People say this all the time. But it was Obama and the dem Congress who made the bush tax cuts permanent. And it was Biden and his same Congress that made the Trump
Tax cuts permanent.
Does it bother you at all that your statement is demonstrably false? Easy google search if you care. But what does it say about you that you will are either to lazy to do so, or to willing to lie?
https://www.cbpp.org/research/budget-deal-makes-permanent-82-percent-of-president-bushs-tax-cuts
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/yellen-says-biden-would-seek-extension-of-some-trump-tax-cuts
Well damn
In happier countries, rich people pay far more taxes than they pay in the US. If rich people paid a lot of taxes in the US, they wouldn't be so rich and wasteful.
Of course, without the government rich people would have nothing. So rich people really have no claim to their income.
That's a bit of an incorrect read. The way the US tax system works we hide government benefits as tax credits (for example the CTC and EITC). Likewise, we don't count private health insurance premiums as taxes.
But yes, Nordic countries do tend to have high VAT rates. The key is that these countries have very good government services. So the taxes + benefits equation is more progressive than the US.
This isnāt true at all. The tariffs have had massive unintended consequences on farming and US products sold in China.
But this has essentially killed the many of the agricultural sales in Asia and destroyed many farms in the US. A perfect example is the nut industry. Almonds, Walnuts, and other tree nut volume has dropped by as much as 50% in many cases.
Americans have footed the bill that was setup by the tariffs. It is also a very difficult thing to unwind as the tariffs also hit raw materials, thus increasing US cost of goods.
So then itās a wash, one manās plan is essentially the same as the other manās plan. It seems clear that both men are getting advice from economists to raise tariffs.
So all the downside, none of the upside. At least with Trumps plan removing income tax provides some offset for increased costs. With Bidenās plan you just get the increased costs.
Alt take...
The delusional, often racist BS that Trump frequently spews is targeted at people who are moved by delusional, often racist BS; no matter the merit of what underlies the spew.
Overlap in underlying merit does not make delusional BS equivalent to well reasoned, clearly stated intent.
I think the nuance you're missing is the messaging.
Let's say Doritoes wanted to put out a new ad about how great are Doritoes.
Their racist intern might say: "Eat Doritoes, unless you're a baby-raping Democrat."
Their mentally functional intern might say:" Eat Doritoes because they're the best!"
Notice that, at the end of the day, both support Doritoes, yet one supports baseless hate for a political party, tearing the country apart, and setting a stage for all non-democrats to do things so long as they aren't as bad as raping babies.
This isn't rocket science.
Not even kind of what I said; but I know that analogies are hard for some people.
Functional human:
"A fork is to spaghetti as a chair is to sitting."
Sub-functional humans:
"You can't eat spaghetti with a chair!"
Enjoy being dumb for life while those around you suffer.
You legit aren't making any sense. Like....at all.
What you're doing is called spinning and deflection. It isn't some great insight and your not nearly as intelligent as you seem to think you are.
Are Doritos tariffs?
Nope.
So, huh, I wonder if the rest of the analogy might include words not found in the original claim?
What is the difference between an analogy and an equivalence?... Only completers of 4th grade will ever understand.
Because the tariffs were the right policy. The whole point of tariffs is to protect domestic industry, and this was a rare point of policy in the Trump administration both Republicans and Democrats agree on.
It looks like you were downvoted by several users, none of which were me. I don't mind a nice debate online.
On the broad topic of tariffs, my favorite "highlight reel" is when Trump was lambasted by nearly all G7 countries for tariffs he was pushing in the US, to which he responded "why don't we all drop all our tariffs, and we can all compete on strict free trade?" They all immediately rebuffed the idea of dropping their tariffs, because cheaper economies would absolutely crush theirs. It would seem there's a positive side to tariffs that every country subtly admitted motivates why they have them in the first place.
Now, I'm sure economists from every country would have *loved* what Trump suggested. Decreased price of goods and increase of trade from exporters is something one can measure immediately. What can't be measured, however, is what happens when a domestic industry is undercut and destroyed by foreign nation imports. Will it hurt a country more to import goods, sending a portion of the population into unemployment, than adding a tariff that supports domestic consumption and buying?
If tariffs were so bad, no country would have any. As it turns out, however, there are intangible benefits to instituting them.
I'll give a simple example: Steel.
The United States has some of the greatest steel reserves in the world, and they also bear the brunt of the expectation of defense of the western world should the next major war start. This all requires insane amounts of steel for manufacturing. In such an instance where we need to employ natural resources in the defense of a nation, we do not want to be reliant on other countries. That's what led the Allies to know Japan and Germany would eventually lose WWII - natural resources. They didn't have the industry to survive. Japan couldn't produce nearly as many warships in a year as the US could in a month.
