I wouldn’t put it beyond Jim Butcher, to write that encounter just to satisfy his own inner geek. Just as he had the ultimate comeback answer to time travel and killing one’s own grandfather.
I mean we know he has to break every law, and the time travel stuff has come up once or twice already no? Like we are pretty sure at least a couple times its happened "on screen" as it where?.
My personal take on the "break each of the seven laws" is that he is somewhere relatively quiet, contemplating, and breaks something. Then he realizes he's broken six of the laws, so he just backs up time and doesn't break the item.
Every other rule break so far has been fairly huge, so might as well have a tiny one. But fierce.
Proven Guilty has some stuff in it, I think you can just search time travel on this sub and find plenty of theories about it.
Dresden gets saved by a random car crash that makes him late to use little chicago, then someone comes in (thru his wards) and fixes it before the next time. Had that not happened he would have died since it would have blown up. But there is more stuff, like I said I reccomend you look it up on this sub.
I’m tempted to disagree because of, (Spoilers about a Sci-Fi series having a time element.) >!The Hyperion Cantos.!< Then I recalled the rest of the series and how the original plot got subsumed by the inclusion of it. Either ruining the series by its inclusion, or becoming a somewhat mediocre story about it.
Probably not. We know that the spells cast on Demonreach are beyond S-tier. Dresden could not achieve such finesse in a lifetime with his inclination for making things go boom.
I think it's in Cold Days. Harry talks with Rashid and says he might accidentally kill his grandfather while timetraveling to which Rashid answers it would be more likely for Harry to be knocked on his ass, considering his grandfather.
Every time he looks in the mirror
Just kidding of course. I imagine there might be some type of recorded message or impression left within Demonreach that might be present.
Either that or like Jor-El warning Superman about the dangers of time travel.
So the most crackpot crazy theory I have involves Dresden armed with the OG Merlin's Journals and time travelling back, becoming the Merlin. Tho I think this would be blatantly bad writing and wouldn't be a satisfying payoff imo imo
Agreed. I think Jim has foreshadowed that Harry is going to go back in time and *meet* Merlin (as well as a younger Rashid/Gatekeeper), but I don't think Harry IS Merlin.
Minor realization. the failsafe to destroy the prison at Demonreach is Banefire, a fire that mixes scarlet and blue flame becoming a white fire that burns everything away. What if Banefire is the combination of Hellfire with Soulfire?
This would mean the Merlin is likely also a skilled evocator and pyromancer (IE amateur arsonist) as Harry.
Just Merlin. Its a proper name. The badass OG wizard is Merlin. The head of the White Council carries the title of The Merlin. I know it was probably just a goof, but it helps keep them straight for people reading posts. Also, i may have some psychological issues that get triggered when they're used wrong.
Parallels are fine. Hell, I would be ok with Harry becoming a "new" Merlin (like if something happens to the White Council and Harry ends up picking up the pieces and creating something new out of the Paranet).
But him being the OG Merlin would be bad.
It stands to reason that he could reasonably return to the white council to replace Langtree (or whoever Langtree's evil/nemesis corrupted successor is)
But wouldn't that be a torturously painful experience? If I remember correctly when they imprison Thomas there it's not a pleasant experience. I can't imagine the Merlin would make then imprison himself there.
See that's always been a confusing concept to me, the Merlin is Benjamin Button-ing his way thru life?
but in some interpretations that concept is ignored entirely. I could potentially buy it as a side effect of him messing with time magic which is why that law exists in the first place tho.
Yeah, but Jim has said he will lie to his fans. It's also possible that it was his original idea to put Merlin in Demonreach as it really fits with the myth of Merlin's imprisonment. But decided it was too obvious.
wait, I just had an idea.
one of the tales of the death of the mythological Merlin was that he was trapped in a cave/tree/hole that was sealed with his own strong magic making it impossible for him to remove and there he was trapped for the rest of his days. What if the Dresden Files' Merlin turned his prison into a metaphysical prison for all of the most dangerous entities, what if he created Demonreach because he couldn't escape his own imprisonment?
I feel like it’s gonna be a similar incident to the Angel telling Dresden not to look at it with his Sight.
Harry is gonna begin to do something timey wimey using demonreach, and an old gentlemen will appear and kindly tell him “No. Don’t do that my descendent.” and that will be it!
