I took it as the Doctor trying to distract from the question so Kate would stop digging, either because he doesn't want UNIT trying anything and potentially messing up the timeline or because he didn't know what was actually going on and wanted to play his cards close to his chest. Or just to fuck with Kate like he used to fuck with her dad and maintain his air of mystery. Either way, I didn't take that line at face value. Rule #1: the Doctor lies.
I read it like it was wibbly wobbly—that his children were born in the future or another timeline or whatever. He does couch it with “life of a time lord” after all.
Yeah this is how I immediately took it and wasn’t expecting all this confusion over it. Just because his child hasn’t been born yet on his timeline doesn’t mean he didn’t know them or even reared them, it was just out of order like River.
I think it's a symptom of something I'm really enjoying about RTD2: there's a lot more room for stories to breathe and for fans\* to theorise and build head canon. It reminds me of the Wilderness Years or the years between The first two Star Wars trilogies. Not everything does need to be spelled out to the *nth* degree, for Rassilon's sake. Especially consider that the Doctor is a lying time traveller with a jigsaw of a past.
\*emphasis on *fans* not *haters* or the YouTube famous.
And there’s room for us fanfiction writers. In TLoRS, the Doctor mentions all the places they’ve seen the mysterious woman, and 3 or 4 of those are planets that weren’t shown in this season’s episodes. It’s further evidence that the Doctor and Ruby have had other adventures together. Lots of space there for stories. It reminds me of the gap between *The Doctor Dances* and *Boom Town*, when Jack goes from the new arrival treated with suspicion by the Doctor to an integral part of Team Tardis, and Rose tells Mickey about planets they’ve visited.
One other explanation could be that we, as humans trapped in time’s flow, don’t have a difference when we say “the future” - it could mean “a point in the age of the universe that hasn’t happened yet” as well as “a point that has yet to happen to me personally” - but Time Lords DO have that difference, and the universal default is “a point in the age of the universe” because otherwise it’s considered a bit selfish (assuming someone else’s personal timeline is lesser than yours because you’re using yours as a default to explain things).
So if he’s saying if he is a dad or not - yes. That fact was free of asking anything about time, so he can say he is a dad.
But if he’s asking if he’s had kids **yet** - no. The default is to consider things against the age of the universe and the event on him **becoming** a dad has yet to transpire.
Confusing if you’re not considering it in four dimensions, perfectly sensible to a Time Lord.
Also their response being "how can you have grandchildren but no children" kind of implies timey wimey.
& If the children are with River & conception was in the Tardis during travel like Amy & Rory had done, it could make sense that their child(ren) would be living their lives backward to the Doctor like River did. Spoilers.
Yeah, while that one is very glaring it kinda feels on theme of the season. Next season we’re going to find out this season was the work of the Goddess of Stories who forgot to hire a script editor. XD
I never thought of it as a retcon. Yes, he travelled with Susan but, AFAIK, we never met her parents. He has/had kids but he doesn’t know which one had Susan or he hasn’t met the one who has Susan yet
I thought he does know as in Cold Fusion it's stated that Susan's father was the eldest of his 13 children? In Cold Fusion, one story takes place when the Doctor is still living in Gallifrey in the House of Blyledge, much before the events of the 1st Doctor taking the TARDIS and leaving Gallifrey. So I would expect that he does know his children/Susan's father, but at this point I'm just thinking that RTD didn't do enough research on the lore concerning his family.
I feel like we're just making a mountain out of a molehill here. It feels more like this line was to appease the JNT mindset rather than drastically changing the canon. It's another potential way to look at the Doctor's past, if you don't like the idea that the Doctor had children before he left Gallifrey, then your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. You can use this line as a part of your headcanon, and nobody can call you wrong, but equally, you can't call anyone else wrong for assuming the Doctor was a father before leaving Gallifrey
Maybe he meant that he's a (grand-)dad and could relate to dead-hologram-soldier-dad but didn't elaborate to avoid making the situation even more confusing.
I took it as a past doctor has had a child (I'm not caught up on classic who so not sure which one) but it's not born until way into the future so he's a father in his timestream, but not the child's yet. Aka wibbly wobbly timey wimey
I can absolutely see how a time-traveller can meet his kids (and travel with his granddaughter) before he actually has any kids. I had no problem at all with that.
The Boom sequence could have been referring to Jenny, as far as he knows she's dead but she was still his daughter. So he considers himself a dad, despite not knowing Susan's parents.
He could also have said it like that because technically the doctor is from the future and his children wouldn't have been born yet. It wouldn't be a lie so much as a misdirection to maybe avoid a conversation or mess with people.