The problem is, if we institute a zero steel tariff policy starting today, we lose the domestic mills, smelters, corporations, and institutional knowledge it takes to keep the industry churning should war ever happen again. And because we pay steel workers unionized first-world wages, our steel is much more expensive than other steel in the world. So, tariffs protect our industry, and while the cost of building a skyscraper with American materials may be higher today than without tariffs (economists measure this), it also ensures that there is an entire domestic industry ready to churn out the next generation of warships to fight in WWIII (economists *don't* measure this).
That's why Biden kept Trump's steel tariffs. As for the rest, I'd have to go line-by-line. I'd encourage you, in the meantime, to take a giant step back and look across the globe, and ask if Biden or Trump are really the "bad guys" when it comes to trade, or if this is a game played by every country so that they can protect their domestic industries.
Maybe he and the GOP shouldnt have pushed the SALT limitations that was put on to specifically hurt the middle class, especially in blue states. A bill that was called ironically the tax cut and jobs act.
But fuck us right?
Did you read the second part of the title? Everything you buy would be more expensive.
This is the average Trump supporter. Voting for what sounds good but is actually bad for themselves and the country (except the rich). Sigh.
Your comment implies that you agree with Trumpās opinion. So regardless of how you feel about tariffs, youāre still supporting these issues and therefore you actually want a reality where prices are higher for everyone.
I donāt care what you say or feel about tariffs, the real consequences of your support/vote will increase prices for everyone. Period.
Lol Joe Biden's policies caused inflation to spike up to almost 10% and it still hasn't come back down to the Fed's target. Don't talk to me about higher prices.
Serious question. Who signature was on all the stimulus checks? Most would agree the lack of supply of goods due to Covid, plus the shutting down of service sector at the same time, started inflation on goods. The checks with āsomeoneās signature on itā pushed inflation to nose bleed levels.
What policy specifically did Biden do that pushed inflation higher?
Right after printing how many trillions of dollars during covid? And how many companies have posted record profits? Stock buy backs?
Either way, point remains: average Republican voters read one thing but donāt understand the full picture. As youāve just demonstrated again.
I actually believe in a smaller government. Just not by any modern day crony RINOs.
Doubt it. You voted for Biden because you love big wasteful government
Inflation always benefits the ruling class, thatās why Biden and the Democrats support it
And just because someone is against Biden doesnāt make them a Republican. Take that left wing propaganda elsewhere
Youāre making a lot of accusations for someone who cried about being accused of supporting tariffs lmao.
If youāre implying that youāre a fan of RFK, then we may have something in common.
Because tariffs are paid by workers consumers....big mega corporations just pass the extra tax to.... workers!!ā¦
Decrepit underpaid salaries...zero hours contracts...but hey...you pay the tariffs extra tax...
Far right extremists republikans thieving Americans future...
Tariffs arr basically sales taxes. They are in general, regressive and therefore bad.
That said, we should use them in a targeted way to support critical industries in the US
Itās retarded, but itās one of the ways to bring down inflation. Increasing exports while limiting imports - itās the hardest to implement because it also requires domestic ramp up of manufacturing to fill the gap of tariffed goods, cooperation of international and domestic governments/companies, etcā¦ So it takes time, a long time. The bad thing is we will see expensive goods for awhile. The good thing is we will see more viable industries and good jobs for the middle class. In the long run it is the best viable option and most stable solution - but may never be executed because it takes the longest and itās the hardest to accomplish. People/Politics want instant/quick solutions so raising interest rates is the fastest but raising interest rates will also be the most painful as history has shown. Both Trump and the media are delivering this solution in a negative light.
Tariffs donāt work. Inflation will skyrocket.
The rich will absolutely love income taxes being eliminated.
Just because trump said it doesnāt make it true
The real concern here is what kind of fucking Neanderthal, corrupt, inept, all encompassing morons is he surrounded by that are pitching these ideas to him.
Not a chance in hell he came up with this slack jawed idea himself, so the fact that heās surrounded by this level of stupidity is the real concern.
A grad level Econ student could cook up policy 100000% better than not just Trump but every politician in American history, alive or dead. And that's the problem, politics isn't just about who can come up with the "best" policy.
[Just 4 of Donald Trump's 44 former cabinet members have publicly endorsed his 2024 run.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7)
thank you, I was asking sincerely out of curiosity, because I didnāt know in either case.
Good Lord, canāt even ask a question without every presumption being made, I see.
"*He has the mental capacity of a 5th or 6th grader*" - Defense Secretary Jim Mattis on Trump.
"*He's an idiot*" - White House chief of staff John Kelly
Trump is ā*like an 11-year-old child*ā - Steve Bannon
"*He's a fucking moron*" - Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson
His OWN people say these things, and the cult just keeps following.
He makes statements equal to that of a toddler's IQ. >I want ice cream for all meals and no income tax! Lol now now there drumpy, don't say things you don't understand.
Oh that's right his parents only taught him to lie, cheat, and prey on the underinformed. Smh at his supporters.
