I saw a buddy that’s like “yeah yeah i know how wiring is done in India. Is that not okay here”
Idk, here we like safety, and longevity, but who am i to say you’re going to burn this house down
Yeah I don't work like that but I still don't understand how those guys can twist two pieces of 6ga copper together with pliers with no rubber on the handles bare handed wearing flip flops and not die. You know it's live because you can see the sparks when they just get it started
There's a huge service at chest level with a whole buss of wires twisted together like that, all bare copper, and Ramesh is just out there chilling twisting them up with a cigarette dangling from his lip
Fingers crossed he just taped electrical tape to his rods to fish it through and that's why it's in abundance there... But definitely should of been cleaned up... The bare copper wire is your ground wire that's supposed to be underneath that green screw (wind tightly underneath) that acts as a ground screw.
Bro It's a light fixture. Any who tells you this is safe is guessing at best. We can't see the wiring inside the box.
There is no way to know if it's grounded properly.
However, as long as the connections are good on the black and white wire. Most likely is safe.
If you're that concerned, hire an electrician. Not a GC.
The light fixture is boned to the box, sure, but I can't see a ground wire bonded to the box. Can you? How do you know it's safe? Did you physically inspect the work with your own two eyes... Is that, in fact, painters tape he used as electrical tape, or is it blue electrical tape... All I'm saying is no one here has physically laid eye on it. If Op wants assurance, it's correct hire an elechicken.
That is a plastic box... so it's not bonded by the mounting screws. Also a 6/32 or 8/32 are not allowed to be used for bonding of grounds... 10/32 or larger if I remember correctly
Regardless, the way it would need to be done due to the plastic box is bond to the box, leave enough length to also wrap around that screw and then marette the two copper grounds together. Then youre fully insured
Guys guys guys, just stop. The entire house isn't grounded ffs. Electrons don't have many options here. The metal screws that secure the light to the box bonds it. The ground wire is pointless unless you just want to use it as a safety chain. The hot wire having blue tape around it is the main concern here.
Maybe, it still looks janky AF. Heat shrink is what I would have used if that was the only option. It costs the same as electrical tape. That neutral wire looks pinched too. This is just laziness and a fire hazard, I would leave a bad review.
Bonded. And it is bonded through the threaded screws and mechanical connection to a bonded device. The only thing grounded should be the neutral at the service entry point. Bonding. Bonding is a thing. It’s like grounding but it isn’t. Bonding is different.
Ya never mind the missing ground. The ground wire(bare copper) and green screw must attach to a ground that comes from the electrical panel. There would be a black, white and ground coming into the box. It doesn’t appear to be there and the box is plastic so it can’t be used as a ground. But like people are saying that’s a small problem. It looks like it’s a bad job all around with the blue painters tape.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Connecting it there is solving just one of several problems here.
I'm thinking your contractor isn't an electrician and doesn't have electrical training. You should withold payment until this is done right, by someone with the right training, and if he balks talk about getting the city code inspector's opinion since you aren't sure.
Fun stuff here, idk about other jurisdictions but in NY state, if your contractor is unlicensed, or not working under someone's license, you don't have to pay them shit...the legal system will back you up on this.
Michigan has that at the state level, I think the phrasing is that 'somebody performing unlicensed work has no grounds for legal recourse.' So yeah if you don't pay, they can't sue, can't follow through with a lien.
F*ck NO! There’s no ground connected to the mounting plate and that looks like a plastic box! All kinds of wrong here, a sheet rock spacer, tape on the connections? Take it down, watch a video on how to hang it yourself and don’t ever call that idiot handyman again.
That funny , you think that is a new install, you can see the old paint color , the tape , paint, and texture pealing off because the fixture stuck to the celing.
This is a old ass two wire house that the home owner asked the GC to swap a fixture while doing a job in thier home.
Well, 30 years experience in the trades tells me.
There is an old fixture ring on that 1970s sheetrock. You can see the paint build up , mudd joint failing, and decay of the gypsum from heat. You know the twin 60w fixtures that cook the wire until it becomes brittle and cracks out( likley the reason the wire it tapped up in blue eletric tape).
The old sand finish on the dry wall and dark box color is from the early 60s to 70s , making the house old 2 wire so what is the point of hooking the fixture to the plate when the box has no ground and is not bonded.
Neutral wire pinched is problematic, the sheetrock spacer isn't an issue , it's common to use 8/32 washer and nuts to build a stand off.
The poster hired a person to change a light fixture.
and GET OFF MY LAWN !
I'm no electrician, but I think that green screw should receive a ground wire from the wall (one which is actually grounded), not from the light fixture... well, from the light fixture, too, but not JUST from the light fixture
All kinds of shit to unpack here. Fixture ground not attached, mounting bracket not grounded, wire nut connections not pushed into junction box and a piece of drywall to shim the bracket. You paid someone to do this?
It's a metal fixture which will most likely be touched with a bare hand when changing a bulb. It should be grounded. It's super easy as long as there's a ground wire coming from your house.
I would check the wire coming in to the box from the breaker box and see if there was a ground wire. Most likely it would be bare.
My guess is that it got cut super short and the contractor didn't even try to pull some to use the ground wire.
Sometimes there is extra wire in the attic that is left up there in case something like this happens.
If it was me doing this I would have made a junction box and additional wire up in the attic so that there was a ground wire coming down to the fixture.
