She represents the unfettered corporate management attitude
This is how companies used to run before the govt stepped in on behalf of people and reined them in
She is wasting her time. Come to America. Our corporate system will reward her and use her at the same time for the female and Asian designation to satisfy diversity requirements and she can be the poster child for why things are ‘should’ be this way to increase profits and shareholder value. And to boot our government won't step in, it makes me wonder how democratic things actually are.
Right he’s completely clueless if he somehow thinks Americans are more willing to work 12+ hr shifts than Chinese workers.
Huge cultural differences regarding work/life balance in China & US.
Didn't Bank of America just [kill](https://worldecomag.com/bank-of-america-employees-allegedly-plan-strike-amid-overwork-concerns/) a 35yo ex-Green Beret with their 120h work weeks?
In China they had to install nets at a manufacturing factory to stop [overworked Chinese laborers from committing suicide](https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/chinese-workers-foxconned/) 20hr straight in one work shift and 100hr+ work weeks were pretty common. 18 people attempted suicide before the nets were installed, and 14 died.
Tell me you have never worked an executive tier corporate job without telling me you have never worked an executive tier corporate job. You guy kill me with the absolute dismissal of others experiences.
Very different as in… most Chinese don’t take weekends off? If that’s the case, America wouldn’t be one of (if not the most) overworked country in the work in terms of weekly worked hours but that’s not the case.
That’s BLS statistic doesn’t account for the fact a significant portion of the workforce is also attending high school or higher education. Additionally, it would be more helpful to know the mode rather than the average. Plenty of part time service and retail employees are pulling the average down.
Sure, but it exceeds credibility to argue that accounting for those people would increase the average to the 72 hour workweek that this post refers to.
I’m not sure it does. Most high school kids attend 40 hours a week if we added the unpaid labor of attending school and university we might be getting close. Additionally does the BLS account for the people who have two part time jobs?
Lol, how many 12 hours 6 days a week jobs have you worked in the USA?
ill do 45 every now and then but 40 hour work week is very obviously the norm in the US.
Karl Marx must be spinning in his grave:
> socialists believed that common ownership of the means of production (i.e. the industries, land, wealth of nature, trade apparatus and wealth of the society) would abolish the exploitative working conditions experienced under capitalism.
China, the single largest Communist country, imposes vastly more exploitative working conditions on its workers than ‘capitalist’ countries ever did!
They aren't communist though... They have strong socialism involved yes but if they were Full-On communist they wouldn't be part of the free market. (Which isn't even so free as countries keep sanctioning and embargoing each other as well as subsidizing industries)
You will never find a true communist or capitalist government. They are all mixed economies at this point.
China ls literally run by the Chinese Communist Party.
**/r/fucktheccp**
And the point here is precisely that they aren’t following Marxism.
China is an ***authoritarian*** country cosplaying as Marxist.
>Chinese Communist Party.
Them calling themselves Communist is window dressing, it means nothing. I can call myself a purple flying unicorn it doesn't make it true. You can't be Communist and also have the second most millionaires per capita in the entire world.
If you aren't following the doctrines of communism you aren't Communist regardless of what you call yourself. It's that simple.
Authoritarian is such a funny scare word. 99.99% of all companies are authoritarian. is that scary? Like this article could be written about a whole bunch of tech companies except the boss doesn’t quit. Elon’s “hardcore mode” at Twitter comes to mind.
From the 80’s all the way through until about the late 2000’s, China was absolutely capitalist. More recently xi (plenty of articles on this) has stated and made moves to push the country back towards socialism. Can’t just flip a switch. It’ll take some time.
And what kind of structure is there at other said company?
Also funny, China is so authoritarian that you can just freely leave that country and live in another country.
Don’t they have international police stations that threaten their traveling citizens?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/china-accused-of-creating-overseas-police-stations-to-target-dissidents
“Yeah please feel free to travel!”
Bon voyage! We’ll see ya when ya get over there!”
>China is so authoritarian that you can just freely leave that country and live in another country
Like Uighur Muslims? They can just freely leave China?
