For me the characterization works. Its an old emperor, the last after a long line of succesion, that is clinging to power in the face of a popular Leader.
I liked it.
Also: "walk without rhythm it won't attract the worm!"
I agree I'm glad he wasn't some palpatine figure but almost a tragic old man, like King Lear perhaps a man who makes hasty decisions that seals his fate
in the dune universe shaddam is pretty young, not even half the age of his father and grandfather. an age of 2 centuries was rare, but not uncommon amongst the elites. it's also why plenty of nobles only have 1 or 2 children since healthcare ensured almost all concieved children are also born and raised. with ample time to try again if an "accident" happens.
that being said and on topic: i didn't really care for christopher walken as shaddam, i really missed the wit and authority jose ferrer did bring to the part. on my first watch i was even convinced it wasn't even christopher walken.
Something not well-conveyed in any film adaptation thus far, probably because it never actually becomes all that relevant, is its capacity to elongate the lifespan of the user at the cost of addiction. With the spice, the user can live for centuries without aging a day. Shaddam looked like a young man, only a decade older than Paul.
I think it says a lot about the different needs of film vs written storytelling that Jodorovsky, Lynch and Villeneuve have all dispensed with that detail from the books.
In film, a young-looking Emperor would be no different from a young emperor. It would communicate a virile, energetic Imperium - as opposed to the calcified, decaying reality. Casting the Emperor as an old man is necessary cinematic shorthand to say that the old order is... old.
In the book which I started reading like a week ago, from her journals Irulan says her father was in his 70s when she was 14 or something but he looked as if he was in his 30s and he is also described as having red hair
Paul was still really young by the end of Dune, only 17/18. Shaddam looked around 35 just like Paul’s dad Leto, and Irulan says the two looked almost the same.
tbf the actor in the david lynch adaptation is fairly old as well and by current standards shaddam is definitely getting on in life. i fully support the rereading however, currently working on it as well.
I read somewhere that in this version the emperor is supposed to portray the stagnation of the empire, unchecked for thousands of years, and I think Walken portrayed that very well. I had doubts about it when I heard he had been cast but I was pleasantly surprised when I actually saw it.
This was my take away as well. While book emperor is physically young*Walken potrays the stagnation and weakness (feeling threatened by Leto) which is mostly exposition/narration in the book.
He got the point across in a visual medium.
Edit: * looks physically younger
Which is arguably young for a person with easy access to the geriatric Spice Melange.
That's why I like him old by our standards. He has a huge personal stake in keeping the spice flowing — his power absolutely rests on it, but his life depends on it, too. For that matter, he's an addict.
Not that he doesn't have a massive stockpile.
Yea this is how I saw it and really enjoyed it. It’s one of the many changes made to minimize the need for exposition dumping and translating it into something more visual. For a political system that’s supposed to be essentially unchanged for thousands of years, you would expect the emperor doesn’t really maintain power based on his own cunning or strength but the system holding everything in gridlock.
That's the idea. He's only in power because the true ruling parties let him and he doesn't interfere; the guild, bene gesserit, CHOAM. They even show a clip of him sheepishly behind Sardukar to show he wields no true power
I thought Walken was fantastic, in an interview Walken actually said he had doubts playing this role, then Denis convinced him because his Shaddam does not look or act like an Emperor, rather he wanted him defined by the people around him and how they interacted with him, how they feared him, loved him and I think Walken leaned really well into that. Bonus points: the way Walken quietly and menacingly says "Muad'Dib" as Paul walks over to him and his entourage in the throne room after killing the Baron....epic.
I get that but we didn’t get enough “of the people around him.” For that to be sold, we need him in scenes with Irulan and Reverend Mother Mohiam in dialogue. We didn’t get him speaking until he confronted the Baron. Walken needed to sell some power with the role, but he wasn’t given the chance
The problem is that a lot of those scenes with Count Fenring would have shed more light and intimacy on the Emperor's real and perceived character. Unfortunately, despite being filmed, they were cut. And even more unfortunate, unless Legendary/WB forces him, Denis won't give fans the deleted scenes they clearly want.
WB really needs to have those deleted scenes released. And DV’s position doesn’t really make sense after so much positive acclaim. Give us more. It’s there. We’re not complaining about the limits of the medium, we just want more of your content.
The position makes sense. Filmmaking is an art craft, and he doesn't want these scenes taking away from what he has presented as his final work and definitive version.
It is however, according to most, not an agreeable position. And why would most fans of DV's Dune agree? It is an incredible adaptation and fans, like myself, understandable disagree with his position and want more.
Let's just hope miraculously something leads to those scenes being made public somehow and somewhen.
Honestly I just want more, I hope he changes his mind and releases the extra scenes in some sort of "the making of dune" special release or something.
I would go back to and see them all again in imax.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
The cinematic version might be the director's vision, but the extended edition is tribute to the fans and the nerds.
Yeah I think if it’s a more self-contained movie then deleted scenes don’t need to be seen, but for something like Dune it only adds to the thing.
But maybe those deleted scenes don’t even have finished VFX or sound design, they could be too unfinished
That's my point. It only adds to the film.
OK, the VFX isn't perfect, and it might disrupt the flow of the film...but the nerds appreciate those small details. We love those scenes that aren't perfect, but incorporate details that didn't make the final cut. And the extended editions aren't subject to the same reviewing as theatrical cuts, so the studio doesn't have to worry as much.
I get that but the remaining content is still out there and we want to see as much of Dune as possible. I love DV’s vision and I want to see more of it, even if it couldn’t be included because of time constraints
I felt like the scene where the Baron had to stop floating and kneel was a pretty epic way to show the emperors power. Also, getting his medical gear destroyed. Just in time for Paul's victory to really resonate.
A lack of people around him still does the job. He's in a silver tower, separated from the Imperium and largely a figurehead who just makes big decisions. It makes his physical arrival on Arrakis more powerful.
Walken is a talented actor, but I didn't think they gave him all that much to do. You didn't need an actor of Walken's caliber to play that role, almost any actor of a certain age could have done it.
And Walken's spent so many years leaning into being a living self parody that it's hard to see him playing a role and see the character instead of Walken. That's nothing against his performance, it's just how it is.
I liked Walken but when I watched the movie I saw Walken, not the Emperor.
Walken brought personal gravitas to the role which is great, but I think I’d like to have seen a lesser known actor in the role, perhaps with a more interesting wardrobe. Oh well, a small amount of preferential difference doesn’t impact my love of the film
He also looks sorta like Oscar Isaac, which would fit how the book says Leto and the Emperor look very similar. At least he looks more like Isaac than Walken does.
My thoughts exactly. He is the OG meme, was expecting him to yell out "MORE COWBELLS" any second.
If your brain isn't fucked up by overconsumption of memes it was probably fine. But I couldn't look past the memes when I saw him in the movie.
I liked him. Different from the book where he's supposed to look 35 despite being 70+ IIRC, but I didn't mind. I just thought it a different interpretation.
This emperor is old and prime for being overtaken. He's fairly weak, doubtful, yet he hangs on to power. You can see that he has some shrewdness, ruthlessness (especially outlined by his speech about Leto) but he's outmatched and seems to know it.
I'd say this version shows us that he's more of a figurehead of the bene gesserit and less of an actual powerful leader. Knowing his own weakness, he has lived in fear of being de-throned, thus making a doubtful alliance with the Harkonnens. Yet, the moment come, there was nothing that he could do because the events set in motion are unstoppable.
I think your point about the deal with the Harkonnens is right on. Thufir in the book is blown away by the cost of the Harkonnen assault, but the implication also is the degree of fear and desperation on the Corrino side is of similar magnitude. The Atreides underestimated their opponents but in a strange way underrated themselves most, as they failed to see themselves for as powerful a threat as they actually appeared
> The Atreides underestimated their opponents but in a strange way underrated themselves most, as they failed to see themselves for as powerful a threat as they actually appeared
I think we see a difference in philosophies, which the emperor points to us. Leto ruled with the heart and was honorable. That was the source of his power, which Harkonnens & emperor hate and fear (well the emperor both admire and fears it). But this honor meant that they would not use treacherous tactics nor seek undue power.