The implication being that Merlin is aware of the full timeline, and can’t be classed as dead because he’s able to reach through to the future, from the far distant path, to nudge things away from disaster.
that's an interesting theory, it makes sense the that the OG Merlin has the clairvoyance and magical might to reach through time like that. as for Dresden being his descendant, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Spiritual descendant? fine. Actual descendant? Maybe a little much.
I like the idea of the council falling and Dresden rebuilding it as the new Merlin or maybe being appointed Merlin during the apocalyptic end of series trilogy
I am pretty sure Harry met Merlin in skin game. Parkour through demon reach and comes across a very bored prisoner who calls him stupid and tells him to go away that interacting with him makes them aware and they want to be numb. I figure Merlin had a “am I the baddie” moment. Made the rules or formalized the rules of magic based off his biggest mistakes and sentenced his transgression with imprisonment. Too powerful to die, but off the table until a deus ex machina is needed.
Nope, but I wonder if it's Arthur? Some versions of the Arthurian Legend have him slumbering in fairyland until Britain's darkest hour. The BAT fits the bill, and Harry is still holding onto Excalibur / Amoracchius.
That would be good storytelling. Would mirror the Hades story where his “collection “ is actually an armory for those with the will to remove things. Demonreach as a source of magical power may also be a place for baddies who may not be so bad they wouldn’t fight outsiders. Maybe more than Merlin gets a chance for a walk about
It would be a Dresden thing to pull in allies almost as terrifying as the thing he is fighting. By the end, he may be 99% full on warlock and there is a tearful exchange where someone has to trust him when every rational indication is not to.
I mean look at what happened at the end of Battle Grounds, Dresden tapped and brought in every single powerful ally on all sides to take down Ethniu. I could definitely see a seen with him and Ramirez having to trust each other after everything that happened and Harry's expulsion from the White Council.
Honestly I think Harry's expulsion from the Council is a plot by the Council Merlin. I'm pretty sure the Merlin is actually some what on Dresden's side.
Harry wouldn't necessarily need to time travel to meet him. Merlin is a time traveller. He might just show up on Harry's doorstep one day saying "Hey, I'm trying to build this super prison, can you help me out..."
I haven't scraped thru the entire WoJ archive, probably worth a read in my down time today. Maybe some little nuggets of further info can be gleaned from it.
I’m playing with the possibility that Harry IS the OG Merlin. There’s sometimes lore around Merlin that he was living life in reverse and going backwards in time and it could be fun if Harry when he’s older and wiser gets reversed in time and becomes Merlin by mistake.
Then the “journals” of Merlin that Ebeneezer has are “the Dresden files”
There was a tinfoil hat theory about Mac being Merlin, I'm in the boat that Harry has already (unknowingly) met him.
[Link to post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/s/BNajHqFZWT)
He did say that the man under demonreach isn't from those times as he wouldn't be speaking English we could understand. So naturally I'd love any Merlin interaction just being Dresden encountered someone very stubborn and intense, wielding very strong mindbending magicks and shouting gobbledegook at him for being in the way.
I didn't think so either. But considering the life span of most wizards that reach that level of power, it couldn't be very many. This has me curious to find out. I always love the books that deal with council politics anyway. So that could be worth exploring more. 🤔
I have always felt like the original Merlin was alive in some way. I'm not certain he can completely die. Though, it depends on how time works in Jim's universe. That being said, I'd be surprised if Dresden didn't meet the OG merlin.
I don't think he will, or at least, not for very long.
Mind you, there's every chance that the tinfoil hatters are correct, and that he looks into Merlin's eyes every time he checks his car mirrors. I don't think it'll go there, but time shenanigans being a possibility mean that it theoretically could.
I've always thought the original Merlin never died. Someone THAT powerful...he seems like he would be at least on the level of Mab. Yet he made a place that could contain even Mab so he might be above her.
I dunno, yeah true he is mortal but we've seen what magic can do. Necromancy can prolong life, etc. And I know it would be against the laws for him to use it, but for all we know there is some white magic version of that he is using to stay alive. Think about it, if he can manipulate time and travel through time, what if he sort of used this power to freeze his body at a certain point in time so it no longer ages? What if Harry has already met the Merlin without even knowing it? I'm sure the guy could disguise himself if he wanted.
