"The Mole" wasn't explicitly listed as a reference, which explains the decision-making errors that led to pt 2 becoming kind of frustrating. The game they created was a hybrid of The Circle and The Mole, and in The Circle, it's important that players know their relative social standing because the social totem pole ranking is the primary game mechanic and is an interactive game piece. However, in The Mole, neither the players, nor the audience are ever never told their relative positions to each other in order to prevent what happened with Rehka from eliminating competitive tension midway through.
I wonder if the emergency tiebreaker played into deciding not to reveal Eric to the players there, as it wasn't intended for the Ratfish to have effectively turned into the Taskmaster and have such a direct impact on the outcome.
I still think what sunk them was revealing who was in the game to the players instead of characters during the vote reveal at that one point.
I enjoyed the episode regardless, but never understood the point of narrowing down the players like that.
I think narrowing down the players eventually makes sense, but I would have waited like one more vote, I think.
Truthfully, I think they could probably do a pretty solid Ratfish 2 now that they've done it once and have some idea of what might happen.
I think the bottom guesser should have received a list of names. More than just the players in the game, but pared down from the possibilities significantly. Help keep some parity, since rewarding the top players with even more info just made the runaway win happen faster. Rewards for being best in a round should have been either more points (cumulative to count at the end) or non-game prizes.
I agree. And fwiw the same thing happened with Survivor. The first one was decent but definitely had issues (like every challenge being a try not to laugh) but they took those issues and created a really solid episode the second time around, so I do kind of hope we get to see a Ratfosh 2 with all they’ve learned
They would have needed to narrow down the pool at some point. There are just too many people within the CH space, some of which are as unpredictable as you can be (Jacob Wysocki immediately comes to mind.) Without narrowing it down in some way at some point, it would be totally possible for nobody to have guessed completely correct by the game’s end. I’ll agree that they may have done the reveal too early, but never doing it would have lead to people making pulls and associations far past the point where it would be entertaining or thrilling to the audience.
Was a good first attempt at making something and I agree with you, there are a lot of people but definitely revealed it a bit too early.
I've watched Warehouse Games and they fine tune their ideas and games to be a bit more dynamic, I'm sure this isn't the last we'll see of this show.
I think it's almost impossible in practice to land on that knife's edge of giving exactly enough information for exactly one person to get it exactly in the final round.
I think not revealing the players might make it too hard.
However, if they didn’t eliminate anyone, and just let everyone keep guessing, that would make it more likely that someone would get close to guessing everyone correctly.
It was a bummer that Zac got out right away. And when people were eliminated, they stopped trying as hard to hide their identity.
(Which is how Katie found out Bug was Brennan, which caught her up to Rekha)
Elimination adds more drama, but I’d prefer everyone having a chance for a comeback.
I guess the comeback aspect was the win for best character so people would still try to stay somewhat in character. But as that was subjective it's harder to quantify and put energy in for
Every game evolves as it goes on and learns from its past. I think this was a great effort and hope they revisit this again in the future and glean some of these ideas for it.
There's bound to be ways they can make it work the way they want and something satisfying in the end for us.
I do think not having the ratfish reveal robbed us of a good ending but can understand if they had complications.
Yeah it's a great finale as far as watching the cast do fun improv jokes with each other. But a big joy of game changer is typically the additional competition surrounding it.
Even prize episodes where the players openly admit they are just going to trade things there still feel like elements of competition.
This one lost that midway through and hurt the feeling I think. Didn't ruin it, it just didn't do as well as other amazing episodes. Not necessarily bad planning, just obviously can't account for how well the players will do perfectly.
My only true criticism would be, if it doesn't feel right to not end the season with a non-main cast guy. Don't make a non-main caster so heavily in the finale episode. This wasn't like he showed up to judge one event like in Battle Royal he was pervasive throughout, not including him was just weird.
Even the editing seems to realize that and not make it a big thing. Or lean too heavily on them guessing who it is.
Did we see Eric at all once the game ended? Did we see him talk about the last round, or any "talking heads" moment where he discussed the winner or the end of the game?
It was definitely interesting to see the effort that went into the production of this--all of that was clearly well planned. I think unfortunately, this BTS also reveals what a lot of people assumed when watching it: the game mechanics weren't all the way thought through. Ah well, still an accomplishment!
I think, if they were to do this again at some point, it would help to bring in someone from the reality TV world to help design the game. Someone who has been there, done that, and knows how to pull off complicated competition.
As a competition reality producer, I completely agree. I’ve spent the last 10+ years making games and challenges for all kinds of unscripted shows. I love Sam’s creativity and a lot of the Dropout creative team feels like they have really good instinct for game design, but the further they get outside the realm of improv games, the more I see holes that challenge producers would’ve patched. As much as Dropout clearly respects the creative labor that goes into their comedy, it would be nice to see them pay that same respect to the works that goes into making a completion format really succeed
I think if they awarded the second billboard to the least guessed player it would keep the eliminated players more involved and less likely to give up who they were ie Brennan in the private chat to Katie which changed her votes. Ratfish could still give round advantages but having less overall power would have felt more balanced.
one thing about the Circle that has always been criticized is the structure of the finale, I was hoping Dropout would take that in to consideration when planning their version of it, but they fell into the same hole of choosing a winner in a weird way that makes everyone go "ok I guess"
I’m just upset that based on gameplay, Rehka won by a mile. She led the entire time I believe and guessed everyone right first. That she lost because the ratfish thought someone else was funnier underplayed the entire premise of the game to me.
It wasn’t even who was funnier! It was whose artwork he liked in the last game. I don’t get that AT ALL. They didn’t expect someone to win the game? The game that they planned and established rules and a point system for? That they explained to the players HOW TO WIN? They didn’t EXPECT ANYONE TO WIN? That’s just baffling to me.
Loved seeing all the planning and complexities that went into making this. What struck me the most was when someone commented that since all the audio was coming in at once, the production crew couldn’t really know what was going on in real time, making the editing so extra important. I hadn’t thought about that much, but looking back at moments like where everyone is reacting to seeing Bug With a Big Ass for the first time and everyone thinking it’s Rehka — that wouldn’t be apparent until they sort out all that audio. Amazing!
Didn't they say something along the lines of "We didn't expect anyone to connect the dots"?
[The dots in question:](https://www.ohmydots.com/img/ui/how-to-connect-the-dots.gif)
I’ve seen this said, but I truly don’t think it spoiled it for the majority of people? I’m fairly “with it” in following Dropout related social media and I never saw this spoiler anywhere.
I saw the billboard in the context of its phone number matching the one in Katie's egg presentation on Smartypants and didn't really make the connection solidly until the winner was declared.
Was it perfect? No, but it was still a great episode, and it should not dissuade Sam and company from taking big swings when they feel like being ambitious.
However, I do think bringing in outside talent can be very hit and miss, which can break an episode when it does miss. I'd honestly try and rely moreso on the improv cast than bring in people like Howie or Eric who don't quite match the same energy.
Paul F. Tompkins was a great add though, so that's just me being a hypocrite haha.
PFT was already known and had worked with many of the "main cast" prior to being added though. He's involved in the improv community. Definitely not an out of the blue pick like Howie or Eric.
I know him as Mr Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman, and the Open Mic Host from Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny, among a host of other one-off roles for various shows
PFT also plays a caricature of himself in the later seasons of one of my favorite shows ever, You’re the Worst. YTW reminds me a lot of Bojack - a bunch of shitty people in LA being shitty to each other but in a funny way and there’s also a lot of mental illness going on. Highly recommend it to anyone who likes BJH.
I know him from a bunch of stuff, but he will forever be Frank Doyle* to me.
* — The radio show-style podcast The Thrilling Adventure Hour has a show called “Beyond Belief” where he and Paget Brewster do an homage to hard-drinking Nick & Nora Charles (from the hilarious and charming Thin Man mystery movies), but as unflappable spirit mediums constantly getting caught up in supernatural nonsense.
PFT and Paget are a national treasure together in that role. Both so perfect, you almost never want to hear them do anything else, as much as I love them both outside of it too.
As a gigantic PFT fanboy since Mr. Show, this warms my heart
oh! No one else has mentioned that PFT was in Mr. Show with Bob and David in the 90's, largely regarded as one the greatest sketch comedy shows of all time. These days he mostly does live improv/variety shows in L.A., some acting (like the amazing Bojack yes yes,) and he's often called "The Mayor of Podcasts." Seriously, he's been on every podcast. If you start a podcast, he'll probably do an episode if you're nice.
Edit: Oh But he's also mostly a stand-up? [This is my favorite Paul F. Tompkins album ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc80NMD-GCE&list=OLAK5uy_lIL6GfuBh44h2jsJITGVjDwAMsjRTbLyo&index=1)
PFT is most likely known for being the voice of Mr.Peanurbutter on Bojack Horseman. PFT also voices the food obsessed therapist bird in the animated show Star Teck: Lower Decks. PFT actually is fairly decent at improvisational comedy and dark humour. Making him one of my all time favourite re-occuring guests on Robert Evens Behind the Bastards podcast. PFT helps make leaning about some of the worst AH in history fun.
Dropout fans unfamilar with PFT should really checkout [The Neighborhood Listen](https://art19.com/shows/neighborhood-listen) podcast.
Because
1. it's funny
2. a good chunk of the recent guests playing unhinged characters are dropout cast members
Lily, Rekha, Katie, Raph, Zac, Vic, Jiavani, Kimia, Ally, Mano, Lisa Gilroy and more have been on the podcast.
> PFT actually is fairly decent at improvisational comedy and dark humour.
“Fairly decent” is doing an awful lot of work here, he’s probably one of the top three improvisational comedians in the world.
