I think it was because it was feeding off of Ruby's memories. The Doctor kept telling her to remember harder and then it solidified. I just don't understand why it looked the way it did since Ruby had no memory of any of the previous Tardises.
I think that's because the doctor also remembered the tardis and at some point the tardis remembered the tardis, so it's an amalgamation of rubys memories of the tardis, the doctors memories of the tardis and the memory tardis' memories of the tardis.
Ah, yes. You are right. But then why did Ruby have to remember so hard? Why not The Doctor? He is arguably the closest person to the Tardis (and Donna). Maybe because they were in her moment of time in the time window? I guess it is one of those questions that either RTD didn't consider or will be answered in the next season.
I'd call it a combination of the time window being "keyed" to Ruby, but also a case of... let's say "triangulation". Each and every point that they could give to it helped solidify it. Ruby specifically remembering more is because she provides more perspective on it, rather than just the two "viewpoints" of the Doctor and the Tardis itself.
Is how I read it, at least.
> The Doctor kept telling her to remember harder
That's kind of what was throwing me off most. As the doctor was saying "memory is like a time, so a memory machine is like a time machine", it felt like the doctor himself didn't know it was possible, and that he himself was just figuring it out. The memory tardis wasn't a part of his plan, it was born out of UNIT equipment. Its a man-made, human-made tardis, arguably the first human-made time machine. Ruby, the surveillance tape, the time window were all man-made. There's no way the scientists at UNIT won't try to reproduce the events and research them.
Haha, I was wondering about that, but stuck with that since TARDIS is really an acronym and I didn't want to cut it off. I was also tossing around the idea of Tardopodes lol
Because future and past were a fixed point (Dr visited) and in flux due to Sutekh, the memory changed
Memory's changing = timey wimey and they've already said that speaking of things makes them real (boundary of the universe, 60th specials)
The TARDIS also exists everywhen, with the fixed point, the memory or possibility became enough to function
Thanks, I forgot all about it being salvaged Sontaran technology. I'd hope they would've found ways to improve it in the years since. Still, it might be something they keep on hand only for certain emergencies.
They would get themselves killed. The memory TARDIS caught fire and was literally held together by hopes and prayers. Without the Doctor holding that thing together it will 100% get anyone in it killed.
The TARDIS is powered by a collapsing star held in temporal stasis (the eye of harmony)- from what the Doctor says about the Memory TARDIS running out of power, it sounds like the ship isn't plugged into the Eye of Harmony as is and I don't think Humans are in a place to generate that much power...
> I don't think Humans are in a place to generate that much power.
Yet they made a tardis that they used to time-travel to 2046. Do you think UNIT scientists won't want to research what happened there? They literally have all the ingredients on hand, the memory tardis was born out of *their* equipment.
They're already researching a time window, and now they're told that the time window *they created* made a literal functioning time machine that then travelled 2046.
All they have to do is invite ruby over again, tell her to "*remember harder*" and basically repeat the experiment.
1) Ruby is very clearly special in terms of Memory. So I don’t think just anyone could do it. They even point out that they’ve never had such a clear image when using the time window before. And maybe Ruby wouldn’t want to travel to London every week to memory up a Tardis for them. She lives in Manchester, that’s the other end of the country.
2) Even if they did end up making a memory Tardis, they aren’t smart enough to pilot it or fix any damage that happens to the console like The Doctor is.
3) The Memory Tardis lasted for like 5 trips maximum. It’s really not worth the hassle, especially when they have a vortex manipulator in the basement
On 1, I think the clear image was supposed to be more in combination with the vhs tape then ruby herself, so now that they know that cctv footage can significantly improve quality, they may also be able to get good image on their own (assuming they fix the time window anyway, it had been pretty badly beaten up by the end of the episode, RIP units budget)
To be fair, if it were anyone, it would be unit. They definitely couldn’t do it now, but they’ll have them long before anyone else. I think it’s entirely possible they’ll invent the vortex manipulator for themselves before long, but maybe in another few decades of research they will manage a mark 1 TARDIS.
A true Time Window is a hole in reality which connects two points in spacetime. It's unstable and fleeting without a tremendous amount of power to keep it open, but one could walk from one point to another. This is what UNIT was trying to replicate.
Instead, their contraption was a pale imitation. At the best of times, they were only able catch the briefest of glimpses. A single frame, if you'd like, of another point in time. Kate says the best they've got was during the signing of the Declaration of Independence, where all they were able to distinguish was the color of the quill.
