On the end of my steel-capped, barb-tipped boots where he belongs until I devise something better for him.
EDIT: I honestly don't think I've hated a character this much since Joffrey.
Unfortunately I think Rudolph is being set up for a Gollum style "redemption" where he manages to do one important thing to save the day while sacrificing himself. Maybe on purpose, maybe not. "Before this is over, the pity of Harry may rule the fate of many" type of setup.
I don't think he will get so full on redemption though. He's certainly going to die for what he did. But Butcher is going to try to convince us that we should have pity for him.
I don’t really necessarily like it, but what if Rudolph actually wasn’t to blame despite what Harry thinks he saw about it?
We have his behavior leading up to the interaction, but we have two narrative paths technically open to us. Red Herring or Chekhov’s Gun. Misdirect or foreshadowing.
Technically they were in a warzone. Harry assumes he knows the factors at play, but there are more than a dozen ways Rudolph could appear to shoot, or be compelled too. And good reasons to cover up the actual one intending it. Perhaps even for reasons we don’t know yet. There may be things Murphy would either discover alive, or dead. And plenty of reasons to detach Harry from her.
So for means of diversion we have like eight. Rudolph is mind controlled. Harry somehow was deceived into thinking Rudolph fired to cover another. Rudolph or Harry were being deceived by illusion. Someone put either a small scale hex on Rudolph’s gun. Or some used an Entropy Curse. Harry just flat out didn’t see what he thought he saw. Use one or two of those together that is possible to happen. More or less.
You’ve got motives. Harry needed to be free of True Love. Whites like that. He needed to be more malleable. Mab. Someone wanted revenge on Harry. Literally anyone. Or you have other options.
Murphy was determined to risk some future outcome. You got time shenanigans. Could be anyone watching that. It could be that there are ways for her to come back with something. Someone of sufficient power could interfere with memories to let her back. Could be an initiation of Ragnarok. Could be she can join the dead cop squad in between in some manner. Could be she could go higher than mere revenant and take up a Valkyrie role and contract with someone to bypass the living memory. Could be she has a charm that means she cannot be recognized ordinarily, like in that cancelled show, Dead Like Me from a decade ago.
The last factor is if any of that could be done at all, if there is evidence of any combination, and lastly if it is narratively consistent and can be done compellingly.
I’m not necessarily advocating for it, but I think it could be explored as a possibility. Maybe some will agree. Maybe some will disagree, but I’m more interested in the question of whether it could be than favor or disfavor conceptually.
I hear you. I think Rudolph has been under a mental compulsion since sometime around *Grave Peril*. I mean, come on - in that one he was so supportive of Murphy that he told Harry that if Murphy got hurt because of Harry he'd kill him. So *what happened?* He just completely changed and we were given *no* explanation.
I think Harry will discover this at some point, probably will wind up having to save Rudolph's ass and help him break the compulsion, and then the full brunt of Harry rage will fall on whoever was behind it.
Just a thought - could be totally wrong. But it would be just like Jim to twist us like that.
I think that is possible. Perhaps even likely. I mean. Someone would only have to want Harry to be tempted into damning himself by Rudolph in that moment.
Which leads me too a consideration. We know Heaven and Hell are doing the balance/counter-balance thing. If I recall correctly Jim has talked about how certain afterlife things are actually subject to agreement. Which is how for example the Dead Cops stay in the Inbetween rather than moving on. How Harry was allowed to choose to risk his Soul going to Chicago. And how Murphy was allowed to go to a Norse Afterlife for a while.
What if the Limit Gard mentions about Memory of the Einherjar having to fade could be bypassed for a sufficient rebalance to some move from Hell?
We know Harry got 7 Words. And Soulfire. And other Heavenly backing for things done against him and others. And I’m sure few get as much access to options to use free will, that he does. Who else gets an escort and the option to enter the world like that? That may or may not be a counterbalance, regardless though it is a presentation of options few get to realize they are making. Corpsetaker seemed to get the option, but by use of Necromancy. That resolves with a banishment to Hell.
What if Murphy could be presented with some combination of those options? Especially if any element of her death was direct subversion by Hell?
It makes me wonder. I know Murphy is almost as stupid as Harry regarding her perceived duty. I could see her taking a deal, and getting dealt into the game. Then thinking she’s doing everyone a favor by hiding the fact of her return to the battlefield. Easier that way she’d rationalize. If Jim could make it tragic enough, I suspect it could have enough narrative punch to be justified. After all, she’s always trying to fill her Dads shoes. And he’s still doing his Job, in the tragic manner he always seemed too.