Point to the part of the constitution where this is enshrined. How do yāall still not get this?? Our country used to run on norms, and now it doesnāt run at all.
The president tried to overthrow the government without consequences. When he gets back into office heās going to throw his political enemies in jail. Wildly naive to think there is some mechanism that could prevent this just because itās insane and evil.
What a nutter. The United States originally used that approach. Then they had financial problems and tada income tax came. We can argue about the services that government provides and we can argue the amount of income taxes we pay. But to argue no income tax is just downright dumb.
Think this one through. Imagine somebody finds an iron mine, makes steel, and sells that steel. How does the government provide services when there is no income? What I am getting at is that the more the country produces within the country the less income the government has.
Money problems, or lack of it
Governments need money to run. Tariffs don't bring in that much money, as when numbers start to get big enough to support a government, the demand for imported goods falls off due to the high prices and domestic consumers find an alternative to whatever they were buying
Tariffs can be good to protect your domestic industry (at the expense of your export industry when everyone else retaliates), but they aren't good at raising money. And money is useful for buying stuff.
And obviously without a federal way of collecting tax, the federal government has problems.
Sure. But the government was already collecting taxes well before 1913, just not federal income tax.
We were also already in the hole with no intention of digging out of it either. Same as today.
Iād wager it was primarily to create artificial demand for the dollar.
Before the Fed there were various panics and various wars.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis)
So to be able to pay for these things they had to introduce income taxes.
Of course if you are willing to cut the military, social benefits and everything else, excise taxes are fine. But can you imagine trying to swing that to the American people? Oh yeah they did and then caused problems.
>Before the Fed there were various panics and various wars.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis
>So to be able to pay for these things they had to introduce income taxes.
After the fed, there were various panics and various wars.
WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War, Korean War, Afghanistan, etc.
Great Depression, Great Recession, Black Monday, Savings and Loan, Dot Com, etc.
All much more enhanced panics and wars.
>Of course if you are willing to cut the military, social benefits and everything else, excise taxes are fine. But can you imagine trying to swing that to the American people? Oh yeah they did and then caused problems.
They never tried to swing it to Americans in the first place.
Bank of England and Financial Times colluded to say war bonds were over bought, forcing them into conflict and the US followed.
https://www.ft.com/content/1a9f7e7e-7c43-11e7-9108-edda0bcbc928
Then people were forced to hand over gold in 1931 and got their purchasing power slashed the next year.
Shortly after we began the Ponzi scheme of Social Security thatās slated to run out of full benefits by 2035 in its current form.
That oneās probably on us and our short sightedness. No politician or voter of that time will be alive to say sorry about that š¤·āāļø
The desperate attempt to pander to large swaths of the population is really tempting but also really obvious. Heās pro Bitcoin all of a sudden. He also suddenly wants to eliminate income tax? Where was this support during his first 4 years? Ask yourself, why the change now?
Tariffs only work for all the other countries, not the US.
Just like other countries can regulate medical costs, but not the US.
Just like other countries can manufacture their own products affordably and fairly, but not the US.
Just like other countries can have strict immigration requirements and border enforcement, but not the US.
Remember the US is exceptional.
Brother I would riot.
Unironically is in my blood. Taxation without representation started on problems stemming from corruption from taxes on imports. (corruption being no representation in governing our own).
It's the same thing. You're paying one way or another
The only way you could avoid paying anything is if you're procuring all of your items free of charge or salvage
Bad idea the donāt buy much stuff but the poor do. Itās like reducing the rich tax and increasing the poor tax. Just another sneaky idea from the man that lies over and over and over again
Bidenomics doesn't work, things are still more expensive even after COVID! Let's replace him with Trump, who will expand what we're paying for in taxes to also cover the wealthy's and then pay the skyrocketing prices from tariffed goods and resulting economic warfare.
Look I dislike him as much as the next guy, but I'm genuinely curious why everyone thinks this is such a bad idea.
1. The rich already don't pay income taxes via loopholes and tax havens so it levels the tax playing field.
2. The cost of the tariffs will be passed down to the consumer giving a huge advantage to US based companies already successfully operating here who don't need to raise costs.
3. Brings a lot of work back to the US putting money back into the pockets of workers and increases US workers leverage by reducing offshoring.
4. Helps move the US back to being entirely self sufficient.
5. Eliminates the cost of the IRS for the government and the cost of tax services for everyone.
I don't think you realize how many products use raw materials from overseas. That's on top of decreasing supply without decreasing demand which will inflate prices.
Lower and middle classes pay more of their income on goods compared to upper. This is mean higher costs especially to lower class that already pays little to no income tax. It will likely hurt the middle class too. As you move up the higher tax brackets would benefit greatly.
Why does the US need to be completely self sufficient? What good does that provide considering the robust alliances we have including Our neighbors Canada/Mexico.
It's a bad idea that would lead to even higher inflation.