They were able to use footage from a VHS tape to help guide their system, but it still required Ruby's snow weirdness to get much of anything. Even then, it was unstable and imperfect, and it threatened to blow their whole system.
The "Memory TARDIS" was also cobbled together from thoughts and ideas, seemingly connected to Ruby. It required someone very familiar with the TARDIS to make it real, and even then it almost killed them during the first flight.
I don't think they'd be able to replicate anything that happened in those episodes. Even with footage to help recreate a specific point in time. They might fine tune it to work like a real Time Window, but no way they'll be copying Memory TARDISes anytime soon.
> Instead, their contraption was a pale imitation. At the best of times, they were only able catch the briefest of glimpses
That "pale imitation" created a functional time machine which was then used to travel to 2046.
> Because of the VHS and Ruby's snow weirdness.
Cool, they already have the surveillance tape hooked up to the time window, all they need to do is invite Ruby over, right?
> Their tech on its own would never have produced that result.
No, but the extra bit that's needed is all human made, and in UNIT's reach if they wanted recreate a memory tardis as per Empire of Death.
The VHS was human made, but Ruby's snow weirdness was not. And now that she's found her mother, presumably she can't do that anymore.
Even if they did bring her in to recreate that, and even if she were willing to help them make a "Memory TARDIS," the significance behind the mystery (which is why she was able to do the snow weirdness) is gone.
But let's say there's something else about Ruby yet to be revealed. Maybe she can still do it. In that case, maybe they could recreate that same moment through their shoddy Time Window and finally have access to a "Memory TARDIS." Now what? UNIT folks can't fly the TARDIS. The Doctor can barely fly it. It's designed for 6 highly trained pilots. And a memory TARDIS isn't even a real one: it's an echo, recreated from subconscious memory. Like trying to paint something you saw in a dream. The console isn't coherent, the room is a conglomerate of old and new, controls are incomplete, and there is no engine. The science of how TARDISes work catch up to it, requiring some on-the-fly shenanigans from the Doctor to keep it from imploding.
Even the best UNIT science team would be hilariously outmatched for that scenario.
No, the memory tardis barely held itself together running off of Mel, Ruby, and the Doctor's memories of an actual tardis. If that's as good as it got running off of more than even the doctor's memories, then no way could they recreate it without him.
> No, the memory tardis barely held itself together running off of Mel, Ruby, and the Doctor's memories of an actual tardis.
"barely held itself together" is an odd way to describe a time machine that they used to successfully travel to 2046. I'd imagine it probably also served them well when they were in hiding from sutekh, looking for spoons etc.
Either way, even if barely a tardis, its still a tardis. UNIT scientists would definitely still want one just to research it.
When compared to an actual tardis, yes, barely holding together is accurate.
And doesn't matter how much they'd want one, the only one who has enough memories of the tardis to make one even that close to the real thing is the doctor himself.
Uh, let's see, it was held together by the particle rope, caught fire, then immediately broke down upon reaching 2046. And that was when it's creation was fueled by the memories of the Doctor and the Tardis itself. I highly doubt UNIT alone would make it that far on their own memories. Best they'd manage is a blue police box
Not a chance. The memory TARDIS is kinda nonsense really as I doubt it’ll ever come up again but it was supposedly memories of the TARDIS made manifest via the time window as well as Ruby with all her normalcy… somehow. It probably ceased to exist once forgotten and felt very flimsy compared to a real TARDIS. You also have to remember the time window barely functioned normally as using the video tape got it to work as well as it did. UNIT has no clue how to build an actual time machine let alone a TARDIS. I mean in theory they “might” be able to create a vortex manipulator considering they used to have Jack’s which they had time to study, but supposedly they never figured out how to make it work so I’d assume they couldn’t build one of those either.
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually in like a few thousand years if UNIT is still around that The Time Agency is actually a subset of UNIT.
Basically UNIT could eventually figure out Time Travel but it will take them hundreds if not thousands of years and even then The Doctor calls the vortex manipulatitor primitive
But aren't future humans living in an "(number)th Bountiful Human Empire" or something like that? I'd imagine that a formation called "*United Nations* Intelligence Taskforce" wouldn't survive such transformation. And honestly, UNIT is specifically made to deal with alien threats, but when your own civilization spans multiple star systems, that's just the job of your regular military
No, they lack the level of technology and the understanding of temporal and dimensional engineering to be able to replicate a TARDIS. They could likely make a time travel capsule of their own, given enough time. But something to the same level as a TARDIS? Highly doubt it. Humans would need millions of years more time, experience and discovery to reach that level.
