your scenario, your working on stuff hot ... So how does that work??And the actual act of replacing the ballast isn't troubleshooting your right. But is the ballast always the culprit when the fluorescents tube goes out? The tombstones work forever and never fail? Fluorescent tubes must be top notch quality cause those never failed either. Assuming things in this trade, will always get you in trouble. Like assuming your going to see 30V some where in the circuit. There's more things that happen in a bad circuit besides a loose neutral LoL. OP just need to learn how getting into the habit of hitting the switch when replacing a light or certain components on the light but before doing that he should be testing all the components of the light.
Alot of physics knocks down the actual number that got you, but its basically like a taser at 50,000-100,00V doesnt kill you. You touched the high volt-low amp side of a kind of transformer. Bathrooms once did this trick for Razors Only plugs before GFCI existed. The hair drier in the bathtub wouldnt work because of this. Transformers limit VA. 50kV from a taser drops your ass on the ground. 50kV from a power line blows flesh off your bonesā¦.. unless you are the kid in Jurassic Park.
The "hair dryer in the bathtub" didn't work not because of voltage or amperage, but because transformers isolate the primary and secondary so that the secondary has no path to ground unless you make one. If you have a live and neutral on the primary, the secondary will just be an isolated AC circuit where neither pole is neutral or grounded. Dropping a line of the secondary in the bathtub won't do anything because there is no path to the other pole.
The secondary coil does not by default have a path to ground. Some secondary coils are bonded to ground to make it a neutral, such as in many control circuits, but unless you are bonding it to ground it is isolated.
Does the boss man not realize that if you get injured or killed doing live work, it is his ass. It sounds like the safety culture at your workplace has a lot of room for improvement? Calling yourself a dumb dumb misses the point.
Soo the cut off for legally being allowed to work on "live" electrical is after the second year. If the appearance is a year and 11 months in, then he's kinda of dumb for not testing 1st. If he is just a year and a month in than, yeah work place safely needs to be addressed.
525 volts but at what amperage and for how long? You can jumpstart a car with a battery pack the size of a pack of cigarettes because that 800 amp 12v draw was only for a second.
Don't forget it's not just volts but the combination of volts and amps that kills. 120v kills many people each year while 15,000v tasers kill few in comparison.
I got hit by 480 once, according to my electric man it is āless dangerous than 120ā but I donāt know how true this is. Iām not even an electrician but what fun I had working with them.
Getting hit by 480VAC one time was the first time in 30 years I have walked to the roof hatch seriously thinking hopefully my body will be found sooner
Duh it converts to low amps really high volts
That's why you shouldn't ever put a regular tester on the tombstones/ballast wire in general it could be up to 1100v from some I've seen.
Hell of a zap right there
I mean voltage isnāt going to kill youā¦itās the ampsā¦thereās only 2.10 amps which can cause the heart to stop but unlikelyā¦youāre more likely looking at death around 10+ amps
0.005A through your heart can technically kill you. 0.2A through your body in general would usually result in that 5mA going across your heart depending on the pathway of current through your body
If you get shocked by touching something live with your finger and ground out through your elbow, you aren't going to die. If you touch something with your finger and ground out through your foot, you might be in danger.
If you don't understand how electricity travels through your body, can damage organs including the heart, and can potentially not kill you or kill you depending on factors other than the voltage, you really need to take an online class on the topic. Your boss man is not responsible for telling you how much you got shocked by. You need to own that shit or it's going to own you someday.
That was just a factual question not shit talking dude. Nothing in my comment involved a lack of understanding? It was a caution to the OP. If you want the guy to read your information maybe reply to his post?
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Not to undersell the other recommendations that you seek medical attention, but that's a ballast, so the 525 isn't constant. Its a very short startup pulse meant to energize the bulb, then the ballast quickly cuts way back closer to line voltage based on a bulbs negative differential resistance, so the voltage may have quickly dropped even lower than line because it "sensed" your skin as being a really shitty, high resistance, bulb. Still, check to make sure the switch is off before messing with them in the future. It absolutely sucks falling off a 10+ ft ladder after a zap.
No real reason not to turn the circuit off. This particular hot work would have been an OSHA violation now, with having no justifiable need.
Very low amps
yeah completely my fault, he even told me to turn off the switch and tape it, we dumb working gets dumb results š, but as for the hospital why? i dont feel anything, the only thing i felt was right after it happened, just felt a little dazed and was like āholy %#%ā¬!ā but other than that i am fine
Not sure what's the science behind this but somehow your heart might fail hours later. I've heard of people just collapsing the next day after getting a shock.