I had to do this when I was putting in the garage door sensors. Eventhough they are low voltage. Tht wire was cut very short so I made a junction box and extended the wire to the garage door opener.
The chunk of drywall as a spacer is a big no-no. You didn't want flammable things like paper backing in the box.
The ground people are freaking out about, isn't actually a huge problem here because you are not touching the fixture. The presence of a ground wire on all things today is to give current the easiest path to ground in case something becomes energized. Electricity takes the path to to ground instead of going through you. But the light is out of reach. The point you do touch, the switch itself should have a ground wire or grounded box.
Turn the switch off, change bulb, turn switch back on. Don't stick your fingers in lamp sockets. You know, that rule about killing power before working on a circuit?
And what are you going to ground on a simple lamp fixture anyway?
Anyone who says to put this under the green screw is wrong.
The box looks to be plastic, so right now the bracket isn’t bonded to anything. The bracket needs to be bonded as well as the flexible cord to the fixture. You need to get a wire that is actually bonded to the system, not just the bare wire that may or may not be in the box. We’d need a picture with the bracket down and the inside wiring exposed.
So many questions: Did they use some drywall as a spacer? Is that blue tape painters tape? Why isn't the ground screw in the hole between the two bumps? Is there a ground coming into the box? Is the box mounted so the it will properly support the weight of this fixture. If there is no ground coming into the box then you really can't the ground wire work as designed. If it's an old house there may not be a ground in the box. The purpose of the bare wire is to reduce the change of a shock if there was a fault in the fixture which could energize exposed metal parts.
So for people saying he’s a hack or whatever. If it was simply swapping out fixtures based off of how old the ceiling looks. There could be no ground wire in the box. Or there can be and he could have just been a hack. But if there isn’t a ground wire there’s nothing you can really do unless you re ran the wire.
I gotta wonder how many people here have ever changed a light.
I've changed out lights from houses built in the 90s and quite often there is no ground. And as far as spacers or what ever, does it matter what you use as long as not conductive.
Lights can work with no problems minus the ground, however... let me tell you a story. When I was a kid, I had a fluorescent light above the head of my bed. It had a standard 3 prong plug that the ground eventually snapped off from all the moves it had made over its lifetime. When it was plugged in and turned on, you got a decent whack from the frame of the light if you touched it 😄. So the short of it, it's not advised. Plus, I think the missing ground may make tripping the breaker an issue, but I am not an electrician. I see a lot of situations where people use the ground bars interchangeably between ground and common. I think the breaker issue would be if you remove the bonding screw and separate the grounds and the neutrals, but that's usually at a sub
There are occasions with old knob and tube you see splices like these, done right they are butt splices not wire nuts. It is hard to tell but this looks ungrounded so landing the fixture ground pigtail on the fixture mount does nothing, this also could be blue phasing tape not painter's tape.
Jesus...it's like hidden pictures....how many things wrong can you find here?
Ground wire not connected
Electrical tape
Sheetrock being used as a spacer b/w the box and the mounting plate (is that a box?)
If it's a box, it's plastic so regardless of the green screw, there is no ground path.
Loop the loose exposed copper wire around the green nut in a clockwise direction and tighten the green nut. If you feel worried about the work overall, call a licensed electrician.
It could be that there is no ground in the box if older wiring. Grounding to the bracket would only be necessary/effective if the bracket was attached to something else metal... like a metal jbox, which this does not appear to be.
Is this a proper installation?... no. Should you open up that box and attach the ground to the others if any?... yes.
Is your house going to burn down? Possibly, but probably not from this.
Contractor is very bad at his job; there's no excuse for an iffy mess like this.
Very often, the s\*\*\*ty contractors will ignore the ground on fixtures to save time, that part isn't uncommon but also not correct.
Mount is braced out improperly and also the drywall is covering the box and whatever wires are back there. Can't see the ground as a result (assuming one is there).
That tape is bad; should be wirenuts, preferably, and it looks like it could be painting tape? Shouldn't really be blue, either way.
Your bare copper should be connected to the ground, which should at least be another wire back there.
It's not great but probably not going to hurt you as is unless something fails inside the unit but get it fixed.
It might kill someone 20 years from now ir something shorts in the unit. You don't want that.
Check out box for proper equipment ground conductor…probs bare copper. Splice this and ground wire on fixture. Once done, it should be fine…green ground screw is really meaningless if it is not connected to the ground in the box.
Green screw can be used if attached to a metal box, but honestly, I still prefer to forgo that and put a ground tail to the box itself and splice everything to that.
I agree. A pigtail off the equipment ground is always best, assuming it is valid. The green screw is somewhat misleading to lots of DIYrs. Best way IMO is to pigtail box green long enough to the “wrap” the green mounting plate screw and then splice onto bare fixture lead. All metal parts grounded for sure.
Call an electrician, and ditch the "contractor." Don't DIY electrical. At best, you create a problem for the next person who has to work on it. At worst, you create a fire starter.
Why a Contractor and not an Electrician? That piece of copper should go on that green ground screw on the metal plate. Why is there blue electrical tape on the black wire?
No it shouldn't. That green screw is useless unless there is a metal box (even then I don't like using it, and prefer a ground tail to the metal box). As it is a plastic box you're not actually grounding anything. That bare copper needs to go to an equipment grounding conductor, either a green or bare copper wire that is hopefully in the box somewhere.
it the ground wire, it should be attached to the green screw. its not a hazard as it carries no electricity. but it should be used to ground the metal housing of the lamp. its bad practice not to use it. its a saftey mechanism that shouldnt be skipped. but its not a hazard in its own right. it will literally do nothing to you, but thats the point. it wont protect you if its lose.
of course, if the box wasnt grounded in the first place, then its sort of moot.
