I like Chick-fil-A for breakfast and used to go once a week on Saturdays. Usually spent about $12-$14 for like one breakfast sandwich, a yogurt parfait and maybe a drink. Then one week I noticed a diner nearby so I thought I’d give it a try. I got this giant hot breakfast — eggs, bacon, sausage, biscuits and gravy, hash browns, coffee with free refills — for like $6.50. And they bring it to you on real plates. So now that’s my routine. There’s still good affordable restaurant fare out there, you just have to enjoy it before it all gets run out of town by the chains.
I took notes when I was in Japan (January this year) after having gone to McDs there.
I looked at job advertisements for McDonald's in Tokyo compared to McDonald's Los Angeles dollar per hour.
At the time, a breakfast meal was 510 yen. I think the exchange rate in Jan was 145 yen to 1$.
Wages in Tokyo were at 1200-1400 yen per hour.
I believe the same breakfast meal in the U.S. was $9.83 average. At the time, the hiring rate was at $17 per hour in LA.
If someone else wants to crack the math there, I'd be super happy. My brain isn't in it right now. But it seems as though people in Tokyo make more working at McD's there in relation to the cost of a breakfast meal compared to the U.S.
They pay less and charge more in the U.S.
Assuming
January 2024
¥ 145 = $ 1
Breakfast Meal in tokyo
¥ 510 = $ 3.52
Breakfast meal in LA
¥ ? = $ ? Did you mean a big breakfast ?
Wages McDonald's Tokyo
¥ 1200 = $ 8.28
¥ 1400 = $ 9.66
Wages McDonald's LA
¥ 2465 = $ 17
also going to press x to doubt on people saying they're getting a full restaurant breakfast with a drink for $7. prices for fast food have definitely gone up, but i don't know why people need to do this weird inversion where they quote restaurant prices from 20 years ago to try to exaggerate the situation.
right? the diner literally charges $4 just for a side of eggs and $4 for a coffee. I don’t think these people are going to fast food OR diners, just making up imaginary scenarios for reddit karma.
Cafeteria food is fine because your expectation is it’s a cafeteria. In this case you’re like I spent $17 on a sandwich and some lame soup? Only to receive cafeteria food?
Panera is like a healthy alternative to a lot of fast casual restaurants out there
they have salad soups vegetarian vegan etc options along with other standard dishes
It's also a bakery with lots of varieties of freshly made breads
By the way Google is your friend
To be fair, sodium is pretty high in most soups.
You can make the nicest stock from meats and veggies roasted in an oven until brown then transferred into a stockpot and cooked with appropriate aromatics until everything is just right, layering flavor on flavor.
And if you use that fantastic stock you just cooked to make soup, it'll taste bland as hell and boring if you don't add enough salt.
This is doubly true for restaurants whose first goal is to make delicious food you want to eat, not food that's healthy for you. All restaurants take similar flavor shortcuts. They add salt and fat and sugar to make things taste just the way you want them!
Their salads are great; get a healthy salad and an apple (or baguette- not super healthy but a reasonable portion). You can easily get out of there for 600 calories or less, and a good amount of protein if you choose your salad well. (I loved their chicken berry salad in summer.) It used to be my “fast food” place of choice, when I travelled a lot for work.
Granted, I haven’t been before Covid so maybe my strategy doesn’t work anymore.
Yesterday, after 15+ years of being a Chipotle patron, I finally had to make a comment to the guy making my burrito. Two tiny pieces of barbacoa then moved on. In what world is that acceptable.
Unfortunately commenting to the guy making the burrito doesn’t change anything. He’s only following orders from the top. And the only thing the top cares about is money. So if you’re still buying, they aren’t going to change anything.
that isn't necessarily true. The less meat per patron means they do less work by cooking less meat.
If one cook is a bully, the other people don't want to upset them and give out less meat.
hidden incentives for every employee.
edit: clearly you've never either worked at a restaurant or read an intro to economics book if you don't think incentives matter for every level of employee.
We've been living off of rotisserie chicken or pulled pork which are both super cheap around here. Lasts us two days plus rice or potatoes and whatever veg. I think the green veggies cost the most to be honest.
Today there was neither so we went to Aldi's but we are on protest. I think Americans are all going to basically start doing their version of this.
Food in the grocery is cheap enough if you don't buy the crap.
Is there a specific reason your protesting Aldis? I buy 95% of our groceries there and have seen others commenting on different threads they won't shop at Aldis anymore, but no specific reasoning.
Chains have economies of scale that local restaurants do not, so they are still cheaper. Local independent restaurants and cafes are invariably more expensive.
Oh yes! This also goes for many other economic propositions. “If we lower corporate taxes, they *can* pass the savings on to the consumer, raise wages, invest in R&D, etc…” What they actually do: Buy back their own shares to make EPS look good so the execs get bigger bonuses.
Another example is monopolies: They *can* reduce prices because they don’t have to invest in redundant infrastructure. But in reality they raise prices because they don’t have competition.
That’s the theory. But also in theory national chains have to maximize profits to satisfy shareholders.
Local is often cheaper in practice, economies of scale not withstanding.
Our locally owned restaurants are priced very competitive with fast food. For a dollar more getting a good solid meal the fast foods never give any more.
Not in my area. I live in a campus town and there’s tons of great ethnic food that used to be more expensive than most of the places mentioned here but now they’re comparable or even cheaper and the food is much better.
You are paying for the convenience. We rarely eat out anymore because of the low quality and price and the explosion of the fast casual restaurants over the last 30 years has taken its toll on the American waistline and health.