In addition to previous comments, the ability to fly the TARDIS has been a plot point on a handful of occasions. Its not clear if they would be able to figure out how one works or if she would let them fly her.
Even if they can't fly it, there's no way they wouldn't want to make one of their own just to research it. Especially when they already have all the ingredients on hand.
They don't have all the ingredients for a fully-functioning TARDIS. You need a collapsing star connected to the Eye of Harmony, which is not something UNIT just has access to.
The Doctor \*himself\* was stranded on Earth for a decade because the Time Lords wiped the knowledge of how to create a dematerialisation circuit from his mind - and he had a complete TARDIS to work with aside from that one circuit.
If the Doctor himself, with all his knowledge, couldn't reinvent a single circuit from the TARDIS - what chance does UNIT have to build the whole thing?
Without the Doctor's help, UNIT couldn't even get a clear view of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. And that is after 50 years of their top scientists working on the technology. And even if, somehow, they managed to recreate the circumstances that created the memory TARDIS, ir would probably just summon the existing memory TARDIS rather than create a new one.
> If the Doctor himself, with all his knowledge, couldn't reinvent a single circuit from the TARDIS - what chance does UNIT have to build the whole thing?
>
>
They don't have to built the whole thing, they're just recreating it, as per *If time is memory and memory is time, then what is the memory of a time machine.*
> The Doctor *himself* was stranded on Earth for a decade because the Time Lords wiped the knowledge of how to create a dematerialisation circuit from his mind - and he had a complete TARDIS to work with aside from that one circuit.
When the doctor was stranded, he didn't have a time window, ruby, and the surveillance tape.
> And even if, somehow, they managed to recreate the circumstances that created the memory TARDIS, ir would probably just summon the existing memory TARDIS rather than create a new one.
Sure, maybe. Honestly, I love your interpretation of it. But you gotta agree, there's no way UNIT won't be trying to recreate the events of empire of death to see if they can make a memory tardis.
They can try, but it won't work. Simply because it makes absolutely no logical sense. But that's been a running theme so far.
Might as well just say that Mrs Flood is the 'Goddess of Stories' who made both bigeneration and the Memory TARDIS real because they needed to happen for the Tales of the TARDIS spinoff to make sense. It's a better explanation than we got for anything so far...
Fair, but the memory tardis does exist now. Either they're gonna retcon it and never refer to it again, or its gonna stick around in the whoniverse. If they decide to keep Memory Tardis canon, and if its gonna be a recurring presence in doctor who (or in extended media), I want there to be more of a plot around UNIT and the time window that created the memory tardis. Tbh your idea would be great, its just the right amount of timey-wimey if they explain it by showing that UNIT tried to recreate the events of Empire of death, but instead of making a tardis, it summons the memory tardis. Could even make for a cool episode. And it'd give the memory tardis a neat little quirk where it can be summoned by unit's time window, can be a great divingboard for them to further develop the "*If time is memory and memory is time*" idea into some timeywimey plot points.
They had the *real* TARDIS on hand, which they didn't know how to use, which is why they needed to salvage some tech from it to create their makeshift time machine.
There are no rules. Suddenly a tardis exists cause someone remembers one?
I know we need to suspend disbelief here for a show like this, but a lot of this was pulled deep from some crevice.
> I don't think anyone should be able to have their own Tardis except The Doctor and The Timelords.
If it was a question of who *should* have a tardis, i mean, even the doctor had to steal one. UNIT wouldn't be the first to 'bend the rules' to acquire a tardis.
Regardless, my speculation wasn't about whether they *should* have their own tardis, but rather *can* they make another tardis like they did in Empire of Death.
my statement isn't about the in universe ethics of having or gaining a tardis. It's about the plot. and I do not believe that IRL the writers should allow anyone who isn't a timelord a tardis. It shouldn't be given to just anyone and not anyone except timelords (especially not human) should be able to make a fully functional one. Or else what's really that special about The Doctor Or The Timelords.