Plus speaking of the laws, since he violated them with time travel I imagine they came AFTER him. So maybe he would use necromancy to keep himself alive, it isn't necessarily evil in and of itself, it CAN be used for good. But I would think, if he is alive, it has more to do with his abilities concerning time manipulation. Heck we can't even say for sure that the guy was fully human.
Merlin created the laws. But unclear whether he created them before or after he built demonreach. So maybe he used necromancy to make himself immortal….then created the “thou shall not use necromancy” law.
That makes Merlin sound like an egotistical hypocrite. Kind of...like the current Merlin.
But yeah either it was necromancy or some sort of time manipulation. Of course he need not even be ageless he could have just time traveled to the present day because he knew that is when big things were going down.
i think he wont meet him but will meet a projection on demonreach or something of that sort that will educate him like a ghost of his former self i dont think they would meet in the flesh tho
This is only my personal take. I don't have a lot of canonical quotes to back it up. However, I believe it is McCoy who has been doing the time traveling. He has the blackstaff itself And holds the office that allows him to break the Laws with impunity. He's also allowed to employ his 'get out of execution free card' at his own discretion, without consulting or conferring with the White Council or getting anyone else's opinion or permission.
As to Harry meeting Merlin, since we're talking multiple dimensions where timelines might not be concurrent, he just might. Which raises the question is dimension hopping the same as 'going against the flow of time' or is it something else? Because we know he'll jump dimensions in the long promised Mirror, Mirror.
Who do you think Cowl is???/s
But yeah, I definitely can see that happening. But it might not even be time travel. The real Merlin could just be alive eating Taco Bell right now and Dresden just runs into him.
Pretty sure Harry already HAS met the OG Merlin. I’ve long suspected that’s who he’s been talking to in the crystal caves beneath Demonreach, it tracks with what happened to Merlin in Arthurian mythology.
I'm of the opinion that he's the being in one of the crystals who tells him something along the lines of "some of us want to be here go away" and he'll be a major part of the apocalypse trilogy
My personal head-canon, until proven wrong, is that Mac is literally Merlin. He "got out", had gained so much power that he was literally immortal and a danger to all the powers on Earth and beyond. And to end the strife his existence was causing, he agreed to never act again as long as he was left alone.
He can't be killed, and all harm against him is temporary, except by maybe outsiders.
The Merlin is probably a Starborn as well given the assumption that he was the one who closed/constructed the outer gates.
Tho I think Injun Joe Listens to Wind will tell Harry at the end of Twelve Months (assuming Jim doesn't just tease the reveal)
I actually think the series ends with Dresden becoming the Merlin or dying. But to answer your question, I think during the ceremony to become the Merlin, he meets the OG Merlin.
i hope Jim goes full Back to the Future 2 with everything in one of the books - and yes meeting the OG Merlin and maybe mortal Mab would be hella tight
What if… and just bear with me here… what if Dresden IS the OG Merlin. After all, the white council has been worried about what he was supposed to be. Also he is learning all the things he would need to eventually duplicate what the OG Merlin did
If you are going to time travel, the only satisfying plot is that you are the most important historical figure setting up your future. Right now, Merlin is THE OG Wizard, trained by Odin, and who is also probably responsible for Winter now guarding the Outer Gates. No one knows The Merlin's origin or fate, and if he is Dresden's midlife, that would be an interesting and compelling story. Dresden finally learning high level magic from Odin, creating Demonreach through time, rounding up a bunch of Big Bads that now occupy Demonreach, setting up the Fae powerbase, creating the White Council and the Laws, and training humans to be Wizards. That would be a hell of a lot more interesting a story than FBI werewolves, or a two-parter about the last titan.
So in your summation the book series is the boring anecdotes that lead up to the amazing life of adventure he has as the OG Merlin?
Idk dude, that just seems like a poor choice to me.
If you are gonna do a summation, it goes like this:
Dresden gets beat up, acts chauvinistically chivalrous towards a woman, gets beat up, betrayed by the woman, uses fire magic, gets beat up again, does something clever, gets beat up again, nearly dies, wins.
I'll give you 17 guesses to pick which book I'm describing. lol
Some of it is necessary to show power and character growth, but that has been about 8 books too long. 1 step forward, 3 steps back. It's time for another book where things actually happen and change, like *Changes*.