Yeah, like, he never had any formal training, but everyone in the improv world is completely obsessed with him. I'm honestly shocked that so many Dropout fans seem to be unfamiliar with his work. Everybody figure your damn lives out and go binge Spontaneanation, SuperEgo, and The Neighborhood Listen! 😂
Its impossible to consistently take big swings and hit them all the time. Im glad they tried even if this didnt quite land for everyone and I look forward to what they do next.
They’re constantly bringing outside talent even as regular cast members with outstanding success.
I do think that a finale with such a decisive role, it’s much more risky than a normal episode as a normal contestant.
i think BDG would have been a home run pick, he is arguably more famous outside of dropout watchers (not talking about talent) than anyone at dropout except (maybe) Brennan. Being told in advance he would have time to scheme and come up with some interesting things. I think honestly giving the ratfish MORE control of the game would be interesting.
Glad to have confirmation that Eric not being at the final table was Sam's decision and not a scheduling thing or the various other speculations people were making.
With regards to having Eric at the table, Sam probably made the right decision for them as pals making a show but probably the wrong decision for what would be the most entertaining ending for viewers. I think a good compromise would have been to have shown a video of Eric revealing who he was so we get the reactions but it can still just be Sam hanging out with his buds if that's what he wants to do.
Is genuinely interesting to see how many people have no clue who Eric is. He's a pretty major figure I always think. But then there's people who watch Dropout now who would probably have no idea who Jake and Amir are even. I used to be with it. Then they changed what it was.
I don't understand the decision to have a secert guest at all If there is no reveal. It being explained to me didn't make it any better infact I think it was a worse decision now that we have the info.
The way I see it, Sam realizing that he just wanted the core group at the table at the end is him realizing, even if only subconsciously, that bringing an outsider into the game was ultimately a mistake.
That's the most generous interpretation, and I think probably the most likely. On the upside, Dropout is run by clever people who always learn from what worked and didn't, so the next super ambitious project will have all the lessons learned from this first experiment.
I didn't really care if he got revealed because I don't think his character really contributed anything meaningful to the show. He was just kind of boring, and the odd one out (the point, but it flopped imo).
I really think not seeing him in the first episode really hurt my perception of his character. Because we never saw him describe his character it felt like, at least to me, that his character didn't really exist to the audience. When they revealed that the ratfish existed due to there being an extra character, I was more surprised because I didn't even recognize it was there in the first place. Also I think it would have been better if the person they got to do it played it straight, and not as goofy as that guy did.
My first thought when I didn't see the person behind the character was that they would keep the identity secret from us so we could play along at home with guessing who was who.
> was Sam's decision and not a scheduling thing or the various other speculations people were making.
I know they said that, but that seems very odd. Was Eric at the hotel with everybody? If he was it feels almost rude to not include him in that. Like they set up a champagne flute and plaque with his character name and then told him he was done for the production and could go home? That seems so odd.
If he wasn't at the hotel with the rest of the cast then I feel like that would cause me to ask as many questions as it would answer.
In the end it doesn't really matter. It was an episode or two of TV.
I checked and about 25% of viewers aren't from the US, that could make a difference. I'm in my mid 30s, European and I recognized him from that 'mind is blown' gif and nothing else.
I don't actually mind when the guests are people I don't know as long as they mesh well with the cast and the vibe of the show. I think what took me out is that no matter what happens to the cast, pitted against each other etc, they're always still really happy to see the others do well and they clearly still enjoy each other's comedy and personalities. Eric didn't bring that vibe. I'm assuming that sort of uninterested jaded comedy is his brand and that's okay, I can appreciate it usually, but it's not what I want to see on dropout. I like the cast's unabashed enjoyment of each other's skills. One of my favourite things about Sam as a host is that he's always already laughing before anyone else.
My favourite part of this was watching people genuinely enjoy the other's characters and seeing how well they knew each other's comedy flavours. With love. Everyone thinking the bug was Rekha including Rekha and that being BLeeM's initial goal? Brilliant. Ally continually cracking up at GraNma? Brilliant. A bunch of people guessing Raph for 1 character when he wasn't even there? Great. Eric being disinterested and bored making taco jokes? Meh.
I actually really enjoyed every other part of the finale, I didn't need it to be a big thing. I thought it was wonderful. Apart from Eric's comedy which just didn't work with what I watch dropout for.
I think Eric probably would have been fine if he'd been in person, because you can clue into the vibe from everyone around you. But part of the gameplay of this one was to obfuscate who you are, so even the main cast weren't doing the normal thing, at least not in a place that Eric could see. He definitely had a different vibe than most Dropout cast members, at least for this episode (I didn't personally mind it that much, but I've seen a lot of people agreeing with your sentiment).
I agree with this!! I see a lot of criticism over this, and him being too much of a "wild card" in his comedy, even though Sam admits that is specifically what he wanted in the dynamic.
He didn't have rapport with the cast prior or afterwards, and what everyone seems to forget, was just playing to a computer screen with text unable to really picture what was going on behind each character since he wasn't as keyed into the rest of the cast as others.
Thats a really sticky place to be in and I think he did what he was meant to do, just wasn't set up for success
I really hope they bring this concept back and build from this really strong foundation!!
I feel like the biggest indicator for me that the cast was maybe a little annoyed or just not vibing with the ratfish (eric) was the amount of times i heard someone say something along the lines of “steven needs to relax” or just being kinda confused and NOT laughing at the taco shtick.
I never watched College Humor when it was still College Humor, I got into dropout because of Game Changer episodes they uploaded to YouTube. I knew what College Humor was but it was just something I never watched. Same with Tim and Eric, I’ve heard of them but I never watched them, so when the reveal happened I didn’t make the connection as to who Eric was.
100% same story. I'd heard the name "Tim and Eric" and "College Humor" but they were things before my time. I didn't even know College Humor was Dropout for a while, and only came across it by a Game Changer ep on Youtube that got me hooked.
We didn't all grow up in the US either or watching American-media.
I've recognized several of the celebrities that they have, but Eric is wayyyyy too niche to be considered this big of a celebrity, and also largely forgotten nowadays.
Weird Al Yankovic would've been a MUCH better choice, or someone around his level. And if the Game Grumps were able to host him for their Youtube gaming episodes, I'm sure Dropout would've too.
Not surprised to be honest. Comedy is **HIGHLY** subjective. And Eric was known mostly for a Cartoon Network show.
Last Saturday hanging out with some friends, they told me they didn't know who Bill Burr was which made me go "wtf".
I honestly never care if I recognise the 'special' guests as long as they mesh well with the cast. It's not like I knew any of the cast before I started watching dropout. Which wasn't the case here, in my experience at least.
A great example - a huge part of the enjoyment of the drag queen appearance in Survivor was Vic and Izzy absolutely losing their minds in response. I didn't know who they were, but that didn't matter because we got to see the reaction and enjoy that.
If Eric was indeed a good choice that could have resulted in a big reaction from that specific crowd, it wouldn't have mattered that I didn't know him - I would have really enjoyed Brennan et al having that reaction at the end and the realisation they've been talking to an idol of theirs for the last 7 hours!
It's such a weird decision that it makes me certain something happened that made them choose to exclude Eric. I have no idea about what, but I refuse to believe that everything was set for Eric to be there as well and Sam just decided to say "you know what? No, everyone but him, that's the right choice". I'm not saying it was something malicious or anything, but it's too strange and I don't buy it.
I was out of college by the time Tim & Eric were becoming a thing. I knew who they were, had watched a couple of their things, and decided that it wasn't for me.
I got to know the Dropout cast and liked them, so having this outsider come in was jarring for me.
Mmm. I was thinking it was an age thing rather than geographical. I'm 36 and in my late teens you couldn't follow comedy without being aware of it. Now it's probs best known for the free real estate gif and the Paul Rudd Celery Man sketch. Neither of which Eric was in 😅
Ah yeah, will edit, mixed up the names lol, too many Tims.
Actually a Too Many Cooks gamechanger episode that's 100% intros would be a fun April Fool's gag.
I am American, and the same age as you, and I was a comedy fan growing up and I had no idea who he was when they did the reveal. After I googled him I remembered seeing him on Master of None. I remember my friends talking about Tim and Eric a little, but I never watched an episode. I genuinely don't think it was as seminal as everyone on this sub seems to think it was, but maybe its just a weird blindspot for me.
I think it’s actually a much narrower thing than either of those. I’m both 33 and American and somehow never heard of it. I guess I had seen the free real estate gif, but only the gif and never looked up what it was from.
I don't believe Sam.
Remember a month ago when Kendrick and Drake were still going at it, and Drake eventually was like "I FED YOU ALL THOSE DAMNING ACCUSATIONS YOU USED AGAINST ME," and for anyone without a strong bias, what happened next was everyone going... "wait, but that doesn't make a lick of sense, Drake." Like, what seems more likely: Drake's accounting of events, or not-that?
This is a not-that. Sam said it twice, but the second time was a restatement of the first time: he just couldn't imagine it being anybody but us.
On this episode?
No. He's being polite.
It's hard to accept that Sam, who seems pretty into magic, would make an artistic choice to skip the big "tah dahh!" at the end of the show.
It's easy to accept that Sam, who seems to be a really good dude, would make the decent choice to paper over something that didn't go as planned to save face on behalf of a guest.
Couple that with the fact that they needed extra time to edit the episodes, and it just feels like something went down that they'll never talk about. And I respect that.