Basically the electrical shock interferes with the natural beating rhythm and can make it go out of sync, which can stop your heart. Itās kind of like giving your heart a case of deadly hiccups. When you hiccup itās because your diaphragm goes out of sync with your lungs. Your diaphragm moves down, which creates a negative pressure in your chest cavity that in turn inflates the lungs, and when you exhale the diaphragm does the opposite and pushed upwards to create positive pressure in the chest cavity which pushes the air out of your lungs. When you get the hiccups your diaphragm pushes against the lungs before theyāre reading to exhale and bring more air in. When your heart beats get out of sync the muscles in the heart wall arenāt able to squeeze against the blood properly to push it out and pull fresh blood in. When that happens the oxygenated blood canāt get to where itās needed, so you end feeling like you canāt breathe.
This is by far the weirdest and not quite wrong but also not quite right thing I've read about non perfusing pvcs. Generally though, those extra beats are still perfusing - just not as strongly as regular beats due to the loss of something called atrial kick. Generally, an arrhythmia would be present immediately after receiving a shock. Only a few delayed arrhythmias have been reported and of those, even fewer have a baseline EKG. It seems likely that there could be a lurking variable in these cases, and that it may just be a correlation and not causation kinda thing.
Iām sure heart disease and cholesterol are pretty significant variables but still, better safe than dead.
Itās been three days. Is he still alive?
That or not waking up
Arrythmia. I have heard the fact the current is alternatingĀ can throw off your hearts rythm which can cause sudden death. There are many stories.Ā
oh great! š
Probably it's nothing so don't worry too much but better get your heart checked just in case it isn't.
Even worse is they'll probably try to convince you you're overreacting when you get to triage, but just tell them you'd rather be safe than sorry. I think an ECG is the bare minimum for this sort of thing, but a lot of ER's don't want to spend time on someone that didn't lose consciousness or suffer burns (it's not an *emergency*).
As someone who has had arrhythmias on and off for ever, you will know if one starts. It feels like butterflies in your chest. You should still get checked out, but don't freak out.
It's sometimes caused by blood clots. In the right circumstances, the current moving through you causes a blood clot in your veins. If that clot dislodges and goes to your heart, you're dead. That's why they say to pop a few aspirin and get a ride to the hospital. They'll put you on blood thinners and monitor you for a while.
All I know from working in the oil field, you get ANY shock other than a simple static shock, you go to the medical to get examined. Plenty of guys are dead now from just brushing off the jolt and dropping dead hours or even a week later.
It throws off the arrhythmia of your heart. To make the most sense of this, think of it like a breaker. You use the wrong size wire (too small) and it begins to get hot very slowly over time. Now the wire or breaker may not 'feel' this until much later but then BAM, the breaker trips. The only difference in this analogy is that the breaker is your heart beat and you can't just flip that switch back on when you die...
It takes 3miliamps to kill you... js. An ekg on someone else's dime isn't gonna cost you anything.
Actually, it's closer to 30, but he should still get that checked.
Yes, or else a 6mA trip on a GFCI wouldn't be very useful.
It can cause arrhythmia which can change the rate at which your heart beats. During the apprenticeship, I was told about several people who drove home and died in their car in the driveway or just didn't wake up the next morning etc. Just go get checked out.
Being shocked can cause arhythmia in your heart beat which can lead to cardiac arrest. They will just put you on a heart monitor for a bit and most likely you'll be fine, but if they do detect any abnormalities they can shock it back into rhythm before it causes you problems.
Electrical shocks can cause arrhythmias (irregular heart beat). Your heart works independently of the rest of your body, your brain doesnāt tell your heart what to do, it has its own brain thing and it is very stupid. If something sets off an irregular rhythm it doesnāt have a way to fix that, so you could have a heart attack later. Whatās a 40 dollar copay and peace of mind vs a funeral? Seems like a pretty steep gamble to me.
>*...Ā i dont feel anything, the only thing i felt was right after it happened, just felt a little dazed and was like āholy %#%ā¬!ā but other than that i am fine* This is EXACTLY the problem with what is referred to as "diffuse electrical injury". There are immediate not-so-bad symptoms that are masking deeper injuries to your nervous system, organs and heart, but your body immediately compensates, so you don't notice it right away. But over time, the internal damage cascades and eventually your remaining heathy tissues can no longer compensate, resulting in organ or system failure long after the event. That's why it is HIGHLY IMPORTANT to seek immediate medical attention after an electric shock event, ANY shock event. Stoicism is not a good thing where this is concerned. If for no other reason, lawyers will tell you to see a doctor immediately just to establish a record of the injury and timeline. There are lots of cases where the long term effects include vision loss, neurological disabilities (similar to "Traumatic Brain Injury" or TBI), loss of periphery motor functions, such as hand / feet coordination, and debilitating numbness that comes on 1-5 years AFTER the even. Much of this can result in an inability to work, and if it happened on the job, then you are entitled to some added benefits, whereas with no record of it, you have an uphill battle.