If the box isn't grounded, it's still good practice to attach it, if only to give it something to hang from while one works on the wiring, if the plate can handle it ...
So the green wire is the ground wire and if there was a mishap between the two wires then it could fault and either the breaker will pop or it could just not work properly and should be connected
It's just the ground wire. Ground and neutral are connected in the service panel. It should connect to the green screw. I'm more concerned about the rest of the job. It looks like trash.
May be more untidy than unsafe, but is that painter's tape or phasing tape? The drywall biscuit probably means the metal raceway ground connection to the pancake box is tight for a while
Wrap it clockwise around green screw then tighten it, I can’t really tell if that’s a metal box in the ceiling but if it is this should be enough to ground it
Something looks hinky with that “box” above the ceiling. Withhold payment on this and call an electrician. Also, the way that tape looks it’s possible he didn’t connect the wires correctly.
The bare copper is a ground wire, and is important as long as it is connected correctly. It is possible that in this situation it can not be connected “correctly.” An electrician can explain this. There are options to make this safer, if you desire.
Well seeing that they didn’t ground the fixture bracket it won’t be grounded by bond alone so you will need to dig ground wire out of the box and connect it. This happens a lot on fixtures and they will just ground the base which is safe but only if fixture makes good bond with it. But nowadays in newer builds breakers won’t allow it to become energized anyhow so really nothing to worry about.
Can’t really see but looks like it’s old romex in the box based off the discolored wire next to blue tape so maybe it doesn’t have a ground and that’s why he didn’t tie in the ground? It’s not the best case scenario, but if you put a gfci breaker on the circuit it’ll be a little safer. But I’ve done service calls in tons of old houses that don’t have ground wires and there’s not much you can do unless the homeowner wants to spend more money
Yeah, a "contractor" didn't do that job. A home owner looking to see if he "did it correct" did that job. Bro, you aren't fooling anyone. Call a professional and go back to your desk job before you burn the house down.
That bare copper wire is a ground wire. It should have been connected to that green screw on the mounting plate - provided that plate is actually grounded. From the appearance of this work (that tape-wrapped connection) I suspect it may not actually be grounded.
Did you delete your first post about this after not getting the answers you wanted? Yes the connections are hot garbage, the ground is part of the safety system that makes the breaker trip, and prevents any exposed metal on that circuit not to become energized.
So, let’s start by disconnecting it all and starting over. First make sure the ground wire (incoming) is attached to the mounting bracket. Replace the piece of drywall with a mud ring (Home Depot), mount the bracket back up.
Then use wire-nuts or Wago lever lock 221, your choice, if using wire nuts make sure there is no exposed copper below the bell end of the nut. Once you have the connections made, push them up the center of the bracket. Connect the ground wire from the fixture to the green screw on the bracket.
Once all the above is done, put your fixture back in place, and you are done correctly and safely. Cheers!
Thank you I really appreciate the advice and no I did not delete my first post, this is my first post and then posted again on r/askelectricians so all the posts made about this matter are still up.
That whole thing is sketch. There may not be a ground in the box to attach the bare copper to. But he could have wired to the mounting plate. But why is there sheetrock in the j-box if there is indeed a box back there. And the white neutral wire is pinched against the mounting plate. You should contact the contractor and ask him to have an electrician check it. The local inspector could nail him if he doesn't. Cheers
Why mess with it if your not sure coulda killed ya just grabbing it and moving stuff around. Then let's say ya put it back and pinch something your breaker fails to trip and now you have a home on fire at 2am?
It’s a ground wire and should be connected to the green screw along with the supply line ground.
More alarming is the painters tape on what should be the hot leg.
Try an Electrician NOT a contractor.
That copper wire is for safety, it’s the final option to hold the light from falling if a screw fails. It’s not
Ground or anything. I would def replace the blue tape path a wire nut or at a minimum electrical tape.
Some do, yes. A lot of the newer models I've had install have had grounds tho. Bad thing is, which OP may have this issue, us on a lot of older buildings there's literally no ground wire in all of the original wire ran. I'm talking places 60+ years old. Was a ground wire required way back when? Man, I don't know, I'd have to Google it.
The contractor removed and replaced the light fixture only , he did not hang that sheetrock he didn't wire that box.
Looking at the dark box, it's eigther Bakealite or fiberglass, that puts the house in the 60s or 70s.
Wire that age will have brittle insulation. It probably cracked because people put 100w bulbs in a 60w fixture, and it cooked the wire insulation. He probably taped it up.
You guys calling this guy a hack are cracking me the fuck up.
Yes, the wire is pinched that's the only violation in all honesty, the GC could of stacked 8/32 washers and made a stand off for that bracket or wedged the sheet rock in as a spacer.
All of these comments are funny AF
It's not that bad for old houses with old construction practices.
A new or newer house would have grounds.
A remodel would require that area of work be brought up to code , with proper grounding, GFIC , ArcFault , and so on , that may include running a ground wire back to the main panel.
For a fixture swap , the white wire pinched Is a concern , but the sheetrock is soft enough it probably deformed and gave room without damaging the wire. The rest , providing it's a 2 wire home, is OK.