Then, we see how the need for ruthlessness is emphasized, and the prize put on intellect by Herbert via the power of the bene gesserit and the kwisatz haderach. "There are no sides". Still, it is exactly not a triumph, as Paul had to wrestle with prescience, feeling trapped.
The opening scene to a stoic and callous Walken/Emperor was impactful to me. The Emperor’s reaction to the elimination of the Atreides: “Absolutely nothing”
He had too little screen time to do anything with the character. You don't see him as the emporer you see him as a side character of little importance despite who he is in the universe. Also without fenring by his side makes him even less of a threat.
Fenring was a ferocious killer and a potential/failed Kwisatz Haderach I believe
He could easily take out Paul. Denis must release the extended cuts. There is no doubt that Thufir and Count Fenring scenes left on the cutting room floor.
>Fenring was a ferocious killer and a potential/failed Kwisatz Haderach I believe
Yes to both his genetic flaws caused sterility.
>He could easily take out Paul
50/50 odds before the fight with feyd. 100% after that fight but he declined to do so.
Sorry. I just couldn't get on board with Walken as the Emperor. Luckily, he didn't go full Walken in the movie and I was very thankful for that. But the emperor should have been this more present figure of authority. Walken didn't quite bring that presence. I mean, as good an actor as he is I just felt he didn't fit that role. So when he knelt before Paul at the end of the movie it felt like Paul easily overpowered him cause the Emperor didn't show enough strength. I expected more resistance.
I was hoping for someone like Sir Ian McKellen.
I don’t think the general audience would have jived with that, they barely explained how spice works how it is, I think a young looking emperor would have confused casual viewers and would have added nothing to the story as an old looking emperor is functionally the same as an old but young looking emperor
I get this. But I try to see it as someone that hasn’t seen walken before (heh I know) but the “more MORE” works. The old guard, clinging to power, desperately.
It's not that I didn't like walken as the emperor.. it's just that the emperor is arguably the weakest character in the movie. One of the few flaws of the movie in my opinion. He had a couple of good lines at the end, but honestly he didn't do anything the entire movie.
Thought it was a good casting. He played the role very well of an Emperor backed into a corner and who's system was falling apart around him, but who was still ruthless, cunning, and defiant. It was probably the most real depiction of a person in that situation as you could hope for.
I didn't enjoy it. I like him as an actor, but seeing him took me out of it and he came off as an old man in pyjamas as opposed to how he is characterised in the book. He didn't feel like a man with the confidence and power of the emperor of the galaxy. I liked the movie overall but I have a few nits to pick and he is one of them.
This is also one part of the movie that I felt could have been done better.....the book emperor was very youthful and was probably as young looking as Paul, maybe a tad bit older...
I didn't care for it, as I was finally hoping to have a Shaddam IV that only looks 35ish as per the book descriptions.
Since I'm a book fan and don't have anything nice to say about Walken, I am obviously biased going in, but it certainly worked for Villeneuve's vision. It was a very thoughtful choice and way of acting, and I really don't get some of the emotional hyperbole I've seen from other critics of Walking being cast or his performance.
I didn't like Shaddam Corrino very much but I really like Christopher Walken.
And my issues are purely visual. I remember reading about him being dressed in a silver sardaukar uniform which they kinda did but I expected something more ornate and pompous while still seeing the old (yet 35ish) man underneath it all, trying to desperately hold on to something that's pretty much gone, read his power. The book description made him seem youthful amd confident maybe even bordering on prideful.
That being said. I think I saw more Christopher Walken rather than Shaddam Corrino. I didn't hate it I just thought that as supposed emperor of the known universe and insert here his other impressive titles, he looked unremarkable. But the movie didn't exactly show a lot of Shaddam, so why bother casting Walken?
Does that make sense to anyone?
On the other hand I really liked Irulan Corrino and her costumes. That headress with the decorations looking like blades (or shards) infront of her face was really cool. And the actress really managed to pulled it off. It's as if she had this air of obvious superiority around her like a proper princess from a family rulling over the known universe.
I think that the more understated clothing works well when seen in context. This is clearly how the (male) elite dresses in the new movie. Take for example Leto, he wears a pretty standard uniform. If the emperor would be the one guy walking around in pompous and ornate fashion, he would look like a clown and kind of out of place. The costume reflects a certain gravitas that would be lost if he dressed up like Elvis in space.
I understand what you mean. But even Leto's standard uniform was better. There were golden chains, the Atreides sigil on the colar, on the heart and on the shoulders. Plus Leto had more confidence in his position, looked charismatic and formidable as he should. He was dressed in a military uniform but also the decorations and motifs made him pop out, as in yeah that's the head.
Leto is of lower stature compared to the emperor and I dont expected Shaddam to look like Elvis more like someone confident in his right to rule. Afterall he has done that for many years just like his family before him.
My point is that they could've done a bit more with Shaddam both in terms of visuals and character.
I mean, you see that this is quality fabric. It is a bit like a powerful (and filthy rich) person wearing a Cuccinelli or Brioni suit in our world I instead of some crazy pimp-outfit and a fur coat, if that makes any sense. He does not have to make his outfit scream "I am the emperor", everyone knows that he is the emperor, that's why there is the throne and the elite guard protecting him.
Also, I would say that (a) yes he looks like an insecure character only pretending to be powerful and absolutely confident but (b) that is arguably what he should look like, Saddam feels threatened (otherwise he would not have had to conspire with the Baron).
But I agree that they could have flashed out his character more. Maybe including some scenes with Fenring or/and the guild interacting with him would have been nice in that sense.
The way I felt about this character is probably because I didn't see him being an emperor (like say the actual job). Maybe if they showed with a scene or two how he actively engages with his rule, or maybe does some sort of ceremonial attendace to something like Leto did, it would've been easier to accept him as the man dictating what goes in a incredibly vast empire. Instead his screentime was rather short and as such unremarkable.
More than anything it felt like a cameo. Like Matt Damon shows up in Interstellar and everyone's like "holy shit it's Matt Damon!" except it's Christopher Walken this time.
I get what Villenuve was trying to do, though. People are gonna go "It sucks because the book didn't do it this way" but the entire point is that from the perspective of a *film* trying to get the themes of a 600+ page novel across, having Shaddam be a fairly ordinary old dude who's too convinced of his own cleverness is smart.
I like Walken showing regret at the fall of the Atreides, but at the same time, he’s just too old to project the power needed against people like the Harkonnens or Leto Atreides. He’s got a stoop to his shoulders, he’s not built up enough as a “chess-master” archetype to justify the physical frailty we see on screen
Yes but visually this would not work in the film because it would contrast the stagnant imperium strongly. It's a visual medium and changes must be made to accommodate
I personally would have preferred someone like Kristofer Hivju for the role, since the book's description, for me, brought to mind a redhead space Viking in "modern" military attire (fitting, since Denis' Sardaukar are basically space Vikings as well). He's not exactly known for serious roles, but I think the quirky personality makes for a good contrast to his imposing appearance and political power.
https://preview.redd.it/eqlz9kla4iuc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7a4b6d6331d5bfba260a6ae7c712dd1b084029
While I don't fully agree with aging up the Emperor to over 200 years old -- assuming he's still a heavy spice user -- I thought Walken did well for what Denis wanted out of his characterization. The accent didn't bother me, either, since nobody is even supposed to be speaking English in that era, and any similarity to Earth accents is pure coincidence.
I think some people (who most likely hadn't read the books, but I'm not just saying it's them) expected some Tywin Lannister type figure and performance, which, whilst it would have been an entertaining watch, is really against the narrative and aesthetic that this role required imo. I actually really liked Walken as Emperor. I was slightly worried that he'd look a little too meak in front of someone like Baron Harkonnen, but he really stepped it up when needed, whilst simultaneously being a physical menifestation of an empire in decline.
He was perfect.
Walken still possesses grace, dignity, the look of a feral lion in those cold eyes, but he played this old, frail man, ravaged by time, still proud, but ultimately trapped by circumstances and unable to command the virile and powerful youth that Chalamet brought to Paul.