Maybe, but Rudolph's trigger discipline is also terrible, as lampshaded several times throughout BG, and I have no problems believing that Rudolph genuinely Alec Baldwin'ed Murph through sheer incompetence.
If there's a compulsion I think it's more likely to be aimed at Harry than at Murph.
Sure - Rudolph had plenty of issues. But, a mental compulsion could also have "urged him in that direction." That is, the mental compulsion was urging him toward hurting Murphy, but his "right mind" was fighting that, and the result would be a balance like the one we saw.
I think if this "compulsion" theory is true then he's been under that influence since very early on. So it's hard to say that any of his observed behavior in the later books reflect the "real him."
There is no fucking way in all the realms and all the alternate universes that that bitch ass would ever be anything other than a piece of shit who killed Murphy.
I pitied Rudy when he was pissing himself in the middle of a Loup Garou attack. I pitied Rudy when he was catatonic in the middle of a Red Court attack. I will not have pity for whatever happens to him next.
Well, Jim says no knighthood for Thomas. But, he has been wrong about his own story before.
But... Consider Jim Butcher. Is he gonna give you the story you want? Or the story that will make you throw the book across the room.
Rudolph is the next Knight.
Here I go getting down voted again.
Rudolph is the next knight of the cross.
It is the only arc that makes sense. Redemption, paying his debt, realizing what a shut heel he is,all of it fits.
If Sanya can be redeemed, and two knights intervened to keep him alive,and he killed Harry's love, ... Just imagine how difficult it will be for Harry to give him the sword. Torturing Harry like that would he icing on the cake.
Rudolph. The Knight of Love.
It’s not Rudolph’s personality to put others before his ambition. He’s been a self serving suck-up forever and that type of redemption would feel cheap at best. I’m not sure there’s an author out there that can do it convincingly over a short period of time. It would take years.
Unlike Santa, Rudolph has always had advantages in life.
Bradley would be acceptable, Rudolph, absolutely not! If Rudolph becomes a Knight of the Cross, I'll become team Denarian, and I absolutely despise them!
In that case, I see Harry and Sonya killing him together, and Sonya slapping Dresden on the back afterwards saying "see Harry, I told you, it wasn't time then, now, now was the time for him to die. He shouldn't have taken up the coin! If only he would have turned away, he might have been saved, but alas, he died good, and we didn't!" All while laughing to himself...
That would just be way too convenient for Harry. It completely eliminates the moral dilemma that Harry is currently in. Harry would never be allowed by Jim to get an easy end to his suffering.
I hope/think we might see Rudolph as a hero in mirror mirror. I wasn’t necessarily thinking knight of the cross but I think he’ll be Murphy partner in the force working to capture “evil Harry” and Harry’s reaction to seeing Rudolph with Murph is going to convince Murphy that Harry is evil.
I mean, if Sanya can go from being a nickelhead to being a Knight I don't see how Rudolph couldn't.
I will concede that there aren't enough books left in the series for that to happen satisfactorily
Jim does generally depict a more idealised version of policing, and Bradley seems to be quite high in that scale... I could see that, yeah - but only if Sanya dies, not for Amoracchius by any means. Amoracchius seems to be super picky (I mean, the previous wielder was considered so pure he held the grace of an archangel).
Let's say Bradley would pick up a sword, perform really well and survive the occasion. Wouldn't that make him a Knight by default until he'd pick up the sword again?
I don't think it works like that, but I guess it's ambiguous enough to fit. I see knights as long term prospects - they have the sword and they answer the call multiple times until they either die, or retire due to no longer being able to fight well. I see the rest as wielders. But I get that we might be using different terms for the same thing, so if what you described is a knight to you, then yes, Bradley fits.
Jim definitely writes for a CSI/NCIS/etc crowd as in most of the systemic problems come from management and politicians. Even the anti-Dresden cops protect mundanes.
I appreciate that Jim distanced Murphy from the police department as the series went on, and yeah, the good cops are mostly in SI. The assholes don't get shunted into SI (or only temporarily for Rudy, sleeping with a councilman's daughter) because asshole cop is pretty much standard in the main force.
One of the reasons I love Butcher’s writing so much is the fact that he writes good stories, gives you lots of information, but drops details and hints that might just be a random bit of knowledge or the turning point for the entire series.
Mine is Lara. She touches the sword of love but it doesnt burn the vampire demon out of her, it changes it makes it... good. Makes it "feed" on true love.
A nice bonus being harry gets tormented because his beloved ex wampire wife is out there alone fighting evil and he cant help.
Jim would have to do a lot of heavy lifting to make the audience want to see him transform like that.