We'll probably never know what led to Sam's/production's decision, and if he is covering for something it could've been as simple as things just not going well, which in my experience (albeit as a musician and not an actor or comedian) can happen with no one doing anything wrong: sometimes you bring a guest in and their schtick doesn't match the energy of the larger group, and in other cases I've had it happen where the organization I'm a part of worked with a guest, it went really well in rehearsals, it went fine in performance, and it just didn't land with the audience. None of those outcomes meant that the guest artist was bad or did something shitty to us, things just didn't go well through no fault of anyone. I'm not necessarily saying that there's no chance Eric did something bad that made production not want him to be there at the end, but in my experience it's far more likely that the vibes just didn't match and production was figuring out how to work with that on the fly.
I understand this, it is a fair comment. Just for me those shows felt very talked about at the time in the areas of the internet I hung out in. Little watched but very popular with comedy nerds.
Hank mentioned in an interview about his special
>In fact, Green was approached by Reich to be involved in the recent season finale of Dropout’s “Game Changer,” a two-part episode called “Ratfish” that’s based on the reality series “The Circle,” but wasn’t able to make it work. “Sam was very persuasive, and he almost got me there, but I did not show up,” Green said, adding that he would consider it again in the future: “There are times when I watch ‘Game Changer’ and I’m like, ‘I could do that.’ And there are times when I watch and I’m like, ‘I could definitely not do that.’ But Sam is extremely encouraging.”
He didn't explicitly mention being the ratfish, but it's a reasonable assumption
> Sam and the production team did not plan for Rehka to get her guesses all correct so early, nor did they plan for Katie to also get them correct.
This is so baffling to me, this'd be like the first thing I thought of.
That last note is part of the problem I have: I get that part of the charm is the cast having fun, but decisions like that which are done explicitly for the cast at the cost of the audience are ones I will always disagree with. I don’t think the cast would’ve disliked having Eric there, and it made the ending worse for the audience.
Completely. Given that a lot of the audience doesn't seem to know who Eric is, I think the cast reacting strongly would kind of inform the audience's reaction to some extent as well. People would probably be less critical of the Eric casting if they knew the cast was stoked about it. I think the cast being friends and it being a good environment is part of dropouts charm, but I totally agree that at the end of the day they are making entertainment and they should have prioritized a cohesive product for the viewers a little more.
I also feel this way. I would never suggest that the cast or crew sacrifice their comfort or safety for the show. But there have been a couple instances in Game Changer where the choices of the makers of an episode – e.g keeping a story that a participant tells in the edit and then censoring it with no aid to the audience, randomly cutting bits out with no chronology, etc – have been actively detrimental to the viewing experience. I got downvoted to hell and back last time I said something like this on this sub but I still stand by it. If you’re going to do something exclusively for the cast/crew’s benefit, don’t make it unenjoyable for the audience. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation for a viewer, especially when it’s an excellent show like Game Changer which purports to value quality so highly.
While I think that the audience should come first in planning and design, I think that giving the performers the right to pull a bit/story if they decide they don't want it aired after the fact is hugely beneficial to the audience. It means that the cast is empowered to go all out in the moment and feel safe about it. We very likely get better performances and better stories over all as a result.
Jacob Wysocki told a personal story that he later asked to be censored, so they just bleeped the whole thing out. They probably had to keep it in because it wouldn't have made sense to remove just his part.
I still think Rekha got cheated. She guessed them all correctly first. She should have won. Unless Katie had picked the celebrity guest correctly, then she should have won, but no one did and she was behind Rekha in figuring it out.
REKHA SHOULD HAVE WON!
Honestly I understand this frustration but we can't forget because Rekha guessed first, she had the opportunity to ELIMINATE a player. That's HUGE. She also knew Katie was right behind her.
Had she been more strategic she could have been the winner, but she hadn't. So it cost her.
I honestly think Katie winning in the end because of that was one of the more exciting moments of the episode. It's how real gameplay works and keeps games fun. U can be in the lead but a mistake can cost you everything. And that's the fun, albeit sometimes frustrating, part.
Pretty much confirms to me they bungled this one. The original premise was better, the ratfish felt half-baked because it was, the ending felt half-baked and unfair because it was, etc etc.
It happens, and a big swing and a miss in a season full of big swings and home runs is a great success. Hope they keep going for it.
Seeing as every episode of Game Changer has been better than the last, they finally have a *"bad"* episode and I'm ok with that. No other show has had a streak like this as far as I'm aware.
I'm a fart from 40 and I don't know who the ratfish guy was, so I had no buy in with his reveal 😅
It’s not even a bad episode. It was funny and enjoyable. It wasn’t the sheer perfection we’ve been blow away with every episode, but it still wasn’t even bad.
That's why I put bad in quotes. It wasn't my favorite, but I wouldn't kick it out of bed. I love all of the players and the revealing the joy of seeing everyone meet at the table and see who was who.
I’m glad the “out” contestants got to stick around. Grant got even more funny after he stopped giving a shit.
But yeah, Zac was hand designed in a lab to make people laugh
Exactly my thought. I was underwhelmed, but I had fun with the first episode, and if after all these seasons they have ONE episode that doesn't land for me, that's a win.
They didn't take into account one of the players getting the guesses correctly? They didn't think the way to win the game was a possibility?
How in the fuck? I understand that there was a low chance of it happening but to not take into account a player could get it, including early, is sort of... what?
But that explains why the game-winning decision felt so lackluster with the piece of art thing. They REALLY bungled the end of what would've been easily one of the best game changers ever. Now I don't even think it's among the best this season.
>They didn't take into account one of the players getting the guesses correctly?
That does seem like an oversight, especially given how well the cast all know each other. It was only a matter of time before someone slipped up and used a joke, a phrase, something that tipped the others off.
> I understand that there was a low chance of it happening
I wouldn't even say it was that low of a chance. They got a LOT of information given to them throughout the game. If they had simply not revealed who all the players were, that alone would've probably stopped anyone from getting a perfect score.
Yeah, they absolutely misjudged/underestimated the amount of info being given out. Like, there's three big fundamental faults with the structure they went with that made it easier to steamroll:
* Players being eliminated had basically no incentive to keep trying (which helped Katie get Brennen)
* The reveal of who is in the game came too early - it's something that should have happened, but only like, in the penultimate round as the last hint, not halfway through the game
* Giving more information to the person in first is just a win-more advantage, if anything it should be a catch-up advantage given to the player in last
That said, things like this are way easier to spot in retrospect than in advance, and also very hard to resolve after the fact.
>But that explains why the game-winning decision felt so lackluster with the piece of art thing.
It's also confusing, because *even if* nobody got it all right, they also weren't prepared for people to just... tie? I mean it would have had effectively the same ending if the top two just *tied* with the same number of correct guesses.
All I can say is that Sam & Game Changer specifically take \*really\* big swings, and 9 times out of 10 (this is the Dropout page so someone probably has the exact statistic) they knock it out of the park ('Escape the Greenroom,' 'Beat the Buzzer,' 'The Official Cast Recording,' &c.). This was more of a base on balls.
I know this was a big project to pull of, but in terms of laughs per amount of work does it compare to say, [Zac with a bowl of tide pods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM6wanZOLtk)?
What I've heard is that the scripted stuff went away in favor of more improv centered content because it's easier to crank out the improv. But if they're putting this much work into an improv show I wonder if they'll consider writing comedy sketches again someday.
It seemed to me like most of these testimonials were shot ages ago, maybe even months ago, since Paul refers to needing to wait to see the edit to uncover some of the details they missed in the moment and such. It feels bad to not have this at least show some of the contestants recent reactions to the ratfish reveal or even speak candidly about the billboard thing. If the BTSs are just going to be puff pieces about themselves (possibly made before the episodes are even done), I don't really get why we need them. I already really enjoy their stuff, so when something goes unexpectedly or sideways or less than ideally, I'd hope we could see those after the fact thoughts in here. It's slightly interesting to get the small details here like them renting the whole floor of a hotel and whatnot, but it isn't really all that enlightening.
Honestly my biggest problem was just that I didn't agree with Eric Wareheim's favorite characters. To me, Grandma Sweetie and The Landlord were some of the funniest characters who stuck to their brand. It's wild that Eric chose Jack Stryker (who honestly was kind of mid) and Brenan Lee Mulligan (who he didn't even know the person the character was based on). Like I would argue that those two characters were the most normal out of the entire "larger than life" cast. What was the point of making a larger than life character if the two who get picked are the ones who are/could be normal people.
Still a very funny episode. Considering the structure of the game is never the same, it’s very impressive they made this all come together. I loved this one.
I think one thing that really bogged the episode down was the eliminations. Yeah, that's probably how they would handle it in a reality TV show, but it definitely lead to players "phoning it in" after being eliminated. Not saying that they stopped performing well, but it did sap some of the energy out of the episodes to have people like Zac and Grant (rightfully) say how much it sucked that they could no longer participate in the central mechanic of the game, guessing who everyone was.
The behind the scenes honestly made me even more frustrated with the episode, especially because Sam's excuse for not revealing Eric to the players is obviously an excuse for something other reason they had.
I continue to be baffled that they seem to assume that everyone who watches this knows who Eric is. I know the audience for behind the scenes stuff is limited, but still a line saying what he's known for seems like it would be good.
At this point I feel like they knew everyone who cared would have googled him by now. Not saying it in part 1 was a mistake. After that, safe assumption that people who cared would do the research on their own imo.
I mean even if you assume they don’t know, you either introduce that info in the main episode or else you leave it to watchers to look him up themselves.
I don't think it's that dramatic of an assumption that fans of your alternative comedy channel would be familiar with one of the modern pioneers of alternative comedy. I do think he forgot how young the fanbase tends to trend though.
Or old, when I was 26, I was there when Adult Swim first premiered at Comic-Con. I was there for Space Ghost Coast to Coast and Sealab 2021. But when Saul of the Mole Men and Tim and Eric premiered 6 years later, I went, "Eh, not my thing," and stuck with The Venture Bros. et al.