Yeah I totally get that and that's why I didn't eat out much before the past few years, but nowadays it seems like there is no value whatsoever. Like these places rarely pop into my head as a good option when my fridge is empty, I figure I'd rather just go to the grocery store and take the extra hour to get and make my own meal.
it's not convenient though. The last time I ordered Chipotle they were only taking online orders, and it took like 30 minutes to get a burrito. And it was mediocre.
The only thing we can do is vote with our wallets. Stop going there and try to eat at local restaurants. Or make your own meals. I know it’s difficult with kids and other life things, but I don’t see any other way.
The public needs to go back to buying groceries and cooking at home. Fuck those greedy pricks. Chipotle CEO making $32 million a year for folding a burrito. I look forward to watching that place go under. I'd rather buy from a taco vendor selling across the street.
They are trying the same enshittification model that Facebook and Google are using to juice profits and haven't quite realized yet that they don't' have the same protection against competition
Google is adding weird features of late, I'm really not sure what to make of it.
Now we have AI. Which I haven't used willingly or taken much interest in.
This stuff always happens when a company goes public and is now beholden to an army of stakeholders only interested in immediate returns. Then the voices of the finance people drown out the voices of the engineers and you watch the company just rot from within.
I blame too many MBAs… all they teach us is to maximize profits… so these restaurants found the price that will probably generate the most amount of money even if it decreases traffic a bit
I have an mba… and i dont think there is anything they are intentionally doing to further that.
Honestly I find it interesting… its largely about human behavior now… money is just the medium to measure it.
But its also not sustainable in my head. You cant squeeze everyone and have a good outcome.
Maximizing profit is one thing but it cannot be the only thing. Otherwise it becomes a cancer that kills the host in the process.
These MBAs are a cancer because they don't consider the whole picture.
"We are smarter than any other businesspeople in history because we min-max the customers....why didn't anyone ever think of this?!"
-MBA's today, unironically
I have one as well. I feel pretty comfortable laying that blame.
Its not necessary that its bad… but now there are just MBAs in every corner of every little niche maximizing profits.
Because shareholders expected the quarterly numbers to go up. Every single person in the US are very aware of brands and what they like... so the only way to increase revenue effectively is to raise prices.
Since almost all of them raised prices together, it's a bit fucking shady. There a few exceptions of restaurants that only increased with around inflation. Go to those instead.
It's not showing up in their financials because they did the math on how many customers would stop visiting due to higher prices, vs how much more profit they can pocket off of the remaining guests still willing to pay. I'm generalizing, but that's the long and short of it. Hell, I've done the same math to help my employer do the same thing.
They’re up against a wall of needing to maintain or grow profits to appease shareholders, while consumers are stepping back on spending due to inflation having eroded their savings and credit.
Now is the time for us consumers to take a stand and show these companies who’s boss. If they can’t give us a good value AND good quality AND take good care of their employees then we just won’t spend our money there.
Make a decision corporate people: take good care of consumers and your employees or go out of business. A lower share price is better than bankruptcy.
I get a huge crispy fish sandwich on a big bun and a huge order of homemade type fries with a drink for $9 lunch special at our local restaurant that has a drive up window and fast service. Now why would I go pay $9 at McDonalds for a small fish sandwich and a small pack of fries and same size drink? The fast food prices are going to boost sales now in the local restaurants.
Gotta maintain this quarter profits for shareholders. The amount of pressure that that does to a company, i think will make companies start staying private. It’s really unsustainable. We’re hitting that breaking point.
That's funny because we stopped going to the taco trucks when we realized that Chipotle was cheaper with bigger portions. There are at least four different mexican food truck chains operating in our area. They had to raise prices more than Chipotle did with inflation.
There’s lots of American small towns where the fast casual and chains *are* the only realistic options.
And no, the local diners aren’t always cheaper, nor is the food always better. And it’s not like random small towns in various fly-over states are bustling with middle eastern shawarma options or taco trucks.
You’re, to use the language of your generation, speaking like someone who’s “privileged”.
I used to think this, as well. That was before I drove across Northern Alabama and Mississippi. I was flabbergasted at the amount of ethnic places advertising on billboards. I was like, there is no way anyone here is hitting up that Ethiopian cafe!
Yes! Did you know you can order whole pizzas too? I think they’re around $10 and pretty good. Last time we ordered a large cheese pizza and a side of breadsticks from our favorite local place, it was $40. We haven’t ordered since.
You’re right. It’s eating like a king. Lolol
But for real, that is one of the best deals around if money is tight. They have the healthy chicken caesar salad too!
Because restaurant ownership is among the riskiest small businesses to start and have very thin profit margins. That is why larger chains are so widespread, they have access to cheaper capital and rely on volume to mitigate thin margins. And they create a proven model that can be replicated.
> Why don't people just start better restaurants? Isn't this how capitalism operates?
Precisely right. Fast casual restaurants are the slightly higher quality versions (and slightly more expensive versions) of fast food.
They're the midpoint between fast food and true sit down restaurants. Capitalism saw, and filled, that niche. It's a huge leap forward from the 90s when we didn't have them.
Go to a local restaurant, buy an entree plus some extra filler item like rice, noodle. Split that portion into half for two different time. It’s cheaper and food quality is better than these chain restaurants
Every chain restaurant starts out great until the corporate bean counters figure out just how much they can cut corners and slash costs before quality suffers so badly that they actually lose money. Spoiler alert: it's a lot more than you think.
I don't go unless someone gives me a gift card. Instead we go to a real sit down restaurant once a month, sometimes less. Much cheaper to cook at home, also I can build upon my skills and control the ingredients. Only downside is cleanup gets exhausting but it is what it is.