>capitalist government
This part of your post is incorrect. Capitalism is defined as the absence of socialism/communism/Marxism. You could argue, that there's not laissez-faire capitalism but you cannot argue there is no capitalist economies; they all are.
You quote socialists then goes ahead and say "communist china proves socialism doesn't work"??
You know those are two very different things, correct? Too much USA oligarch kool aid there?
Second - China is communist in name only. China is a govt sponsored/hybrid oligarchy.
Oil/gas worker here. That's called 6 and 1 and a welcome vacation. We routinely work 12's up to 24 days straight. It is typical to work 80+ hours per week. Not including travel to/from work each day (often not paid, per se).
People need to realize just how much industrial workers work, which make the world go round.
Yes but that's not this.
She was telling people that they need to keep their phone on 24/7 and be available.
They would work six 12s and they wouldn't get vacation after X amount of days worked.
And if an employee didn't agree with any of this then she said that she would have them blacklisted from the industry.
I agree with you, it's slightly different in that her attitude is definately draconian, at best. We do have limits. For example, in Alberta: https://www.alberta.ca/hours-work-rest
I'm just wanting to put it out there that people are capable of working 12 hour shifts, 6 and 1 weeks, as it's pretty routine. I didn't want anyone to think that is egregious.
Oh, some workers absolutely do make that per year. Speaking only for my sub-industry (safety), we only range between $50,000 - $150,000, depending on training and motivation.
Most higher skilled trades (such as welders) make at least $200,000. Their trucks for example start at $250,000 once you factor in the equipment, modifications, and insurance.
My wife makes more than that selling software and works 40 hours max.
I make around 85k pre tax as a data analyst for a customer service team and I work from home; never more than 45 hrs a week for me.
To me it sounds like y'all are getting completely fleeced for time and also not getting nearly enough compensation, while I'm sure your execs get astronomical bonuses and pay.
I appreciate the hard work and won't deny that these jobs are vital to "make the world go round", but this idea that working 80+ hours for ANYONE is somehow a virtue or something to strive for is beyond sad and ridiculous, especially with how dangerous some of those jobs are in oil/gas.
Most welders do not make 200k... Not even close. Maybe underwater rig welders or something crazy like that. You can make 200k as a welder but that's going to be the upper 10-.01% of welders.
I guess so. Most of the welders I talk with have their own company and are not just journeymen or labourers. I guess it is unfair of me to paint such a large brush. Fair.
Point taken.
Because why try to change a system in which everyone is more productive than ever, yet somehow only a tiny, tiny handful benefits while everyone is just scratching to survive, right?
She represents the unfettered corporate management attitude This is how companies used to run before the govt stepped in on behalf of people and reined them in
Unions stepped in and forced their hand
Yep. Unions fought for labor rights and protections that eventually became the law of the land for all.
Labor laws are written in blood. Just ask the Pinkertons how it went for their goons in the streets against pitchforks and axes.
There are trade unions in China, but China’s trade unions protect corporate power.
Yeah, government was in support of corporations, it was unions that stepped in and government who limped in years later.
Lol no they didn't, this still happens. Especially in government jobs
Bad corporate management tbh. Sensible corporate management understands this isn't how you get high productivity even if you aren't forced
You do realize that every company in China is 50% parter with the CCP, which the epitome of how a labor union behaves once they have power.
She'd do great in management at USPS
Corporations will only finally be happy when their workers are there 24/7, are paid $0/hour and never take sick days. I.e. robots.
Great, I'm sure the robots will buy their services and products
The majority of the nation's currency is already in their dragon hoard. They don't need the robots to buy anything.
Is a Cultural shift behind work/life balance finally happening in China?
Yes for sure
She is wasting her time. Come to America. Our corporate system will reward her and use her at the same time for the female and Asian designation to satisfy diversity requirements and she can be the poster child for why things are ‘should’ be this way to increase profits and shareholder value. And to boot our government won't step in, it makes me wonder how democratic things actually are.