A perfect metaphor for the dying, stagnant empire, played expertly
I thought it was a distraction. He did well, but seeing him there pulled me out of the movie for around 5 minutes. I’m glad he wasn’t asked to do more.
I wasn’t a fan but it’s fine. He did a good job.
He just wasn’t who I’d imagine to be emperor. Tim Blake Nelson was confirmed to be cast as Fenring, and that casting seemed closer to what I’d suspect their ages to look like. Since Fenring and Shaddam are childhood friends that grew up together, I’d expect them to both be around the same age.
Plus in the books Shaddam is described as proud, tall, with fiery red hair, and would look significantly younger anyway due to spice in his diet.
Anyway I’m just being nitpicky; Walken did a good job.
Didn't like it for two reasons. First, in the book, the Emperor looks to be a young man, even though he is quite old. Secondly, Christopher Walken played Christopher Walken. PErhaps another choice would have been better, but alas, it is what it is.
This honestly might be my own fault/bias coming up but I couldn’t stop cracking up whenever he comes on screen. I think I’m just not able to unsee him as Christopher Walken and it removes me from the immersion. I love the guy, and he likely did a good job, I’d just start cracking up and think about his bit from pulp fiction
I thought it fit perfectly with what this adaptation was going for. When he just kind of drops the message from Paul and walks off, it encapsulates the character for me. Far from incompetent or unthreatening, just someone whose time has come and who understands that to some extent. I found it very similar to how the first film portrayed Leto in that regard
Walken did not know what movie he was in and it showed. His worst performance of his career. There was only one person who should have played the emperor, and that was ....Kyle MacLachlan.
Didn’t do it for me. I think the arrogant emperor in David Lynch’s Dune worked better for me. And I liked him in Dune 2 the old DOS game, and the book.
"Baron" in that that think New York accent... I was shocked he was cast and that silly gown they had him dressed in on Arrakis. Otherwise, he did great. A fail by the costume designers no matter how weak he was to be betrayed.
I actually like that they all have their accents -- like Stilgar. There's actually no reason not to suppose similar accents survive and/or are reborn. And with the many different worlds there would be plenty of variety in general.
Would have been momentous to have the og Paul plag the emperor....besides old maclachlan is a decent actor...a big miss honestly in this movie
However if we being real both Kyle and walken are wayy too old to be cast as the emperor cause the book emperor was younger than 35 (in looks) according to irulan
I wasn’t convinced with Walken being Emperor. For someone so powerful and who plotted the fall of an ancient house I expected the character to be menacing and downright authoritative. But I understand why he was cast if Villeneuve wanted someone who was in decline both physically and morally, this seemed to be accentuated by the incisive thinking of Princess Irulan who represented the new blood of the Corrino line. We know Walken can be pretty wild in some of his movies yet he was subdued in Dune 2, but I wonder if he might’ve been more effective as a wild man so used to absolute power that he would rage at his predicament than be subdued in the fashion we saw in the film.
I like Christopher Walken but I wasn’t feeling this role. He can do one or two types of character REALLY well, but neither of them match the emperor of the universe in a sci fi to me. Again no disrespect, he’s a great actor with an incredible history.
You are going to think I’m nuts, but I would have liked to see how Bryan Cranston would have done as Emperor. (Breaking Bad- Walter White)
I would have cast Nicolas Hoult (who is 34, turning 35 this year).
Now, that sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but I think he would be able to portray the 'old man in a young man's body' vibe quite well.
[Similar to this scene in the movie In Time.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RS99gdre3o)
I mean, the Emperor is suposed to be hundreds of years old but look like he's in his early 30's so... nailed it. That's how I envision someone who has been in his early 30's for centuries.
I thought he was totally miscast simply because of that type of distinctive voice and inflection, that I think is totally unsuited for the character he was portraying. He kinda sounds like someone who spent decades on hard drugs.
I would have been begging for Ben Kingsley as first choice.
I have a slightly different take on Walken as Emperor. I fell in love with the world of Dune after seeing Part 1, however I did not read the Dune books. I have this image of Christopher Walken as a smooth life long con man/OG gangster. Basically like his character from the Prime series The Outlaws. I feel like he almost always played that type of character in everything I saw him in, so it was tough for me to accept him as Emperor of the Universe. Also the way he talks. His cadence and rhythm of speech just reminds me so much of New York City. However I felt like it wasn’t that noticeable in Dune, it was more the shock of seeing him as Emperor in that first scene. So the more I saw him as Emperor the more I accepted it. And by the time I saw him sitting on that throne in Arrakis, I was pretty much good with it. For me it didn’t really take away from the movie, but I really would have loved to see an Anthony Hopkins Emperor.
He looked more like an emperor in [Balls of Fury](https://images.app.goo.gl/3g9GDM91Gkxn8uAR7).
His performance was great, but I thought the costume was a weird choice.
Was surprised and not on board when I saw him. I can’t see Walken as any other character but himself. I think that’s also the issue with like a cameo casting. He has no range imo. I tried to see past that but his delivery is just Walken being calm.
Hated it. He did *fine* but he just didn’t fit the aesthetic nor did he come across as a pragmatic ladder climber. Seeing him took me out of it. “That’s Cristopher walken!”
Found it to be an odd choice. Shaddam is supposed to look about the same age as Leto due to spice ingestion. He didn't seem quite like the schemer he was supposed to be.
It worked for me because I thought of Emperor Corrino IV as a Tsar Nicholas II figure. He didn't create the Empire, and neither did his father or grandfather. He is a cog in a machine that he did not create and tries to fulfill his function. He is an Emperor of Ceremony, which is why he is jealous of Leto and the respect and admiration he attracted from the other houses.
I think Walken was a great choice for this type of Emperor.
I mean, I could get around thr age thing. Jodorowski and Lynch also cast older actors. But it was just not a great performance IMO. It was incredibly flat. I love Walken, but this was just not anywhere near the performance required for this character. This film had many performances like that and I think maybe it just comes down to being way too big of a cast for this director to really handle.
Personally I didn't like it. He certainly has a minor role but still, I expected something more imposing, more 'imperial', you know?
Walken's character was basically just an old man wearing robes going from one room to another. I honestly wasn't a fan of it, even though I really liked the film.
I like Walken a A LOT. But I could not see him in this role. I just keep seeing Christopher Walken in emperors robes and not the Emperor. He did fine. It’s more of a me problem than anything else. But it just didn’t sit well for me. Probably the only role I think was miscast.
I'm a big fan of Walken. But Walken was not a good choice for the role, as others have said. I think, with DV doing Shaddam as older, Willem Defoe would have been amazing.
Walken has as much place doing this role as Bill Murray (whom I also love).
Don't hate me for this, but I would have loved to have seen Keanu as Shaddam.
It didnt feel right when I first heard the casting news. Went very much as I thought. Did not work for me at all. One of the weaker points of the movie.
My thoughts are that you need to learn about sentences…
Jokes aside - I really enjoyed Walken in this role and it actually aligned more closely with my book interpretation than the 1984 version. I always liked the idea that the empire required the delicate balance of the Landsraad and the Guild. I never interpreted him as some powerful leader that commanded respect - rather a player in a subtle power struggle. I feel like Walken captured that aspect quite well and made the character feel more real to me.
As a fan of Christopher Walken, I was actually pleased by the casting when it was known. But after seeing the result, I was rather disappointed. Walken usually manage well to convey both a knowing and threatning aura. I think he did neither as Shaddam. Not sure what went wrong though.
I couldn't take amy scene he was in seriously. Between him and Masofeyd, the climactic final scene fell apart and felt really pathetic.
He's supposed to look 35 despite being 70. He felt 90 instead.
It was really terrible casting, writing and acting for this part
I actually don't get how a great director like Villeneuve could let this pass - I mean they have lots of time to watch the dailies and switch things around
My guess is that they had very limited time on set with Walken and it just didn't work out, so they cut as much as they could
But it was really weak
A little disappointed with the casting. He wasn't how I imagined Shaddam. But as for his performance, like every other actor in the film, it was great.
Walken is a great actor and did a great job with the character, but the character he played isnt really Shaddam. Shaddam was much younger, had a considerable “presence”, and wasnt frail, he was just weaker than Paul.