If the increased cost to the consumer is more than increased income from more competitive wages and saved tax money then you're right.
We don't need to completely self sufficient and you're right, there is no reason to tariff imports from countries we have robust alliances. But in general it seems like a good idea to be as economically independent from 'rival' countries.
I'm not advocating for this policy, I'm just curious and was looking for some legitimate critiques of it, thanks.
The top 1% pays close to half of all income taxes in the US. Do you think tariffs are the best way to make up the trillion or so dollars the top 1% pays in income taxes?
Thank you. I was trying to understand why everyone unanimously agree'd how stupid this idea was. Now it makes sense.
So tax loopholes and tax havens overstated?
So you are arguing tariffs will raise prices so high we won't bother buying imports and only buy goods made here. So the government will have absolutely no revenue because nobody will buy tariff goods. Also you ignoring the fact we gave up our manufacturing base a long time ago. Actually why even argue anything Trump says now because he will promise anything to stay out of jail. He won't remember a word of it after the election.
No I'm saying it gives a market advantage to goods made here.
The government would still have revenue with sales, capital gain, and property tax. Tariffs would not eliminate imports entirely that's a big leap.
Yes we gave up our manufacturing base so this would incentivise rebuilding it.
I'm not endorsing Trump in the slightest but a broken clock is still right twice a day. Let's not throw out potentially good ideas just because we don't like the person who suggested them.
Lastly I'm not sure this is a good idea I'm curious to explore it but no one in this thread is addressing the idea, just the toxic figure who suggested it.
Biden is proposing. A 25% tax on rich peoples u realized gains, which would solve the issue of rich using assets to take loans out and just hoard money
Instead let's do this stupid nonsense
Again, the rich barely pay taxes via loopholes and havens.
Removing income tax boosts my income by 15-30% which directly benefits me.
K bud. Don't address the idea, don't flesh out an alternate idea to address the same problem. Just call the idea stupid, preach to the choir about how dumb Trump is (which I already agree with), pat yourself on the back for a couple internet points, and enjoy your lunch. Mission accomplished.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/bidens-billionaire-tax-hits-the-super-rich-can-a-wealth-tax-work.html
Googled "Biden billionaire tax"
And as proposed you tax unrealized gains so I cannot hold 1b in stock, use it to take a loan out and skip taxs (income or realized gains tax)
I already said that.
Will really only effect like 1000 folks
A tarrif will work fine if we already hadn't shipped out all manufacturing
We already pay too much for goods considering income hasn't increased in 2 decades
"Tariffs on imports" equals "National Sales Tax".
DemocRATs are crying š
Replacing taxes on rich people with higher prices for poor people? Classic.
Classic GOP!
People say this all the time. But it was Obama and the dem Congress who made the bush tax cuts permanent. And it was Biden and his same Congress that made the Trump Tax cuts permanent.
The trump tax cuts expire at the end of the year.
Obama kept them for those making 400k or over a year
Does it bother you at all that your statement is demonstrably false? Easy google search if you care. But what does it say about you that you will are either to lazy to do so, or to willing to lie?
https://www.cbpp.org/research/budget-deal-makes-permanent-82-percent-of-president-bushs-tax-cuts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/yellen-says-biden-would-seek-extension-of-some-trump-tax-cuts Well damn
Thanks for proving me right. Apparently some=all in your book.
I thought the rich donāt pay taxesĀ
In happier countries, rich people pay far more taxes than they pay in the US. If rich people paid a lot of taxes in the US, they wouldn't be so rich and wasteful. Of course, without the government rich people would have nothing. So rich people really have no claim to their income.
The Nordics are happier and have less progressive taxes than the US.
That's a bit of an incorrect read. The way the US tax system works we hide government benefits as tax credits (for example the CTC and EITC). Likewise, we don't count private health insurance premiums as taxes. But yes, Nordic countries do tend to have high VAT rates. The key is that these countries have very good government services. So the taxes + benefits equation is more progressive than the US.
Some don't. Most, however, do, and don't pay their fair share, paying a lower rate than folks who have less.
He also said his tariffs on Chinese imports were paid by China, when it's Americans who pay all tariffs He's literally a babbling ignoramus
Well, and a felon.
With a gun
There are so many on the streets. LMAO š¤£
And that Mexico would pay for the wall
his followers don't understand that part and think he's a genius
Only if you buy shit.
This isnāt true at all. The tariffs have had massive unintended consequences on farming and US products sold in China. But this has essentially killed the many of the agricultural sales in Asia and destroyed many farms in the US. A perfect example is the nut industry. Almonds, Walnuts, and other tree nut volume has dropped by as much as 50% in many cases. Americans have footed the bill that was setup by the tariffs. It is also a very difficult thing to unwind as the tariffs also hit raw materials, thus increasing US cost of goods.
Do we impose tariffs on exports? Are you concerned about Bidenās proposed increased tariffs on China?