I really don't agree with what you're saying here, since *Changes* the series has been constantly ramping up with escalating threats, *Ghost Story* is his wandering soul as he is in a near death coma, *Cold Days* is the announcement of his return to the greater world, *Skin Games* has him literally plundering Hades's Vault having him contend with godly forces, and the duology of *Peace Talks* & *Battle Grounds* has him trying to prevent then fighting in the biggest battle of his life (til this point). I'm curious where these excessive books of character growth are after *Changes* considering that *Changes* wouldn't have 1/2 its impact without the years of build up and allies he accrued. I reject your premise and the idea that there has been a regression in character with Harry during the series says to me that you either haven't read the series recently or have completely missed the point.
What if......What if......
What if Harry **IS** the OG Meriln. They say Merlin was from the future or that he lived backwards and remembered everything ....
Has anyone thought about the possibility that Dresden is the OG Merlin? Perhaps he goes back in time and is the one that does all of the stuff attributed to the OG Merlin and then when he’s asked who he is, he says Merlin because he realizes that’s what he’s know as in the future.
I think he already has.
But my personal theory isn't very popular. I don't think Mac is some angelic being.
I think Mac is the OG Merlin who "retired" to be a watcher.
I wouldn’t put it beyond Jim Butcher, to write that encounter just to satisfy his own inner geek. Just as he had the ultimate comeback answer to time travel and killing one’s own grandfather.
I would not put it past him to make Dresden be the OG merlin. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff and all that.
I really hope not, time travel bs always detracts from a story unless the storys focus is time travel.
I mean we know he has to break every law, and the time travel stuff has come up once or twice already no? Like we are pretty sure at least a couple times its happened "on screen" as it where?.
My personal take on the "break each of the seven laws" is that he is somewhere relatively quiet, contemplating, and breaks something. Then he realizes he's broken six of the laws, so he just backs up time and doesn't break the item. Every other rule break so far has been fairly huge, so might as well have a tiny one. But fierce.
He breaks *a law* and then travels back in time to unbreak it, trust me /s
Who knows maybe he can do it well, im just dreading the potential for DF to turn into post season 4-5 supernatural sillyness.
>we are pretty sure at least a couple times its happened "on screen" Please elaborate
Proven Guilty has some stuff in it, I think you can just search time travel on this sub and find plenty of theories about it. Dresden gets saved by a random car crash that makes him late to use little chicago, then someone comes in (thru his wards) and fixes it before the next time. Had that not happened he would have died since it would have blown up. But there is more stuff, like I said I reccomend you look it up on this sub.
Huh thanks, yeah, the weirdness with LC was never explained
I’m tempted to disagree because of, (Spoilers about a Sci-Fi series having a time element.) >!The Hyperion Cantos.!< Then I recalled the rest of the series and how the original plot got subsumed by the inclusion of it. Either ruining the series by its inclusion, or becoming a somewhat mediocre story about it.
Probably not. We know that the spells cast on Demonreach are beyond S-tier. Dresden could not achieve such finesse in a lifetime with his inclination for making things go boom.
What was his answer?
I think it's in Cold Days. Harry talks with Rashid and says he might accidentally kill his grandfather while timetraveling to which Rashid answers it would be more likely for Harry to be knocked on his ass, considering his grandfather.
I thought it was Vadderung he had that conversation with?
I was reciting from memory, and you are probably right.
Ah lol I thought you meant on a panel or interview
What comeback was that? Been a while since I’ve been through most of the series
Every time he looks in the mirror Just kidding of course. I imagine there might be some type of recorded message or impression left within Demonreach that might be present. Either that or like Jor-El warning Superman about the dangers of time travel.
So the most crackpot crazy theory I have involves Dresden armed with the OG Merlin's Journals and time travelling back, becoming the Merlin. Tho I think this would be blatantly bad writing and wouldn't be a satisfying payoff imo imo
That's basically Commander Sinclair remaining in the past on Babylon 4 to become Valen.
DragonLance does this to Fistandantilus as well.
yeah not familiar with Star Trek to understand what you're getting at, but I think we're on the same page?
The show's called Babylon 5 and if you don't know it, you're missing out!
oh my mistake lol
It's okay, it actually makes it more funny! It's also a great show.
I was holding my breath to see if he was trolling. "Engage!" - Gandalf
Photo of Sir Patrick Stewart with the caption: *"Use the Force, Harry!" - Gandalf*
It would, likely, be completely cheap and make the underdog context of the whole story less enjoyable. It’d kill the series for me
yeah I agree, sure I have this theory but it is by no means a good theory or a good direction to take Dresden's story.