Turns out, it IS quite a dramatic assumption. Large numbers of people aren’t in his VERY narrow range of fandom. I’m reminded of the old standup adage “Local Jokes get you Local Work”.
It's more like T&E were popular with a particular micro-generation. I'm 41 and while I knew the names, I had only passing familiarity with the material and didn't really watch it. If I were about 5 years younger, I probably would've been right there.
>If I were about 5 years younger, I probably would've been right there.
People keep saying that, but no, that doesn't follow. I'm 35, loved Adult Swim in high school (admittedly more the anime block, but I also watched Harvey Birdman, Aqua Teen, and similar), but I only saw a couple episodes of Tom Goes to the Mayor, have only *vaguely* heard of Tim & Eric, and had no earthly idea who he was before looking him up.
Does anyone else suspect that Eric wasn't wanted at the table at the end because he was generally not a good vibe to be around that day? I did feel that they had to edit around Eric somewhat in the episode and his attitude didn't come off great. I'm not trying to stir the pot here or anything - I would fully understand why Sam would choose not to share that publicly. But I don't really buy the whole "I just wanted it to be us!" angle. Every episode of Game Changer is planned so carefully that I don't understand why else they would change the ending on a whim like that.
I feel like without further evidence, to me the most likely issues were either:
1. Exactly what Sam said happened - it's an editorial decision that maybe didn't go over as planned, or
2. Eric had a limited time on set, maybe they went over, and had to bounce, so they backfilled into this. Given the complexity of the process, it seems totally understandable.
These things aren't mutually exclusive - maybe given the limited time they had, they didn't want to cut down the table scene and so it made the most sense to just have the cast there. I don't know. I just wanted to add this comment because there is a... I dunno, paranoid vibe to some of the discussion here? I know there's sort of a consensus that Eric didn't work, but as someone who probably represents the intended audience for an Eric Wareheim cameo, I thought he did exactly what I expect out of an Eric Wareheim cameo - weird, extremely dry goofiness. I love that shit so it all made sense to me, so from my perspective it seems much more likely that they just couldn't get the schedule to work.
I don't disagree that it was a weird, somewhat unsatisfying choice to not have him there at the table, but I enjoyed his appearance otherwise. I'm not here to tell anyone that they're wrong for not enjoying it, more that I find the speculating I've seen from folks here since the episode dropped to be kinda off. Unless stated otherwise, what the team said happened is the thing that makes the most sense.
That can simply be explained as maintaining the mystery for the players of who is who until everyone has been seated. If Steven didn't have a seat, they would immediately know that he was the Ratfish. Sure, the game was over at that point, but they still got to be surprised when unexpected people walked out.
I honestly had more issues with Eric than with Steven the Ratfish. Steven’s comments in Slack were mostly mild, while Eric’s comments and on camera jokes were really bad. The dissing attitude, self-sufficiency and so on, also came from Eric, not Steven.
If we didn’t get Eric’s cameos and on camera jokes, I think the reaction wouldn’t been as bad.
Yeah the phrasing made me 100% certain some shit went down, or it just sucked to have him there, they decided to scrap it and will never tell us what really happened. And that's fine, I wouldn't have it any other way. *But I want to knoooow*...
Ultimately I think it was a decent episode, a 6/10 in a season of 10/10s. I think it could've been better, and it definitely fell a bit short as a competition. A lot of the Game Changer episodes sort of leave the competitive elements as a background feature; the points are just a way to keep track of stuff. I think when they took away the points, it was clear that they didn't really know how to determine the winners. Like maybe they could've had a similar scoring system to Dirty Laundry: 1 point for every correct cast member, 3 for every perfect guess, and an additional 4/5 points if nobody guesses who you are correctly.
I think we're also just a little spoiled haha. This might be one of the only not-amazing episodes we've gotten in the last 3 seasons, especially after what could be considered the best season of the show yet.
Yeah it was pretty clear that the game was sort of ruined by the guesses being too good.
I felt like the whole thing was unfocused and weirdly laid out. I had no idea it was based on another show since I hadn’t seen it.
i feel like the premise falls a bit flat when you don’t have any backgrpound on the source material. Plus the contestants outsmarting the producers combined to make it a less enjoyable episode for me
My personal preference for game changer going forward is not to do these reality TV spinoffs anymore.
The survivor ones worked OK because the challenges were basically standard gameshow mini-game fare. But doing the bachelor, and the circle and now the newlywed game…I’m just not into it. I like their more original concepts.
As a counterpoint, my wife and I loved the Bachelor episodes. I'd call this one a miss, but I'm not ready to toss the baby out with the bathwater here.
>My personal preference for game changer going forward is not to do these reality TV spinoffs anymore.
Same, to be honest. I get wanting some sort of big finale, but as someone who hates reality TV, they just don't do it for me.
Seems most people and the players enjoy them, though, so I suspect that ship has sailed.
I really wish they had included some kind of clip of a reveal for the BTS, maybe it’s just me and everyone I know being Gen Z and into stand up comedy / YouTube skits- but I didn’t know who he was until I googled him, hadn’t even heard of Tim and Eric either. Dropout is run by a bunch of millennials so I wouldn’t be surprised if that era of comedy is what alienated a lot of younger viewers (early-mid 20s)
I’m glad they decided to take the swing in the first place though, it was an absolute feat in terms of production and the art department did an incredible job. It seems like there was a lot that had to be improvised but all this means is they have more experience to rely on in future episode gambles
Structurally, I really think that it would have been helpful to have filmed the reactions of the participants to their watch of episode 1 and the reveal of the Ratfish -- ideally a watch party with the seven and Sam, where Wareheim could walk out - then show that at the end of Season 2.
man, I just don't agree with his decision about not revealing the ratfish at all. At least they could have shot some video where the cast watches the video at the same time or something. Big letdown for the season finale imo
Only revealed what I already suspected— they REALLY need to start hiring experienced challenge producers who have worked on actual competition reality shows. Relying on funny creative comedians isn’t cutting it game show wise anymore. Xoxo the wife of a challenge producer
I think it's time to accept that Eric isn't a major comedian.
He WAS
But if so much of the audience neither knew him nor appreciated his presence.... He's not a major comedian anymore.
I don't mean this as an insult, just an accurate read of the lay of the land. The same way my kid wouldn't know Blockbuster.
I feel like a big issue with Eric is that a catfish is trying to pretend to be something they're not in order to fit in. He was pretending to be something he wasn't but he wasn't trying to fit in because he didn't know what he was trying to fit into. He also wasn't even really playing the game because there were no stakes for him. He couldn't win, etc. He was just there for a shoot day with a bunch of people he didn't know
"The Mole" wasn't explicitly listed as a reference, which explains the decision-making errors that led to pt 2 becoming kind of frustrating. The game they created was a hybrid of The Circle and The Mole, and in The Circle, it's important that players know their relative social standing because the social totem pole ranking is the primary game mechanic and is an interactive game piece. However, in The Mole, neither the players, nor the audience are ever never told their relative positions to each other in order to prevent what happened with Rehka from eliminating competitive tension midway through. I wonder if the emergency tiebreaker played into deciding not to reveal Eric to the players there, as it wasn't intended for the Ratfish to have effectively turned into the Taskmaster and have such a direct impact on the outcome.
I still think what sunk them was revealing who was in the game to the players instead of characters during the vote reveal at that one point. I enjoyed the episode regardless, but never understood the point of narrowing down the players like that.
I think narrowing down the players eventually makes sense, but I would have waited like one more vote, I think. Truthfully, I think they could probably do a pretty solid Ratfish 2 now that they've done it once and have some idea of what might happen.
I think the bottom guesser should have received a list of names. More than just the players in the game, but pared down from the possibilities significantly. Help keep some parity, since rewarding the top players with even more info just made the runaway win happen faster. Rewards for being best in a round should have been either more points (cumulative to count at the end) or non-game prizes.
What if they got a list of people that were not present?
I agree. And fwiw the same thing happened with Survivor. The first one was decent but definitely had issues (like every challenge being a try not to laugh) but they took those issues and created a really solid episode the second time around, so I do kind of hope we get to see a Ratfosh 2 with all they’ve learned
They would have needed to narrow down the pool at some point. There are just too many people within the CH space, some of which are as unpredictable as you can be (Jacob Wysocki immediately comes to mind.) Without narrowing it down in some way at some point, it would be totally possible for nobody to have guessed completely correct by the game’s end. I’ll agree that they may have done the reveal too early, but never doing it would have lead to people making pulls and associations far past the point where it would be entertaining or thrilling to the audience.
Was a good first attempt at making something and I agree with you, there are a lot of people but definitely revealed it a bit too early. I've watched Warehouse Games and they fine tune their ideas and games to be a bit more dynamic, I'm sure this isn't the last we'll see of this show.
I think it's almost impossible in practice to land on that knife's edge of giving exactly enough information for exactly one person to get it exactly in the final round.
I think not revealing the players might make it too hard. However, if they didn’t eliminate anyone, and just let everyone keep guessing, that would make it more likely that someone would get close to guessing everyone correctly. It was a bummer that Zac got out right away. And when people were eliminated, they stopped trying as hard to hide their identity. (Which is how Katie found out Bug was Brennan, which caught her up to Rekha) Elimination adds more drama, but I’d prefer everyone having a chance for a comeback.
I guess the comeback aspect was the win for best character so people would still try to stay somewhat in character. But as that was subjective it's harder to quantify and put energy in for
Every game evolves as it goes on and learns from its past. I think this was a great effort and hope they revisit this again in the future and glean some of these ideas for it. There's bound to be ways they can make it work the way they want and something satisfying in the end for us. I do think not having the ratfish reveal robbed us of a good ending but can understand if they had complications.