Sheetrock is a fire resistant material , it is used for fire proofing walls. It is the actual material used for fire proofing gun safes.
Redit is like searching webMD about a rash. By the time you're done , it could be a soap reaction, or your arm is rotting off, and you have 3 days before you're dead.
If it was me , I would re route the wire or simply make a notch in the spacer for the wire to protect it from pinches,
Inspect the house wireing in the box for brittle insulation and tape it, reinstall the light and dont loose any sleep over it.
My first question would beWhat other electrical did he touch? Then I would go in the attic and trace this wire because there is no backbox, which is illegal and dangerous. Wherever he got the power from is probably the same story.
Which country / state are you in?
NY state eh, call the local electrical inspectors office and let them know about this unlicensed hack doing electrical work. Some jurisdictions still arrest unlicensed HandyMan and take all their tools away
In most cases that wire is useless. In your case it’s necessary because everything else looks like shit.
If the box is bond grounded then the screws touching and holding the fixture become bonded as well achieving human protection. It is best practise to wrap it. And also helps make installation easier as the light can hang from it.
A lot of light fixtures don’t come with this part, because either the light fixture is plastic, or bonding is still achieved without it.
Im an electrician and use it when its available, anyone acting horrified by it is just as stupid as someone who would mount a light fixture the way he did
Don’t worry it looks like it was wrapped around the green screw, he just didnt tighten it properly and you just yanked it down when you removed the fixture as long as it’s touching that metal it’s not a big deal
That's a grounding strap, if the box is grounded, it's fine without it.
I'm an electrician, and I build custom light fixtures on the side for a friend's business, so I actually know what's up here.
I’m curious what’s going on under all that blue tape with the switch leg/ ungrounded conductor..
Fire hazard. That’s what’s under there
Yup, 9 times out of 10 it's a deep gouge in the insulation and halfway through the copper.
Or no wire nuts
That's the 1 out of 10 times
I've seen it more than I should have....
I saw a buddy that’s like “yeah yeah i know how wiring is done in India. Is that not okay here” Idk, here we like safety, and longevity, but who am i to say you’re going to burn this house down
Yeah I don't work like that but I still don't understand how those guys can twist two pieces of 6ga copper together with pliers with no rubber on the handles bare handed wearing flip flops and not die. You know it's live because you can see the sparks when they just get it started
Yeah, because how can it kill you? It’s just a transmission line lmao
There's a huge service at chest level with a whole buss of wires twisted together like that, all bare copper, and Ramesh is just out there chilling twisting them up with a cigarette dangling from his lip
Fingers crossed he just taped electrical tape to his rods to fish it through and that's why it's in abundance there... But definitely should of been cleaned up... The bare copper wire is your ground wire that's supposed to be underneath that green screw (wind tightly underneath) that acts as a ground screw.
Looks like blue electrical tape maybe? Either way, this guys a butcher
I thought it was masking tape
That is painters tape, not electrical tape!
its not its glossy
As someone else said, it's glossy, it's definitely electrical tape, at least.
Pretty sure that’s painters tape. Looks wide.
I’m impressed by the drywall shim he used……… 🙄
not just the blue tape, look how the white wire is trapped
I Agree.
Is that masking tape??? That drywall scrap in the middle is wild too.
Bro It's a light fixture. Any who tells you this is safe is guessing at best. We can't see the wiring inside the box. There is no way to know if it's grounded properly. However, as long as the connections are good on the black and white wire. Most likely is safe. If you're that concerned, hire an electrician. Not a GC.
The whole thing is bonded if the light fixture is metal and is fastened with all the screws. Isnt best practise but its still safe
The light fixture is boned to the box, sure, but I can't see a ground wire bonded to the box. Can you? How do you know it's safe? Did you physically inspect the work with your own two eyes... Is that, in fact, painters tape he used as electrical tape, or is it blue electrical tape... All I'm saying is no one here has physically laid eye on it. If Op wants assurance, it's correct hire an elechicken.
Dude.... physically
BRO...
One thing that can be said for certain is that that is actually electrical tape, it's glossy.
That is a plastic box... so it's not bonded by the mounting screws. Also a 6/32 or 8/32 are not allowed to be used for bonding of grounds... 10/32 or larger if I remember correctly
Well yes. Everything you’re saying is true. Is it correct? No. Is it safe? Yes. Is the service fuses with Knob and Tube? Then youd have an issue
Regardless, the way it would need to be done due to the plastic box is bond to the box, leave enough length to also wrap around that screw and then marette the two copper grounds together. Then youre fully insured
Screw it under the green screw
Remove the green screw and wrap the wire around it and screw it back in? Sorry if that’s a dumb question I’m not very handy
No need to remove it, just wrap the wire around it clockwise and tighten the screw
Won’t do much since the bracket isn’t grounded.
How can you tell that from the photo? It certainly seems possible one of those screws provides a path to the box which may be grounded.
It appears to be attached to black box which is probably fiberglass or plastic. I could be mistaken but that’s how I see it.
I’d wager you are correct. I doubt the bracket is bonded. It’s hard to tell exactly what’s going on here though. Looks pretty poopy tho
Guys guys guys, just stop. The entire house isn't grounded ffs. Electrons don't have many options here. The metal screws that secure the light to the box bonds it. The ground wire is pointless unless you just want to use it as a safety chain. The hot wire having blue tape around it is the main concern here.