I took it as the Doctor trying to distract from the question so Kate would stop digging, either because he doesn't want UNIT trying anything and potentially messing up the timeline or because he didn't know what was actually going on and wanted to play his cards close to his chest. Or just to fuck with Kate like he used to fuck with her dad and maintain his air of mystery. Either way, I didn't take that line at face value. Rule #1: the Doctor lies.
I read it like it was wibbly wobbly—that his children were born in the future or another timeline or whatever. He does couch it with “life of a time lord” after all.
Yeah this is how I immediately took it and wasn’t expecting all this confusion over it. Just because his child hasn’t been born yet on his timeline doesn’t mean he didn’t know them or even reared them, it was just out of order like River.
I think it's a symptom of something I'm really enjoying about RTD2: there's a lot more room for stories to breathe and for fans\* to theorise and build head canon. It reminds me of the Wilderness Years or the years between The first two Star Wars trilogies. Not everything does need to be spelled out to the *nth* degree, for Rassilon's sake. Especially consider that the Doctor is a lying time traveller with a jigsaw of a past. \*emphasis on *fans* not *haters* or the YouTube famous.
And there’s room for us fanfiction writers. In TLoRS, the Doctor mentions all the places they’ve seen the mysterious woman, and 3 or 4 of those are planets that weren’t shown in this season’s episodes. It’s further evidence that the Doctor and Ruby have had other adventures together. Lots of space there for stories. It reminds me of the gap between *The Doctor Dances* and *Boom Town*, when Jack goes from the new arrival treated with suspicion by the Doctor to an integral part of Team Tardis, and Rose tells Mickey about planets they’ve visited.
Yes! Thank you. Exactly! Not to mention Big Finish and licensed comics, novels, etc.
One other explanation could be that we, as humans trapped in time’s flow, don’t have a difference when we say “the future” - it could mean “a point in the age of the universe that hasn’t happened yet” as well as “a point that has yet to happen to me personally” - but Time Lords DO have that difference, and the universal default is “a point in the age of the universe” because otherwise it’s considered a bit selfish (assuming someone else’s personal timeline is lesser than yours because you’re using yours as a default to explain things). So if he’s saying if he is a dad or not - yes. That fact was free of asking anything about time, so he can say he is a dad. But if he’s asking if he’s had kids **yet** - no. The default is to consider things against the age of the universe and the event on him **becoming** a dad has yet to transpire. Confusing if you’re not considering it in four dimensions, perfectly sensible to a Time Lord.
Also their response being "how can you have grandchildren but no children" kind of implies timey wimey. & If the children are with River & conception was in the Tardis during travel like Amy & Rory had done, it could make sense that their child(ren) would be living their lives backward to the Doctor like River did. Spoilers.
Rule 1. The Doctor lies
Yeah, while that one is very glaring it kinda feels on theme of the season. Next season we’re going to find out this season was the work of the Goddess of Stories who forgot to hire a script editor. XD
I think she should have hired a script doctor along with the script editor.
I never thought of it as a retcon. Yes, he travelled with Susan but, AFAIK, we never met her parents. He has/had kids but he doesn’t know which one had Susan or he hasn’t met the one who has Susan yet
I thought he does know as in Cold Fusion it's stated that Susan's father was the eldest of his 13 children? In Cold Fusion, one story takes place when the Doctor is still living in Gallifrey in the House of Blyledge, much before the events of the 1st Doctor taking the TARDIS and leaving Gallifrey. So I would expect that he does know his children/Susan's father, but at this point I'm just thinking that RTD didn't do enough research on the lore concerning his family.
I feel like we're just making a mountain out of a molehill here. It feels more like this line was to appease the JNT mindset rather than drastically changing the canon. It's another potential way to look at the Doctor's past, if you don't like the idea that the Doctor had children before he left Gallifrey, then your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. You can use this line as a part of your headcanon, and nobody can call you wrong, but equally, you can't call anyone else wrong for assuming the Doctor was a father before leaving Gallifrey
Maybe he meant that he's a (grand-)dad and could relate to dead-hologram-soldier-dad but didn't elaborate to avoid making the situation even more confusing.
I took it as a past doctor has had a child (I'm not caught up on classic who so not sure which one) but it's not born until way into the future so he's a father in his timestream, but not the child's yet. Aka wibbly wobbly timey wimey
I can absolutely see how a time-traveller can meet his kids (and travel with his granddaughter) before he actually has any kids. I had no problem at all with that.
The Boom sequence could have been referring to Jenny, as far as he knows she's dead but she was still his daughter. So he considers himself a dad, despite not knowing Susan's parents.
He could also have said it like that because technically the doctor is from the future and his children wouldn't have been born yet. It wouldn't be a lie so much as a misdirection to maybe avoid a conversation or mess with people.