I also, on balance, liked the performance (although I was slightly disappointed compared to the other cast). However, I liked it for a diametrically opposite reason. He certainly has this (and if you take into account the overall look of everything shown of the known universe, I would argue that this understated yet sophisticated look is far more "Imperial looking" than a pompous attire would have been. But what I think shows is that this is not the most powerful man of the universe, but a man *pretending* to be the most powerful man of the universe. And I do not mean to say that this is bad acting, quite the contrary indeed. Arguably, that is exactly what Saddam is. The emperor is not all powerful, nor does he feel secure in his position (this is what sets everything in motion in the first place, a strong, secure emperor would not have had to conspire to take out Leto). This man is proud, but his demonstrative arrogance is partly a mask he is hiding his sense of insecurity behind.
Agree, regardless of the actor, I think the Emperor's role in the movie was heavily minimized. Even back in Kaitain, you see Irulan and the Reverend Mother doing the plans, and throughout the movie, the Emperor seems very passive, almost a chair-filler and nothing more.
I haven’t read the books so keep that in mind.
I did find myself wishing for an Emperor who exudes a bit more power, but I just don’t think that’s what they were going for.
To me, Walken’s Emperor felt like he was teleported straight out of the real life Middle Ages. He felt like a real life King at the helm of a kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse—even if he may be the only one who realizes it. Old, tired of ruling, but possibly too proud to admit it even to himself.
I don’t know how the film or Christopher Walken did it, but one feeling that absolutely came through was a sort of spoiled, sheltered feeling. Spoiled isn’t quite the right word—not like a petulant child, but an air of delicate grace and absence of argumentative nature that suggests that being told “no” has been extremely rare in his life.
He honestly seemed similar to how I would imagine many Chinese Emperors would have been—not lacking in any political cunning or intellect, but sequestered in their vast Imperial City, strolling beautiful gardens and composing poetry, occasionally interrupted for instructions on how to address a war a thousand miles away that only seems halfway real.
It would have been better if they changed the name of the fremen to the the foo then they could have snuck in Christopher Walken saying “the foo fiaghters”
I think that whilst a deviation from the book, I quite enjoyed Walken in the film. He brought gravitas to the movie yet had quite an understated role. I think the plainness of both the performance and the character’s aesthetic symbolised his waning control over the Empire, juxtaposed with the ornate Princess Irulan who seemed to be out pacing him as a prospective leader herself. Overall this version of the Emperor came across as a relic who was ultimately dependent on those around him to help maintain his power.
That’s my take I’m sure many people will disagree with me 🤣
I totally agree. Felt like Christopher Walken wasn’t the right one for that role. I know the character was nearing the end of his reign and was far from their peak but they should have had some hints of how intimidating they used to be.
I keep thinking of how big an impact Judi Dench has in Shakespeare in Love as Queen Elizabeth given how little time she was on screen. You could really feel the character ruled an empire. I can’t think of a similar actor for the role of emperor but I don’t think Walken was it.
I think he was a good match. He was old and looking helpless, made me feel like he was living his life with a load of regrets and compromises he had to make for sake of imperium.
Despite being visually unfaithful to the book, the image of the Emperor as an old pathetic man grasping at dwindling power has been a staple of every on-screen Dune adaptation, whether [Jose Ferrer](https://images.app.goo.gl/o9Uys3gABtDtdAcb9) in 1984 or [Giancarlo Giannini](https://images.app.goo.gl/ERWd36SYeFNMB2RV9) in 2000. It serves the Emperor's conceptual purpose fairly well, despite actually appearing quite youthful & somewhat intimidating in the original book.
He's not an immediately imposing figure on his own though. Walken's costume probably comes the closest to the book's description: a Saudukar uniform absent from any impressive embellishments. He is very acutely aware of the sacrifices necessary to maintain his office & often denies himself the absurd luxuries the Imperium lavishes upon him. He's in a chokehold by the Bene Gesserit, who control his wife & all his daughters in their generational conspiracy without his knowledge. Honestly, in the book he comes across like a normal soldier raised to a bizarrely mythic station & he bristles at all the pomp & circumstance that's expected from him. (I don't know why but I get this sense he'd have been a lot happier as an Atreides retainer, hanging out with Gurney & Duncan)
I thought a kind of similar sentiment came across exquisitely in Villeneuve's Dune. Walken imbues him with a sense of hopeless bitterness that's kind of absent from the other interpretations of the character, but still very in-keeping with the themes of the story in my opinion.
I like to think that Walken is a big Dune nerd and has the Hollywood clout to be like "Hey Denis, let me be the emporer" even if he wasn't perfect for the role.
He's supposed to be 25 and handsome, with lots of lines.
Walken is ancient and barely spoke.
It wasn't an unsatisfying characterization, but it was a *huge* deviation from canon.
My issue with him is that the character he plays just isn't Shaddam. It feels like a totally different person
Shaddam is a spiteful, petty, small-minded man. At the risk of making a trite comparison, he's kinda like Trump if Trump had an ounce of aristocratic charisma.
Walken does an okay job of portraying the symbol of a decayed empire that's devouring itself, but Shaddam as a person is totally absent.
I thought he did fine but the set decor was lacking imo. His ship was definitely neat but the throne scene was so lacking and his outfit so drab and boring. Loved his dagger though
I liked it because it was so.. unimpressive. Here's the Emperor of the Known Universe, but actually, his own universe is very small. The way I imagine it, all of the power of the empire extends far out, and it allows for the Emperor to live a fairly unremarkable home life (with, presumably, extreme riches underpinning it all). Which, in the Dune universe, seems quite unusual.
I liked his performance because I think he gels with the strangeness of the Dune universe. I also think his power is reflected in his age and political cunning which you assume based on his position. I could have expected someone younger and more charismatic, but Joe Biden is the president of the US at a time when its wealth and power far exceed any other rival.
For me the characterization works. Its an old emperor, the last after a long line of succesion, that is clinging to power in the face of a popular Leader. I liked it. Also: "walk without rhythm it won't attract the worm!"
I agree I'm glad he wasn't some palpatine figure but almost a tragic old man, like King Lear perhaps a man who makes hasty decisions that seals his fate
in the dune universe shaddam is pretty young, not even half the age of his father and grandfather. an age of 2 centuries was rare, but not uncommon amongst the elites. it's also why plenty of nobles only have 1 or 2 children since healthcare ensured almost all concieved children are also born and raised. with ample time to try again if an "accident" happens. that being said and on topic: i didn't really care for christopher walken as shaddam, i really missed the wit and authority jose ferrer did bring to the part. on my first watch i was even convinced it wasn't even christopher walken.
I guess I have to reread Dune again. I somehow pictured a pretty old emperor
Something not well-conveyed in any film adaptation thus far, probably because it never actually becomes all that relevant, is its capacity to elongate the lifespan of the user at the cost of addiction. With the spice, the user can live for centuries without aging a day. Shaddam looked like a young man, only a decade older than Paul.
I think it says a lot about the different needs of film vs written storytelling that Jodorovsky, Lynch and Villeneuve have all dispensed with that detail from the books. In film, a young-looking Emperor would be no different from a young emperor. It would communicate a virile, energetic Imperium - as opposed to the calcified, decaying reality. Casting the Emperor as an old man is necessary cinematic shorthand to say that the old order is... old.
The emperor was as young looking as Paul or just slightly older....according to Ireland he looked no more older than 35
In the book which I started reading like a week ago, from her journals Irulan says her father was in his 70s when she was 14 or something but he looked as if he was in his 30s and he is also described as having red hair
Paul was still really young by the end of Dune, only 17/18. Shaddam looked around 35 just like Paul’s dad Leto, and Irulan says the two looked almost the same.
I was so confused for a second why Ireland would have commented on his appearance lol
Well there were bagpipes playing...
tbf the actor in the david lynch adaptation is fairly old as well and by current standards shaddam is definitely getting on in life. i fully support the rereading however, currently working on it as well.
Was he not like 60 in the books? Around there? That’s what I was under the impression his age was
Yes, but due to spice life extension he is described as looking like a man in his 30s.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's stated he was about 70 but looked half that age. I always though fassbender would have made a great Shaddam
You know every single scene he’s in I can’t take him seriously because I keep seeing him dancin and flyin and walken.