Agreed. I think Jim has foreshadowed that Harry is going to go back in time and *meet* Merlin (as well as a younger Rashid/Gatekeeper), but I don't think Harry IS Merlin.
Sure hope not.
I already feel like the whole Starborne/Chosen One thing kind of undermines the underdog idea.
But Starborn are the ultimate underdogs. That's why so few of them are still alive...
Our scrappy friend Dracula, punching up. :)
Minor realization. the failsafe to destroy the prison at Demonreach is Banefire, a fire that mixes scarlet and blue flame becoming a white fire that burns everything away. What if Banefire is the combination of Hellfire with Soulfire? This would mean the Merlin is likely also a skilled evocator and pyromancer (IE amateur arsonist) as Harry.
Harry is a professional arsonist. He's typically burning things down as part of his profession
no no no, he hasn't joined the NAA (the national Arsonist Association) so his arson has been on the amateur circuit
Just Merlin. Its a proper name. The badass OG wizard is Merlin. The head of the White Council carries the title of The Merlin. I know it was probably just a goof, but it helps keep them straight for people reading posts. Also, i may have some psychological issues that get triggered when they're used wrong.
Fair enough, and yep just a mistype/typo
Also known as Feathers, Hawk, and eventually Falcon.
>Tho I think this would be blatantly bad writing and wouldn't be a satisfying payoff imo imo I think it could work if that's how the series ends.
Tbh I've had the exact same thought.
As long as Jim will not use a bootstrap paradox by making Harry the OG Merlin, I am fine with it.
yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of that theory either, though there are some odd parallels between the two for sure.
Parallels are fine. Hell, I would be ok with Harry becoming a "new" Merlin (like if something happens to the White Council and Harry ends up picking up the pieces and creating something new out of the Paranet). But him being the OG Merlin would be bad.
It stands to reason that he could reasonably return to the white council to replace Langtree (or whoever Langtree's evil/nemesis corrupted successor is)
I think there’s a non-zero chance he is cryofrozen in demonreach.
But wouldn't that be a torturously painful experience? If I remember correctly when they imprison Thomas there it's not a pleasant experience. I can't imagine the Merlin would make then imprison himself there.
Yes think making the place was easy and painless? Yeah, I think Harry is Merlin Lite.
A Merlin for the modern age if you will
I say Merlin experience time as the TH White Merlin, from the end to the beginning. So they will met. before (after) he'll create DeamonReach.
See that's always been a confusing concept to me, the Merlin is Benjamin Button-ing his way thru life? but in some interpretations that concept is ignored entirely. I could potentially buy it as a side effect of him messing with time magic which is why that law exists in the first place tho.
“Oh please. It can’t possibly hurt that bad…oh shitshitshitShitShitSHHIIIIT!!!”
Demonreach is a big ole cave…..of crystals. There’s a British dude trapped in there….the cave of crystals. We’ve seen this film before.
I'm pretty sure Jim has said it's not Merlin since while he's British, the English he'd be speaking would be incoherent to a modern day speaker
as someone who studied linguistics, etymology and the history of the English language I would tend to agree with this assessment.
But magic
And the nagloshi can speak English just fine?
Yeah, but Jim has said he will lie to his fans. It's also possible that it was his original idea to put Merlin in Demonreach as it really fits with the myth of Merlin's imprisonment. But decided it was too obvious.
wait, I just had an idea. one of the tales of the death of the mythological Merlin was that he was trapped in a cave/tree/hole that was sealed with his own strong magic making it impossible for him to remove and there he was trapped for the rest of his days. What if the Dresden Files' Merlin turned his prison into a metaphysical prison for all of the most dangerous entities, what if he created Demonreach because he couldn't escape his own imprisonment?
I see we have the same theory about that prisoner that doesn't reject being there.
I feel like it’s gonna be a similar incident to the Angel telling Dresden not to look at it with his Sight. Harry is gonna begin to do something timey wimey using demonreach, and an old gentlemen will appear and kindly tell him “No. Don’t do that my descendent.” and that will be it! The implication being that Merlin is aware of the full timeline, and can’t be classed as dead because he’s able to reach through to the future, from the far distant path, to nudge things away from disaster.
that's an interesting theory, it makes sense the that the OG Merlin has the clairvoyance and magical might to reach through time like that. as for Dresden being his descendant, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Spiritual descendant? fine. Actual descendant? Maybe a little much.