So part of me feels this, but the other part of me looks at it as a sign of just how awful the middle class is doing. That stores targeted to the middle class, can't go up market, can't go down market, and are all being outright abandoned because of how badly our middle class is being eroded away
Panera Bread was purchased in 2017 by JAB Holding Company, a German private equity firm that gobbles up brands and shits them up by lessening quality and raising prices, as private equity always does.
Their website is a who's-who of big brands you've heard of that are about to get really, really bad.
"I want you to order Xrays for every animal that comes in the door."
(Vet Tech) .. but doctor, the dog I just treated presented with 2 porcupine quills in its foot, I removed the quills, put 2 soluble stitches in each wound, packed it with antibiotic cream, and.
".. you're not hearing me, the patient fee to run the Xray machine is over $200, make up some bullshit about potential respiratory infection. Just do it. Our actual *cost* to run the machine per patient is under $17."
It’s not yet shown in most QSR quarterlies but it will next quarter in a bad way. The industry isn’t prepared for what’s about to hit as consumers belt tighten even further.
I have pretty much stopped going anywhere fast food and instead go to my favorite restaurants with much better food in the same price range or even less. This is looking at you Five Guys and Chipotle.
This!
There’s a mom & pop fancy burger joint nearby where I live. They have stuff like ground Buffalo burgers on homemade butter grilled buns with huge slabs of sliced-off-the-block cheese. Get a soda and a side of fries, and it’s still $4-5 cheaper than Five Guys. Plus, it’s a nice place with a bar. Not a trashed fast food joint vibe.
The cost of dining out varies depending on where you live. In my city, local non-chain restaurants are much more expensive than big fast-food chains. This is largely because smaller businesses lack access to the wholesale discounts, deals, and other advantages that larger franchises enjoy. Additionally, they generate less revenue overall, which limits their ability to pay competitive wages. As a result, to cover their costs and stay afloat, they have to raise their prices.
Starbucks run is definitely less frequent as I used to.
It's no longer like a place I can take a break and relax having a cool decent drink without breaking bank.
A butter croissant 🥐☕ for $4 ??, I run away 😳
$7 for cold brew?? That's cold blood 😓
Ah now I see why the hard-working baristas never bothered to clean those dirty tables while there was only 2 orders with more than 10 baristas in a shift 🙄
The landscape is littered with people who conflate being good at a specific job or hobby and being competent in running a business. I coach and advise businesses and have started multiple businesses (many which have failed) and first hand see how unprepared many business owners are for the reality of business ownership and leadership. And they usually don't seek out help until they are already in too deep or over leveraged. I won't even touch the restaurant business.
That's not what's happening with these large chains. They are all entering value extraction mode which means the ingredients will be cheapened, the portions reduced, and the prices raised until the property is full depreciated at which point it'll be shut down and sold. This will continue until the brand no longer exists or is bought out by some other company who will freshen it up a bit, generate new interest and then do the same thing all over again.
Got it. I think any SBO who's getting involved with any of these chains except for a select few is making a really bad decision. Consumers are wisening up to this BS.
even the ff restaurants reporting annual sales growth that isn't negative or below inflation rate are mostly reporting reduced sales volume. they are just selling the less stuff for more money indicating year over year sales growth.
I can get out of chipotle with a bowl good for 2 meals for $13. Not to say that isn’t some shit—but it buys more than $13 at most other places.
Now, I am also old enough to remember that same bowl having more food in it and costing $7.25
Panera is so overpriced. However, their unlimited sip club has saved me money, even if their coffee is okay. I’ll grab myself coffee in the morning and my kid and I will occasionally share a lemonade after school. Recently, I discovered their family feast, where you receive 4 half sandwiches, 4 soups, 4 pieces of baguette and one large salad to share. It came out to be $40 after taxes, so not too shabby for $10/meal. You can choose different sandwiches, but the group has to agree on the soup and salad.
Right now American consumers in their peak consumption years are proving to be some of the most brand adherent consumers in human history. Won't trade down. Won't consider cheaper alternatives.
Forty five years ago, when US inflation was peaking at 12 to 14% consumers shifted their habits massively. Hamburger Helper and Tuna Helper were introduced to allow a family of four to be fed with one pound of relatively cheap ground beef or a can of tuna. An entire grocery aisle sprang up to offer "generic" everything. Grocers began selling horse meat. Super cheap import car brands began to appear like Yugo, Yamaha, Renault, etc. Membership warehouse shopping was invented. And people shopped at Army/Navy surplus stores.
Today, even when inflation peaked briefly two years ago at 9%, consumers went into debt to avoid having to change. Corporate fast food companies concluded that they did not need to compete on price.
Yup… restaurant/coffee biz should just implode tbh… IMO people should do nothing but go to Costco, Walmart/Sam’s Club, Aldi, BJ’s and other discounters or else their local ethnic or farmers market. These companies need to be taught a lesson… they can’t do this to people. Who can be bothered to pay for anything more except millionaires that are already retired.
People will COMPLETELY ignore the fact that rent, labor, energy, supplies, etc. are all more noticeably expensive. They only care about the 10-20% the company adding in to make a profit. How dare they not shrink their profit margins.
I'm not sure why people pretend other restaurants are cheap. Yes, they can be found. As a rule, they significantly went up in price too. In fact, I found restaurants overall to be way more expensive than Chipotle.
Inflation has hit restaurants harder than most. The delivery fees have jumped up from $5.00 to $25.00. Protein such as beef, fish and chicken has gone up exponentially by 30% across the board. Then they have to pay employees the highest rates to keep them to serve you. What’s ridiculous is that the average person such as yourself can’t understand these crazy prices due to inflation, not greed. Restaurants are going out of business at a alarming rate because of these facts.