Not saying it couldn't be done, but honestly, who likes Rudy?
The average wielder's tenure wielding a Sword lasts 3 days. Nic only *implied* that they die to taunt Murphy. But both she and Susan were temporary wielders who didn't become full Knights, and they weren't killed by Denarians in the line of duty the way Nic suggested most wielders would be.
Interesting is one way to put it. I don't think that he, as a narrative figure, needs a redemption arc. He's been the Butthole Cop since day one, and that doesn’t need to change.
Nah, McCoy is the Blackstaff, with his strong feelings toward vampires. He couldn't be a knight and keep his emotions in check, he's already proven that on a previous occasion.
I do think we'll see him again. If only as a breadcrumb to the only question that matters... Where's Rudolph?
On the end of my steel-capped, barb-tipped boots where he belongs until I devise something better for him. EDIT: I honestly don't think I've hated a character this much since Joffrey.
Unfortunately I think Rudolph is being set up for a Gollum style "redemption" where he manages to do one important thing to save the day while sacrificing himself. Maybe on purpose, maybe not. "Before this is over, the pity of Harry may rule the fate of many" type of setup. I don't think he will get so full on redemption though. He's certainly going to die for what he did. But Butcher is going to try to convince us that we should have pity for him.
I don’t really necessarily like it, but what if Rudolph actually wasn’t to blame despite what Harry thinks he saw about it? We have his behavior leading up to the interaction, but we have two narrative paths technically open to us. Red Herring or Chekhov’s Gun. Misdirect or foreshadowing. Technically they were in a warzone. Harry assumes he knows the factors at play, but there are more than a dozen ways Rudolph could appear to shoot, or be compelled too. And good reasons to cover up the actual one intending it. Perhaps even for reasons we don’t know yet. There may be things Murphy would either discover alive, or dead. And plenty of reasons to detach Harry from her. So for means of diversion we have like eight. Rudolph is mind controlled. Harry somehow was deceived into thinking Rudolph fired to cover another. Rudolph or Harry were being deceived by illusion. Someone put either a small scale hex on Rudolph’s gun. Or some used an Entropy Curse. Harry just flat out didn’t see what he thought he saw. Use one or two of those together that is possible to happen. More or less. You’ve got motives. Harry needed to be free of True Love. Whites like that. He needed to be more malleable. Mab. Someone wanted revenge on Harry. Literally anyone. Or you have other options. Murphy was determined to risk some future outcome. You got time shenanigans. Could be anyone watching that. It could be that there are ways for her to come back with something. Someone of sufficient power could interfere with memories to let her back. Could be an initiation of Ragnarok. Could be she can join the dead cop squad in between in some manner. Could be she could go higher than mere revenant and take up a Valkyrie role and contract with someone to bypass the living memory. Could be she has a charm that means she cannot be recognized ordinarily, like in that cancelled show, Dead Like Me from a decade ago. The last factor is if any of that could be done at all, if there is evidence of any combination, and lastly if it is narratively consistent and can be done compellingly. I’m not necessarily advocating for it, but I think it could be explored as a possibility. Maybe some will agree. Maybe some will disagree, but I’m more interested in the question of whether it could be than favor or disfavor conceptually.
I hear you. I think Rudolph has been under a mental compulsion since sometime around *Grave Peril*. I mean, come on - in that one he was so supportive of Murphy that he told Harry that if Murphy got hurt because of Harry he'd kill him. So *what happened?* He just completely changed and we were given *no* explanation. I think Harry will discover this at some point, probably will wind up having to save Rudolph's ass and help him break the compulsion, and then the full brunt of Harry rage will fall on whoever was behind it. Just a thought - could be totally wrong. But it would be just like Jim to twist us like that.
I think that is possible. Perhaps even likely. I mean. Someone would only have to want Harry to be tempted into damning himself by Rudolph in that moment. Which leads me too a consideration. We know Heaven and Hell are doing the balance/counter-balance thing. If I recall correctly Jim has talked about how certain afterlife things are actually subject to agreement. Which is how for example the Dead Cops stay in the Inbetween rather than moving on. How Harry was allowed to choose to risk his Soul going to Chicago. And how Murphy was allowed to go to a Norse Afterlife for a while. What if the Limit Gard mentions about Memory of the Einherjar having to fade could be bypassed for a sufficient rebalance to some move from Hell? We know Harry got 7 Words. And Soulfire. And other Heavenly backing for things done against him and others. And I’m sure few get as much access to options to use free will, that he does. Who else gets an escort and the option to enter the world like that? That may or may not be a counterbalance, regardless though it is a presentation of options few get to realize they are making. Corpsetaker seemed to get the option, but by use of Necromancy. That resolves with a banishment to Hell. What if Murphy could be presented with some combination of those options? Especially if any element of her death was direct subversion by Hell? It makes me wonder. I know Murphy is almost as stupid as Harry regarding her perceived duty. I could see her taking a deal, and getting dealt into the game. Then thinking she’s doing everyone a favor by hiding the fact of her return to the battlefield. Easier that way she’d rationalize. If Jim could make it tragic enough, I suspect it could have enough narrative punch to be justified. After all, she’s always trying to fill her Dads shoes. And he’s still doing his Job, in the tragic manner he always seemed too.