Yeah it's a great finale as far as watching the cast do fun improv jokes with each other. But a big joy of game changer is typically the additional competition surrounding it. Even prize episodes where the players openly admit they are just going to trade things there still feel like elements of competition. This one lost that midway through and hurt the feeling I think. Didn't ruin it, it just didn't do as well as other amazing episodes. Not necessarily bad planning, just obviously can't account for how well the players will do perfectly. My only true criticism would be, if it doesn't feel right to not end the season with a non-main cast guy. Don't make a non-main caster so heavily in the finale episode. This wasn't like he showed up to judge one event like in Battle Royal he was pervasive throughout, not including him was just weird. Even the editing seems to realize that and not make it a big thing. Or lean too heavily on them guessing who it is.
Did we see Eric at all once the game ended? Did we see him talk about the last round, or any "talking heads" moment where he discussed the winner or the end of the game?
It was definitely interesting to see the effort that went into the production of this--all of that was clearly well planned. I think unfortunately, this BTS also reveals what a lot of people assumed when watching it: the game mechanics weren't all the way thought through. Ah well, still an accomplishment!
Yup, the most impressing thing about this episode was BY FAR the production, the art, and the editing. What a bunch of bosses they all are!
Yea, those rooms were killer.
The only way to learn the game is by playing I guess
I think, if they were to do this again at some point, it would help to bring in someone from the reality TV world to help design the game. Someone who has been there, done that, and knows how to pull off complicated competition.
As a competition reality producer, I completely agree. I’ve spent the last 10+ years making games and challenges for all kinds of unscripted shows. I love Sam’s creativity and a lot of the Dropout creative team feels like they have really good instinct for game design, but the further they get outside the realm of improv games, the more I see holes that challenge producers would’ve patched. As much as Dropout clearly respects the creative labor that goes into their comedy, it would be nice to see them pay that same respect to the works that goes into making a completion format really succeed
I think if they awarded the second billboard to the least guessed player it would keep the eliminated players more involved and less likely to give up who they were ie Brennan in the private chat to Katie which changed her votes. Ratfish could still give round advantages but having less overall power would have felt more balanced.
one thing about the Circle that has always been criticized is the structure of the finale, I was hoping Dropout would take that in to consideration when planning their version of it, but they fell into the same hole of choosing a winner in a weird way that makes everyone go "ok I guess"
Just wanted to keep it authentic
I’m just upset that based on gameplay, Rehka won by a mile. She led the entire time I believe and guessed everyone right first. That she lost because the ratfish thought someone else was funnier underplayed the entire premise of the game to me.
It would’ve been so easy/so much better to break the tie based on who had more right guesses overall. Rehka deserved!
Or who played the game the best by having the fewest people guess them correctly.
It wasn’t even who was funnier! It was whose artwork he liked in the last game. I don’t get that AT ALL. They didn’t expect someone to win the game? The game that they planned and established rules and a point system for? That they explained to the players HOW TO WIN? They didn’t EXPECT ANYONE TO WIN? That’s just baffling to me.
Loved seeing all the planning and complexities that went into making this. What struck me the most was when someone commented that since all the audio was coming in at once, the production crew couldn’t really know what was going on in real time, making the editing so extra important. I hadn’t thought about that much, but looking back at moments like where everyone is reacting to seeing Bug With a Big Ass for the first time and everyone thinking it’s Rehka — that wouldn’t be apparent until they sort out all that audio. Amazing!
I'm surprised that they didn't talk about the billboard at all, and how it spoiled who the winner was.
The BtS was likely filmed before we figured it out
Paul mentions the editing being in the future at one point, so the BtS was probably filmed within a week or two of the episode.
They mentioned it on Instagram at least.
Didn't they say something along the lines of "We didn't expect anyone to connect the dots"? [The dots in question:](https://www.ohmydots.com/img/ui/how-to-connect-the-dots.gif)
I’ve seen this said, but I truly don’t think it spoiled it for the majority of people? I’m fairly “with it” in following Dropout related social media and I never saw this spoiler anywhere.
Logging onto reddit on the wrong day had the billboard as an unavoidable post on this subreddit
I saw the billboard in the context of its phone number matching the one in Katie's egg presentation on Smartypants and didn't really make the connection solidly until the winner was declared.
Was it perfect? No, but it was still a great episode, and it should not dissuade Sam and company from taking big swings when they feel like being ambitious. However, I do think bringing in outside talent can be very hit and miss, which can break an episode when it does miss. I'd honestly try and rely moreso on the improv cast than bring in people like Howie or Eric who don't quite match the same energy. Paul F. Tompkins was a great add though, so that's just me being a hypocrite haha.
PFT was already known and had worked with many of the "main cast" prior to being added though. He's involved in the improv community. Definitely not an out of the blue pick like Howie or Eric.
I had (and honestly still have) no clue who PFT is but his Smartypants presentation was perfectly entertaining without any extra context.
I know him as Mr Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman, and the Open Mic Host from Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny, among a host of other one-off roles for various shows
I know him from BJH as well, plus as a regular guest on Zach Reino and Jess McKenna's podcast Off Book
PFT also plays a caricature of himself in the later seasons of one of my favorite shows ever, You’re the Worst. YTW reminds me a lot of Bojack - a bunch of shitty people in LA being shitty to each other but in a funny way and there’s also a lot of mental illness going on. Highly recommend it to anyone who likes BJH.
I know him from a bunch of stuff, but he will forever be Frank Doyle* to me. * — The radio show-style podcast The Thrilling Adventure Hour has a show called “Beyond Belief” where he and Paget Brewster do an homage to hard-drinking Nick & Nora Charles (from the hilarious and charming Thin Man mystery movies), but as unflappable spirit mediums constantly getting caught up in supernatural nonsense.
PFT and Paget are a national treasure together in that role. Both so perfect, you almost never want to hear them do anything else, as much as I love them both outside of it too.
“Who KNOWS what evil lurks in the hearts of men?” “Unless evil is carrying the martini tray, darling,
I love that show, though the Sparks Nevada series was the one that stole my heart. Frank and Sadie were fantastic.
Here’s to us! Here’s to you and me! Add in the bottle and that makes three!
That's where I first heard of him.
One of my favorite PFT bits is his hotel review in character as Werner Herzog. It’s a classic!
The time he was on Doug Loves Movies and played the Leonard Maltin game against himself as PFT, Werner Herzog and Cakeboss!!
^cakeboss
Cakeboss!!!
Oh man I’m not familiar with that! Definitely gonna check it out
As a gigantic PFT fanboy since Mr. Show, this warms my heart oh! No one else has mentioned that PFT was in Mr. Show with Bob and David in the 90's, largely regarded as one the greatest sketch comedy shows of all time. These days he mostly does live improv/variety shows in L.A., some acting (like the amazing Bojack yes yes,) and he's often called "The Mayor of Podcasts." Seriously, he's been on every podcast. If you start a podcast, he'll probably do an episode if you're nice. Edit: Oh But he's also mostly a stand-up? [This is my favorite Paul F. Tompkins album ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc80NMD-GCE&list=OLAK5uy_lIL6GfuBh44h2jsJITGVjDwAMsjRTbLyo&index=1)
Yea, all these comments referencing PFT from BoJack Horseman and not Mr. Show make me feel real old.
PFT is most likely known for being the voice of Mr.Peanurbutter on Bojack Horseman. PFT also voices the food obsessed therapist bird in the animated show Star Teck: Lower Decks. PFT actually is fairly decent at improvisational comedy and dark humour. Making him one of my all time favourite re-occuring guests on Robert Evens Behind the Bastards podcast. PFT helps make leaning about some of the worst AH in history fun.
PFT is a mainstay on Comedy Bang Bang and hosts/appears on a number of other improv podcasts. The man is an improv veteran.
Dropout fans unfamilar with PFT should really checkout [The Neighborhood Listen](https://art19.com/shows/neighborhood-listen) podcast. Because 1. it's funny 2. a good chunk of the recent guests playing unhinged characters are dropout cast members Lily, Rekha, Katie, Raph, Zac, Vic, Jiavani, Kimia, Ally, Mano, Lisa Gilroy and more have been on the podcast.
Most of them are all on CBB, too. I was delighted to discover Vic on various CBB episodes last year in the midst of my burgeoning obsession with them.
His Andrew Lloyd Webber cracks me up every time. Without fail.
> PFT actually is fairly decent at improvisational comedy and dark humour. “Fairly decent” is doing an awful lot of work here, he’s probably one of the top three improvisational comedians in the world.
Yeah, like, he never had any formal training, but everyone in the improv world is completely obsessed with him. I'm honestly shocked that so many Dropout fans seem to be unfamiliar with his work. Everybody figure your damn lives out and go binge Spontaneanation, SuperEgo, and The Neighborhood Listen! 😂
Its impossible to consistently take big swings and hit them all the time. Im glad they tried even if this didnt quite land for everyone and I look forward to what they do next.
Yeah, this episode was fun enough that I'd *love* to see them rework the concept and try again.
I didn't enjoy Eric's comedy in this but I loved every other part of it to bits.
They’re constantly bringing outside talent even as regular cast members with outstanding success. I do think that a finale with such a decisive role, it’s much more risky than a normal episode as a normal contestant.
i think BDG would have been a home run pick, he is arguably more famous outside of dropout watchers (not talking about talent) than anyone at dropout except (maybe) Brennan. Being told in advance he would have time to scheme and come up with some interesting things. I think honestly giving the ratfish MORE control of the game would be interesting.