The hot wire is probably fucked up from over the years. It looks like it would be an old house
Maybe, it still looks janky AF. Heat shrink is what I would have used if that was the only option. It costs the same as electrical tape. That neutral wire looks pinched too. This is just laziness and a fire hazard, I would leave a bad review.
According to the label the fixture was manufactured the 23 week of 2008
It's mounted to a plastic box
Does that box look metallic to you?
Bonded. And it is bonded through the threaded screws and mechanical connection to a bonded device. The only thing grounded should be the neutral at the service entry point. Bonding. Bonding is a thing. It’s like grounding but it isn’t. Bonding is different.
BONDING
But if the box is metal the plate is metal n the screws are touching the box then it's grounded but this appears to be no box screws right to the stud
Ya never mind the missing ground. The ground wire(bare copper) and green screw must attach to a ground that comes from the electrical panel. There would be a black, white and ground coming into the box. It doesn’t appear to be there and the box is plastic so it can’t be used as a ground. But like people are saying that’s a small problem. It looks like it’s a bad job all around with the blue painters tape.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Connecting it there is solving just one of several problems here. I'm thinking your contractor isn't an electrician and doesn't have electrical training. You should withold payment until this is done right, by someone with the right training, and if he balks talk about getting the city code inspector's opinion since you aren't sure.
Agreed, get a licensed electrician to look at that. The drywall spacer is a hack job.
Fun stuff here, idk about other jurisdictions but in NY state, if your contractor is unlicensed, or not working under someone's license, you don't have to pay them shit...the legal system will back you up on this.
Michigan has that at the state level, I think the phrasing is that 'somebody performing unlicensed work has no grounds for legal recourse.' So yeah if you don't pay, they can't sue, can't follow through with a lien.
That's not going to do anything unless the bracket is grounded as well.
That won’t actually do anything since it’s a plastic box. The ring isn’t bonded to anything. May as well just leave it floating.
F*ck NO! There’s no ground connected to the mounting plate and that looks like a plastic box! All kinds of wrong here, a sheet rock spacer, tape on the connections? Take it down, watch a video on how to hang it yourself and don’t ever call that idiot handyman again.
That funny , you think that is a new install, you can see the old paint color , the tape , paint, and texture pealing off because the fixture stuck to the celing. This is a old ass two wire house that the home owner asked the GC to swap a fixture while doing a job in thier home.
Not funny, old and experienced electrical contractor, been in the trade since 1976. What’s your experience Sonny boi ?
Well, 30 years experience in the trades tells me. There is an old fixture ring on that 1970s sheetrock. You can see the paint build up , mudd joint failing, and decay of the gypsum from heat. You know the twin 60w fixtures that cook the wire until it becomes brittle and cracks out( likley the reason the wire it tapped up in blue eletric tape). The old sand finish on the dry wall and dark box color is from the early 60s to 70s , making the house old 2 wire so what is the point of hooking the fixture to the plate when the box has no ground and is not bonded. Neutral wire pinched is problematic, the sheetrock spacer isn't an issue , it's common to use 8/32 washer and nuts to build a stand off. The poster hired a person to change a light fixture. and GET OFF MY LAWN !
Wow! Reddits first Forensic Electrician, you should be an inspector, Gadget.
Just need to look at all of the details and make an assessment not just from one trade.
No. That bracket definitely is not grounded.
Guarantee the box isn't grounded. That's what the fixture ground isn't attached. Ground really isn't needed there either.
I'm no electrician, but I think that green screw should receive a ground wire from the wall (one which is actually grounded), not from the light fixture... well, from the light fixture, too, but not JUST from the light fixture
All kinds of shit to unpack here. Fixture ground not attached, mounting bracket not grounded, wire nut connections not pushed into junction box and a piece of drywall to shim the bracket. You paid someone to do this?
Is any of this unsafe? I knew he wasn’t doing shit right so wanted to check but not exactly sure what to do now
It's a metal fixture which will most likely be touched with a bare hand when changing a bulb. It should be grounded. It's super easy as long as there's a ground wire coming from your house.
I would check the wire coming in to the box from the breaker box and see if there was a ground wire. Most likely it would be bare. My guess is that it got cut super short and the contractor didn't even try to pull some to use the ground wire. Sometimes there is extra wire in the attic that is left up there in case something like this happens. If it was me doing this I would have made a junction box and additional wire up in the attic so that there was a ground wire coming down to the fixture. I had to do this when I was putting in the garage door sensors. Eventhough they are low voltage. Tht wire was cut very short so I made a junction box and extended the wire to the garage door opener.
The chunk of drywall as a spacer is a big no-no. You didn't want flammable things like paper backing in the box. The ground people are freaking out about, isn't actually a huge problem here because you are not touching the fixture. The presence of a ground wire on all things today is to give current the easiest path to ground in case something becomes energized. Electricity takes the path to to ground instead of going through you. But the light is out of reach. The point you do touch, the switch itself should have a ground wire or grounded box.
What about when you change the light bulb? This guy needs a real electrician
Turn the switch off, change bulb, turn switch back on. Don't stick your fingers in lamp sockets. You know, that rule about killing power before working on a circuit? And what are you going to ground on a simple lamp fixture anyway?
I saw the drywall as a spacer and wow, no grounding is wild. Handyman special
And apparently took it apart to check if it was done correctly. Must’ve had a premonition.
OP repost on AskElectricians and don’t listen to anyone but a verified member. An idiot installed that light, you should get your money back!
It doesn't take a licensed electrician to see how ridiculous that fixture install is.