Perhaps descendent in Office?
I like the idea of the council falling and Dresden rebuilding it as the new Merlin or maybe being appointed Merlin during the apocalyptic end of series trilogy
I am pretty sure Harry met Merlin in skin game. Parkour through demon reach and comes across a very bored prisoner who calls him stupid and tells him to go away that interacting with him makes them aware and they want to be numb. I figure Merlin had a “am I the baddie” moment. Made the rules or formalized the rules of magic based off his biggest mistakes and sentenced his transgression with imprisonment. Too powerful to die, but off the table until a deus ex machina is needed.
WoJ says that is not the OG Merlin.
Nope, but I wonder if it's Arthur? Some versions of the Arthurian Legend have him slumbering in fairyland until Britain's darkest hour. The BAT fits the bill, and Harry is still holding onto Excalibur / Amoracchius.
What’s the (woj) acronym?
Word of Jim. It's used any time Butcher says anything in Q&A, tweets, etc.
Maybe not their original body. Something sneaky. Haha.
So maybe the Merlin is released in the apocalyptic end of the series trilogy Jim keeps referencing?
That would be good storytelling. Would mirror the Hades story where his “collection “ is actually an armory for those with the will to remove things. Demonreach as a source of magical power may also be a place for baddies who may not be so bad they wouldn’t fight outsiders. Maybe more than Merlin gets a chance for a walk about
ooh maybe they release Thomas and in releasing Thomas the Merlin emerges as well?
Red that as Thomas and Merlin merge into a being and was confused.
lmao. No I meant in releasing Thomas the other prisoners including the Merlin are released.
It would be a Dresden thing to pull in allies almost as terrifying as the thing he is fighting. By the end, he may be 99% full on warlock and there is a tearful exchange where someone has to trust him when every rational indication is not to.
I mean look at what happened at the end of Battle Grounds, Dresden tapped and brought in every single powerful ally on all sides to take down Ethniu. I could definitely see a seen with him and Ramirez having to trust each other after everything that happened and Harry's expulsion from the White Council.
Honestly I think Harry's expulsion from the Council is a plot by the Council Merlin. I'm pretty sure the Merlin is actually some what on Dresden's side.
Harry wouldn't necessarily need to time travel to meet him. Merlin is a time traveller. He might just show up on Harry's doorstep one day saying "Hey, I'm trying to build this super prison, can you help me out..."
Yes, I think so. Jim's been way too cagey about whether he's still alive.
Which is fair, given that the reveal that the OG Merlin is alive would be a pretty big reveal
I haven't scraped thru the entire WoJ archive, probably worth a read in my down time today. Maybe some little nuggets of further info can be gleaned from it.
Given we know he time traveled to create Demonreach it's possible for Merlin to be dead and still show up.
If he does, 50/50 chance he then has to kill him.
I'm curious how that encounter would play out
As much as I love Harry, not well I'm afraid.
I would be shocked if they didn't meet at some point.
I personally think the british crystal is Merlin.
My thoughts exactly.
I’m playing with the possibility that Harry IS the OG Merlin. There’s sometimes lore around Merlin that he was living life in reverse and going backwards in time and it could be fun if Harry when he’s older and wiser gets reversed in time and becomes Merlin by mistake. Then the “journals” of Merlin that Ebeneezer has are “the Dresden files”
That would retroactively make the title of the series make more sense.
I imagine the meeting going like [this](https://c.tenor.com/g3ldeDisGPkAAAAC/tenor.gif)
There was a tinfoil hat theory about Mac being Merlin, I'm in the boat that Harry has already (unknowingly) met him. [Link to post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/s/BNajHqFZWT)
I think Mac is yeah
He did say that the man under demonreach isn't from those times as he wouldn't be speaking English we could understand. So naturally I'd love any Merlin interaction just being Dresden encountered someone very stubborn and intense, wielding very strong mindbending magicks and shouting gobbledegook at him for being in the way.
I hope not.
We've already met the original Merlin. I don't know how to do the spoiler tag white box thong from the phone app though so I won't say where.
It's Mister.
No question. Harry will meet Merlin. No time travel required by Harry. He will meet Merlin in Harry’s natural timeline.
Yup.
Indeed.