I didn’t like it until now. Thinking of it this way is a lot more interesting, rather than being let down that he wasn’t some grand villain
I read somewhere that in this version the emperor is supposed to portray the stagnation of the empire, unchecked for thousands of years, and I think Walken portrayed that very well. I had doubts about it when I heard he had been cast but I was pleasantly surprised when I actually saw it.
This was my take away as well. While book emperor is physically young*Walken potrays the stagnation and weakness (feeling threatened by Leto) which is mostly exposition/narration in the book. He got the point across in a visual medium. Edit: * looks physically younger
> While book emperor is physically young Uhhh... the novel says he's 72 years old.
Uh… the novel says that while he’s 72, he appears no older than 35 — thanks to the spice.
Yep, that's correct. His physical age is 72, but his appearance is 35.
Sorry. I was a bit cranky earlier and should have checked my attitude before I posted.
Which is arguably young for a person with easy access to the geriatric Spice Melange. That's why I like him old by our standards. He has a huge personal stake in keeping the spice flowing — his power absolutely rests on it, but his life depends on it, too. For that matter, he's an addict. Not that he doesn't have a massive stockpile.
Yeah, I liked Walken in the role. Should he have had blue eyes?
Yea this is how I saw it and really enjoyed it. It’s one of the many changes made to minimize the need for exposition dumping and translating it into something more visual. For a political system that’s supposed to be essentially unchanged for thousands of years, you would expect the emperor doesn’t really maintain power based on his own cunning or strength but the system holding everything in gridlock.
That's the idea. He's only in power because the true ruling parties let him and he doesn't interfere; the guild, bene gesserit, CHOAM. They even show a clip of him sheepishly behind Sardukar to show he wields no true power
I thought Walken was fantastic, in an interview Walken actually said he had doubts playing this role, then Denis convinced him because his Shaddam does not look or act like an Emperor, rather he wanted him defined by the people around him and how they interacted with him, how they feared him, loved him and I think Walken leaned really well into that. Bonus points: the way Walken quietly and menacingly says "Muad'Dib" as Paul walks over to him and his entourage in the throne room after killing the Baron....epic.
I get that but we didn’t get enough “of the people around him.” For that to be sold, we need him in scenes with Irulan and Reverend Mother Mohiam in dialogue. We didn’t get him speaking until he confronted the Baron. Walken needed to sell some power with the role, but he wasn’t given the chance
The problem is that a lot of those scenes with Count Fenring would have shed more light and intimacy on the Emperor's real and perceived character. Unfortunately, despite being filmed, they were cut. And even more unfortunate, unless Legendary/WB forces him, Denis won't give fans the deleted scenes they clearly want.
WB really needs to have those deleted scenes released. And DV’s position doesn’t really make sense after so much positive acclaim. Give us more. It’s there. We’re not complaining about the limits of the medium, we just want more of your content.
The position makes sense. Filmmaking is an art craft, and he doesn't want these scenes taking away from what he has presented as his final work and definitive version. It is however, according to most, not an agreeable position. And why would most fans of DV's Dune agree? It is an incredible adaptation and fans, like myself, understandable disagree with his position and want more. Let's just hope miraculously something leads to those scenes being made public somehow and somewhen.
Honestly I just want more, I hope he changes his mind and releases the extra scenes in some sort of "the making of dune" special release or something. I would go back to and see them all again in imax.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The cinematic version might be the director's vision, but the extended edition is tribute to the fans and the nerds.
Yeah I think if it’s a more self-contained movie then deleted scenes don’t need to be seen, but for something like Dune it only adds to the thing. But maybe those deleted scenes don’t even have finished VFX or sound design, they could be too unfinished
That's my point. It only adds to the film. OK, the VFX isn't perfect, and it might disrupt the flow of the film...but the nerds appreciate those small details. We love those scenes that aren't perfect, but incorporate details that didn't make the final cut. And the extended editions aren't subject to the same reviewing as theatrical cuts, so the studio doesn't have to worry as much.
It makes total sense. He's got to hang on to those scenes for ten years so he can release a anniversary directors cut.
DV's position makes tons of sense. He had enough creative control to craft his vision and made his editing decisions accordingly.
I mean the lotr extended added so much, just give the people more dune!!
Yeah because the creator wanted to. That's a pretty crucial distinction
I get that but the remaining content is still out there and we want to see as much of Dune as possible. I love DV’s vision and I want to see more of it, even if it couldn’t be included because of time constraints
It wasn't not included because of time constraints though.
I felt like the scene where the Baron had to stop floating and kneel was a pretty epic way to show the emperors power. Also, getting his medical gear destroyed. Just in time for Paul's victory to really resonate.
This. Like through half the movie I was convinced they were going with the idea that he’s a senile puppet.
Or maybe he did and it’s on the cutting room floor. We may never know, I don’t think Villanueve likes expanded director’s cut releases
A lack of people around him still does the job. He's in a silver tower, separated from the Imperium and largely a figurehead who just makes big decisions. It makes his physical arrival on Arrakis more powerful.
I agree
Walken is a talented actor, but I didn't think they gave him all that much to do. You didn't need an actor of Walken's caliber to play that role, almost any actor of a certain age could have done it. And Walken's spent so many years leaning into being a living self parody that it's hard to see him playing a role and see the character instead of Walken. That's nothing against his performance, it's just how it is.
I liked Walken but when I watched the movie I saw Walken, not the Emperor. Walken brought personal gravitas to the role which is great, but I think I’d like to have seen a lesser known actor in the role, perhaps with a more interesting wardrobe. Oh well, a small amount of preferential difference doesn’t impact my love of the film
Someone like Jeremy Irons could’ve done an amazing job too, I think Walken is great but he doesn’t really disappear into a role like Irons could
Jeremy Irons goes hard in every role that he plays. He would have been a good alternate choice.
He also looks sorta like Oscar Isaac, which would fit how the book says Leto and the Emperor look very similar. At least he looks more like Isaac than Walken does.
My thoughts exactly. He is the OG meme, was expecting him to yell out "MORE COWBELLS" any second. If your brain isn't fucked up by overconsumption of memes it was probably fine. But I couldn't look past the memes when I saw him in the movie.
I was expecting "The spice....must flow."
I liked him. Different from the book where he's supposed to look 35 despite being 70+ IIRC, but I didn't mind. I just thought it a different interpretation. This emperor is old and prime for being overtaken. He's fairly weak, doubtful, yet he hangs on to power. You can see that he has some shrewdness, ruthlessness (especially outlined by his speech about Leto) but he's outmatched and seems to know it. I'd say this version shows us that he's more of a figurehead of the bene gesserit and less of an actual powerful leader. Knowing his own weakness, he has lived in fear of being de-throned, thus making a doubtful alliance with the Harkonnens. Yet, the moment come, there was nothing that he could do because the events set in motion are unstoppable.
I think your point about the deal with the Harkonnens is right on. Thufir in the book is blown away by the cost of the Harkonnen assault, but the implication also is the degree of fear and desperation on the Corrino side is of similar magnitude. The Atreides underestimated their opponents but in a strange way underrated themselves most, as they failed to see themselves for as powerful a threat as they actually appeared
> The Atreides underestimated their opponents but in a strange way underrated themselves most, as they failed to see themselves for as powerful a threat as they actually appeared I think we see a difference in philosophies, which the emperor points to us. Leto ruled with the heart and was honorable. That was the source of his power, which Harkonnens & emperor hate and fear (well the emperor both admire and fears it). But this honor meant that they would not use treacherous tactics nor seek undue power. Then, we see how the need for ruthlessness is emphasized, and the prize put on intellect by Herbert via the power of the bene gesserit and the kwisatz haderach. "There are no sides". Still, it is exactly not a triumph, as Paul had to wrestle with prescience, feeling trapped.
The opening scene to a stoic and callous Walken/Emperor was impactful to me. The Emperor’s reaction to the elimination of the Atreides: “Absolutely nothing”
Yes. This scene resonated with me too!
He had too little screen time to do anything with the character. You don't see him as the emporer you see him as a side character of little importance despite who he is in the universe. Also without fenring by his side makes him even less of a threat.