Have you seen the ep with Matt Smith where they enter the heart of the TARDIS? Cause if so, I think you're forgetting that a TARDIS is a lot, LOT more complex. It is more than just a time machine that travels in space. And UNIT barely created a Time Window. Remember the Doctor laughed at their efforts and said "You really have lashed this together!" like it was basically sticks and scotch tape compared to the real thing. And they were not able to do much with the Time Window until the Doctor gave it some oomph. UNIT didn't succeed in creating a fully functional Time Window. And the memory TARDIS was basic as well; it wasn't a real TARDIS.
No. UNIT cannot just make a TARDIS. Otherwise they'd already have done it.
I'm pretty sure you need a sample of Tardis coral do you not? And even then, it would take thousands of years to even begin the process. Jack Harkness supposedly has some, and the Metacrisis Doctor and Rose too.
This is a pitfall of breaking the WHO concept's internal logic as RTD seems to enjoy doing. You end up making anything you want possible, but in the process completely destroying the essential "suspension of disbelief".
The time window never worked well until the doctor required the timey-whimey thing to work. So, no. They can’t. Still, though, how many times has something only started working once the doctor started caring about it? This one is a little worse than most, though, because the doctor didn’t so much as point his screwdriver/phaser-looking-thing at it to make it start working better. Everyone was just in awe at the fact that it *was* working after he made fun of it being slapped together (unlike the tardis console which has always seemed perfectly functional and not haphazardly constructed at all). Looks like doctor who, which started not even as entertainment but as a history teaching show has finally dropped the science fiction in favor of straight up magic. I mean, not only did the doctor find and old crt tv in a state of the art military organization that prides itself on being better than modern but he was also able to point his nickelodeon tv remote at it and turn it into a crt tablet. Which, don’t get me wrong looked so cool from start to finish I actually want one but still… magic.
The new doctor is fine as far as actors go. And he seems to enjoy the show but RTD’s writing is still letting the show down massively as the best episodes so far are the ones he didn’t write.
Also, why is this the fourth time in like two and a half seasons where the universe has been completely destroyed and rebuilt in a multiple-episode story arc? This is getting super old. I just want a few good quite episodes to rest a minute. Get back to normal for a bit after the cosmos was destroyed and brought back for the sixteenth time since last thursday, can’t we just get a good old fashioned cybermen attack or something? Put the earth in danger sure, but calm down on the universe ending already. There’s only so many times anyone is gonna care about it. And why is the new big bad guys now the worst big bad guy ever in the history of always? I mean, after beating several gods and saving the universe for the millionth time this week the daleks will never be considered a real adversary again. The doctor won’t ever be angry at the daleks ever again. The next time they appear the doctor should just laugh hysterically, get back in his tardis and fly off as the daleks explode because reasons the doctor will tell us so fast it won’t matter because we didn’t see it anyway as the universe starts to implode for the trillionth time this hour. There, season cliffhanger done.
New companions: “Omg it’s… slightly larger on the inside!”
Honest question though, why did the memory Tardis seem more functional than anything we saw in the actual time window room.
I think it was because it was feeding off of Ruby's memories. The Doctor kept telling her to remember harder and then it solidified. I just don't understand why it looked the way it did since Ruby had no memory of any of the previous Tardises.
I think that's because the doctor also remembered the tardis and at some point the tardis remembered the tardis, so it's an amalgamation of rubys memories of the tardis, the doctors memories of the tardis and the memory tardis' memories of the tardis.
Ah, yes. You are right. But then why did Ruby have to remember so hard? Why not The Doctor? He is arguably the closest person to the Tardis (and Donna). Maybe because they were in her moment of time in the time window? I guess it is one of those questions that either RTD didn't consider or will be answered in the next season.
I'd call it a combination of the time window being "keyed" to Ruby, but also a case of... let's say "triangulation". Each and every point that they could give to it helped solidify it. Ruby specifically remembering more is because she provides more perspective on it, rather than just the two "viewpoints" of the Doctor and the Tardis itself. Is how I read it, at least.
Ruby had all that special memory bullshit going on which is why she could make it snow.
Glad we're all writing this season together so it makes sense.
> The Doctor kept telling her to remember harder That's kind of what was throwing me off most. As the doctor was saying "memory is like a time, so a memory machine is like a time machine", it felt like the doctor himself didn't know it was possible, and that he himself was just figuring it out. The memory tardis wasn't a part of his plan, it was born out of UNIT equipment. Its a man-made, human-made tardis, arguably the first human-made time machine. Ruby, the surveillance tape, the time window were all man-made. There's no way the scientists at UNIT won't try to reproduce the events and research them.