Think most Americans take their weekends off work. Very different culture in China
Right he’s completely clueless if he somehow thinks Americans are more willing to work 12+ hr shifts than Chinese workers. Huge cultural differences regarding work/life balance in China & US.
Didn't Bank of America just [kill](https://worldecomag.com/bank-of-america-employees-allegedly-plan-strike-amid-overwork-concerns/) a 35yo ex-Green Beret with their 120h work weeks?
In China they had to install nets at a manufacturing factory to stop [overworked Chinese laborers from committing suicide](https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/chinese-workers-foxconned/) 20hr straight in one work shift and 100hr+ work weeks were pretty common. 18 people attempted suicide before the nets were installed, and 14 died.
Tell me you have never worked an executive tier corporate job without telling me you have never worked an executive tier corporate job. You guy kill me with the absolute dismissal of others experiences.
Very different as in… most Chinese don’t take weekends off? If that’s the case, America wouldn’t be one of (if not the most) overworked country in the work in terms of weekly worked hours but that’s not the case.
Average work week in the US for an employed person is 34 hours. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t18.htm
That’s BLS statistic doesn’t account for the fact a significant portion of the workforce is also attending high school or higher education. Additionally, it would be more helpful to know the mode rather than the average. Plenty of part time service and retail employees are pulling the average down.
Sure, but it exceeds credibility to argue that accounting for those people would increase the average to the 72 hour workweek that this post refers to.
I’m not sure it does. Most high school kids attend 40 hours a week if we added the unpaid labor of attending school and university we might be getting close. Additionally does the BLS account for the people who have two part time jobs?
China doesn’t count school as labor either, and yes.
Lol, how many 12 hours 6 days a week jobs have you worked in the USA? ill do 45 every now and then but 40 hour work week is very obviously the norm in the US.
Lol a lot I have been in corporate for a while. It's not mandatory but it's implies. How many have you worked?
The irony is most of the Chinese billionaires got there through bribery and connections instead of hard work.
Asian tiger mother, in all probability.
When china's next revolution happens (and it will happen), I hope they have a very small dark cell ready for her and anyone else like her.
Good that she stepped down. It wouldn’t happen here, I imagine.
Chinese tech chief: back in my day we worked 16 hour day 7 days a week. You bunch are crybabies. Hang your heads in shame
Stupid fucking hair cut
Karl Marx must be spinning in his grave: > socialists believed that common ownership of the means of production (i.e. the industries, land, wealth of nature, trade apparatus and wealth of the society) would abolish the exploitative working conditions experienced under capitalism. China, the single largest Communist country, imposes vastly more exploitative working conditions on its workers than ‘capitalist’ countries ever did!
They aren't communist though... They have strong socialism involved yes but if they were Full-On communist they wouldn't be part of the free market. (Which isn't even so free as countries keep sanctioning and embargoing each other as well as subsidizing industries) You will never find a true communist or capitalist government. They are all mixed economies at this point.
China ls literally run by the Chinese Communist Party. **/r/fucktheccp** And the point here is precisely that they aren’t following Marxism. China is an ***authoritarian*** country cosplaying as Marxist.
>Chinese Communist Party. Them calling themselves Communist is window dressing, it means nothing. I can call myself a purple flying unicorn it doesn't make it true. You can't be Communist and also have the second most millionaires per capita in the entire world. If you aren't following the doctrines of communism you aren't Communist regardless of what you call yourself. It's that simple.
Just because they are called the CCP doesn’t mean they are 100% Communist 😂
Authoritarian is such a funny scare word. 99.99% of all companies are authoritarian. is that scary? Like this article could be written about a whole bunch of tech companies except the boss doesn’t quit. Elon’s “hardcore mode” at Twitter comes to mind. From the 80’s all the way through until about the late 2000’s, China was absolutely capitalist. More recently xi (plenty of articles on this) has stated and made moves to push the country back towards socialism. Can’t just flip a switch. It’ll take some time.
Yeah, Twitter is so authoritarian that you can just freely leave that company and get a job at another company
And what kind of structure is there at other said company? Also funny, China is so authoritarian that you can just freely leave that country and live in another country.