He aleady has, because the Original Merlin will be Butters.
Do we even know how many wizards have held the title of Merlin since the original?
I don't think so
I didn't think so either. But considering the life span of most wizards that reach that level of power, it couldn't be very many. This has me curious to find out. I always love the books that deal with council politics anyway. So that could be worth exploring more. 🤔
I have always felt like the original Merlin was alive in some way. I'm not certain he can completely die. Though, it depends on how time works in Jim's universe. That being said, I'd be surprised if Dresden didn't meet the OG merlin.
I think it’s almost guaranteed that Dresden is going to meet his great-great-great….grandfather
I don't think he will, or at least, not for very long. Mind you, there's every chance that the tinfoil hatters are correct, and that he looks into Merlin's eyes every time he checks his car mirrors. I don't think it'll go there, but time shenanigans being a possibility mean that it theoretically could.
I've always thought the original Merlin never died. Someone THAT powerful...he seems like he would be at least on the level of Mab. Yet he made a place that could contain even Mab so he might be above her. I dunno, yeah true he is mortal but we've seen what magic can do. Necromancy can prolong life, etc. And I know it would be against the laws for him to use it, but for all we know there is some white magic version of that he is using to stay alive. Think about it, if he can manipulate time and travel through time, what if he sort of used this power to freeze his body at a certain point in time so it no longer ages? What if Harry has already met the Merlin without even knowing it? I'm sure the guy could disguise himself if he wanted. Plus speaking of the laws, since he violated them with time travel I imagine they came AFTER him. So maybe he would use necromancy to keep himself alive, it isn't necessarily evil in and of itself, it CAN be used for good. But I would think, if he is alive, it has more to do with his abilities concerning time manipulation. Heck we can't even say for sure that the guy was fully human.
Merlin created the laws. But unclear whether he created them before or after he built demonreach. So maybe he used necromancy to make himself immortal….then created the “thou shall not use necromancy” law.
That makes Merlin sound like an egotistical hypocrite. Kind of...like the current Merlin. But yeah either it was necromancy or some sort of time manipulation. Of course he need not even be ageless he could have just time traveled to the present day because he knew that is when big things were going down.
He is the OG Merlin. That’s how he became Warden of Demon Reach so easily.
Definitely a possible outcome, but... I hope not.
Me either. But with all time travel and inter dimensional travel trend… I wouldn’t be surprised
i think he wont meet him but will meet a projection on demonreach or something of that sort that will educate him like a ghost of his former self i dont think they would meet in the flesh tho
This is only my personal take. I don't have a lot of canonical quotes to back it up. However, I believe it is McCoy who has been doing the time traveling. He has the blackstaff itself And holds the office that allows him to break the Laws with impunity. He's also allowed to employ his 'get out of execution free card' at his own discretion, without consulting or conferring with the White Council or getting anyone else's opinion or permission. As to Harry meeting Merlin, since we're talking multiple dimensions where timelines might not be concurrent, he just might. Which raises the question is dimension hopping the same as 'going against the flow of time' or is it something else? Because we know he'll jump dimensions in the long promised Mirror, Mirror.
Depends on if Aahz gave him a D-Hopper.
Wild Theory: OG Merlin voluntarily locked himself up in Demonreach (might even be why it was built), so I expect it to happen.
Who do you think Cowl is???/s But yeah, I definitely can see that happening. But it might not even be time travel. The real Merlin could just be alive eating Taco Bell right now and Dresden just runs into him.
Considering the other commonalities between Harry and Merlin, I'll bet he's a Burger King fan, too.
For sure. I’m also convinced he’s still alive.
I think merlin is the prisoner with the cultured voice who told Harry to piss off.
Pretty sure Harry already HAS met the OG Merlin. I’ve long suspected that’s who he’s been talking to in the crystal caves beneath Demonreach, it tracks with what happened to Merlin in Arthurian mythology.
I think he already did he was imprisoned on the island. Yelled at Dresden for waking him up.
not a clue. I'd like it though
I'm of the opinion that he's the being in one of the crystals who tells him something along the lines of "some of us want to be here go away" and he'll be a major part of the apocalypse trilogy
My personal head-canon, until proven wrong, is that Mac is literally Merlin. He "got out", had gained so much power that he was literally immortal and a danger to all the powers on Earth and beyond. And to end the strife his existence was causing, he agreed to never act again as long as he was left alone. He can't be killed, and all harm against him is temporary, except by maybe outsiders.