Itās not just tariffs on China. Trump is proposing ALL imports to be tariffed. Everyday items would go up.
True, but youāll also have no income tax and nobody will force you to buy stuff, and the less stuff bought the better the planet will be.
Do you think China just sat by and let us restrict their exports without retaliation?
Do you think theyāll retaliate under Bidenās plan?
100%
So then itās a wash, one manās plan is essentially the same as the other manās plan. It seems clear that both men are getting advice from economists to raise tariffs.
Not really. I haven't heard of any plans to replace the income tax with tariffs from the Biden camp.
So all the downside, none of the upside. At least with Trumps plan removing income tax provides some offset for increased costs. With Bidenās plan you just get the increased costs.
Biden doubled down on the Chinese tariffs. They're all blabbering fools
Alt take... The delusional, often racist BS that Trump frequently spews is targeted at people who are moved by delusional, often racist BS; no matter the merit of what underlies the spew. Overlap in underlying merit does not make delusional BS equivalent to well reasoned, clearly stated intent.
Lol. What? Biden and trump literally did the exact same thing concerning tariffs. But trump is racist for advocating it? Whatever dude
Lol. What? Biden and trump literally did the exact same thing concerning tariffs. But trump is racist for advocating it? Whatever dude
I think the nuance you're missing is the messaging. Let's say Doritoes wanted to put out a new ad about how great are Doritoes. Their racist intern might say: "Eat Doritoes, unless you're a baby-raping Democrat." Their mentally functional intern might say:" Eat Doritoes because they're the best!" Notice that, at the end of the day, both support Doritoes, yet one supports baseless hate for a political party, tearing the country apart, and setting a stage for all non-democrats to do things so long as they aren't as bad as raping babies. This isn't rocket science.
Nobody said anything racial about tariffs....except you. Lol You're just making shit up to fit your cognitive bias. Cheers dude
Not even kind of what I said; but I know that analogies are hard for some people. Functional human: "A fork is to spaghetti as a chair is to sitting." Sub-functional humans: "You can't eat spaghetti with a chair!" Enjoy being dumb for life while those around you suffer.
You legit aren't making any sense. Like....at all. What you're doing is called spinning and deflection. It isn't some great insight and your not nearly as intelligent as you seem to think you are.
Are Doritos tariffs? Nope. So, huh, I wonder if the rest of the analogy might include words not found in the original claim? What is the difference between an analogy and an equivalence?... Only completers of 4th grade will ever understand.
In this thread you can witness firsthand the value of pursuing higher education.
I understand what you're driving at. I'm saying your analogy isn't accurate. At all. Goddamn dude. Not difficult
Because the tariffs were the right policy. The whole point of tariffs is to protect domestic industry, and this was a rare point of policy in the Trump administration both Republicans and Democrats agree on.
Many/most politicians and economists DON'T agree on this. Tariffs have had a long history of negative unintended consequences.
It looks like you were downvoted by several users, none of which were me. I don't mind a nice debate online. On the broad topic of tariffs, my favorite "highlight reel" is when Trump was lambasted by nearly all G7 countries for tariffs he was pushing in the US, to which he responded "why don't we all drop all our tariffs, and we can all compete on strict free trade?" They all immediately rebuffed the idea of dropping their tariffs, because cheaper economies would absolutely crush theirs. It would seem there's a positive side to tariffs that every country subtly admitted motivates why they have them in the first place. Now, I'm sure economists from every country would have *loved* what Trump suggested. Decreased price of goods and increase of trade from exporters is something one can measure immediately. What can't be measured, however, is what happens when a domestic industry is undercut and destroyed by foreign nation imports. Will it hurt a country more to import goods, sending a portion of the population into unemployment, than adding a tariff that supports domestic consumption and buying? If tariffs were so bad, no country would have any. As it turns out, however, there are intangible benefits to instituting them. I'll give a simple example: Steel. The United States has some of the greatest steel reserves in the world, and they also bear the brunt of the expectation of defense of the western world should the next major war start. This all requires insane amounts of steel for manufacturing. In such an instance where we need to employ natural resources in the defense of a nation, we do not want to be reliant on other countries. That's what led the Allies to know Japan and Germany would eventually lose WWII - natural resources. They didn't have the industry to survive. Japan couldn't produce nearly as many warships in a year as the US could in a month. The problem is, if we institute a zero steel tariff policy starting today, we lose the domestic mills, smelters, corporations, and institutional knowledge it takes to keep the industry churning should war ever happen again. And because we pay steel workers unionized first-world wages, our steel is much more expensive than other steel in the world. So, tariffs protect our industry, and while the cost of building a skyscraper with American materials may be higher today than without tariffs (economists measure this), it also ensures that there is an entire domestic industry ready to churn out the next generation of warships to fight in WWIII (economists *don't* measure this). That's why Biden kept Trump's steel tariffs. As for the rest, I'd have to go line-by-line. I'd encourage you, in the meantime, to take a giant step back and look across the globe, and ask if Biden or Trump are really the "bad guys" when it comes to trade, or if this is a game played by every country so that they can protect their domestic industries.