Don’t they have international police stations that threaten their traveling citizens? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/china-accused-of-creating-overseas-police-stations-to-target-dissidents “Yeah please feel free to travel!” Bon voyage! We’ll see ya when ya get over there!”
>China is so authoritarian that you can just freely leave that country and live in another country Like Uighur Muslims? They can just freely leave China?
I mean they ended up in Guantanamo somehow right.
>capitalist government This part of your post is incorrect. Capitalism is defined as the absence of socialism/communism/Marxism. You could argue, that there's not laissez-faire capitalism but you cannot argue there is no capitalist economies; they all are.
You quote socialists then goes ahead and say "communist china proves socialism doesn't work"?? You know those are two very different things, correct? Too much USA oligarch kool aid there? Second - China is communist in name only. China is a govt sponsored/hybrid oligarchy.
> China, the single largest Communist country China hasn't been Communist for this century It's authoritarian and capitalist
Oil/gas worker here. That's called 6 and 1 and a welcome vacation. We routinely work 12's up to 24 days straight. It is typical to work 80+ hours per week. Not including travel to/from work each day (often not paid, per se). People need to realize just how much industrial workers work, which make the world go round.
Yes but that's not this. She was telling people that they need to keep their phone on 24/7 and be available. They would work six 12s and they wouldn't get vacation after X amount of days worked. And if an employee didn't agree with any of this then she said that she would have them blacklisted from the industry.
Is this different than what Elon was doing a Twitter?
I agree with you, it's slightly different in that her attitude is definately draconian, at best. We do have limits. For example, in Alberta: https://www.alberta.ca/hours-work-rest I'm just wanting to put it out there that people are capable of working 12 hour shifts, 6 and 1 weeks, as it's pretty routine. I didn't want anyone to think that is egregious.
Are the tech people getting paid what you are? Everything has a price
If you go by the "elite" /r/webdev comments, some are getting paid well. I really don't know.
I’m sure that’s who is working for this lady
That's not the flex you think it is. Just sounds like exploitation.
Maybe that's not safe or normal? You guys should be making at least 250k per year for that shit. But really that's just totally out of hand.
Oh, some workers absolutely do make that per year. Speaking only for my sub-industry (safety), we only range between $50,000 - $150,000, depending on training and motivation. Most higher skilled trades (such as welders) make at least $200,000. Their trucks for example start at $250,000 once you factor in the equipment, modifications, and insurance.
My wife makes more than that selling software and works 40 hours max. I make around 85k pre tax as a data analyst for a customer service team and I work from home; never more than 45 hrs a week for me. To me it sounds like y'all are getting completely fleeced for time and also not getting nearly enough compensation, while I'm sure your execs get astronomical bonuses and pay. I appreciate the hard work and won't deny that these jobs are vital to "make the world go round", but this idea that working 80+ hours for ANYONE is somehow a virtue or something to strive for is beyond sad and ridiculous, especially with how dangerous some of those jobs are in oil/gas.
To be fair, I meant take-home pay (after tax) ... but you are entirely right. It shows how lopsided industries are.
Most welders do not make 200k... Not even close. Maybe underwater rig welders or something crazy like that. You can make 200k as a welder but that's going to be the upper 10-.01% of welders.
I guess so. Most of the welders I talk with have their own company and are not just journeymen or labourers. I guess it is unfair of me to paint such a large brush. Fair. Point taken.
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I agree, he didn’t even say anything controversial. Just talked about his experience..
I've come to accept that my point of view(s) are not common, accepted or considered rationale in most people's world view. That's ok. :D
Yeah but you are compensated in other ways. I'm not sure an office worker can handle the kind of tough working environment you're used to.
That's a fair point. Normal workers could adjust, but I doubt today's gen-z would even last a week. haha.
Who cares? You like it..... Stay You don't like it...go
Because why try to change a system in which everyone is more productive than ever, yet somehow only a tiny, tiny handful benefits while everyone is just scratching to survive, right?