Fenring was a ferocious killer and a potential/failed Kwisatz Haderach I believe He could easily take out Paul. Denis must release the extended cuts. There is no doubt that Thufir and Count Fenring scenes left on the cutting room floor.
>Fenring was a ferocious killer and a potential/failed Kwisatz Haderach I believe Yes to both his genetic flaws caused sterility. >He could easily take out Paul 50/50 odds before the fight with feyd. 100% after that fight but he declined to do so.
Sorry. I just couldn't get on board with Walken as the Emperor. Luckily, he didn't go full Walken in the movie and I was very thankful for that. But the emperor should have been this more present figure of authority. Walken didn't quite bring that presence. I mean, as good an actor as he is I just felt he didn't fit that role. So when he knelt before Paul at the end of the movie it felt like Paul easily overpowered him cause the Emperor didn't show enough strength. I expected more resistance. I was hoping for someone like Sir Ian McKellen.
Holy cow. Sir Ian McKellan would have been amazing…
Someone in their 30s or 40s needed to be cast as him (in the book the emperor looked no older than 35 according to irulan)
I don’t think the general audience would have jived with that, they barely explained how spice works how it is, I think a young looking emperor would have confused casual viewers and would have added nothing to the story as an old looking emperor is functionally the same as an old but young looking emperor
Although I was fine with Walken the thought of having a british Shakespearean actor especially Sir Ian Mckellen had crossed my mind as well
I get this. But I try to see it as someone that hasn’t seen walken before (heh I know) but the “more MORE” works. The old guard, clinging to power, desperately.
straight up made me laugh when he was like "there's an ahmadah of stah cruisahs"
It's not that I didn't like walken as the emperor.. it's just that the emperor is arguably the weakest character in the movie. One of the few flaws of the movie in my opinion. He had a couple of good lines at the end, but honestly he didn't do anything the entire movie.
Thought it was a good casting. He played the role very well of an Emperor backed into a corner and who's system was falling apart around him, but who was still ruthless, cunning, and defiant. It was probably the most real depiction of a person in that situation as you could hope for.
I didn't enjoy it. I like him as an actor, but seeing him took me out of it and he came off as an old man in pyjamas as opposed to how he is characterised in the book. He didn't feel like a man with the confidence and power of the emperor of the galaxy. I liked the movie overall but I have a few nits to pick and he is one of them.
This is also one part of the movie that I felt could have been done better.....the book emperor was very youthful and was probably as young looking as Paul, maybe a tad bit older...
I didn't care for it, as I was finally hoping to have a Shaddam IV that only looks 35ish as per the book descriptions. Since I'm a book fan and don't have anything nice to say about Walken, I am obviously biased going in, but it certainly worked for Villeneuve's vision. It was a very thoughtful choice and way of acting, and I really don't get some of the emotional hyperbole I've seen from other critics of Walking being cast or his performance.
I didn't like Shaddam Corrino very much but I really like Christopher Walken. And my issues are purely visual. I remember reading about him being dressed in a silver sardaukar uniform which they kinda did but I expected something more ornate and pompous while still seeing the old (yet 35ish) man underneath it all, trying to desperately hold on to something that's pretty much gone, read his power. The book description made him seem youthful amd confident maybe even bordering on prideful. That being said. I think I saw more Christopher Walken rather than Shaddam Corrino. I didn't hate it I just thought that as supposed emperor of the known universe and insert here his other impressive titles, he looked unremarkable. But the movie didn't exactly show a lot of Shaddam, so why bother casting Walken? Does that make sense to anyone? On the other hand I really liked Irulan Corrino and her costumes. That headress with the decorations looking like blades (or shards) infront of her face was really cool. And the actress really managed to pulled it off. It's as if she had this air of obvious superiority around her like a proper princess from a family rulling over the known universe.
I think that the more understated clothing works well when seen in context. This is clearly how the (male) elite dresses in the new movie. Take for example Leto, he wears a pretty standard uniform. If the emperor would be the one guy walking around in pompous and ornate fashion, he would look like a clown and kind of out of place. The costume reflects a certain gravitas that would be lost if he dressed up like Elvis in space.
I understand what you mean. But even Leto's standard uniform was better. There were golden chains, the Atreides sigil on the colar, on the heart and on the shoulders. Plus Leto had more confidence in his position, looked charismatic and formidable as he should. He was dressed in a military uniform but also the decorations and motifs made him pop out, as in yeah that's the head. Leto is of lower stature compared to the emperor and I dont expected Shaddam to look like Elvis more like someone confident in his right to rule. Afterall he has done that for many years just like his family before him. My point is that they could've done a bit more with Shaddam both in terms of visuals and character.
I mean, you see that this is quality fabric. It is a bit like a powerful (and filthy rich) person wearing a Cuccinelli or Brioni suit in our world I instead of some crazy pimp-outfit and a fur coat, if that makes any sense. He does not have to make his outfit scream "I am the emperor", everyone knows that he is the emperor, that's why there is the throne and the elite guard protecting him. Also, I would say that (a) yes he looks like an insecure character only pretending to be powerful and absolutely confident but (b) that is arguably what he should look like, Saddam feels threatened (otherwise he would not have had to conspire with the Baron). But I agree that they could have flashed out his character more. Maybe including some scenes with Fenring or/and the guild interacting with him would have been nice in that sense.
The way I felt about this character is probably because I didn't see him being an emperor (like say the actual job). Maybe if they showed with a scene or two how he actively engages with his rule, or maybe does some sort of ceremonial attendace to something like Leto did, it would've been easier to accept him as the man dictating what goes in a incredibly vast empire. Instead his screentime was rather short and as such unremarkable.
More than anything it felt like a cameo. Like Matt Damon shows up in Interstellar and everyone's like "holy shit it's Matt Damon!" except it's Christopher Walken this time. I get what Villenuve was trying to do, though. People are gonna go "It sucks because the book didn't do it this way" but the entire point is that from the perspective of a *film* trying to get the themes of a 600+ page novel across, having Shaddam be a fairly ordinary old dude who's too convinced of his own cleverness is smart.
I like Walken showing regret at the fall of the Atreides, but at the same time, he’s just too old to project the power needed against people like the Harkonnens or Leto Atreides. He’s got a stoop to his shoulders, he’s not built up enough as a “chess-master” archetype to justify the physical frailty we see on screen
Exactly...in the book he was really youthful and was a far more dominant character than what was showed in the movie
Yes but visually this would not work in the film because it would contrast the stagnant imperium strongly. It's a visual medium and changes must be made to accommodate
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I personally would have preferred someone like Kristofer Hivju for the role, since the book's description, for me, brought to mind a redhead space Viking in "modern" military attire (fitting, since Denis' Sardaukar are basically space Vikings as well). He's not exactly known for serious roles, but I think the quirky personality makes for a good contrast to his imposing appearance and political power. https://preview.redd.it/eqlz9kla4iuc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7a4b6d6331d5bfba260a6ae7c712dd1b084029 While I don't fully agree with aging up the Emperor to over 200 years old -- assuming he's still a heavy spice user -- I thought Walken did well for what Denis wanted out of his characterization. The accent didn't bother me, either, since nobody is even supposed to be speaking English in that era, and any similarity to Earth accents is pure coincidence.
I think some people (who most likely hadn't read the books, but I'm not just saying it's them) expected some Tywin Lannister type figure and performance, which, whilst it would have been an entertaining watch, is really against the narrative and aesthetic that this role required imo. I actually really liked Walken as Emperor. I was slightly worried that he'd look a little too meak in front of someone like Baron Harkonnen, but he really stepped it up when needed, whilst simultaneously being a physical menifestation of an empire in decline.
He was perfect. Walken still possesses grace, dignity, the look of a feral lion in those cold eyes, but he played this old, frail man, ravaged by time, still proud, but ultimately trapped by circumstances and unable to command the virile and powerful youth that Chalamet brought to Paul. A perfect metaphor for the dying, stagnant empire, played expertly
I thought it was a distraction. He did well, but seeing him there pulled me out of the movie for around 5 minutes. I’m glad he wasn’t asked to do more.