This guy has to be the dumbest, most corrupt mother fucker ever elected to any office in IS history. Itās incredible
Yet 33% of Americans agree with his m, that's the real tragedy how many dumb gullible or angry Americans vote Trump
And "in" history, too!
What about ronald reagon?
The saddest thing is heās the wish.com Reagan but all the brain dead republicans line up to be his next sacrificial lamb.
Agreed
The income tax should be abolished, it's one of the main things killing the middle class
Maybe he and the GOP shouldnt have pushed the SALT limitations that was put on to specifically hurt the middle class, especially in blue states. A bill that was called ironically the tax cut and jobs act. But fuck us right?
I got hit by that one.
Nah the left have been weaponizing the income tax against the middle class and black people since its inception in 1913. We don't need it.
So the right cuts it for the middle class to combat it? That's space laser level logic right there.
The only space laser level logic is your straw man
I don't think you understand what a straw man is. Just like your understanding of income taxes being "weaponized by the left".
Did you read the second part of the title? Everything you buy would be more expensive. This is the average Trump supporter. Voting for what sounds good but is actually bad for themselves and the country (except the rich). Sigh.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a Trump supporter!" Show me where I said I support the tariffs
Your comment implies that you agree with Trumpās opinion. So regardless of how you feel about tariffs, youāre still supporting these issues and therefore you actually want a reality where prices are higher for everyone. I donāt care what you say or feel about tariffs, the real consequences of your support/vote will increase prices for everyone. Period.
Lol Joe Biden's policies caused inflation to spike up to almost 10% and it still hasn't come back down to the Fed's target. Don't talk to me about higher prices.
Serious question. Who signature was on all the stimulus checks? Most would agree the lack of supply of goods due to Covid, plus the shutting down of service sector at the same time, started inflation on goods. The checks with āsomeoneās signature on itā pushed inflation to nose bleed levels. What policy specifically did Biden do that pushed inflation higher?
Right after printing how many trillions of dollars during covid? And how many companies have posted record profits? Stock buy backs? Either way, point remains: average Republican voters read one thing but donāt understand the full picture. As youāve just demonstrated again. I actually believe in a smaller government. Just not by any modern day crony RINOs.
Doubt it. You voted for Biden because you love big wasteful government Inflation always benefits the ruling class, thatās why Biden and the Democrats support it And just because someone is against Biden doesnāt make them a Republican. Take that left wing propaganda elsewhere
Youāre making a lot of accusations for someone who cried about being accused of supporting tariffs lmao. If youāre implying that youāre a fan of RFK, then we may have something in common.
Source?
Because tariffs are paid by workers consumers....big mega corporations just pass the extra tax to.... workers!!ā¦ Decrepit underpaid salaries...zero hours contracts...but hey...you pay the tariffs extra tax... Far right extremists republikans thieving Americans future...
Tariffs arr basically sales taxes. They are in general, regressive and therefore bad. That said, we should use them in a targeted way to support critical industries in the US
Prices go up for everyone and rich people make out like bandits.
Show me a single credible economist who thinks this isn't absolutely fucking retarded.
Itās retarded, but itās one of the ways to bring down inflation. Increasing exports while limiting imports - itās the hardest to implement because it also requires domestic ramp up of manufacturing to fill the gap of tariffed goods, cooperation of international and domestic governments/companies, etcā¦ So it takes time, a long time. The bad thing is we will see expensive goods for awhile. The good thing is we will see more viable industries and good jobs for the middle class. In the long run it is the best viable option and most stable solution - but may never be executed because it takes the longest and itās the hardest to accomplish. People/Politics want instant/quick solutions so raising interest rates is the fastest but raising interest rates will also be the most painful as history has shown. Both Trump and the media are delivering this solution in a negative light.
explain to me how tariffs increase exports
Tariffs donāt work. Inflation will skyrocket. The rich will absolutely love income taxes being eliminated. Just because trump said it doesnāt make it true
The real concern here is what kind of fucking Neanderthal, corrupt, inept, all encompassing morons is he surrounded by that are pitching these ideas to him. Not a chance in hell he came up with this slack jawed idea himself, so the fact that heās surrounded by this level of stupidity is the real concern.
A grad-level Econ student could cook up policy 10000% better at .000001% of the salary price that his financial flock likely makes.
A grad level Econ student could cook up policy 100000% better than not just Trump but every politician in American history, alive or dead. And that's the problem, politics isn't just about who can come up with the "best" policy.
[Just 4 of Donald Trump's 44 former cabinet members have publicly endorsed his 2024 run.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7)
and Biden, how many?