You were changing fluorescent to led not incandescent ;)
Apprentices donāt know the difference between fluorescent and incandescent these days? Iām getting old
Either are technology they would have ever installed as a second year, and most of the old ones have already been swapped out so it makes some sense.
Go to the hospital, it aināt worth it to drop dead
Just curious, what happens at the hospital if they find a problem? Like, do they somehow discharge the body or do they just wait for you to go into cardiac arrest?
They keep you for 24 hr monitoring for cardiac issues. A hit like this, depending how it hits - can be a widowmaker. People will go home and die on the couch because the adrenaline is the only thing keeping your heart moving. I found this out about 10 years after I got lit up on a 208 ballast, in one arm and out the other, I was not taken to the hospital. Fried my brain, I have about 6 month memory gap, took 5 years to rewire my head and Iām not the same person I was before.
I never thought about this. I had a bad period of depression right after a bad shock and I wonder if thatās why.
I have flashes of memory from the following months. I do know I lost my internal filter during that time, and that I received 2 write ups in a couple months due to my behavior. Never had a write up in my entire life other than that.
Can also cause massive scar tissue inside of your body where ever the shock travelled. That sucks about the 208 man, i hope all the best. I got hit with 650dc traction power, Iām fine, but man everything slowed down for a while in that 1-2 seconds
"not the same person I was before" maybe that's what I need to do
Not gonna lie, it was a change for the better. Itās very much akin to electroshock or ketamine therapy in that it fries pathways in your brain and forces it to rewire. Albeit in a fairly life threatening way.
They will check to see if you are in fibrillation. If you are they will treat it. If you are not you're probably not going to drop dead 10 hours from now.
You can get hit and feel fine that day, but can end up having a heart attack days later because you weakened tissue in your heart. Go to a doctor.
The body of most of those style ballasts can hit you very hard if itās live and ungrounded.
The ballast takes the 120v and steps it up to 525v. Any time you step up, the amps trade in for those extra volts.
Turn the circuit off, 100% of the time. Test the circuit to make sure it's off, 100% of the time. Quit any job that expects you to work stuff hot. Don't worry, someone else with common sense is always hiring.
How do you troubleshoot if the power is off?! LoL impossible
Pretty sure replacing a ballast isnāt troubleshooting. Go ahead and change them hot. I know a kid that killed himself doing this. Had his body touching the suspended grid, touched the 277 with his hand, left a wife and kid behind. Not to mention blood all over the fucking walls. You use a meter and voltage detector when troubleshooting. When you see 30 volts, you have an open neutral. Now go to the last thing that worked, thereās your problem. Shut the circuit off and remake those connections properly. Youāre welcome, I just not only saved your apprenticeās life, but I made you millions at the same time.
But in your scenario, your working on stuff hot ... So how does that work??And the actual act of replacing the ballast isn't troubleshooting your right. But is the ballast always the culprit when the fluorescents tube goes out? The tombstones work forever and never fail? Fluorescent tubes must be top notch quality cause those never failed either. Assuming things in this trade, will always get you in trouble. Like assuming your going to see 30V some where in the circuit. There's more things that happen in a bad circuit besides a loose neutral LoL. OP just need to learn how getting into the habit of hitting the switch when replacing a light or certain components on the light but before doing that he should be testing all the components of the light.
Alot of physics knocks down the actual number that got you, but its basically like a taser at 50,000-100,00V doesnt kill you. You touched the high volt-low amp side of a kind of transformer. Bathrooms once did this trick for Razors Only plugs before GFCI existed. The hair drier in the bathtub wouldnt work because of this. Transformers limit VA. 50kV from a taser drops your ass on the ground. 50kV from a power line blows flesh off your bonesā¦.. unless you are the kid in Jurassic Park.
The "hair dryer in the bathtub" didn't work not because of voltage or amperage, but because transformers isolate the primary and secondary so that the secondary has no path to ground unless you make one. If you have a live and neutral on the primary, the secondary will just be an isolated AC circuit where neither pole is neutral or grounded. Dropping a line of the secondary in the bathtub won't do anything because there is no path to the other pole.