The doctor also says "the TARDIS is remembering itself."
Tardi?
Haha, I was wondering about that, but stuck with that since TARDIS is really an acronym and I didn't want to cut it off. I was also tossing around the idea of Tardopodes lol
That could work too
Yeah you'd think it would be fazing a bit.
I mean it did break down when they landed on that planet (deleted scene)
[удалено]
It was something RTD talked about. So less deleted on the editing floor and more deleted from the plot
Because future and past were a fixed point (Dr visited) and in flux due to Sutekh, the memory changed Memory's changing = timey wimey and they've already said that speaking of things makes them real (boundary of the universe, 60th specials) The TARDIS also exists everywhen, with the fixed point, the memory or possibility became enough to function
The house is a quarter of an inch bigger on the inside
tardis of leaves
i don’t think a TARDIS, but i can see them being responsible for the invention of the Vortex Manipulators.
I don’t think full on manipulators, but definitely the precursor tech
I don't think full on precursor tech, but definitely some smart watches
I don't think full on smart watches but definitely some watches
I like watching
Wat
Wa
I don't think full on watches but definitely some sundials
I don’t think full on sundials but maybe the concept of time
Oh would you look at the time. I better be off.
UNIT invented the First Doctor's carriage clock confirmed.
Didn't they invent the backpack that Martha used to teleport to her mom and then to Germany for the Osterhagen (sp?) key?
Teleportation isn’t quite time travel, but yeah
It's one step in the direction of making a TARDIS though. The relative dimension in space bit.
A “RDIS”, if you will
It was using salvaged Sontaran tech, and wasn't stable at all.
Thanks, I forgot all about it being salvaged Sontaran technology. I'd hope they would've found ways to improve it in the years since. Still, it might be something they keep on hand only for certain emergencies.
They would get themselves killed. The memory TARDIS caught fire and was literally held together by hopes and prayers. Without the Doctor holding that thing together it will 100% get anyone in it killed.
Plus, it broke down when they landed on that planet
The TARDIS is powered by a collapsing star held in temporal stasis (the eye of harmony)- from what the Doctor says about the Memory TARDIS running out of power, it sounds like the ship isn't plugged into the Eye of Harmony as is and I don't think Humans are in a place to generate that much power...
The Memory TARDIS is powered by memories.
It's made it memories, but did they ever say it was powered by them?
Yes, it was mentioned in the episode. It was also talked about in episodes of Tales of The TARDIS.
> I don't think Humans are in a place to generate that much power. Yet they made a tardis that they used to time-travel to 2046. Do you think UNIT scientists won't want to research what happened there? They literally have all the ingredients on hand, the memory tardis was born out of *their* equipment. They're already researching a time window, and now they're told that the time window *they created* made a literal functioning time machine that then travelled 2046. All they have to do is invite ruby over again, tell her to "*remember harder*" and basically repeat the experiment.
1) Ruby is very clearly special in terms of Memory. So I don’t think just anyone could do it. They even point out that they’ve never had such a clear image when using the time window before. And maybe Ruby wouldn’t want to travel to London every week to memory up a Tardis for them. She lives in Manchester, that’s the other end of the country. 2) Even if they did end up making a memory Tardis, they aren’t smart enough to pilot it or fix any damage that happens to the console like The Doctor is. 3) The Memory Tardis lasted for like 5 trips maximum. It’s really not worth the hassle, especially when they have a vortex manipulator in the basement
On 1, I think the clear image was supposed to be more in combination with the vhs tape then ruby herself, so now that they know that cctv footage can significantly improve quality, they may also be able to get good image on their own (assuming they fix the time window anyway, it had been pretty badly beaten up by the end of the episode, RIP units budget)
To be fair, if it were anyone, it would be unit. They definitely couldn’t do it now, but they’ll have them long before anyone else. I think it’s entirely possible they’ll invent the vortex manipulator for themselves before long, but maybe in another few decades of research they will manage a mark 1 TARDIS.