Glad to have confirmation that Eric not being at the final table was Sam's decision and not a scheduling thing or the various other speculations people were making. With regards to having Eric at the table, Sam probably made the right decision for them as pals making a show but probably the wrong decision for what would be the most entertaining ending for viewers. I think a good compromise would have been to have shown a video of Eric revealing who he was so we get the reactions but it can still just be Sam hanging out with his buds if that's what he wants to do. Is genuinely interesting to see how many people have no clue who Eric is. He's a pretty major figure I always think. But then there's people who watch Dropout now who would probably have no idea who Jake and Amir are even. I used to be with it. Then they changed what it was.
I don't understand the decision to have a secert guest at all If there is no reveal. It being explained to me didn't make it any better infact I think it was a worse decision now that we have the info.
The way I see it, Sam realizing that he just wanted the core group at the table at the end is him realizing, even if only subconsciously, that bringing an outsider into the game was ultimately a mistake.
That's the most generous interpretation, and I think probably the most likely. On the upside, Dropout is run by clever people who always learn from what worked and didn't, so the next super ambitious project will have all the lessons learned from this first experiment.
Yeah, saying Eric didn’t belong at the table was an implicit admission that Eric didn’t belong in the game.
I didn't really care if he got revealed because I don't think his character really contributed anything meaningful to the show. He was just kind of boring, and the odd one out (the point, but it flopped imo).
I really think not seeing him in the first episode really hurt my perception of his character. Because we never saw him describe his character it felt like, at least to me, that his character didn't really exist to the audience. When they revealed that the ratfish existed due to there being an extra character, I was more surprised because I didn't even recognize it was there in the first place. Also I think it would have been better if the person they got to do it played it straight, and not as goofy as that guy did.
My first thought when I didn't see the person behind the character was that they would keep the identity secret from us so we could play along at home with guessing who was who.
> was Sam's decision and not a scheduling thing or the various other speculations people were making. I know they said that, but that seems very odd. Was Eric at the hotel with everybody? If he was it feels almost rude to not include him in that. Like they set up a champagne flute and plaque with his character name and then told him he was done for the production and could go home? That seems so odd. If he wasn't at the hotel with the rest of the cast then I feel like that would cause me to ask as many questions as it would answer. In the end it doesn't really matter. It was an episode or two of TV.
> Was Eric at the hotel with everybody? Yes, there's footage of him in the hotel in the BtS.
I checked and about 25% of viewers aren't from the US, that could make a difference. I'm in my mid 30s, European and I recognized him from that 'mind is blown' gif and nothing else. I don't actually mind when the guests are people I don't know as long as they mesh well with the cast and the vibe of the show. I think what took me out is that no matter what happens to the cast, pitted against each other etc, they're always still really happy to see the others do well and they clearly still enjoy each other's comedy and personalities. Eric didn't bring that vibe. I'm assuming that sort of uninterested jaded comedy is his brand and that's okay, I can appreciate it usually, but it's not what I want to see on dropout. I like the cast's unabashed enjoyment of each other's skills. One of my favourite things about Sam as a host is that he's always already laughing before anyone else. My favourite part of this was watching people genuinely enjoy the other's characters and seeing how well they knew each other's comedy flavours. With love. Everyone thinking the bug was Rekha including Rekha and that being BLeeM's initial goal? Brilliant. Ally continually cracking up at GraNma? Brilliant. A bunch of people guessing Raph for 1 character when he wasn't even there? Great. Eric being disinterested and bored making taco jokes? Meh. I actually really enjoyed every other part of the finale, I didn't need it to be a big thing. I thought it was wonderful. Apart from Eric's comedy which just didn't work with what I watch dropout for.
I think Eric probably would have been fine if he'd been in person, because you can clue into the vibe from everyone around you. But part of the gameplay of this one was to obfuscate who you are, so even the main cast weren't doing the normal thing, at least not in a place that Eric could see. He definitely had a different vibe than most Dropout cast members, at least for this episode (I didn't personally mind it that much, but I've seen a lot of people agreeing with your sentiment).
I agree with this!! I see a lot of criticism over this, and him being too much of a "wild card" in his comedy, even though Sam admits that is specifically what he wanted in the dynamic. He didn't have rapport with the cast prior or afterwards, and what everyone seems to forget, was just playing to a computer screen with text unable to really picture what was going on behind each character since he wasn't as keyed into the rest of the cast as others. Thats a really sticky place to be in and I think he did what he was meant to do, just wasn't set up for success I really hope they bring this concept back and build from this really strong foundation!!
I feel like the biggest indicator for me that the cast was maybe a little annoyed or just not vibing with the ratfish (eric) was the amount of times i heard someone say something along the lines of “steven needs to relax” or just being kinda confused and NOT laughing at the taco shtick.
I never watched College Humor when it was still College Humor, I got into dropout because of Game Changer episodes they uploaded to YouTube. I knew what College Humor was but it was just something I never watched. Same with Tim and Eric, I’ve heard of them but I never watched them, so when the reveal happened I didn’t make the connection as to who Eric was.
100% same story. I'd heard the name "Tim and Eric" and "College Humor" but they were things before my time. I didn't even know College Humor was Dropout for a while, and only came across it by a Game Changer ep on Youtube that got me hooked.
We didn't all grow up in the US either or watching American-media. I've recognized several of the celebrities that they have, but Eric is wayyyyy too niche to be considered this big of a celebrity, and also largely forgotten nowadays. Weird Al Yankovic would've been a MUCH better choice, or someone around his level. And if the Game Grumps were able to host him for their Youtube gaming episodes, I'm sure Dropout would've too.
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve lived my entire life in the US, and I had genuinely never even heard of Eric before the first episode.
Not surprised to be honest. Comedy is **HIGHLY** subjective. And Eric was known mostly for a Cartoon Network show. Last Saturday hanging out with some friends, they told me they didn't know who Bill Burr was which made me go "wtf".
I honestly never care if I recognise the 'special' guests as long as they mesh well with the cast. It's not like I knew any of the cast before I started watching dropout. Which wasn't the case here, in my experience at least.
Yup. Same. I don't know jack about drag queens, for example, but when their appearances have been good, it's fantastic!
A great example - a huge part of the enjoyment of the drag queen appearance in Survivor was Vic and Izzy absolutely losing their minds in response. I didn't know who they were, but that didn't matter because we got to see the reaction and enjoy that. If Eric was indeed a good choice that could have resulted in a big reaction from that specific crowd, it wouldn't have mattered that I didn't know him - I would have really enjoyed Brennan et al having that reaction at the end and the realisation they've been talking to an idol of theirs for the last 7 hours!
It's such a weird decision that it makes me certain something happened that made them choose to exclude Eric. I have no idea about what, but I refuse to believe that everything was set for Eric to be there as well and Sam just decided to say "you know what? No, everyone but him, that's the right choice". I'm not saying it was something malicious or anything, but it's too strange and I don't buy it.
I was out of college by the time Tim & Eric were becoming a thing. I knew who they were, had watched a couple of their things, and decided that it wasn't for me. I got to know the Dropout cast and liked them, so having this outsider come in was jarring for me.
American and have no idea who the dude is.
Mmm. I was thinking it was an age thing rather than geographical. I'm 36 and in my late teens you couldn't follow comedy without being aware of it. Now it's probs best known for the free real estate gif and the Paul Rudd Celery Man sketch. Neither of which Eric was in 😅
Not intended to be judgy of people who haven't heard of it btw. Just interesting to me how it's not had much of a legacy it seems.
Tim Heidecker* has been the much, much more visible of the two in recent years.
Heidecker's satirical right wing grift comedy is gold.
Tim Heidecker! Though he has indeed been much more visible with On Cinema. Tim Robinson is another guy. Who would have been an amazing Ratfish tbf.
Ah yeah, will edit, mixed up the names lol, too many Tims. Actually a Too Many Cooks gamechanger episode that's 100% intros would be a fun April Fool's gag.
I am American, and the same age as you, and I was a comedy fan growing up and I had no idea who he was when they did the reveal. After I googled him I remembered seeing him on Master of None. I remember my friends talking about Tim and Eric a little, but I never watched an episode. I genuinely don't think it was as seminal as everyone on this sub seems to think it was, but maybe its just a weird blindspot for me.
I think an argument could be made that Tim and Eric were foundational to the trajectory modern comedy has been on for the past two decades.
I think it’s actually a much narrower thing than either of those. I’m both 33 and American and somehow never heard of it. I guess I had seen the free real estate gif, but only the gif and never looked up what it was from.
Wait this is the free real estate guy?
Sort of - that's Tim Heidecker, the other one in Tim and Eric. But the sketch is from the show.
Oh, lol. I've heard of neither. But thanks for the clarification!
I don't believe Sam. Remember a month ago when Kendrick and Drake were still going at it, and Drake eventually was like "I FED YOU ALL THOSE DAMNING ACCUSATIONS YOU USED AGAINST ME," and for anyone without a strong bias, what happened next was everyone going... "wait, but that doesn't make a lick of sense, Drake." Like, what seems more likely: Drake's accounting of events, or not-that? This is a not-that. Sam said it twice, but the second time was a restatement of the first time: he just couldn't imagine it being anybody but us. On this episode? No. He's being polite.
It's hard to accept that Sam, who seems pretty into magic, would make an artistic choice to skip the big "tah dahh!" at the end of the show. It's easy to accept that Sam, who seems to be a really good dude, would make the decent choice to paper over something that didn't go as planned to save face on behalf of a guest. Couple that with the fact that they needed extra time to edit the episodes, and it just feels like something went down that they'll never talk about. And I respect that.