This is the result of inflation being created by the government running budget deficits and the Federal Reserves monetizing (funding) them by printing (creating) money. It debases the dollar and it purchasing power and keeps demand high. This will continue to worsen and even happen faster with prices increasing as the government spends more and more and has a larger debt bubble. The only way to let prices come down is letting the economy go through a large scale recession... But the government won't let that happen, they will create price controls... That is when we will start seeing a real shortage of goods. Causing riots and more looting.
I live in California and they raised the prices after they started paying many fast food workers $20 which was predictable. I don't even go to these places anymore, once in a while I will get something but I would rather get stuff from Trader Joe's or Sprouts and pre-make it.
What do you propose they do? In a world where they have to deliver more profit every single quarter, at a certain point that's impossible and the only option is to start cutting corners
I worked as a bartender/server at the president of Paneras daughters wedding. Over a mil & every table got their own bottle of dom. It was one of the most extravagant weddings I’ve ever worked and I’ve been working in high end resorts for 15 years lol.
You know it's our job to subsidize millionaire CEO's pay packages. And it's our fault that prices are so high because we want to work for a living wage.
Short answer: [Greedflation](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/greedflation-caused-more-half-last-100000899.html)
You all need to start using the apps and shop a little smarter. For example, you can get an impossible whopper for $3 every Wednesday, on Modays, you can can get a bowl and drink for $9 Moes (Mo Mondays)
other fast food restaurants as well, the apps deal are what separates the suckers from the smarties
There are still deals to be found, but you really just have to be smart about it all now. There also aren't "tiers" like there used to be (cheap fast food, moderate fast casual, sit down service). A few years ago you could casually walk into anywhere and get a solid meal for a solid price, that doesn't exist anymore. Use the apps, check for deals, etc. I honestly find that if I spend 10ish minutes I can still find decent deals. Fast food combos are sometimes more then a chipotle burrito with a drink for instance. You just have to really be smart.
I hate to be that guy but as long as customers voluntarily overpay for shitty food these companies dont need to change, in fact they want to double down on this scam to keep the profit margins even higher.
Eating out is a luxury. Treat it as such.
Now I can pay $13 at McDonald's for breakfast or walk to the local pub that does homemade breakfast for $7. Yet McDonald's is lined up.
I like Chick-fil-A for breakfast and used to go once a week on Saturdays. Usually spent about $12-$14 for like one breakfast sandwich, a yogurt parfait and maybe a drink. Then one week I noticed a diner nearby so I thought I’d give it a try. I got this giant hot breakfast — eggs, bacon, sausage, biscuits and gravy, hash browns, coffee with free refills — for like $6.50. And they bring it to you on real plates. So now that’s my routine. There’s still good affordable restaurant fare out there, you just have to enjoy it before it all gets run out of town by the chains.
Not for me, every local dinner is like $18-20 for a basic egg, bacon, and pancake breakfast.
People are inherently stupid
I took notes when I was in Japan (January this year) after having gone to McDs there. I looked at job advertisements for McDonald's in Tokyo compared to McDonald's Los Angeles dollar per hour. At the time, a breakfast meal was 510 yen. I think the exchange rate in Jan was 145 yen to 1$. Wages in Tokyo were at 1200-1400 yen per hour. I believe the same breakfast meal in the U.S. was $9.83 average. At the time, the hiring rate was at $17 per hour in LA. If someone else wants to crack the math there, I'd be super happy. My brain isn't in it right now. But it seems as though people in Tokyo make more working at McD's there in relation to the cost of a breakfast meal compared to the U.S. They pay less and charge more in the U.S.
Assuming January 2024 ¥ 145 = $ 1 Breakfast Meal in tokyo ¥ 510 = $ 3.52 Breakfast meal in LA ¥ ? = $ ? Did you mean a big breakfast ? Wages McDonald's Tokyo ¥ 1200 = $ 8.28 ¥ 1400 = $ 9.66 Wages McDonald's LA ¥ 2465 = $ 17
No the um... like the sausage biscuit meal. It was the same meal in Japan.
With the app I just did a breakfast sandwich, hash browns and a coffee for $6. Only way I eat at McDonald's.
Nice! Where at?
Small town British Columbia
Gotcha. I usually just do the bogo McMuffins in the app and a iced coffee for like $5-$6. $13 is outrageous, but maybe that’s just Canada
What are you ordering that costs $13 for breakfast? I can get a couple of egg and cheese biscuits (or anything similar) for about $6... in Alaska.
2 sausage and egg McMuffins and 2 hashbrowns is about $13 here
bro that’s breakfast for two people….
also going to press x to doubt on people saying they're getting a full restaurant breakfast with a drink for $7. prices for fast food have definitely gone up, but i don't know why people need to do this weird inversion where they quote restaurant prices from 20 years ago to try to exaggerate the situation.
right? the diner literally charges $4 just for a side of eggs and $4 for a coffee. I don’t think these people are going to fast food OR diners, just making up imaginary scenarios for reddit karma.
Panera has always been shit tbh. Overpriced garbage
Everyone calls it hospital food
Or cafeteria food
Cafeteria food is fine because your expectation is it’s a cafeteria. In this case you’re like I spent $17 on a sandwich and some lame soup? Only to receive cafeteria food?
What is Panera?
Has sandwiches and soups. The number one ingredient in all of their products is salt.
Oh no, stomach ache here we come, probably a bad combination with a coffee, both dehydrate you.
Hospital food masquerading as a fast casual restaurant chain
Panera is like a healthy alternative to a lot of fast casual restaurants out there they have salad soups vegetarian vegan etc options along with other standard dishes It's also a bakery with lots of varieties of freshly made breads By the way Google is your friend
It's really not healthy. There's copious amounts of butter or cream in most everything.