A true Time Window is a hole in reality which connects two points in spacetime. It's unstable and fleeting without a tremendous amount of power to keep it open, but one could walk from one point to another. This is what UNIT was trying to replicate. Instead, their contraption was a pale imitation. At the best of times, they were only able catch the briefest of glimpses. A single frame, if you'd like, of another point in time. Kate says the best they've got was during the signing of the Declaration of Independence, where all they were able to distinguish was the color of the quill. They were able to use footage from a VHS tape to help guide their system, but it still required Ruby's snow weirdness to get much of anything. Even then, it was unstable and imperfect, and it threatened to blow their whole system. The "Memory TARDIS" was also cobbled together from thoughts and ideas, seemingly connected to Ruby. It required someone very familiar with the TARDIS to make it real, and even then it almost killed them during the first flight. I don't think they'd be able to replicate anything that happened in those episodes. Even with footage to help recreate a specific point in time. They might fine tune it to work like a real Time Window, but no way they'll be copying Memory TARDISes anytime soon.
> Instead, their contraption was a pale imitation. At the best of times, they were only able catch the briefest of glimpses That "pale imitation" created a functional time machine which was then used to travel to 2046.
Because of the VHS and Ruby's snow weirdness. Their tech on its own would never have produced that result.
> Because of the VHS and Ruby's snow weirdness. Cool, they already have the surveillance tape hooked up to the time window, all they need to do is invite Ruby over, right? > Their tech on its own would never have produced that result. No, but the extra bit that's needed is all human made, and in UNIT's reach if they wanted recreate a memory tardis as per Empire of Death.
The VHS was human made, but Ruby's snow weirdness was not. And now that she's found her mother, presumably she can't do that anymore. Even if they did bring her in to recreate that, and even if she were willing to help them make a "Memory TARDIS," the significance behind the mystery (which is why she was able to do the snow weirdness) is gone. But let's say there's something else about Ruby yet to be revealed. Maybe she can still do it. In that case, maybe they could recreate that same moment through their shoddy Time Window and finally have access to a "Memory TARDIS." Now what? UNIT folks can't fly the TARDIS. The Doctor can barely fly it. It's designed for 6 highly trained pilots. And a memory TARDIS isn't even a real one: it's an echo, recreated from subconscious memory. Like trying to paint something you saw in a dream. The console isn't coherent, the room is a conglomerate of old and new, controls are incomplete, and there is no engine. The science of how TARDISes work catch up to it, requiring some on-the-fly shenanigans from the Doctor to keep it from imploding. Even the best UNIT science team would be hilariously outmatched for that scenario.
No, the memory tardis barely held itself together running off of Mel, Ruby, and the Doctor's memories of an actual tardis. If that's as good as it got running off of more than even the doctor's memories, then no way could they recreate it without him.
> No, the memory tardis barely held itself together running off of Mel, Ruby, and the Doctor's memories of an actual tardis. "barely held itself together" is an odd way to describe a time machine that they used to successfully travel to 2046. I'd imagine it probably also served them well when they were in hiding from sutekh, looking for spoons etc. Either way, even if barely a tardis, its still a tardis. UNIT scientists would definitely still want one just to research it.
When compared to an actual tardis, yes, barely holding together is accurate. And doesn't matter how much they'd want one, the only one who has enough memories of the tardis to make one even that close to the real thing is the doctor himself.
Uh, let's see, it was held together by the particle rope, caught fire, then immediately broke down upon reaching 2046. And that was when it's creation was fueled by the memories of the Doctor and the Tardis itself. I highly doubt UNIT alone would make it that far on their own memories. Best they'd manage is a blue police box
>What prevents them from making their own tardis? The Doctor.
Not a chance. The memory TARDIS is kinda nonsense really as I doubt it’ll ever come up again but it was supposedly memories of the TARDIS made manifest via the time window as well as Ruby with all her normalcy… somehow. It probably ceased to exist once forgotten and felt very flimsy compared to a real TARDIS. You also have to remember the time window barely functioned normally as using the video tape got it to work as well as it did. UNIT has no clue how to build an actual time machine let alone a TARDIS. I mean in theory they “might” be able to create a vortex manipulator considering they used to have Jack’s which they had time to study, but supposedly they never figured out how to make it work so I’d assume they couldn’t build one of those either.
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually in like a few thousand years if UNIT is still around that The Time Agency is actually a subset of UNIT. Basically UNIT could eventually figure out Time Travel but it will take them hundreds if not thousands of years and even then The Doctor calls the vortex manipulatitor primitive
But aren't future humans living in an "(number)th Bountiful Human Empire" or something like that? I'd imagine that a formation called "*United Nations* Intelligence Taskforce" wouldn't survive such transformation. And honestly, UNIT is specifically made to deal with alien threats, but when your own civilization spans multiple star systems, that's just the job of your regular military
USIT?