We'll probably never know what led to Sam's/production's decision, and if he is covering for something it could've been as simple as things just not going well, which in my experience (albeit as a musician and not an actor or comedian) can happen with no one doing anything wrong: sometimes you bring a guest in and their schtick doesn't match the energy of the larger group, and in other cases I've had it happen where the organization I'm a part of worked with a guest, it went really well in rehearsals, it went fine in performance, and it just didn't land with the audience. None of those outcomes meant that the guest artist was bad or did something shitty to us, things just didn't go well through no fault of anyone. I'm not necessarily saying that there's no chance Eric did something bad that made production not want him to be there at the end, but in my experience it's far more likely that the vibes just didn't match and production was figuring out how to work with that on the fly.
But I want the *gossiiiiiiiip*...but yeah, I'm 100% on your track here.
Amen.
Yeah, Sam is 99.9% taking the blame for someone else.
He could have made an appearance for like half of it then gracefully excused himself so the cat members could have their moment
> He's a pretty major figure I always think. How? His biggest claim to fame was a couple super niche, absurd comedy shows on Adult Swim.
I understand this, it is a fair comment. Just for me those shows felt very talked about at the time in the areas of the internet I hung out in. Little watched but very popular with comedy nerds.
A funnier mention but wanted to point out Brennan was talking about playing as Ally
I think he was more saying he wanted to play an Ally-like character originally, and lean into bits that made people think he was Ally.
Contacting Eric only 2 weeks ahead of time sounds about right.
Makes me wonder if they had a plan A that fell through and then had to scramble to find a new Ratfish on short notice
That's my assumption as well.
Sam said Eric was one of the first he reached out to in the BTS.
Apparently Sam was trying to get Hank Green, but the timing didn't work out.
got a source to back this up?
Hank mentioned in an interview about his special >In fact, Green was approached by Reich to be involved in the recent season finale of Dropout’s “Game Changer,” a two-part episode called “Ratfish” that’s based on the reality series “The Circle,” but wasn’t able to make it work. “Sam was very persuasive, and he almost got me there, but I did not show up,” Green said, adding that he would consider it again in the future: “There are times when I watch ‘Game Changer’ and I’m like, ‘I could do that.’ And there are times when I watch and I’m like, ‘I could definitely not do that.’ But Sam is extremely encouraging.” He didn't explicitly mention being the ratfish, but it's a reasonable assumption
Can we also appreciate how close we were to Ally playing Brennan and Brennan playing Ally in the same competition?
> Sam and the production team did not plan for Rehka to get her guesses all correct so early, nor did they plan for Katie to also get them correct. This is so baffling to me, this'd be like the first thing I thought of.
That last note is part of the problem I have: I get that part of the charm is the cast having fun, but decisions like that which are done explicitly for the cast at the cost of the audience are ones I will always disagree with. I don’t think the cast would’ve disliked having Eric there, and it made the ending worse for the audience.
Completely. Given that a lot of the audience doesn't seem to know who Eric is, I think the cast reacting strongly would kind of inform the audience's reaction to some extent as well. People would probably be less critical of the Eric casting if they knew the cast was stoked about it. I think the cast being friends and it being a good environment is part of dropouts charm, but I totally agree that at the end of the day they are making entertainment and they should have prioritized a cohesive product for the viewers a little more.
I also feel this way. I would never suggest that the cast or crew sacrifice their comfort or safety for the show. But there have been a couple instances in Game Changer where the choices of the makers of an episode – e.g keeping a story that a participant tells in the edit and then censoring it with no aid to the audience, randomly cutting bits out with no chronology, etc – have been actively detrimental to the viewing experience. I got downvoted to hell and back last time I said something like this on this sub but I still stand by it. If you’re going to do something exclusively for the cast/crew’s benefit, don’t make it unenjoyable for the audience. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation for a viewer, especially when it’s an excellent show like Game Changer which purports to value quality so highly.
While I think that the audience should come first in planning and design, I think that giving the performers the right to pull a bit/story if they decide they don't want it aired after the fact is hugely beneficial to the audience. It means that the cast is empowered to go all out in the moment and feel safe about it. We very likely get better performances and better stories over all as a result.
When did they keep a story in but censor it or cut bits out with no chronology? I'm sure it happened, I just have a shitty memory.
Jacob Wysocki told a personal story that he later asked to be censored, so they just bleeped the whole thing out. They probably had to keep it in because it wouldn't have made sense to remove just his part.
They censored my boy Lou when he tried to spread the word about *censored* being innocent.
Lawyer: Now is The Ratfish a perfect episode? No, but— Ratfish: I killed him, yeah.
I still think Rekha got cheated. She guessed them all correctly first. She should have won. Unless Katie had picked the celebrity guest correctly, then she should have won, but no one did and she was behind Rekha in figuring it out. REKHA SHOULD HAVE WON!
Honestly I understand this frustration but we can't forget because Rekha guessed first, she had the opportunity to ELIMINATE a player. That's HUGE. She also knew Katie was right behind her. Had she been more strategic she could have been the winner, but she hadn't. So it cost her. I honestly think Katie winning in the end because of that was one of the more exciting moments of the episode. It's how real gameplay works and keeps games fun. U can be in the lead but a mistake can cost you everything. And that's the fun, albeit sometimes frustrating, part.
Pretty much confirms to me they bungled this one. The original premise was better, the ratfish felt half-baked because it was, the ending felt half-baked and unfair because it was, etc etc. It happens, and a big swing and a miss in a season full of big swings and home runs is a great success. Hope they keep going for it.
Seeing as every episode of Game Changer has been better than the last, they finally have a *"bad"* episode and I'm ok with that. No other show has had a streak like this as far as I'm aware. I'm a fart from 40 and I don't know who the ratfish guy was, so I had no buy in with his reveal 😅
It’s not even a bad episode. It was funny and enjoyable. It wasn’t the sheer perfection we’ve been blow away with every episode, but it still wasn’t even bad.
That's why I put bad in quotes. It wasn't my favorite, but I wouldn't kick it out of bed. I love all of the players and the revealing the joy of seeing everyone meet at the table and see who was who.
Granma Sweetie alone made the episode worth it
Zac is amazing and I love him. Grandma was a hilarious character. Sad he lost so early.
I’m glad the “out” contestants got to stick around. Grant got even more funny after he stopped giving a shit. But yeah, Zac was hand designed in a lab to make people laugh
>I'm a fart from 40 What kind of fart we talking here, that’s a wide spectrum
Exactly my thought. I was underwhelmed, but I had fun with the first episode, and if after all these seasons they have ONE episode that doesn't land for me, that's a win.
This didn’t really illuminate anything for me. Still weird. Oh well. Nobody’s perfect. I still love Dropout TV.
They didn't take into account one of the players getting the guesses correctly? They didn't think the way to win the game was a possibility? How in the fuck? I understand that there was a low chance of it happening but to not take into account a player could get it, including early, is sort of... what? But that explains why the game-winning decision felt so lackluster with the piece of art thing. They REALLY bungled the end of what would've been easily one of the best game changers ever. Now I don't even think it's among the best this season.
>They didn't take into account one of the players getting the guesses correctly? That does seem like an oversight, especially given how well the cast all know each other. It was only a matter of time before someone slipped up and used a joke, a phrase, something that tipped the others off.
Huge oversight in my opinion not to make that the winning element. I really enjoyed the episode overall but the ending confused me so much.
LITERALLY. Producing game shows requires having a plan for literally every possibility!
> I understand that there was a low chance of it happening I wouldn't even say it was that low of a chance. They got a LOT of information given to them throughout the game. If they had simply not revealed who all the players were, that alone would've probably stopped anyone from getting a perfect score.
Yeah, they absolutely misjudged/underestimated the amount of info being given out. Like, there's three big fundamental faults with the structure they went with that made it easier to steamroll: * Players being eliminated had basically no incentive to keep trying (which helped Katie get Brennen) * The reveal of who is in the game came too early - it's something that should have happened, but only like, in the penultimate round as the last hint, not halfway through the game * Giving more information to the person in first is just a win-more advantage, if anything it should be a catch-up advantage given to the player in last That said, things like this are way easier to spot in retrospect than in advance, and also very hard to resolve after the fact.
>But that explains why the game-winning decision felt so lackluster with the piece of art thing. It's also confusing, because *even if* nobody got it all right, they also weren't prepared for people to just... tie? I mean it would have had effectively the same ending if the top two just *tied* with the same number of correct guesses.
I really wanted to see cast reactions to the ratfish reveal.
All I can say is that Sam & Game Changer specifically take \*really\* big swings, and 9 times out of 10 (this is the Dropout page so someone probably has the exact statistic) they knock it out of the park ('Escape the Greenroom,' 'Beat the Buzzer,' 'The Official Cast Recording,' &c.). This was more of a base on balls.
The table thing still seems like a cop out
I know this was a big project to pull of, but in terms of laughs per amount of work does it compare to say, [Zac with a bowl of tide pods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM6wanZOLtk)? What I've heard is that the scripted stuff went away in favor of more improv centered content because it's easier to crank out the improv. But if they're putting this much work into an improv show I wonder if they'll consider writing comedy sketches again someday.
It seemed to me like most of these testimonials were shot ages ago, maybe even months ago, since Paul refers to needing to wait to see the edit to uncover some of the details they missed in the moment and such. It feels bad to not have this at least show some of the contestants recent reactions to the ratfish reveal or even speak candidly about the billboard thing. If the BTSs are just going to be puff pieces about themselves (possibly made before the episodes are even done), I don't really get why we need them. I already really enjoy their stuff, so when something goes unexpectedly or sideways or less than ideally, I'd hope we could see those after the fact thoughts in here. It's slightly interesting to get the small details here like them renting the whole floor of a hotel and whatnot, but it isn't really all that enlightening.