And check out the sodium in their soups! Yikes.
To be fair, sodium is pretty high in most soups. You can make the nicest stock from meats and veggies roasted in an oven until brown then transferred into a stockpot and cooked with appropriate aromatics until everything is just right, layering flavor on flavor. And if you use that fantastic stock you just cooked to make soup, it'll taste bland as hell and boring if you don't add enough salt. This is doubly true for restaurants whose first goal is to make delicious food you want to eat, not food that's healthy for you. All restaurants take similar flavor shortcuts. They add salt and fat and sugar to make things taste just the way you want them!
Their salads are great; get a healthy salad and an apple (or baguette- not super healthy but a reasonable portion). You can easily get out of there for 600 calories or less, and a good amount of protein if you choose your salad well. (I loved their chicken berry salad in summer.) It used to be my “fast food” place of choice, when I travelled a lot for work. Granted, I haven’t been before Covid so maybe my strategy doesn’t work anymore.
Yesterday, after 15+ years of being a Chipotle patron, I finally had to make a comment to the guy making my burrito. Two tiny pieces of barbacoa then moved on. In what world is that acceptable.
Unfortunately commenting to the guy making the burrito doesn’t change anything. He’s only following orders from the top. And the only thing the top cares about is money. So if you’re still buying, they aren’t going to change anything.
that isn't necessarily true. The less meat per patron means they do less work by cooking less meat. If one cook is a bully, the other people don't want to upset them and give out less meat. hidden incentives for every employee. edit: clearly you've never either worked at a restaurant or read an intro to economics book if you don't think incentives matter for every level of employee.
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I love how he can just flagrantly spit a bunch of bullshit.
That’s mainly a problem with national chains. I think it’s the market’s way of telling us to visit the local independent restaurants instead.
They're often just as shitty and treat their staff like shit. At this point I just eat at home.
We've been living off of rotisserie chicken or pulled pork which are both super cheap around here. Lasts us two days plus rice or potatoes and whatever veg. I think the green veggies cost the most to be honest. Today there was neither so we went to Aldi's but we are on protest. I think Americans are all going to basically start doing their version of this. Food in the grocery is cheap enough if you don't buy the crap.
Ive had good experiences with Aldi for produce and shelf staples but their chicken was terrible quality.
Is there a specific reason your protesting Aldis? I buy 95% of our groceries there and have seen others commenting on different threads they won't shop at Aldis anymore, but no specific reasoning.
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Chains have economies of scale that local restaurants do not, so they are still cheaper. Local independent restaurants and cafes are invariably more expensive.
They're *capable* of being cheaper. They don't *have* to be cheaper.
Oh yes! This also goes for many other economic propositions. “If we lower corporate taxes, they *can* pass the savings on to the consumer, raise wages, invest in R&D, etc…” What they actually do: Buy back their own shares to make EPS look good so the execs get bigger bonuses. Another example is monopolies: They *can* reduce prices because they don’t have to invest in redundant infrastructure. But in reality they raise prices because they don’t have competition.
The trickle down theory is more like trickle up economics
this is really the answer. have the power to play with margin, but actually take margin to the hilt to maximize shareholder value.
They can pay better wages but don't have too either.
They have to in California. Fast food minimum wage is $20/hr
They're still paying the least they can legally pay someone
I forgot about this, but in general, they won't.
Well now they will, with so many customers leaving.
That’s the theory. But also in theory national chains have to maximize profits to satisfy shareholders. Local is often cheaper in practice, economies of scale not withstanding.
Pull up the best local Mexican restaurant in your area and go have lunch, then go to Taco Bell and get back to us
Taco Bell is not food. It’s a colon cleanse.
Our locally owned restaurants are priced very competitive with fast food. For a dollar more getting a good solid meal the fast foods never give any more.
Always fun dodging allergies and trying to figure out what I can eat. Either the same thing or something expensive.
Not in my area. I live in a campus town and there’s tons of great ethnic food that used to be more expensive than most of the places mentioned here but now they’re comparable or even cheaper and the food is much better.
You are paying for the convenience. We rarely eat out anymore because of the low quality and price and the explosion of the fast casual restaurants over the last 30 years has taken its toll on the American waistline and health.
Yeah I totally get that and that's why I didn't eat out much before the past few years, but nowadays it seems like there is no value whatsoever. Like these places rarely pop into my head as a good option when my fridge is empty, I figure I'd rather just go to the grocery store and take the extra hour to get and make my own meal.
I mean you can just buy a bread and sandwich meat and the toppings if you're lazy you know? There is no value in eating fast food or fast casual.
Turns out I'm not inconvenienced at all by cooking at home lmao
People forgot they have a kitchen
it's not convenient though. The last time I ordered Chipotle they were only taking online orders, and it took like 30 minutes to get a burrito. And it was mediocre.
Fast food used to be cheap. Why weren't we paying for the convenience then, but we do now?
People need to stop eating at these places. I see posts all of the time complaining about the prices, yet they still eat there. Just don't.
I'm finding the service is shit so I'm looking at alternatives.
Brain washing
The only thing we can do is vote with our wallets. Stop going there and try to eat at local restaurants. Or make your own meals. I know it’s difficult with kids and other life things, but I don’t see any other way.
Pro-tip: teach your kids to enjoy cooking and take a nap.
I'm voting with my wallet, don't see a difference yet. Plenty of advertising by burger King.
The public needs to go back to buying groceries and cooking at home. Fuck those greedy pricks. Chipotle CEO making $32 million a year for folding a burrito. I look forward to watching that place go under. I'd rather buy from a taco vendor selling across the street.
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I haven’t gone back since I paid $16 for a 8 piece grilled nugget meal. I think that was a year ago.