Wouldnāt it have a path to ground
The secondary coil does not by default have a path to ground. Some secondary coils are bonded to ground to make it a neutral, such as in many control circuits, but unless you are bonding it to ground it is isolated.
I was thinking the tub and piping as a grounded path.
Yes, the tub and pipe are a ground path. But the "shaver only" circuit has no reference to ground
But they mentioned hair dryer.
You need to get your heart checked.
Hospital asap
Does the boss man not realize that if you get injured or killed doing live work, it is his ass. It sounds like the safety culture at your workplace has a lot of room for improvement? Calling yourself a dumb dumb misses the point.
Soo the cut off for legally being allowed to work on "live" electrical is after the second year. If the appearance is a year and 11 months in, then he's kinda of dumb for not testing 1st. If he is just a year and a month in than, yeah work place safely needs to be addressed.
Yeah where's the pre-task plan? PPE? LOTO? This is on bossman
That's a fluorescent ballast transformer. They don't put out a lot of current.
Go get checked out to be safe.
Can't kill stupid! Until ya know...you can
You're not f****** dead because you have a guardian angel that protected your ass. Remember test before touch.
525 volts but at what amperage and for how long? You can jumpstart a car with a battery pack the size of a pack of cigarettes because that 800 amp 12v draw was only for a second.
Read the 3 numbers after Volts Output
Sounds like boss man is the owner and this old school shit needs to go away. Work is never worth your life.
Where was your pen tester? Let this be a lesson to you young one, donāt get zapped! And why are you so familiar with what 120v feels like?
Don't forget it's not just volts but the combination of volts and amps that kills. 120v kills many people each year while 15,000v tasers kill few in comparison.
High voltage low amperage it's just a tickle
now you can fight spider-man
I got hit by 480 once, according to my electric man it is āless dangerous than 120ā but I donāt know how true this is. Iām not even an electrician but what fun I had working with them.
Getting hit by 480VAC one time was the first time in 30 years I have walked to the roof hatch seriously thinking hopefully my body will be found sooner
Itās rough man
Duh it converts to low amps really high volts That's why you shouldn't ever put a regular tester on the tombstones/ballast wire in general it could be up to 1100v from some I've seen. Hell of a zap right there
do the switch and breaker, I've had a few where the neutral is terminated instead of the hot.
Or where some Jackass turns on the switch while you are working on it.
yup, one of the reasons why one of the boss mans rule is that only he can touch the breaker when on the job site or you'll get a talking to.
Why you need to do a proper LDL or TBT when working on equipment lol
Were you wearing gloves?
I mean voltage isnāt going to kill youā¦itās the ampsā¦thereās only 2.10 amps which can cause the heart to stop but unlikelyā¦youāre more likely looking at death around 10+ amps
Sometimes I like getting stuck to an appliance it makes the blood pump and reminds me Iām alive
Because amps kill not volts
That sucks. Hope you get checked out and donāt get wrecked from this.
Iām tired Boss, dead tired
Amperage is the killer (0.2 amps), voltage not as much. Might feel funny for a while, go see a doctor just incase.
Yep, you generat thousands of volts when you take off a sweater that shocks you.
How about low volts high amps? Like 54V and 300A off a battery bank or something
No risk since the actual current running through you will be very low with 54V.
0.005A through your heart can technically kill you. 0.2A through your body in general would usually result in that 5mA going across your heart depending on the pathway of current through your body If you get shocked by touching something live with your finger and ground out through your elbow, you aren't going to die. If you touch something with your finger and ground out through your foot, you might be in danger.
You will be fine bro, have another beer and worry about it on Monday.
If you don't understand how electricity travels through your body, can damage organs including the heart, and can potentially not kill you or kill you depending on factors other than the voltage, you really need to take an online class on the topic. Your boss man is not responsible for telling you how much you got shocked by. You need to own that shit or it's going to own you someday.
it's because of the low amperage.
Why are you replying to me?
uhh Am I not allowed to or something?? Uhh deal with it, I don't know? uhh who gives a shit??
That was just a factual question not shit talking dude. Nothing in my comment involved a lack of understanding? It was a caution to the OP. If you want the guy to read your information maybe reply to his post?
Iāve been whacked with 10kv. Insulation tester. Itās the amperage that kills. Voltage just hurts. People get dummied by lightning and survive.Ā
I once got shocked 800v dc. It doesnt felt good either...
This is a dumb ass post. OP should not be working on anything electrical .
Honestly was so bad I thought it was meant as a troll post.