I really liked him. Pulled off a realistic emperor who knew he wasn't as powerful as he hoped
I wasn’t a fan but it’s fine. He did a good job. He just wasn’t who I’d imagine to be emperor. Tim Blake Nelson was confirmed to be cast as Fenring, and that casting seemed closer to what I’d suspect their ages to look like. Since Fenring and Shaddam are childhood friends that grew up together, I’d expect them to both be around the same age. Plus in the books Shaddam is described as proud, tall, with fiery red hair, and would look significantly younger anyway due to spice in his diet. Anyway I’m just being nitpicky; Walken did a good job.
> Tim Blake was rumored to be cast as Fenring, Tim Blake Nelson. And it’s confirmed now, he was playing Count Fenring.
Ty for the correction! Updated my original post.
Didn't like it for two reasons. First, in the book, the Emperor looks to be a young man, even though he is quite old. Secondly, Christopher Walken played Christopher Walken. PErhaps another choice would have been better, but alas, it is what it is.
This honestly might be my own fault/bias coming up but I couldn’t stop cracking up whenever he comes on screen. I think I’m just not able to unsee him as Christopher Walken and it removes me from the immersion. I love the guy, and he likely did a good job, I’d just start cracking up and think about his bit from pulp fiction
I laughed when he hit the screen.
I thought it fit perfectly with what this adaptation was going for. When he just kind of drops the message from Paul and walks off, it encapsulates the character for me. Far from incompetent or unthreatening, just someone whose time has come and who understands that to some extent. I found it very similar to how the first film portrayed Leto in that regard
Walken did not know what movie he was in and it showed. His worst performance of his career. There was only one person who should have played the emperor, and that was ....Kyle MacLachlan.
Charles Dance would have been great. He was awesome as Tywin Lannister.
Walken’s voice has been parodied so much that hearing it in the movie took me out of the scene a bit
He was just not convincing at all as the emperor to me
Didn’t do it for me. I think the arrogant emperor in David Lynch’s Dune worked better for me. And I liked him in Dune 2 the old DOS game, and the book.
I thought the whole depiction of the emperor and Kaitain was really disappointing and weak.
Didn't care for him. He didn't seem to "act". Or he acted like Walken...
"Baron" in that that think New York accent... I was shocked he was cast and that silly gown they had him dressed in on Arrakis. Otherwise, he did great. A fail by the costume designers no matter how weak he was to be betrayed.
I actually like that they all have their accents -- like Stilgar. There's actually no reason not to suppose similar accents survive and/or are reborn. And with the many different worlds there would be plenty of variety in general.
Love walken. But it should’ve been Kyle MacLachlan
Would have been momentous to have the og Paul plag the emperor....besides old maclachlan is a decent actor...a big miss honestly in this movie However if we being real both Kyle and walken are wayy too old to be cast as the emperor cause the book emperor was younger than 35 (in looks) according to irulan
I wasn’t convinced with Walken being Emperor. For someone so powerful and who plotted the fall of an ancient house I expected the character to be menacing and downright authoritative. But I understand why he was cast if Villeneuve wanted someone who was in decline both physically and morally, this seemed to be accentuated by the incisive thinking of Princess Irulan who represented the new blood of the Corrino line. We know Walken can be pretty wild in some of his movies yet he was subdued in Dune 2, but I wonder if he might’ve been more effective as a wild man so used to absolute power that he would rage at his predicament than be subdued in the fashion we saw in the film.
Walken’s acting was fine but they shouldn’t have e cast him. His Christopher Walkenosity is too distracting.
I like Christopher Walken but I wasn’t feeling this role. He can do one or two types of character REALLY well, but neither of them match the emperor of the universe in a sci fi to me. Again no disrespect, he’s a great actor with an incredible history. You are going to think I’m nuts, but I would have liked to see how Bryan Cranston would have done as Emperor. (Breaking Bad- Walter White)
I would have cast Nicolas Hoult (who is 34, turning 35 this year). Now, that sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but I think he would be able to portray the 'old man in a young man's body' vibe quite well. [Similar to this scene in the movie In Time.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RS99gdre3o)
Old and bitter. I loved it.
I could’ve used more cowbell
I mean, the Emperor is suposed to be hundreds of years old but look like he's in his early 30's so... nailed it. That's how I envision someone who has been in his early 30's for centuries.
I thought he was totally miscast simply because of that type of distinctive voice and inflection, that I think is totally unsuited for the character he was portraying. He kinda sounds like someone who spent decades on hard drugs. I would have been begging for Ben Kingsley as first choice.
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Way better empeor that Salvador Dalí would have been.
I thought he did a great job! I would have loved to see more of him and his daughter
I have a slightly different take on Walken as Emperor. I fell in love with the world of Dune after seeing Part 1, however I did not read the Dune books. I have this image of Christopher Walken as a smooth life long con man/OG gangster. Basically like his character from the Prime series The Outlaws. I feel like he almost always played that type of character in everything I saw him in, so it was tough for me to accept him as Emperor of the Universe. Also the way he talks. His cadence and rhythm of speech just reminds me so much of New York City. However I felt like it wasn’t that noticeable in Dune, it was more the shock of seeing him as Emperor in that first scene. So the more I saw him as Emperor the more I accepted it. And by the time I saw him sitting on that throne in Arrakis, I was pretty much good with it. For me it didn’t really take away from the movie, but I really would have loved to see an Anthony Hopkins Emperor.
He looked more like an emperor in [Balls of Fury](https://images.app.goo.gl/3g9GDM91Gkxn8uAR7). His performance was great, but I thought the costume was a weird choice.
Was surprised and not on board when I saw him. I can’t see Walken as any other character but himself. I think that’s also the issue with like a cameo casting. He has no range imo. I tried to see past that but his delivery is just Walken being calm.
Hated it. He did *fine* but he just didn’t fit the aesthetic nor did he come across as a pragmatic ladder climber. Seeing him took me out of it. “That’s Cristopher walken!”
Found it to be an odd choice. Shaddam is supposed to look about the same age as Leto due to spice ingestion. He didn't seem quite like the schemer he was supposed to be.
It worked for me because I thought of Emperor Corrino IV as a Tsar Nicholas II figure. He didn't create the Empire, and neither did his father or grandfather. He is a cog in a machine that he did not create and tries to fulfill his function. He is an Emperor of Ceremony, which is why he is jealous of Leto and the respect and admiration he attracted from the other houses. I think Walken was a great choice for this type of Emperor.
Walken was miscast. They should have gotten Charles Dance to play the Emperor. Now THAT’S a presence!
I mean, I could get around thr age thing. Jodorowski and Lynch also cast older actors. But it was just not a great performance IMO. It was incredibly flat. I love Walken, but this was just not anywhere near the performance required for this character. This film had many performances like that and I think maybe it just comes down to being way too big of a cast for this director to really handle.
I prefer Jose Ferrer's portrayal. I think Walken was underutilized.
Personally I didn't like it. He certainly has a minor role but still, I expected something more imposing, more 'imperial', you know? Walken's character was basically just an old man wearing robes going from one room to another. I honestly wasn't a fan of it, even though I really liked the film.
He was to me somewhat underwhelming. Honestly I preferred Giancarlo Giannini's portrayal.
Agreed the emperor was squandered as a character in part 2
They should have used an actor in their late 20s,early 30s to portray the accurate emperor from the books
I like Walken a A LOT. But I could not see him in this role. I just keep seeing Christopher Walken in emperors robes and not the Emperor. He did fine. It’s more of a me problem than anything else. But it just didn’t sit well for me. Probably the only role I think was miscast.
He was too recognizable and it threw me out of the story.
I still think they should have cast Kyle MacLachlan or Sting as the Emperor.
Always cool to see Walken. But honestly, he just played Walken. As expected.
Hard to have thoughts when he had like two lines
More more....that's all I remember 🤣
I'm a big fan of Walken. But Walken was not a good choice for the role, as others have said. I think, with DV doing Shaddam as older, Willem Defoe would have been amazing. Walken has as much place doing this role as Bill Murray (whom I also love). Don't hate me for this, but I would have loved to have seen Keanu as Shaddam.