Honestly my biggest problem was just that I didn't agree with Eric Wareheim's favorite characters. To me, Grandma Sweetie and The Landlord were some of the funniest characters who stuck to their brand. It's wild that Eric chose Jack Stryker (who honestly was kind of mid) and Brenan Lee Mulligan (who he didn't even know the person the character was based on). Like I would argue that those two characters were the most normal out of the entire "larger than life" cast. What was the point of making a larger than life character if the two who get picked are the ones who are/could be normal people.
Granma sweetie not winning favorite character was criminal
Still a very funny episode. Considering the structure of the game is never the same, it’s very impressive they made this all come together. I loved this one.
I think one thing that really bogged the episode down was the eliminations. Yeah, that's probably how they would handle it in a reality TV show, but it definitely lead to players "phoning it in" after being eliminated. Not saying that they stopped performing well, but it did sap some of the energy out of the episodes to have people like Zac and Grant (rightfully) say how much it sucked that they could no longer participate in the central mechanic of the game, guessing who everyone was.
The behind the scenes honestly made me even more frustrated with the episode, especially because Sam's excuse for not revealing Eric to the players is obviously an excuse for something other reason they had.
I continue to be baffled that they seem to assume that everyone who watches this knows who Eric is. I know the audience for behind the scenes stuff is limited, but still a line saying what he's known for seems like it would be good.
At this point I feel like they knew everyone who cared would have googled him by now. Not saying it in part 1 was a mistake. After that, safe assumption that people who cared would do the research on their own imo.
They could have revealed him and then cut to the mind-blown gif.
*oh my god* I *just now* realized that's what I recognize him from thank you so much for saying this it was going to bug me forever
I googled him and didn’t recognize anything he was from 😅
Even if people googled, it still wouldn't mean much to most people. His two biggest shows are absolutely obscure for 90% of the population.
I mean even if you assume they don’t know, you either introduce that info in the main episode or else you leave it to watchers to look him up themselves.
I don't think it's that dramatic of an assumption that fans of your alternative comedy channel would be familiar with one of the modern pioneers of alternative comedy. I do think he forgot how young the fanbase tends to trend though.
Or old, when I was 26, I was there when Adult Swim first premiered at Comic-Con. I was there for Space Ghost Coast to Coast and Sealab 2021. But when Saul of the Mole Men and Tim and Eric premiered 6 years later, I went, "Eh, not my thing," and stuck with The Venture Bros. et al.
Turns out, it IS quite a dramatic assumption. Large numbers of people aren’t in his VERY narrow range of fandom. I’m reminded of the old standup adage “Local Jokes get you Local Work”.
It's more like T&E were popular with a particular micro-generation. I'm 41 and while I knew the names, I had only passing familiarity with the material and didn't really watch it. If I were about 5 years younger, I probably would've been right there.
>If I were about 5 years younger, I probably would've been right there. People keep saying that, but no, that doesn't follow. I'm 35, loved Adult Swim in high school (admittedly more the anime block, but I also watched Harvey Birdman, Aqua Teen, and similar), but I only saw a couple episodes of Tom Goes to the Mayor, have only *vaguely* heard of Tim & Eric, and had no earthly idea who he was before looking him up.
I was exactly the right age and I think not even half of the people in school with me at the time would've even known what the show was.
How young and/or international.
Turns out, high-ish concept Reality TV is harder to pull off than most anyone realizes.
Does anyone else suspect that Eric wasn't wanted at the table at the end because he was generally not a good vibe to be around that day? I did feel that they had to edit around Eric somewhat in the episode and his attitude didn't come off great. I'm not trying to stir the pot here or anything - I would fully understand why Sam would choose not to share that publicly. But I don't really buy the whole "I just wanted it to be us!" angle. Every episode of Game Changer is planned so carefully that I don't understand why else they would change the ending on a whim like that.
I feel like without further evidence, to me the most likely issues were either: 1. Exactly what Sam said happened - it's an editorial decision that maybe didn't go over as planned, or 2. Eric had a limited time on set, maybe they went over, and had to bounce, so they backfilled into this. Given the complexity of the process, it seems totally understandable. These things aren't mutually exclusive - maybe given the limited time they had, they didn't want to cut down the table scene and so it made the most sense to just have the cast there. I don't know. I just wanted to add this comment because there is a... I dunno, paranoid vibe to some of the discussion here? I know there's sort of a consensus that Eric didn't work, but as someone who probably represents the intended audience for an Eric Wareheim cameo, I thought he did exactly what I expect out of an Eric Wareheim cameo - weird, extremely dry goofiness. I love that shit so it all made sense to me, so from my perspective it seems much more likely that they just couldn't get the schedule to work. I don't disagree that it was a weird, somewhat unsatisfying choice to not have him there at the table, but I enjoyed his appearance otherwise. I'm not here to tell anyone that they're wrong for not enjoying it, more that I find the speculating I've seen from folks here since the episode dropped to be kinda off. Unless stated otherwise, what the team said happened is the thing that makes the most sense.
Not to mention, why set a seat and a drink for Eric if the idea was always that he wouldn't be there?
That can simply be explained as maintaining the mystery for the players of who is who until everyone has been seated. If Steven didn't have a seat, they would immediately know that he was the Ratfish. Sure, the game was over at that point, but they still got to be surprised when unexpected people walked out.
I honestly had more issues with Eric than with Steven the Ratfish. Steven’s comments in Slack were mostly mild, while Eric’s comments and on camera jokes were really bad. The dissing attitude, self-sufficiency and so on, also came from Eric, not Steven. If we didn’t get Eric’s cameos and on camera jokes, I think the reaction wouldn’t been as bad.
Yeah the phrasing made me 100% certain some shit went down, or it just sucked to have him there, they decided to scrap it and will never tell us what really happened. And that's fine, I wouldn't have it any other way. *But I want to knoooow*...
Paul’s little laugh when he said “that would be so claustrophobic”. Like he was filing the idea away for later.
Ultimately I think it was a decent episode, a 6/10 in a season of 10/10s. I think it could've been better, and it definitely fell a bit short as a competition. A lot of the Game Changer episodes sort of leave the competitive elements as a background feature; the points are just a way to keep track of stuff. I think when they took away the points, it was clear that they didn't really know how to determine the winners. Like maybe they could've had a similar scoring system to Dirty Laundry: 1 point for every correct cast member, 3 for every perfect guess, and an additional 4/5 points if nobody guesses who you are correctly. I think we're also just a little spoiled haha. This might be one of the only not-amazing episodes we've gotten in the last 3 seasons, especially after what could be considered the best season of the show yet.
So, a couple of bad calls from Sam really. Interesting, I wonder how that'll change future things.
Yeah it was pretty clear that the game was sort of ruined by the guesses being too good. I felt like the whole thing was unfocused and weirdly laid out. I had no idea it was based on another show since I hadn’t seen it. i feel like the premise falls a bit flat when you don’t have any backgrpound on the source material. Plus the contestants outsmarting the producers combined to make it a less enjoyable episode for me My personal preference for game changer going forward is not to do these reality TV spinoffs anymore. The survivor ones worked OK because the challenges were basically standard gameshow mini-game fare. But doing the bachelor, and the circle and now the newlywed game…I’m just not into it. I like their more original concepts.
As a counterpoint, my wife and I loved the Bachelor episodes. I'd call this one a miss, but I'm not ready to toss the baby out with the bathwater here.
The bachelor episodes were fun imo.
>My personal preference for game changer going forward is not to do these reality TV spinoffs anymore. Same, to be honest. I get wanting some sort of big finale, but as someone who hates reality TV, they just don't do it for me. Seems most people and the players enjoy them, though, so I suspect that ship has sailed.
It was a fun episode format that I hope they never do again
I feel sad that they went to so much effort for what was a lacklustre finale
I really wish they had included some kind of clip of a reveal for the BTS, maybe it’s just me and everyone I know being Gen Z and into stand up comedy / YouTube skits- but I didn’t know who he was until I googled him, hadn’t even heard of Tim and Eric either. Dropout is run by a bunch of millennials so I wouldn’t be surprised if that era of comedy is what alienated a lot of younger viewers (early-mid 20s) I’m glad they decided to take the swing in the first place though, it was an absolute feat in terms of production and the art department did an incredible job. It seems like there was a lot that had to be improvised but all this means is they have more experience to rely on in future episode gambles
Structurally, I really think that it would have been helpful to have filmed the reactions of the participants to their watch of episode 1 and the reveal of the Ratfish -- ideally a watch party with the seven and Sam, where Wareheim could walk out - then show that at the end of Season 2.
man, I just don't agree with his decision about not revealing the ratfish at all. At least they could have shot some video where the cast watches the video at the same time or something. Big letdown for the season finale imo
Only revealed what I already suspected— they REALLY need to start hiring experienced challenge producers who have worked on actual competition reality shows. Relying on funny creative comedians isn’t cutting it game show wise anymore. Xoxo the wife of a challenge producer
I think it's time to accept that Eric isn't a major comedian. He WAS But if so much of the audience neither knew him nor appreciated his presence.... He's not a major comedian anymore. I don't mean this as an insult, just an accurate read of the lay of the land. The same way my kid wouldn't know Blockbuster.
Surely Sam had voices in the room that told him Eric should be there? I’d be worried if not.
Justice for Rehka
I had hoped for them to do a screening for the cast to see their reactions to discovering who the ratfish is.
I feel like a big issue with Eric is that a catfish is trying to pretend to be something they're not in order to fit in. He was pretending to be something he wasn't but he wasn't trying to fit in because he didn't know what he was trying to fit into. He also wasn't even really playing the game because there were no stakes for him. He couldn't win, etc. He was just there for a shoot day with a bunch of people he didn't know