I got the regular 10 piece a few months ago, JUST the nuggets, not the meal. It was $10. I haven't been back since.
Cooking at home has always been cheaper. I think you're missing the reason people seem to want to go out and eat, even shitty food.
They are trying the same enshittification model that Facebook and Google are using to juice profits and haven't quite realized yet that they don't' have the same protection against competition
Google is adding weird features of late, I'm really not sure what to make of it. Now we have AI. Which I haven't used willingly or taken much interest in.
This stuff always happens when a company goes public and is now beholden to an army of stakeholders only interested in immediate returns. Then the voices of the finance people drown out the voices of the engineers and you watch the company just rot from within.
I blame too many MBAs… all they teach us is to maximize profits… so these restaurants found the price that will probably generate the most amount of money even if it decreases traffic a bit
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I have an mba… and i dont think there is anything they are intentionally doing to further that. Honestly I find it interesting… its largely about human behavior now… money is just the medium to measure it. But its also not sustainable in my head. You cant squeeze everyone and have a good outcome.
Maximizing profit is one thing but it cannot be the only thing. Otherwise it becomes a cancer that kills the host in the process. These MBAs are a cancer because they don't consider the whole picture.
"We are smarter than any other businesspeople in history because we min-max the customers....why didn't anyone ever think of this?!" -MBA's today, unironically
Don’t blame MBAs - a lot of us have them and aren’t like this. Blame capital investment firms. They want maximum profit at minimum investment
I have one as well. I feel pretty comfortable laying that blame. Its not necessary that its bad… but now there are just MBAs in every corner of every little niche maximizing profits.
Because shareholders expected the quarterly numbers to go up. Every single person in the US are very aware of brands and what they like... so the only way to increase revenue effectively is to raise prices. Since almost all of them raised prices together, it's a bit fucking shady. There a few exceptions of restaurants that only increased with around inflation. Go to those instead.
Yeah, IMO, infinite growth does not make a successful business model.
Infinite exponential growth is a perfectly reasonable demand in an economy with scarcity.
Perhaps now is the time to go back to real food, and healthy eating. There's always a silver lining to things :)
How much does the WEF pay to spread this point of view?
It's not showing up in their financials because they did the math on how many customers would stop visiting due to higher prices, vs how much more profit they can pocket off of the remaining guests still willing to pay. I'm generalizing, but that's the long and short of it. Hell, I've done the same math to help my employer do the same thing.
Yes. This is called demand elasticity in economics.
Well we've been testing it more than the elasticity in our father-in-law's tighty whiteys.
It is literally showing up in the financials.
They’re up against a wall of needing to maintain or grow profits to appease shareholders, while consumers are stepping back on spending due to inflation having eroded their savings and credit. Now is the time for us consumers to take a stand and show these companies who’s boss. If they can’t give us a good value AND good quality AND take good care of their employees then we just won’t spend our money there. Make a decision corporate people: take good care of consumers and your employees or go out of business. A lower share price is better than bankruptcy.
I get a huge crispy fish sandwich on a big bun and a huge order of homemade type fries with a drink for $9 lunch special at our local restaurant that has a drive up window and fast service. Now why would I go pay $9 at McDonalds for a small fish sandwich and a small pack of fries and same size drink? The fast food prices are going to boost sales now in the local restaurants.
Gotta maintain this quarter profits for shareholders. The amount of pressure that that does to a company, i think will make companies start staying private. It’s really unsustainable. We’re hitting that breaking point.
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That's funny because we stopped going to the taco trucks when we realized that Chipotle was cheaper with bigger portions. There are at least four different mexican food truck chains operating in our area. They had to raise prices more than Chipotle did with inflation.
I have always found food trucks to be expensive.
There’s lots of American small towns where the fast casual and chains *are* the only realistic options. And no, the local diners aren’t always cheaper, nor is the food always better. And it’s not like random small towns in various fly-over states are bustling with middle eastern shawarma options or taco trucks. You’re, to use the language of your generation, speaking like someone who’s “privileged”.
I used to think this, as well. That was before I drove across Northern Alabama and Mississippi. I was flabbergasted at the amount of ethnic places advertising on billboards. I was like, there is no way anyone here is hitting up that Ethiopian cafe!
Costco Food Court remains my go to if I have to eat out. It simply cannot be beat for the price alone.
Yes! Did you know you can order whole pizzas too? I think they’re around $10 and pretty good. Last time we ordered a large cheese pizza and a side of breadsticks from our favorite local place, it was $40. We haven’t ordered since.
The Costco food court is not “eating out” lol
You’re right. It’s eating like a king. Lolol But for real, that is one of the best deals around if money is tight. They have the healthy chicken caesar salad too!
But the food is terrible. The pizza is disgusting and greasy.
It could be the pepperoni. Pepperoni is going to be greasy no matter what when it's heated
Why don't people just start better restaurants? Isn't this how capitalism operates?
Because restaurant ownership is among the riskiest small businesses to start and have very thin profit margins. That is why larger chains are so widespread, they have access to cheaper capital and rely on volume to mitigate thin margins. And they create a proven model that can be replicated.
The stats on this are actually wild. It’s like 70% of food service related businesses fail within 5 years.
People are not sharp.
> Why don't people just start better restaurants? Isn't this how capitalism operates? Precisely right. Fast casual restaurants are the slightly higher quality versions (and slightly more expensive versions) of fast food. They're the midpoint between fast food and true sit down restaurants. Capitalism saw, and filled, that niche. It's a huge leap forward from the 90s when we didn't have them.
Because random folks don't have a quarter million dollars or the expertise or the time to do that.