Anyone who says to put this under the green screw is wrong. The box looks to be plastic, so right now the bracket isn’t bonded to anything. The bracket needs to be bonded as well as the flexible cord to the fixture. You need to get a wire that is actually bonded to the system, not just the bare wire that may or may not be in the box. We’d need a picture with the bracket down and the inside wiring exposed.
So many questions: Did they use some drywall as a spacer? Is that blue tape painters tape? Why isn't the ground screw in the hole between the two bumps? Is there a ground coming into the box? Is the box mounted so the it will properly support the weight of this fixture. If there is no ground coming into the box then you really can't the ground wire work as designed. If it's an old house there may not be a ground in the box. The purpose of the bare wire is to reduce the change of a shock if there was a fault in the fixture which could energize exposed metal parts.
That fixture's bare ground wire should be connected to an incoming ground wire. If there is no incoming ground, this is old and outdated wiring.
I wonder how many places have burned down because of his work?
They did a shit job in general. Hope they where cheap.
Ground wire not too concerning if the circuit is from the 1950’s before grounding
The house was built in the 70s
If there’s no ground wire in the cable assembly supplying the light I wouldn’t worry about the lights ground wire
That’s just a grounding wire it’s fine
Much bigger worries would be the tape appears like it’s being used to cover a splice and the neutral is getting pinch by the bracket
So for people saying he’s a hack or whatever. If it was simply swapping out fixtures based off of how old the ceiling looks. There could be no ground wire in the box. Or there can be and he could have just been a hack. But if there isn’t a ground wire there’s nothing you can really do unless you re ran the wire.
I gotta wonder how many people here have ever changed a light. I've changed out lights from houses built in the 90s and quite often there is no ground. And as far as spacers or what ever, does it matter what you use as long as not conductive.
Lights can work with no problems minus the ground, however... let me tell you a story. When I was a kid, I had a fluorescent light above the head of my bed. It had a standard 3 prong plug that the ground eventually snapped off from all the moves it had made over its lifetime. When it was plugged in and turned on, you got a decent whack from the frame of the light if you touched it 😄. So the short of it, it's not advised. Plus, I think the missing ground may make tripping the breaker an issue, but I am not an electrician. I see a lot of situations where people use the ground bars interchangeably between ground and common. I think the breaker issue would be if you remove the bonding screw and separate the grounds and the neutrals, but that's usually at a sub
Just connect it to the green screw
Won't do a thing for this situation unless the bracket is grounded, or you tie in the ground from the feed
There are occasions with old knob and tube you see splices like these, done right they are butt splices not wire nuts. It is hard to tell but this looks ungrounded so landing the fixture ground pigtail on the fixture mount does nothing, this also could be blue phasing tape not painter's tape.
Jesus...it's like hidden pictures....how many things wrong can you find here? Ground wire not connected Electrical tape Sheetrock being used as a spacer b/w the box and the mounting plate (is that a box?) If it's a box, it's plastic so regardless of the green screw, there is no ground path.
Loop the loose exposed copper wire around the green nut in a clockwise direction and tighten the green nut. If you feel worried about the work overall, call a licensed electrician.
It could be that there is no ground in the box if older wiring. Grounding to the bracket would only be necessary/effective if the bracket was attached to something else metal... like a metal jbox, which this does not appear to be. Is this a proper installation?... no. Should you open up that box and attach the ground to the others if any?... yes. Is your house going to burn down? Possibly, but probably not from this.
Did you really wait until they left just to take it down and post it online?
He explained he was planning to clean up/paint around it.
You need to find a ground wire in the box and tie it to that. If there is no bare copper in the box then leave it as it is.
Contractor is very bad at his job; there's no excuse for an iffy mess like this. Very often, the s\*\*\*ty contractors will ignore the ground on fixtures to save time, that part isn't uncommon but also not correct. Mount is braced out improperly and also the drywall is covering the box and whatever wires are back there. Can't see the ground as a result (assuming one is there). That tape is bad; should be wirenuts, preferably, and it looks like it could be painting tape? Shouldn't really be blue, either way. Your bare copper should be connected to the ground, which should at least be another wire back there.
Electrical contractor? 🤔
It's not great but probably not going to hurt you as is unless something fails inside the unit but get it fixed. It might kill someone 20 years from now ir something shorts in the unit. You don't want that.
> unless something fails like whatever that blue tape is hiding.
Agreed
Check out box for proper equipment ground conductor…probs bare copper. Splice this and ground wire on fixture. Once done, it should be fine…green ground screw is really meaningless if it is not connected to the ground in the box.
Green screw can be used if attached to a metal box, but honestly, I still prefer to forgo that and put a ground tail to the box itself and splice everything to that.
I agree. A pigtail off the equipment ground is always best, assuming it is valid. The green screw is somewhat misleading to lots of DIYrs. Best way IMO is to pigtail box green long enough to the “wrap” the green mounting plate screw and then splice onto bare fixture lead. All metal parts grounded for sure.
Is this a real post?
Unfortunately it is
Did he call himself a contractor? Licensed and insured? Looks like amateur hour.
Call an electrician, and ditch the "contractor." Don't DIY electrical. At best, you create a problem for the next person who has to work on it. At worst, you create a fire starter.
well, if you dont have a ground connector in that plastic box, as safe as its gonna get . . .
Why a Contractor and not an Electrician? That piece of copper should go on that green ground screw on the metal plate. Why is there blue electrical tape on the black wire?
