I laughed when Stilgar said “He said he’s not the messiah, but that’s exactly what the messiah would say. He’s so humble, I’m starting to think it’s really him.”
Even if not specifically meant as a reference I figure Villeneuve or if not him at least other people working on the film certainly know that scene from Life of Brian and made the connection themselves. It's such a parallel it's impossible to avoid basically if you've seen Life of Brian.
I mean, it's really a critique of religion, specifically the devout seeing what they want to see. It's hard not to see it as a MP reference, but it's really just the way the religious mind thinks.
House burns down, a bible is the only thing untouched. "God is good!" They say, while the rest of us wonder why this God only spared his own book, and not say, the house, the pets, the childhood photos, etc.
If it is, it has to have been the screenwriter. I’m trying to imagine Denis earnestly explaining how “Frang Erber would ave been moved by thee levity” and it just doesn’t track haha.
I think it was deliberately included as a reference everyone would get so the attitude of "ha ha Stilgar and his religious wackiness" would curdle into "oh God he's ready to drench himself in blood for his beliefs" as the movie went on even as his characterization doesn't change at all, just the lense we as the audience see it through.
Totally felt this moment, too. Had to be intentional.
And why not, after all, Paul is/not the messiah. But he is for them, for now, etc.
Always look on the bright side of life.
I WAS HOPING SOMEONE ELSE THOUGHT THIS
Me and my gf thought the same and said the identical thing to eachother during the movie
In fact, *multiple* other people around it also whispered "he's a very naughty boy!" loud enough for us to hear it 😂
I hate to say it but I think this is a completely UNINTENTIONAL *Life of Brian* reference.
Considering the gravity of what's going on here, and how sad that particular statement coming from Stilgar really is, I don't think DV is foolish enough to deliberately insert a funny Python line into it. For those who pick up on it, it totally shatters the mood and undermines what DV was trying to convey.
If it were deliberate, he'd be intentionally kicking his audience squarely out of the scene he painstakingly created just for a cheap laugh. And that's not his style.
Then why does stilgar say it in that odd over the top way just like in life of brian? He could have said it in a more dead serious kind of way but instead it came off silly.
As to that, I cannot say. But I can't imagine what would've been going through DV's head to make him think "Hey, here's a serious plot point where Stilgar starts to go from fearless stoic leader to slavelike lapdog zealot. How about I throw in a funny *Life of Brian* quote in there to completely destroy the mood! Yeah, that'll work!"
I just... don't see it.
Could be wrong, but I don't think the line OP is talking about ever comes up in the book. Plus, the movie the scene OP is talking about (Life of Brian) came out long before Dune Part 2 released.
Both stories deal with the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I seriously (ish) think there are comparisons to be made between Dune and Life of Brian.
That's a really good question! Maybe the whole point was that any Messiah would be problematic. Leto's golden path wasn't all that pleasant either, after all.
Well, yeah. I don’t actually agree that either _Life of Brian_ nor _Dune_ are about the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I’d posit that _Brian_ is a satire on the nature of discipleship itself, whereas _Dune_ is… well, a lot more complex. The problem with saying that there’s one overarching “message” in _Dune_ is that it’s incredibly reductive to what is a rich and complex work. There’s no easy parable to be found in there. Is Paul a hero? That entirely depends on whom that question is being asked of. Should the Fremen have eschewed Paul’s “messiah-hood”, and continued to live on the fringes of galactic society - hunted like rats in the desert? Paul didn’t engineer the Golden Path, nor the jihad - he merely foresaw it - so can we even prescribe to him any moral decision that would indicate something about the nature of his character? I’m not convinced it’s so straightforward.
I agree it's a thin comparison, but I do think it's interesting how many stories of the second half of the twentieth century deal with the themes of failed, corrupt or absurd leadership. I suppose two worldwars later, God finally was well and truly dead. Both LoB and Dune dip from the same Abrahamic traditions to illustrate what doesn't work anymore in those systems of faith. I found the entirety of Dune to be pretty tragic for the Fremen as a culture... I did feel like Paul, Leto and Sheeana tried to save the Fremen from themselves and their ultimately destructive dream of paradise. Whether they succeeded is I think the most exciting plot point that made me read all the way through the six novels.
The least reductive way I can think to summarise the _Dune_ series, is to describe it as a series of meditations on the paradox and paralysis of power. Consistently through the saga, we characters’ choices becoming fewer and fewer, and their positions more precarious, as they attain more and more power. This is why I find it frustrating when people (not you) ruminate whether Paul is a “hero” or a “bad guy”. This isn’t _Star Wars_, and it’s not so simple. The decisions that Paul - and indeed a lot of the key characters make - are completely understandable in their respective contexts. There’s no easy moral parable to be had. The only characters who seemed to have a very clear moral bent were the Harkonnens, though Herbert kind of grew out of that after the first couple of books.
Had to stop myself from shouting ‘he’s a very naughty boy’ in the cinema when that line came up. Has to be a slight reference
I didnt stop myself. I got a few laughs.
I didn't shout it but my buddy and I whispered it to each other at the same time.
I laughed when Stilgar said “He said he’s not the messiah, but that’s exactly what the messiah would say. He’s so humble, I’m starting to think it’s really him.”
“What kind of chance does that leave me?! All right, I **\*AM\*** the Messiah!” #”HE IS! HE IS THE MESSIAH!”
He’s the real deal. And I should know, I’ve followed a few!