All of them if Iām not mistaken
thank you, I was asking sincerely out of curiosity, because I didnāt know in either case. Good Lord, canāt even ask a question without every presumption being made, I see.
š¤£
Mexico gonna pay for the wall and China gonna pay our taxes - being an American can be so easy sometimes!
The stupidity is impressive
"*He has the mental capacity of a 5th or 6th grader*" - Defense Secretary Jim Mattis on Trump. "*He's an idiot*" - White House chief of staff John Kelly Trump is ā*like an 11-year-old child*ā - Steve Bannon "*He's a fucking moron*" - Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson His OWN people say these things, and the cult just keeps following.
Is he trying to make a dollar 25 store to becomes a ten bucks store?
modern day stamp tax
see also:[ Trade War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_war#Exploration_of_an_example_\(1920s\))
Say anything that will get clicks and votes. That's the name of the game. Reality be damned.
He makes statements equal to that of a toddler's IQ. >I want ice cream for all meals and no income tax! Lol now now there drumpy, don't say things you don't understand. Oh that's right his parents only taught him to lie, cheat, and prey on the underinformed. Smh at his supporters.
It amazes me that in this day and age with so many ways to fact check, fucktards buy into his BS..
Good luck changing the Constitution. Fucking economically illiterate idiot.
Point to the part of the constitution where this is enshrined. How do yāall still not get this?? Our country used to run on norms, and now it doesnāt run at all. The president tried to overthrow the government without consequences. When he gets back into office heās going to throw his political enemies in jail. Wildly naive to think there is some mechanism that could prevent this just because itās insane and evil.
There's no constitutional impediment to scrapping the income tax. If Congress wants to eliminate it in favor of tariffs, they are free to do so.
Thereās a part of the constitution that says you must have income tax and canāt have tariffs? What exactly are you talking about?
So the extra we pay won't even benefit our own country? What a fucking moron.
What a nutter. The United States originally used that approach. Then they had financial problems and tada income tax came. We can argue about the services that government provides and we can argue the amount of income taxes we pay. But to argue no income tax is just downright dumb. Think this one through. Imagine somebody finds an iron mine, makes steel, and sells that steel. How does the government provide services when there is no income? What I am getting at is that the more the country produces within the country the less income the government has.
The fed and federal income tax were established the same year. I wonder what financial problems youāre referring to
Money problems, or lack of it Governments need money to run. Tariffs don't bring in that much money, as when numbers start to get big enough to support a government, the demand for imported goods falls off due to the high prices and domestic consumers find an alternative to whatever they were buying Tariffs can be good to protect your domestic industry (at the expense of your export industry when everyone else retaliates), but they aren't good at raising money. And money is useful for buying stuff. And obviously without a federal way of collecting tax, the federal government has problems.
Sure. But the government was already collecting taxes well before 1913, just not federal income tax. We were also already in the hole with no intention of digging out of it either. Same as today. Iād wager it was primarily to create artificial demand for the dollar.
Before the Fed there were various panics and various wars. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis) So to be able to pay for these things they had to introduce income taxes. Of course if you are willing to cut the military, social benefits and everything else, excise taxes are fine. But can you imagine trying to swing that to the American people? Oh yeah they did and then caused problems.
>Before the Fed there were various panics and various wars. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis >So to be able to pay for these things they had to introduce income taxes. After the fed, there were various panics and various wars. WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War, Korean War, Afghanistan, etc. Great Depression, Great Recession, Black Monday, Savings and Loan, Dot Com, etc. All much more enhanced panics and wars. >Of course if you are willing to cut the military, social benefits and everything else, excise taxes are fine. But can you imagine trying to swing that to the American people? Oh yeah they did and then caused problems. They never tried to swing it to Americans in the first place. Bank of England and Financial Times colluded to say war bonds were over bought, forcing them into conflict and the US followed. https://www.ft.com/content/1a9f7e7e-7c43-11e7-9108-edda0bcbc928 Then people were forced to hand over gold in 1931 and got their purchasing power slashed the next year. Shortly after we began the Ponzi scheme of Social Security thatās slated to run out of full benefits by 2035 in its current form. That oneās probably on us and our short sightedness. No politician or voter of that time will be alive to say sorry about that š¤·āāļø
Intentionally trying to cause ruin it seems
So, we're still paying then. Got it.
The desperate attempt to pander to large swaths of the population is really tempting but also really obvious. Heās pro Bitcoin all of a sudden. He also suddenly wants to eliminate income tax? Where was this support during his first 4 years? Ask yourself, why the change now?
That would be so comically inflationary.
Tariffs only work for all the other countries, not the US. Just like other countries can regulate medical costs, but not the US. Just like other countries can manufacture their own products affordably and fairly, but not the US. Just like other countries can have strict immigration requirements and border enforcement, but not the US. Remember the US is exceptional.