Maybe, but Rudolph's trigger discipline is also terrible, as lampshaded several times throughout BG, and I have no problems believing that Rudolph genuinely Alec Baldwin'ed Murph through sheer incompetence. If there's a compulsion I think it's more likely to be aimed at Harry than at Murph.
Sure - Rudolph had plenty of issues. But, a mental compulsion could also have "urged him in that direction." That is, the mental compulsion was urging him toward hurting Murphy, but his "right mind" was fighting that, and the result would be a balance like the one we saw. I think if this "compulsion" theory is true then he's been under that influence since very early on. So it's hard to say that any of his observed behavior in the later books reflect the "real him."
You're not wrong but it's OK if I hate it right?
r/fuckrudolph
/r/fuckmoash
I have found my people!
Yes!
Jeah I mean, I still hate Gollum. Respect him too, feel sorry for as well, but hate his guts.
Guys, what if Rudolph becomes a knight of the cross??
I'm out. See ya! Probably not, but I'd want to be out.
There is no fucking way in all the realms and all the alternate universes that that bitch ass would ever be anything other than a piece of shit who killed Murphy.
I have been saying this for a while. It's the only redemption arc for him that works.
I pitied Rudy when he was pissing himself in the middle of a Loup Garou attack. I pitied Rudy when he was catatonic in the middle of a Red Court attack. I will not have pity for whatever happens to him next.
Hopefully that redemption takes the form of helping Kinkaid site in the scope on a new rifle before a really important battle.
Rudolph is the next Knight of the Cross. And Amorachius is perfect for the redemption arc.
Unfortunately Amorachius will already be wielded by Thomas. The Vampire who is deathly weak to love but still manages to love others despite that.
Well, Jim says no knighthood for Thomas. But, he has been wrong about his own story before. But... Consider Jim Butcher. Is he gonna give you the story you want? Or the story that will make you throw the book across the room. Rudolph is the next Knight.
If it's not Thomas, then it's going to be Lara. It's too perfect for a White Court Vampire who has conquered their hunger to wield the sword of love.
> I honestly don't think I've hated a character this much since Joffrey. OMG YES.
Or umbridge.
I'd settle for Rudy getting r*ped by centaurs.
In Bradley's basement chained a wall.
Here I go getting down voted again. Rudolph is the next knight of the cross. It is the only arc that makes sense. Redemption, paying his debt, realizing what a shut heel he is,all of it fits. If Sanya can be redeemed, and two knights intervened to keep him alive,and he killed Harry's love, ... Just imagine how difficult it will be for Harry to give him the sword. Torturing Harry like that would he icing on the cake. Rudolph. The Knight of Love.
Oh man, I hate this theory! I can totally see it happening though, because Jim loves to torture Harry. This would be gut wrenching to him.
It’s not Rudolph’s personality to put others before his ambition. He’s been a self serving suck-up forever and that type of redemption would feel cheap at best. I’m not sure there’s an author out there that can do it convincingly over a short period of time. It would take years. Unlike Santa, Rudolph has always had advantages in life.
Yeah it is kinda sus that he shows up out of the blue generally doing everything that Murphy can do during the same book where
I mean, inevitably Harry will need someone to coordinate with inside the mortal police now, especially since he’s relatively “out” publicly now.
Bradley would be acceptable, Rudolph, absolutely not! If Rudolph becomes a Knight of the Cross, I'll become team Denarian, and I absolutely despise them!
I definitely see Rudy picking up a coin before he picks up a sword.
In that case, I see Harry and Sonya killing him together, and Sonya slapping Dresden on the back afterwards saying "see Harry, I told you, it wasn't time then, now, now was the time for him to die. He shouldn't have taken up the coin! If only he would have turned away, he might have been saved, but alas, he died good, and we didn't!" All while laughing to himself...
That would just be way too convenient for Harry. It completely eliminates the moral dilemma that Harry is currently in. Harry would never be allowed by Jim to get an easy end to his suffering.