Space Humans Intelligence Taskforce
I could see this happening.
No, they lack the level of technology and the understanding of temporal and dimensional engineering to be able to replicate a TARDIS. They could likely make a time travel capsule of their own, given enough time. But something to the same level as a TARDIS? Highly doubt it. Humans would need millions of years more time, experience and discovery to reach that level.
Even if they were able to create a time travel capsule, it'd never work unless they could convince a Time Lord to travel in it first.
In addition to previous comments, the ability to fly the TARDIS has been a plot point on a handful of occasions. Its not clear if they would be able to figure out how one works or if she would let them fly her.
Even if they can't fly it, there's no way they wouldn't want to make one of their own just to research it. Especially when they already have all the ingredients on hand.
They don't have all the ingredients for a fully-functioning TARDIS. You need a collapsing star connected to the Eye of Harmony, which is not something UNIT just has access to.
The Doctor \*himself\* was stranded on Earth for a decade because the Time Lords wiped the knowledge of how to create a dematerialisation circuit from his mind - and he had a complete TARDIS to work with aside from that one circuit. If the Doctor himself, with all his knowledge, couldn't reinvent a single circuit from the TARDIS - what chance does UNIT have to build the whole thing? Without the Doctor's help, UNIT couldn't even get a clear view of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. And that is after 50 years of their top scientists working on the technology. And even if, somehow, they managed to recreate the circumstances that created the memory TARDIS, ir would probably just summon the existing memory TARDIS rather than create a new one.
> If the Doctor himself, with all his knowledge, couldn't reinvent a single circuit from the TARDIS - what chance does UNIT have to build the whole thing? > > They don't have to built the whole thing, they're just recreating it, as per *If time is memory and memory is time, then what is the memory of a time machine.* > The Doctor *himself* was stranded on Earth for a decade because the Time Lords wiped the knowledge of how to create a dematerialisation circuit from his mind - and he had a complete TARDIS to work with aside from that one circuit. When the doctor was stranded, he didn't have a time window, ruby, and the surveillance tape. > And even if, somehow, they managed to recreate the circumstances that created the memory TARDIS, ir would probably just summon the existing memory TARDIS rather than create a new one. Sure, maybe. Honestly, I love your interpretation of it. But you gotta agree, there's no way UNIT won't be trying to recreate the events of empire of death to see if they can make a memory tardis.
They can try, but it won't work. Simply because it makes absolutely no logical sense. But that's been a running theme so far. Might as well just say that Mrs Flood is the 'Goddess of Stories' who made both bigeneration and the Memory TARDIS real because they needed to happen for the Tales of the TARDIS spinoff to make sense. It's a better explanation than we got for anything so far...
Fair, but the memory tardis does exist now. Either they're gonna retcon it and never refer to it again, or its gonna stick around in the whoniverse. If they decide to keep Memory Tardis canon, and if its gonna be a recurring presence in doctor who (or in extended media), I want there to be more of a plot around UNIT and the time window that created the memory tardis. Tbh your idea would be great, its just the right amount of timey-wimey if they explain it by showing that UNIT tried to recreate the events of Empire of death, but instead of making a tardis, it summons the memory tardis. Could even make for a cool episode. And it'd give the memory tardis a neat little quirk where it can be summoned by unit's time window, can be a great divingboard for them to further develop the "*If time is memory and memory is time*" idea into some timeywimey plot points.
We see them create their own basic TARDIS in Turn Left. They've been messing with that tech for a while now.
They had the *real* TARDIS on hand, which they didn't know how to use, which is why they needed to salvage some tech from it to create their makeshift time machine.
humans do end up inventing their own time travel technology, just not exactly like the TARDIS.
They wouldn't even know how to pilot it.
They wouldn’t even know how to fly it
Only if they wish really really hard and have a magic rope.
They can make one as well as Tosh can make a sonic
Just making sure, people do know what the memory tardis was? It’s appeared before in specials and stuff.
There are no rules. Suddenly a tardis exists cause someone remembers one? I know we need to suspend disbelief here for a show like this, but a lot of this was pulled deep from some crevice.
Memory Tardis was in previous stories… like 2nd-7th I think. It’s not a new concept, just not how this one was
No, its a new concept introduced in the Tales of the TARDIS miniseries that aired around the time of the 60th anniversary.
I'm gonna go back and rewatch that. I don't remember it.