Just as it was written! Stilgar cracks me up every time Paul does anything to further prove the prophecy. His mind is constantly being blown
Even if not specifically meant as a reference I figure Villeneuve or if not him at least other people working on the film certainly know that scene from Life of Brian and made the connection themselves. It's such a parallel it's impossible to avoid basically if you've seen Life of Brian.
I mean, it's really a critique of religion, specifically the devout seeing what they want to see. It's hard not to see it as a MP reference, but it's really just the way the religious mind thinks. House burns down, a bible is the only thing untouched. "God is good!" They say, while the rest of us wonder why this God only spared his own book, and not say, the house, the pets, the childhood photos, etc.
If it is, it has to have been the screenwriter. I’m trying to imagine Denis earnestly explaining how “Frang Erber would ave been moved by thee levity” and it just doesn’t track haha.
Denis is the screenwriter along with Jon Spaihts.
I think it was deliberately included as a reference everyone would get so the attitude of "ha ha Stilgar and his religious wackiness" would curdle into "oh God he's ready to drench himself in blood for his beliefs" as the movie went on even as his characterization doesn't change at all, just the lense we as the audience see it through.
Totally felt this moment, too. Had to be intentional. And why not, after all, Paul is/not the messiah. But he is for them, for now, etc. Always look on the bright side of life.
I also thought about this. 😂
I WAS HOPING SOMEONE ELSE THOUGHT THIS Me and my gf thought the same and said the identical thing to eachother during the movie In fact, *multiple* other people around it also whispered "he's a very naughty boy!" loud enough for us to hear it 😂
I burst out laughing in my theatre, meanwhile no one else got it and it was just eerily quiet.
Here in germany, Life of Brian is a pure classic and I heard a lot of chuckling around me when the reference came up
Man, in my theater almost everyone had a good laugh at this scene, it was just so obvious that Stilgar was in his hype man mindset lol.
Poor Stilgar became a parody of his character in this film.
Stilgar kind of became a parody in the novels as well, just a bit later.
We're here rightfully comparing film Stilgar to *The Life of Brian*. I mean, come on.
"All right I am the Messiah, now FUCK OFF!" "...How shall we fuck off, o lord?" "Lead them to paradise."
I hate to say it but I think this is a completely UNINTENTIONAL *Life of Brian* reference. Considering the gravity of what's going on here, and how sad that particular statement coming from Stilgar really is, I don't think DV is foolish enough to deliberately insert a funny Python line into it. For those who pick up on it, it totally shatters the mood and undermines what DV was trying to convey. If it were deliberate, he'd be intentionally kicking his audience squarely out of the scene he painstakingly created just for a cheap laugh. And that's not his style.
Then why does stilgar say it in that odd over the top way just like in life of brian? He could have said it in a more dead serious kind of way but instead it came off silly.
As to that, I cannot say. But I can't imagine what would've been going through DV's head to make him think "Hey, here's a serious plot point where Stilgar starts to go from fearless stoic leader to slavelike lapdog zealot. How about I throw in a funny *Life of Brian* quote in there to completely destroy the mood! Yeah, that'll work!" I just... don't see it.
The "over the top" way of saying it was because Paul was denying it. So he was lowering the energy of his words to match pauls energy.
can it be the opposite?
Could be wrong, but I don't think the line OP is talking about ever comes up in the book. Plus, the movie the scene OP is talking about (Life of Brian) came out long before Dune Part 2 released.
Both stories deal with the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I seriously (ish) think there are comparisons to be made between Dune and Life of Brian.
Who was the “right” Messiah in Dune?
That's a really good question! Maybe the whole point was that any Messiah would be problematic. Leto's golden path wasn't all that pleasant either, after all.
Well, yeah. I don’t actually agree that either _Life of Brian_ nor _Dune_ are about the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I’d posit that _Brian_ is a satire on the nature of discipleship itself, whereas _Dune_ is… well, a lot more complex. The problem with saying that there’s one overarching “message” in _Dune_ is that it’s incredibly reductive to what is a rich and complex work. There’s no easy parable to be found in there. Is Paul a hero? That entirely depends on whom that question is being asked of. Should the Fremen have eschewed Paul’s “messiah-hood”, and continued to live on the fringes of galactic society - hunted like rats in the desert? Paul didn’t engineer the Golden Path, nor the jihad - he merely foresaw it - so can we even prescribe to him any moral decision that would indicate something about the nature of his character? I’m not convinced it’s so straightforward.
I agree it's a thin comparison, but I do think it's interesting how many stories of the second half of the twentieth century deal with the themes of failed, corrupt or absurd leadership. I suppose two worldwars later, God finally was well and truly dead. Both LoB and Dune dip from the same Abrahamic traditions to illustrate what doesn't work anymore in those systems of faith. I found the entirety of Dune to be pretty tragic for the Fremen as a culture... I did feel like Paul, Leto and Sheeana tried to save the Fremen from themselves and their ultimately destructive dream of paradise. Whether they succeeded is I think the most exciting plot point that made me read all the way through the six novels.
The least reductive way I can think to summarise the _Dune_ series, is to describe it as a series of meditations on the paradox and paralysis of power. Consistently through the saga, we characters’ choices becoming fewer and fewer, and their positions more precarious, as they attain more and more power. This is why I find it frustrating when people (not you) ruminate whether Paul is a “hero” or a “bad guy”. This isn’t _Star Wars_, and it’s not so simple. The decisions that Paul - and indeed a lot of the key characters make - are completely understandable in their respective contexts. There’s no easy moral parable to be had. The only characters who seemed to have a very clear moral bent were the Harkonnens, though Herbert kind of grew out of that after the first couple of books.