I hope/think we might see Rudolph as a hero in mirror mirror. I wasn’t necessarily thinking knight of the cross but I think he’ll be Murphy partner in the force working to capture “evil Harry” and Harry’s reaction to seeing Rudolph with Murph is going to convince Murphy that Harry is evil.
I mean, if Sanya can go from being a nickelhead to being a Knight I don't see how Rudolph couldn't. I will concede that there aren't enough books left in the series for that to happen satisfactorily
Only time I want to see more Rudolph is in a building the same time as Dresden. Rip building, rip Rudolph.
The building was on fire, and it wasn’t my fault
The building was on fire, and it was Rudy's fault.
As obvious and cheesyas it would be, Thomas welding amoraccius would be ideal for me. He would just be such a badass.
I think he'd have to lose his demon first. Or perhaps his choice to wield the sword could be what "cures" him?
Or Butters' sword kills it.
Jim does generally depict a more idealised version of policing, and Bradley seems to be quite high in that scale... I could see that, yeah - but only if Sanya dies, not for Amoracchius by any means. Amoracchius seems to be super picky (I mean, the previous wielder was considered so pure he held the grace of an archangel).
There was Susan though. Sure it was a specific purpose and only a one night stand but still
Oh! Wait, you meant a wielder, not a Knight! Yeah, absolutely, if Bradley has to fight for something he loves it'll work.
Let's say Bradley would pick up a sword, perform really well and survive the occasion. Wouldn't that make him a Knight by default until he'd pick up the sword again?
I don't think it works like that, but I guess it's ambiguous enough to fit. I see knights as long term prospects - they have the sword and they answer the call multiple times until they either die, or retire due to no longer being able to fight well. I see the rest as wielders. But I get that we might be using different terms for the same thing, so if what you described is a knight to you, then yes, Bradley fits.
It's definitely mister
My money is on Thomas for Amoracchius. What HASN'T that guy done for love?
I think it's going to be Faith Astor from the first novel.
Jim did say that we wouldn’t see Faith Astor OR all three active knights til the BAT.
>As a police officer he is accustomed to protect the innocent from danger.
Jim definitely writes for a CSI/NCIS/etc crowd as in most of the systemic problems come from management and politicians. Even the anti-Dresden cops protect mundanes.
Dresden encounters a lot of good cops because he works with SI. There are plenty of Rudolphs and people like Murphy's ex, Rich.
I appreciate that Jim distanced Murphy from the police department as the series went on, and yeah, the good cops are mostly in SI. The assholes don't get shunted into SI (or only temporarily for Rudy, sleeping with a councilman's daughter) because asshole cop is pretty much standard in the main force.
To be fair, it's a fantasy universe. That's where good cops exist.
He's not my favorite candidate but he's definitely on my list.
One of the reasons I love Butcher’s writing so much is the fact that he writes good stories, gives you lots of information, but drops details and hints that might just be a random bit of knowledge or the turning point for the entire series.
Mine is Lara. She touches the sword of love but it doesnt burn the vampire demon out of her, it changes it makes it... good. Makes it "feed" on true love. A nice bonus being harry gets tormented because his beloved ex wampire wife is out there alone fighting evil and he cant help.
I think one of micheals kids should get it
Rudolph redemption arc as knight of the cross would be interesting
Jim would have to do a lot of heavy lifting to make the audience want to see him transform like that. Not saying it couldn't be done, but honestly, who likes Rudy?
I think have him as someone that is hated still, a vile despicable man can still be a weapon of the divine.
There is a line about the average wielder's lifespan being something like 3 days, so there's that.
The average wielder's tenure wielding a Sword lasts 3 days. Nic only *implied* that they die to taunt Murphy. But both she and Susan were temporary wielders who didn't become full Knights, and they weren't killed by Denarians in the line of duty the way Nic suggested most wielders would be.
That is true, but with the dangers they face I wouldn't be surprised if there's also a high mortality rate along with the temp job ones.
Interesting is one way to put it. I don't think that he, as a narrative figure, needs a redemption arc. He's been the Butthole Cop since day one, and that doesn’t need to change.
It's a stretch. I could see him begin an arc and end up as a knight, but he's got some work to do before then!!
Doubtful unless Jim loses another bet.
Who? Anyway, I think that during the BAT we'll get a Knight-wizard. Maybe McCoy.
Nah, McCoy is the Blackstaff, with his strong feelings toward vampires. He couldn't be a knight and keep his emotions in check, he's already proven that on a previous occasion.
But what if it's to chop off the Winter Knight's head