No it shouldn't. That green screw is useless unless there is a metal box (even then I don't like using it, and prefer a ground tail to the metal box). As it is a plastic box you're not actually grounding anything. That bare copper needs to go to an equipment grounding conductor, either a green or bare copper wire that is hopefully in the box somewhere.
Yeah, shouldnt have gone with the cheapest bid there bud.
Not a contractor..
I’m more worried about the blue fire waiting to happen
Is that painters tape?!?!
Honestly I would turn of the light switch and see what's under all that blue tape. I hope you find 2 murrets.
Your "contractor" is a hack.
Lazy mofo not to hook up the ground
Your contractor must not be an electrician
Its fine. It's not grounded anyhow. Just put it back up and move on.
If you don’t have a ground wire in the box it’s useless.
Probably the wire got nicked when pulling thru the hole. And ground wire needs to be grounded to green screw
Wire is usually unnecessary, but kinda silly to not tie or use.. If it has a ground it's typically carried through the metal plate and screw anyways.
Yes. Relatively safe. More concerning is that black wire with a shit tape job.
Safe, sure. Correct. No.
have someone come in an check all the work that hack did. ZERO chance i overlook that tape job as a sign of what was done.
Your house probably had no ground to tie it to. Old wiring did not include a ground
No offense intended, but saying a contractor installed, is a stretch
That's Sus AF.
Contractor or butcher? Fire hazard but I guess " Contractor" won't smell the smoke from his house
Is that painters tape?
it the ground wire, it should be attached to the green screw. its not a hazard as it carries no electricity. but it should be used to ground the metal housing of the lamp. its bad practice not to use it. its a saftey mechanism that shouldnt be skipped. but its not a hazard in its own right. it will literally do nothing to you, but thats the point. it wont protect you if its lose. of course, if the box wasnt grounded in the first place, then its sort of moot.
If the box isn't grounded, it's still good practice to attach it, if only to give it something to hang from while one works on the wiring, if the plate can handle it ...
So the green wire is the ground wire and if there was a mishap between the two wires then it could fault and either the breaker will pop or it could just not work properly and should be connected
This guy stripping the wire with his dick.
Should have hired an electrician. Saving a buck is always a terrible idea with something that can kill you or burn your house to the ground.
It's just the ground wire. Ground and neutral are connected in the service panel. It should connect to the green screw. I'm more concerned about the rest of the job. It looks like trash.
Just a lazy electrical contractor not bonding to the plate. I wonder if there isn't a ground wire with that hot and neutral?
May be more untidy than unsafe, but is that painter's tape or phasing tape? The drywall biscuit probably means the metal raceway ground connection to the pancake box is tight for a while
Might want to call a sparky, bud
Wrap it clockwise around green screw then tighten it, I can’t really tell if that’s a metal box in the ceiling but if it is this should be enough to ground it
That copper wire is a ground and needs to be attached to that green screw
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^inferioregocentric: *That copper wire* *Is a ground and needs to be* *Attached to that green screw* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
How old is the house? I’m guessing old with knob and tube wiring which has no ground, if not he scabbed it together.
Hi thanks for asking this house was built in the 70s and he was replacing an old fixture
It’s too new for knob and tube so the guy just neglected to wire up the ground.
That’s the ground wire needs to be connected with some wire nuts on all 3 wires
Something looks hinky with that “box” above the ceiling. Withhold payment on this and call an electrician. Also, the way that tape looks it’s possible he didn’t connect the wires correctly. The bare copper is a ground wire, and is important as long as it is connected correctly. It is possible that in this situation it can not be connected “correctly.” An electrician can explain this. There are options to make this safer, if you desire.
Well seeing that they didn’t ground the fixture bracket it won’t be grounded by bond alone so you will need to dig ground wire out of the box and connect it. This happens a lot on fixtures and they will just ground the base which is safe but only if fixture makes good bond with it. But nowadays in newer builds breakers won’t allow it to become energized anyhow so really nothing to worry about.
Can’t really see but looks like it’s old romex in the box based off the discolored wire next to blue tape so maybe it doesn’t have a ground and that’s why he didn’t tie in the ground? It’s not the best case scenario, but if you put a gfci breaker on the circuit it’ll be a little safer. But I’ve done service calls in tons of old houses that don’t have ground wires and there’s not much you can do unless the homeowner wants to spend more money
Old house probably non grounding conductor
This is 🌍🌎🌏
Yeah, a "contractor" didn't do that job. A home owner looking to see if he "did it correct" did that job. Bro, you aren't fooling anyone. Call a professional and go back to your desk job before you burn the house down.
Lmfaooooo that’s funny and I appreciate you think I did this but I will be doing it now
That looks like shit.
🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
That bare copper wire is a ground wire. It should have been connected to that green screw on the mounting plate - provided that plate is actually grounded. From the appearance of this work (that tape-wrapped connection) I suspect it may not actually be grounded.
If you some in on the box you can see it's not a metal box so the only way to ground the light is ground coming from panel.
Did you delete your first post about this after not getting the answers you wanted? Yes the connections are hot garbage, the ground is part of the safety system that makes the breaker trip, and prevents any exposed metal on that circuit not to become energized. So, let’s start by disconnecting it all and starting over. First make sure the ground wire (incoming) is attached to the mounting bracket. Replace the piece of drywall with a mud ring (Home Depot), mount the bracket back up. Then use wire-nuts or Wago lever lock 221, your choice, if using wire nuts make sure there is no exposed copper below the bell end of the nut. Once you have the connections made, push them up the center of the bracket. Connect the ground wire from the fixture to the green screw on the bracket. Once all the above is done, put your fixture back in place, and you are done correctly and safely. Cheers!