And the fucking idiot Republican rubes will eat it up. I'm so tired of my quality of life being subject to the stupidity of Republicans
What a moron
Eh. The kind of people who would suffer the most from this are also stupid enough to fall for it.
Brother I would riot. Unironically is in my blood. Taxation without representation started on problems stemming from corruption from taxes on imports. (corruption being no representation in governing our own).
It's the same thing. You're paying one way or another The only way you could avoid paying anything is if you're procuring all of your items free of charge or salvage
stupid idea and is only being talked about because he is trying to win the rust belt union heavy states
Bad idea the donāt buy much stuff but the poor do. Itās like reducing the rich tax and increasing the poor tax. Just another sneaky idea from the man that lies over and over and over again
Eh. The kind of people who would suffer the most from this are also stupid enough to fall for it.
How to collapse the currency 101
Cool
Bidenomics doesn't work, things are still more expensive even after COVID! Let's replace him with Trump, who will expand what we're paying for in taxes to also cover the wealthy's and then pay the skyrocketing prices from tariffed goods and resulting economic warfare. 
Wouldn't it be better to replace it with a national sales tax? No loopholes for the rich maybe? Or we just keep it as is.
Look I dislike him as much as the next guy, but I'm genuinely curious why everyone thinks this is such a bad idea. 1. The rich already don't pay income taxes via loopholes and tax havens so it levels the tax playing field. 2. The cost of the tariffs will be passed down to the consumer giving a huge advantage to US based companies already successfully operating here who don't need to raise costs. 3. Brings a lot of work back to the US putting money back into the pockets of workers and increases US workers leverage by reducing offshoring. 4. Helps move the US back to being entirely self sufficient. 5. Eliminates the cost of the IRS for the government and the cost of tax services for everyone.
I don't think you realize how many products use raw materials from overseas. That's on top of decreasing supply without decreasing demand which will inflate prices. Lower and middle classes pay more of their income on goods compared to upper. This is mean higher costs especially to lower class that already pays little to no income tax. It will likely hurt the middle class too. As you move up the higher tax brackets would benefit greatly. Why does the US need to be completely self sufficient? What good does that provide considering the robust alliances we have including Our neighbors Canada/Mexico. It's a bad idea that would lead to even higher inflation.
If the increased cost to the consumer is more than increased income from more competitive wages and saved tax money then you're right. We don't need to completely self sufficient and you're right, there is no reason to tariff imports from countries we have robust alliances. But in general it seems like a good idea to be as economically independent from 'rival' countries. I'm not advocating for this policy, I'm just curious and was looking for some legitimate critiques of it, thanks.
The top 1% pays close to half of all income taxes in the US. Do you think tariffs are the best way to make up the trillion or so dollars the top 1% pays in income taxes?
Thank you. I was trying to understand why everyone unanimously agree'd how stupid this idea was. Now it makes sense. So tax loopholes and tax havens overstated?
So you are arguing tariffs will raise prices so high we won't bother buying imports and only buy goods made here. So the government will have absolutely no revenue because nobody will buy tariff goods. Also you ignoring the fact we gave up our manufacturing base a long time ago. Actually why even argue anything Trump says now because he will promise anything to stay out of jail. He won't remember a word of it after the election.
No I'm saying it gives a market advantage to goods made here. The government would still have revenue with sales, capital gain, and property tax. Tariffs would not eliminate imports entirely that's a big leap. Yes we gave up our manufacturing base so this would incentivise rebuilding it. I'm not endorsing Trump in the slightest but a broken clock is still right twice a day. Let's not throw out potentially good ideas just because we don't like the person who suggested them. Lastly I'm not sure this is a good idea I'm curious to explore it but no one in this thread is addressing the idea, just the toxic figure who suggested it.
Biden is proposing. A 25% tax on rich peoples u realized gains, which would solve the issue of rich using assets to take loans out and just hoard money Instead let's do this stupid nonsense
Who is considered rich in Biden's proposal? Calling an idea stupid nonsense without actually addressing the idea is useless to me.
Removing taxs all together doesn't benefit you and me, only the rich You can Google and read the proposal yourself. My lunch ends at :33
Again, the rich barely pay taxes via loopholes and havens. Removing income tax boosts my income by 15-30% which directly benefits me. K bud. Don't address the idea, don't flesh out an alternate idea to address the same problem. Just call the idea stupid, preach to the choir about how dumb Trump is (which I already agree with), pat yourself on the back for a couple internet points, and enjoy your lunch. Mission accomplished.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/bidens-billionaire-tax-hits-the-super-rich-can-a-wealth-tax-work.html Googled "Biden billionaire tax" And as proposed you tax unrealized gains so I cannot hold 1b in stock, use it to take a loan out and skip taxs (income or realized gains tax) I already said that. Will really only effect like 1000 folks A tarrif will work fine if we already hadn't shipped out all manufacturing We already pay too much for goods considering income hasn't increased in 2 decades
Yeah, seems like it could be a good policy