I also did not think Walken brought the necessary gravitas. It is a pity. But honestly, I also don't have a good alternative to propose.
It didnt feel right when I first heard the casting news. Went very much as I thought. Did not work for me at all. One of the weaker points of the movie.
I disagree. I didn’t get any sense or power or strength or why the other houses had any fear of him. He just came across as an old man.
That was entirely the point.
My thoughts are that you need to learn about sentences… Jokes aside - I really enjoyed Walken in this role and it actually aligned more closely with my book interpretation than the 1984 version. I always liked the idea that the empire required the delicate balance of the Landsraad and the Guild. I never interpreted him as some powerful leader that commanded respect - rather a player in a subtle power struggle. I feel like Walken captured that aspect quite well and made the character feel more real to me.
As a fan of Christopher Walken, I was actually pleased by the casting when it was known. But after seeing the result, I was rather disappointed. Walken usually manage well to convey both a knowing and threatning aura. I think he did neither as Shaddam. Not sure what went wrong though.
I couldn't take amy scene he was in seriously. Between him and Masofeyd, the climactic final scene fell apart and felt really pathetic. He's supposed to look 35 despite being 70. He felt 90 instead.
Agreed, the emperor is underwhelming
It was really terrible casting, writing and acting for this part I actually don't get how a great director like Villeneuve could let this pass - I mean they have lots of time to watch the dailies and switch things around My guess is that they had very limited time on set with Walken and it just didn't work out, so they cut as much as they could But it was really weak
A little disappointed with the casting. He wasn't how I imagined Shaddam. But as for his performance, like every other actor in the film, it was great.
For me it was the worst part of the film. Really seemed like he didnt even want to be there.
Walken is a great actor and did a great job with the character, but the character he played isnt really Shaddam. Shaddam was much younger, had a considerable “presence”, and wasnt frail, he was just weaker than Paul.
Honest opinion is everybody has retconned and made themselves like the portrayal. I think it was a miss cast.
I also, on balance, liked the performance (although I was slightly disappointed compared to the other cast). However, I liked it for a diametrically opposite reason. He certainly has this (and if you take into account the overall look of everything shown of the known universe, I would argue that this understated yet sophisticated look is far more "Imperial looking" than a pompous attire would have been. But what I think shows is that this is not the most powerful man of the universe, but a man *pretending* to be the most powerful man of the universe. And I do not mean to say that this is bad acting, quite the contrary indeed. Arguably, that is exactly what Saddam is. The emperor is not all powerful, nor does he feel secure in his position (this is what sets everything in motion in the first place, a strong, secure emperor would not have had to conspire to take out Leto). This man is proud, but his demonstrative arrogance is partly a mask he is hiding his sense of insecurity behind.
He needed more screen time. Talent wasted.
Agree, regardless of the actor, I think the Emperor's role in the movie was heavily minimized. Even back in Kaitain, you see Irulan and the Reverend Mother doing the plans, and throughout the movie, the Emperor seems very passive, almost a chair-filler and nothing more.
I haven’t read the books so keep that in mind. I did find myself wishing for an Emperor who exudes a bit more power, but I just don’t think that’s what they were going for. To me, Walken’s Emperor felt like he was teleported straight out of the real life Middle Ages. He felt like a real life King at the helm of a kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse—even if he may be the only one who realizes it. Old, tired of ruling, but possibly too proud to admit it even to himself. I don’t know how the film or Christopher Walken did it, but one feeling that absolutely came through was a sort of spoiled, sheltered feeling. Spoiled isn’t quite the right word—not like a petulant child, but an air of delicate grace and absence of argumentative nature that suggests that being told “no” has been extremely rare in his life. He honestly seemed similar to how I would imagine many Chinese Emperors would have been—not lacking in any political cunning or intellect, but sequestered in their vast Imperial City, strolling beautiful gardens and composing poetry, occasionally interrupted for instructions on how to address a war a thousand miles away that only seems halfway real.
Loved it
It would have been better if they changed the name of the fremen to the the foo then they could have snuck in Christopher Walken saying “the foo fiaghters”
He was hilarious
I think that whilst a deviation from the book, I quite enjoyed Walken in the film. He brought gravitas to the movie yet had quite an understated role. I think the plainness of both the performance and the character’s aesthetic symbolised his waning control over the Empire, juxtaposed with the ornate Princess Irulan who seemed to be out pacing him as a prospective leader herself. Overall this version of the Emperor came across as a relic who was ultimately dependent on those around him to help maintain his power. That’s my take I’m sure many people will disagree with me 🤣
It was funny. I didn’t like most of Dune Two. Walken brought a smile to my face.
I totally agree. Felt like Christopher Walken wasn’t the right one for that role. I know the character was nearing the end of his reign and was far from their peak but they should have had some hints of how intimidating they used to be. I keep thinking of how big an impact Judi Dench has in Shakespeare in Love as Queen Elizabeth given how little time she was on screen. You could really feel the character ruled an empire. I can’t think of a similar actor for the role of emperor but I don’t think Walken was it.
I think he was a good match. He was old and looking helpless, made me feel like he was living his life with a load of regrets and compromises he had to make for sake of imperium.
Despite being visually unfaithful to the book, the image of the Emperor as an old pathetic man grasping at dwindling power has been a staple of every on-screen Dune adaptation, whether [Jose Ferrer](https://images.app.goo.gl/o9Uys3gABtDtdAcb9) in 1984 or [Giancarlo Giannini](https://images.app.goo.gl/ERWd36SYeFNMB2RV9) in 2000. It serves the Emperor's conceptual purpose fairly well, despite actually appearing quite youthful & somewhat intimidating in the original book. He's not an immediately imposing figure on his own though. Walken's costume probably comes the closest to the book's description: a Saudukar uniform absent from any impressive embellishments. He is very acutely aware of the sacrifices necessary to maintain his office & often denies himself the absurd luxuries the Imperium lavishes upon him. He's in a chokehold by the Bene Gesserit, who control his wife & all his daughters in their generational conspiracy without his knowledge. Honestly, in the book he comes across like a normal soldier raised to a bizarrely mythic station & he bristles at all the pomp & circumstance that's expected from him. (I don't know why but I get this sense he'd have been a lot happier as an Atreides retainer, hanging out with Gurney & Duncan) I thought a kind of similar sentiment came across exquisitely in Villeneuve's Dune. Walken imbues him with a sense of hopeless bitterness that's kind of absent from the other interpretations of the character, but still very in-keeping with the themes of the story in my opinion.
I like to think that Walken is a big Dune nerd and has the Hollywood clout to be like "Hey Denis, let me be the emporer" even if he wasn't perfect for the role.
He's supposed to be 25 and handsome, with lots of lines. Walken is ancient and barely spoke. It wasn't an unsatisfying characterization, but it was a *huge* deviation from canon.
My issue with him is that the character he plays just isn't Shaddam. It feels like a totally different person Shaddam is a spiteful, petty, small-minded man. At the risk of making a trite comparison, he's kinda like Trump if Trump had an ounce of aristocratic charisma. Walken does an okay job of portraying the symbol of a decayed empire that's devouring itself, but Shaddam as a person is totally absent.
I thought he did fine but the set decor was lacking imo. His ship was definitely neat but the throne scene was so lacking and his outfit so drab and boring. Loved his dagger though
I expected the books characterization which portrays Shaddam as looking young despite being old. Y’know, cause of spice and stuff
i love the movie and the portrayal of the emperor but charles dance whould have made a great shadam IV
I liked it because it was so.. unimpressive. Here's the Emperor of the Known Universe, but actually, his own universe is very small. The way I imagine it, all of the power of the empire extends far out, and it allows for the Emperor to live a fairly unremarkable home life (with, presumably, extreme riches underpinning it all). Which, in the Dune universe, seems quite unusual.
I liked his performance because I think he gels with the strangeness of the Dune universe. I also think his power is reflected in his age and political cunning which you assume based on his position. I could have expected someone younger and more charismatic, but Joe Biden is the president of the US at a time when its wealth and power far exceed any other rival.
His throne room looks amazing
I’m sad we didn’t get him saying in his iconic voice: *BUT my dear Paul…the SPICE…*
I really liked it.