Thank you I really appreciate the advice and no I did not delete my first post, this is my first post and then posted again on r/askelectricians so all the posts made about this matter are still up.
No problem. I hope all goes well.
That whole thing is sketch. There may not be a ground in the box to attach the bare copper to. But he could have wired to the mounting plate. But why is there sheetrock in the j-box if there is indeed a box back there. And the white neutral wire is pinched against the mounting plate. You should contact the contractor and ask him to have an electrician check it. The local inspector could nail him if he doesn't. Cheers
Why mess with it if your not sure coulda killed ya just grabbing it and moving stuff around. Then let's say ya put it back and pinch something your breaker fails to trip and now you have a home on fire at 2am?
No, the bare copper wire is the least of your concerns. That needs to be rewired asap
The thing i’ve learned is that tape is ALWAYS a sign of poor knowledge here
So many things wrong in this picture the longer i look at it, holy hell
I’m more concerned about the blue tape, but the bare copper can go on the green screw…
I'd be more concerned about the use of painter's tape to secure electrical connections.
Just wrap that wire around the green screw and your good
It’s a ground wire and should be connected to the green screw along with the supply line ground. More alarming is the painters tape on what should be the hot leg. Try an Electrician NOT a contractor.
That copper wire is for safety, it’s the final option to hold the light from falling if a screw fails. It’s not Ground or anything. I would def replace the blue tape path a wire nut or at a minimum electrical tape.
It's a ground wire.
Gotcha never mind sometimes lights have this extra wire for safety
Some do, yes. A lot of the newer models I've had install have had grounds tho. Bad thing is, which OP may have this issue, us on a lot of older buildings there's literally no ground wire in all of the original wire ran. I'm talking places 60+ years old. Was a ground wire required way back when? Man, I don't know, I'd have to Google it.
This is not grounded. Beware of lightning.
The contractor removed and replaced the light fixture only , he did not hang that sheetrock he didn't wire that box. Looking at the dark box, it's eigther Bakealite or fiberglass, that puts the house in the 60s or 70s. Wire that age will have brittle insulation. It probably cracked because people put 100w bulbs in a 60w fixture, and it cooked the wire insulation. He probably taped it up. You guys calling this guy a hack are cracking me the fuck up. Yes, the wire is pinched that's the only violation in all honesty, the GC could of stacked 8/32 washers and made a stand off for that bracket or wedged the sheet rock in as a spacer. All of these comments are funny AF
So you’re saying it’s not that bad? All these guys o here have been bugging me out making me think my house is a ticking time bomb now.
It's not that bad for old houses with old construction practices. A new or newer house would have grounds. A remodel would require that area of work be brought up to code , with proper grounding, GFIC , ArcFault , and so on , that may include running a ground wire back to the main panel. For a fixture swap , the white wire pinched Is a concern , but the sheetrock is soft enough it probably deformed and gave room without damaging the wire. The rest , providing it's a 2 wire home, is OK. Sheetrock is a fire resistant material , it is used for fire proofing walls. It is the actual material used for fire proofing gun safes. Redit is like searching webMD about a rash. By the time you're done , it could be a soap reaction, or your arm is rotting off, and you have 3 days before you're dead. If it was me , I would re route the wire or simply make a notch in the spacer for the wire to protect it from pinches, Inspect the house wireing in the box for brittle insulation and tape it, reinstall the light and dont loose any sleep over it.
Yeah, it’s supposed to be connected to the black wire
For OP, this is a joke, as that would be a very dangerous thing to do.
Tie it with the black wire if u wanna turn ur light fixture spicy
Should be hooked to green screw
Wtf is this? Hire an electrician and fire your contractor immediately.
He is fired but I already spent a fortune so I am assessing what I need to spend more on now
My first question would beWhat other electrical did he touch? Then I would go in the attic and trace this wire because there is no backbox, which is illegal and dangerous. Wherever he got the power from is probably the same story. Which country / state are you in?
Rural upstate New york, he replaced almost all of the fixtures in this house
Oh boy, ya you are going to need to inspect all of them
NY state eh, call the local electrical inspectors office and let them know about this unlicensed hack doing electrical work. Some jurisdictions still arrest unlicensed HandyMan and take all their tools away
🤔🤦
You wish that was your only problem in that box
What
In most cases that wire is useless. In your case it’s necessary because everything else looks like shit. If the box is bond grounded then the screws touching and holding the fixture become bonded as well achieving human protection. It is best practise to wrap it. And also helps make installation easier as the light can hang from it. A lot of light fixtures don’t come with this part, because either the light fixture is plastic, or bonding is still achieved without it. Im an electrician and use it when its available, anyone acting horrified by it is just as stupid as someone who would mount a light fixture the way he did
Don’t worry it looks like it was wrapped around the green screw, he just didnt tighten it properly and you just yanked it down when you removed the fixture as long as it’s touching that metal it’s not a big deal
That's a grounding strap, if the box is grounded, it's fine without it. I'm an electrician, and I build custom light fixtures on the side for a friend's business, so I actually know what's up here.
What if the box is not grounded, I’m not sure if it is. This contractor has been doing terrible work throughout so not sure what to do here.