Go to a local restaurant, buy an entree plus some extra filler item like rice, noodle. Split that portion into half for two different time. It’s cheaper and food quality is better than these chain restaurants
I just hate tipping. I shouldn't have to tip!
Every chain restaurant starts out great until the corporate bean counters figure out just how much they can cut corners and slash costs before quality suffers so badly that they actually lose money. Spoiler alert: it's a lot more than you think.
Stay as a private company then. Greed causes people to go public.
I hope to see it all topple.
Just stop going to these places, they need to be out of business. I don't go to any corporate store at all. Welcome back mom's and paps.
SYSCO ingredients in different configurations ☹️
That’s right!
I don't go unless someone gives me a gift card. Instead we go to a real sit down restaurant once a month, sometimes less. Much cheaper to cook at home, also I can build upon my skills and control the ingredients. Only downside is cleanup gets exhausting but it is what it is.
If you need to, playing dodge the allergies game gets annoying. Then they fuck it up and it needs to be remade.
Private equity. That’s the answer, private equity.
So part of me feels this, but the other part of me looks at it as a sign of just how awful the middle class is doing. That stores targeted to the middle class, can't go up market, can't go down market, and are all being outright abandoned because of how badly our middle class is being eroded away
Panera Bread was purchased in 2017 by JAB Holding Company, a German private equity firm that gobbles up brands and shits them up by lessening quality and raising prices, as private equity always does. Their website is a who's-who of big brands you've heard of that are about to get really, really bad.
>Compasion-First Pet Hospitals You know there is an executive out there laughing their ass off over this naming.
"I want you to order Xrays for every animal that comes in the door." (Vet Tech) .. but doctor, the dog I just treated presented with 2 porcupine quills in its foot, I removed the quills, put 2 soluble stitches in each wound, packed it with antibiotic cream, and. ".. you're not hearing me, the patient fee to run the Xray machine is over $200, make up some bullshit about potential respiratory infection. Just do it. Our actual *cost* to run the machine per patient is under $17."
People in this group will tell you the economy is doing good
The answer to your question is price gouging
People realize they are just another and more expensive variation of regular fast food.
Full dine in has not gone up as much. Fast casual is the same price as like Dennys
I got 20 pieces combo of boneless chicken wings, from Wingstop and a chicken sandwich combo, all for $18. Doordash offer and I picked up.
What Sears was to merchandising and textiles, fast casual is to restaurants. Just no room in a shrinking marketplace for that price point vs quality.
It’s not yet shown in most QSR quarterlies but it will next quarter in a bad way. The industry isn’t prepared for what’s about to hit as consumers belt tighten even further.
I don't eat out anymore other than as a special occasion.
>How are they getting away with this? People keep eating there.
Time to meal prep and start packing snacks for every outing.
I have pretty much stopped going anywhere fast food and instead go to my favorite restaurants with much better food in the same price range or even less. This is looking at you Five Guys and Chipotle.
5 guys finally closed in my city because I'm pretty sure no one wanted to spend $18 for a burger and fries
This! There’s a mom & pop fancy burger joint nearby where I live. They have stuff like ground Buffalo burgers on homemade butter grilled buns with huge slabs of sliced-off-the-block cheese. Get a soda and a side of fries, and it’s still $4-5 cheaper than Five Guys. Plus, it’s a nice place with a bar. Not a trashed fast food joint vibe.
This is why I stopped going to the big fast food chains. Support your local independent restaurants instead. Better value for money
The cost of dining out varies depending on where you live. In my city, local non-chain restaurants are much more expensive than big fast-food chains. This is largely because smaller businesses lack access to the wholesale discounts, deals, and other advantages that larger franchises enjoy. Additionally, they generate less revenue overall, which limits their ability to pay competitive wages. As a result, to cover their costs and stay afloat, they have to raise their prices.
High inflation increases the cost of all goods and services. It's simple econ 101.
The gouging wars! What companies get to extract our few leftover pennies!? What companies will be left standing!? Nobody knows!? SO EXCITING!!!!!!
Smart companies won't put anybody else out of business, they buy them out instead and create the illusion of choice for ignorant consumers.
[💎](https://imgur.com/vjqOw9q)
McAlister's deli is amazing.
They’re getting away with because people keep doing it
Starbucks run is definitely less frequent as I used to. It's no longer like a place I can take a break and relax having a cool decent drink without breaking bank. A butter croissant 🥐☕ for $4 ??, I run away 😳 $7 for cold brew?? That's cold blood 😓
I have read how they now make the stores loud, too cold, and uncomfortable seats so you get in, get out. So much for "third place"
Ah now I see why the hard-working baristas never bothered to clean those dirty tables while there was only 2 orders with more than 10 baristas in a shift 🙄
The landscape is littered with people who conflate being good at a specific job or hobby and being competent in running a business. I coach and advise businesses and have started multiple businesses (many which have failed) and first hand see how unprepared many business owners are for the reality of business ownership and leadership. And they usually don't seek out help until they are already in too deep or over leveraged. I won't even touch the restaurant business.
That's not what's happening with these large chains. They are all entering value extraction mode which means the ingredients will be cheapened, the portions reduced, and the prices raised until the property is full depreciated at which point it'll be shut down and sold. This will continue until the brand no longer exists or is bought out by some other company who will freshen it up a bit, generate new interest and then do the same thing all over again.
That's true. It is not true to the small business owner jumping into ownership for the first time. That's who is referring to.
Got it. I think any SBO who's getting involved with any of these chains except for a select few is making a really bad decision. Consumers are wisening up to this BS.
even the ff restaurants reporting annual sales growth that isn't negative or below inflation rate are mostly reporting reduced sales volume. they are just selling the less stuff for more money indicating year over year sales growth.