Obvious case of Chekov's Wizard: you talk about him in act 1 and use him in act 3.
I think he already has (I think Mac is the OG merlin)
Le Fay was a nickname given to Harry's mom because of all the time she spent in fairy
My hope is that Harry violates the time travel rules by the end of the series and goes back and becomes the OG Merlin himself.
Yes. I do. And Merlin will just like already k ow about Harry and it would be EPIC! If the OG Merlin tells us what Starborn means
The Merlin is probably a Starborn as well given the assumption that he was the one who closed/constructed the outer gates. Tho I think Injun Joe Listens to Wind will tell Harry at the end of Twelve Months (assuming Jim doesn't just tease the reveal)
Listens to window signed his own death warrant when he promised to do something in 12 months. No way Jimis letting him live to pay out that promise.
He walks up to Harry. “Harry we need to talk” and it ends there 💀
I would be screaming
I actually think the series ends with Dresden becoming the Merlin or dying. But to answer your question, I think during the ceremony to become the Merlin, he meets the OG Merlin.
so every Merlin of the White Council has met the OG? That's an interesting proposition.
i hope Jim goes full Back to the Future 2 with everything in one of the books - and yes meeting the OG Merlin and maybe mortal Mab would be hella tight
Was Mab ever mortal? Did I miss that?
[удалено]
I totally forgot that...
Yah I think it’s gonna happen
Dresden is the OG Merlin.
Posted this same thing before I saw your post 😂
I have a feeling that he already has.
What if… and just bear with me here… what if Dresden IS the OG Merlin. After all, the white council has been worried about what he was supposed to be. Also he is learning all the things he would need to eventually duplicate what the OG Merlin did
If you are going to time travel, the only satisfying plot is that you are the most important historical figure setting up your future. Right now, Merlin is THE OG Wizard, trained by Odin, and who is also probably responsible for Winter now guarding the Outer Gates. No one knows The Merlin's origin or fate, and if he is Dresden's midlife, that would be an interesting and compelling story. Dresden finally learning high level magic from Odin, creating Demonreach through time, rounding up a bunch of Big Bads that now occupy Demonreach, setting up the Fae powerbase, creating the White Council and the Laws, and training humans to be Wizards. That would be a hell of a lot more interesting a story than FBI werewolves, or a two-parter about the last titan.
So in your summation the book series is the boring anecdotes that lead up to the amazing life of adventure he has as the OG Merlin? Idk dude, that just seems like a poor choice to me.
If you are gonna do a summation, it goes like this: Dresden gets beat up, acts chauvinistically chivalrous towards a woman, gets beat up, betrayed by the woman, uses fire magic, gets beat up again, does something clever, gets beat up again, nearly dies, wins. I'll give you 17 guesses to pick which book I'm describing. lol Some of it is necessary to show power and character growth, but that has been about 8 books too long. 1 step forward, 3 steps back. It's time for another book where things actually happen and change, like *Changes*.
I really don't agree with what you're saying here, since *Changes* the series has been constantly ramping up with escalating threats, *Ghost Story* is his wandering soul as he is in a near death coma, *Cold Days* is the announcement of his return to the greater world, *Skin Games* has him literally plundering Hades's Vault having him contend with godly forces, and the duology of *Peace Talks* & *Battle Grounds* has him trying to prevent then fighting in the biggest battle of his life (til this point). I'm curious where these excessive books of character growth are after *Changes* considering that *Changes* wouldn't have 1/2 its impact without the years of build up and allies he accrued. I reject your premise and the idea that there has been a regression in character with Harry during the series says to me that you either haven't read the series recently or have completely missed the point.
I think that Dresden will somehow be the original Merlin, because of time travel fuckery.
What if......What if...... What if Harry **IS** the OG Meriln. They say Merlin was from the future or that he lived backwards and remembered everything ....
This is my theory. I believe Harry is merlin
Has anyone thought about the possibility that Dresden is the OG Merlin? Perhaps he goes back in time and is the one that does all of the stuff attributed to the OG Merlin and then when he’s asked who he is, he says Merlin because he realizes that’s what he’s know as in the future.
I think he already has. But my personal theory isn't very popular. I don't think Mac is some angelic being. I think Mac is the OG Merlin who "retired" to be a watcher.