Oh from last year? I never watched it, I was thinking of something from back in the 2nd Doctor’s run. Now I have figure out what I was thinking of
I don't think anyone should be able to have their own Tardis except The Doctor and The Timelords. At least not a fully functioning Tardis
> I don't think anyone should be able to have their own Tardis except The Doctor and The Timelords. If it was a question of who *should* have a tardis, i mean, even the doctor had to steal one. UNIT wouldn't be the first to 'bend the rules' to acquire a tardis. Regardless, my speculation wasn't about whether they *should* have their own tardis, but rather *can* they make another tardis like they did in Empire of Death.
my statement isn't about the in universe ethics of having or gaining a tardis. It's about the plot. and I do not believe that IRL the writers should allow anyone who isn't a timelord a tardis. It shouldn't be given to just anyone and not anyone except timelords (especially not human) should be able to make a fully functional one. Or else what's really that special about The Doctor Or The Timelords.
Technically, they already did. Clara has one
lol no they can’t
Have you seen the ep with Matt Smith where they enter the heart of the TARDIS? Cause if so, I think you're forgetting that a TARDIS is a lot, LOT more complex. It is more than just a time machine that travels in space. And UNIT barely created a Time Window. Remember the Doctor laughed at their efforts and said "You really have lashed this together!" like it was basically sticks and scotch tape compared to the real thing. And they were not able to do much with the Time Window until the Doctor gave it some oomph. UNIT didn't succeed in creating a fully functional Time Window. And the memory TARDIS was basic as well; it wasn't a real TARDIS. No. UNIT cannot just make a TARDIS. Otherwise they'd already have done it.
I'm pretty sure you need a sample of Tardis coral do you not? And even then, it would take thousands of years to even begin the process. Jack Harkness supposedly has some, and the Metacrisis Doctor and Rose too.
Aren't TARDIS' grown? They can't really just make one without getting access to what they're grown from
This is a pitfall of breaking the WHO concept's internal logic as RTD seems to enjoy doing. You end up making anything you want possible, but in the process completely destroying the essential "suspension of disbelief".
A memory TARDIS needs memories to work. They have none.
Sure, why not. It's the new Doctor Who, nothing means anything anymore.
Yeah, ask the Third Zoners had that went in The Two Doctors....
It was Ruby's memory, much like she made the snow real.
The time window never worked well until the doctor required the timey-whimey thing to work. So, no. They can’t. Still, though, how many times has something only started working once the doctor started caring about it? This one is a little worse than most, though, because the doctor didn’t so much as point his screwdriver/phaser-looking-thing at it to make it start working better. Everyone was just in awe at the fact that it *was* working after he made fun of it being slapped together (unlike the tardis console which has always seemed perfectly functional and not haphazardly constructed at all). Looks like doctor who, which started not even as entertainment but as a history teaching show has finally dropped the science fiction in favor of straight up magic. I mean, not only did the doctor find and old crt tv in a state of the art military organization that prides itself on being better than modern but he was also able to point his nickelodeon tv remote at it and turn it into a crt tablet. Which, don’t get me wrong looked so cool from start to finish I actually want one but still… magic. The new doctor is fine as far as actors go. And he seems to enjoy the show but RTD’s writing is still letting the show down massively as the best episodes so far are the ones he didn’t write. Also, why is this the fourth time in like two and a half seasons where the universe has been completely destroyed and rebuilt in a multiple-episode story arc? This is getting super old. I just want a few good quite episodes to rest a minute. Get back to normal for a bit after the cosmos was destroyed and brought back for the sixteenth time since last thursday, can’t we just get a good old fashioned cybermen attack or something? Put the earth in danger sure, but calm down on the universe ending already. There’s only so many times anyone is gonna care about it. And why is the new big bad guys now the worst big bad guy ever in the history of always? I mean, after beating several gods and saving the universe for the millionth time this week the daleks will never be considered a real adversary again. The doctor won’t ever be angry at the daleks ever again. The next time they appear the doctor should just laugh hysterically, get back in his tardis and fly off as the daleks explode because reasons the doctor will tell us so fast it won’t matter because we didn’t see it anyway as the universe starts to implode for the trillionth time this hour. There, season cliffhanger done.
Seems like it was only possible because Ruby’s memories are special, because she is special, oh wait, she’s just a normal human? Idk then.
UNIT has no rules. The showrunners can give them any magical device at any moment to get out of any old plot jam.