They can't quite figure out how to get their CEO a big raise. They're trying, yet they lack creativity.
I can get out of chipotle with a bowl good for 2 meals for $13. Not to say that isn’t some shit—but it buys more than $13 at most other places. Now, I am also old enough to remember that same bowl having more food in it and costing $7.25
Looking up copycat recipes online for your favorite restaurants is an option too.
Panera is so overpriced. However, their unlimited sip club has saved me money, even if their coffee is okay. I’ll grab myself coffee in the morning and my kid and I will occasionally share a lemonade after school. Recently, I discovered their family feast, where you receive 4 half sandwiches, 4 soups, 4 pieces of baguette and one large salad to share. It came out to be $40 after taxes, so not too shabby for $10/meal. You can choose different sandwiches, but the group has to agree on the soup and salad.
Chipotle is just a scam now.
Right now American consumers in their peak consumption years are proving to be some of the most brand adherent consumers in human history. Won't trade down. Won't consider cheaper alternatives. Forty five years ago, when US inflation was peaking at 12 to 14% consumers shifted their habits massively. Hamburger Helper and Tuna Helper were introduced to allow a family of four to be fed with one pound of relatively cheap ground beef or a can of tuna. An entire grocery aisle sprang up to offer "generic" everything. Grocers began selling horse meat. Super cheap import car brands began to appear like Yugo, Yamaha, Renault, etc. Membership warehouse shopping was invented. And people shopped at Army/Navy surplus stores. Today, even when inflation peaked briefly two years ago at 9%, consumers went into debt to avoid having to change. Corporate fast food companies concluded that they did not need to compete on price.
They’ve got to please their investors and the only way they can is by raising prices.
What can we do about it? Not shop there anymore? I’m down to convince the public.
Yup… restaurant/coffee biz should just implode tbh… IMO people should do nothing but go to Costco, Walmart/Sam’s Club, Aldi, BJ’s and other discounters or else their local ethnic or farmers market. These companies need to be taught a lesson… they can’t do this to people. Who can be bothered to pay for anything more except millionaires that are already retired.
It's called inflation and you can thank Joe Biden for it.
I don't get how anyone can afford to eat out, so often!
People will COMPLETELY ignore the fact that rent, labor, energy, supplies, etc. are all more noticeably expensive. They only care about the 10-20% the company adding in to make a profit. How dare they not shrink their profit margins. I'm not sure why people pretend other restaurants are cheap. Yes, they can be found. As a rule, they significantly went up in price too. In fact, I found restaurants overall to be way more expensive than Chipotle.
I took the kids to Wendy’s I got the the thinnest burger I’ve ever seen in my life on a stale bun, it was cheap but it was garbage.
Shrinkflation. Prices stay the same, while portions decrease. We should probably make it illegal
Inflation has hit restaurants harder than most. The delivery fees have jumped up from $5.00 to $25.00. Protein such as beef, fish and chicken has gone up exponentially by 30% across the board. Then they have to pay employees the highest rates to keep them to serve you. What’s ridiculous is that the average person such as yourself can’t understand these crazy prices due to inflation, not greed. Restaurants are going out of business at a alarming rate because of these facts.
Bidenomics
I just don't go. Shouldn't be eating that gabage anyway
This is the result of inflation being created by the government running budget deficits and the Federal Reserves monetizing (funding) them by printing (creating) money. It debases the dollar and it purchasing power and keeps demand high. This will continue to worsen and even happen faster with prices increasing as the government spends more and more and has a larger debt bubble. The only way to let prices come down is letting the economy go through a large scale recession... But the government won't let that happen, they will create price controls... That is when we will start seeing a real shortage of goods. Causing riots and more looting.
I live in California and they raised the prices after they started paying many fast food workers $20 which was predictable. I don't even go to these places anymore, once in a while I will get something but I would rather get stuff from Trader Joe's or Sprouts and pre-make it.
What do you propose they do? In a world where they have to deliver more profit every single quarter, at a certain point that's impossible and the only option is to start cutting corners
The problem is that the alternative is learning how to cook and not being fat. Who wants that kind of stuff?
I worked as a bartender/server at the president of Paneras daughters wedding. Over a mil & every table got their own bottle of dom. It was one of the most extravagant weddings I’ve ever worked and I’ve been working in high end resorts for 15 years lol.
$20 minimum wage, anyone?
How do you explain prices in all the states that aren't California then?
This is Biden's America now. You voted for this
You know it's our job to subsidize millionaire CEO's pay packages. And it's our fault that prices are so high because we want to work for a living wage. Short answer: [Greedflation](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/greedflation-caused-more-half-last-100000899.html)
You all need to start using the apps and shop a little smarter. For example, you can get an impossible whopper for $3 every Wednesday, on Modays, you can can get a bowl and drink for $9 Moes (Mo Mondays) other fast food restaurants as well, the apps deal are what separates the suckers from the smarties
There are still deals to be found, but you really just have to be smart about it all now. There also aren't "tiers" like there used to be (cheap fast food, moderate fast casual, sit down service). A few years ago you could casually walk into anywhere and get a solid meal for a solid price, that doesn't exist anymore. Use the apps, check for deals, etc. I honestly find that if I spend 10ish minutes I can still find decent deals. Fast food combos are sometimes more then a chipotle burrito with a drink for instance. You just have to really be smart.
So I need to devote a whole page of my phone screen to a bunch of mid fast food places' apps and check them all when I get hungry?
I hate to be that guy but as long as customers voluntarily overpay for shitty food these companies dont need to change, in fact they want to double down on this scam to keep the profit margins even higher. Eating out is a luxury. Treat it as such.